If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

Linus wrote:Let me see if I have this right re: Ogivorbis(sp?) He claims that as a child he was abused/raped and then coerced into abusing/raping someone else? If so isn't it really cunty to call him a rapist?

You haven't got the story correct.
He claims that when he was about 9 he was abused and raped by a scout master.
This makes him a rape victim in that incident and nobody is putting any blame on him over that.
Whoever it was that raped him should be reported to the police.

The problem with Oggie is the fact that he makes another claim about a further incident that happened years later in which no adult was involved.

He said that he was babysitting three girls and that while doing this he, the oldest person there, decided to rape them.
I'm not sure how old he was at that time, perhaps 12 or 13.

So, he was still pretty young and probably damaged by the earlier childhood abuse, but he did say himself that he knew it at the time that it was wrong but he still did it.

That is the incident that is the subject to debate.
The Pharyngulanhas, naturally enough, try to ignore the second incident and instead claim that the pitters are accusing him of being a rapist over the first incident when he was raped by a scout leader (and maybe there was abuse of other scouts occurring at the same time), but nobody is doing that. People from here are saying that the second incident was rape - even if you cannot hold the damaged 12 year old Oggie to the same standard of responsibility that you would hold an adult.
The three girls were rape victims and deserve some consideration for their ordeal.
It is that factor (the fact that the 'think of the victim' narrative should apply to these three girls, if anyone) that is the problem, not that Oggie is an unpunished rapist.

Linus wrote:Let me see if I have this right re: Ogivorbis(sp?) He claims that as a child he was abused/raped and then coerced into abusing/raping someone else? If so isn't it really cunty to call him a rapist?

There's 2 different situations IIRC.

1: Coerced into raping/abusing someone. Yeah we can understand that.

2: He's babysitting 3 girls who are extremely young (don't remember but I wanna say < 10.) Says they were engaging in a "sex play" or something with one of them tied to a chair. Rather than stop it he joins in. It's this scenario that most people take issue with I believe.

Someone can probably explain it better, but there was no coercion in scenario 2.

Dick Strawkins wrote:

Linus wrote:Let me see if I have this right re: Ogivorbis(sp?) He claims that as a child he was abused/raped and then coerced into abusing/raping someone else? If so isn't it really cunty to call him a rapist?

You haven't got the story correct.
He claims that when he was about 9 he was abused and raped by a scout master.
This makes him a rape victim in that incident and nobody is putting any blame on him over that.
Whoever it was that raped him should be reported to the police.

The problem with Oggie is the fact that he makes another claim about a further incident that happened years later in which no adult was involved.

He said that he was babysitting three girls and that while doing this he, the oldest person there, decided to rape them.
I'm not sure how old he was at that time, perhaps 12 or 13.

So, he was still pretty young and probably damaged by the earlier childhood abuse, but he did say himself that he knew it at the time that it was wrong but he still did it.

That is the incident that is the subject to debate.
The Pharyngulanhas, naturally enough, try to ignore the second incident and instead claim that the pitters are accusing him of being a rapist over the first incident when he was raped by a scout leader (and maybe there was abuse of other scouts occurring at the same time), but nobody is doing that. People from here are saying that the second incident was rape - even if you cannot hold the damaged 12 year old Oggie to the same standard of responsibility that you would hold an adult.
The three girls were rape victims and deserve some consideration for their ordeal.
It is that factor (the fact that the 'think of the victim' narrative should apply to these three girls, if anyone) that is the problem, not that Oggie is an unpunished rapist.

Furthermore...

paraphrase from pharyngula (but not far off) wrote: Oggie we love you, you can babysit my kids.

meanwhile...

children of the horde wrote:DAD??!? MOM!??? DIDN'T YOU READ WHAT HE SAID!?!

Just passin by to drop off this test: Just suppose this was OB?

[youtube]BzB-2MP6638[/youtube]




Is there a gap between how you think you should feel and your immediate reaction?







(bonus points if you Imagine it was your granny ... cause there is no way you going to swing Zvan around that way ... also I think there is some profound moral viewpoint in here somewhere but fuck me if I can articulate it)

AndrewV69 wrote:Just passin by to drop off this test: Just suppose this was OB?

[youtube]BzB-2MP6638[/youtube]

Is there a gap between how you think you should feel and your immediate reaction?

(bonus points if you Imagine it was your granny ... cause there is no way you going to swing Zvan around that way ... also I think there is some profound moral viewpoint in here somewhere but fuck me if I can articulate it)

YT is telling me it was removed for being "abusive". Can you post that at videobam or somewhere else or describe its contents?

AndrewV69 wrote:Just passin by to drop off this test: Just suppose this was OB?

[youtube]BzB-2MP6638[/youtube]




Is there a gap between how you think you should feel and your immediate reaction?








(bonus points if you Imagine it was your granny ... cause there is no way you going to swing Zvan around that way ... also I think there is some profound moral viewpoint in here somewhere but fuck me if I can articulate it)

Video still here ATM http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news ... et-3377078

Oh I had the Oggie story wrong then. Thanks for clarifying.

zenbabe wrote:

Brive1987 wrote:Well it's 6.30am and I'm sure PZ still has sometime before he fully disentangles from his sheets ....

Nonetheless this is the "as is" MM freezepage.

At long last the horde admits Oggie needs meatspace professional help. It comes across strongly though, that the help is for his pain and suffering. Not because they believe he raped little girls.

Progress comes in small steps.

http://www.freezepage.com/1396783558JDCNNXKNAG

Thank you for the freezepage, or else those of us who work/sleep/do anything other than read the Pharyngula commentaries in the wee hours USA time would have no chance to see the MM's chalk art.

http://thefilmexperience.net/storage/19 ... 4099443247

And btw I like how your avatar keeps morphing :)

No problem. And thanks!

