Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Kirbmarc]

Have you read Scalia's dissent? It's almost impossible to understand what the hell is his point. It's almost like reading a document written by latsot.

No, when he wants to be, Scalia is a shape legal mind but when he is morally against something he lets that butthurt get the better of him and he just goes off.

When he does this he does a disservice for his cause. If he was to remain unemotional he could be writing descents that could later be used.

I'm pretty sure you're right, but in this case he definitely let his emotions get the better of him. It's not a dissent, it's a rant which covers pretty much every argument of the anti-same sex side but never fully argues in a coherent way for any of them.

[James Caruthers]

But no matter our indignation and outrage if we start blaming people for not accurately profiling criminal we've gone full SJW ("men are rapists!" and "Muslim are criminals!" are inspired by the same logic).

Yep. We can't argue "all accused rapists should have their human rights respected and be given a fair trial" while claiming "any Muslim who doesn't piss on the Koran should be deported like the religio-terrorist scum they are!"

It's inconsistent.

Let's stop with all this precrime nonsense. You can't punish someone for a crime they haven't committed and you can't hold someone responsible for crimes other people committed, or even for a crime you think they might someday commit. Thinking something bigoted isn't criminal.

[James Caruthers]

This modern PC master race shit is a disgrace.

The gearheads co-opted a perfectly fine thing and perverted it. If you watch the original Zero Punctuation Witcher video linked by some guest a page ago, you'll see that PCMR wasn't about technology. It was about complex/clever games vs. simple/retarded games. The True PC Gamerâ„¢ doesn't play modern AAA shit in better quality than the console peasants. We play good games like "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" for example, which is so old (1999) that it basically runs on any of todays toasters and the only reason it wouldn't work on consoles is, that - besides their owners being idiots, of course - they don't use mouse and keyboard.
So the typical modern PCMR member is as much a cretin as any console peasant.

And I'm only half joking here. The core message is unfortunately serious. Games are getting more and more retarderd, in theme and gameplay. Another example: TES3:Morrowind (2002) is much more interesting than TES5:Skyrim (2011)

I can agree with this.

[jimthepleb]

The EC don't do anything, but the EC privacy law allows St Louis to command search engines and others to remove search results (and maybe also other publications, I'm not sure about that) if she deems them an invasion of her privacy.

I don't see it being effective. The Streisand effect will kick in.

[free thoughtpolice]

What happened to Special Ed Snowden? Did he find a butterfly and/or a squid painted on his driveway and get scared into silence? :think:

[Skep tickle]

For those who can't see embedded tweets:
https://twitter.com/seanmcarroll/status ... 4741680128

Before you jump to defend someone accused of being sexist, think about putting that energy into combatting sexism. Make the world better.

This sounds grand but I just can't agree, if there is any question of the accusation being false and/or the sequelae being disproportionate & harmful.

Well, sure, you can think about it - thought is free* - but this suggests justice for individuals is dispensible in pursuit of a broader change in social behavior. :shock:

*to a first approximation, though actually not "free" in the economic sense as it does burn glucose & displaces other thoughts you were going to have at that time, nor in the sense of "limitless scope" as it's constrained by the hardware & software

[Skep tickle]

Forgot to add, @seanmcarroll also linked this post in a tweet right around the same time: How to talk to little girls (from 2011)

I really enjoyed it & thought the advice was great. But one can take that approach AND "jump to defend" someone who's being unfairly accused & punished for something it's claimed he said, but that claim doesn't reflect the whole story.

[feathers]

For those who can't see embedded tweets:
https://twitter.com/seanmcarroll/status ... 4741680128

Before you jump to defend someone accused of being sexist, think about putting that energy into combatting sexism. Make the world better.

This sounds grand but I just can't agree, if there is any question of the accusation being false and/or the sequelae being disproportionate & harmful.

No doubt he means well, but Carroll hasn't been on the receiving end of the neostalinist wrath- yet.

[Skep tickle]

h/t @clarlemon
Victimhood damages society... and comedy

[H. Korban]

Actually, it is pretty easy to fast during Ramadan. One just needs a little bit of will power. However, a much harder thing to do it is to pay Zakaat. Almost no one wants to part with their money, and I suggest people try it this year. This is an obligatory charity which all Muslims must do. It is one of the five or seven (depending who does the counting) "pillars" of Islam and must be done yearly, usually during Ramadan. Basically, you count up your savings for the year, and give 2.5% to charity. The 2.5% is also evaluated on fixed assists (only once, when they are acquired). There are guidelines on who should get the money (first to those around you, your poor family, your poor neighbors, widows, orphans, etc).

Interestingly, many people actually give far in excess of 2.5%. For example, the Ismailis give 10% of savings, and then 20% Khumus. The latter is charity based on your "sudden gains" in a year. For example, if you get an inheritance or a gift or dividends no shares etc you must pay khumus. Turns out that this (giving Zakaat) is a very big part of Ramadan rituals. There are numerous online calculators to compute how much you owe, and also a lot of charity organization which will collect the money. One organization in particular, the Aga Khan Development Network (AKDN), has become one of the largest charities in the world, doing extraordinary work across the world, even in places where most charitable organizations won't go.

I should say that the Quran, like all religious literature, is a mix of sublime, absurd and downright violent. In the case of the Quran in particular, the interpretation of verses vary enormously. For example, some take the verses on "cutting of heads" pretty literarily, while others (Sufis, Ismailis) have interpreted these (since very early times) to mean understanding and defending the religion with rational argument. Also, a lot of the verses are very specific to the time of the prophet and no longer applicable. This means that reading the Quran stand-alone is pretty much a futile task. One needs to combine it with a taafsir (a commentary) to understand what exactly is going on and was meant. A nice sunnni taafsir is by Ibn Kathir, which runs into 10 volumes with copious footnotes. In the case of the Ismailis, however, taafsir are (usually) not written and one needs to learn from a teacher.

