Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
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Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Hey, I saw Mockingjay I on Sunday, and it pretty much sucked.
Let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
Last edited by Lsuoma on Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: To adjust the title.
Reason: To adjust the title.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
[quote Martin had the legal right to say, "fuck you, old man -- I live here.' Martin did not have the legal right to approach Zimmerman, knock him to the ground and wail on him.[/quote]
You only have Zimmerman's word that is what happened- do you somehow have some fact as to who actually initiated contact?
I think Zimmy boy actually wrapped his thumb over Trayvon's neck, Got any evidence that proves otherwise Cowboy? :P
You only have Zimmerman's word that is what happened- do you somehow have some fact as to who actually initiated contact?
I think Zimmy boy actually wrapped his thumb over Trayvon's neck, Got any evidence that proves otherwise Cowboy? :P
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Right, and I was careful to say GZ followed 'the path' because by that time, right around when the police dispatcher advised him not to follow, he had already lost TM and wouldn't see him again until he was attacked.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Fine, but "following" /= "engaging".
For anyone criticizing GZ's behavior, I would ask how do you expect Neighborhood Watch to operate? Here we had a neighborhood that was suffering through a series of minor break-ins, and someone on Neighborhood Watch patrol sees an older teenager meandering around slowly in the rain. Who wouldn't think this is suggestive of someone casing the area? Neighborhood Watch is supposed to observe and call the police when it encounters suspicious behavior, which is exactly what GZ did.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: Anyway, even had GZ done it (he didn't'), "challenging" a stranger is legal. What's streng Verboten under SJW Sharia: suspecting a young black man you've never seen before who's wandering aimlessly through your neighborhood while it's raining cats and fucking dogs of possibly being a burglar when your neighborhood has been victimized by a spate of burglaries & home invasions committed by young men.
Is this kind of scrutiny unfair to teenagers who do not rob homes, a group which may or may not include Trayvon Martin? Yes, it is. But life isn't fair. Sometimes you'll face hardships due to the actions of others. Dealing with it maturely is a responsibility of becoming an adult.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Was Zimmerman in his own neighborhood? He needed to check to see what street it was on, or was he lying about that?
It seems to me that Martin was a legitimate guest at that complex and GZ was following him up a dark pathway. He followed him for blocks, why did he wait to come forward and identify himself as a concerned citizen?
Are you saying it wouldn't creep you out if you were in Martin's shoes and someone was doing that to you?
Zimmerman is a cowardly little bully with a bad temper that has a record of violent confrontations before and since this happened.
I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw up on him, it surprises how many people do though and take his self serving statement as fact.
It seems to me that Martin was a legitimate guest at that complex and GZ was following him up a dark pathway. He followed him for blocks, why did he wait to come forward and identify himself as a concerned citizen?
Are you saying it wouldn't creep you out if you were in Martin's shoes and someone was doing that to you?
Zimmerman is a cowardly little bully with a bad temper that has a record of violent confrontations before and since this happened.
I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw up on him, it surprises how many people do though and take his self serving statement as fact.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Not to be armed. Never patrol alone, never follow a suspicious person. These are pretty standard rules that you can see print over and over again. Also I question if a teenager walking down the street playing on his phone is truly a suspicious person, but you have already declared that due to his age, which Zimmerman was able to tell in the dark and in the "pouring" rain, he was suspicious just by default.jugheadnaut wrote:
For anyone criticizing GZ's behavior, I would ask how do you expect Neighborhood Watch to operate?
I am amazed by some of these arguments. It's like not good enough that Zimmerman was legally in his right to protect himself once the fight started; people feel the need to justify all his actions.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
He called police, and should have stayed with his car. Neighborhood watch shouldn't have untrained hotheads packing heat and confronting teenagers for looking suspicious. If you are carrying a loaded, ready to shoot weapon shouldn't you have some responsibility to use extra care not to get into trouble that can escalate into deadly force.For anyone criticizing GZ's behavior, I would ask how do you expect Neighborhood Watch to operate? Here we had a neighborhood that was suffering through a series of minor break-ins, and someone on Neighborhood Watch patrol sees an older teenager meandering around slowly in the rain. Who wouldn't think this is suggestive of someone casing the area? Neighborhood Watch is supposed to observe and call the police when it encounters suspicious behavior, which is exactly what GZ did.