Guestus Aurelius wrote:

CuntajusRationality wrote:

James Caruthers wrote: Oh god...

Some day, we really should lurk the shit out of the lounge and thunderdome, and collect all the "monster within ima badass" stories on the Pitt. For prosperity.

Although not quite as dramatic as one might prefer, Jason Thibeault did tell the following fight story in his post about being an allegedly falsely accused rapist. I suspect this story is as close to the monster-within as this little twerp has ever experienced.

Getting off the bus that day, I was jumped by one of the kids that got off at my stop. I didn’t know why it had happened, but I fought back for every pound of my scrawny frame and battled the asshole to a stalemate (with the help of another, older kid, who kept the inevitable pile-ons from joining in while we wrestled). A car approached and the event broke up when the driver stopped and threatened to get out and drag us all to the cops or worse, our parents — as though this random guy actually knew who any of us was. At least, he didn’t know me.

This wasn’t terribly manly of me, managing only barely to fight off an attacker and only because of two intercedents. But it snapped me back out of my daze. I didn’t know what was going on until the next day, when I discovered that the rumor was spreading that I had raped my then-ex girlfriend.

One thing that confuses me about this story—the "asshole" who "jumped" him was just "believing the victim," right? Presumably he crossed the line by harming Thimbledick physically, but by SJW standards he was quite right to do something to make Thimbledick's life significantly worse. I mean, Thimbledick was accused of rape, and therefore he was obviously a rapist. Perhaps the "asshole" should instead have sent letters about the rape to local and regional newspapers along with Thimbledick's name, picture, address, and telephone number. That way the "asshole" could rightly have made Thimbledick suffer in every non-physical way imaginable while simultaneously warning everybody to stay away from Thimbledick.

Expecting Tiddlyboo to understand the ramifications of what he's on about is like expecting a dog to do multivariable calculus. In Elvish.

Of course he doesn't understand the limitations and problems of his philosophy, even thought it has caused him to be assaulted. Nor shall he ever.

AndrewV69 wrote:

AndrewV69 wrote:Just passin by to drop off this test: Just suppose this was OB?

[youtube]BzB-2MP6638[/youtube]


Is there a gap between how you think you should feel and your immediate reaction?

(bonus points if you Imagine it was your granny ... cause there is no way you going to swing Zvan around that way ... also I think there is some profound moral viewpoint in here somewhere but fuck me if I can articulate it)

Video still here ATM http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news ... et-3377078

Ah. I saw that earlier and almost immediately turned it off because it was fucked up shit, so I'm going to say there was no gap for me at least.

I do think the video capture of the woman does make it seem like she is a character from McDonaldland and that might explain the YT takedown.

AndrewV69 wrote:

AndrewV69 wrote:Just passin by to drop off this test: Just suppose this was OB?

[youtube]BzB-2MP6638[/youtube]




Is there a gap between how you think you should feel and your immediate reaction?








(bonus points if you Imagine it was your granny ... cause there is no way you going to swing Zvan around that way ... also I think there is some profound moral viewpoint in here somewhere but fuck me if I can articulate it)

Video still here ATM http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news ... et-3377078

Context may matter...

1) If these are OB's acquaintances or family, it's funny. Perhaps an apology / gift is in order.
2a*) If this is random, the video is funny, but the actions are illegal and they should be charged with some minor crime. She wasn't harmed, but she was violated.
2b) If she's ever fucked with again, the penalty should escalate with each occurrence.

*It's nobody's fault that her version of terror is right out of a cartoon.

Skep tickle wrote:

welch wrote:

Brive1987 wrote:Where does PZ say Thunderdome is "lightly" moderated?

The side bar still has: The [Thunderdome]: no-holds-barred unmoderated chaos

The current threads intro states:

[Thunderdome]
Open Thread by PZ Myers

This is Thunderdome, the unmoderated open thread on Pharyngula. Say what you want, how you want.
Status: UNMODERATED; Previous thread

In the "commenting rules". Link somewhere above. Depends on which version you take as authoritative.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/rules/

http://i.imgur.com/7BzD9Ye.png?1

It's always in the god-damned fine print.

Really? wrote:

Skep tickle wrote:Ooops! The next talk will be starting late, it seems:

(scheduled for 1:30pm central, 11:30am my time stamp)

On another note, anyone notice something the speakers on the one "Tech" panel held at "Skeptech con" seem to have in common?

(I'm only posting so much because I'm putting off writing a paper I gotta do. Now, gotta stop procrastinating. 'Later.)

That's strange. The audience members at Skeptech get microphones?

I was going to say they are all white men, until I noticed OB (second from right). So I guess it's just that they are white?

Is it that their shoulders are all slumped forward as though their hands are in their laps cupping their junk?

Really? wrote:

Linus wrote:Let me see if I have this right re: Ogivorbis(sp?) He claims that as a child he was abused/raped and then coerced into abusing/raping someone else? If so isn't it really cunty to call him a rapist?

Ogvorbis was only coerced on the first one. He says that he later raped a couple of girls he was babysitting and KNEW IT WAS WRONG.

Most of us agree with you; if Ogvorbis were raped as a child, then his guilt is someone complicated. But here's the thing: we live in a call-out culture in which it's a NECESSITY to repeat third-hand accusations of serious crimes. What do you do when someone tosses you a grenade? Do you give it pouncetugs or do you cast it away?

If Oggy's victims had counseling decades ago, their lives might be better. If Oggy had gotten counseling after being apparently raped, he might not have raped. THe SJW wants to shine a light on so many facets of "rape culture," but refuse to even acknowledge that they might want to add a little bit of "please go to therapy and turn yourself in" to their Oggy pouncehugs.

The sad part is that one of the FtB crowd did have the sense to suggest just that; some person named Chas suggested that what Oggy needs is professional help rather than airing his dirty stories in the comments section of a drama blog.