My point is that those who make blanket statements like "Quran is an awful book …" are totally ignorant of its contents and its meaning to Muslims. It behoves skeptics to think carefully and try and understand its content before making silly, ignorant statements.

Incidentally, I suggest we have a "Piss on Steersman" test for humanity. If you can not piss on him, you are a machine and need to taken to the scrap heap.

[dogen]

This modern PC master race shit is a disgrace.

The gearheads co-opted a perfectly fine thing and perverted it. If you watch the original Zero Punctuation Witcher video linked by some guest a page ago, you'll see that PCMR wasn't about technology. It was about complex/clever games vs. simple/retarded games. The True PC Gamerâ„¢ doesn't play modern AAA shit in better quality than the console peasants. We play good games like "Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri" for example, which is so old (1999) that it basically runs on any of todays toasters and the only reason it wouldn't work on consoles is, that - besides their owners being idiots, of course - they don't use mouse and keyboard.
So the typical modern PCMR member is as much a cretin as any console peasant.

And I'm only half joking here. The core message is unfortunately serious. Games are getting more and more retarderd, in theme and gameplay. Another example: TES3:Morrowind (2002) is much more interesting than TES5:Skyrim (2011)

The awesomeness that is SMAC made Beyond Earth even more of a let-down...

[Aneris]

Thanks for that. Different, though strangely similar: people who grew up in the German East (I did not), report that it was very nice because the shared, very similar circumstances made everyone feel like in the same boat and that, too, gave a strong sense of community. They had to improvise all the time, but since everyone had to, people helped each other. It's quite interesting how common rituals and circumstances give a strong sense of community. Perhaps we all know this from school etc and how this slowly fades away as we get older and everything becomes ever more individualized.

I'd think that, as about 1 in hundred of them were Stasi informers, such a thing as mutual trust would be impossible to build.

Don't get me started on how this was a totalitarian state — it was. However, people who lived there report, their accounts, that with all the shortcomings, they had a good time. These are “ordinary people” of the kind who just wanted to go about their lives and who aren't political or intellectually interested. Everything was taken care of. Full employment, many had a small house in the green or a kind of garden, and what was missing made people inventive and support each other. Since the type of communism wasn't particularily demanding, hobbyism thrived. Also all basics goods were super cheap, including the rent. Most people never had worries about money. Of course the downside was that even if you wanted to, you couldn't buy more advanced things and famously people had to wait 10+ years(!) for a car they ordered. So they had to be inventive to work around such shortcomings, plus with all the DYI hobbyists around everywhere, the people cooperated more and there was a strong sense of community — the higher ups didn't care about that. Arguably, this was well within the ideology, “the people” working together.

Of course those who were critical of the system or longed to live elsewhere had a hard time, with being harassed and monitored, at one end and mobbed, driven into depression and paranoia and jail on the other end. And of course travelling to another country, even into ost bloc states was always a hassle (and they could practically never visit a western country). Here again, people improvised and had a kind of “holiday at the lake” culture, including the famous nude swimming culture. That's still noticeable with east germans and in east germany till today — nude swimming or even hanging out nude in a park is perfectly normal, even in the centre of Berlin (of course not everywhere. There are areas in some parks that are, by habit, accepted as such).

[Tribble]

Have you read Scalia's dissent? It's almost impossible to understand what the hell is his point. It's almost like reading a document written by latsot.

No, when he wants to be, Scalia is a shape legal mind but when he is morally against something he lets that butthurt get the better of him and he just goes off.

When he does this he does a disservice for his cause. If he was to remain unemotional he could be writing descents that could later be used.

I don't think so. I think it's yet another Constitutional test that Mr. Constitutional Purity has failed because he's not Mr. Constitutional Purity and there was nothing he was going to write that was ever going influence modern jurisprudence.

ESPECIALLY AS HE COULDN'T EVEN GET A UNANIMOUS DISSENT! Come on, let's put our thinking caps on. If the dissenters were 'right' based on 'The Constituion,' I should think they might be able to pen a unanimous legal theory to why gays can't get married. Yet they can't.

And, in the end, like it or not, the Equal Protection Clause prohibits governmental discrimination based on What You Are. Which means the probition on Gay Marriage (based on What You Are) can't pass muster and there's nothing that he can say that doesn't fly in the face of pretty much every significant (and possibly minor) Equal Protection Clause decision the Supreme Court has made in the past 60 years, starting with Brown vs. Board of Education and continuing on...

What Scalia wanted was to turn the clock back to decisions like Buck v Bell:

We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

In bit of historical irony, the Virginia statute by which Buck was forcibly sterilized was used by Hitler to write his eugenics laws: <i>Law for the Prevention of Hereditarily Diseased Offspring.</i> And when we tried Nazi doctors for their eugenics-based war crimes, they used Buck v Bell in their defense. All of which should give one pause to think, yet never really seems to do....

Anyway, I ramble. I think there is nothing Scalia could write/wrote would be anything but amorality disgused as 'morality.' Just like Holmes and the rest of the Justices in the 8-1 Buck decision.

[Aneris]

Some people like games that are as easy as piloting a helicopter and a jet, simultaneously, while monitoring a nuclear power plant. Other people like intuitive games with a manageable control sheme that unfold complex, deep, challenging, well-tuned, ..., gameplay. I like the latter more. Miyamoto = Game Design God. Everyone can have their thing of course. I loath “animated excel table” social games. They are often hardly games, or at the very edge of the definition.

[Steersman]

h/t @clarlemon
Victimhood damages society... and comedy

Excellent. A salient passage of maybe some passing relevance:

A child who falls off of his bike when he is alone will pick himself up and dust himself off, but will burst into tears if his mother is watching. Both reactions are genuine, but with the mother's presence creating a different context.

A hypersensitive culture acts as your mother watching.

When we legitimise words as being damaging, they become damaging. When we overly sensitise society, we cause its members to be hurt by less and less.

