If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

New toy! And the jaws open and close!!! Bad quality picture, but the sculpture and hand-painting are gorgeous. Of course, I will leave the jaws closed until a responsible adult can supervise me to open them. I could lose a finger on those things, you know?

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5623EB65

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=562E41D7

deLurch wrote:

Lsuoma wrote:SCOTUS legalizes gay marriage.
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14 ... 6_3204.pdf

Wow. It appears to be a no holds barred decision. I bet there might be some legal skirmishes in the states, but I can't imagine they will go far.

I wonder what the religious right will do in reaction/opposition to this.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/i ... ot1_65.jpg

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:New toy! And the jaws open and close!!! Bad quality picture, but the sculpture and hand-painting are gorgeous. Of course, I will leave the jaws closed until a responsible adult can supervise me to open them. I could lose a finger on those things, you know?

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5623EB65

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=562E41D7

Next post from Ali:

Apologies from Phil, but he won't be posting for a while. He's at the hospital having hist left arm sown back on, and undergoing an emergency penisoplasty.

Lsuoma wrote:

Parody Accountant wrote:You guys... they released maxi pads for your anus.

Shart pads.
Poopshoot parachutes.
Second chance wipes.
Skid-lock protection.
Santorum Sanitary Napkin.

Starfish stuffers.

For the aussies: Date Dam.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/73b6b924-1c13 ... tml#slide0

Terror attacks left dozens dead on three continents in one of the bloodiest days of jihadi-linked violence in years.

At least 27 — mostly tourists — were gunned down in the Tunisian beach resort of Sousse in the heat of the midday sun; a suicide bomber blew himself up in a Shia mosque in Kuwait City, murdering 25 and maiming more than 200; and a local businessman was decapitated and others injured in an attack on a gas factory near Lyon, in France.

Happy Ramadan, everyone!

Since watching the JJTalkz video referenced in tfoot's video, YouTube has been recommending her channel on my home page. I've since removed it, but I found the thumbnail from the first video oddly familiar:

http://i.imgur.com/avfX2vK.png

It finally hit me:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bFe2Z7HlJPM/maxresdefault.jpg

No wonder she gets so many of these:

http://image-cdn.zap2it.com/images/Game ... -4-Sam.jpg

debaser71 wrote:Add these number 2365 and 7184. In common core to solve it looks like this. 2000 + 700 +300 + 100 +60 + 80 +5 + 4 = . That's fine but not at the expense of making sure the kids know how to do standard math algorithms. Where you can just add up any amount of number with any amount of digits. Where you line up the problem and add columns right to left, carrying the 1, etc. And on the test, the question doesn't just ask, what is 2365 + 7184? It'll ask, "using the blahblah method, explain why Uniqua is wrong when she answers 9449." And no, answering because 2365+7184 does not equal 9449 is a wrong answer. Or saying because reality is such that it is, is not an answer. You NEED to explain gobbly gook. Like an exercise in Bullshitting. And as far as the answer to the math problem? Who cares, just explain.

I am not a mathematician but I did do STEM (before it was called STEM) in college and I have three daughters in the public school system. Where the school fails them I have to pick up the slack. Anyway I'll let others comment if they so desire.

Ahahahaha!

Brings back memories of my being required to show how I arrived at the answer and despite getting the right answer, being failed because I could not show the solution.

The latest iteration of that "defect" was to be informed many years ago by a psychologist that I came across as very arrogant. One example he gave was the results of the math tests they gave us*.

He said that skipping two-five questions where I did not put down the answer, but correctly answering the next three-four in higher difficulty and repeating this pattern over and over could indicate that I considered some questions "beneath" me, especially as I had not given any incorrect answers.

I did not bother to explain but the fact of the matter is this. When it comes to simple math, generally what happens is I "see" the answer and working out afterwards if my answer is correct by formal methods takes up a large chunk of time. Since the test was time based, as in do as many of these as you can within a set time, what I did was to scan the questions and answer only those I saw the answer to immediately.

No I did not bother to explain, experience has shown me that the likelyhood I would be believed is slim to none. So once more I got marked down as an arrogant prick, not that it bothered me, because in many ways I really am an arrogant prick.

