Bleeding from the Bunghole

[Gumby]

He guilted me into donating with his bloated, empty stomach, and doe-like tearful eyes.

I really hate it when he has Sally Struthers do the voiceovers.

[Tribble]

There is some value, however, in being able to answer the question and combat these myths. It's kind of like the anti-vax people. If they ask a question, the answer "because you're an asshole" isn't likely to change their mind.

^^^^^ This.

I noticed right away that Kareem can't answer the question. Kinda telling if you ask me.

I can answer the questions with a quick google search, as I pointed out. You should try it. You'll get everything from marches against black violence (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... ce/255329/ ) to mentoring programs aimed at young black men ( http://smharveyfoundation.org/ ). But like creationists asking "where's the transitional fossils?" you have to actually be interested in getting the answers.

I can see that it'd be hard to see. Black men, on American TV, are pretty much limited to being criminals or comedians or gadflies. That there are many who try to improve their community with violence reduction, literacy volunteering, job skills volunteer, financial training, life-skills mentoring... Nobody reports that.

[mordacious1]

Need more black atheists?
Need someone with the balls to stand up to rampant radical feminism in the atheist community?
Want to kill two birds with one stone?

Recruit this guy:
http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/the-man-wit ... crotum.htm

[free thoughtpolice]

I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

Requires specialized knowledge and skills. But, honestly, isn't so hard because lawyers wouldn't be able to understand it either.

meta: Well you aren't a lawyer. How do you know they are being honest when they say they do?

[welch]

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

Hey, there's a MacSysadmin conf in sweden soon. how about y'all pony up a few grand so i can express-renew my passport and then go hang out with IT people.

Side benefit: i'll ignore this place during the conference.

That's tempting, a few days without welch ;)

if you're going to give me money, you should get something out of it :-D

[Apples]

Listen to MEE! LISTENNN! Woah hey wait, don't listen too closely now, you disturbed obsessive creeper.

Eggzackly. God forbid any SJW should be quoted fully and in context -- someone might hold them accountable for their statements!

[FlyingV]

It has also been noted on line that the name of the person making this allegation as leaked around their circle.

Another reason that *if* it happened, going to a blogger is a HUGE mistake. People will talk and figure it out. If they don't figure it out, then it's even worse because they'll still talk, but it will be about the wrong person.

[Gumby]

The long game here isn't legal Justice and PZ knows Shermer will want to keep this away from the courts, as would PZ. The end game here is shaming and warning, elevating PZ into Sainthood and offering proof that atheist/skeptic conferences are full of horrible womanisers and woman haters.

For PZ, it appears to be all a case of "who has the bigger internet balls". It's posturing, where PZ can take down one of the "big guys" and show of his power, which is really, really diminished from where it was before he latched onto Watson's coattails. It's a power struggle that PZ and his friends want to win, so they can keep themselves "employed" at conferences and in alcohol and adulation, and off real work.

I think that even if he wins, he loses. If I'm a conference manager, he never speaks again at one of my conferences. Plus I cancel his tickets and refund his money and tell him if he shows up, he'll be escorted out.

He's just too toxic and polarizing.

Exactly. What conference organizer (or speaker) would want PZ at a con where he is liable to later attack the character of those speaking or attending or managing? He's got a tattoo on his forehead now that says "PURE POISON".

PZ will end up on the micro-circuit of cons his buddies are heavily involved in organizing, but that's about it. With his big fat poisonous mouth, PZ just went, conference wise, from filet mignon to a baloney sandwich.

[Gumby]

Need more black atheists?
Need someone with the balls to stand up to rampant radical feminism in the atheist community?
Want to kill two birds with one stone?

Recruit this guy:
http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/the-man-wit ... crotum.htm

[youtube]gCHQzk2okoc[/youtube]

[Kareem]

Um... there's plenty of black people tackling black on black violence in America.

GREAT! OK, who are these people/groups?

I'm not hearing about them because, as is often the case, the voices of reason are drowned out by loudmouthed idiots. And please don't cite people who are trying to get rid of "stand your ground" laws, those are the idiots.

You're probably not hearing about them because you're not in the communities where the talks are happening. Well, that and you're allergic to google. This is the type of ignorance people assume others are operating from when they ask questions. It's pretty much like talking to a creationist who tries to stump you by asking how old the Earth or universe is, which then causes a skeptic to spaz out on a totally different creationist who honestly asks because they don't know.
So given your dislike for loudmouth idiots... well, you're not a loud talker, are you?

Exactamundo! One of the more pernicious racist myths is that black people somehow love crime and racism and do nothing to stop it because they love it so, so much. There is some value, however, in being able to answer the question and combat these myths. It's kind of like the anti-vax people. If they ask a question, the answer "because you're an asshole" isn't likely to change their mind.

First, fuck that Fonzie-ism (never understood the affection for that character, or that show)

Second, this does not alter my contention (or JT's, bless his cotton-socks) that maybe, especially when you're a conference speaker, you might wish to address a question with some patience and civility, rather than throwing a fit!

Third, I am neither Black nor American, but if I was, and most especially if was young and male, and I saw the stats for Black on Black crime, I wouldn't be worrying about Creationists. Who cares how the Earth came to be, if you can't walk on it without getting shot! I wouldn't be scolding other ethnic groups about being 'ignorant', I would be wondering why the people most like me, are the people most likely to kill me. If that's not a sign of a sick community, I'm not sure I know what is.

I don't get this thinking at all. Not every young black male lives in an area where he'll be shot and even those who do shouldn't give up intellectual inquiry until a problem he isn't part of (as in contributing to) is fixed. If anything, that would help them move away from such an area.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

In progressive circles we call that a "blog". You might have heard of it.