The comment was removed and Chas was promptly shouted down for the heresy with such charitable and reasonable responses as:

Dalillama, Schmott Guy
4 April 2014 at 10:51 pm (UTC -5)

Chas
More friendly advice from the king of NOT FUCKING HELPING, eh? We have found yet another topic on which the best thing you can do is SHUT THE FUCK UP.

SallyStrange
5 April 2014 at 3:41 pm (UTC -5)

Why is Chas not banned after that display of bullying? Seriously.

Seven of Mine, formerly piegasm
5 April 2014 at 9:43 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Chas if Ogvorbis takes comfort from the reassurance he gets from people here, who the fuck are you to tell him he doesn’t need that? Who the fuck are you to tell him he needs to seek therapy according to your timeline? Who the fuck are you to dictate the right way to cope with one’s abuse? That is of course leaving aside the asinine false dichotomy that he is necessarily seeking help here instead of seeking therapy.

But hey, giving Ogvorbis credit for being able to figure out what’s best for himself is secondary to Chas getting another opportunity to be a supercilious fucking asshole. You are vile.

And then last night the horde support real life support for him.

It's all about 'kill the pig'

Wankers.

Yes, don't bully confessed child rapists, focus on bullying those who some third party claimed touched them inappropriately, maybe somehow, a few times. That's where we need to focus our efforts. How can we ever change society if we don't start with ambiguous he said / she said cases and create a big toxic cesspool of opinion and tribalism before reason?

Kind of reminds me of when that Hugo Schwyzer admitted he'd been bullshitting the feminists for years, just telling them what they wanted to hear and even exploiting several women through this connection, because he could.

The uproar was.. mild. He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out. Just like Oggy doesn't need help, just time to check his privileges.

Whatever else may be going on in her life, Karen Stollznow knows her stuff & is doing actual investigation & scholarship on stuff applicable to the A/S movement; see (well, listen to) the interview linked at the page below:

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... s-america/

(The link was posted here in the past page or two; just listened to it)

Crabman wrote:Yes, don't bully confessed child rapists, focus on bullying those who some third party claimed touched them inappropriately, maybe somehow, a few times. That's where we need to focus our efforts. How can we ever change society if we don't start with ambiguous he said / she said cases and create a big toxic cesspool of opinion and tribalism before reason?

Kind of reminds me of when that Hugo Schwyzer admitted he'd been bullshitting the feminists for years, just telling them what they wanted to hear and even exploiting several women through this connection, because he could.

The uproar was.. mild. He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out. Just like Oggy doesn't need help, just time to check his privileges.

Mild? I didn't see it that way.

Linus wrote:

Crabman wrote:Yes, don't bully confessed child rapists, focus on bullying those who some third party claimed touched them inappropriately, maybe somehow, a few times. That's where we need to focus our efforts. How can we ever change society if we don't start with ambiguous he said / she said cases and create a big toxic cesspool of opinion and tribalism before reason?

Kind of reminds me of when that Hugo Schwyzer admitted he'd been bullshitting the feminists for years, just telling them what they wanted to hear and even exploiting several women through this connection, because he could.

The uproar was.. mild. He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out. Just like Oggy doesn't need help, just time to check his privileges.

Mild? I didn't see it that way.

Remember, he was already getting an awful lot of hate from certain feminists before he confessed to being a phony. His breakdown was so pathetic that it hardly seemed necessary to make pile on more heat.

Linus wrote:

Crabman wrote:Yes, don't bully confessed child rapists, focus on bullying those who some third party claimed touched them inappropriately, maybe somehow, a few times. That's where we need to focus our efforts. How can we ever change society if we don't start with ambiguous he said / she said cases and create a big toxic cesspool of opinion and tribalism before reason?

Kind of reminds me of when that Hugo Schwyzer admitted he'd been bullshitting the feminists for years, just telling them what they wanted to hear and even exploiting several women through this connection, because he could.

The uproar was.. mild. He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out. Just like Oggy doesn't need help, just time to check his privileges.

Mild? I didn't see it that way.

Here's my take.

The blowback was somewhat harsh on HIM. (But by no means as harsh as it would have been had Schwyzer been an "MRA")

The big problem is that none of Schwyzer's critics seem to realize that HS indicates that THE WHOLE FIELD IS BULLSHIT. HS was able to become a figurehead of the movement...after skimming a women's studies book and just telling people what they want to hear. And getting a circumcision to apologize for the sins of men. And banging about a couple dozen of his students along the way.

There's really no way that a person could skim an astrophysics textbook and then make up what he needs to teach classes in the subject. But that's not a problem for Women's Studies.

Crabman wrote:Yes, don't bully confessed child rapists, focus on bullying those who some third party claimed touched them inappropriately, maybe somehow, a few times. That's where we need to focus our efforts. How can we ever change society if we don't start with ambiguous he said / she said cases and create a big toxic cesspool of opinion and tribalism before reason?

Kind of reminds me of when that Hugo Schwyzer admitted he'd been bullshitting the feminists for years, just telling them what they wanted to hear and even exploiting several women through this connection, because he could.

The uproar was.. mild. He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out. Just like Oggy doesn't need help, just time to check his privileges.

The sad thing is, chas is actually trying to do the thing that would actually help Oggie. But heaven forbid you suggest DOING something instead of crying in your nest like a squab.

Linus wrote:

Crabman wrote:Yes, don't bully confessed child rapists, focus on bullying those who some third party claimed touched them inappropriately, maybe somehow, a few times. That's where we need to focus our efforts. How can we ever change society if we don't start with ambiguous he said / she said cases and create a big toxic cesspool of opinion and tribalism before reason?

Kind of reminds me of when that Hugo Schwyzer admitted he'd been bullshitting the feminists for years, just telling them what they wanted to hear and even exploiting several women through this connection, because he could.