* A bunch of us were subjected to 60+ hours of testing to see if we had what it takes to go on to higher management.

German LurksBoatsman wrote:

Kirbmarc wrote:The lifestyle was much more of an issue than the ethnicity. I'm not saying that the Romans were tolerant, far from it. They were, as I wrote, hugely culturally racist: they believed that the Roman culture was superior to all others and that "un-Roman behavior" was disgusting. The nature of their racism was different from American racism, though, and that's the point of my screed. They didn't have "one drop" rules and they didn't care that much about physical appearance as long as you were culturally Roman.

Elagabalus was incredibly "un-Roman" in his behavior (including his sexuality) and therefore he was seen as a menace.

O.K. I do think that Roman and modern racism differ, sure, because they stem from quite different concepts of race and arose under totally different circumstances. I wouldn't go as far as saying Romans didn't care about your ethnicity because I'm pretty sure they did. 'Barbarian' was always an ethnical and cultural concept and one is really hard to tell from the other, especially two millennia after the fact. Sure, you can make your way through the ranks of an ethnically diverse army and hope to become pretender, than emperor. Doesn't tell you what Rome's senators would think about you. Maximinus Thrax was seen as a barbarian on the throne, so how do you tell if it was because of his manners or because he was presenting as Thracian. Is there even a difference?

Septimius Severus was half-Roman, half-Semitic, not ethnically African**. I don't see any notable differences in appearance in his busts but who knows. It's hardly a coincidence these Romans always used white marble, erasing his possible Libyan heritage. Shitlords, I tell you.

Gothicus was of Illyrian origin, if wikipedia is right, which I don't think qualified as Germanic then.

But I do agree that Romans had a no clear concept of race, rather of foreignness. I just think ethnicity is quite a part of that.


** I'm also not at home so I can't do more than skim some wikipedia links right now. So basically all there is to this knowledge thing.

As I recall, there is some indication that the Greeks and Romans painted the white marble afterwards. Just a sec ... OK here we go, from Harvard Magazine

e.g. Caligula
http://harvardmagazine.com/2007/11-images/s3.jpg


Anyway, the article gives more Greek examples than Roman but see The Glyptotek project for more on this (downloadable reports). The latest "preliminary" report is here.

I had a history teacher that went on and on about how great the Greek statues were and how the stark whiteness of everything had this affect on their lives and yadda yadda yadda. When I point out that we now have proof that this shit was painted and colorful she told be to shut up.

Real cunt.

Tigzy wrote:

Parody Accountant wrote:You guys... they released maxi pads for your anus.

Shart pads.
Poopshoot parachutes.
Second chance wipes.
Skid-lock protection.
Santorum Sanitary Napkin.

Dung Doilies.
Winnit Wings.
Leaky Knicks.
Dangleberry Diapers.

'OooaaaAAAWWWGRAAAAH BODYFORM! Bodyform for POO-OOO!'

Bunghole Blocker
Crapper Catcher

German LurksBoatsman wrote:

Kirbmarc wrote:The lifestyle was much more of an issue than the ethnicity. I'm not saying that the Romans were tolerant, far from it. They were, as I wrote, hugely culturally racist: they believed that the Roman culture was superior to all others and that "un-Roman behavior" was disgusting. The nature of their racism was different from American racism, though, and that's the point of my screed. They didn't have "one drop" rules and they didn't care that much about physical appearance as long as you were culturally Roman.

Elagabalus was incredibly "un-Roman" in his behavior (including his sexuality) and therefore he was seen as a menace.

O.K. I do think that Roman and modern racism differ, sure, because they stem from quite different concepts of race and arose under totally different circumstances. I wouldn't go as far as saying Romans didn't care about your ethnicity because I'm pretty sure they did. 'Barbarian' was always an ethnical and cultural concept and one is really hard to tell from the other, especially two millennia after the fact. Sure, you can make your way through the ranks of an ethnically diverse army and hope to become pretender, than emperor. Doesn't tell you what Rome's senators would think about you. Maximinus Thrax was seen as a barbarian on the throne, so how do you tell if it was because of his manners or because he was presenting as Thracian. Is there even a difference?

