Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

Old subthreads
Mykeru
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Posts: 4758
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:52 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34801

Post by Mykeru »

zenbabe wrote:
Mykeru wrote:
zenbabe wrote: But I'd forgotten that part about how the victim found a handful of other victims. That's right. The idea that he was this rampaging raping wild man running amok at every conference spawned that whole spewing forth of subsequent nefarious dealings and goings on involving Shermer. The "he kept refilling my wine glass" and (seriously, was it Mofo, of all people) the lurid joke he dared to tell while in line at a buffet?.. and so on. Bora. Radford. Name and shame. A cauldron of unbelievable.

It seems that Shermer is probably a lot of fun to hang out with, which is good, since his work requires him to be social with great masses of people. I couldn't do it for any real length of time (INTP 4 life). But it's also bad, because of the greater potential to meet people who will try to disgrace and shame you out of a living and out of relationships.
During the child sexual abuse and satanic panics of the 80s and 90s all it took was someone to come forward with their tale, especially if a scapegoat was put forward, and people would line up to claim their kid was buggered on the magic flying bus or they
The attachment 1408558384893.jpg is no longer available
watched baby blood orgies.

Must have been something to it.

P.S. Thanks to Tapatalk, I wrote this on the shitter.
Baby Blood Orgies.
:D
Exploring the possibilities for the title of a book?
I think it would be an appropriate description for the SJW psychological and emotional feeding frenzy which is on endless, and endlessly shocking, display.

While you were off getting back to nature, hiking the Appalachian Trail, your skirt providing easy access for the mosquitoes that wanted to rape every pore of your nether regions, you lost all your tech mojo. Also, judging from the blurriness of the pic, you seem pretty trembly and keen on using a nice clean toilet. Also also I assume you had a devastating experience you wanted to memorialize.

Surely it had nothing to do with the toilet slave meme, amirite?
1. My grandfather wore a "skirt" too. In fact, the whole Highland Regiment were basically the Scots version of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.

2. DEET. Lots of DEET.

3. That's part of the 185 mile C&O Canal running from Cumberland, MD to Georgetown in Washington DC

4. I didn't take the picture. Chuck did, and he was walking backwards while having a pack-related near-death experience. Mine was due to the old M1945 canvas pack I was lugging trying to amputate my arms at the shoulder.

5. They have porta-johns at the sporadic campsites. You're better off shitting in the woods.

6. This is the working cover of my book:
book2.jpg
(143.63 KiB) Downloaded 220 times

Mykeru
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:52 am

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34802

Post by Mykeru »

Spike13 wrote:
Mykeru wrote:
another lurker wrote:
Not everybody is up to the task of raising a disabled child.
But if you get an especially spastic one in a bouncy castle, it's totally worth it.
Just when I am at the height of righteous indignation you make me laugh and leave me deflated.

Now go make another video you twisted cunt!
On it. Shit just happens that tie the frazzled threads of my mind together.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Posts: 6555
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34803

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cainaji is feeling 1/256th solidarity with the brothers and sisters suffering in MO.

To be serious, this is exactly the kind of bullshit "appropriation" of others' suffering which this malicious cunt normally takes pleasure in shrieking about on Meyers's blog. She is clearly an illogical, hypocritical, insane piece of shit. Proper skin-crawling feeling coming from this nasty fucker:

http://i.imgur.com/BNkDgM8.png

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-838768

SoylentAtheist

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34804

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Well look at this shit.

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/ham ... ic-schools
Article wrote:Archdiocese of Cincinnati douses enthusiasm for ice-bucket challenge in Catholic schools
Embryonic stem cell research at heart of issue
Article wrote:Stephen A. Trosley with Cincinnati's Archdiocese, recommended Catholics donate to The John Paul II Medical Research Institute in Iowa City, IA
Nothing like making sure your own damn pockets are lined.

I couldn't find an exact match for that name, but I did find a charity named "John Paul II Stem Cell Research Institute" with a 990 form and it appears to be a dead on match with what their website lists as their functions. They only brought in $114k in 2012. I don't think they have the chops to do any serious research for ALS.

2012 990 form (none available for 2013)
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2 ... 450c-Z.pdf

Of their expenses:
* $75k went to salaries (page 1)
* $49k went to "Increase the awareness, galvanize and encourage pro-life Christians to contribute to advance pro-life stem cell research."

Talk about a failed fucking non-profit.

Compare that with ALS that only spends 14% of their income on fundraising.
http://www.alsa.org/about-us/financial-information.html
2013 990 form:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2 ... f58d-9.pdf

James Caruthers
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34805

Post by James Caruthers »

Things Cainaji learned going into town:

>Cops are oppressive triggering shitlords
>Fucking white people, how dare they not study up on my pet social justice issue and agree with me, kill them all
>White people are scary, kill them all
>Cops are TRIGGERING SHITLORDS, paranoia kicks ass
>FUCKING TRIGGERING SHITLORD COPS

franc
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Posts: 2470
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:03 pm
Location: Kosmopolites
Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34806

Post by franc »

James Caruthers wrote:Most of the info coming from Zoe seems to be pure horseshit. I wouldn't be surprised if the supposed wizardchan "attack" is a lie as well.
It is. Way too big to embed -


DownThunder
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34807

Post by DownThunder »

Spike13 wrote:Sorry about this, but,

Fuck you Richard, I have had the pleasure of knowing three people with downs.

They seemed to be enjoying their lives as well as enriching those around them with love, caring and yes a thirst for learning.

They may not live a life you feel is worth living, but they are lives well lived.

Is it more work ? Yes it is.

And that seems to be the crux of the biscuit.

I love your work Richard, but on this you are dead fucking wrong.
Surely you could make that argument for any abortion, which I think there is some merit to examining the value we place on life.