The uproar was.. mild. He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out. Just like Oggy doesn't need help, just time to check his privileges.

Mild? I didn't see it that way.

To echo Really? name any other field that would be so completely taken in by one of their professors, then revealed to be gaming and hoaxing them, that would excoriate that professor and never examine what was wrong with themselves and their methods that they could be taken in so?

Even now, when feminists focus in on evil Hugo, they miss how feminists, feminist theory, enabled Hugo, ignored men and women that told them Hugo was a fraud, and even put down their own feminists who criticized Hugo from way back.

CuntajusRationality wrote:

Really? wrote:

Linus wrote:Let me see if I have this right re: Ogivorbis(sp?) He claims that as a child he was abused/raped and then coerced into abusing/raping someone else? If so isn't it really cunty to call him a rapist?

Ogvorbis was only coerced on the first one. He says that he later raped a couple of girls he was babysitting and KNEW IT WAS WRONG.

Most of us agree with you; if Ogvorbis were raped as a child, then his guilt is someone complicated. But here's the thing: we live in a call-out culture in which it's a NECESSITY to repeat third-hand accusations of serious crimes. What do you do when someone tosses you a grenade? Do you give it pouncetugs or do you cast it away?

If Oggy's victims had counseling decades ago, their lives might be better. If Oggy had gotten counseling after being apparently raped, he might not have raped. THe SJW wants to shine a light on so many facets of "rape culture," but refuse to even acknowledge that they might want to add a little bit of "please go to therapy and turn yourself in" to their Oggy pouncehugs.

The sad part is that one of the FtB crowd did have the sense to suggest just that; some person named Chas suggested that what Oggy needs is professional help rather than airing his dirty stories in the comments section of a drama blog.

The comment was removed and Chas was promptly shouted down for the heresy with such charitable and reasonable responses as:

Dalillama, Schmott Guy
4 April 2014 at 10:51 pm (UTC -5)

Chas
More friendly advice from the king of NOT FUCKING HELPING, eh? We have found yet another topic on which the best thing you can do is SHUT THE FUCK UP.

SallyStrange
5 April 2014 at 3:41 pm (UTC -5)

Why is Chas not banned after that display of bullying? Seriously.

Seven of Mine, formerly piegasm
5 April 2014 at 9:43 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Chas if Ogvorbis takes comfort from the reassurance he gets from people here, who the fuck are you to tell him he doesn’t need that? Who the fuck are you to tell him he needs to seek therapy according to your timeline? Who the fuck are you to dictate the right way to cope with one’s abuse? That is of course leaving aside the asinine false dichotomy that he is necessarily seeking help here instead of seeking therapy.

But hey, giving Ogvorbis credit for being able to figure out what’s best for himself is secondary to Chas getting another opportunity to be a supercilious fucking asshole. You are vile.

This is Chas talking to the horde at pharyngula: (wait for it)

Linus wrote:

Linus wrote:

Crabman wrote:Yes, don't bully confessed child rapists, focus on bullying those who some third party claimed touched them inappropriately, maybe somehow, a few times. That's where we need to focus our efforts. How can we ever change society if we don't start with ambiguous he said / she said cases and create a big toxic cesspool of opinion and tribalism before reason?

Kind of reminds me of when that Hugo Schwyzer admitted he'd been bullshitting the feminists for years, just telling them what they wanted to hear and even exploiting several women through this connection, because he could.

The uproar was.. mild. He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out. Just like Oggy doesn't need help, just time to check his privileges.

Mild? I didn't see it that way.

Remember, he was already getting an awful lot of hate from certain feminists before he confessed to being a phony. His breakdown was so pathetic that it hardly seemed necessary to make pile on more heat.

I think it was "relatively" mild. That may not be the best word..."Surprisingly"?

Still not perfect, but I mean that Crabman's comments ring true to me: that the SJWs and WRAs felt that "He'd been sort of useful after all, and attacking him harshly would only shine a spotlight on how fucking stupid you were to be fooled, so Hugo is just misguided and needs to work things out".

ack... slow preview fail.

FFS. LSUOMA FIX THIS SHIT.

CuntajusRationality wrote:

Really? wrote:

Linus wrote:Let me see if I have this right re: Ogivorbis(sp?) He claims that as a child he was abused/raped and then coerced into abusing/raping someone else? If so isn't it really cunty to call him a rapist?

Ogvorbis was only coerced on the first one. He says that he later raped a couple of girls he was babysitting and KNEW IT WAS WRONG.

Most of us agree with you; if Ogvorbis were raped as a child, then his guilt is someone complicated. But here's the thing: we live in a call-out culture in which it's a NECESSITY to repeat third-hand accusations of serious crimes. What do you do when someone tosses you a grenade? Do you give it pouncetugs or do you cast it away?

If Oggy's victims had counseling decades ago, their lives might be better. If Oggy had gotten counseling after being apparently raped, he might not have raped. THe SJW wants to shine a light on so many facets of "rape culture," but refuse to even acknowledge that they might want to add a little bit of "please go to therapy and turn yourself in" to their Oggy pouncehugs.

The sad part is that one of the FtB crowd did have the sense to suggest just that; some person named Chas suggested that what Oggy needs is professional help rather than airing his dirty stories in the comments section of a drama blog.

The comment was removed and Chas was promptly shouted down for the heresy with such charitable and reasonable responses as:

Dalillama, Schmott Guy
4 April 2014 at 10:51 pm (UTC -5)

Chas
More friendly advice from the king of NOT FUCKING HELPING, eh? We have found yet another topic on which the best thing you can do is SHUT THE FUCK UP.

SallyStrange
5 April 2014 at 3:41 pm (UTC -5)

Why is Chas not banned after that display of bullying? Seriously.

