Bleeding from the Bunghole

[Kareem]

Um... there's plenty of black people tackling black on black violence in America.

GREAT! OK, who are these people/groups?

I'm not hearing about them because, as is often the case, the voices of reason are drowned out by loudmouthed idiots. And please don't cite people who are trying to get rid of "stand your ground" laws, those are the idiots.

You're probably not hearing about them because you're not in the communities where the talks are happening. Well, that and you're allergic to google. This is the type of ignorance people assume others are operating from when they ask questions. It's pretty much like talking to a creationist who tries to stump you by asking how old the Earth or universe is, which then causes a skeptic to spaz out on a totally different creationist who honestly asks because they don't know.
So given your dislike for loudmouth idiots... well, you're not a loud talker, are you?

[mikelf]

Isn't asking what the black community doing about black-on-black crime within the black community a lot less racist than ignoring the problem, or assuming the larger community needs to sort it out for them?

Being black isn't a matter of choice. It doesn't come with specific believes or responsibilities. Which begs the question why one alleges some "black community" different from "us", having special responsibilities. Isn't fighting crime the responsibility of all?
Besides, I guess it's tiresome to always be confronted with the full package of racial prejudice, which is inevitable when talking to social justards (well ok, it was Crommunist's own idiotic choice to be there). They are so unaware of their soft racism that whenever they "reach out" to minorities, it always sounds like a patronizing, racial slur.

This response is good. The question of what the black community is doing about black-on-black crime contains some implicit stereotyping. The embedded assumption is that the black community is some monolith that has a uniform interest in the problem, uniform understanding of the problem and, to a great extent, some collective responsibility to address the problem. In short, the question denies, or at least ignores that the black community is made up of individuals that only are united by their skin color. Beyond that, they will span the entire gamut of human interests and abilities. It really isn't much different than someone walking up to me or Welch or one of the other crackers around here and asking us what the white community is doing about the problem of ultra-nationalist, neo-Nazi, white power organizations. Beats the fuck outta me. I haven't taken that issue on.

And, I would point out, that it wasn't too long ago that the pit was (rightfully) excoriating "Jenny from the (Gated) Neighborhood" McCreight for saying that more minorities might be more interested in joining the skeptical community if we took on issues important to them like incarceration rates. Are such questions racist? Maybe. At best, they seem to come from people who just don't have much day-to-day interaction with minorities beyond what they see on the evening news or walking down the street on their way to work.

[Ä uest]

Just out of curiosity, why would you think those tweets qualify as misandry? I can see that they have some sort of a hate-on for Thunderf00t, but I don’t see that that hate is because he is a man, i.e., because of misandry – “hatred of men” simply because they are men.

Point. But that was not why I did it.

First however, your point. Calling an individual man a dick is is no more evidence of misandry than a man calling an individual woman a bitch is no evidence of misogyny.

However, my impression is that all too often when a man does it, and included some reference to violence it is generally taken as evidence of misogyny.

So, by that "logic" a woman who wants to take to take a pick-axe to Thunderfoot because of his video is misandry.

All I did (or at least that was my intent) was to point that out. I doubt that it was successful though. Which reminds me to check and see if there was a response.

As it turns out there was. One here:

And here:

I think I failed to make my point. I could be wrong, but I do not think so.

Seems rather difficult to actually prove things like misandry or misogyny as it seems to require fairly explicit statements to qualify, like, “all men are pricks”, or “all women are cunts”. Rather analogous, to throw the fox in amongst the chickens again – so to speak, to “all blacks are niggers” which qualifies as racist whereas “Malcolm X is a nigger” isn’t.

But the difficulty of proving that charge is why I think many SJWs – Jason Thibeault, and Sarah Jones, for examples – refuse to actually provide their own definition for “misogyny” as I expect they know their asses are hanging out in the breeze on that point.

Indeed.

So by "my" rules, their hating on *you* is not misandry. But by *their* rules, well, calling a woman a "babe" is misogyny.

http://i.imgur.com/Rvr4RVE.jpg

Now in "my" rules, everyone should have a reasonable sense of humor, but clearly that is not the case in "their rules", so by "their rules" any sort of violence should be called out as unacceptable, not defended and rationalized as they do.

[ERV]

Wait-- I thought I was a Chill Girl who only did HIV research to get huge, black cock?

Your research will get you a huge black cock???????

I dunno. Somehow calling Watson a bitch was supposed to be my expert plan to get old white guy cock, and according to Miriam Nazmaki everyone is crazy for the black cock, so HIV research must logically lead to huge, throbbing, black cocks.

Also, wait-- Isnt this 'IM SO OFFENDED BAH UR RACE-ISMS!' from the same Jen McCreight who said that atheists/skeptics needed to appeal to black folk by talking more about prison and drugs?

Jesus fuck that woman is fucking stupid.

[Tribble]

PZ needs to stir things up fast as the traffic from accusing people of raping is dropping.

http://berryinternet.com.au/graph.png

Here is the longer term graph showing the slow decline

http://berryinternet.com.au/graph1.png

Some fuck-head somewhere put words in my mouth that I said PZ Myers was doing this for 'blog hits.' Then he proceeded to say that it didn't.

So, I hit the clown with Thunderf00ts video which contains the Google analytics (showing the same thing) and Alexa, which you just put up.

At peak Fainting Couch, FTB has achieved hits higher than it has ever had in the past, including its peak in December, 2012 when they had their 'best' stable of writers and most controversy and had driven off the fewest people. Since then it'd been falling on a steady decline until this episode.

I hope like hell the slide to irrelevance accelerates after the drama as they are toxic as hell.