Septimius Severus was half-Roman, half-Semitic, not ethnically African**. I don't see any notable differences in appearance in his busts but who knows. It's hardly a coincidence these Romans always used white marble, erasing his possible Libyan heritage. Shitlords, I tell you.

Gothicus was of Illyrian origin, if wikipedia is right, which I don't think qualified as Germanic then.

But I do agree that Romans had a no clear concept of race, rather of foreignness. I just think ethnicity is quite a part of that.


** I'm also not at home so I can't do more than skim some wikipedia links right now. So basically all there is to this knowledge thing.

Yeah, you're right, I might have oversimplified the concepts behind Roman "ethnicism". However the point was that while in-group positive biases and out-group negative biases are a psychological reality, racism is a social construct, different in its application from a society to another, and you can't analyze it in a vacuum regardless of historic and social context.

You can't say "people's ideas about what exactly is race and what are the words used to define it don't matter" if you want to understand the different flavors of racism, while you can say "people's ideas about the position of the earth within the universe don't matter" if you want to understand the position of the earth within the universe. The Earth isn't a social construct, racism is, language is, the language related to race is doubly so.

Steersman's and Szvan's arguments hinge on an abstract equivalence between "nigger" and "cunt" which erases social and historic contexts in favor of a supposed "analogy". That's why they're both wrong.

Top of Reddit's /r/videos right now.

[youtube]fHMoDt3nSHs[/youtube]

More Ramadan celebrations:

The attack on the predominantly Kurdish town of Kobani and the nearby village of Brakh Bootan marked the biggest single massacre of civilians by ISIS since it killed hundreds of members of the Sunni Sheitaat tribe in eastern Syria last year, the Observatory's Abdulrahman said.

The assault included at least three suicide car bombs. The dead included the elderly, women and children, Abdulrahman said.

This follows Kurdish militias making territorial gains from IS. Apparently pissed that they got their asses handed to them IS scum courageously disguised as Kurds and FSA decided to murder civilians.

AndrewV69 wrote: Ahahahaha!

Brings back memories of my being required to show how I arrived at the answer and despite getting the right answer, being failed because I could not show the solution.

The latest iteration of that "defect" was to be informed many years ago by a psychologist that I came across as very arrogant. One example he gave was the results of the math tests they gave us*.

He said that skipping two-five questions where I did not put down the answer, but correctly answering the next three-four in higher difficulty and repeating this pattern over and over could indicate that I considered some questions "beneath" me, especially as I had not given any incorrect answers.

I did not bother to explain but the fact of the matter is this. When it comes to simple math, generally what happens is I "see" the answer and working out afterwards if my answer is correct by formal methods takes up a large chunk of time. Since the test was time based, as in do as many of these as you can within a set time, what I did was to scan the questions and answer only those I saw the answer to immediately.

No I did not bother to explain, experience has shown me that the likelyhood I would be believed is slim to none. So once more I got marked down as an arrogant prick, not that it bothered me, because in many ways I really am an arrogant prick.

* A bunch of us were subjected to 60+ hours of testing to see if we had what it takes to go on to higher management.

Your membership badge is in the mail:

http://vector.me/files/images/7/8/78098 ... ribbon.png

John D wrote:

deLurch wrote:

John D wrote:
Prediction. This will help the Republicans in 2016 because they will argue this is another case of SCOTUS over-reach. There is already a law in Michigan that allows religious adoption agencies to refuse a gay couple. There is a bill in progress that says you can only be married by a religious officiant. The battle will continue in the political arena even if this is settled law.

Yeah, I can see the religious right trying to pull an abortion catch to this ruling. They might continue to put up small laws and barriers in the way in an effort to prevent this.

Gay marriage will not be banned.... I agree. But the Republicans will get tons of mileage and votes from all the adjacent topics associated with religious freedom. We are going to hear nothing from Republicans except that a baker of a wedding cake doesn't need to bake a cake for gays...etc.

My super religious coworker (who thinks this is a sign of the coming end times) is worried that liberals will start to force ministers to perform gay weddings. It's total bullshit... but they really think this is coming.