[Skep tickle]

Public Service Announcement: Auction-item fundraiser for Skepchickcon closes in 8-9 hrs! (Range is due to the items having different end times.)

Archive link: https://archive.is/LnvoJ
Live link: http://www.ebay.com/sch/skepchickevents ... rom=&_ipg=

There are 16 items up for bid. 11 of them have not yet received a bid (though of course that could change - some people watch, & wait to bid till the last minute).

"New Horizons and Pluto Art Print by Surly Amy Davis Roth, signed by the artist" hasn't yet been bid upon, & "DNA Science Art Print by Surly Amy Davis Roth, signed by the artist" is up to $20.

Don't wait too long, or you may miss this opportunity!

[Kirbmarc]

These are “ordinary people” of the kind who just wanted to go about their lives and who aren't political or intellectually interested. Everything was taken care of. Full employment, many had a small house in the green or a kind of garden, and what was missing made people inventive and support each other. Since the type of communism wasn't particularily demanding, hobbyism thrived. Also all basics goods were super cheap, including the rent. Most people never had worries about money.

I think that this perception is more than a little bit colored by Ostalgie for the late seventies/eighties (people might not have to worry about employment or money but there many food shortages in the fifties and even the early sixties).

Life wasn't a continuous nightmare as long as you weren't a political dissident, but the economy and the overall quality of life of Germany and most countries in the East Bloc has improved a lot since the fall of communism. People often discount the fact that they have much more now than in the past. Some basic goods may be more expensive but people have far many more and better goods in general (cars, clothes, furniture, services for the house, to say nothing of electronic devices).

The recent economic crisis has also triggered the "it was better when it was worse" mentality. Basically if the economy takes a turn for the best and then gets worse people are going to long for all the times before the most recent crisis, even the times where the quality of life was worse than after the crisis. In general human beings tend to look at the past with rose-tinted glasses, especially as they get older. The generation which was in their thirties or late twenties in the late Eighties is now in their fifties/early sixties. People who were in their forties are well within their sixties or even their early seventies. It's only natural that they long for the times of their youth.

That said East Germany in the 70s-80s, while a totalitarian state, wasn't a hellhole like North Korea is now.

[free thoughtpolice]

Maybe Tauriq Moosa isn't such an oversensitive chickenshit after all, there is this showing up on twitter:
https://twitter.com/tauriqm00sa

[Steersman]

But no matter our indignation and outrage if we start blaming people for not accurately profiling criminal we've gone full SJW ("men are rapists!" and "Muslim are criminals!" are inspired by the same logic).

Yep. We can't argue "all accused rapists should have their human rights respected and be given a fair trial" while claiming "any Muslim who doesn't piss on the Koran should be deported like the religio-terrorist scum they are!"

It's inconsistent.

Let's stop with all this precrime nonsense. You can't punish someone for a crime they haven't committed and you can't hold someone responsible for crimes other people committed, or even for a crime you think they might someday commit. Thinking something bigoted isn't criminal.

Maybe. However, while I haven't yet read all of Emerson's essay Self-Reliance ..., this passage seems of some relevance and utility:

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.

While there might be some superficial similarities between the cases of rapists and Muslims, one might argue that there are some very significant differences between the two that justify different types of responses. For instance, there aren't that many rapists who honour and actively and publicly promote hating women and assaulting them, and publish and distribute manifestos to encourage those actions. And when they do, as I think was the the case of some PUA doing precisely that in Australia, they get the bum's rush. And, if I'm not mistaken, Germany has some apparently rather sensible laws to restrict the hate speech and activities of various neo-Nazi groups.

Maybe moot precisely where to draw the line and how to respond to those differences but it seems rather important to not whitewash them away.

[Steersman]

Maybe Tauriq Moosa isn't such an oversensitive chickenshit after all, there is this showing up on twitter:
https://twitter.com/tauriqm00sa

Kind of looks like a parody account, but maybe not.

[Sunder]

Advice to defense attorneys: become prosecutors.

[Skep tickle]

Maybe Tauriq Moosa isn't such an oversensitive chickenshit after all, there is this showing up on twitter:
https://twitter.com/tauriqm00sa

Kind of looks like a parody account, but maybe not.

It says "Clearly parody" in the bio, under the avatar..

[Sunder]

I should have anticipated this, but thankfully I was escorting a relative so I was there anyway, but today is a pretty awesome day to head down to your local church if you want to hear some wailing and gnashing of teeth over the events of the past week. It really put a spring in my step.

[Steersman]

Maybe Tauriq Moosa isn't such an oversensitive chickenshit after all, there is this showing up on twitter:
https://twitter.com/tauriqm00sa

Kind of looks like a parody account, but maybe not.

It says "Clearly parody" in the bio, under the avatar..

Yea, noticed that. But I had thought it might have been self-parody, although that does seem rather unlikely.

[Eskarina]

Actually, it is pretty easy to fast during Ramadan. One just needs a little bit of will power. However, a much harder thing to do it is to pay Zakaat. Almost no one wants to part with their money, and I suggest people try it this year. This is an obligatory charity which all Muslims must do. It is one of the five or seven (depending who does the counting) "pillars" of Islam and must be done yearly, usually during Ramadan. Basically, you count up your savings for the year, and give 2.5% to charity. The 2.5% is also evaluated on fixed assists (only once, when they are acquired). There are guidelines on who should get the money (first to those around you, your poor family, your poor neighbors, widows, orphans, etc).

Interestingly, many people actually give far in excess of 2.5%. For example, the Ismailis give 10% of savings, and then 20% Khumus. The latter is charity based on your "sudden gains" in a year. For example, if you get an inheritance or a gift or dividends no shares etc you must pay khumus. Turns out that this (giving Zakaat) is a very big part of Ramadan rituals. There are numerous online calculators to compute how much you owe, and also a lot of charity organization which will collect the money. One organization in particular, the Aga Khan Development Network (AKDN), has become one of the largest charities in the world, doing extraordinary work across the world, even in places where most charitable organizations won't go.

