Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[Steersman]

I twat I twaw a Twatty Tweet
From the Sherminator
I clicked and I clicked again
To see the glorious grey curls of Pinker.

Though lengthy, don't fear
For Pinker is clear
And lucid.
Time flies
Then comes the surprise
When in the second half
Shermer appears
To not rape but to converse.

http://www.skeptic.com/past-lectures/se ... t-century/

:) But as one who is "follicly-challenged" I feel oppressed by those curls (not to mention by his erudition) - maybe I need to tell him to check his privilege .... :-)

[bovarchist]

Quick Pitpoll: How many people here have ever seen or heard of a WWII photograph called Wait For Me Daddy?

[bovarchist]

(yes, this is the photo I asked for the 'shoop of recently)

[John D]

It's been years since I read LOTR but I recall Celeborn being referenced as a really powerful guy, by Gandalf and Elrond, then when you actually meet him, he's a non-entity storywise. He was the clairvoyant though and not Galadriel. They gave her his lines in the movie. It made sense narratively because she was the more integral character.
Where do you guys stand on Tolkein and racism? I've heard he was anti-nazi but his Dunedin have a very nazi like concern about blood purity. Not to mention how all the swarthy people side with the orcs.

I think that Tolkein knew what he was working with. Many ancient stories we very racist and he had this history as a backdrop. The orcs were very much described as a ancient person would describe a Hun or Mongol. But, Tolkein had to have a bunch of bad guys, so he used typical barbaric description for orcs and such. But, remember that the orc were not so much guilty as they were made evil by the power of the rings. At the end of the books the orc are freed and make their own settlements etc. The wise characters of the book explain that the orcs should not be blamed for what they did.

Now.... Tarzan! That is totally fucking racist. Youall should read the original if you haven't yet. They "superiority of the English royalty" stuff is blatant and hilarious! Well worth a read.

citation please for the highlighted parts. The elves were corrupted by Melkor/Morgoth long before the rings were created and the only thing I remember about the end of the orcs were bonfires.

Indeed, this is complicated, but I have extracted this from a letter written by JRRT (Letter 153). Still looking for the part of the book (where I think Gandalf explains how the orcs should be allowed to be free becasue they "can't help what they do."

JRRT: Of course within limits, and of course subject to
certain commands or prohibitions. But if they 'fell', as the Diabolus Morgoth did, and started
making things 'for himself, to be their Lord', these would then 'be', even if Morgoth broke the
supreme ban against making other 'rational' creatures like Elves or Men. They would at least 'be'
real physical realities in the physical world, however evil they might prove, even 'mocking' the
Children of God. They would be Morgoth's greatest Sins, abuses of his highest privilege, and would
be creatures begotten of Sin, and naturally bad. (I nearly wrote 'irredeemably bad'; but that would be
going too far. Because by accepting or tolerating their making – necessary to their actual existence
– even Orcs would become part of the World, which is God's and ultimately good.) But whether
they could have 'souls' or 'spirits' seems a different question; and since in my myth at any rate I do
not conceive of the making of souls or spirits, things of an equal order if not an equal power to the
Valar, as a possible 'delegation', I have represented at least the Orcs as pre-existing real beings on
whom the Dark Lord has exerted the fullness of his power in remodelling and corrupting them, not
making them. That God would 'tolerate' that, seems no worse theology than the toleration of the
calculated dehumanizing of Men by tyrants that goes on today.

[Steersman]

Poetry Slam distracted me quite a little, but I finally finished

PZ Myers' Glass House

in which I contrast Peezus' prudish moralizing, finger-wagging, and slandering of slymepitters, with his own dark, disturbing sexual undercurrents.

Thanks to everyone who helped me source material for it (I've been compiling the damning evidence for a while), and especially Ape+Lust for use of his classic shop of baby Peezus.

Great post Matt. I was tempted to allude to The Caine Mutiny with Bogart as PZ has clearly gone off the deep end with his accusation, somewhat vague, that "Slympitters [are] harassers, misogynists, and rapists". But he hasn't given much cause to grant much in the way of sympathy for his situation - maybe he too needs to take an extended break from the Internet.

[Southern]

Poetry Slam distracted me quite a little, but I finally finished

PZ Myers' Glass House

in which I contrast Peezus' prudish moralizing, finger-wagging, and slandering of slymepitters, with his own dark, disturbing sexual undercurrents.

Thanks to everyone who helped me source material for it (I've been compiling the damning evidence for a while), and especially Ape+Lust for use of his classic shop of baby Peezus.

Holy shit. You reported Myers to the FBI???

That's fuckin hilarious.

I second this. Matt, a job well done. Bravo, sir.

Ironically, I too was 19 when I first kissed. But unlike Myers, 1) it was me-and-her first date; and 2) It wasn't that much of a big deal, really. Had she make me court her for three fucking months without a kiss, I would probably go back to videogames and Magic. Hell, that's exactly what happened two months after, because we grew apart from each other.

[zenbabe]

I twat I twaw a Twatty Tweet
From the Sherminator
I clicked and I clicked again
To see the glorious grey curls of Pinker.