I agree. It's little talked about, but analysts across the political spectrum widely believe that Roe v. Wade has been a tremendous electoral boon to Republicans. It radicalized 15-20% of the population and made them highly reliable GOP voters, whereas going back to the '50s evangelicals were actually less likely to vote than the general population and leaned Democrat. It also gave pro-life Republican congressmen cover to not propose restrictive abortion measures that would greatly damage their electoral prospects. They could tell pro-life groups that as much as they would like having this or that restriction, the Supreme Court would nullify it so what was the point of introducing it. Finally, it made it safe to vote GOP for pro-choicers whose politics align more with Republicans than Democrats outside the abortion issue. In the unlikely event that pro-lifers could actually pass some significant abortion restriction, it would be struck down. Many Democratic Party strategists are fully aware of the electoral impact of Roe v. Wade and would secretly welcome its weakening. Similarly, I'm sure there are Republican strategists that like things just the way they are and would have trepidations about a weakening of Roe v Wade.

This ruling may very well have a similar effect, with obviously diminished magnitude since the social right is already pretty saturated with support for the GOP. But there is still room. If Romney had received the same level of support from evangelicals as McCain did (and McCain wasn't an evangelical favorite either), the 2012 race would have been extremely close.

Maybe it's the millenial in me, or the fact that I don't ever have to do a great deal of calculating, but even the rote learning of addition, times tables, and the like seems like wasted time now. I have a calculator to do all the tedious parts for me.

The fun stuff was physics and engineering, the former being something I never got around to until senior year (and even then only as an elective). So showing how it could be applied would have definitely generated my interest.

Even in terms of pure math though, I think they could have done a better job. I remember getting excited when we first had to do proofs, for example, but it was clear the teacher was just copying the three examples given in the text. She didn't have the knowledge to really engage us in a discussion on the underlying logic, what it could mean in novel situations and so on

Skep tickle wrote: Also, I quite disagree about pushing kids to memorize, memorize, memorize as their intro to math. Maybe some will find that comforting but others will chafe at it. Math is (personal bias here) fascinating, useful, & (above the arithmethic level) beautiful. Not everyone will have their boat floated by the same thing, but allowing it to be interesting seems like a much better way to keep from training kids to hate math.

I found math to be boring and never really learned to memorize much of anything except perhaps the six times table. I realized that multiplication was really addition and division was subtraction so I went with that when called upon to recite a table in class.

As I recall the Math teacher was pissed the 1st time I did it, as it became apparent that I had not memorized the table and instead was adding as I went along. As I recall I got thrashed for that.

When I was in school, we used chalk on slates, and later on when we were older, ink from an inkwell was used. You were thrashed for using a pencil, or horror upon horror, one of those modern fountain pens.

Let me see if I can find an image of the sort of desks we used, I have a feeling that some of you really need to see this.

Here we go:
http://nyhistoric.com/wp-content/upload ... hool-6.jpg

The ink wells had no caps on them. Instead, you had a bottle of ink, which you poured into the inkwell, then you dipped your pen into the ink.

If you were left handed, your days were filled with woe beyond what was normal for right handers.

For your days would be filled with ink smeared shirt sleeves and forearms, and your good copy would have to be done over and over till you managed not to smear it.

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images ... anning.jpg

Skep tickle wrote:US Supreme Court makes same-sex marriage legal in all 50 states. 5-4 decision, Kennedy writing for the majority.

A random news article, hot off the press: http://thehill.com/homenews/news/246241 ... x-marriage

\o/

It is a very special Finland Friday. I hope everyone has a extra special gay day!

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0666/5 ... 1416992796

Parody Accountant wrote:

This joke will undoubtedly fail....

jet_lagg wrote:Maybe it's the millenial in me....

You just doxxed yourself as a Mazda executive.

Skep tickle wrote:US Supreme Court makes same-sex marriage legal in all 50 states. 5-4 decision, Kennedy writing for the majority.

A random news article, hot off the press: http://thehill.com/homenews/news/246241 ... x-marriage

This is an important result about equality of rights, and for once both we and PZ will have something to celebrate.

I think that sooner or later most "Western" nations where gay marriage isn't legal yet will follow the American example.