You mean like documenting everything Ray Comfort or Ken Ham has ever said or done in public?

Such harassment. Only a complete and total scumbag would do such a thing.

Masters of harassment are journalists... they document all this kind of stuff, and then publish it in newspapers or put it on TV!!!!!!

Sometimes they even add commentary to it to try and join the story together, or present an analysis!!!!!


The creeps!!!

[TheMan]

The long game here isn't legal Justice and PZ knows Shermer will want to keep this away from the courts, as would PZ. The end game here is shaming and warning, elevating PZ into Sainthood and offering proof that atheist/skeptic conferences are full of horrible womanisers and woman haters.

For PZ, it appears to be all a case of "who has the bigger internet balls". It's posturing, where PZ can take down one of the "big guys" and show of his power, which is really, really diminished from where it was before he latched onto Watson's coattails. It's a power struggle that PZ and his friends want to win, so they can keep themselves "employed" at conferences and in alcohol and adulation, and off real work.

I think that even if he wins, he loses. If I'm a conference manager, he never speaks again at one of my conferences. Plus I cancel his tickets and refund his money and tell him if he shows up, he'll be escorted out.

He's just too toxic and polarizing.

Why?

If PZ turns out to be correct he'd be invited to more conferences interested in a boost of women buying tickets. Rock Star PZ!

[Gumby]

Listen to MEE! LISTENNN! Woah hey wait, don't listen too closely now, you disturbed obsessive creeper.

Eggzackly. God forbid any SJW should be quoted fully and in context -- someone might hold them accountable for their statements!

That's why they were so irritable when they found out we Freezepaged every version of every one of PZ's posts about Clownfall. And by doing so, catching him trying to change his original story.

Sucks having to own your words. By the way Lsuoma, how's that edit button coming?

[Pitchguest]

In progressive circles we call that a "blog". You might have heard of it.

You mean like documenting everything Ray Comfort or Ken Ham has ever said or done in public?

Such harassment. Only a complete and total scumbag would do such a thing.

Pftthahahahahaha. So this is the person who's supposed to help PZ, Jen, et al, with their legal aid?

They've lost their fucking minds.

[VickyCaramel]

PZ seems to have Shermer by the balls here. I don't for a minute think PZ would be THAT stupid to not have sought legal advise before this course of action. My hunch is that this has been planned for a while and PZ has been sitting on this "grenade" for a considerable amount of time (co-insiding with FTB attacks on Shermer and a groing of "drunk sex" narrative) possibly verfiying the story for himself and is satisfied it's true. It's possible he met the accuser once but either way PZ will keep soem cards close to his chest and play them at the appropriate time depending on Shermers reactions.

As a point, and I'm not certain this is true in USA law but PZ is working off the legality that it's not libel if it's true. PZ has exposed enough information to remind Shermer of the incident. An incident it seems that happened a fair time ago (6 years?), that's been "dealt" with and the outcome not satifactory to the woman. The woman probably doesn't have a legal leg to stand on hence why not going to the police and probably has less of a legal leg to stand on now.

I think you may be onto something. You made me realize that about 12 years ago i was in a similar situation to PZ, having spent three years trying to get the goods on an online predator, I became mildly obsessed. Although in my case, I sent what evidence i had to his local police force, his wife, and the church for which he worked. None of this worked and in a last act of desperation I went public with my accusations posting it on the forums of some US newspapers, which I hoped would:

A) report it to the police who would be duty bound to investigate, hopefully they would have the power to get more than I did.
B) That because he was guilty, he wouldn't sue for risk of exposure.
C) Back in those days, they wouldn't be able to find me over here in the UK.

My gamble failed but luckily he was caught a few years later in a sting set up by a TV news station.

I always thought that even PZ wasn't stupid enough to do this. But if you are right and this has been kicking around for a few years, he may just be obsessed enough to do it. And if he is convinced of Shermer's guilt, he may well be gambling that Shermer won't want to go to court, and that maybe a witness will come forward and pull his arse out of the fire.

[Tribble]

I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

Requires specialized knowledge and skills. But, honestly, isn't so hard because lawyers wouldn't be able to understand it either.

meta: Well you aren't a lawyer. How do you know they are being honest when they say they do?

Lots don't. I learned that a long time ago. But most of them wash-out.

[TheMan]

As a point, and I'm not certain this is true in USA law but PZ is working off the legality that it's not libel if it's true. PZ has exposed enough information to remind Shermer of the incident. An incident it seems that happened a fair time ago (6 years?), that's been "dealt" with and the outcome not satifactory to the woman. The woman probably doesn't have a legal leg to stand on hence why not going to the police and probably has less of a legal leg to stand on now.

Well if you go by the rumor mill this alleged incident occurred in 2006, at a conference that both Shermer & PZ were at since PZ said he ran into the woman soon after the incident and she was upset. That would probably narrow it down to Skeptic/Atheistish type conferences since that is about all they have in common.

Skepticon did not exist yet.
Shermer spoke at TED, but I somehow don't see Paul Myers being at that event in 2006.
Shermer spoke at :
* TAM 4
* Beyond Belief
* Probably others, but I have not identified them.

I cannot find which if any conferences Paul Myers attended. Statements made by Myers did not specify that he spoke at the event where this occurred. In 2006 Myers had just received a best rising science blog award of some sort, so he was just getting noticed. I suspect it shouldn't be that difficult to identify which conference this occurred at if any.

It has also been noted on line that the name of the person making this allegation as leaked around their circle.