Though lengthy, don't fear
For Pinker is clear
And lucid.
Time flies
Then comes the surprise
When in the second half
Shermer appears
To not rape but to converse.

http://www.skeptic.com/past-lectures/se ... t-century/

:) But as one who is "follicly-challenged" I feel oppressed by those curls (not to mention by his erudition) - maybe I need to tell him to check his privilege .... :-)

It's ok. When Shermer shows up for the second half, the bald spot on his head (and I don't mean that as a euphemism) is clearly visible. And is pretty big, actually. (again, no pun) (ok no, a little pun).

[John D]

This is an interesting quote:

Frodo tells Sam,

“The shadow that bred them can only mock. It cannot make: not real new things
of it own. I don‟t think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them”

But... I really am not sure that I proved my point exactly. I do think that the strong characters favor pity rather than revenge against the orcs. I will keep looking.

[BlueShiftRhino]

This is an interesting quote:

Frodo tells Sam,

“The shadow that bred them can only mock. It cannot make: not real new things
of it own. I don‟t think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them”

Sounds like Samwise is reviewing Butterflies and Wheels to me.

[BlueShiftRhino]

Oops. It was Frodo to Sam. Whatever. Good wine, this.

[Tribble]

...

Since I'm already wasting time on this shit, I may as well throw in a capsule analysis of some characters from the book:

Galadriel: "Tolkien hates wombyn because one of the most powerful characters in the book is a... Oh wait." She doesn't go around kickflipping off of Sauron's head because Tolkien wouldn't have written a "strong femul character" the way Hollywood does. She, more than her husband, is the ruler of the elf city. The tools she gives to the party save their lives. She is a sort of living representation of the past age, when the elves were at the peak of their power and beauty.

AFter Gil-galad, the King of the Elves in Middle Earth, died fighting Sauron, Galadriel was, according to Tolkien: "the mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth."

Celeborn, her husband, was the co-ruler of Lorien. He was also a very powerful, but he doesn't really get developed in any place where most people read. But you find out in "Unfinished Tales" he was Olwe's (one of the Valar) grandson and a kinsman of Thingol.

Arwen: I don't care for the way this character was handled, but whatever man. Tolkien didn't write a Hollywood love story because he wasn't a Hollywood writer, so what we get instead is this romance that's fully-formed before the story even starts, and she's hardly in the book at all except for the end. A feminist might call her a "trophy" because she's an object of desire for Aragorn, but we don't even know this until the wedding day. My problems with this character have more to do with how irrelevant she is in the story until the very end. Oh well.

Well... Yeah. It never bothered me though.

Eowyn: It's fun to watch feminists come up with reasons why this character is sexist. It's clear her father loves her like a son, and culturally at least, she wants to be treated as a "son." What I mean is, Tolkien was a scholar of Beowulf and it's clear the Rohan society has elements of that type of tribal culture. The gender split was more a matter of historical scholarship than "sexism." The most disposable people are sent to war, and women have rarely been considered disposable in any ancient society. Anyway, she defies her father's wishes and goes into war because she loves him and is afraid he'll die. What she accomplishes in the war is the equal of any of the major characters aside from maybe Frodo. She then retires from war and becomes a healer, which is a bit of a strange shift. I don't know if I would call it "sexist," but this move seems out of character for her. I presume she'll be back riding horses and jousting at tournaments once the shock of her father's death wears off.

Uncle. After their parents death, Eowyn and Eomer went to live with Theoden, their uncle.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Poetry Slam distracted me quite a little, but I finally finished

PZ Myers' Glass House

in which I contrast Peezus' prudish moralizing, finger-wagging, and slandering of slymepitters, with his own dark, disturbing sexual undercurrents.

Thanks to everyone who helped me source material for it (I've been compiling the damning evidence for a while), and especially Ape+Lust for use of his classic shop of baby Peezus.

That was a terrific read, thanks.

I'd make one small request for revision though...that you call FreeThoughtBlogs by its proper name. Note the irony of its name by all means, but calling it Thought Free Blogs unadorned, as if that were its real name, makes you seem petty and childish. Just a thought.

But I am petty and childish.

[jet_lagg]

Poetry Slam distracted me quite a little, but I finally finished

PZ Myers' Glass House

in which I contrast Peezus' prudish moralizing, finger-wagging, and slandering of slymepitters, with his own dark, disturbing sexual undercurrents.

Thanks to everyone who helped me source material for it (I've been compiling the damning evidence for a while), and especially Ape+Lust for use of his classic shop of baby Peezus.

That was a terrific read, thanks.

I'd make one small request for revision though...that you call FreeThoughtBlogs by its proper name. Note the irony of its name by all means, but calling it Thought Free Blogs unadorned, as if that were its real name, makes you seem petty and childish. Just a thought.

I'd agree about the naming convention. Language like that seems more suited to the pit, where anything goes.

Great piece though. I don't follow Myers and am sometimes baffled by the amount of vitriol thrown his way. This summarizes the hypocrisy very well and helps me understand why you shitlords can be such dicks :)

[John D]

and here is an in depth discussion on the topic of orcs being pure evil or redeemable.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive/in ... 12881.html

Am informal poll: My daughter thinks the orcs are redeemable and my wife thinks they are not.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Kitty by Racey
[youtube]aLDr5bdAhkc[/youtube]

Mickey by Toni Basil
[youtube]3E-Zrg9CB_Q[/youtube]

Tough call.