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:

Steersman wrote:

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:[.quote="Little Paul Myers"]Think about this: Yiannopoulos is arguing that men’s and women’s brains are different, and men are intrinsically better at the science stuff. ....[/.quote]

Right. It's impossible that men might tend to be inherently better at science than women, cuz one woman is better at science than one man. QED.

And they let this shit-for-brains stand in front of a classroom.

Maybe some "problematic" phrasing there. Seems less a case that men - as a class, a bit of an abstraction - "tend to be inherently better at science" than one in which there are, maybe, more men who are better at science than there are women - for a wide spectrum of reasons. Sort of a "it's more of a guy thing" which doesn't in the least obviate the fact that there are many women who are better at science - and mathematics [Emmy Noether] - than men. Rather analogous to the case of the disparity in heights:
http://i62.tinypic.com/1zb827l.jpg
Some women are taller [better at science] than some men, even if [a conjecture] there are [marginally] more men who are better at it [taller] than there are women:

"Therefore shoddy and inept application of words lays siege to the intellect in wondrous ways." Novum Organum

No.

Ipse dixit.

Billie from Ockham wrote:This joke will undoubtedly fail....

jet_lagg wrote:Maybe it's the millenial in me....

You just doxxed yourself as a Mazda executive.

Ahura Mazda .... Though I'm not entirely sure of the connection with millennialism.

Billie from Ockham wrote:

Parody Accountant wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:New toy! And the jaws open and close!!! Bad quality picture, but the sculpture and hand-painting are gorgeous. Of course, I will leave the jaws closed until a responsible adult can supervise me to open them. I could lose a finger on those things, you know?

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5623EB65

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=562E41D7

I support your life choice to never grow up, Phil.

"but even the rote learning of addition, times tables, and the like seems like wasted time now. "

Really? Knowing what 5x7 = or 5+3 = immediately is wasted time? And for the record, Common Core still requires knowing this basic stuff. It's when they get to things like adding 447 + 963 = it's starts getting really bad. Rather than reinforcing standard math they introduce (right from the get go) many different ways to solve the problem. Convoluted ridiculous ways that will never apply to math problems outside the common core curriculum. For when you start adding several numbers the bullshit common core methods won't work. Sure, for the test, you'll do fine, but for actual math skills, you've been given very little practice. They are shown methods that only work with 2 digit addition with 2 numbers. Yay. So you learn this stuff but it doesn't apply to 3 digit addition or many numbers. They do this rather than focus on standard math which would apply to all addition everywhere always (except for the common core test).

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:New toy! And the jaws open and close!!! Bad quality picture, but the sculpture and hand-painting are gorgeous. Of course, I will leave the jaws closed until a responsible adult can supervise me to open them. I could lose a finger on those things, you know?

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5623EB65

https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=562E41D7

I support your life choice to never grow up, Phil.

Joybubbles did this. He was a pretty cool guy... until he reverted to 5 years old mindset in 1988. He stayed 5 years old for the rest of his life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joybubbles

Steersman wrote:

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:

Steersman wrote: ... "problematic" .... Rather analogous to .... Novum Organum

No.

Ipse dixit.

katamari Damassi wrote:In my early internet experiences on bulletin boards services I learned that a lot of people who identify as liberal or progressive are reflexively opposed to any generalization. If you were to say that in general humans have brown eyes, you'd get a dozen "nuh-uh. I have blue eyes and know a lot of people who don't have brown eyes." I think it's an instinct against falling for potentially nasty stereotypes, which I understand. Though generalizations are true about a population, we must regard people as individuals. If it's found that in general, women are more nurturing than men, that shouldn't be used to decide a particular child custody case.

My ex GF was a social worker, and she was saying that sort of shit all the time. Just one example: I noted that with trans*identity, there's a high comorbidity of mental and behavior conditions. (Statement of fact, supported by clinical studies.) She said, nuh-uh -- I know two trans*people, and they are both well-adjusted.

During one those interminable back & forths with her, I stated: to the closest approximation of 1, life on Earth is beetles. She said, nuh-uh.

It's an SJW axiom that: everyone's the same, but everyone is unique.