Is this kind of scrutiny unfair to teenagers who do not rob homes, a group which may or may not include Trayvon Martin? Yes, it is. But life isn't fair. Sometimes you'll face hardships due to the actions of others. Dealing with it maturely is a responsibility of becoming an adult.
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jugheadnaut
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I could see a moron like Zimmerman accidentally shooting a resident as likely as burglar shooting one given his behavior. I wouldn't feel safer with an asshole like that walking around armed playing cops and robbers.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Try this argument out and see if it amazes you.
I have a knife in my pocket and it is easily accessible. I go out and pick a fight with someone because I don't know the guy and he is not from my hood.
When the guy hits me I decide I need to protect myself, so I ram my knife into the left side of his chest just under the rib cage and slightly. I was just protecting myself!
I have a knife in my pocket and it is easily accessible. I go out and pick a fight with someone because I don't know the guy and he is not from my hood.
When the guy hits me I decide I need to protect myself, so I ram my knife into the left side of his chest just under the rib cage and slightly. I was just protecting myself!
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Of course that isn't what happen either. It is clear that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and kicking his ass. It's safe to assume that Zimmerman feared for his life. He was totally in the right at that moment.free thoughtpolice wrote:Try this argument out and see if it amazes you.
I have a knife in my pocket and it is easily accessible. I go out and pick a fight with someone because I don't know the guy and he is not from my hood.
When the guy hits me I decide I need to protect myself, so I ram my knife into the left side of his chest just under the rib cage and slightly. I was just protecting myself!
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Well, I actually questioned your endorsing Zimmerman's lack of obedience to an official request, but, OK, we'll go with respect.bovarchist wrote:I really don't see how me finding it reasonable for Zimmerman to attempt to figure out which way Martin went so the police would have some information to work with translates to me not having respect for the abilities of the police.
Are you saying that the police couldn't figure this out without Zimmerman's help? That they needed some applicant-reject to solve this "crime" for them? And, please note, that the odds of Martin getting killed is much lower if it's the police that he meets up with, Ferguson not-withstanding.
Zimmerman had no authority to do what he was doing. Stalking is stalking, regardless of whether you do it in your neighborhood. Martin had the exact same right to be where he was as Zimmerman.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
And you know these details, how?Kirbmarc wrote:Nothing prevented Martin from asking Zimmerman to stop following him, or from running away, or from calling the police himself. He chose to attack Zimmerman out of the blue, so he was the one who initiated the physical confrontation and threatened Zimmerman's life.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Are you seriously sticking with this wonderful example of mind-reading given what Zimmerman has done since? Seriously? Your woo is much mo' powahfoo than mine, in that case.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:For the last time: Zimmerman was not trying to initiate an encounter -- we was trying to get the cops to come out and approach Martin.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Oh boy, atheist podcaster David Smalley is begging to be the next Witch of the Week:
5 Warning Signs That Social Justice is Your New Religion
:popcorn:
5 Warning Signs That Social Justice is Your New Religion
:popcorn:
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Succès de scandaleBiohazard wrote:Oh boy, atheist podcaster David Smalley is begging to be the next Witch of the Week:
5 Warning Signs That Social Justice is Your New Religion
:popcorn:
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
So, you initiate a fight and when the guy you picked the fight with begins to win you can use your lethal weapon to "even" :lol: it up. Cause you got scared?comhcinc wrote:Of course that isn't what happen either. It is clear that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and kicking his ass. It's safe to assume that Zimmerman feared for his life. He was totally in the right at that moment.free thoughtpolice wrote:Try this argument out and see if it amazes you.
I have a knife in my pocket and it is easily accessible. I go out and pick a fight with someone because I don't know the guy and he is not from my hood.
When the guy hits me I decide I need to protect myself, so I ram my knife into the left side of his chest just under the rib cage and slightly. I was just protecting myself!