I should say that the Quran, like all religious literature, is a mix of sublime, absurd and downright violent. In the case of the Quran in particular, the interpretation of verses vary enormously. For example, some take the verses on "cutting of heads" pretty literarily, while others (Sufis, Ismailis) have interpreted these (since very early times) to mean understanding and defending the religion with rational argument. Also, a lot of the verses are very specific to the time of the prophet and no longer applicable. This means that reading the Quran stand-alone is pretty much a futile task. One needs to combine it with a taafsir (a commentary) to understand what exactly is going on and was meant. A nice sunnni taafsir is by Ibn Kathir, which runs into 10 volumes with copious footnotes. In the case of the Ismailis, however, taafsir are (usually) not written and one needs to learn from a teacher.

My point is that those who make blanket statements like "Quran is an awful book …" are totally ignorant of its contents and its meaning to Muslims. It behoves skeptics to think carefully and try and understand its content before making silly, ignorant statements.

Bolding mine. Making blanket statements about any given subject, especially without knowing what you're talking about is quite daft and a bad habit of most humans.

Having said that, let me ask what is in the Quran that is unique and beneficent to humankind?

Incidentally, I suggest we have a "Piss on Steersman" test for humanity. If you can not piss on him, you are a machine and need to taken to the scrap heap.

Scrap heap dweller, here. I don't see the point of this initiation rite. Don't like something? Don't read it and don't respond!

In the safe knowledge that very few here will understand the lyrics, I'll leave this:

[youtube]5wU1Dr5Vj_w[/youtube]

[Sunder]

There are 16 items up for bid. 11 of them have not yet received a bid (though of course that could change - some people watch, & wait to bid till the last minute).

I haven't used eBay in at least a couple years but I remember their bidding model being dumb as fuck and encouraging last second bids. Bidding early just meant you were going to be sniped unless you set an absurdly high maximum.

A sensible bidding model would extend the time left on an auction by a small amount for every bid placed in the final minute or so.

[Skep tickle]

https://twitter.com/JimBenton/status/612950620828512257

[Old_ones]

True. But my point was what should have been done before those invasions, both inside and outside those countries. "Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

That's only true when the ounce of prevention isn't a blatant injustice. You could argue for any number of intolerant and oppressive policies under that rationale. You could argue that atheists should be put in prison because the fact that we don't have an imaginary friend to tell us not to murder means we are simply too dangerous to be trusted with freedom. And if you look, we have evidence that this is the case, because the Chapel Hill parking lot shooter was an atheist. QED

Before you balk, saying that atheists aren't like Muslims, because we have solid secular reasons for abstaining from murder, keep in mind that the same argument also applies to the Muslims. Your average observant North American or Western European Muslim has good reasons to ignore the more intolerant and crazy aspects of Islam and live under an interpretation that allows them to coexist peacefully with their Christian and secular neighbors. Islam doesn't have to be a religion of peace in order for the majority of its adherents to be peaceful.

I understand that Islam has the potential to motivate intolerance and violence, but I think the intolerance and violence need to be considered separate from Islam, because a lot of Muslims can hold variations of that belief system that don't motivate them to violence.

Maybe. But sure seems to me that both Aayan Hirsi Ali and Ibn Warraq make a credible case that the intolerance and violence is intrinsic to the religion, and is only waiting for the opportuntities to express itself.

Argument from authority. Also as I keep explaining, Islam and Muslims are two different things. Islam is violent, so we should expect some Muslims to be violent. That doesn't mean we should assume that all the Muslims adhere to the doctrine the same way, or have the same willingness to do violence.

Yeah, I would say neo-nazism and Islam are different things, but its hard for me to know how to respond to this because of how absurd it is. Are you really trying to tell me that you think Islam is a stronger motivator for "problematic actions" than neo-nazi white supremacy? Have you been living under a rock for the last week? If so, maybe google "charleston shooting" and see what pops up.

Seems some evidence to justify that "stronger motivator". One of Benson's recent posts:

Make Ramadan a month of disasters for the infidels
Meanwhile yesterday there was that triplet of terror-murders in Tunisia and Kuwait and France.

In a matter of hours and on three different continents, militants carried out attacks on Friday that killed scores of civilians, horrified populations and raised thorny questions about the evolving nature of international terrorism and what can be done to fight it.

On the surface, the attacks appeared to be linked only by timing.

In France, a man stormed an American-owned chemical plant, decapitated one person and apparently tried to blow up the facility. In Tunisia, a gunman drew an assault rifle from a beach umbrella and killed at least 38 people at a seaside resort. And in Kuwait, a suicide bomber blew himself up inside a mosque during communal prayers, killing at least 25 Shiite worshipers.

I dispute the three continents claim. Eurasia is one continent, not two.

Earlier this week, the spokesman for the Islamic State, Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, greeted the group’s followers for Ramadan, telling them that acts during the Muslim holy month earned greater rewards in heaven.

“Muslims, embark and hasten toward jihad,” Mr. Adnani said in an audio message. “O mujahedeen everywhere, rush and go to make Ramadan a month of disasters for the infidels.”

In other words go out and murder as many people as you can because it’s holy month.

Maybe we would be wise to close the borders to Muslim immigration? At least against those who aren't prepared to piss on the Quran.

That isn't evidence that Islam is a stronger motivator to violence than any other motivator, that's an anecdote about a series of attacks. There are 1.6 billion Muslims on the planet and I would be surprised if there were 1% that many neo-nazis. If you want to know which ideology is a more potent motivator for violence, you'll need to look at the number of ideological crimes each group commits, and what percentage of the membership of each group are committing them.