Seven of Mine, formerly piegasm
5 April 2014 at 9:43 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment

Chas if Ogvorbis takes comfort from the reassurance he gets from people here, who the fuck are you to tell him he doesn’t need that? Who the fuck are you to tell him he needs to seek therapy according to your timeline? Who the fuck are you to dictate the right way to cope with one’s abuse? That is of course leaving aside the asinine false dichotomy that he is necessarily seeking help here instead of seeking therapy.

But hey, giving Ogvorbis credit for being able to figure out what’s best for himself is secondary to Chas getting another opportunity to be a supercilious fucking asshole. You are vile.

This is Chas talking to the horde at pharyngula: (wait for it)



FIXED

Whoa - Peez has finally been moved to Pharyngulate a poll once more. Here's the mighty deficit he wants his 'horde' to overcome:

Do you agree with Eric Pickles’ comments?

Yes, Britain is a Christian nation 50.08%
No, Britain is a secular country and religious beliefs should be kept private 49.92%

Go forth, hordelings, and demonstrate how uncowed you are by such a chasm!

JacquesCuze wrote:
To echo Really? name any other field that would be so completely taken in by one of their professors, then revealed to be gaming and hoaxing them, that would excoriate that professor and never examine what was wrong with themselves and their methods that they could be taken in so?

Even now, when feminists focus in on evil Hugo, they miss how feminists, feminist theory, enabled Hugo, ignored men and women that told them Hugo was a fraud, and even put down their own feminists who criticized Hugo from way back.

One of the problems with academic feminism is that it is unfalsifiable. Like theology, there is no way of telling whether any of the claims is true or untrue - leading to the 'experts' like Schwyzer, simply making things up as they go along.

Just look at this piece of reasoning from Schwyzer in which he explains which words you shouldn't use and why:

When I talk to my women's studies classes about the origin and meaning of these gender-based insults, many of them are stunned. (You'd be amazed how few understand that "suck" is derived from "cocksucker", and thus to say something or someone "sucks" is to use anti-gay/anti-woman language. They are also stunned that "asshole" is also anti-gay, misogynistic speak; "asshole" is invariably only used for men, despite the fact that women also possess this part of the anatomy -- it is used to refer to men who allow themselves to be penetrated like women.) What they want to know, of course, is when and how one can continue to use these words without perpetuating gender violence.

What an asshole!

*Sigh*

How will we ever defeat the baboons? Their powers of logical argument are simply too strong.

Just look at Meyers's latest takedown of some religious politician. Astounding.

http://i.imgur.com/rwa2UjA.png

:cdc: :bjarte:

Dick Strawkins wrote:

JacquesCuze wrote:
To echo Really? name any other field that would be so completely taken in by one of their professors, then revealed to be gaming and hoaxing them, that would excoriate that professor and never examine what was wrong with themselves and their methods that they could be taken in so?

Even now, when feminists focus in on evil Hugo, they miss how feminists, feminist theory, enabled Hugo, ignored men and women that told them Hugo was a fraud, and even put down their own feminists who criticized Hugo from way back.

One of the problems with academic feminism is that it is unfalsifiable. Like theology, there is no way of telling whether any of the claims is true or untrue - leading to the 'experts' like Schwyzer, simply making things up as they go along.

Just look at this piece of reasoning from Schwyzer in which he explains which words you shouldn't use and why:

When I talk to my women's studies classes about the origin and meaning of these gender-based insults, many of them are stunned. (You'd be amazed how few understand that "suck" is derived from "cocksucker", and thus to say something or someone "sucks" is to use anti-gay/anti-woman language. They are also stunned that "asshole" is also anti-gay, misogynistic speak; "asshole" is invariably only used for men, despite the fact that women also possess this part of the anatomy -- it is used to refer to men who allow themselves to be penetrated like women.) What they want to know, of course, is when and how one can continue to use these words without perpetuating gender violence.

What an asshole!

Since I've never taken a course in feminism, this is pure naivete and speculation on my part, but I do wonder how much feminist research is conducted (or turned in for a grade) on the order of:

In this research we examined social structure X to determine the effects of the Patriarchy on X

That later came to the conclusion

After extensive study of X, we conclude the Patriarchy had no role in the formation of X or the social maintenance of X.

And when I say I do wonder, I mean, no paper was ever turned in that said that.

Tigzy wrote:Whoa - Peez has finally been moved to Pharyngulate a poll once more. Here's the mighty deficit he wants his 'horde' to overcome:

Do you agree with Eric Pickles’ comments?

Yes, Britain is a Christian nation 50.08%
No, Britain is a secular country and religious beliefs should be kept private 49.92%

Go forth, hordelings, and demonstrate how uncowed you are by such a chasm!

I am suffering PTSD following your ninja'ing. Please use your edit button to delete your post immediately, otherwise I shall instruct my lawyers (Wankstein and Cuntberg) to begin proceedings against you.

Speaking of desperate Pharyngula posts, just look at the latest:

http://i.imgur.com/CUGIxjr.jpg

Dana's solution is so simple and brilliant that Peezus can't see any downside to it.

So then, she's come up with a solution that will end the abortion problem.
Fantastic!

What is it?

Apparently it's the compulsory sterilization of all males (after they've stored a few vials of sperm in a deep freeze, for future planned breeding puposes.)

I guess this kind of brave new world would cut down on the need for abortions by eliminating accidental pregnancies but it wouldn't cut out cases where the woman simply changes her mind after she becomes pregnant. It wouldn't cut out the need in cases where the there is a fetal abnormality. Or where the woman experiences mental health issues due to the pregnancy. Or cases of ectopic pregnancy, infection, diabetes, preeclampsia or other medical emergency.

So, major biology fail for the professor from Minessota.

At least he didn't make a social justice fail.

I’m thinking we could also make it a ritual of passage into manhood. You aren’t really a man until you’ve had The Procedure.