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
BSR wrote:
In Ferguson apparently there were only 2 people shot by police in the last 10 years, both survived.Are you saying that the police couldn't figure this out without Zimmerman's help? That they needed some applicant-reject to solve this "crime" for them? And, please note, that the odds of Martin getting killed is much lower if it's the police that he meets up with, Ferguson not-withstanding.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
It was me, I confess it. I egged on George Zimmerman. I snuck up behind Darren Wilson as Michael Brown was trying to surrender and yelled "Boo!" It seemed funny at the time. I guess I'm a terrible bad racist. Now that that's ironed out, somebody post gifs of Greta's old porn movies. Gotta lose ten pounds by xmas.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
QFT.jugheadnaut wrote: For anyone criticizing GZ's behavior, I would ask how do you expect Neighborhood Watch to operate? Here we had a neighborhood that was suffering through a series of minor break-ins, and someone on Neighborhood Watch patrol sees an older teenager meandering around slowly in the rain. Who wouldn't think this is suggestive of someone casing the area? Neighborhood Watch is supposed to observe and call the police when it encounters suspicious behavior, which is exactly what GZ did.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Where's Judge Dredd when you need him?
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Legally? Yes. Morally? That is on you brother bear.free thoughtpolice wrote:So, you initiate a fight and when the guy you picked the fight with begins to win you can use your lethal weapon to "even" :lol: it up. Cause you got scared?comhcinc wrote:Of course that isn't what happen either. It is clear that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and kicking his ass. It's safe to assume that Zimmerman feared for his life. He was totally in the right at that moment.free thoughtpolice wrote:Try this argument out and see if it amazes you.
I have a knife in my pocket and it is easily accessible. I go out and pick a fight with someone because I don't know the guy and he is not from my hood.
When the guy hits me I decide I need to protect myself, so I ram my knife into the left side of his chest just under the rib cage and slightly. I was just protecting myself!
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
comhcinc, you said you were going to post a picture of your penis...that picture you posted. You in the circle? I figure it's not a dox since you got the mask on...
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
What ever you do don't store your lost weight in the fridge:CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:It was me, I confess it. I egged on George Zimmerman. I snuck up behind Darren Wilson as Michael Brown was trying to surrender and yelled "Boo!" It seemed funny at the time. I guess I'm a terrible bad racist. Now that that's ironed out, somebody post gifs of Greta's old porn movies. Gotta lose ten pounds by xmas.
[youtube]D_wyYGWV-tg[/youtube]
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
1) The eye witness testimony, the precise timeline .. oh and GZ's head injuries, all corroborate GZ's account;free thoughtpolice wrote:Was Zimmerman in his own neighborhood? He needed to check to see what street it was on, or was he lying about that?
It seems to me that Martin was a legitimate guest at that complex and GZ was following him up a dark pathway. He followed him for blocks, why did he wait to come forward and identify himself as a concerned citizen?
Are you saying it wouldn't creep you out if you were in Martin's shoes and someone was doing that to you?
Zimmerman is a cowardly little bully with a bad temper that has a record of violent confrontations before and since this happened.
I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw up on him, it surprises how many people do though and take his self serving statement as fact.
2) Doesn't mean a rat's ass what you think of GZ as a person. He did nothing illegal. That was Martin.;
3) Before you were criticizing GZ for provoking an 'altercation'; now you're bitching that he waited too long to confront TM?
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Commy, did you read that question right?comhcinc wrote:Legally? Yes. Morally? That is on you brother bear.free thoughtpolice wrote: So, you initiate a fight and when the guy you picked the fight with begins to win you can use your lethal weapon to "even" :lol: it up. Cause you got scared?
"...begins to win".
Not "...becomes a threat to your life", but "...begins to win".
Legally, no. Morally, always up to you. Ethically, it seems so.
Americans are fucked up.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Just the thought of fapping to Greta is...withering. It's not appearance shaming, it's the cabbage smell.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
I wish I was that big.CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:comhcinc, you said you were going to post a picture of your penis...that picture you posted. You in the circle? I figure it's not a dox since you got the mask on...
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Yeah, so? Whatcha gonna do about it? Nothing? Though so. Maybe a Tomahawk cruise missile for your christmas, buddy.ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:snip
Americans are fucked up.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
I did read the question and at least in my local I am correct. Your milage may very.ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Commy, did you read that question right?comhcinc wrote:Legally? Yes. Morally? That is on you brother bear.free thoughtpolice wrote: So, you initiate a fight and when the guy you picked the fight with begins to win you can use your lethal weapon to "even" :lol: it up. Cause you got scared?