[EdwardGemmer]

Um... there's plenty of black people tackling black on black violence in America.

GREAT! OK, who are these people/groups?

I'm not hearing about them because, as is often the case, the voices of reason are drowned out by loudmouthed idiots. And please don't cite people who are trying to get rid of "stand your ground" laws, those are the idiots.

You're probably not hearing about them because you're not in the communities where the talks are happening. Well, that and you're allergic to google. This is the type of ignorance people assume others are operating from when they ask questions. It's pretty much like talking to a creationist who tries to stump you by asking how old the Earth or universe is, which then causes a skeptic to spaz out on a totally different creationist who honestly asks because they don't know.
So given your dislike for loudmouth idiots... well, you're not a loud talker, are you?

Exactamundo! One of the more pernicious racist myths is that black people somehow love crime and racism and do nothing to stop it because they love it so, so much. There is some value, however, in being able to answer the question and combat these myths. It's kind of like the anti-vax people. If they ask a question, the answer "because you're an asshole" isn't likely to change their mind.

[Gumby]

Please help me attend, speak at, and report on the upcoming annual FFRF convention:



5 days remain in the fundraiser.

$130/$1000 on way to the goal.

Thanks for your support!

Just didn't get the hint last time, did you?

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

[SoylentAtheistGuest2]

[quote="Gumby"Just in terms of feminism, maybe that's why so many feminists today practice such a simplistic, emotion-driven form of feminism - if they actually studied it hard and saw how nuts a lot of it is, they wouldn't want to identify with it anymore. So they learn enough to spout some feminist technobabble that is merely window dressing for their actual beliefs.[/quote]

Alternative conjectures:
1. It is too confusing for obvious reasons so many don't put the effort into trying to figure out all of the contradictions. (Maybe that is too close to what you have already said).
2. Nothing precludes people from going through serious hard apologetics, much like religious studies to attempt to figure out the mental hoops they have to jump through and still believe everything they swallow.

[Ä uest]

Although having seen the following tweet, I think I have determined that the second "p" in popehat is silent:

I don't follow elevatorgate, so I am not familiar with his behavior.

I wanted to ask this at Scalzi's blog, but Scalzi closed the comments and didn't reopen them.

Is elevatorgate storifying:

• a single person
• a single woman
• a few people
• a few women
• random people
• random women
• only feminist women
• any feminist men
• specific feminists
• specific skeptical feminist atheists
• various leaders of skeptical feminist atheism?
• all tweets of various leaders of skeptical feminist atheism and a sample of the other twitters they come in contact with to provide context?

As he storifies, does he add commentary?

• Is his commentary salacious?
• Is his commentary relevant to the skeptical feminist atheism movement or the greater skeptical atheist movement?
• Is his commentary criticizing or commenting on the tweets in order to teach others about an event, or provide context?

Has he ever doxed, libeled, defamed, threatened someone he storifies? (Or anyone?)
What behaviors in real life or online are present to indicate that elevatorgate’s focus on atheismplus adherents is real life threatening in any manner?

If for two years, elevatorgate has done nothing but storify tweets how can that be harassment?

• Would it be harassment to storify everything the NYPD tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Republican Caucus tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Tea Party tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Scientology tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Vatican tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Paris Hilton tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the David Brooks tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Rush Limbaugh tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything NOW tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Gloria Steinem tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Amanda Marcotte (Slate writer) tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything CFI, or JREF tweets?

Why is it harassment to storify what a group of very public, very vocal, leaders in feminist and skeptical movements tweet?

[mikelf]

Make of this what you will:

I am not a lawyer, I have no idea what he is saying. He could just be trying to protect the lawyers' union.

He's trying to protect his job. How dare the proles be able to read and understand any aspect of the law! Better pretend it's more complicated than it is, fast!

I do like it that contracts are more commonly being written in plain language. I think it is a good thing that a layman can read the contract he is about to execute and have a decent understanding of what they are signing up for. On the other hand, though, it does give rise to a whole class of damn fools who think that, because they can read and understand a contract, that they have a firm grasp on contract law.

I am not a lawyer, but I do negotiate commercial contracts in the oil and gas industry. At any given time, I will be working on at least one contract worth in the low to mid eight figures. And, next year I will be starting on a multi-year agreement worth in the low nine figures. I don't need a lawyer to read and understand these contracts which can, as you might expect, be quite complex. I am, however, quite aware of the limits of my knowledge of contract law. When I am negotiating a contract, I work out the general terms of the deal, but rarely ever try to craft the actual language since there is a huge body of case law that can impact the interpretation of an agreement and there are seemingly infinite terms of art in law that only a practitioner will understand. After framing out the deal., I always go to a lawyer, explain what I am trying to accomplish and let him/her do the actual writing. And, without fail, there is always some issue or nuance that comes up that I would have never known about if I hadn't.

I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

[Rystefn]

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

Doesn't look like begging to me. Looks more like "Hey, did anyone here like what I wrote before? I did. If you want to see more of it, the money's got to come for somewhere, so would you mind chipping in? Thanks." I dunno, maybe in your head, if a musician tries to fund a tour with Kickstarter, that's e-begging, too.

[Ape+lust]

Wait-- I thought I was a Chill Girl who only did HIV research to get huge, black cock?

Your research will get you a huge black cock???????

I dunno. Somehow calling Watson a bitch was supposed to be my expert plan to get old white guy cock, and according to Miriam Nazmaki everyone is crazy for the black cock, so HIV research must logically lead to huge, throbbing, black cocks.