That is why like most I think I opt for a reasoned choice approach that excludes the rabid abortion at any stage (which includes post-natal abortions, apparently)

Spike13
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Posts: 3014
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Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34808

Post by Spike13 »

another lurker wrote:
another lurker wrote:
Not everybody is up to the task of raising a disabled child. Not everyone has the resources. Its a wonderful sacrifice to be sure, but I would not want people who are not suited for the job to try it. That's just a recipe for abuse, IMO.



Understandable. Practical concerns are not necessarily ableist, and it's a fine line that we walk - is the decision not to have a disabled child an ableist one? Does it devalue the lives of existing disabled?

In the end, I don't think so. It should be a personal decision for families. Pressure to abort is just as wrong as pressure to birth.
Agreed, In no way did I intend to cast judgement on anyone who has had to make such a heart ending decision. (Although reading over my comment I left that gaping hole there and apologize to anyone who may have been offended by it.)

Upon reflection, short twitter type comments do not leave much room for inflection(Dawkins), and commenting in haste was probably not the smartest move(me).

another lurker
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Posts: 4740
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:39 pm

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34809

Post by another lurker »

Spike13 wrote:
another lurker wrote:
another lurker wrote:
Not everybody is up to the task of raising a disabled child. Not everyone has the resources. Its a wonderful sacrifice to be sure, but I would not want people who are not suited for the job to try it. That's just a recipe for abuse, IMO.



Understandable. Practical concerns are not necessarily ableist, and it's a fine line that we walk - is the decision not to have a disabled child an ableist one? Does it devalue the lives of existing disabled?

In the end, I don't think so. It should be a personal decision for families. Pressure to abort is just as wrong as pressure to birth.
Agreed, In no way did I intend to cast judgement on anyone who has had to make such a heart ending decision. (Although reading over my comment I left that gaping hole there and apologize to anyone who may have been offended by it.)

Upon reflection, short twitter type comments do not leave much room for inflection(Dawkins), and commenting in haste was probably not the smartest move(me).
Spike, you are far too reasonable. This is the pit!

Fuck you with a Hamas, and I bet you play the guitar wrong too!!eleventy11!

Spike13
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Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34810

Post by Spike13 »

And a Jewdriver to you too!
I play the guitar lefty, just like Hendrix! (Although I sure as fuck don't sound like him....)

SoylentAtheist

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34811

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Spike13 wrote:
didymos wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:https://twitter.com/PHIL_FISH

Phil Fish's tweets are now protected.
He did that last night after he had a big freakout and started twitter-shouting at people, including multiple tweets composed solely of the words "twitter meltdown" repeated over and over.
Anybody archive it?
They are out there and it is a glorious set of self important Hugo Schwarz mutton-chopped goodness. Sorry, I am not in a place where I can look up the images. But he hashed, slashed and insulted everyone, told people he is canceling his games and then started pounding away at the keyboard saying "TWITTER MELTDOWN TWITTER MELTDOWN TWITTER MELTDOWN TWITTER MELTDOWN TWITTER MELTDOWN " as if to perhaps play it off as some mental episode that he had no control over.

Here is part of it, but not the best of his primadonna tirade.
http://www.gamefront.com/did-phil-fish- ... a-twitter/

Spike13
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Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34812

Post by Spike13 »

And the thumb behind the neck thing comes from the fact most guitar students are kids and their tiny little dick skinners are too small to have them drape the thump and still easily reach the low "E" and "A" strings as well as fretting chords.

didymos
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34813

Post by didymos »

Yeah, assholes. Like drink wine and bitch on Twitter about how useless other people are.

Liesmith
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34814

Post by Liesmith »

People are complaining about the Ice Bucket challenge because it's silly...but it actually works:

http://time.com/3136458/viral-als-ice-b ... 5-million/

But sure, let's all be serious and somber and zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



I'm sure that shit will go viral and raise a shit-ton of money.

Spike13
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Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34815

Post by Spike13 »

Holy shit! That was one hold your breath till you turn blue, shit your pants, buy me something at toys r us toddler meltdown!

His mommy must have put his twitter on private.

Spike13
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Posts: 3014
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 pm
Location: Dirty Jersey, on the Chemical Coast

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34816

Post by Spike13 »

For some reason I can't quote/respond.
I keep getting a 504 gateway time out.

Spike13
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Posts: 3014
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34817

Post by Spike13 »

Hey Elsye want to make the world a better place?
Get a fucking job you parasite!

TiBo
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Posts: 632
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34818

Post by TiBo »

Spike13 wrote:
TiBo wrote:
Spike13 wrote:Sorry about this, but,
Fuck you Richard, I have had the pleasure of knowing three people with downs.
They seemed to be enjoying their lives as well as enriching those around them with love, caring and yes a thirst for learning.
They may not live a life you feel is worth living, but they are lives well lived.
Is it more work ? Yes it is.
And that seems to be the crux of the biscuit.
I love your work Richard, but on this you are dead fucking wrong.
Quick check.
Assume we had a method to eliminate DS in the fetus.
Would it be moral to refuse that treatment? Would you still prefer the kid getting born with DS?
Would the kid be born at all?
Assuming you are saying that the child would be born as it is but without DS, why not.
It would be the same being, only without DS.
I wouldn't wish DS on anyone, but, I wouldn't wish to discount a life because of it.
Yes, it would be born. Otherwise the hypothetical would be superfluous.

1) I find the assumption "life with DS is better than not being born" to be highly suspicious, because it touches something that IIRC Hitchens also referred to when he equated his thoughts about the time after his death with his thoughts about the time before he was born. "Being dead" is not a thing, not an actual state in which a person can find itself. And so is "Never having been born". It's a non-state, an purely imaginary construct, at least up to the point where consciousness begins to arise. And it seems to me that those who categorically see the fetus as a non-person until it is actually born (=out of the tube), would have to agree that the fetus never gains any status that is somehow comparable to personhood.