"...begins to win".
Not "...becomes a threat to your life", but "...begins to win".
Legally, no. Morally, always up to you. Ethically, it seems so.
Americans are fucked up.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
That statement is so full of shit. GZ didn't shoot TM "as [a] likely burglar"; he shot him because TM accosted him, broke his nose with a punch, knocked him to the ground, then proceeded to bash his skull against the pavement.free thoughtpolice wrote: I could see a moron like Zimmerman accidentally shooting a resident as likely as burglar shooting one given his behavior. I wouldn't feel safer with an asshole like that walking around armed playing cops and robbers.
Do you not get this? Or are you arguing that blacks get to beat up non-blacks just because they're creeped out by them?
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
The fact this even came up requires immediate aversion theory.CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Just the thought of fapping to Greta is...withering. It's not appearance shaming, it's the cabbage smell.
Let me throw the switch ...
http://i.imgur.com/cm9BmlD.jpg
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STFU about Zimmerman. Nobody else gives a crap.
Zimmerman was entirely within his rights as a citizen to do what he did. It was not stalking. Look "stalking" the fuck up.BlueShiftRhino wrote: Zimmerman had no authority to do what he was doing. Stalking is stalking, regardless of whether you do it in your neighborhood. Martin had the exact same right to be where he was as Zimmerman.
Yes, Martin had the exact same right to be where he was. He did not have a right to beat the shit out of a stranger. Or are you arguing that a black person being observed by a white person has the right to beat up that white person?
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Oh...uh...thank you Brive. Just avoided dessert.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
How the fuck did GZ initiate the fight?free thoughtpolice wrote: So, you initiate a fight and when the guy you picked the fight with begins to win you can use your lethal weapon to "even" :lol: it up. Cause you got scared?
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
The only "eyewitness" is Zimmerman. We don't disagree that he was losing the fight so head injuries...Matt Cavanaugh wrote:1) The eye witness testimony, the precise timeline .. oh and GZ's head injuries, all corroborate GZ's account;free thoughtpolice wrote:Was Zimmerman in his own neighborhood? He needed to check to see what street it was on, or was he lying about that?
It seems to me that Martin was a legitimate guest at that complex and GZ was following him up a dark pathway. He followed him for blocks, why did he wait to come forward and identify himself as a concerned citizen?
Are you saying it wouldn't creep you out if you were in Martin's shoes and someone was doing that to you?
Zimmerman is a cowardly little bully with a bad temper that has a record of violent confrontations before and since this happened.
I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw up on him, it surprises how many people do though and take his self serving statement as fact.
2) Doesn't mean a rat's ass what you think of GZ as a person. He did nothing illegal. That was Martin.;
3) Before you were criticizing GZ for provoking an 'altercation'; now you're bitching that he waited too long to confront TM?
I guess the fact that Zimmerman wasn't charged with a crime when he assaulted an off duty cop, girlfriend, elderly father-in-law never did anything illegal. He wasn't convicted of that, just like Martin had never been convicted.
They are both Angels :drool:
Maybe if he thought this guy was dangerous, he may have been wise to try and contact in a well lit, open area for his own safety, and then let the cops deal with it. Not follow him into a dark alley packing heat, especially when you have zero evidence he has committed a crime or anyone is endangered by him.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
See it as as a selfless community service. No thanks required.CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Oh...uh...thank you Brive. Just avoided dessert.
I see Pinchguest is back on Avi's blog - when did Avi overcome principle for colour, movement and page hits?
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
On your first point, yes, the courtroom testimony - what there was - matched Zimmerman's final version of what happened. However, there was no witnesses to the crucial moment: when Martin got on top of Zimmerman. For all we know - independent of Zimmerman's testimony - it was Zimmerman who threw the first punch and then got his ass kicked.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:1) The eye witness testimony, the precise timeline .. oh and GZ's head injuries, all corroborate GZ's account;
2) Doesn't mean a rat's ass what you think of GZ as a person. He did nothing illegal. That was Martin.
As to you second point, again, yes, but only if you allow Zimmerman to fill in the blanks for when we have no third party. As above, if Zimmerman initiated the physical contact, then Zimmerman committed at least one crime and probably two.