I can't believe I was outbid at the last minute on eBay for the four-cd set, "The Best of Toni Basil."

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I don't...

Meyers has a post up about a brand of vibrator. Just, out of nowhere, with no context, no obvious reason, and no fresh insight.

He somehow shoehorns electron microscopes into the post, just to show that he is a scientist and not just a hentai tentacle rape porn mermaind enthusiast. I reckon the last time Meyers got some time on an EM was about 20 years ago.

http://i.imgur.com/nOCf3u1.png

Nerd of Redhead shows that he is down the feminists by talking about "displaying female orgasms":
http://i.imgur.com/5iF6WDJ.png

And someone speaks up to call bullshit on Meyers's...well, whatever he's trying to do with this post:
http://i.imgur.com/LOzopRn.png

[CuntajusRationality]

Short video clip of PZ Myers and Sam Harris from 2009. I was shocked and stunned to see Myers sounding somewhat reasonable and making the case for civility, openness, and having conversations with those who disagree.
:o
[youtube]ilWM7jIEN_k[/youtube]

In the intervening years Myers has become a shadow of his former self, reduced to spreading gossip on his blog and biting at the heels of the likes of Harris. I wonder if that has something to do with why Myers has become a widely-mocked virtual nobody whereas Harris has become a best-selling author, regular contributor to many widely-read newspapers and websites, a guest on popular shows like Colbert, Real Time with Bill Maher, O'Reilly, and a widely respected member of the atheist/skeptical communities.

[ERV]

Oafie feels completely confident in opining on LOTR without apparently ever having read it. Kind of puts her other opinion pieces in perspective, doesn't it?

I dont get the impression she (or others there) have read much of anything. Choosing to be illiterate, while masquerading as Academic Elite.

[James Caruthers]

This is an interesting quote:

Frodo tells Sam,

“The shadow that bred them can only mock. It cannot make: not real new things
of it own. I don‟t think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them”

But... I really am not sure that I proved my point exactly. I do think that the strong characters favor pity rather than revenge against the orcs. I will keep looking.

Frodo has a chance to get revenge on Saruman and forgives him instead. Pity is one of the highest moral qualities in Tolkien's universe, and the most hated by the evil characters like Saruman. One of the marks of Frodo's transformation by the ring (he becomes more like the ancient kings of men and elves) is he takes Gandalf's place as the party's adviser and leader during the Scouring, and he feels pity and extends mercy to Saruman.

I mean, this is fucking Saruman. He used to be more powerful than Gandalf, and now a mere Hobbit holds mastery over his life, and takes pity on him. We are able to see how far Saruman has fallen, and how much Frodo has grown. Tolkien's novel is not explicitly religious, but there are christian themes, and that certain type of Jesus-like pity and mercy are shown as virtues of the righteous.

Had Tolkien written LOTR with a pagan (norse) or even an older christian religion morality, Frodo would have taken Saruman's head off with a single stroke of Sting, mounted it on a pike and paraded it around the Shire.

[John D]

This is an interesting quote:

Frodo tells Sam,

“The shadow that bred them can only mock. It cannot make: not real new things
of it own. I don‟t think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them”

But... I really am not sure that I proved my point exactly. I do think that the strong characters favor pity rather than revenge against the orcs. I will keep looking.

Frodo has a chance to get revenge on Saruman and forgives him instead. Pity is one of the highest moral qualities in Tolkien's universe, and the most hated by the evil characters like Saruman. One of the marks of Frodo's transformation by the ring (he becomes more like the ancient kings of men and elves) is he takes Gandalf's place as the party's adviser and leader during the Scouring, and he feels pity and extends mercy to Saruman.

I mean, this is fucking Saruman. He used to be more powerful than Gandalf, and now a mere Hobbit holds mastery over his life, and takes pity on him. We are able to see how far Saruman has fallen, and how much Frodo has grown. Tolkien's novel is not explicitly religious, but there are christian themes, and that certain type of Jesus-like pity and mercy are shown as virtues of the righteous.

Had Tolkien written LOTR with a pagan (norse) or even an older christian religion morality, Frodo would have taken Saruman's head off with a single stroke of Sting, mounted it on a pike and paraded it around the Shire.

Agreed. And the main thing I disliked about the LOTR movies was how they skipped the best chapter of the WHOLE FUCKING BOOK. The "Souring of the Shire" is the most profound in the whole trilogy. Damn.... so they screwed up some of the most significant messages.

[James Caruthers]

and here is an in depth discussion on the topic of orcs being pure evil or redeemable.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive/in ... 12881.html

Am informal poll: My daughter thinks the orcs are redeemable and my wife thinks they are not.

They are not. This is because Tolkien was a writer and not an historian. Tolkien needed an evil force who could be slaughtered en masse in several places throughout the novel. In the real world, both sides in a war have many good people. That level of moral ambiguity would have been unacceptable to Tolkien, I think. The idea that his good characters would be killing fellow good characters? I think he would have found such a thing repugnant.

Some of the orcs are creations of dark magic, and others are warped and corrupted elves. Unfortunately, they're just not written as particularly nuanced enemies. They're bad because Tolkien needs some bad monsters that Sauron can use to hassle Middle-Earth. The closest we get to moral ambiguity is a few of the gobbos think Sauron is a little TOO evil for their tastes. But they're still evil, their brand of evil is just more oriented towards raiding villages and eating humies.