Ooops.
So you can't be a man unless you've stored some sperm samples and had a vasectomy?

So female to male transexuals cannot, therefore, be men? :doh:

Bad SJW, Peezus.
:naughty:

JacquesCuze wrote:

Dick Strawkins wrote:

JacquesCuze wrote:
To echo Really? name any other field that would be so completely taken in by one of their professors, then revealed to be gaming and hoaxing them, that would excoriate that professor and never examine what was wrong with themselves and their methods that they could be taken in so?

Even now, when feminists focus in on evil Hugo, they miss how feminists, feminist theory, enabled Hugo, ignored men and women that told them Hugo was a fraud, and even put down their own feminists who criticized Hugo from way back.

One of the problems with academic feminism is that it is unfalsifiable. Like theology, there is no way of telling whether any of the claims is true or untrue - leading to the 'experts' like Schwyzer, simply making things up as they go along.

Just look at this piece of reasoning from Schwyzer in which he explains which words you shouldn't use and why:

When I talk to my women's studies classes about the origin and meaning of these gender-based insults, many of them are stunned. (You'd be amazed how few understand that "suck" is derived from "cocksucker", and thus to say something or someone "sucks" is to use anti-gay/anti-woman language. They are also stunned that "asshole" is also anti-gay, misogynistic speak; "asshole" is invariably only used for men, despite the fact that women also possess this part of the anatomy -- it is used to refer to men who allow themselves to be penetrated like women.) What they want to know, of course, is when and how one can continue to use these words without perpetuating gender violence.

What an asshole!

Since I've never taken a course in feminism, this is pure naivete and speculation on my part, but I do wonder how much feminist research is conducted (or turned in for a grade) on the order of:

In this research we examined social structure X to determine the effects of the Patriarchy on X

That later came to the conclusion

After extensive study of X, we conclude the Patriarchy had no role in the formation of X or the social maintenance of X.

And when I say I do wonder, I mean, no paper was ever turned in that said that.

That's a trick question, 'cause once you accept the underlying premise of "patriarchy" all else follows.

Dick Strawkins wrote: So, major biology fail for the professor from Minessota.

At least he didn't make a social justice fail.

I’m thinking we could also make it a ritual of passage into manhood. You aren’t really a man until you’ve had The Procedure.

Ooops.
So you can't be a man unless you've stored some sperm samples and had a vasectomy?

So female to male transexuals cannot, therefore, be men? :doh:

Bad SJW, Peezus.
:naughty:

Big plus, you can now go a rapin without worrying of you got them pregnant too!!!!!! #facepalm

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:

Tigzy wrote:Whoa - Peez has finally been moved to Pharyngulate a poll once more. Here's the mighty deficit he wants his 'horde' to overcome:

Do you agree with Eric Pickles’ comments?

Yes, Britain is a Christian nation 50.08%
No, Britain is a secular country and religious beliefs should be kept private 49.92%

Go forth, hordelings, and demonstrate how uncowed you are by such a chasm!

I am suffering PTSD following your ninja'ing. Please use your edit button to delete your post immediately, otherwise I shall instruct my lawyers (Wankstein and Cuntberg) to begin proceedings against you.

Oh so NOW you care about the ethics of ninj'ing?

:violin:

:popcorn:

I assume then, that PZ has had the procedure? Canuck? Surely some of these alleged-false rapists have done their duty and gotten the cut for the team?

Re Oggie,

I believe when I went back and looked, his age when 'raping' was actually younger than I'd anticipated (I had pegged it at 12 or 13 but no.) Also the rape itself came across as ambiguous in nature: pre-existing game between the three girls, no posthoc physical evidence or signs of duress, they stopped for lunch with the parents, it went on all day. However I'm also sure the activities broke 'typical' boundaries of 'doctors/nurses' - Oggie said he replicated his own assaulter's actions.

But of the couple of shades of grey, Oggie chose black. He aggressively defined the experience as rape to maximise his own broken status. He demanded the horde accept him as a rape-culture shaped monster who had returned, albeit diminished, to the light. A bloodied martyr to the cause.

And this they did.

Oggie is an idiot. Anyone who publicly self-identifies as a child rapist should expect to be clubbed like a baby seal.

And I'm happy to take him at his word.

But I reckon the the "real" world takeouts are mostly ideological per what I wrote at Nugents in the context of the differing treatment handed out to Dawkins when he 'under-played' his own abuse. ("Guy" below is the redacted form of Ogvorbis).

..............

* It demonstrates the way the SJ advocates manipulate even in your face evidence to suite their narrative – you should see the comments on the Dawkins thread at PZs as we speak. We have the guys words but there are some *very* alternative realities being spun.

* It demonstrates how SJ ideology is tribal. Richard Dawkins is supposedly in trouble because of his privilege – old, white, male and well off. Yet the other guy is white and male – but is accorded victim status and is celebrated. The real difference is one accepts SJ dogma and within this construct has asked for group forgiveness and the other (RD) hasn’t .

* it demonstrates a more base level of hypocrisy. The guy literally self describes his actions as wilful, self aware “rape”. Literally. Yet he is embraced by the community which is ostensibly the great protector of rape victims everywhere. No ifs, no demands for contrition or victim support or anything that acknowledges the assault. One commentator even requested his services for babysitting (I kid you not). Meanwhile privilege based ‘rapists’ and ‘rape enablers’ are excoriated, treated as ideological piñatas.

JacquesCuze wrote:

Dick Strawkins wrote:

JacquesCuze wrote:
To echo Really? name any other field that would be so completely taken in by one of their professors, then revealed to be gaming and hoaxing them, that would excoriate that professor and never examine what was wrong with themselves and their methods that they could be taken in so?