Also, wait-- Isnt this 'IM SO OFFENDED BAH UR RACE-ISMS!' from the same Jen McCreight who said that atheists/skeptics needed to appeal to black folk by talking more about prison and drugs?

Jesus fuck that woman is fucking stupid.

Thanks for the relevant reminder.

This is for you, Jen. Because you're so adorable:

http://i.imgur.com/EnxGnQq.png

[DeepInsideYourMind]

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

Doesn't look like begging to me. Looks more like "Hey, did anyone here like what I wrote before? I did. If you want to see more of it, the money's got to come for somewhere, so would you mind chipping in? Thanks." I dunno, maybe in your head, if a musician tries to fund a tour with Kickstarter, that's e-begging, too.

Yeah. Personally I wouldn't donate, and think anyone who does is paying for JV's freebies ... but ... It's up to them.

If he asks once or twice on here, as he did, then who cares? It's one message among thousands.

And, to be honest, all kudos to him if he can convince other people to pay for his trips

[VickyCaramel]

Things are obviously a bit different across the pond than here in 'Murica. you don't have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton over there posioning the minds of the black community. When blacks murder other blacks it's somehow white peoples fault. The conversation in race in America always seems to be framed in terms of "black people are expected to behave like children so if you expect them to act like adults then you're a racist". The question is not just legitimate, it's central to the problem of black-on-black violence. Namely that the black community needs to quit lying to itself and understand that 1) they have a problem and 2) they are the source of that problem and 3) they have to solve this problem for themselves, it can't be solved from without.

Going way beyond the scope of this... but in an unusual turn of events I am going to agree with what the chief Rabbi said today, which is that "Multiculturalism isn't working" -- actually I am not sure that is what he said or just journalist sensationalism. I do know he said that putting ethnic minorities into 'ghettos' didn't allow them to integrate and left them isolated.

I am aware that there is a slightly different problem in the US which goes back way further. But essentially you have the situation where blacks and other minorities were pushed to "the other side of the tracks". During more racist eras, there was no investment and a lack of policing due to racism. Now I should think it is more a problem of politics... republicans won't spend the money on black areas because it won't win them any votes regardless of what they do. Democrats won't spend the money because they want to spend it winning new votes. And there just isn't the political will to move people out of deprived areas into wealthier areas because... etc.

I believe that this can't be solved without addressing the fact that there large, mainly black deprived areas that nobody wants to invest in or place businesses in. Anyway, the point is, in many circumstances it is not a problem they can realistically solve themselves while they are isolated as 'the black community apart from the rest.

[real horrorshow]

Please help me attend, speak at, and report on the upcoming annual FFRF convention:



5 days remain in the fundraiser.

$130/$1000 on way to the goal.

Thanks for your support!

Just didn't get the hint last time, did you?

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

Doesn't hurt to ask, he's doing his thing. I doubt if Justin expects any sparkly rainbow shit out of us.

[welch]

There's a mini drama explosion going on with some of the FC clowns right now. It looks like JT Eberhard is going to spend the day getting his ass whooped because he's run afoul of the Intent is Not Magic law.

He attended an atheist convention when this happened:

http://i.imgur.com/XPeZcLK.png

JT walked out during Bria's rant. Later he talked to her about it -- meaning he ate a lot of shit, as is proper when speaking to an angry oppressed person -- but stuck to his objections. He did the same when challenged on Twitter. Then he did a loooong write-up on his blog and committed seppuku at the end: he questioned the wisdom of call-out culture and the disproportionate beatdowns for trivial offenses in his community.

Naturally, Rebecca immediately sensed which way the mob was headed and deftly slid to the front, while Crommie and Dillahunty sniped at each other:

http://i.imgur.com/UzzhFxS.png

Fluffy Jen, eager to wear her Big Girl Pants in public, is expressing offense from every angle and shoehorning "White CIS male" into as many tweets as she can. Here's one:

http://i.imgur.com/meVEufo.png

As a matter of interest, is this actually an unreasonable question when not asked within earshot of social justice warriors?

My family fled the mean streets of Walthamstow many years ago and I don't take much interest in what is going on in London these days, but as far as I am aware the Afro-Caribbean communities are concerned about black-on-black violence... firstly gun and knife crime, but there has also been discussion of gang-rape and sexual exploitation being part of the culture of black street gangs. And as far as I am aware there is co-operation with the police as well as community initiatives and it is a matter which had been taken up by local churches (Holy fuck! Could this be a rare example of Churches doing something useful?).

Isn't asking what the black community doing about black-on-black crime within the black community a lot less racist than ignoring the problem, or assuming the larger community needs to sort it out for them?

It's an entirely reasonable question, which is why it pisses off the SJW crowd as much as it does. Because reason is part of the patriarchy and rape culture, and suggesting people actually do something is ablist. Check your privilege, something, something, oppression, something, RAPE!

I think the implication that they do not care about crime in their community and black on black violence is more what pisses them off. Kind of a "OH HEY, THAT HAPPENS? THANKS A LOT HONKY! WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT FROM NOW ON!" thing.

[Ä uest]

Although having seen the following tweet, I think I have determined that the second "p" in popehat is silent:

I don't follow elevatorgate, so I am not familiar with his behavior.

I wanted to ask this at Scalzi's blog, but Scalzi closed the comments and didn't reopen them.

Is elevatorgate storifying:

• a single person
• a single woman
• a few people
• a few women
• random people
• random women
• only feminist women
• any feminist men
• specific feminists
• specific skeptical feminist atheists
• various leaders of skeptical feminist atheism?
• all tweets of various leaders of skeptical feminist atheism and a sample of the other twitters they come in contact with to provide context?