YMMV, but I spent a good amount of time talking to my Tolkien professor about this. Every novel-even a groundbreaking one-has limitations. Authors have needs.

How fantasy and science fiction authors develop "ideologically-acceptable" baddies is quite a fascinating subject in itself. Some, like GoT, don't attempt to impute any morality to their lead characters beyond self-interest. Warhammer has warp taint (not that kind of taint, Mykeru.) It's a problem every fantasy and science fiction writer has to grapple with.

Ah, for the good old days of "fuck Grendel because he's killing our bros and he's a monster." Nowadays all the kiddies have their "this is human privilege" tumblr blogs and create movies where the wicked witch is wing-raped by a WASP. Maybe we should watch Beowulf from the perspective of Grendel's Mum? Beowulf seems like a white male cisprivileged shitlord to me! :naughty:

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Thanks for all the kind compliments on the blog post.

There was a boy named Paul Myers,
Who ran over a 'possum with his tires.
He said, 'I think I shall fill
'This sexy road kill,'
And thus sated his sexual desires.

[Dornier Pfeil]

This is an interesting quote:

Frodo tells Sam,

“The shadow that bred them can only mock. It cannot make: not real new things
of it own. I don‟t think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them”

But... I really am not sure that I proved my point exactly. I do think that the strong characters favor pity rather than revenge against the orcs. I will keep looking.

That letter you cited is marvelous. Really nice stuff to know about JRRT. It is almost possible to call him a humanist before it's time.

As for the quote about pity you may be looking for, try the first book (FotR) when Frodo and Gandalf have a discussion about Gollum and how it was a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when the chance was available. The lesson to be learned was that it was Bilbo's restraint that guaranteed the Ring would never have a true hold on him. Killing Gollum would have started Bilbo down an irreversible road.

[Dornier Pfeil]

and here is an in depth discussion on the topic of orcs being pure evil or redeemable.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive/in ... 12881.html

Am informal poll: My daughter thinks the orcs are redeemable and my wife thinks they are not.

I tend towards the irredeemable camp. If you want to try you have about 10,000 years of breeding to reverse with your own selective breeding program.

[Dornier Pfeil]

and here is an in depth discussion on the topic of orcs being pure evil or redeemable.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive/in ... 12881.html

Am informal poll: My daughter thinks the orcs are redeemable and my wife thinks they are not.

They are not. This is because Tolkien was a writer and not an historian. Tolkien needed an evil force who could be slaughtered en masse in several places throughout the novel. In the real world, both sides in a war have many good people. That level of moral ambiguity would have been unacceptable to Tolkien, I think. The idea that his good characters would be killing fellow good characters? I think he would have found such a thing repugnant.

...snip...

Is not a classicist a historian of literature.

Everything else though-spot on.

[Dornier Pfeil]

I don't...

Meyers has a post up about a brand of vibrator. Just, out of nowhere, with no context, no obvious reason, and no fresh insight.

He somehow shoehorns electron microscopes into the post, just to show that he is a scientist and not just a hentai tentacle rape porn mermaind enthusiast. I reckon the last time Meyers got some time on an EM was about 20 years ago.

http://i.imgur.com/nOCf3u1.png

Nerd of Redhead shows that he is down the feminists by talking about "displaying female orgasms":
http://i.imgur.com/5iF6WDJ.png

And someone speaks up to call bullshit on Meyers's...well, whatever he's trying to do with this post:
http://i.imgur.com/LOzopRn.png

He's trying to show that Hitachi is too ashamed of what it's tool is really used for. Are they? Maybe. Or maybe they just understand the American audience and don't want to spoil a good thing. Corporation and risk aversion and all that.

[Dornier Pfeil]

Agreed. And the main thing I disliked about the LOTR movies was how they skipped the best chapter of the WHOLE FUCKING BOOK. The "Souring of the Shire" is the most profound in the whole trilogy. Damn.... so they screwed up some of the most significant messages.

P. Jackson had no proper understanding of what the point of the trilogy was about. All he knew was 'Dungeons and Dragons' movie = $$$$$$$

[Dornier Pfeil]

This is an interesting quote:

Frodo tells Sam,

“The shadow that bred them can only mock. It cannot make: not real new things
of it own. I don‟t think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them”

But... I really am not sure that I proved my point exactly. I do think that the strong characters favor pity rather than revenge against the orcs. I will keep looking.

That letter you cited is marvelous. Really nice stuff to know about JRRT. It is almost possible to call him a humanist before it's time.

As for the quote about pity you may be looking for, try the first book (FotR) when Frodo and Gandalf have a discussion about Gollum and how it was a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when the chance was available. The lesson to be learned was that it was Bilbo's restraint that guaranteed the Ring would never have a true hold on him. Killing Gollum would have started Bilbo down an irreversible road.

And I left out the mirroring thing. Gollum got the ring by murder and it forever dominated him.

And now I see 6 posts in a row. Sorry about that. I'll shut up now.