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Another islamic terrorist attack this morning in France by two guys. So far, it's only been reported that one person was beheaded and their head hung on the factory's gate along with two islamic flags. The terrorists also drove through some gaz containers, probably trying to explode them. One of the suspected attackers has been arrested.

Deport the lot of them - at least all those who won't piss on the Quran. I wonder how many more of those incidents it will take for Western societies to realize that, as Ibn Warraq rather convincingly argued, Islam is simply and entirely antithetical to central and fundamental principles of democracy.

free thoughtpolice wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Another islamic terrorist attack this morning in France by two guys. So far, it's only been reported that one person was beheaded and their head hung on the factory's gate along with two islamic flags. The terrorists also drove through some gaz containers, probably trying to explode them. One of the suspected attackers has been arrested.

Wham Bam Ramadam, thank you Imam!

So many killings in the name of Islam.... And only June 26

Perhaps I am just getting older, but it seems to me that Ramadan comes earlier and earlier each year.

It will be Christmas soon.

debaser71 wrote:"but even the rote learning of addition, times tables, and the like seems like wasted time now. "

Really? Knowing what 5x7 = or 5+3 = immediately is wasted time?

Mostly. Yeah. Anytime I do anything with math I'm putting it into a calculator anyway, so the real concern is making sure I've formulated it all correctly. And I'm not convinced I wouldn't have memorized the more commonly used (for me) tables anyway, just because I tend to remember things I commonly use.

Parody Accountant wrote:[.tweet][/tweet]

:lol: "Mirror, mirror, on the wall ...."

Parody Accountant wrote:

I wish I'd had the chance to learn maths by rote.

I don't think that recalling what 13 x 7 is automatically - rather than having to work it out - even with a calculator - every bloody time - is any different than knowing how to spell 'receipt' without a dictionary.

It simply means your brain is free for the tricker stuff.

A great deal of what I do involves statistics but my Dad, who knows fuck all maths beyond addition, subtraction, multiplication and division, beats me hands down in the number rounds of Countdown because he learnt this stuff by rote and never forgot.

Shatterface

SM12 wrote:

free thoughtpolice wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Another islamic terrorist attack this morning in France by two guys. So far, it's only been reported that one person was beheaded and their head hung on the factory's gate along with two islamic flags. The terrorists also drove through some gaz containers, probably trying to explode them. One of the suspected attackers has been arrested.

Wham Bam Ramadam, thank you Imam!

So many killings in the name of Islam.... And only June 26

Perhaps I am just getting older, but it seems to me that Ramadan comes earlier and earlier each year.

It will be Christmas soon.

Meanwhile EastEnders celebrates Ramadan with a storyline about a Muslim girl being beaten up by white kids.

Shatterface

Shatterface as Guest wrote:I don't think that recalling what 13 x 7 is automatically - rather than having to work it out - even with a calculator - every bloody time - is any different than knowing how to spell 'receipt' without a dictionary.

While the better way to say the second half of the above is (something like) "knowing how to spell 'receipt' without using the phoneme to grapheme rules of English," the evidence supports the idea that recalling basic math facts parallels recalling the spelling of words.

With that said, there are patients who have lost math facts without losing spelling and patients who have lost spelling without losing math facts, so, while the process (from a cognitive point of view) is the same, the underlying brain structure is distinct.

Steersman wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Another islamic terrorist attack this morning in France by two guys. So far, it's only been reported that one person was beheaded and their head hung on the factory's gate along with two islamic flags. The terrorists also drove through some gaz containers, probably trying to explode them. One of the suspected attackers has been arrested.

Deport the lot of them - at least all those who won't piss on the Quran. I wonder how many more of those incidents it will take for Western societies to realize that, as Ibn Warraq rather convincingly argued, Islam is simply and entirely antithetical to central and fundamental principles of democracy.

Should we deport all the fundamentalist Christians, too, or at least all those who won't piss on the Bible?

Christianity used to be simply and entirely antithetical to central and fundamental principles of democracy largely until a couple of centuries ago. In 1864 the Pope basically condemned freedom of religion as heretical.

Fundamentalist Christians like those who follow the dominion theology still support theocracy and have some influence on the American Religious Right. More than a few Christians have committed terrorist acts in the name of their religion, too.