It's not important the we the "plebs" know the details...it's important the PZ makes it clear to Sherman with enough details for us "plebs" to speculate and give the story legs, (and we've helped in it's dissemination) and Sherman's memory is jolted into the present and that's he's got skeletons in the closet to deal with.

[Gumby]

Why?

If PZ turns out to be correct he'd be invited to more conferences interested in a boost of women buying tickets. Rock Star PZ!

The most PZ can hope to accomplish is not lose everything at this point. If this alleged original accuser had dirt on Shermer that could hold up in court, this whole mess never would have been tried in the court of a blogger in the first place. PZ's best hope is that Shermer just drops it. And if he does, that doesn't mean PZ is all of a sudden "right", or a rock star in the community. Con organizers would still be foolish to invite a man who thinks nothing of attacking any figure in the movement that he wants.

[SoylentAtheistGuest2]

It's a power struggle that PZ and his friends want to win, so they can keep themselves "employed" at conferences and in alcohol and adulation, and off real work.

Hmmm... perhaps the solution is far simpler than we think. What if conferences prohibited the speakers who are PAID to show up from drinking at the conferences?

I bet we could get a near 100% reduction in accusations of sexual harassment & rape.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Is PZ Meyers okay? Mentally? He's been publishing all sorts of weird shit, at a pace unlike any seen before, ever since he was served for calling someone a rapist on the internet.

Can the Trophy Wife please turn off his computer before he explodes?

[FrankGrimes]

I'll be writing to the publisher. Might take a while as I've procured the services of my father for advice - an expert in "get off my lawn," Henry Root style letters. These things take a while.

I'd like to see how you pull that off, as you don't even own the damned book. It would be like complaining to a grocer about a mouldy orange that you didn't buy. :D

Peezus now has a post up in which he directs his readers to a site where they can get a preview of The Happy Shithead Plagiarist Atheist. Why doesn't he just link to one of the 26 old posts that he copy-pasted for his masterpiece?

It will be a please explain letter, although I'd like to get a copy of the book to make sure but I don't think there's anything wrong with writing a letter with questions and quoting the Amazon book reviews. And as far as the moldy orange goes, if a grocer is trying to sell them as perfectly good oranges and people are buying them, unaware that they're moldy then there's obviously something wrong with that.

[Southern]

Just didn't get the hint last time, did you?

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

E-begging is becoming a plague nowdays. Any schmuck now tries to pocket anything from the general public via Kickstart or Indiegogo. Since Anita Sarkeesian pocketed $100K+ and that fat Amazing Atheist got $17K to make a Miro-Community powered website that embeds Youtube videos plastered by Google Ads, everyone is trying their luck. Even that fucker Richard Garioth, or whatever is his name, got money to make another shitty Ultima game.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

It has also been noted on line that the name of the person making this allegation as leaked around their circle.

Who is it? Anyone feeling generous and want to let the rest of us know? PM me if you don't want to say in public, and I will respect that by not reposting it publically.

[mikelf]

[
I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

All of which is the way it is because lawyers have spent hundreds of years making it that way. If it takes ten years of study to understand the law, something is very, very wrong with the law. Since the overwhelming majority of the law is written by lawyers, who is it you think we should blame?

It is interesting that, just today, I finished reading a 356 page document issued by the Security and Exchange Commission regarding the reporting requirements associated with the use of conflict minerals. The rule itself is one sentence long:

Every registrant that files reports with the Commission under Sections 13(a) or 15(d) of the Exchange Act, having conflict minerals that are necessary to the functionality or production of a product manufactured or contracted by that registrant to be manufactured, shall file a report on Form SD within the period specified in that Form disclosing the information required by the applicable items of Form SD as specified in that Form.

How exactly does the SEC get from that to a 356 page document? Well, I am sure to a devil-may-care party animal like yourself, it is a full employment act for attorneys. However, as a businessman who actually has to comply with the law, even as I find myself nodding off in the middle of a paragraph length sentence, I can appreciate the comprehensive and precise nature of the document. And I can clearly see the intent to ensure an accurate and consistent implementation amongst the several thousand companies subject to the rules.

Though I am sure there are many academics that might disagree, the creation of the body of law is unlike science in that it is a practical, not a theoretical, endeavor. It is also cumulative process. It has grown alongside of the development of the modern world as advanced by human affairs. Every complexity and nuance in the law is there to address some real issue, at law or equity, that has come up in real life. And is defined in such a way as to drive towards a consistent application in future matters. English common law traces back to 1189, although it's roots go back to time immemorial. 800 years of human history has led to a extremely complex and advanced society and the body of law reflects this state of affairs.

When laws aren't made overly-complex with the intent for creating lawyerly bullshit, they are made overly complex with the intent of attempting to defend against lawyerly bullshit.

Laws and contracts are made to adjudicate what happens when things go wrong. I can frame out a commercial deal on any ole thing found lying around in a hotel lounge if all I had to concern myself with what I am giving and what I am getting.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/270 ... 944826.jpg

But, between then and when the contract is complete, there is a huge number of things that can potentially go wrong. Anticipating those problems and crafting mutually agreeable methods for dealing with them make the process of resolving conflict much easier and more orderly. Similarly, a one sentence law balloons to a 356 page ruling in order to make things precise, uniform, and understandable in practice. Complexity in language leads to simplicity in execution.

In short, without the seemingly incomprehensible mountain of laws we have accumulated over the centuries, we would still be wearing bearskin loin clothes and beating each other over the head with screwdrivers.