As he storifies, does he add commentary?

• Is his commentary salacious?
• Is his commentary relevant to the skeptical feminist atheism movement or the greater skeptical atheist movement?
• Is his commentary criticizing or commenting on the tweets in order to teach others about an event, or provide context?

Has he ever doxed, libeled, defamed, threatened someone he storifies? (Or anyone?)
What behaviors in real life or online are present to indicate that elevatorgate’s focus on atheismplus adherents is real life threatening in any manner?

If for two years, elevatorgate has done nothing but storify tweets how can that be harassment?

• Would it be harassment to storify everything the NYPD tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Republican Caucus tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Tea Party tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Scientology tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Vatican tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Paris Hilton tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the David Brooks tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything the Rush Limbaugh tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything NOW tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Gloria Steinem tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything Amanda Marcotte (Slate writer) tweets?
• Would it be harassment to storify everything CFI, or JREF tweets?

Why is it harassment to storify what a group of very public, very vocal, leaders in feminist and skeptical movements tweet?

Update:

In the past 30 minutes, popehat seems to clarify he isn't saying elevatorgate's behavior is harassment. He is just calling him a disturbed creeper.

Which seems disingenuous, given he states this in an environment where all sorts of people are calling on Storify to ban elevatorgate over harassment and stalking.

http://www.dailydot.com/lifestyle/eleva ... arassment/


But perhaps...

[Rystefn]

Make of this what you will:

I am not a lawyer, I have no idea what he is saying. He could just be trying to protect the lawyers' union.

He's trying to protect his job. How dare the proles be able to read and understand any aspect of the law! Better pretend it's more complicated than it is, fast!

I do like it that contracts are more commonly being written in plain language. I think it is a good thing that a layman can read the contract he is about to execute and have a decent understanding of what they are signing up for. On the other hand, though, it does give rise to a whole class of damn fools who think that, because they can read and understand a contract, that they have a firm grasp on contract law.

I am not a lawyer, but I do negotiate commercial contracts in the oil and gas industry. At any given time, I will be working on at least one contract worth in the low to mid eight figures. And, next year I will be starting on a multi-year agreement worth in the low nine figures. I don't need a lawyer to read and understand these contracts which can, as you might expect, be quite complex. I am, however, quite aware of the limits of my knowledge of contract law. When I am negotiating a contract, I work out the general terms of the deal, but rarely ever try to craft the actual language since there is a huge body of case law that can impact the interpretation of an agreement and there are seemingly infinite terms of art in law that only a practitioner will understand. After framing out the deal., I always go to a lawyer, explain what I am trying to accomplish and let him/her do the actual writing. And, without fail, there is always some issue or nuance that comes up that I would have never known about if I hadn't.

I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

All of which is the way it is because lawyers have spent hundreds of years making it that way. If it takes ten years of study to understand the law, something is very, very wrong with the law. Since the overwhelming majority of the law is written by lawyers, who is it you think we should blame?

Before someone misinterprets: I am not positing some massive, international, centuries-spanning conspiracy here. I'm just saying that a bunch of people who individually benefit from making the law overly complex are the same people who are writing the laws in general. When laws aren't made overly-complex with the intent for creating lawyerly bullshit, they are made overly complex with the intent of attempting to defend against lawyerly bullshit. In both cases, the fault for the insanity fall squarely on the heads of lawyers. Acting individually, in their own self-interest, lawyers have created a spectacularly over-complex system.

In short, when that first clever asshole said "Ah, but you never said exactly what you mean by the word 'theft' in that decree," instead of carefully defining the word, we should have hanged the fucker.

[welch]

And all Ive done so far today write/format about 50 pages of my dissertation, in addition to doing experiments in the lab.
I am such a failure.
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

<devil's advocate>
Jen is still working on her studies & what not. If she opts to waste her spare time on allegedly crappy blog posts, how does this in any way make her less competent as a scientist?
</devil's advocate>

Taking time to write a >3 page blog post (in addition to dozens of tweets/retweets, and god knows what she was doing on Facebook) in the middle of the afternoon on a week day is generally not indicative of someone who is... working.

Look everyone needs 'mental health breaks'. I tell our summer kids, I dont mind if they check their facebook. I mind if they are checking their facebook instead of doing things that need to be done. I have bitched at Jen about this for years. Blog at night. Do not blog at work/when you are supposed to be working. You wouldnt play video games at work, so why would you blog at work? Fucking stupid. And she wonders why her labmates/classmates arent fond of her. Shit. Its people who do stupid shit like this in the lab who bring the entire labs moral down.

One of the advantages of IT is that there's a lot of time spent waiting. Waiting for this or that to finish, and it can take some real time. So there's a lot of built-in time for me to walk around the building and see if anyone needs help, or what have you. It also gives me time to read and comment on the rather large amount web-shit I have to deal with anyway.

But when I was doing programming, that shit didn't fly and so I didn't do it. I can't imagine working in a lab as being particularly full of fuckoff time.

[real horrorshow]

I dunno. Somehow calling Watson a bitch was supposed to be my expert plan to get old white guy cock, and according to Miriam Nazmaki everyone is crazy for the black cock, so HIV research must logically lead to huge, throbbing, black cocks.

Dammit woman! Decide what kind of cock you want. I've got my Viagra supplier on another tab, and I need to know if it's worth placing the order.

[Ape+lust]

Wherein:

"Operation Delete Fucking Everything" rolls on.
The stars of the Peezus Youth witness their leader's grief at a tragic loss.