Yes, the Zimmerman story is not directly refuted. But that doesn't come close to the level of confidence that you're expressing. Can't you see that?
And given what has happened since, giving Zimmerman all benefit of the doubt is increasingly unwarranted.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
As to the definition of stalking, I suppose that you're correct; there's no way that Zimmerman's attention to Martin was unwanted.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Zimmerman was entirely within his rights as a citizen to do what he did. It was not stalking. Look "stalking" the fuck up.BlueShiftRhino wrote: Zimmerman had no authority to do what he was doing. Stalking is stalking, regardless of whether you do it in your neighborhood. Martin had the exact same right to be where he was as Zimmerman.
Yes, Martin had the exact same right to be where he was. He did not have a right to beat the shit out of a stranger. Or are you arguing that a black person being observed by a white person has the right to beat up that white person?
As to your second point, see previous post. I'm worried that you've lost track of which aspects of Zimmerman's story has corroboration. Most of all: we have no witness to the beginning of the fight, do we?
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Come on out to Morris he said ...
http://i.imgur.com/zWmENlH.jpg
PZ once again loses situational awareness.
http://i.imgur.com/Lxo1j1s.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zWmENlH.jpg
PZ once again loses situational awareness.
http://i.imgur.com/Lxo1j1s.jpg
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
The fact that I think Zimmerman didn't transgress any legal or ethical boundaries during this incident in no way implies I feel the need to do so. I don't. After the story emerged, I was closer to your opinion that he didn't do anything illegal but was overly gung-ho and probably bears some moral responsibility for what happened. It was only during and after the trial when I looked at the evidence in detail did I come to the conclusion that he did nothing wrong.comhcinc wrote:Not to be armed. Never patrol alone, never follow a suspicious person. These are pretty standard rules that you can see print over and over again. Also I question if a teenager walking down the street playing on his phone is truly a suspicious person, but you have already declared that due to his age, which Zimmerman was able to tell in the dark and in the "pouring" rain, he was suspicious just by default.jugheadnaut wrote:
For anyone criticizing GZ's behavior, I would ask how do you expect Neighborhood Watch to operate?
I am amazed by some of these arguments. It's like not good enough that Zimmerman was legally in his right to protect himself once the fight started; people feel the need to justify all his actions.
Your examples were direct answers to my question on what Neighborhood Watch could do differently, which is great. However, you're moving the goalposts from your earlier claim that Zimmerman had some moral guilt. The examples you gave are matters of best practice and have nothing to do with ethics. I did notice in the aftermath of the trial that many non-Americans thought the fact he was carrying a gun was somehow evidence of guilt. But he should be judged by the culture he lives in. He was legally carrying the gun, as is his right, and it stayed fully holstered until the end when he was getting his head pummeled. And then, it may have saved his life or prevented serious injury.
There's no ethical issue with patrolling alone. It may not be the optimal practice, but if there is only one volunteer on a given day, are you making the blanket statement that no patrol should ever be held? Your saying, based on this one event, that the risks must outweigh the rewards?
It's the goal of Neighborhood Watch to monitor suspicious activity. This sometimes implies following, as long as you don't intervene, and admittedly this has a big gray area. But are you saying that you can only monitor as long as you're not mobile while doing so?
So you're 'amazed' by the idea that someone in the high-criminality age range who is walking aimlessly around a neighborhood with a recent history of break-ins at night in the pouring rain could be regarded as suspicious? Let me explain. People who live in the area would probably be making a quick bee-line home. A potential thief, on the other hand, would probably find this an ideal time to case the neighborhood since most people will be inside and there will be little traffic. This behavior defines suspicious.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
He followed the guy around. with his vehicle staring at him. Then he got out when on foot he couldn't follow by road.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:How the fuck did GZ initiate the fight?free thoughtpolice wrote: So, you initiate a fight and when the guy you picked the fight with begins to win you can use your lethal weapon to "even" :lol: it up. Cause you got scared?
After that neither of us knows what really happened, but you seem to believe Zimmerman's version on faith.
I don't.
For that matter I haven't invested any belief that Martin was entirely innocent either but GZ maybe not guilty , but I don't think he's innocent.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Hey, Fascist Tit, something's wrong with the pit. I keep clicking on the newest page of the current thread, but I still end up on one of the dead horse arguments from last fucking summer.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
So pleasant to be secure in life's certainties.