I'm going to attempt an answer to that question for my own country, although I don't have time to write a dissertation today so my answer will be a little bit rudimentary. Lets look at the size of each group first. Wikipedia lists Islam as the fourth largest religion in the United States, and says that Muslims accounted for 0.9% of the population in 2010 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_ ... ted_States). The population of the United States was roughly 309 million in 2010 so we can estimate 2.8 million Muslims live here. The population of neo nazis is going to be less reliable because a lot of them are underground and I'm not willing to spend hours looking for scholarly estimates (which are not immediately forthcoming). In any case wikipedia says the largest neo nazi organization in the US is the NSM which boasts a whopping 400 members across 32 states (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism). Wikipedia further lists 15 other known neo-nazi organizations in the US and Canada (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... anizations). I'm going to be generous and assume that the true number of organization for the United States is double that, and that all of them have 400 members. I calculate that 12,000 neo nazis exist in the United States which means their community would be 0.4% the size of the Muslim community.

Now we have to look at the amount of violence each community is committing. If you type something along the lines of "neo nazi vs jihadist" into teh googles you'll find that this has been a subject of interest for a lot of people, but that most of the articles aren't quantitative, so this is going to be where my analysis is diciest. Most of these articles lump all "right wing extremists" together rather than teasing apart actual ideologies, but I was quite generous in my neo nazi count, so I'm going to accept that substitution. A New York Times article attempts to compare the deadliness of Jihadists and "white supremacists, antigovernment fanatics and other non-Muslim extremists"(http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/ta ... hreat.html). Not ideal, but we'll go with it. The times article is also fixated on the number of people killed, as opposed to the number of purps. But the Times article finds the domestic offenders more deadly by a factor of 2:1. The "homegrown extremists" killed 48 people to the Jihadist's 26. The number of purps isn't to be found, but I'll assume that it took one purp to kill two people and say there were 24 right wingers and 13 Jihadists. That would mean by my seat of the pants estimate is that in the United States 0.2% of neo nazis become hate murderers and 0.0005% of Muslims become hate murderers.

QED. Islam is not remotely close to neo nazism as a motivator of violence.

You can argue with my numbers (I admit that my estimate is low precision) but you can't get around the fact that there are hugely more Muslims than neo nazis, and that neo nazi violence happens at comparable rates to the jihadist violence. Adjusting a factor of 2 or 3 here or there isn't going to make the huge three order of magnitude discrepancy in the rate each group produces murderers go away.

[Sunder]

There are 16 items up for bid. 11 of them have not yet received a bid (though of course that could change - some people watch, & wait to bid till the last minute).

I haven't used eBay in at least a couple years but I remember their bidding model being dumb as fuck and encouraging last second bids. Bidding early just meant you were going to be sniped unless you set an absurdly high maximum.

A sensible bidding model would extend the time left on an auction by a small amount for every bid placed in the final minute or so.

Of course none of this should matter for charity because the purpose is to raise money for a cause, not to get a good deal, so people should be bidding early and trading bids rather than sitting to try to grab something at the last minute. If they're actually interesting in supporting the cause, that is.

[Sunder]

interested*

[Skep tickle]

There are 16 items up for bid. 11 of them have not yet received a bid (though of course that could change - some people watch, & wait to bid till the last minute).

I haven't used eBay in at least a couple years but I remember their bidding model being dumb as fuck and encouraging last second bids. Bidding early just meant you were going to be sniped unless you set an absurdly high maximum.

A sensible bidding model would extend the time left on an auction by a small amount for every bid placed in the final minute or so.

Of course none of this should matter for charity because the purpose is to raise money for a cause, not to get a good deal, so people should be bidding early and trading bids rather than sitting to try to grab something at the last minute. If they're actually interested in supporting the cause, that is.

Not "charity", exactly. It's to support Skepchick in bringing panel discussions, workshops, and a part-ay room to CONvergence. But, still, if that's a cause people believe in, then yes.

[dogen]

There are 16 items up for bid. 11 of them have not yet received a bid (though of course that could change - some people watch, & wait to bid till the last minute).

I haven't used eBay in at least a couple years but I remember their bidding model being dumb as fuck and encouraging last second bids. Bidding early just meant you were going to be sniped unless you set an absurdly high maximum.

A sensible bidding model would extend the time left on an auction by a small amount for every bid placed in the final minute or so.

Of course none of this should matter for charity because the purpose is to raise money for a cause, not to get a good deal, so people should be bidding early and trading bids rather than sitting to try to grab something at the last minute. If they're actually interesting in supporting the cause, that is.

It beggars belief that purchasing a Surly is ever a good deal, unless one counts "signaling in-group status" as part of that deal.

[CaptainFluffyBunny]

Surly Amy's stuff always makes me think of the clay art kids make at school for Mother's or Father's day. Although it's unkind, I always have this image of Surly's mom getting one and telling little Amy not to worry about grades and school, she can always make these for a living.

[x_?_x]

For those who can't see embedded tweets:
https://twitter.com/seanmcarroll/status ... 4741680128

Before you jump to defend someone accused of being sexist, think about putting that energy into combatting sexism. Make the world better.

This sounds grand but I just can't agree, if there is any question of the accusation being false and/or the sequelae being disproportionate & harmful.

No doubt he means well, but Carroll hasn't been on the receiving end of the neostalinist wrath- yet.

He will. Even if you say the right things, at some point, you'll say the right thing in the wrong way and they'll be on you like piranhas.

As for the tweet, and the idea it expresses... what utter nonsense. You should defend people falsely accused of sexism, racism and whatever other -ism the neo-puritans wish to use.

The grand irony is, of course, the hypocrisy.

SJWs / SJW-ish or SJW-esque types, they're so utterly consumed with their own personal image, their own reputations and how others perceive them, yet they try to tell others to stop worrying about defending their reputation, their image or how they're perceived.

[Sunder]

Not "charity", exactly. It's to support Skepchick in bringing panel discussions, workshops, and a part-ay room to CONvergence.