[Ape+lust]

http://i.imgur.com/9zgTZ7c.png

2 weeks out of a year long depression and she's spinning like a top.

[BarnOwl]

O/T for everything except the hyperbolic crochet - for Steersman and anyone else interested in knitted Klein bottles or other fiber representations of mathematical structures:

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues ... knitting/1

[Apples]

Sounds like Popehat is trying to cover his own ass. In related news, we have a Kwok sighting. Apparently he's been bothering Greg Laden (now, there are two who belong together). I wonder if Kwok has gotten around to reviewing PZs book?

Holy fucking shit they are rancid peas in a pod. Reminds me of the piss-out-the-window attempted-rape boardinghouse video -- Laden is like, "Stop raping me!" And Kwok is like, "stop hitting me! Call the police!" Or maybe it's the other way around. Comedy gold.

[Southern]

In short, when that first clever asshole said "Ah, but you never said exactly what you mean by the word 'theft' in that decree," instead of carefully defining the word, we should have hanged the fucker.

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". - (Henry VI (Part II) Act IV, Scene II).

[youtube]OhkmOThIySc[/youtube]

[Pitchguest]

Does this Storify by @elevatorgate document activity of ideological opponents, Ken, you fucking clownshoe?

http://storify.com/elevatorgate/convers ... -submanusn

Ah, but for you to know this, you would have to trawl through his history - which you claim in your tweet that you did. Yeah. Let's tack on "lying" to that, shall we?

This would all be very amusing, if it weren't for the fact that this is the person that's going to help PZ and his victim to get justice, and he can't even get his facts straight. Good luck with that, PZ. Hope you don't feel to bad throwing your friend of a friend under the bus. You may have reached out to Ken to help you, but it seems all he's vying for is a part in your new movie. *honk honk*

[FlyingV]

E-begging is becoming a plague nowdays. Any schmuck now tries to pocket anything from the general public via Kickstart or Indiegogo. Since Anita Sarkeesian pocketed $100K+ and that fat Amazing Atheist got $17K to make a Miro-Community powered website that embeds Youtube videos plastered by Google Ads, everyone is trying their luck. Even that fucker Richard Garioth, or whatever is his name, got money to make another shitty Ultima game.

Well, f*** me. I'm in the wrong damn business.

[real horrorshow]

Cause you know..us men...everything we say is just a way of impressing your knickers off and when that isnt working properly...have another glass.

Brother-punisher, cuddle-boy, chastity-enabler!

[real horrorshow]

I think that even if he wins, he loses. If I'm a conference manager, he never speaks again at one of my conferences. Plus I cancel his tickets and refund his money and tell him if he shows up, he'll be escorted out.

He's just too toxic and polarizing.

Exactly. What conference organizer (or speaker) would want PZ at a con where he is liable to later attack the character of those speaking or attending or managing? He's got a tattoo on his forehead now that says "PURE POISON".

PZ will end up on the micro-circuit of cons his buddies are heavily involved in organizing, but that's about it. With his big fat poisonous mouth, PZ just went, conference wise, from filet mignon to a baloney sandwich.

Umm, the same fucking morons who've been gravy-training him so far? The A/S con scene in the US has been a fucking shambles for years.

[KiwiInOz]

Spacklick, I am very sorry to hear you were hit by a bus even though the way you just tacked the fact onto the end of your comment made it slightly hilarious.

That's what you get when you try to lick the windows while the bus is moving.

[Tribble]

For PZ, it appears to be all a case of "who has the bigger internet balls". It's posturing, where PZ can take down one of the "big guys" and show of his power, which is really, really diminished from where it was before he latched onto Watson's coattails. It's a power struggle that PZ and his friends want to win, so they can keep themselves "employed" at conferences and in alcohol and adulation, and off real work.

I think that even if he wins, he loses. If I'm a conference manager, he never speaks again at one of my conferences. Plus I cancel his tickets and refund his money and tell him if he shows up, he'll be escorted out.

He's just too toxic and polarizing.

Why?

If PZ turns out to be correct he'd be invited to more conferences interested in a boost of women buying tickets. Rock Star PZ!

Because being right in this one area would empower him to throw his weight around more, use the bully pulpit more and continue his dysfunctional behavior regardless of the clear harm it's causing in the community. If Shermer ends up guilty, or fails to win his points in Court, you're handing a flaming asshole like Myers justification, validation and credibility that feeds into his God Complex and will almost certainly ramp-up the witch hunts, bullying and whatnot dramatically.

And has that, so far, been a good thing in the atheist community? Or a bad thing? And does Myers inspire people to come, or does his bullshit line of these being 'harassment fests' with 'potential rapists everywhere' serve to give pause?

Also, his behavior hasn't helped him, either. He's gotten, a few times, an increase in traffic because of his controversies. But his Internet footprint has dropped significantly since he started this war in the atheist community. Do I really want to follow in the footsteps of a man who is slowly, but surely, destroying his reputation? I don't think so.

Myers is clearly toxic to his own brand. I don't need him shitting on mine by association.

[ShameMaggot]

Doesn't look like begging to me. Looks more like "Hey, did anyone here like what I wrote before? I did. If you want to see more of it, the money's got to come for somewhere, so would you mind chipping in? Thanks." I dunno, maybe in your head, if a musician tries to fund a tour with Kickstarter, that's e-begging, too.