[SoylentAtheist]

Short video clip of PZ Myers and Sam Harris from 2009. I was shocked and stunned to see Myers sounding somewhat reasonable and making the case for civility, openness, and having conversations with those who disagree.
:o
[youtube]ilWM7jIEN_k[/youtube]

In the intervening years Myers has become a shadow of his former self, reduced to spreading gossip on his blog and biting at the heels of the likes of Harris. I wonder if that has something to do with why Myers has become a widely-mocked virtual nobody whereas Harris has become a best-selling author, regular contributor to many widely-read newspapers and websites, a guest on popular shows like Colbert, Real Time with Bill Maher, O'Reilly, and a widely respected member of the atheist/skeptical communities.

Myers may have said that in public. But he has always done the slash & burn approach with religious people online. He hasn't changed his stripes. Just his targets.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

'I still think you're a Trophy'
To his dejected wife said PZ.
'Sorry about the limp phallus,
'I forgot to order more Cialis,
'But at least you have the Hitachi.'

[James Caruthers]

and here is an in depth discussion on the topic of orcs being pure evil or redeemable.

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/archive/in ... 12881.html

Am informal poll: My daughter thinks the orcs are redeemable and my wife thinks they are not.

They are not. This is because Tolkien was a writer and not an historian. Tolkien needed an evil force who could be slaughtered en masse in several places throughout the novel. In the real world, both sides in a war have many good people. That level of moral ambiguity would have been unacceptable to Tolkien, I think. The idea that his good characters would be killing fellow good characters? I think he would have found such a thing repugnant.

...snip...

Is not a classicist a historian of literature.

Everything else though-spot on.

:oops:

Yes, okay okay, he was a Beowulf scholar and such, but I meant he wasn't writing a grand history of "I'm going to mirror the depth and complexity of real life moral ambiguity perfectly in my fantasy world," which is what many authors in fantasy and science fiction try to do.

In my opinion, writers in these two genres should keep their scopes small until they master the basics of storytelling. Fantasy and Science Fiction as genres are full of the book equivalent of shitposting. :dance:

[John D]

I don't...

Meyers has a post up about a brand of vibrator. Just, out of nowhere, with no context, no obvious reason, and no fresh insight.

My wife is very happy with her "Vanity" by Jopen. It is rechargable with ni-cad batteries. All the toys with replacable batteries don't have enough power and my wife is a high horsepower type of gal.... For what it is worth.

I have explained this to my kids as well.

[Gumby]

Quick Pitpoll: How many people here have ever seen or heard of a WWII photograph called Wait For Me Daddy?

Never had heard of it until you brought it here.

[James Caruthers]

And I left out the mirroring thing. Gollum got the ring by murder and it forever dominated him.

And now I see 6 posts in a row. Sorry about that. I'll shut up now.

Compare to the Ring's effect on Frodo, where it seems to have transformed him in positive ways.

Sure, there is an aspect of Christian sacrifice and Frodo's journey to sacrifice the Ring functions as metaphor for Christ's journey to the Cross to sacrifice himself, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it an allegory or anything. Tolkien wasn't very fond of morality plays.

No, this goes more to the themes of self-sacrifice and tribulation as transformative (or having the potential to transform) for the better. Merry, Pippin, Eowyn, Strider et al are transformed by their trials, but no one so much as Frodo. Is that because the Ring gives him some of the power, nobility and dignity of the great kings of men who held it before him? Or is it because he had the greatest burden of all?

I dunno. You figure it out. :P

For that matter, is the Ring completely evil? Seems to be pretty evil bro, but some good things happen because of the Ring, too.

When Frodo finishes his quest, it's telling that characters like Gandalf and Aragorn regard him with awe and reverence. Not just because of what he did (insert Jesus comparisons here lol), but because of who he is, or who he has become. I got the impression (perhaps I'm reading too much into things) that Gandalf and Aragorn consider Frodo at least their equals.

"The Last Shall Be First" etc etc, the Christian background is all over the place obvious in Tolkien. It's not offensive though.

[Pitchguest]

I just watched the latest episode of Doctor Who.

What the fuck is Stefen Moffat doing? What the fuck was that?

[BarnOwl]

In The Fall of Gondolin (BoLT 2), Orcs are said to be bred by Melko (Morgoth) "... of the subterranean heats and slime. Their hearts were of granite and their bodies deformed ..."

So there you have it: Orcs, originating from slime, must be irredeemable. :ugeek:

[Gumby]

Did a load of laundry. Folded it and placed nicely in basket. Turned away for a minute. Looked back to find this.

http://i.imgur.com/FTyMEEU.jpg

Fucker.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I don't...

Meyers has a post up about a brand of vibrator. Just, out of nowhere, with no context, no obvious reason, and no fresh insight.

He somehow shoehorns electron microscopes into the post, just to show that he is a scientist and not just a hentai tentacle rape porn mermaind enthusiast. I reckon the last time Meyers got some time on an EM was about 20 years ago.

http://i.imgur.com/nOCf3u1.png

Nerd of Redhead shows that he is down the feminists by talking about "displaying female orgasms":
http://i.imgur.com/5iF6WDJ.png

And someone speaks up to call bullshit on Meyers's...well, whatever he's trying to do with this post:
http://i.imgur.com/LOzopRn.png

He's trying to show that Hitachi is too ashamed of what it's tool is really used for. Are they? Maybe. Or maybe they just understand the American audience and don't want to spoil a good thing. Corporation and risk aversion and all that.