That means, that the comparison between "life with DS", an actual state to be in, as being better than "not being born", an imaginary non-state, is not right or wrong, it's outright invalid. It's a non-comparison, which nonetheless seems to arouse some intense feelings with lots of people. Dubious. I wonder if there are invisible axioms at work here, which haven't been discussed so far ?

2) The same people who assert that women's autonomous choice should override any concerns for a fetus which they seek to abort, are the same people who now say it would be morally wrong for a woman to abort a fetus bc she doesn't want a child with DS?

Wow, that assertion of sovereign bodily autonomy as a moral principle surely has vanished pretty quickly ?! And if DS is not a morally defensible reason to abort a fetus, what do they think is ? It seems to me that a seriousness illness is among exactly those few reasons which even strident anti-choicers were most likely to accept as morally defensible.

ConcentratedH2O, OM
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34819

Post by ConcentratedH2O, OM »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cainaji is feeling 1/256th solidarity with the brothers and sisters suffering in MO.

To be serious, this is exactly the kind of bullshit "appropriation" of others' suffering which this malicious cunt normally takes pleasure in shrieking about on Meyers's blog. She is clearly an illogical, hypocritical, insane piece of shit. Proper skin-crawling feeling coming from this nasty fucker:

http://i.imgur.com/BNkDgM8.png

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-838768
For anyone who has never seen Cainaji's real-life photos (which she used to happily link to), she is the whitest fucker you ever did see. Her 1/256th Lakota genetics obviously provided only the gene which regulates racial ancestry butthurt, while all of the genes for skin color, choice of area to live ine, and Hobby Lobby loving must have been white-people dominant. Very, very dominant.

To be fair to Cainaji, she may have contracted Meyersitis Ancestrus Interchababilus from hanging around Meyers's blog. It's sad, but one day he claims to be Scandinavian, the next British, and the next...well, we're still waiting for Meyers to go the full Lakota, but I'm sure it's going to happen one day. It's inevitable, once he sees the impunity which it grants Cainaji from SJW attacks. That chick could claim the moon is made of ratskulls and she'd be treated as a fucking intellectual.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34820

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Brive1987 wrote:PZ engages with Foley murder.

* someone should do *something* (Peez - if the hashtag failed escalate to banhammer)
* it's all our fault anyway
* then the real point of the post: Fox News is racist.

That guy is, as always, an insult.

http://i.imgur.com/1FJ9Txq.jpg
PZ Myers wrote:...they're symptomatic of the wreckage our adventures in the Middle East have left behind.
Little Paul, consider yourself Hitch-slapped.

[youtube]iouhwXTQJIU[/youtube]

another lurker
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34821

Post by another lurker »

Intense feelings = existential angst.

Also: terror management theory
http://www.tmt.missouri.edu

Matt Cavanaugh
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Posts: 15449
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34822

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

TiBo wrote:
1) I find the assumption "life with DS is better than not being born" to be highly suspicious, because it touches something that IIRC Hitchens also referred to when he equated his thoughts about the time after his death with his thoughts about the time before he was born. "Being dead" is not a thing, not an actual state in which a person can find itself. And so is "Never having been born". It's a non-state, an purely imaginary construct, at least up to the point where consciousness begins to arise. And it seems to me that those who categorically see the fetus as a non-person until it is actually born (=out of the tube), would have to agree that the fetus never gains any status that is somehow comparable to personhood.

That means, that the comparison between "life with DS", an actual state to be in, as being better than "not being born", an imaginary non-state, is not right or wrong, it's outright invalid. It's a non-comparison, which nonetheless seems to arouse some intense feelings with lots of people. Dubious. I wonder if there are invisible axioms at work here, which haven't been discussed so far ?
That comes from Epicurus.

My 2 cents:
1¢ -- You already don't need a specific reason to have an abortion, so arguing whether a particular reason is 'valid' is moot;
2¢ -- c. 1/3 of all pregnancies spontaneously abort, usually because the fetus has some gross genetic flaw. Unless one believes in souls, one should have no qualms about the artificial abortion of a fetus with a gross genetic flaw.

Hunt
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34823

Post by Hunt »

TiBo wrote: Yes, it would be born. Otherwise the hypothetical would be superfluous.

1) I find the assumption "life with DS is better than not being born" to be highly suspicious, because it touches something that IIRC Hitchens also referred to when he equated his thoughts about the time after his death with his thoughts about the time before he was born. "Being dead" is not a thing, not an actual state in which a person can find itself. And so is "Never having been born". It's a non-state, an purely imaginary construct, at least up to the point where consciousness begins to arise. And it seems to me that those who categorically see the fetus as a non-person until it is actually born (=out of the tube), would have to agree that the fetus never gains any status that is somehow comparable to personhood.

That means, that the comparison between "life with DS", an actual state to be in, as being better than "not being born", an imaginary non-state, is not right or wrong, it's outright invalid. It's a non-comparison, which nonetheless seems to arouse some intense feelings with lots of people. Dubious. I wonder if there are invisible axioms at work here, which haven't been discussed so far ?

2) The same people who assert that women's autonomous choice should override any concerns for a fetus which they seek to abort, are the same people who now say it would be morally wrong for a woman to abort a fetus bc she doesn't want a child with DS?