I’m an elitist snob who keeps a tight grip on his cheddar when it comes to me forking over my slave wages in terms of engaging content….but…

What ever it is you want to call Justin asking for money, I’d still rather not see it encouraged. I’d really hesitate to call what Justin does art and I’m more inclined to see it as some cretin trying to build a career as some kind of pundit masquerading as an activist. There was a charm watching people flip their shit about his presence at the second WIS, but it fades real quick due to his inability to provide any kind of insight or perspective that doesn’t read/hear much better than what Matt Dillahunty creates when he mashes those sausage fingers into his keyboard enough times to produce a “speech” for a convention.

[SoylentAtheistGuest2]

http://i.imgur.com/9zgTZ7c.png
2 weeks out of a year long depression and she's spinning like a top.

Twist ending. The anonymous accuser is Jen.

[TheMan]

PZ seems to have Shermer by the balls here. I don't for a minute think PZ would be THAT stupid to not have sought legal advise before this course of action. My hunch is that this has been planned for a while and PZ has been sitting on this "grenade" for a considerable amount of time (co-insiding with FTB attacks on Shermer and a groing of "drunk sex" narrative) possibly verfiying the story for himself and is satisfied it's true. It's possible he met the accuser once but either way PZ will keep soem cards close to his chest and play them at the appropriate time depending on Shermers reactions.

As a point, and I'm not certain this is true in USA law but PZ is working off the legality that it's not libel if it's true. PZ has exposed enough information to remind Shermer of the incident. An incident it seems that happened a fair time ago (6 years?), that's been "dealt" with and the outcome not satifactory to the woman. The woman probably doesn't have a legal leg to stand on hence why not going to the police and probably has less of a legal leg to stand on now.

I think you may be onto something. You made me realize that about 12 years ago i was in a similar situation to PZ, having spent three years trying to get the goods on an online predator, I became mildly obsessed. Although in my case, I sent what evidence i had to his local police force, his wife, and the church for which he worked. None of this worked and in a last act of desperation I went public with my accusations posting it on the forums of some US newspapers, which I hoped would:

A) report it to the police who would be duty bound to investigate, hopefully they would have the power to get more than I did.
B) That because he was guilty, he wouldn't sue for risk of exposure.
C) Back in those days, they wouldn't be able to find me over here in the UK.

My gamble failed but luckily he was caught a few years later in a sting set up by a TV news station.

I always thought that even PZ wasn't stupid enough to do this. But if you are right and this has been kicking around for a few years, he may just be obsessed enough to do it. And if he is convinced of Shermer's guilt, he may well be gambling that Shermer won't want to go to court, and that maybe a witness will come forward and pull his arse out of the fire.

One needs a nice pile of resources and a ready built army of "followers" to pull it off and I would be surprised that as they have been laying the foundations of "sexist men at conventions" they havent also been building up a fighting fund. This would have been talked about in the FTB back channels and ties in with the "with us or against us" line.... it's code.

I know I'm painting a rather intricate conspiracy theory here but heck.... it's fun. Fun because it's a better story when one works on the premise that PZ has been very thourough, has planned this for a couple of years, and actually has something solid and tangible as an ace up his sleeve...worst case scenario is that the accuser turns out to have sucked PZ right in and she just felt like a "dirty dirty" woman in the morning after and has mythologised the story over a few years. PZ apologies, exits the scene, splash damage to Watson, Szan, Ophelia...more lolz for some...Shermer never gets a shag at a conference again

[ShameMaggot]

E-begging is becoming a plague nowdays. Any schmuck now tries to pocket anything from the general public via Kickstart or Indiegogo. Since Anita Sarkeesian pocketed $100K+ and that fat Amazing Atheist got $17K to make a Miro-Community powered website that embeds Youtube videos plastered by Google Ads, everyone is trying their luck. Even that fucker Richard Garioth, or whatever is his name, got money to make another shitty Ultima game.

Lots of studios are quietly behind some of those kick starters too. Even indie film and music isn’t safe from them…

[ShameMaggot]

Twist ending. The anonymous accuser is Jen.

lol

[Pitchguest]

http://i.imgur.com/9zgTZ7c.png
2 weeks out of a year long depression and she's spinning like a top.

Twist ending. The anonymous accuser is Jen.

I really wouldn't give a shit if it was Richard Dawkins in a wig. If they don't have sufficient evidence to prove RAPE, they're dead in the water.

I honestly can't wait to read what kind of diarrhoea of the mouth the queen of A+ will concoct, but I bet it will be glorious. Like A+.

[Tribble]

I think that even if he wins, he loses. If I'm a conference manager, he never speaks again at one of my conferences. Plus I cancel his tickets and refund his money and tell him if he shows up, he'll be escorted out.

He's just too toxic and polarizing.

Exactly. What conference organizer (or speaker) would want PZ at a con where he is liable to later attack the character of those speaking or attending or managing? He's got a tattoo on his forehead now that says "PURE POISON".

PZ will end up on the micro-circuit of cons his buddies are heavily involved in organizing, but that's about it. With his big fat poisonous mouth, PZ just went, conference wise, from filet mignon to a baloney sandwich.

Umm, the same fucking morons who've been gravy-training him so far? The A/S con scene in the US has been a fucking shambles for years.

As long as his attacks were limited to creationists or abstract concepts in atheism he disagreed with he got a free pass. Now he's going after the people who ran the events that he'd spoken at.

[Gumby]

I think that even if he wins, he loses. If I'm a conference manager, he never speaks again at one of my conferences. Plus I cancel his tickets and refund his money and tell him if he shows up, he'll be escorted out.

He's just too toxic and polarizing.

Exactly. What conference organizer (or speaker) would want PZ at a con where he is liable to later attack the character of those speaking or attending or managing? He's got a tattoo on his forehead now that says "PURE POISON".