I wonder what the priority list for these things would be in the event that they didn't raise enough money to fund the whole slate.

My prediction is that the party room would not by the first thing to go.

[Sunder]

Even if you say the right things, at some point, you'll say the right thing in the wrong way and they'll be on you like piranhas.

Saying the right things just signals that you're a soft target. They're at their most feral and ruthless when eviscerating an in-group member because they can often count on that person not fighting back or actually assisting their tormentors.

[Billie from Ockham]

It's amazing how many times I've read the word "unelected" in the past 24 hours with regard to the SCOTUS decision, as though it means anything.

Lucky for me, my Tea-Party neighbor and I do not talk, so I haven't faced that (yet). But this morning he replaced his US flag with a Chinese flag.

What's more annoying to me is this: of all of the "big" SCOTUS decisions by Roberts and co., these last two were actually close to no-brainers, while Citizens United was not, but I don't recall any bitching from the Right about being "unelected" or "legislating from the bench" in that case.

Oh, and if corporations are people, then they need to get health insurance.

[comhcinc]

Lucky for me, my Tea-Party neighbor and I do not talk, so I haven't faced that (yet). But this morning he replaced his US flag with a Chinese flag.

That Chinese flag better be made in America!

[Billie from Ockham]

The Republicans seemed pretty happy that the Supreme Court was the ultimate authority on US law when its rulings suited them.

These rulings were perfect for them. They had no replacement for ObamaCare (which would be a problem, since it now polls well), while both that and gay marriage are great for turning out the moron-right base.

If I were in the mood for conspiracy theories, I'd say that this was all a set-up to get the fifth vote needs to over-turn Roe in about 6 years. In other words, the thinking is: "give them gay marriage, but we get to take away abortion via SCOTUS and then health insurance via legislation."

[Karmakin]

The Republicans seemed pretty happy that the Supreme Court was the ultimate authority on US law when its rulings suited them.

These rulings were perfect for them. They had no replacement for ObamaCare (which would be a problem, since it now polls well), while both that and gay marriage are great for turning out the moron-right base.

If I were in the mood for conspiracy theories, I'd say that this was all a set-up to get the fifth vote needs to over-turn Roe in about 6 years. In other words, the thinking is: "give them gay marriage, but we get to take away abortion via SCOTUS and then health insurance via legislation."

Pssst. They don't really want to get rid of abortion. It's a flag for them to be flown in the same way that equality is a flag for the Neo-Hipsters.

[jugheadnaut]

Confirmation that Twitter can turn anyone into a dullard. Not only is this a facile false dichotomy, but isn't defending those that have been wrongfully accused of sexism also making the world better? And if one believes that the zealotry invoked in the name of combatting sexism has become a bigger problem than sexism itself in some parts of the world, isn't allocating more energy to oppose this zealotry actually the superior way to make the world a better place?

[screwtape]

Don't get me started on how this was a totalitarian state — it was. However, people who lived there report, their accounts, that with all the shortcomings, they had a good time.

Any shared difficulty becomes a pleasurable memory in retrospect. Just think of the London Blitz and how, even today, survivors (actually the vast majority who were there, despite the terribly high casualty rates) say it was the best time of their lives. I lived in the East End as a student and listened to my neighbours endlessly upon the topic ("Notice the new roofs beyond number 37? That's where the land mine fell.") Good people. When I moved in, neighbours turned up after dark and asked if I needed a sofa or suchlike, as their son had one that fell off the back of a lorry! Fridge, stove, sofa, and armchairs were obtained for free this way.

As an incomparably trivial example from my life, I had the good fortune as a student to live at a time when few went on to post-secondary education, and if you did, you did so based on merit. Government was willing to split the cost for the few that earned a place at a university. So off I went, with my tuition fees paid by government, and my living costs split equally between my parents and a government grant (this was means-tested, and varied between government and parents paying it all). Only one year of my five at university could be spent in university accommodation, so after that one learned a lot about life in general. I teamed up with another student, to whom I am still married 39 years later, and we spent £5 a week on food each while living in our little bedsit. This meant going to street markets late on a Saturday and buying the vegetables they would otherwise have thrown away as being unfit for sale the following Monday, and calculating how to achieve minimal protein requirements (one egg, half a cup of dried beans, a piece of cheese the size of your thumb etc). Naturally, I now say "Happiest days of my life" when reminiscing, but at the time it was stressful and tense. Ever since, I have lived within a budget without difficulty, and I am grateful that I went through a financial bottleneck that taught me how to do it.

[Guestus Aurelius]

Advice to defense attorneys: become prosecutors.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

Carroll displays here the most despicable of SJW attitudes: that sacrificing innocent individuals at the altar of sociopolitical Progressâ„¢ is a noble thing; that ruining someone's career and reputation on the basis of untruths is really no big deal if the false accusations relate to an issue that SJWs happen to care a lot about.

Seriously—what logic differentiates Carroll's statement about defending those accused of sexism from Sunder's extension of it? Why can't we replace "being sexist" and "combating sexism" with "being a murderer" and "combating murder"? I understand that Carroll's talking about public perception and not the judicial system, but my experience with SJWs tells me that it's really the issue that matters to them, not the evidence.

I'm reminded of this infamous quote, from former assistant dean at Vassar College Catherine Comins, about men falsely accused of rape:

They have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the potential to do to her what they say I did?' Those are good questions.

[Kirbmarc]

Hat's off to Old_ones for replying to Steersman's abstract "analogical" arguments with an excellent post based on estimates of real statistics.

Empiric evidence >> a priori abstract analyses. Well done!