The most tasteless Godwinning since Hogan's Heroes. Finally, a series that's hooked this TV-hating lowbrow.

[welch]

Question: What is libel per se?

Answer: When libel is clear on its face, without the need for any explanatory matter, it is called libel per se. The following are often found to be libelous per se:

A statement that falsely:

Charges any person with crime, or with having been indicted, convicted, or punished for crime ....

With the kicker being the question of whether that accusation of rape holds any water or not. Which is not likely to be decided - or shouldn't be decided - by anything other than a trial of some sorts. Which could get expensive (lawyers, you know - ;-) )

Make of this what you will:

I am not a lawyer, I have no idea what he is saying. He could just be trying to protect the lawyers' union.

or he just has the same reaction to that as I do to people talking about how networks work when it's really clear they don't have a fucking clue. The "why do we have to pay for bandwidth, it doesn't cost anything" crowd makes me want to burn things. With that lot tied to them.

[Badger3k]

Sounds like Popehat is trying to cover his own ass. In related news, we have a Kwok sighting. Apparently he's been bothering Greg Laden (now, there are two who belong together). I wonder if Kwok has gotten around to reviewing PZs book?

[Bourne Skeptic]

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

Doesn't look like begging to me. Looks more like "Hey, did anyone here like what I wrote before? I did. If you want to see more of it, the money's got to come for somewhere, so would you mind chipping in? Thanks." I dunno, maybe in your head, if a musician tries to fund a tour with Kickstarter, that's e-begging, too.

It seems like the only time Justin shows up here is to promote something he's involved with or trying to solicit funds to attend a conference. Like a kid that only calls home when in need of money.

"the money's got to come for somewhere"

That's what jobs are for! If your writing, music, art isn't paying for itself, that's called a hobby!

[Rystefn]

As a matter of interest, is this actually an unreasonable question when not asked within earshot of social justice warriors?

My family fled the mean streets of Walthamstow many years ago and I don't take much interest in what is going on in London these days, but as far as I am aware the Afro-Caribbean communities are concerned about black-on-black violence... firstly gun and knife crime, but there has also been discussion of gang-rape and sexual exploitation being part of the culture of black street gangs. And as far as I am aware there is co-operation with the police as well as community initiatives and it is a matter which had been taken up by local churches (Holy fuck! Could this be a rare example of Churches doing something useful?).

Isn't asking what the black community doing about black-on-black crime within the black community a lot less racist than ignoring the problem, or assuming the larger community needs to sort it out for them?

It's an entirely reasonable question, which is why it pisses off the SJW crowd as much as it does. Because reason is part of the patriarchy and rape culture, and suggesting people actually do something is ablist. Check your privilege, something, something, oppression, something, RAPE!

I think the implication that they do not care about crime in their community and black on black violence is more what pisses them off. Kind of a "OH HEY, THAT HAPPENS? THANKS A LOT HONKY! WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT FROM NOW ON!" thing.

Yeah, sure. If you look for a reason to get offended, you can find it. Sometimes asking "what are you doing about this problem?" is an accusation that nothing is being done. Sometimes, though, it's actually a serious question. The difference is pretty trivial to distinguish if, instead of shouting the asker down, you answer it and see how they respond. So long as the problem actually exists, it's an important question. It's a question that needs to be asked and re-asked on a regular basis. If you don't have enough people asking it in the second sense, then sooner or later, you're going to need people asking it in the first.

[Tribble]

Question: What is libel per se?

Answer: When libel is clear on its face, without the need for any explanatory matter, it is called libel per se. The following are often found to be libelous per se:

A statement that falsely:

Charges any person with crime, or with having been indicted, convicted, or punished for crime ....

With the kicker being the question of whether that accusation of rape holds any water or not. Which is not likely to be decided - or shouldn't be decided - by anything other than a trial of some sorts. Which could get expensive (lawyers, you know - ;-) )

Make of this what you will:

I am not a lawyer, I have no idea what he is saying. He could just be trying to protect the lawyers' union.

I think Ken needs to stop kidding himself people don't know what per se defamation is considering we've been using the goddamn LAW DICTIONARY definition:

n. broadcast or written publication of a false statement about another which accuses him/her of a crime, immoral acts, inability to perform his/her profession, having a loathsome disease (like syphilis) or dishonesty in business. Such claims are considered so obviously harmful that malice need not be proved to obtain a judgment for "general damages," and not just specific losses.

We have been very clear, Captain Nuts in a Wringer that Myers defense is the truth.

But Myers is going to have to PROVE it to the standards necessary to bear the burden in this civil (lower standards) court. And that is EXACTLY HOW THE CIVIL PROCEDURE, AS INDICATED BY THE CASE LAW, IN CA HANDLES IT. He can't just say 'because' I said so. That's no defense at all considering he wasn't even involved.

Shermer will have to deal with Public Figure and Limited Public Figure issues. Shermer will have to come up with damages.

The law isn't so complex that a layman can't understand it. I know you guys like to pretend it is. But it's not. If it were, you couldn't do it either. So, why don't you write a nice pontification post on your blog. Out line what each party must accomplish.

Or just go back to picking on the more obvious morons in your profession for shits and grins.

[FlyingV]

When I am negotiating a contract, I work out the general terms of the deal, but rarely ever try to craft the actual language since there is a huge body of case law that can impact the interpretation of an agreement and there are seemingly infinite terms of art in law that only a practitioner will understand. After framing out the deal., I always go to a lawyer, explain what I am trying to accomplish and let him/her do the actual writing. And, without fail, there is always some issue or nuance that comes up that I would have never known about if I hadn't.