PZ will end up on the micro-circuit of cons his buddies are heavily involved in organizing, but that's about it. With his big fat poisonous mouth, PZ just went, conference wise, from filet mignon to a baloney sandwich.

Umm, the same fucking morons who've been gravy-training him so far? The A/S con scene in the US has been a fucking shambles for years.

Yeah, no argument there, but at the same time this is serious escalation from PZ's usual assholiness, and I figure that for con organizers and big name speakers, self-preservation has to kick in at some point. DJ George figured it out early (relatively) and somewhere, he's smiling.

[Pitchguest]

This would all be very amusing, if it weren't for the fact that this is the person that's going to help PZ and his victim to get justice, and he can't even get his facts straight. Good luck with that, PZ. Hope you don't feel to bad throwing your friend of a friend under the bus. You may have reached out to Ken to help you, but it seems all he's vying for is a part in your new movie. *honk honk*

Just so people know what I'm talking about (at the risk of ruining the joke):

[youtube]xl9kGhLKkbI[/youtube]

[TheMudbrooker]

Why?

If PZ turns out to be correct he'd be invited to more conferences interested in a boost of women buying tickets. Rock Star PZ!

The most PZ can hope to accomplish is not lose everything at this point. If this alleged original accuser had dirt on Shermer that could hold up in court, this whole mess never would have been tried in the court of a blogger in the first place. PZ's best hope is that Shermer just drops it. And if he does, that doesn't mean PZ is all of a sudden "right", or a rock star in the community. Con organizers would still be foolish to invite a man who thinks nothing of attacking any figure in the movement that he wants.

It'll be interesting to watch how many conferences the FTB get invited to in the next year. It's unlikely at this point anyone would drop them from engagements they already have booked, but by next spring I think we'll see a drop in the number (especially for the lesser luminaries at FTB) of speaking gigs.

Something else to keep in mind, this drama will unfold in judicial time, not internet time. So far no Summons and Complaint has been filed by Shermer, if and when he does PZ will have 30-90 days (depending on the rules of whatever jurisdiction it's filed in) to respond followed by months and months of motions, subpoenas, discovery, depositions and other legal minutae. Even if both parties move it along as fast as possible, it's unlikely there'll be a court date set, if it gets that far, for 1 1/2-2 years. Conference organizers will have a lot of time to consider whether or not PZ is enough of a draw to risk inviting.

[TheMan]

Because being right in this one area would empower him to throw his weight around more, use the bully pulpit more and continue his dysfunctional behavior regardless of the clear harm it's causing in the community. If Shermer ends up guilty, or fails to win his points in Court, you're handing a flaming asshole like Myers justification, validation and credibility that feeds into his God Complex and will almost certainly ramp-up the witch hunts, bullying and whatnot dramatically.

And has that, so far, been a good thing in the atheist community? Or a bad thing? And does Myers inspire people to come, or does his bullshit line of these being 'harassment fests' with 'potential rapists everywhere' serve to give pause?

Also, his behavior hasn't helped him, either. He's gotten, a few times, an increase in traffic because of his controversies. But his Internet footprint has dropped significantly since he started this war in the atheist community. Do I really want to follow in the footsteps of a man who is slowly, but surely, destroying his reputation? I don't think so.

Myers is clearly toxic to his own brand. I don't need him shitting on mine by association.

PZ will be the St.George that kills the "men like Shermer" dragon if PZ is correct. I know...hazzard the tought but it needs to be at least contemplated. What happens after could go in many directions but they would push for good men like Peezus, who will bring salvation to all A/S conferences, and male speakers will have to pass the Peezus and Bekky test. And swear an oath on the Holy Guidlines.

His reputation, like his beuty is in the eye of the beholder..... there are many many more SJW's than true skeptics...what ever a skeptic really is these days.

[Gumby]

Yeah, no argument there, but at the same time this is serious escalation from PZ's usual assholiness, and I figure that for con organizers and big name speakers, self-preservation has to kick in at some point. DJ George figured it out early (relatively) and somewhere, he's smiling.

Um, DJ Grothe that is. Fucking autocorrect.

[VickyCaramel]

I know I'm painting a rather intricate conspiracy theory here but heck.... it's fun. Fun because it's a better story when one works on the premise that PZ has been very thourough, has planned this for a couple of years, and actually has something solid and tangible as an ace up his sleeve...worst case scenario is that the accuser turns out to have sucked PZ right in and she just felt like a "dirty dirty" woman in the morning after and has mythologised the story over a few years. PZ apologies, exits the scene, splash damage to Watson, Szan, Ophelia...more lolz for some...Shermer never gets a shag at a conference again

I may risk sounding like a complete bitch but what the heck... they attract the most pathetic bunch of losers on the internet. I am in no doubt that some of them cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality, others still have lives so empty that they relish the attention that comes with being in a war with the skeptic community (You don't have to go far to find women that cut themselves in order to feel something rather than nothing), and it isn't hard to imagine that there are at least a dozen among them who would make up stories for attention.

[real horrorshow]

I don't get this thinking at all. Not every young black male lives in an area where he'll be shot and even those who do shouldn't give up intellectual inquiry until a problem he isn't part of (as in contributing to) is fixed. If anything, that would help them move away from such an area.

Oh, I agree with all of that. I'm just wondering about the legitimacy of first:

Dismissing the interest (in black on black crime) of anyone who isn't a young black male living in an area where he'll be shot, as somehow racist. Which is what Jen and Bria Crutchfield seem to be doing.