I'm all for criticising, mocking and limiting the power of Muslims: no Islamic courts should ever be allowed, no Islamic schools should receive public funding, perpetrators of acts of violence and those who aid and abet them must be severely punished, no intellectuals who spews idiotic SJW pro-Muslim propaganda should be taken seriously by liberals.

Your illiberal proposal, though, is also fundamentally antithetical to central and fundamental principles of liberal democracy, like freedom of religion and of opinion.

I've read about synesthetes who perform mathematical tricks instantaneously because they 'see' numbers arranged spatially.

Also, doesn't Daniel Tammet perceive numbers as having 'personalities'?

Shatterface

jet_lagg wrote:

debaser71 wrote:"but even the rote learning of addition, times tables, and the like seems like wasted time now. "

Really? Knowing what 5x7 = or 5+3 = immediately is wasted time?

Mostly. Yeah. Anytime I do anything with math I'm putting it into a calculator anyway, so the real concern is making sure I've formulated it all correctly. And I'm not convinced I wouldn't have memorized the more commonly used (for me) tables anyway, just because I tend to remember things I commonly use.

The ability to do very basic arithmetic without a calculator is an important critical thinking skill because it allows you to quickly test out certain kinds of propositions in your head or on the back of an envelope and frequently discard them before getting into the weeds (e.g. 20% of female college students will be raped). You're right that it's not essential. But being able to do this inline with a discussion or reading an article will save vast amounts of time and frustration.

I do think primary mathematical education is way too heavily skewed to arithmetic and should have more elements of mathematical thinking earlier. There was a hugely misguided attempt to do this in the '60s. I recall when I was in sixth grade around 1977, we briefly covered maybe the sole survivor of this effort which was different bases in numerical systems. That might have been my first introduction to actual mathematics. Interestingly, the motivation behind teaching it was probably to introduce abstract meta-type concepts, but it wound up being of significant practical value when I got into computer programming a few years later.

Shatterface as Guest wrote:I've read about synesthetes who perform mathematical tricks instantaneously because they 'see' numbers arranged spatially.

When I come across people who claim things such as "prime numbers smell different to me," I usually just tell them that I'm not licensed to practice in whatever state that we're in and move on. Quickly. And then kill another kitten.

Can we deport steersman if he refuses to say nigger to a large black man?

comhcinc wrote:Can we deport steersman if he refuses to say nigger to a large black man?

If we can deport comhcinc if he refuses to say "cunt" to a large, "meaner than a junk-yard dog", black-belt qualified, woman ....

Steersman wrote:

comhcinc wrote:Can we deport steersman if he refuses to say nigger to a large black man?

If we can deport comhcinc if he refuses to say "cunt" to a large, "meaner than a junk-yard dog", black-belt qualified, woman ....

Sure. I have no issue about calling some woman a cunt. In fact I did it just a little bit ago. What about you?

comhcinc wrote:

Steersman wrote:

comhcinc wrote:Can we deport steersman if he refuses to say nigger to a large black man?

If we can deport comhcinc if he refuses to say "cunt" to a large, "meaner than a junk-yard dog", black-belt qualified, woman ....

Sure. I have no issue about calling some woman a cunt. In fact I did it just a little bit ago. What about you?

To their face? In person? And not just some woman, but one likely to have some objections to the insult and be willing and able to express her displeasure? (so to speak).

Steersman wrote: To their face? In person? And not just some woman, but one likely to have some objections to the insult and be willing and able to express her displeasure? (so to speak).

Yes. I am not some rogue a.i program that only exist on the internet.

Shatterface as Guest wrote:I've read about synesthetes who perform mathematical tricks instantaneously because they 'see' numbers arranged spatially.

Also, doesn't Daniel Tammet perceive numbers as having 'personalities'?

Shatterface

Not sure about synesthesia, but one of the remarkable abilities commonly associated with savant syndrome is the ability to solve certain types of math problems near-instantaneously (aka lighting calculating).

Tammet, often described as an autistic savant, says that every positive integer up through 10,000 has its own shape, color and texture - properties that are in some way inherent (in his mind at least). He says he can solve certain problems by combining the shapes in his mind, and seeing the answer in the resultant combined shape and/or in the space between them.