Wow, that assertion of sovereign bodily autonomy as a moral principle surely has vanished pretty quickly ?! And if DS is not a morally defensible reason to abort a fetus, what do they think is ? It seems to me that a seriousness illness is among exactly those few reasons which even strident anti-choicers were most likely to accept as morally defensible.
I find that whole post fascinating, since the Pharyngulites seem to be getting caught up on a point right out of the pro-life game plan. If there is nothing morally wrong with terminating a fetus, as is axiomatic in the pro-choice scheme of things, then there is no moral imperative at all to preserving "potential life." As you say, the entire argument is nonsequitur, therefore terminating or not terminating is entirely arbitrary. It can be decided by tossing dice. The thing that seems to most trouble them is that they're calling choice by genetic defect eugenics.

"Don't you think it would have been wrong to deny you life by abortion," is a typical pro-life line, but it's a fallacy of begging the question. There would be no me, therefore the question has no meaning. If the Pharyngulans continue arguing in the present vein, they're going to talk themselves into a pro-life position. They're already halfway there.

TiBo
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34824

Post by TiBo »

I guess that most of us will live to see a time where medical/genetical technology advances to the point where it can eradicate all sorts of illnesses from a fetus, and maybe even "engineer" an embryo's/fetus' genome in a way that gives it several advantageous characteristics.

At that point, not using these techniques might easily become a non-defensible moral position. And if that technology also makes it possible to eliminate the propensity for mental deficiencies, like victimhood feminism or religious zealotry, you'll see a good portion of the internet's population getting really REALLY nervous :popcorn:

SoylentAtheist

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34825

Post by SoylentAtheist »

TiBo wrote:I guess that most of us will live to see a time where medical/genetical technology advances to the point where it can eradicate all sorts of illnesses from a fetus, and maybe even "engineer" an embryo's/fetus' genome in a way that gives it several advantageous characteristics.

At that point, not using these techniques might easily become a non-defensible moral position. And if that technology also makes it possible to eliminate the propensity for mental deficiencies, like victimhood feminism or religious zealotry, you'll see a good portion of the internet's population getting really REALLY nervous :popcorn:
That or they will genetically engineer them to have the least privilege ever so they don't grow up to be horrible white cis able bodied men.

Genetically engineer them to be black female deaf, dumb, blind asthmatic paraplegics.

Heck, now that we think about it, why are all of these white feminist bringing more white males into the world. They should be inseminating themselves with black babies that are not over privileged. They can do that today with half a dozen shooters at the local bar & the first man they meet.

didymos
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34826

Post by didymos »

Suey tries her hand at tainting the jury pool:

Skep tickle
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34827

Post by Skep tickle »

Hunt wrote:
TiBo wrote: Yes, it would be born. Otherwise the hypothetical would be superfluous.

<snip>

2) The same people who assert that women's autonomous choice should override any concerns for a fetus which they seek to abort, are the same people who now say it would be morally wrong for a woman to abort a fetus bc she doesn't want a child with DS?

Wow, that assertion of sovereign bodily autonomy as a moral principle surely has vanished pretty quickly ?! And if DS is not a morally defensible reason to abort a fetus, what do they think is ? It seems to me that a seriousness illness is among exactly those few reasons which even strident anti-choicers were most likely to accept as morally defensible.
I find that whole post fascinating, since the Pharyngulites seem to be getting caught up on a point right out of the pro-life game plan. If there is nothing morally wrong with terminating a fetus, as is axiomatic in the pro-choice scheme of things, then there is no moral imperative at all to preserving "potential life." As you say, the entire argument is nonsequitur, therefore terminating or not terminating is entirely arbitrary. It can be decided by tossing dice. The thing that seems to most trouble them is that they're calling choice by genetic defect eugenics.

"Don't you think it would have been wrong to deny you life by abortion," is a typical pro-life line, but it's a fallacy of begging the question. There would be no me, therefore the question has no meaning. If the Pharyngulans continue arguing in the present vein, they're going to talk themselves into a pro-life position. They're already halfway there.
They're not saying that it's morally wrong to terminate, they're disagreeing with RD saying it'd be "immoral not to" abort. And, they're reiterating their position in favor of a woman's unfettered autonomy to decide, on any basis she wants, whether to terminate her pregnancy or not. (Well, several of those making more cogent arguments over there & in Myers' thread on same topic - beyond stuff like "Dawkins just sealed the coffin of his retirement", which is also being said.) A couple are also throwing a bone to the father's involvement in such a decision.

I'd copied over Benson's post not because I agree with Dawkins (I disagree with him but think it, like so many other challenging situations, is an interesting question to consider).

I brought it up because of Benson presenting it as something that he shouldn't say because it's (or, she sees it as) embarrassing to atheism.

"Freethought" - yeah, right.

And can you imagine, she may now wish she'd included something in the Ben-Daw agreement to muzzle him on any topic outside of science.

Skep tickle
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34828

Post by Skep tickle »

austin wrote:So terrible, fTbCON has been postponed. May the real reason be that maybe only 50-100 people actually care, just like the other times. Who can endure the Lousy Canuck drone on for hours unless you have insomnia.
http://ftbcon.org/
Miri wrote:FtBCon 3 Postponed: Please Read

Due to some unexpected circumstances for a few of the FtBCon organizers, we have decided to postpone the conference for a few months. We know that you have kept your schedules open for next weekend and we apologize for this, but it’s the best way to make sure that the conference is as well-organized and fun as we want it to be.

We’re working on setting a new date together with all our panel organizers so that as many of them can participate as possible. We’ll have a date set by next weekend, and the rescheduled conference will probably be between two and five months from now. Look out for the announcement on this blog, our Twitter, and our Facebook page.

Thanks for your help in making FtBCon awesome. We apologize again for having to postpone and hope that you’ll be able to join us for the new date. If you have any questions, let us know.
"Unexpected circumstances"? Which do you think those might be? Avi passing his last medical school courses? Book sales flagging for PZ & Greta? Ophelia having to keep tabs on Dawkins' tweets & issue corrective posts whenever he strays?