And second: Dismissing the idea that black on black crime (especially the shooting of young males) should be of concern to all black Americans regardless of where they live. It's the single biggest killer of young, black, American males. If I fell into that demographic, I'd think: what if I go to the wrong part of town/to a strange town? The biggest, statistical risk to your life should be of concern shouldn't it?

[Gumby]

It'll be interesting to watch how many conferences the FTB get invited to in the next year. It's unlikely at this point anyone would drop them from engagements they already have booked, but by next spring I think we'll see a drop in the number (especially for the lesser luminaries at FTB) of speaking gigs.

Something else to keep in mind, this drama will unfold in judicial time, not internet time. So far no Summons and Complaint has been filed by Shermer, if and when he does PZ will have 30-90 days (depending on the rules of whatever jurisdiction it's filed in) to respond followed by months and months of motions, subpoenas, discovery, depositions and other legal minutae. Even if both parties move it along as fast as possible, it's unlikely there'll be a court date set, if it gets that far, for 1 1/2-2 years. Conference organizers will have a lot of time to consider whether or not PZ is enough of a draw to risk inviting.

Understood, and agreed. However, I have to wonder how many organizers may play it safe by dumping Myers and his poisonous pals now, for future cons that are not already booked. As you say, we've got plenty of time to watch it all unfold.

[Steersman]

O/T for everything except the hyperbolic crochet - for Steersman and anyone else interested in knitted Klein bottles or other fiber representations of mathematical structures:

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues ... knitting/1

Cool. Thanks for the link. I find topology kind of interesting, although I'm not much more than a dilettante, but having physical models certainly helps with visualization and understanding. Something that seems to be more and more common, at least according to the previous article.

[Hunt]

PZ seems to have Shermer by the balls here. I don't for a minute think PZ would be THAT stupid to not have sought legal advise before this course of action. My hunch is that this has been planned for a while and PZ has been sitting on this "grenade" for a considerable amount of time (co-insiding with FTB attacks on Shermer and a groing of "drunk sex" narrative) possibly verfiying the story for himself and is satisfied it's true. It's possible he met the accuser once but either way PZ will keep soem cards close to his chest and play them at the appropriate time depending on Shermers reactions.

I don't really buy this version. Remember this all came in the context of the "tidal wave" of revelations, the Shermer story came after the Krauss allegations. PZ presented it as a person coming forward (Ms. Doe). If it was actually a conspiracy, fact based or not, they would obviously want to downplay that aspect of it, but somehow I doubt it. Maybe it was actually Doe seeing this as an opportunity to finally achieve justice, or maybe it was Ms. Doe finally seeing an opportunity to put a knife in Shermer's back for another, non-sexual disgruntlement. Either way, there is one thing we can say about Doe with certainty: instead of presenting her case directly, she was okay with Myers doing it for her. I realize this is potentially a horrible thing to say, because if she is being honest, it's impugning the character of a person who was raped. But if she's either being dishonest or unreliable, it seems to be a pertinent thing to note about her character. She's a person willing to jeopardize another's' career instead of acting directly. The great problem is we just don't enough information to know anything for sure, and the infuriating thing is that this seems to be an acceptable state for Myers, now and forever. I can (sort of) understand making an assertion like this with the promise of complete information forthcoming, but there was never anything like that kind of assertion! It was just like "I'm saying this. Believe me, leave all your trust in me, damn Shermer and your right to make an informed decision, and that's that." This is unacceptable to any skeptic.

[Gumby]

http://i.imgur.com/9zgTZ7c.png

2 weeks out of a year long depression and she's spinning like a top.

And of course, she has to build up the drama with that tweet, instead of just not saying anything in advance and just writing the fucking post. They really know how to milk their followers for attention.

[Gumby]

Is PZ Meyers okay? Mentally? He's been publishing all sorts of weird shit, at a pace unlike any seen before, ever since he was served for calling someone a rapist on the internet.

Can the Trophy Wife please turn off his computer before he explodes?

No, we need to call in Jen's boyfriend. He has a proven track record at ordering people off the internet.

[Gumby]

E-begging is becoming a plague nowdays. Any schmuck now tries to pocket anything from the general public via Kickstart or Indiegogo. Since Anita Sarkeesian pocketed $100K+ and that fat Amazing Atheist got $17K to make a Miro-Community powered website that embeds Youtube videos plastered by Google Ads, everyone is trying their luck. Even that fucker Richard Garioth, or whatever is his name, got money to make another shitty Ultima game.

Everything else is going online, the panhandlers and their street corners may as well go virtual too, eh?

[TheMan]

I know I'm painting a rather intricate conspiracy theory here but heck.... it's fun. Fun because it's a better story when one works on the premise that PZ has been very thourough, has planned this for a couple of years, and actually has something solid and tangible as an ace up his sleeve...worst case scenario is that the accuser turns out to have sucked PZ right in and she just felt like a "dirty dirty" woman in the morning after and has mythologised the story over a few years. PZ apologies, exits the scene, splash damage to Watson, Szan, Ophelia...more lolz for some...Shermer never gets a shag at a conference again

I may risk sounding like a complete bitch but what the heck... they attract the most pathetic bunch of losers on the internet. I am in no doubt that some of them cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality, others still have lives so empty that they relish the attention that comes with being in a war with the skeptic community (You don't have to go far to find women that cut themselves in order to feel something rather than nothing), and it isn't hard to imagine that there are at least a dozen among them who would make up stories for attention.

What ever they are it's been demonstrated that are a malleable lot and can be considered a resource to propell the right noises when needed. They come in handy for them.

[Rystefn]

[
I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

All of which is the way it is because lawyers have spent hundreds of years making it that way. If it takes ten years of study to understand the law, something is very, very wrong with the law. Since the overwhelming majority of the law is written by lawyers, who is it you think we should blame?