He should write a paper. I hear Zvan's running low.
http://i.imgur.com/C1fkxuc.jpg
He should write a paper. I hear Zvan's running low.
http://i.imgur.com/C1fkxuc.jpg
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Yeah, I know. It's "I can never be wrong"-land in the Pit right now. That clang you heard was my shiny metal ass being bored off, and dropping to the floor.Cliché Guevara wrote:Hey, Fascist Tit, something's wrong with the pit. I keep clicking on the newest page of the current thread, but I still end up on one of the dead horse arguments from last fucking summer.
Sigh.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Never noticed the typo in that page before.Brive1987 wrote:The fact this even came up requires immediate aversion theory.
You learn something every day.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Lulz level dropping perilously low. Quick, Damion, give us that patented Damio wit, yah doxxing bastard you...
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Crommunist will shortly eschew all the ill-gotten gains to which this blatant patriarchy has granted him. He will go to Africa, and live off the land, no longer engaging with the white man's evil technology. Or just shut the fuck up with phony guilt.Brive1987 wrote:So pleasant to be secure in life's certainties.
He should write a paper. I hear Zvan's running low.
http://i.imgur.com/C1fkxuc.jpg
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
No, but the implications from the evidence are strong. Zimmerman was still in the same general area where he concluded talking with the police dispatcher two minutes earlier. Martin had gone down the path towards the home where he was staying, and according to his girlfriend on the phone, he said at one point he was at the house, which was relatively far away (about 100 yards). She also said he was angry about being followed, especially so after she told him he should run away (not really relevant, but he might have interpreted that as a challenge to his manhood which goaded him to go back and confront Zimmerman). The two minute time frame also strongly implies that Martin walked away from Zimmerman towards the house and then walked back. So who's more likely to have started the fight? The guy who called the police and was waiting for them to arrive in the area where he called, or the guy who reversed back a significant way and had expressed anger? Not really a difficult decision.BlueShiftRhino wrote: I'm worried that you've lost track of which aspects of Zimmerman's story has corroboration. Most of all: we have no witness to the beginning of the fight, do we?
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
As long as you express it as "who is more likely...?" then we don't have much of a dispute, even if I happen to believe that it's a bit more difficult to nail down and find the alternative actually more likely, especially given what we've seen since. For example, you cite Zimmerman's call to the police as evidence that he probably was in the right. I might add that Zimmerman was a failed police-applicant and could have been angered by their telling him to back off - it was another rejection of his mad policin' skilz - and went vigilante in response. The same data can be used for either theory.
In any event, "who is more likely...?" is quite different from how some others are describing it. We have a bit too much sureness about all this for a bunch of skeptics, in my opinion.
In any event, "who is more likely...?" is quite different from how some others are describing it. We have a bit too much sureness about all this for a bunch of skeptics, in my opinion.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
... and a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested.jugheadnaut wrote:
There's an old saying that a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Fair enough, and as the grumbling is getting loud, I won't drill down into what you said and just close out my participation on a note of comity.BlueShiftRhino wrote:As long as you express it as "who is more likely...?" then we don't have much of a dispute, even if I happen to believe that it's a bit more difficult to nail down and find the alternative actually more likely, especially given what we've seen since. For example, you cite Zimmerman's call to the police as evidence that he probably was in the right. I might add that Zimmerman was a failed police-applicant and could have been angered by their telling him to back off - it was another rejection of his mad policin' skilz - and went vigilante in response. The same data can be used for either theory.
In any event, "who is more likely...?" is quite different from how some others are describing it. We have a bit too much sureness about all this for a bunch of skeptics, in my opinion.
One semantic musing, though. I wonder what level of assuredness in the truth of something a skeptic should have before they declare it 'true' in casual conversation as opposed to 'very likely true'. In this case, I'd put my personal evaluation of the probability that Martin started the fight at over 99%. If someone announced that a secret video of the fight existed and bets were being taken prior to its release on who started the fight, I'd probably need at least 250:1 odds before I'd put any action on Zimmerman. At this point, is it OK to say in casual conversation "Trayvon Martin started the fight" as opposed to "Trayvon Martin very likely started the fight"? Of course, there's no right answer to this and everyone will have their personal thresholds. In my case, I'd probably still say "very likely", although I'll have to go back and see if I slipped up on this in my previous messages. I think I would need odds over 1000:1 before I'd consider throwing caution to the wind and pronounce something simply 'true'. I suspect there's a Briggs Myers type correlation here. An xNTP probably has a very high tolerance for doubt and would typically need overwhelming confidence before declaring something 'true' without qualification. An xSFJ, on the other hand, may only need greater than 50% confidence.