Agree completely. We consult our legal team frequently as a CYA. Even my superiors who have been in the industry for over 30 years still consult our legal team because laws or the interpretation of laws change, and that clearly falls outside our expertise. I would, however, be appalled if anyone on our legal team was tweeting ANYTHING about our negotiations - even a hint.

[Garlic]

I think the implication that they do not care about crime in their community and black on black violence is more what pisses them off. Kind of a "OH HEY, THAT HAPPENS? THANKS A LOT HONKY! WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT FROM NOW ON!" thing.

There's that, as Kareem noted.

There' also the problem of putting the responsibility for fighting a given crime type on an entire group, most of whom are victims of said crime.

Personally I wouldn't be thrilled if a women stood up in the audience and asked me "What are you men doing about pedophilia?"

[Steersman]

However, along that same line you will then, no doubt, get a hoot - if you have some predilection for gallows-humour - out of this comment from Sally Strange:
<snip>

And the field of crochet has been stagnated for how long now? Imagine the progress in crochet that could have been made, had men not been excluded!

and then you read an interview with Daina Taimina and the truth is of course, quite a bit less sexist:
http://cabinetmagazine.org/issues/16/crocheting.php

Interesting interview, although I question some of the statements made, this one in particular which looks a little sloppy at least:

For more than a century, mathematicians searched in vain for a physical surface with hyperbolic geometry. Starting in the 1950s, they began to suggest possibilities for constructing such surfaces.

Something which seems contradicted by the following from the article on the pseudosphere, the term for which has been around since 1868, and which was studied by Huygens in 1639:

[The tractricoid] is a singular space (the equator is a singularity), but away from the singularities, it has constant negative Gaussian curvature and therefore is locally isometric to a hyperbolic plane.

Maybe not a complete hyperbolic plane, but “locally” equivalent to one. Picture:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... sphere.png

But you might be interested to note the similarities between the above image and the second [red] “crocheted model of pseudosphere” in the article:

CrochetedPseudosphere2.JPG

(25.18 KiB) Downloaded 157 times

From the middle of the model out to the where the ruffles begin it is more or less analogous – if you squint – to the image. And the beginning of those ruffles is analogous to that “equator” [the maximum diameter of the cone]. But what is particularly interesting, I find, is that the ruffles are where that “tractricoid” more or less folds back on itself. Apparently, from what I’ve been able to figure out, it is that folding-back-on-itself that makes the hyperbolic plane interesting to many as it allows the creation of a very large surface in a small volume – and which is apparently manifested in many biological organisms, coral in particular.

[Garlic]

(Brain fart -> Clicked "submit" instead of preview -> Post looks even more stupid than it should -> Depressed -> Drink -> More brain farts...)

[Rystefn]

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

Doesn't look like begging to me. Looks more like "Hey, did anyone here like what I wrote before? I did. If you want to see more of it, the money's got to come for somewhere, so would you mind chipping in? Thanks." I dunno, maybe in your head, if a musician tries to fund a tour with Kickstarter, that's e-begging, too.

It seems like the only time Justin shows up here is to promote something he's involved with or trying to solicit funds to attend a conference. Like a kid that only calls home when in need of money.

"the money's got to come for somewhere"

That's what jobs are for! If your writing, music, art isn't paying for itself, that's called a hobby!

If that's the only thing he comes around with, it's a change. I recall having more than one conversation with him around here. Either way, let me see if I understand your philosophy here: Pay what you want after release, even if it's nothing, and if it doesn't make enough money to fund the project you eat the loss? That's a job. Pay what you want before release, even if it's nothing, and if it doesn't make enough money to fund the project there's no project? That's e-begging to support you hobby/vacation. Did I get that right?

[clownshoe]

Just didn't get the hint last time, did you?

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

It's a leap to say he thinks it's everyone else's duty to donate. I agree with you about the TAM thing, I really didn't see the point of him going to TAM, so I didn't donate.
However, the FFRF are tightly tied to the same cause for which he is an advocate and activist in a developing country. He guilted me into donating with his bloated, empty stomach, and doe-like tearful eyes.

[welch]

As a matter of interest, is this actually an unreasonable question when not asked within earshot of social justice warriors?

My family fled the mean streets of Walthamstow many years ago and I don't take much interest in what is going on in London these days, but as far as I am aware the Afro-Caribbean communities are concerned about black-on-black violence... firstly gun and knife crime, but there has also been discussion of gang-rape and sexual exploitation being part of the culture of black street gangs. And as far as I am aware there is co-operation with the police as well as community initiatives and it is a matter which had been taken up by local churches (Holy fuck! Could this be a rare example of Churches doing something useful?).

Isn't asking what the black community doing about black-on-black crime within the black community a lot less racist than ignoring the problem, or assuming the larger community needs to sort it out for them?

Things are obviously a bit different across the pond than here in 'Murica. you don't have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton over there posioning the minds of the black community. When blacks murder other blacks it's somehow white peoples fault. The conversation in race in America always seems to be framed in terms of "black people are expected to behave like children so if you expect them to act like adults then you're a racist". The question is not just legitimate, it's central to the problem of black-on-black violence. Namely that the black community needs to quit lying to itself and understand that 1) they have a problem and 2) they are the source of that problem and 3) they have to solve this problem for themselves, it can't be solved from without.

Um... there's plenty of black people tackling black on black violence in America. You're helping as much as the "he's an arab" woman helped John McCain.
Speaking of which, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton haven't been all that relevant since 2008.