(Summer probably wasn't a good time anyway, at least for people with northern hemisphere privilege.)

franc
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34829

Post by franc »

Skep tickle wrote:
austin wrote:So terrible, fTbCON has been postponed. May the real reason be that maybe only 50-100 people actually care, just like the other times. Who can endure the Lousy Canuck drone on for hours unless you have insomnia.
"Unexpected circumstances"? Which do you think those might be? Avi passing his last medical school courses? Book sales flagging for PZ & Greta? Ophelia having to keep tabs on Dawkins' tweets & issue corrective posts whenever he strays?
The "postponed" notice posted 5 days ago - has zero comments.

didymos
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34830

Post by didymos »

Phil Fish deleted his Twitter.

Tkmlac
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Location: California
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34831

Post by Tkmlac »

Good moooooooorrrrrrning!

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34832

Post by Tkmlac »

I have been absent awhile. Tell me this Zoe quinn bitch isn't fah real.

Dick Strawkins
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34833

Post by Dick Strawkins »

I've just been catching up with the latest Dawktwitversy about abortion and Downs syndrome.

I guess the main contention is regarding his line that it is immoral to give birth to a Downs syndrome child - and that the woman should abort and try again if the fetus is discovered to be trisomy 21.

I think I've mentioned it here before that I used to work in a clinic where prenatal diagnosis was performed through the identification of chromosomal abnormalities. Women who were high risk (through age or levels of a particular protein in their blood) had a biopsy of their placenta taken and this was sent to our lab. We would culture the cells so that they would divide and then we would examine the metaphase cells in which we could identify the chromosomes. Downs syndrome was confirmed through the finding of the characteristic trisomy 21 karyotype.
The vast majority of suspected cases turned out to be normal karyotype. I worked there for a year and didn't identify a single trisomy 21 (although others on the team did - the average rate at the time was about one in 30 suspected cases.)
I did, however, identify a trisomy 13 case - Patau syndrome.
This is far more severe than Downs syndrome - 80% of those who survive until birth will die before they reach one year of age and almost all are dead before they are more then a few years old. There are very severe neurological as well as multiple developmental abormalities associated with this condition and surgical intervention is necessary almost immediately if they are to live even brief lives.

If Dawkins had used this condition (or the related trisomy 18 Edwards syndrome) then I think he would have had a reasonable point. A lot of these severe abnormality cases will miscarry relatively late in pregnancy, thus creating a risk to the life of the mother. The chances that a full term pregnancy will result in any significant quality of life for the child is minimal.
In that case you can very well argue that it is immoral to risk the life of the mother.

I don't think the same thing to Downs syndrome.
There are plenty of examples of Downs syndrome individuals that live lives with some degree of quality and happiness.
I can't see how it is valid to say it is necessarily immoral to give birth to such a child.

So I disagree with Dawkins on that tweet.

As far as I can tell Dawkins follows the Peter Singer line regarding the abortion issue. That can be problematic when arguing with those unfamiliar with Singers views - or with those who take a religious line and are anti abortion.
Singer takes a logically consistent line that often sounds cruel and heartless to those who don't share his views.
For example he allows for the idea of infanticide - killing of a child after birth. This notion (that the baby has not yet developed thinking ability and thus killing it is not killing a developed person) gets around many of the logical inconsistencies in the standard abortion debate but at the same time is rather horrifying to those who hear it for the first time.

I guess that Dawkins was following this line but also assuming that Downs syndrome was always severe, when the truth is that there is a range of symptoms (indeed some mosaic Downs cases can look like typical Downs but have close to normal neurological skills.)
If there is such a range (unlike Pataus or Edwards syndromes) then how can you say it is immoral to give birth to such a child.
It MAY be immoral if you know the condition is severe and it will die soon after birth (and hence you are risking the life of the mother) but for Downs this is unlikely to be the case and in many instances the condition will be less severe than conditions such as severe autism.

I think abortion as a whole is problematic to comment upon using twitter because it is a complicated issue.
Just cast you mind back to just a few months ago and Myers reporting on the story of aborted or miscarried fetuses being burnt in an incinerator that generated electricity.
I’m not in the least disturbed by the fact that patients were not consulted on how their dead fetus was disposed. When you go in for an operation, are you concerned about what is done with the bloody towels afterwards, or how your appendix or tonsils or excised cyst are treated? Did you think there was some special room deep in the bowels of the institution where they were reverently interred, attended by a weeping chaplain who said a few kind words over your precious bodily fluids? Nope. They’re sealed up in a bag, dealt with according to appropriate protocols for medical waste, and incinerated.

Get over it.
Does anyone think that Dawkins could have said the above paragraph and not been pounced upon by the twitterati for being a heartless monster?

Just to illustrate how problematic simple statements can be in the abortion debate, just look at the title of Myers post about the current Dawkins controvery:

"Saying you should abort is as wrong as saying you may not abort"

That's straight forward isn't it?

Not quite.
Although I agree with Myers over Dawkins on the question of the particular tweet in question, just reread Myers words and think how they could be applied to the case of Savita Halappanavar who died in University Hospital Galway of infection after the medical staff there refused to abort her fetus while it still had a heartbeat.

Wouldn't Myers line "Saying you should abort is as wrong as saying you may not abort" provide a justification for the medical staff to refuse to abort?
I realize that Myers intends his words to only apply to the pregnant woman but interpretation of wording about abortion is a fine art in countries where there are strong anti-abortion movements and any ambiguity will be seized upon to provide justification for those who seek to deny women the right to abort.

piginthecity
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34834

Post by piginthecity »

another lurker wrote:
Spike13 wrote:
Fuck you Richard, I have had the pleasure of knowing three people with downs.
In the end, I don't think so. It should be a personal decision for families. Pressure to abort is just as wrong as pressure to birth.
I'm with you two guys on this. The I-Know-What's-Best-For-You-And-Society element of Dawkins statement gives it an SJL feel. I hope he's not competing with PZ !