Even now, when feminists focus in on evil Hugo, they miss how feminists, feminist theory, enabled Hugo, ignored men and women that told them Hugo was a fraud, and even put down their own feminists who criticized Hugo from way back.

One of the problems with academic feminism is that it is unfalsifiable. Like theology, there is no way of telling whether any of the claims is true or untrue - leading to the 'experts' like Schwyzer, simply making things up as they go along.

Just look at this piece of reasoning from Schwyzer in which he explains which words you shouldn't use and why:

When I talk to my women's studies classes about the origin and meaning of these gender-based insults, many of them are stunned. (You'd be amazed how few understand that "suck" is derived from "cocksucker", and thus to say something or someone "sucks" is to use anti-gay/anti-woman language. They are also stunned that "asshole" is also anti-gay, misogynistic speak; "asshole" is invariably only used for men, despite the fact that women also possess this part of the anatomy -- it is used to refer to men who allow themselves to be penetrated like women.) What they want to know, of course, is when and how one can continue to use these words without perpetuating gender violence.

What an asshole!

Since I've never taken a course in feminism, this is pure naivete and speculation on my part, but I do wonder how much feminist research is conducted (or turned in for a grade) on the order of:

In this research we examined social structure X to determine the effects of the Patriarchy on X

That later came to the conclusion

After extensive study of X, we conclude the Patriarchy had no role in the formation of X or the social maintenance of X.

And when I say I do wonder, I mean, no paper was ever turned in that said that.

You might be surprised, but a lot of critical pedagogy and feminist theory consists of descriptions of personal experiences.

So you take a class about teaching and you expect to learn to teach. Instead, you read a thousand essays that are all variations on the same theme:

"I am a proud Mestizo...Mestizo blood flows through my veins. I understand the world around me, but those I encounter can't understand what I've been through..."

Brive1987 wrote:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Go forth, hordelings, and demonstrate how uncowed you are by such a chasm!

I am suffering PTSD following your ninja'ing. Please use your edit button to delete your post immediately, otherwise I shall instruct my lawyers (Wankstein and Cuntberg) to begin proceedings against you.

Oh so NOW you care about the ethics of ninj'ing?

:violin:

:popcorn:[/quote]

Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

I suspect there won't be sessions on being one of the cool kids online, or on moderating your blog comments, at TAM2014.

Conference theme isn't about feminism, either, go figure:

http://i.imgur.com/NvtYM5n.png?1

Radford's legal fund has reached its 25% target with 24 days to go.

Given the Shermer funding fiasco, he really should give it "official" status, if not enthusiastic consent.

If Radford really has more photos, he should set them up as Patreon rewards for achieved thresholds ......

Always think outside the box :)

http://www.rockethub.com/projects/41435 ... tivity-tab

Skep tickle wrote:I suspect there won't be sessions on being one of the cool kids online, or on moderating your blog comments, at TAM2014.

Conference theme isn't about feminism, either, go figure:

http://i.imgur.com/NvtYM5n.png?1

The skeptech twitter feed was fucking hilarious. Those presentations must have SUCKED.



IDIOT 1: don't use "password" as your password #skeptech

IDIOT 2: Great advice: Use different passwords for each web site account you have #skeptech

MYKERU: PZ'S DRUNK FROM LICKING WATSON'S TWAT JUICE

IDIOT 3: #skeptech Internet security panel: "Don't tell your passwords to other people."

Skep tickle wrote:I suspect there won't be sessions on being one of the cool kids online, or on moderating your blog comments, at TAM2014.

Conference theme isn't about feminism, either, go figure:

http://i.imgur.com/NvtYM5n.png?1

Ironically, a talk debunking some dodgy evolutionary psychology claims - similar to Watson's notorious Skepticon effort, except done properly and tackling just the bad parts of evo psych rather than casting out the entire discipline - would fit in with this theme.

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

assrocket.

8-)

:cdc:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

As half an Ogvorbis, I've had at least one girl, which is more than you've ever stuck your stumpy "mushroom" in.

Your apology to me may have been signed in turd, but that more than you'll ever get from me.

:popcorn:

Dick Strawkins wrote:

JacquesCuze wrote:
To echo Really? name any other field that would be so completely taken in by one of their professors, then revealed to be gaming and hoaxing them, that would excoriate that professor and never examine what was wrong with themselves and their methods that they could be taken in so?

Even now, when feminists focus in on evil Hugo, they miss how feminists, feminist theory, enabled Hugo, ignored men and women that told them Hugo was a fraud, and even put down their own feminists who criticized Hugo from way back.

One of the problems with academic feminism is that it is unfalsifiable. Like theology, there is no way of telling whether any of the claims is true or untrue - leading to the 'experts' like Schwyzer, simply making things up as they go along.

Just look at this piece of reasoning from Schwyzer in which he explains which words you shouldn't use and why:

When I talk to my women's studies classes about the origin and meaning of these gender-based insults, many of them are stunned. (You'd be amazed how few understand that "suck" is derived from "cocksucker", and thus to say something or someone "sucks" is to use anti-gay/anti-woman language. They are also stunned that "asshole" is also anti-gay, misogynistic speak; "asshole" is invariably only used for men, despite the fact that women also possess this part of the anatomy -- it is used to refer to men who allow themselves to be penetrated like women.) What they want to know, of course, is when and how one can continue to use these words without perpetuating gender violence.

What an asshole!

What a cocksucker! :character-bart:

Dick Strawkins wrote:

Skep tickle wrote:I suspect there won't be sessions on being one of the cool kids online, or on moderating your blog comments, at TAM2014.

Conference theme isn't about feminism, either, go figure:

http://i.imgur.com/NvtYM5n.png?1

Ironically, a talk debunking some dodgy evolutionary psychology claims - similar to Watson's notorious Skepticon effort, except done properly and tackling just the bad parts of evo psych rather than casting out the entire discipline - would fit in with this theme.