[free thoughtpolice]

I am really not a fan of Islam, but I'm also not a fan of bigotry against muslims.
For example, in rhe province of BC Canada, where Steersman and I live we had an influx of Shia and Ismaili muslims on the order of 100,000 people after the Islamic Revolution in Iran. They have raised a generation kids since then and to my knowledge have a grand total of zero terrorist incidents from this population.
We did however recently convict a white couple, BC born and raised into rock and roll and partying that sold their electric guitars, converted to salafi-jihadist islam and got caught in a sting trying to place a bomb at the BC legislature.
It seems that in western countries, most of the non white "revert" terrorists aren't recent immigrants from Muslim countries but are second or third generation muslims that have rejected the more moderate beliefs of their parents and gotten radicalized over the internet.
So, Steersman, pissing on the Magna Carta and the Canadian Bill of rights and getting immigrants to piss on the Koran would likely be an exercise in futility.

[Guestus Aurelius]

[youtube]JaLiWVTRVeU[/youtube]

[Badger3k]

You're correct. It has to do with the proven "superiority" of PCs over all other platforms ignoring the artificial, contrived and pretty much illusory benefits of other platforms and non-existent downsides of gamer PCs). It's been both humorous and serious, and has absolutely nothing to do with actual race, just equipment. Moosa is another idiot spouting bullshit, and seems to have a hard-on against games and gamers. He really is ignorant of gaming culture around the world, but like all ideologues, that doesn't stop him. He has to inject his own prejudices and beliefs into things where they don't exist. I guess like most of his ilk he has no stomach for disagreement - when will his Patreon be up and running? Until then, someone caught him on video after that exchange:

...

FTFY

I hate it when console tards opine on the PC Master race... The sour grapes and envy are palpable... ;)

Sadly, you're right on one part - PCs have long been hacked, but as I've learned recently during research, there is a thriving hacking community for various consoles as well.

[katamari Damassi]

Surly Amy's stuff always makes me think of the clay art kids make at school for Mother's or Father's day. Although it's unkind, I always have this image of Surly's mom getting one and telling little Amy not to worry about grades and school, she can always make these for a living.

:lol:
But her art is "peer reviewed"!

[Billie from Ockham]

Pssst. They don't really want to get rid of abortion. It's a flag for them to be flown in the same way that equality is a flag for the Neo-Hipsters.

You know, people keep telling me that and I keep forgetting that they've said it. I sort of want to argue that the wealthy can bop over to Canada, if they need to, but I actually agree that the Right probably wants to keep abortion legal here. So, ignore me.

[H. Korban]

Incidentally, I suggest we have a "Piss on Steersman" test for humanity. If you can not piss on him, you are a machine and need to taken to the scrap heap.

Scrap heap dweller, here. I don't see the point of this initiation rite. Don't like something? Don't read it and don't respond!

I don't believe you have been following the Rusty Heap of Diodes, Streesman (Piss Be Upon Him)'s verbal (or, more accurately, textual) diarrhea. When someone advocates mass deportation, asking people to piss on religious books, it is only fair that one asks that normal humans piss on this old demented metal scrap heap's positron chip to prove that they are human. Thats all.

[Sunder]

Pssst. They don't really want to get rid of abortion. It's a flag for them to be flown in the same way that equality is a flag for the Neo-Hipsters.

You know, people keep telling me that and I keep forgetting that they've said it. I sort of want to argue that the wealthy can bop over to Canada, if they need to, but I actually agree that the Right probably wants to keep abortion legal here. So, ignore me.

The best scenario for them is the one which we've been steadily approaching: technically legal, but damn near impossible in practice.

Sure, you can terminate a pregnancy...after you've gotten parents' permission, an unnecessary ultrasound, made to wait an arbitrary amount of time (which hopefully doesn't cause you to exceed the legal limit for number of weeks), and taken time off work to drive 300 miles out of town to the only clinic in your state and back again.

[free thoughtpolice]

When lilandra did her piece on how anti-feminist youtubers were shushing feminist youtubers apparently she was unaware of the sexual harassment scandal that hit the feminist youtube community:

abear says

June 28, 2015 at 12:20 am

Recently feminist youtuber JJ talkz has revealed that she has been subject to what sounds like some pretty creepy sexual harassment from people she identifies as male you tube feminists. Apparently there are 4 or so fairly well known men that are saying one thing on their videos, but behaving rather badly toward this 19 year old woman.
How many men that are claiming to be 3rd wave feminist allies and saying all the right things are just playing along to get laid?
Not a pleasant truth for sure, but something I think people should be aware of.
Reply

lilandra says

June 28, 2015 at 6:25 pm

You just keep speculating on that.
Reply

abear says

June 28, 2015 at 6:47 pm

I was commenting on claims made by JJ Talkz on youtube:
I suppose she could be lying about her victimization, so you are correct that I am speculating about her being truthful.
Reply

[Badger3k]

Public Service Announcement: Auction-item fundraiser for Skepchickcon closes in 8-9 hrs! (Range is due to the items having different end times.)

Archive link: https://archive.is/LnvoJ
Live link: http://www.ebay.com/sch/skepchickevents ... rom=&_ipg=

There are 16 items up for bid. 11 of them have not yet received a bid (though of course that could change - some people watch, & wait to bid till the last minute).

"New Horizons and Pluto Art Print by Surly Amy Davis Roth, signed by the artist" hasn't yet been bid upon, & "DNA Science Art Print by Surly Amy Davis Roth, signed by the artist" is up to $20.

Don't wait too long, or you may miss this opportunity!

Bjarte is salivating by his computer watching the minutes count down...

[Badger3k]

Lucky for me, my Tea-Party neighbor and I do not talk, so I haven't faced that (yet). But this morning he replaced his US flag with a Chinese flag.

That Chinese flag better be made in America!

I know you're joking, but most of the US Flags that I have seen have "made in China" on them. :bjarte:

[free thoughtpolice]

Bjarte is salivating by his computer watching the minutes count down...

Bjarte is apparently a petroleum engineer in Norway and given the downturn in the oil business he may very well be brjoke.