Dick Strawkins
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34835

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Tkmlac wrote:Good moooooooorrrrrrning!
Hey!
Great to see you back!

Is Zoe Quinn for real?
I'm afraid so.
The real problem, however is that geek communities seem to have no way to cope with these fuckwits other than capitulating - which only encourages more of them to do the same - hence the current infestation of dye-haired hypocrites and their white knighting sycophants.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34836

Post by Pitchguest »

Tkmlac wrote:I have been absent awhile. Tell me this Zoe quinn bitch isn't fah real.
Moustache girl! You're back!

And yes. It is with much sadness that I must announce that Zöe Quinn is very real. Like Sarkeesian and Watson before her, she gets the support of the white knights eager to save the damsel in the tower from the big, black dragon (us). Unfortunately for her, she's proven herself to be a massive compulsive liar where she has pretty much made up everything from harassment to doxxing to robbery, and a slag willing to fuck anyone that moves as long as it curries favour - particularly favour that plugs her own game.

But if previous instances have anything to say anything about the outcome of this, it will soon be forgotten, history will be rewritten and she will be looked upon as a shining beacon of feminism. Probably invited to talks, possibly Tedx, and who knows; she might even get an award for her troubles. Fuck knows. This industry is becoming a slum.

zenbabe
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34837

Post by zenbabe »

Mykeru wrote:
1. My grandfather wore a "skirt" too. In fact, the whole Highland Regiment were basically the Scots version of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
A noble history indeed.
Your skirt was very cute and flirty, btw, what with the saucy way it revealed your knees.
2. DEET. Lots of DEET.

3. That's part of the 185 mile C&O Canal running from Cumberland, MD to Georgetown in Washington DC
Did you hike the whole thing?
4. I didn't take the picture.
When I spoke of the blurry pic and teased about having a clean toilet, I was referring to the one you posted, with the thumb up. :) But I liked the one with the skirt. "A wild Mykeru appears"
Chuck did, and he was walking backwards while having a pack-related near-death experience.
All I can imagine is that he toppled over in a way that would have been hilarious if it weren't for the fifty foot drop he only very narrowly avoided.
Mine was due to the old M1945 canvas pack I was lugging trying to amputate my arms at the shoulder.

5. They have porta-johns at the sporadic campsites. You're better off shitting in the woods.

6. This is the working cover of my book:
book2.jpg
:lol:
That has a pretty good 'vibrating with rage' sort of. .er.. vibe.

Did you catch PZ's response to Robin Williams' suicide? It pissed off heaps of people. Including Dawkins. And speaking of Dawkins, did you see the Butterfly Treaty?

I think those were the main Clown Car things you missed.

zenbabe
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34838

Post by zenbabe »

Mykeru wrote:
1. My grandfather wore a "skirt" too. In fact, the whole Highland Regiment were basically the Scots version of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert.
A noble history indeed.
Your skirt was very cute and flirty, btw, what with the saucy way it revealed your knees.
2. DEET. Lots of DEET.

3. That's part of the 185 mile C&O Canal running from Cumberland, MD to Georgetown in Washington DC
Did you hike the whole thing?
4. I didn't take the picture.
When I spoke of the blurry pic and teased about having a clean toilet, I was referring to the one you posted, with the thumb up. :) But I liked the one with the skirt. "A wild Mykeru appears"
Chuck did, and he was walking backwards while having a pack-related near-death experience.
All I can imagine is that he toppled over in a way that would have been hilarious if it weren't for the fifty foot drop he only very narrowly avoided.
Mine was due to the old M1945 canvas pack I was lugging trying to amputate my arms at the shoulder.

5. They have porta-johns at the sporadic campsites. You're better off shitting in the woods.

6. This is the working cover of my book:
book2.jpg
:lol:
That has a pretty good 'vibrating with rage' sort of. .er.. vibe.

Did you catch PZ's response to Robin Williams' suicide? It pissed off heaps of people. Including Dawkins. And speaking of Dawkins, did you see the Butterfly Treaty?

I think those were the main Clown Car things you missed.

zenbabe
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34839

Post by zenbabe »

I hate the complete helplessness of seeing that a single "submit" somehow results in inflicting a double post!

SoylentAtheist

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34840

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Skep tickle wrote:
austin wrote:So terrible, fTbCON has been postponed. May the real reason be that maybe only 50-100 people actually care, just like the other times. Who can endure the Lousy Canuck drone on for hours unless you have insomnia.
http://ftbcon.org/
Miri wrote:FtBCon 3 Postponed: Please Read

Due to some unexpected circumstances for a few of the FtBCon organizers, we have decided to postpone the conference for a few months. We know that you have kept your schedules open for next weekend and we apologize for this, but it’s the best way to make sure that the conference is as well-organized and fun as we want it to be.

We’re working on setting a new date together with all our panel organizers so that as many of them can participate as possible. We’ll have a date set by next weekend, and the rescheduled conference will probably be between two and five months from now. Look out for the announcement on this blog, our Twitter, and our Facebook page.

Thanks for your help in making FtBCon awesome. We apologize again for having to postpone and hope that you’ll be able to join us for the new date. If you have any questions, let us know.
"Unexpected circumstances"? Which do you think those might be? Avi passing his last medical school courses? Book sales flagging for PZ & Greta? Ophelia having to keep tabs on Dawkins' tweets & issue corrective posts whenever he strays?