He did a pretty interesting TED talk a while back.

Parody Accountant wrote:

Billie from Ockham wrote:

Parody Accountant wrote:

Oh come on....POE!

jimthepleb wrote:Oh come on....POE!

Well of course Billy is a poe.

yes it's perfectly obvious that billy is poe

Kirbmarc wrote:

Steersman wrote: Deport the lot of them - at least all those who won't piss on the Quran. I wonder how many more of those incidents it will take for Western societies to realize that, as Ibn Warraq rather convincingly argued, Islam is simply and entirely antithetical to central and fundamental principles of democracy.

Should we deport all the fundamentalist Christians, too, or at least all those who won't piss on the Bible?

I always find it jarring when Steersman trots out the mass deportation of Muslims. He's usually circumspect to a fault when it comes to sweeping judgments. It's like having a conversation with someone who appears thoughtful and then they start into how the Jews control the media.

That said, I do think that countries which have large Muslim immigrant populations should be very careful about their citizenship processes. At very least, a large voting bloc full of medievalists needs to be avoided. It may be necessary at some point to have deportation available as an option not only for extremists but also for those who have shown no effort to assimilate. But it would require a lot more dirty water under the bridge to justify this, and I have trouble coming up with a scenario that could justify true mass deportation without due process.

Kirbmarc wrote:

Steersman wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Another islamic terrorist attack this morning in France by two guys. So far, it's only been reported that one person was beheaded and their head hung on the factory's gate along with two islamic flags. The terrorists also drove through some gaz containers, probably trying to explode them. One of the suspected attackers has been arrested.

Deport the lot of them - at least all those who won't piss on the Quran. I wonder how many more of those incidents it will take for Western societies to realize that, as Ibn Warraq rather convincingly argued, Islam is simply and entirely antithetical to central and fundamental principles of democracy.

Should we deport all the fundamentalist Christians, too, or at least all those who won't piss on the Bible?

Christianity used to be simply and entirely antithetical to central and fundamental principles of democracy largely until a couple of centuries ago. In 1864 the Pope basically condemned freedom of religion as heretical.

Seems like a good idea, even if it is currently somewhat impractical. But I think that highlights the fact that you aren't really comparing apples with apples - more like apples with aardvarks. Specifically:

• Based on the principle of triage, one tends to put one's limited resources where they can do the most good: there are far fewer fundamentalist Christians, as a percentage, than there are fundamentalist Muslims;
• As you noted ("used to be ...."), there aren't that many Christian terrorists about, and the religion, their "holy book" (gag), doesn't explicitly call for jihad and the killing of all infidels;
• Christianity rather explicitly accepts - more or less - the separation of church and state ("render unto Caesar ...") whereas Islam more or less repudiates that dichotomy;
• kind of difficult to deport Christians when there's very little evidence to determine where to deport them to; much clearer in the case of Muslims, particularly recent immigrants;
• "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

Kirbmarc wrote:I'm all for criticising, mocking and limiting the power of Muslims: no Islamic courts should ever be allowed, no Islamic schools should receive public funding, perpetrators of acts of violence and those who aid and abet them must be severely punished, no intellectuals who spews idiotic SJW pro-Muslim propaganda should be taken seriously by liberals.

Curious then that you apparently attempted to take PZ to task for doing precisely that. Using stereotypes to mock or criticize hardly qualifies as racism, particularly if it's clear that one isn't claiming they apply to all members in a group.

Kirbmarc wrote:Your illiberal proposal, though, is also fundamentally antithetical to central and fundamental principles of liberal democracy, like freedom of religion and of opinion.

Freedom of religion isn't an absolute. As the recent US Supreme Court ruling on gay marriage belatedly recognizes - better late than never.

Steersman's favorite math book:

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uplo ... nigger.jpg

comhcinc wrote:Can we deport steersman if he refuses to say nigger to a large black man?

Yes, and we should deport him to Nigeria.

free thoughtpolice wrote:

comhcinc wrote:Can we deport steersman if he refuses to say nigger to a large black man?

Yes, and we should deport him to Nigeria.

For the safety of all humankind I think it would be best to pull a Planet Hulk on him.