It is interesting that, just today, I finished reading a 356 page document issued by the Security and Exchange Commission regarding the reporting requirements associated with the use of conflict minerals. The rule itself is one sentence long:

Every registrant that files reports with the Commission under Sections 13(a) or 15(d) of the Exchange Act, having conflict minerals that are necessary to the functionality or production of a product manufactured or contracted by that registrant to be manufactured, shall file a report on Form SD within the period specified in that Form disclosing the information required by the applicable items of Form SD as specified in that Form.

How exactly does the SEC get from that to a 356 page document? Well, I am sure to a devil-may-care party animal like yourself, it is a full employment act for attorneys. However, as a businessman who actually has to comply with the law, even as I find myself nodding off in the middle of a paragraph length sentence, I can appreciate the comprehensive and precise nature of the document. And I can clearly see the intent to ensure an accurate and consistent implementation amongst the several thousand companies subject to the rules.

Though I am sure there are many academics that might disagree, the creation of the body of law is unlike science in that it is a practical, not a theoretical, endeavor. It is also cumulative process. It has grown alongside of the development of the modern world as advanced by human affairs. Every complexity and nuance in the law is there to address some real issue, at law or equity, that has come up in real life. And is defined in such a way as to drive towards a consistent application in future matters. English common law traces back to 1189, although it's roots go back to time immemorial. 800 years of human history has led to a extremely complex and advanced society and the body of law reflects this state of affairs.

When laws aren't made overly-complex with the intent for creating lawyerly bullshit, they are made overly complex with the intent of attempting to defend against lawyerly bullshit.

Laws and contracts are made to adjudicate what happens when things go wrong. I can frame out a commercial deal on any ole thing found lying around in a hotel lounge if all I had to concern myself with what I am giving and what I am getting.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/270 ... 944826.jpg

But, between then and when the contract is complete, there is a huge number of things that can potentially go wrong. Anticipating those problems and crafting mutually agreeable methods for dealing with them make the process of resolving conflict much easier and more orderly. Similarly, a one sentence law balloons to a 356 page ruling in order to make things precise, uniform, and understandable in practice. Complexity in language leads to simplicity in execution.

In short, without the seemingly incomprehensible mountain of laws we have accumulated over the centuries, we would still be wearing bearskin loin clothes and beating each other over the head with screwdrivers.

Yes... it's the incomprehensible mountain of laws that is the reason we have technology somehow... That totally holds up. My response to your 356-page monstrosity to ensure everyone is on the same page and everything is enforced equally is the same as my response to all the ponderous thousands of books and books of laws written to "address some real issue, at law or equity, that has come up in real life." Interestingly, it is also the same thing I already said before:

In short, when that first clever asshole said "Ah, but you never said exactly what you mean by the word 'theft' in that decree," instead of carefully defining the word, we should have hanged the fucker.

[Guest]

I dunno. Somehow calling Watson a bitch was supposed to be my expert plan to get old white guy cock, and according to Miriam Nazmaki everyone is crazy for the black cock, so HIV research must logically lead to huge, throbbing, black cocks.

Also, wait-- Isnt this 'IM SO OFFENDED BAH UR RACE-ISMS!' from the same Jen McCreight who said that atheists/skeptics needed to appeal to black folk by talking more about prison and drugs?

Jesus fuck that woman is fucking stupid.

Thanks for the relevant reminder.

This is for you, Jen. Because you're so adorable:

http://i.imgur.com/EnxGnQq.png

Hmm...who wrote that? Jen? Because if she did, it seems like she's directly punishing her sister Ashley Paramore, who specifically told Dawkins that he might think of reproducing in order to create more skeptics. If that was Jen, I hope someone points it out to her.

[SkepticalCat]

And second: Dismissing the idea that black on black crime (especially the shooting of young males) should be of concern to all black Americans regardless of where they live. It's the single biggest killer of young, black, American males. If I fell into that demographic, I'd think: what if I go to the wrong part of town/to a strange town? The biggest, statistical risk to your life should be of concern shouldn't it?

I'm not sure what your point is here, since, while indeed young American black males who are murdered are usually murdered by other young black males, it is also the case that young American white males are most often murdered by other young white males, and young American Latino males are usually murdered by other young Latino males. What are whites doing about white-on-white violence? What are Latinos doing about Latino-on-Latino violence? As for me, I'm not doing anything, except locking my doors, avoiding bad neighborhoods, watching my back at night, etc.

[AndrewV69]

Wait-- I thought I was a Chill Girl who only did HIV research to get huge, black cock?

Ohhhhhh! Be still my beating heart! Quotemine time:

Abbie Smith confesses in the Slymepit she is a "Chill Girl" only does HIV research to get her some "huge black cock":

I .. a Chill Girl who only did HIV research to get huge, black cock

Annnnd she doubles down!!!

HIV research must logically lead to huge, throbbing, black cocks.

/faints_dead_away

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

http://i.imgur.com/9zgTZ7c.png
2 weeks out of a year long depression and she's spinning like a top.

Twist ending. The anonymous accuser is Jen.

I really wouldn't give a shit if it was Richard Dawkins in a wig. If they don't have sufficient evidence to prove RAPE, they're dead in the water.

I honestly can't wait to read what kind of diarrhoea of the mouth the queen of A+ will concoct, but I bet it will be glorious. Like A+.

I presume it is an apology to a famous atheist, along with a full retraction of any and all claims she has made concerning his conduct with women. Well, I fucking hope so.