Check out the 2nd comment: it appears that Hitachi do put their name on it.

Which is irrelevant to the main point: what the fuck has got Meyers interested enough in this to suddenly post on it? Has he been rummaging through The Trophy Wife's drawers in a fit of marital paranoia? Perhaps he invited Shermer round for dinner recently, and is experiencing feelings of inadequacy?

[AndrewV69]

I can't remember what their name was but weren't the magic using women in Dune pretty bad-ass?

The Bene Gesserit were pretty bad ass. Follow the link and refresh your memory.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Did a load of laundry. Folded it and placed nicely in basket. Turned away for a minute. Looked back to find this.

http://i.imgur.com/FTyMEEU.jpg

Fucker.

http://i.imgur.com/7dDdQRn.jpg

[another lurker]

My cat sits on my router when I'm trying to read the pit!

[Brive1987]

I just watched the latest episode of Doctor Who.

What the fuck is Stefen Moffat doing? What the fuck was that?

The moon hatching a chicken one?


*Spoilers*

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I can't remember what their name was but weren't the magic using women in Dune pretty bad-ass?

The Bene Gesserit were pretty bad ass. Follow the link and refresh your memory.

Link don't work for non-Wiki volunteers.

[sinister]

Did a load of laundry. Folded it and placed nicely in basket. Turned away for a minute. Looked back to find this.

http://i.imgur.com/FTyMEEU.jpg

Fucker.

Is that a yawn? Or an I kill you?

[Glen_Davidson]

Did a load of laundry. Folded it and placed nicely in basket. Turned away for a minute. Looked back to find this.

http://i.imgur.com/FTyMEEU.jpg

Fucker.

The cat knows that serving it makes your life worth living.

If just barely.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p

[AndrewV69]

I can't remember what their name was but weren't the magic using women in Dune pretty bad-ass?

The Bene Gesserit were pretty bad ass. Follow the link and refresh your memory.

Link don't work for non-Wiki volunteers.

Whoops! Try this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit

[Gumby]

Did a load of laundry. Folded it and placed nicely in basket. Turned away for a minute. Looked back to find this.

[.img]http://i.imgur.com/FTyMEEU.jpg[/img]

Fucker.

Is that a yawn? Or an I kill you?

A yawn, from a cat that knows she's not getting in any trouble.

[BarnOwl]

And I left out the mirroring thing. Gollum got the ring by murder and it forever dominated him.

And now I see 6 posts in a row. Sorry about that. I'll shut up now.

Compare to the Ring's effect on Frodo, where it seems to have transformed him in positive ways.

Sure, there is an aspect of Christian sacrifice and Frodo's journey to sacrifice the Ring functions as metaphor for Christ's journey to the Cross to sacrifice himself, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it an allegory or anything. Tolkien wasn't very fond of morality plays.

No, this goes more to the themes of self-sacrifice and tribulation as transformative (or having the potential to transform) for the better. Merry, Pippin, Eowyn, Strider et al are transformed by their trials, but no one so much as Frodo. Is that because the Ring gives him some of the power, nobility and dignity of the great kings of men who held it before him? Or is it because he had the greatest burden of all?

I dunno. You figure it out. :P

For that matter, is the Ring completely evil? Seems to be pretty evil bro, but some good things happen because of the Ring, too.

When Frodo finishes his quest, it's telling that characters like Gandalf and Aragorn regard him with awe and reverence. Not just because of what he did (insert Jesus comparisons here lol), but because of who he is, or who he has become. I got the impression (perhaps I'm reading too much into things) that Gandalf and Aragorn consider Frodo at least their equals.

"The Last Shall Be First" etc etc, the Christian background is all over the place obvious in Tolkien. It's not offensive though.

The One Ring was created by Sauron in an attempt to gain control over the Three created by Celebrimbor. Isildur cut it from Sauron's hand, ignored the advice of Elrond and others to destroy it in Orodruin, and kept it as weregild. Of course it later slipped from his hand and betrayed him to Orcs. When Frodo wore the Ring on Weathertop, it betrayed him to the Black Riders, and he received the wound from which he never really recovered. He suffers from lasting effects of this wound repeatedly on the anniversary of the Weathertop event, and it seems to contribute to the decision to depart for the Grey Havens. The One Ring was created with evil intent, and it seems to bring suffering to whomever wears it.

[James Caruthers]

In The Fall of Gondolin (BoLT 2), Orcs are said to be bred by Melko (Morgoth) "... of the subterranean heats and slime. Their hearts were of granite and their bodies deformed ..."

So there you have it: Orcs, originating from slime, must be irredeemable. :ugeek:

Oh shit! A plot twist worthy of M. Night Schlamadams!

Pitters are all orcs: Proven.

[Dornier Pfeil]

Yes, okay okay, he was a Beowulf scholar and such, but I meant he wasn't writing a grand history of "I'm going to mirror the depth and complexity of real life moral ambiguity perfectly in my fantasy world," which is what many authors in fantasy and science fiction try to do.