Well so would one debunking feminism as a religious cult ... wonder if anyone is brave enough to give that one

Apples wrote:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

assrocket.

8-)

Ugh. Why do all of the rockets need to be phallic shaped? You guys can't even build ONE vagina-shaped rocket?

Really? wrote: You might be surprised, but a lot of critical pedagogy and feminist theory consists of descriptions of personal experiences.

So you take a class about teaching and you expect to learn to teach. Instead, you read a thousand essays that are all variations on the same theme:

"I am a proud Mestizo...Mestizo blood flows through my veins. I understand the world around me, but those I encounter can't understand what I've been through..."

Actually in many ways I admire that.

There are several men's issues (custody abuse, parental alienation, false accusations, rape) where I would like to set up well funded websites that could be expected to stay around for more than six months, with staff and marketing budget, to collect the first person stories of men, captured in text, photos, audio & video of men world wide abused by the system to put a face on what is happening, and to counter feminists who would make claims that these abuses false accusations occur so infrequently we can and should ignore them.

There have been some attempts at this, but the sites rarely stay up for long.

Things should be quicker now.

Apologies for prior slowness.

Dick Strawkins wrote:Speaking of desperate Pharyngula posts, just look at the latest:

http://i.imgur.com/CUGIxjr.jpg

Dana's solution is so simple and brilliant that Peezus can't see any downside to it.

So then, she's come up with a solution that will end the abortion problem.
Fantastic!

What is it?

Apparently it's the compulsory sterilization of all males (after they've stored a few vials of sperm in a deep freeze, for future planned breeding puposes.)

We could also sterilize all women who are pro-choice. They can donate eggs or adopt if they think they might want to have a child. Will be cheaper than sterilizing all men and preserves bodily autonomy because you can avoid being sterilized by being pro-life. Can't see any downside to it.

:dance: :drool:

Brive1987 wrote::cdc:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

As half an Ogvorbis, I've had at least one girl, which is more than you've ever stuck your stumpy "mushroom" in.

Your apology to me may have been signed in turd, but that more than you'll ever get from me.

:popcorn:

Oh, go fuck a spokesgay with a rusty Nerd, douchejuice. Brive? "Brie" more like, because I can smell your cheesy stink from here.

Lsuoma wrote:Things should be quicker now.

Apologies for prior slowness.

Just like old times again! Long live the Leader!!! :clap: :dance: :dance: :clap:

Lsuoma wrote:Things should be quicker now.

Apologies for prior slowness.

You should be sorry, you assrocket.

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote: Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

For some reason this post really stimulated my funny bone.

:bjarte:

Nay,

:lol:

Really? wrote:

Apples wrote:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

assrocket.

8-)

Ugh. Why do all of the rockets need to be phallic shaped? You guys can't even build ONE vagina-shaped rocket?

Project Orion was sort of boob shaped and utilized a nuclear queef propulsion system. Patriarchy shot it down of course.

Really? wrote:

Apples wrote:

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Oh, here we go again. Way to trigger me you assrocket. I am literally raging with shake right now. Seriously considering tossing my surlies all over your feet, you hetcispat ANIMAL. If you were only half the man Ogvorbis is, you would have one tenth enough honor to admit your mistake and APOLOGIZE.

assrocket.

8-)

Ugh. Why do all of the rockets need to be phallic shaped? You guys can't even build ONE vagina-shaped rocket?

The French, of course, have tried (wait for it).

[youtube]-8MEVVU3bxM[/youtube]

JacquesCuze wrote:

Really? wrote: You might be surprised, but a lot of critical pedagogy and feminist theory consists of descriptions of personal experiences.

So you take a class about teaching and you expect to learn to teach. Instead, you read a thousand essays that are all variations on the same theme:

"I am a proud Mestizo...Mestizo blood flows through my veins. I understand the world around me, but those I encounter can't understand what I've been through..."

Actually in many ways I admire that.

There are several men's issues (custody abuse, parental alienation, false accusations, rape) where I would like to set up well funded websites that could be expected to stay around for more than six months, with staff and marketing budget, to collect the first person stories of men, captured in text, photos, audio & video of men world wide abused by the system to put a face on what is happening, and to counter feminists who would make claims that these abuses false accusations occur so infrequently we can and should ignore them.

There have been some attempts at this, but the sites rarely stay up for long.

No, no. You're giving the literature I'm talking about too much credit. You and I (it seems) would both be fine with gender studies in the sense of actually looking at the biases in the system that keep children away from good fathers and with bad fathers, etc.

The stuff I'm talking about has zero substance.

"I'm a cismale who identifies as a human being. I was born with a penis and have always felt comfortable with it. One day, in sixth grade, I felt some strange feelings in that penis. It was getting hard even though I was thinking about algebra..."

JacquesCuze wrote:There are several men's issues (custody abuse, parental alienation, false accusations, rape) where I would like to set up well funded websites that could be expected to stay around for more than six months, with staff and marketing budget, to collect the first person stories of men, captured in text, photos, audio & video of men world wide abused by the system to put a face on what is happening, and to counter feminists who would make claims that these abuses false accusations occur so infrequently we can and should ignore them.

There have been some attempts at this, but the sites rarely stay up for long.

Just saw this on Quora the other day:

Quora wrote:What is the worst experience you've had with a girl, dating or not?

Mike Leary, Psychotherapist in private practice, Individual-Marital-Parenting-A&D:

I have had two different ones, complete strangers, a couple of years apart accuse me of touching them when I told them the theater had a no texting policy. This was in the middle of the movie.

They started yelling at me so I went to get the manager. They quickly followed, continuing to yell I had put my hands on them.

One got thrown out and the other damn near got me thrown out for life and a felony assault from what the manager said.

They are women who learned how to deflect issues and use the system.

http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-worst- ... ing-or-not#