(Summer probably wasn't a good time anyway, at least for people with northern hemisphere privilege.)
I assume it was schedule almost a year in advance. Having multiple organizers be too busy for something scheduled this far in advance is strange. The only thing I can think of is that this shindig just wasn't that important to any of them to clear their schedule & prepare. Probably not enough speakers signed up.

Also, about the only big news recently is that pz myers made a complete ass of himself recently to such a degree that even the SJWers don't feel overly inclined to defend him.

SoylentAtheist

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34841

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Pitchguest wrote:But if previous instances have anything to say anything about the outcome of this, it will soon be forgotten, history will be rewritten and she will be looked upon as a shining beacon of feminism. Probably invited to talks, possibly Tedx, and who knows; she might even get an award for her troubles. Fuck knows. This industry is becoming a slum.
Tedx? Awards night party? What woman on the face of this planet is going to want their husband or boyfriend to attend an event she will be at? We already clearly know that those to status mean absolutely nothing to her.

Brive1987
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34842

Post by Brive1987 »


Brive1987
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34843

Post by Brive1987 »

SoylentAtheist wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:
austin wrote:So terrible, fTbCON has been postponed. May the real reason be that maybe only 50-100 people actually care, just like the other times. Who can endure the Lousy Canuck drone on for hours unless you have insomnia.
http://ftbcon.org/
Miri wrote:FtBCon 3 Postponed: Please Read

Due to some unexpected circumstances for a few of the FtBCon organizers, we have decided to postpone the conference for a few months. We know that you have kept your schedules open for next weekend and we apologize for this, but it’s the best way to make sure that the conference is as well-organized and fun as we want it to be.

We’re working on setting a new date together with all our panel organizers so that as many of them can participate as possible. We’ll have a date set by next weekend, and the rescheduled conference will probably be between two and five months from now. Look out for the announcement on this blog, our Twitter, and our Facebook page.

Thanks for your help in making FtBCon awesome. We apologize again for having to postpone and hope that you’ll be able to join us for the new date. If you have any questions, let us know.
"Unexpected circumstances"? Which do you think those might be? Avi passing his last medical school courses? Book sales flagging for PZ & Greta? Ophelia having to keep tabs on Dawkins' tweets & issue corrective posts whenever he strays?

(Summer probably wasn't a good time anyway, at least for people with northern hemisphere privilege.)
I assume it was schedule almost a year in advance. Having multiple organizers be too busy for something scheduled this far in advance is strange. The only thing I can think of is that this shindig just wasn't that important to any of them to clear their schedule & prepare. Probably not enough speakers signed up.

Also, about the only big news recently is that pz myers made a complete ass of himself recently to such a degree that even the SJWers don't feel overly inclined to defend him.
I think they were refreshingly honest.

Whats -
the best way to make sure that the conference is as ... fun as we want it to be.
?

Clearly an indefinite postponement.

Guesthouse

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34844

Post by Guesthouse »

That's something that came up with the Watson moving to San Fran, it where the games journalists live. Take that for what you will. Also Fuck Dawkins for saying he would abort a child with downs.

Brive1987
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34845

Post by Brive1987 »

Ophelia writes fiendishly good copy:
Reading it again reminds me what a fiendishly good writer Michael is. Read the whole post, because it’s fiendishly good. I’ll just extract a little, because it’s relevant.

Brive1987
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34846

Post by Brive1987 »

Guesthouse wrote:Also Fuck Dawkins for saying he would abort a child with downs.
Indeed, I always prefer the "just don't have time" line.

I think the only problem with Dawkins is him saying it would be immoral not to abort.
But then that's obviously just his opinion. I don't get the vibe he is an 'objective' morality type of guy.

Badger3k
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34847

Post by Badger3k »

jet_lagg wrote:
Badger3k wrote: Unless PZ was present at the time, or was offered drinks by Shermer, it's not first hand anything.
I'm going to cut you some slack and assume this is a subject that gets your blood pressure up, and as such you didn't think very hard about what I could have meant.

We have the alleged victim's own words. That is first hand. If PZ had paraphrased what he'd heard from her, that would then be second hand. If someone then paraphrased PZ's paraphrased version of the initial person's story, that would become third hand. As you said, it's not that hard.
I guess I'll cut you some slack since you seem to be a bit slow. I did give the dictionary definition of "first hand". We don't have first hand anything. Others have explained it to you. But, I'll try one last time:

Unless she posts it herself, it's not first hand anything. Period. Full stop. We already know the history, of which you admit you are ignorant, of how the story has changed, from an email sent to PZ from Poppy, to being someone he knows sending it directly to him. By now you must have looked at the links and videos, so I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you see the provenance is sketchy at best. If you still can't see that, then I see no sense discussing anything further. It's like arguing with Steersman, but without all the links and citations. Try not to twist the words too much to make it fit your narrative.

Brive1987
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34848

Post by Brive1987 »

Guesthouse wrote:That's something that came up with the Watson moving to San Fran, it where the games journalists live. Take that for what you will. Also Fuck Dawkins for saying he would abort a child with downs.

Btw I missed the memo that RD supports the postpartum execution of the special people. I thought we were talking foetus.

SoylentAtheist

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34849

Post by SoylentAtheist »

Guesthouse wrote:That's something that came up with the Watson moving to San Fran, it where the games journalists live. Take that for what you will. Also Fuck Dawkins for saying he would abort a child with downs.
You can rest assured that Richard Dawkins will never be a woman.

And to counter, this is probably a real decision that is made by woman.

It occurs in 11.8 out of every 10,000 births as of 2003.

There were 3,952,841 births in the US in 2012.