In my opinion, writers in these two genres should keep their scopes small until they master the basics of storytelling. Fantasy and Science Fiction as genres are full of the book equivalent of shitposting. :dance:

I attribute that to the abominable practive of too many high school english teachers of telling students that there are no wrong interpretations of literature. Any drivel you can dream up and spew forth is legitimate. It allows for the petty and small minded to home in on and single out things that are totally irrelevant to the point an author was trying to make. Kinda like certain feminists we all know.

Compare to the Ring's effect on Frodo, where it seems to have transformed him in positive ways.

Sure, there is an aspect of Christian sacrifice and Frodo's journey to sacrifice the Ring functions as metaphor for Christ's journey to the Cross to sacrifice himself, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it an allegory or anything. Tolkien wasn't very fond of morality plays.

No, this goes more to the themes of self-sacrifice and tribulation as transformative (or having the potential to transform) for the better. Merry, Pippin, Eowyn, Strider et al are transformed by their trials, but no one so much as Frodo. Is that because the Ring gives him some of the power, nobility and dignity of the great kings of men who held it before him? Or is it because he had the greatest burden of all?

I dunno. You figure it out. :P

For that matter, is the Ring completely evil? Seems to be pretty evil bro, but some good things happen because of the Ring, too.

When Frodo finishes his quest, it's telling that characters like Gandalf and Aragorn regard him with awe and reverence. Not just because of what he did (insert Jesus comparisons here lol), but because of who he is, or who he has become. I got the impression (perhaps I'm reading too much into things) that Gandalf and Aragorn consider Frodo at least their equals.

"The Last Shall Be First" etc etc, the Christian background is all over the place obvious in Tolkien. It's not offensive though.

I attribute Frodo's positive outcome not to any affect of the Ring but to (a) the experience of his journey and (b) the natural goodness he started with. I have never thought seeing christian themes in the story as being remotely necessary. Unlike the god-awful recent superman movies where they shove it down your throat. Atleast in the Donner movies it was subtle and confined to only a little bit of Brando monologue.
I'll note though that there wasn't actually a positive outcome for Frodo. He failed in his mission. When the time counted he claimed the ring instead of destroying it.
But I agree with you on the respect he did earn. He got the ring to the precipice. Without that all else was for naught. None of the great characters thought they could do it.

I agree; it is the idea of transformative tribulation that is most important to the basic theme of the story.
===================================================
Is it just a coincidence that Doctor Who had an identical question about the redeemability of evil in the episode "Into the Dalek" only a few weeks ago?

[John Greg]

Matt C., I tried to post this at your blog but had no luck:

Now, Matt, you know I am in no way shape or form a defender of the execrable piece of offal that is PeeZus, but c'mon, let's let facts be facts and conjecture be conjecture and wrongs be wrongs. To wit:

1. You say: "His big, fat mouth has earned him a cease & desist order from Ben Radford’s attorneys, and a defamation law suit from Michael Shermer’s." No. I do not know about the Radford bit, but from Shermer's lawyer he received a C&D, and as for as continued actual law suit action goes, who knows? There has been no word anywhere about an actual lawsuit being announced.

2. You say [Myers] "Has been accused of sexual assault by one of his female students" No. One of his students threatened that she would make a claim that he had sexually assualted her. The actual accusation was not made.

3. You say [Myers] "Defends a confessed serial child rapist" Has he actually defended Oggie, or just given him tacit support and safe space?

4. You say: "... following a recent road trip for a conference, he was hospitalized for what just might have been gonorrhea." That's even thinner than Myers' blabber about Pitters being rapists.

5. You say: "Dawkins made Myers through his patronage, and (until the next edition is released) quotes Myers in his The God Delusion." So, you have it on good authority that Dawkins is going to remove the Myers quote if and when the next edition of God Delusion is released? You buddies with Dawkins now?

6. You say: "The Happy Atheist, that compilation of old blog posts, has sold a mere 4,000 copies (including the 500 still stacked in Myers’ garage.)" You know both of these figures? How?

While it is somewhat entertaining to read, once I hit six falsehoods, I just quit reading. When I want to encounter that much fabrication or unsupportable contention I can find it and more at FTB. Sorry. No win from this critic.

[James Caruthers]

[youtube]87OfXVSSQQg[/youtube]

Can't wait for the "Blacks" ad. :bjarte:

[bovarchist]

I hate to admit it, but...

I don't think we're going to get any more episodes of Zvannity and Poems.

The comments on her post (all two of them) seem decidedly unenthusiastic at the idea of reading ANYTHING from the Pit, even to mock it. And I suspect we broke her with our 'shock and awe poetry slam' anyway. I don't think she has the heart for a second offering. She knows she's beat.

I'm hoping I'm wrong.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

[youtube]vC9Qh709gas[/youtube]
Maybe you can take the time to explain how this insanity works or possibly get her on an album?

I bet another lurker stared at her cleavage the whole time.

[James Caruthers]

I'll note though that there wasn't actually a positive outcome for Frodo. He failed in his mission. When the time counted he claimed the ring instead of destroying it.
But I agree with you on the respect he did earn. He got the ring to the precipice. Without that all else was for naught. None of the great characters thought they could do it.