And while Jesse does occasionally have a bad case of hoofenmouth, he's also spent a lot of time actually working and trying to get stuff done. it's one reason he's not in the press as much as sharpton. Jesse had, during a presidential debate, the best line I have ever heard about abortion. It was one of those inane news talk shows, and he was on with some other of the democratic candidates, and abortion came up as it does. His response: "I would rather take all the time and money we spend worrying about people from zero to nine months and spend it caring about them from nine months on".

That right there was when I stopped giving a fuck about a "pro life movement" that wept crocodile tears over people in the womb, then threw them in the street once they were not longer in the womb.

Jesse's had his moments where I thing "DUDE! STOP TALKING". But he's done a lot more good than he gets any credit for.

[VickyCaramel]

Isn't asking what the black community doing about black-on-black crime within the black community a lot less racist than ignoring the problem, or assuming the larger community needs to sort it out for them?

Being black isn't a matter of choice. It doesn't come with specific believes or responsibilities. Which begs the question why one alleges some "black community" different from "us", having special responsibilities. Isn't fighting crime the responsibility of all?
Besides, I guess it's tiresome to always be confronted with the full package of racial prejudice, which is inevitable when talking to social justards (well ok, it was Crommunist's own idiotic choice to be there). They are so unaware of their soft racism that whenever they "reach out" to minorities, it always sounds like a patronizing, racial slur.

What I know about this, is from watching some documentaries on Youtube. But I assumed that when she was talking about "The black community" they were not talking about the blacks within a mixed community, but certain communities that are geographically separate and overwhelmingly black AND have problems of high crime rates and black-on-black violence -- such as can be found in areas of Detroit and LA. The famed, 'ghettos' and 'hoods'. (Am I betraying my ignorance yet?)

Call me unskeptical, but I kind of made the assumption that maybe black-on-black violence had been mentioned at some point and the questioner was referring to it? If so, it is nuts to jump on her for asking the question even if it could have been phrased a little more diplomatically.

[TheMan]

Maybe I'm missing a few things. I've never been to any kind of organised conference to listen to speakers.

If something happens at the bar after the conference is over for the day how is it the responsibility of the conference organisers to investigate claims against one of it's speakers?

I am in this case refering to the accusations against Shermer. I would have thought the conference organisers would have a conflict of interest in investigating this in a completely independant way and in fact would prefer if it didn't make the light of day.

PZ seems to have Shermer by the balls here. I don't for a minute think PZ would be THAT stupid to not have sought legal advise before this course of action. My hunch is that this has been planned for a while and PZ has been sitting on this "grenade" for a considerable amount of time (co-insiding with FTB attacks on Shermer and a groing of "drunk sex" narrative) possibly verfiying the story for himself and is satisfied it's true. It's possible he met the accuser once but either way PZ will keep soem cards close to his chest and play them at the appropriate time depending on Shermers reactions.

As a point, and I'm not certain this is true in USA law but PZ is working off the legality that it's not libel if it's true. PZ has exposed enough information to remind Shermer of the incident. An incident it seems that happened a fair time ago (6 years?), that's been "dealt" with and the outcome not satifactory to the woman. The woman probably doesn't have a legal leg to stand on hence why not going to the police and probably has less of a legal leg to stand on now.

The long game here isn't legal Justice and PZ knows Shermer will want to keep this away from the courts, as would PZ. The end game here is shaming and warning, elevating PZ into Sainthood and offering proof that atheist/skeptic conferences are full of horrible womanisers and woman haters.

All conjecture on my part but I reckon PZ is the one having a laugh. I would not be surprised if for the last couple of years the FTB?skepchick mob have been dropping Shermer little hints that they "know a secret".

no wonder my posture is bad...too munch hunching.

[Homeless in Seattle]

Dear Jen McCreight,

If, as you assert, anyone who says “if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?” in a creationism discussion-- reveals themselves as a creationist;

then surely you'll agree that you saying "if we evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?" in a racism discussion-- reveals you as a racist.

How dare you suggest black people are unevolved monkeys. "Haven't evolved" and "monkeys" are terms with racist overtones.

Don't you dare tell us that you didn't 'intend' it that way. Don't tone-police me for waving my big, black homeless dick at you in the street. You need to listen, bitch. Go read 'Soul On Ice'. Eldridge Cleaver laid it all out: when a black man rapes a white woman, that's just payback for racism (which is defined as power plus oppression, you see.)

Aww... don't freak out. I was just kiddin. Look this scary dick is just an old dildo I found in a dumpster, kiddo. Yeah, yeah, yeah-- I sound like a raving lunatic. But that's just because it's impossible to satirize your batshit dogma without sounding batshit myself. I was really just trying to make a point about you sniping at JT, or Dawkins and Watson trading potshots: what are you whitefolks doing about white-on-white infighting?

Yours in the Struggle,

Muslimo X

[real horrorshow]

Um... there's plenty of black people tackling black on black violence in America.

GREAT! OK, who are these people/groups?

I'm not hearing about them because, as is often the case, the voices of reason are drowned out by loudmouthed idiots. And please don't cite people who are trying to get rid of "stand your ground" laws, those are the idiots.

You're probably not hearing about them because you're not in the communities where the talks are happening. Well, that and you're allergic to google. This is the type of ignorance people assume others are operating from when they ask questions. It's pretty much like talking to a creationist who tries to stump you by asking how old the Earth or universe is, which then causes a skeptic to spaz out on a totally different creationist who honestly asks because they don't know.
So given your dislike for loudmouth idiots... well, you're not a loud talker, are you?