So assuming prenatal care & testing, that means at least 4,664 woman would have needed to make this type of decision. Most probably make this type of decision either by themselves, or husband or with a very trusted friend. I would expect most never feel free enough to talk about it at any other time. Or even considering this ethical question in advance.

Your type of language kind of intimidates people from thinking this over in advance. I think there is actual value in assessing this question open & honestly ahead of time. Very few women taking Dawkins position would want to continue a discussion with you, much less broach it. And given your position, this is your loss as you will not have an opportunity to make a case that might potentially change their minds.

Just my 2 cents.


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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34851

Post by Badger3k »

jet_lagg wrote: That's an absurd understanding of what first hand means (and that you are not at all alone in this position only illustrates my original grievance). Under that meaning, we could call autobiographical accounts second hand stories brought to us by a publishing house.
Nevermind answering my last response. If this is the level of your reasoning, seek help.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34852

Post by Badger3k »

Pitchguest wrote:
John D wrote:Just for entertainment. Here is a bunch of people fucking up the ice bucket challenge. PS - I officially hate the ice bucket challenge....
http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-comp ... 1623806797
At least it's not the "douse yourself with lighter fluid and light it" challenge.
Nah...that's for Buddhists... :rimshot:

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34853

Post by Badger3k »

free thoughtpolice wrote:
Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
That's an absurd understanding of what first hand means (and that you are not at all alone in this position only illustrates my original grievance).
What it illustrates is, your bizarre definition of "first hand" conflicts with the standard definition, universally accepted by all but yourself and the pharyngulite Horde.

Under that meaning, we could call autobiographical accounts second hand stories brought to us by a publishing house.
Trite and false. Again, I ask you: provide an example of a second hand account.
A second hand account is when PZ repeats a rumor from an anonymous accuser using ASL.
Paraphrasing is writing a phrase twice.
Paraphrasing is writing a phrase twice.
:D

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34854

Post by Badger3k »

Brive1987 wrote:PZ engages with Foley murder.

* someone should do *something* (Peez - if the hashtag failed escalate to banhammer)
* it's all our fault anyway
* then the real point of the post: Fox News is racist.

That guy is, as always, an insult.

http://i.imgur.com/1FJ9Txq.jpg
"they're symptomatic of the wreckage our adventures in the Middle East have been left behind"

WTF? :think:

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34855

Post by Badger3k »

Notung wrote:In his post on Dawkins, Myers says:
Myers wrote:Or you could read about how Bérubé schooled Peter Singer, and Singer did the right thing and changed his mind.
Does anyone have a citation for Singer changing his mind? I looked for it but couldn't find anything. I could ask on the comment thread, but...

;)

...yeah, so any of you know?
I used to read his blog, a few years back. I managed to find an archive and a listing, but the links lead nowhere

He does have a blog at the chronicles of higher education, but on a quick skim didn't see a way to search just his blog and not the whole site.

Dick Strawkins
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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34856

Post by Dick Strawkins »

SoylentAtheist wrote:
Guesthouse wrote:That's something that came up with the Watson moving to San Fran, it where the games journalists live. Take that for what you will. Also Fuck Dawkins for saying he would abort a child with downs.
You can rest assured that Richard Dawkins will never be a woman.

And to counter, this is probably a real decision that is made by woman.

It occurs in 11.8 out of every 10,000 births as of 2003.

There were 3,952,841 births in the US in 2012.

So assuming prenatal care & testing, that means at least 4,664 woman would have needed to make this type of decision. Most probably make this type of decision either by themselves, or husband or with a very trusted friend. I would expect most never feel free enough to talk about it at any other time. Or even considering this ethical question in advance.

Your type of language kind of intimidates people from thinking this over in advance. I think there is actual value in assessing this question open & honestly ahead of time. Very few women taking Dawkins position would want to continue a discussion with you, much less broach it. And given your position, this is your loss as you will not have an opportunity to make a case that might potentially change their minds.

Just my 2 cents.
As mentioned earlier, I worked for a year in a prenatal testing clinic that dealt with exactly this issue.
It was my experience that while most tests showed that the fetus was in fact normal karyotype, almost every one of the women who were found to be pregnant with a Downs syndrome fetus decided to abort.
If Dawkins had said that he would choose to abort a fetus because of this condition he is simply stating what most people (in the UK) seem to do when faced with this scenario.

On the other hand, he didn't actually state that. What he said was that it was immoral not to abort - and I disagree with that.
I think it is not completely unarguable - Notung makes a hypothetical case for it on his Skeptic Ink site:

http://www.skepticink.com/notung/2014/0 ... liability/

It's just that I don't find it particularly convincing due to the variability of symptoms in Downs syndrome cases.

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34857

Post by Badger3k »

didymos wrote: Yeah, assholes. Like drink wine and bitch on Twitter about how useless other people are.
Don't forget the toy airplane!

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Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34858

Post by Badger3k »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
PZ Myers wrote:...they're symptomatic of the wreckage our adventures in the Middle East have left behind.
Little Paul, consider yourself Hitch-slapped.

[youtube]iouhwXTQJIU[/youtube]
When you wrote it with the word missing, it made sense. Not what he wrote, but probably what he intended to write.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Contact:

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34859

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

I agree that "immoral not to abort" is not the best way to put it. Maybe "I would personally have a moral problem if it wasn't aborted" might have been better. But hey, Twitter limitations and all that.

Guesthouse

Re: Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

#34860

Post by Guesthouse »

Brive1987 wrote:
Guesthouse wrote:That's something that came up with the Watson moving to San Fran, it where the games journalists live. Take that for what you will. Also Fuck Dawkins for saying he would abort a child with downs.

Btw I missed the memo that RD supports the postpartum execution of the special people. I thought we were talking foetus.

Sorry I was typing fast and didnt edit the posts plus it's a touchy subject for me aswell.

Locked