I agree; it is the idea of transformative tribulation that is most important to the basic theme of the story.
===================================================

I think this is another key point, actually. Frodo isn't an ubermensch and LOTR isn't a Superman story. He didn't do it by himself. That simple act of pity, repeated many times in the course of his journey (not killing Gollum, perhaps because he saw who he could become if he let the Ring take him,) payed off at the end. Gollum did what he couldn't. But everyone helped. The victory over Sauron was thanks to every little act of goodness, kindness and righteousness. :)

A nice little family message. :D

Sauron was defeated because every good person stood up and did whatever they could, even the Hobbits at the end who took back their Shire. Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin merely provided the catalyst. They knew how to identify and battle evil because they had spent the book fighting Sauron.

So Frodo's individual failure didn't matter, because it was a team effort. I think that's one of the themes. "Doing what you can to resist evil in your time."

Transformative tribulation is a good phrase. :) I think I will steal it.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

The Bene Gesserit were pretty bad ass. Follow the link and refresh your memory.

Link don't work for non-Wiki volunteers.

Whoops! Try this one?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene_Gesserit

That works! :dance:

[Pitchguest]

I just watched the latest episode of Doctor Who.

What the fuck is Stefen Moffat doing? What the fuck was that?

The moon hatching a chicken one?


*Spoilers*

Well since the cat's out of the bag, yes. That one. What the hell were they thinking?

[James Caruthers]

Yes, okay okay, he was a Beowulf scholar and such, but I meant he wasn't writing a grand history of "I'm going to mirror the depth and complexity of real life moral ambiguity perfectly in my fantasy world," which is what many authors in fantasy and science fiction try to do.

In my opinion, writers in these two genres should keep their scopes small until they master the basics of storytelling. Fantasy and Science Fiction as genres are full of the book equivalent of shitposting. :dance:

I attribute that to the abominable practive of too many high school english teachers of telling students that there are no wrong interpretations of literature. Any drivel you can dream up and spew forth is legitimate. It allows for the petty and small minded to home in on and single out things that are totally irrelevant to the point an author was trying to make. Kinda like certain feminists we all know.

Mmm, it's quite an issue. When I was in a literature class with feminists, I could pretty much predict what their comments would be. SJWs project a lot of their own feelings onto the text and bring in a modern perspective rather than attempting to understand the authorial intent.

Of course, this is complicated by literary criticism which holds that authorial intent is meaningless and projections is a completely fair form of literary criticism. :? Ha, I remember taking a Bible course and being slapped around a bit (kindly) by the professor when I tried to bring in PoMo modernist observations on the Bible. Authorial intent, bitches!

What literary critic of note would even bother asking the question "is this sexist?" If the text is more than fifty years old, what could be the possible benefit of knowing the answer to the question of whether or not the text is considered discriminatory by the standards of people who were probably not even born at the time of the text's inception?

Is Le Morte D'Arthur sexist? If it is, so what? If it's not, so what?

I don't understand feminist literary critics at all.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Matt C., I tried to post this at your blog but had no luck:

Now, Matt, you know I am in no way shape or form a defender of the execrable piece of offal that is PeeZus, but c'mon, let's let facts be facts and conjecture be conjecture and wrongs be wrongs. To wit:

1. You say: "His big, fat mouth has earned him a cease & desist order from Ben Radford’s attorneys, and a defamation law suit from Michael Shermer’s." No. I do not know about the Radford bit, but from Shermer's lawyer he received a C&D, and as for as continued actual law suit action goes, who knows? There has been no word anywhere about an actual lawsuit being announced.

2. You say [Myers] "Has been accused of sexual assault by one of his female students" No. One of his students threatened that she would make a claim that he had sexually assualted her. The actual accusation was not made.

3. You say [Myers] "Defends a confessed serial child rapist" Has he actually defended Oggie, or just given him tacit support and safe space?

4. You say: "... following a recent road trip for a conference, he was hospitalized for what just might have been gonorrhea." That's even thinner than Myers' blabber about Pitters being rapists.

5. You say: "Dawkins made Myers through his patronage, and (until the next edition is released) quotes Myers in his The God Delusion." So, you have it on good authority that Dawkins is going to remove the Myers quote if and when the next edition of God Delusion is released? You buddies with Dawkins now?

6. You say: "The Happy Atheist, that compilation of old blog posts, has sold a mere 4,000 copies (including the 500 still stacked in Myers’ garage.)" You know both of these figures? How?

While it is somewhat entertaining to read, once I hit six falsehoods, I just quit reading. When I want to encounter that much fabrication or unsupportable contention I can find it and more at FTB. Sorry. No win from this critic.

FTFY


A blog host named Wordpress
Left all its users in distress.
They'd turn moderation off, but then
Wordpress 'd turn it back on again.
This level of service does not impress.


Oh, and you're wrong.

[Ape+lust]

Poetry Slam distracted me quite a little, but I finally finished

PZ Myers' Glass House

in which I contrast Peezus' prudish moralizing, finger-wagging, and slandering of slymepitters, with his own dark, disturbing sexual undercurrents.

Ugh. Documenting Peez's dirty old man eruptions. The first problem is: where to begin? The second is: when to stop? Third is putting up with his Penthouse-era leering attitude to sex.

For making such a breezy read from a gross, thankless job, I give thumbs up and 4 Disgruntled Zvans.

http://imgur.com/2NuuRbC.png