[jet_lagg]

Actually, it is pretty easy to fast during Ramadan. <snip>insightful points about the beauty of religion</snip>

I can agree with almost everything you're saying, while still taking the position that religion is ultimately harmful, and we should do away with it to the extent that's possible. I approve of the pillars from what I recall of them. Fasting, charity, prayer, pilgrimage to Mecca, and... death to the west? or something?

[feathers]

The best scenario for them is the one which we've been steadily approaching: technically legal, but damn near impossible in practice.

Sure, you can terminate a pregnancy...after you've gotten parents' permission, an unnecessary ultrasound, made to wait an arbitrary amount of time (which hopefully doesn't cause you to exceed the legal limit for number of weeks), and taken time off work to drive 300 miles out of town to the only clinic in your state and back again.

Of course, the rich (Republican) people will just put their beloved knocked-up offspring on a cheap return flight to Havana to have an abortion far removed from the neighbour's eye.

[Shatterface as Guest]

Before complaining about detaining terrorist suspects without trial we should put more energy into locking them up.

Which Carroll is this, the physics guy or the biologist?

Shatterface

[jugheadnaut]

Have you read Scalia's dissent? It's almost impossible to understand what the hell is his point. It's almost like reading a document written by latsot.

No, when he wants to be, Scalia is a shape legal mind but when he is morally against something he lets that butthurt get the better of him and he just goes off.

When he does this he does a disservice for his cause. If he was to remain unemotional he could be writing descents that could later be used.

I'm pretty sure you're right, but in this case he definitely let his emotions get the better of him. It's not a dissent, it's a rant which covers pretty much every argument of the anti-same sex side but never fully argues in a coherent way for any of them.

He didn't intend it as a stand-alone dissent. He explicitly deferred abstract constitutional reasoning to Roberts and then made this a personal insult-laden opinion piece. It's basically akin to a polemical newspaper editorial.

There really weren't four separate dissents in that Scalia and Thomas joined in both Roberts' and Alito's dissents. The fundamental conservative schism was between Roberts and Alito. Roberts' basic argument was that the process was running its course at the state level and there was no fundamental conflict at this point that could justify bringing down the federal constitutional hammer. Alito's basic argument was that when constitutionally adjudicating an issue, traditional definitions take precedence over more modern interpretations. Thomas chimed in, unpersuasively in my opinion, that this was a case of the improper constitutional assertion of a positive right rather than the discharge of a violation of a negative right. This was joined by Scalia only.

It would have been interesting if the case was about civil unions rather than marriage, which is where many people thought this was going a few years ago before public opinion started to change dramatically. Of course, the difference is mainly rhetorical. But I think it's clear that it would have been decided by a much wider margin than 5-4, and may have been unanimous. All of the dissents muster the misappropriation of traditional concept of marriage as an argument. But Roberts and, surprisingly, Scalia, explicitly say they actually have little problem with gay couples having the same legal rights as straight couples. Scalia goes a bit farther:

The substance of today's decree is not of immense personal importance to me. The law can recognize as marriage whatever sexual attachments and living arrangements it wishes and can accord them favorable civil consequences, from tax treatment to rights of inheritance.

The distinction may very well still be in play. It wouldn't surprise me if a few conservative states now completely privatize the concept of marriage and define all previous legal functions of marriage as 'civil union'. It would be ironic if the defense of marriage as a civil institution in a few years is primarily a left wing cause.

[Steersman]

<snip>
I should say that the Quran, like all religious literature, is a mix of sublime, absurd and downright violent. ....

My point is that those who make blanket statements like "Quran is an awful book …" are totally ignorant of its contents and its meaning to Muslims. It behoves skeptics to think carefully and try and understand its content before making silly, ignorant statements.

Bolding mine. Making blanket statements about any given subject, especially without knowing what you're talking about is quite daft and a bad habit of most humans.

Having said that, let me ask what is in the Quran that is unique and beneficent to humankind?

Indeed. Though I think the phrase "awful book" is somewhat ambiguous: what percentage of the statements in a book has to be odious or objectionable before it acquires the characterization "awful"? Or "bullshit" as the case may be. Part of the reason why I at least try qualify such statements: maybe even Mein Kampf has a few credible arguments that warrants something other than the categorical "totally awful", maybe it's only "mostly or almost entirely awful".

In any case, while I expect that even the Quran has a few redeeming qualities that allow the use of "mostly awful", I kind of expect that it is still a rather long way from the Bible on the score of such qualities. A relevant portion from Dawkins' The God Delusion:

The King James Bible of 1611 ... includes passages of outstanding literary merit in its own right, for example the Song of Songs, and the sublime Ecclesiastes .... But the main reason the English Bible needs to be part of our education is that it is a major source book for literary culture. The same applies to the legends of the Greek and Roman gods, and we learn about them without being asked to believe in them. Here is a quick list of biblical, or Bible-inspired phrases and sentences that occur commonly in literary or conversational English, from great poetry to hackneyed cliché, from proverb to gossip: [two pages of phrases, 384-385] .... Surely ignorance of the Bible is bound to impoverish one’s appreciation of English literature?

Which I think highlights the more problematic aspects of the Quran: the Pew Forum survey (link provided earlier) notes that even in America, some 50% of the Muslim population still believes that the Quran is literally true. Seems to me to be a rather large and potentially explosive powder-keg that "we" - Western cultures - would do well to excise.

Incidentally, I suggest we have a "Piss on Steersman" test for humanity. If you can not piss on him, you are a machine and need to taken to the scrap heap.

Scrap heap dweller, here. I don't see the point of this initiation rite. Don't like something? Don't read it and don't respond!

:-) Thanks for the vote of confidence: "No, I'm Spartacus!" So to speak.

In the safe knowledge that very few here will understand the lyrics, I'll leave this:

[.youtube]5wU1Dr5Vj_w[/youtube]

A good bet, methinks. :-) At least in my case - couldn't even find a decent translation although I gather it's a rock band of sorts. Amused to note the many English words scattered throughout the Dutch text.