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
You are absolutely entitled to state your opinion and need not even add an automatic proviso when you are that highly confident. But as soon as someone expresses doubts or an opposite opinion, I would expect you to say that are not completely sure - that you don't "know" with a capital K. And, if I went on to say that I was about two-thirds confident that Zimmerman either started the physical fight or said something to push Martin into swinging first (while knowing that he had a gun), then I'd only ask that you not insult me, tell me to read some 101 shit, but actually engage, since you're not sure, either.
I have gone from absolutely sure of something to knowing that it was false many times in my life. Anyone who says that this hasn't happened to them has either never been sure of anything or is lying or self-deluded. Or a blogger at FtB. (Sorry about the false dichotomy. tee hee) Of course, if this happens a lot - note to self: reread this tomorrow - then you might want to examine your criteria for being absolutely sure of stuff.
I have gone from absolutely sure of something to knowing that it was false many times in my life. Anyone who says that this hasn't happened to them has either never been sure of anything or is lying or self-deluded. Or a blogger at FtB. (Sorry about the false dichotomy. tee hee) Of course, if this happens a lot - note to self: reread this tomorrow - then you might want to examine your criteria for being absolutely sure of stuff.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Is that the movie with George Zimmerman in it? Tell me more.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Hey, I saw Mockingjay I on Sunday, and it pretty much sucked.
Let's talk about that.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
First half of that book was pretty dire. In fact the whole series was like a bucket of KFC - you stuff it down and then wonder ...... Why?dog puke wrote:Is that the movie with George Zimmerman in it? Tell me more.Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Hey, I saw Mockingjay I on Sunday, and it pretty much sucked.
Let's talk about that.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
It's a modern Pietà , the closer and more intently you observe, the more detail leaps out at you.d4m10n wrote:Never noticed the typo in that page before.Brive1987 wrote:The fact this even came up requires immediate aversion theory.
You learn something every day.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Jay keeps his 'head rape' moves for the girls.
Evan looks like he'd rather handle a red belly black snake than put his hand on Watson.
Fun times.
http://i.imgur.com/fLDOcLU.jpg
Evan looks like he'd rather handle a red belly black snake than put his hand on Watson.
Fun times.
http://i.imgur.com/fLDOcLU.jpg
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
This is not a particularly flattering photograph of Darren Wilson...
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/7 ... 7922-1.jpg
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/7 ... 7922-1.jpg
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
Quite. A screwdriver is obviously the correct choice.bovarchist wrote:Son, if you don't mean to kill, a gun is the wrong weapon to use.
Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
My working assumption is that it's an attempt to get at least half of us to blow out our fucking brains.free thoughtpolice wrote:I don't see why Zimmerman is being brought up here...
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...
???jugheadnaut wrote:Oh, come off it. I know you're being partly tongue-in-cheek, but still. Having two particular cases where you defend a white guy shooting a black guy as acting in self defense implies that you believe all cases of a white guy shooting a black guy are justified? That accusation seems to stem psychologically from the reverse: that any time a white man shoots a black man, racism must play a major role. I thought we'd need JacquesCuze for that. ;)katamari Damassi wrote:Yeah I'm starting to get the uncomfortable feeling that to some pitters there's never bee a dead black guy who didn't have it coming.BlueShiftRhino wrote:
Yup. Waiting for the police would have been completely unreasonable. The guy was walking. In a hoodie! Every second counted. If Zimmerman hadn't intervened - against the expressed advice and request of the police - who knows what would have happened.
Here's a recent example of a white man who shot a black man, claiming he felt threatened, where he was most justifiably found guilty. Closer to where I live, here's an example of a cop shooting an ethnic minority (Arab, in this case), where the officer has been charged with murder 2, justifiably in my opinion.