Exactamundo! One of the more pernicious racist myths is that black people somehow love crime and racism and do nothing to stop it because they love it so, so much. There is some value, however, in being able to answer the question and combat these myths. It's kind of like the anti-vax people. If they ask a question, the answer "because you're an asshole" isn't likely to change their mind.

First, fuck that Fonzie-ism (never understood the affection for that character, or that show)

Second, this does not alter my contention (or JT's, bless his cotton-socks) that maybe, especially when you're a conference speaker, you might wish to address a question with some patience and civility, rather than throwing a fit!

Third, I am neither Black nor American, but if I was, and most especially if was young and male, and I saw the stats for Black on Black crime, I wouldn't be worrying about Creationists. Who cares how the Earth came to be, if you can't walk on it without getting shot! I wouldn't be scolding other ethnic groups about being 'ignorant', I would be wondering why the people most like me, are the people most likely to kill me. If that's not a sign of a sick community, I'm not sure I know what is.

[Badger3k]

It seems like the only time Justin shows up here is to promote something he's involved with or trying to solicit funds to attend a conference. Like a kid that only calls home when in need of money.

"the money's got to come for somewhere"

That's what jobs are for! If your writing, music, art isn't paying for itself, that's called a hobby!

Well, to be fair, people have told him he's better off being above this and just do his activism, and if he posts a lot here, it might get used against him later. He's doing real work, so that's better than poking the retreads with sticks like most here do. I don't hold it against him.

[welch]

In progressive circles we call that a "blog". You might have heard of it.

You mean like documenting everything Ray Comfort or Ken Ham has ever said or done in public?

[Parody Accountant]

(Brain fart -> Clicked "submit" instead of preview -> Post looks even more stupid than it should -> Depressed -> Drink -> More brain farts...)

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[Tribble]

Listen to MEE! LISTENNN! Woah hey wait, don't listen too closely now, you disturbed obsessive creeper.

That really says it all. These people EG storifies are like those weird street corner preachers on a box who shout out into the public with their eyes rolling and spittle flecking their beards about the visions in their heads. Someone finds it amusing and keeps a record of it, for the luls mostly though some is because these people are so disingenuous and hypocritical that you've got to keep a record for your own protection.

Now he's the stalker. He's the creeper. The crazy person on the box, ready to deny everything, is now the innocent victim.

Way to be gullible Ken, way to be gullible.

[welch]

Just didn't get the hint last time, did you?

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

When he started this shit for the third time here - for TAM - he was roundly criticized for it, and rightly so. And he hasn't learned shame or any other goddamned thing. Like Mykeru said, it's what happens when you feed a stray.

Why he feels it's everyone else's duty to finance what are basically his vacations, I don't have a clue. I work my ass off just keeping a roof over my head and you don't see me e-panhandling, so his shameless begging for free trips really irks me.

Hey, there's a MacSysadmin conf in sweden soon. how about y'all pony up a few grand so i can express-renew my passport and then go hang out with IT people.

Side benefit: i'll ignore this place during the conference.

[Badger3k]

The long game here isn't legal Justice and PZ knows Shermer will want to keep this away from the courts, as would PZ. The end game here is shaming and warning, elevating PZ into Sainthood and offering proof that atheist/skeptic conferences are full of horrible womanisers and woman haters.

For PZ, it appears to be all a case of "who has the bigger internet balls". It's posturing, where PZ can take down one of the "big guys" and show of his power, which is really, really diminished from where it was before he latched onto Watson's coattails. It's a power struggle that PZ and his friends want to win, so they can keep themselves "employed" at conferences and in alcohol and adulation, and off real work.

[Bourne Skeptic]

Doesn't look like begging to me. Looks more like "Hey, did anyone here like what I wrote before? I did. If you want to see more of it, the money's got to come for somewhere, so would you mind chipping in? Thanks." I dunno, maybe in your head, if a musician tries to fund a tour with Kickstarter, that's e-begging, too.

It seems like the only time Justin shows up here is to promote something he's involved with or trying to solicit funds to attend a conference. Like a kid that only calls home when in need of money.

"the money's got to come for somewhere"

That's what jobs are for! If your writing, music, art isn't paying for itself, that's called a hobby!

If that's the only thing he comes around with, it's a change. I recall having more than one conversation with him around here. Either way, let me see if I understand your philosophy here: Pay what you want after release, even if it's nothing, and if it doesn't make enough money to fund the project you eat the loss? That's a job. Pay what you want before release, even if it's nothing, and if it doesn't make enough money to fund the project there's no project? That's e-begging to support you hobby/vacation. Did I get that right?

I can't follow what you wrote.

If you want to give to Justin, fill your boots!

I give to charities that I feel need the money, not to individuals wanting to go to conventions.

[welch]

Make of this what you will:

I am not a lawyer, I have no idea what he is saying. He could just be trying to protect the lawyers' union.

He's trying to protect his job. How dare the proles be able to read and understand any aspect of the law! Better pretend it's more complicated than it is, fast!

I do like it that contracts are more commonly being written in plain language. I think it is a good thing that a layman can read the contract he is about to execute and have a decent understanding of what they are signing up for. On the other hand, though, it does give rise to a whole class of damn fools who think that, because they can read and understand a contract, that they have a firm grasp on contract law.

I am not a lawyer, but I do negotiate commercial contracts in the oil and gas industry. At any given time, I will be working on at least one contract worth in the low to mid eight figures. And, next year I will be starting on a multi-year agreement worth in the low nine figures. I don't need a lawyer to read and understand these contracts which can, as you might expect, be quite complex. I am, however, quite aware of the limits of my knowledge of contract law. When I am negotiating a contract, I work out the general terms of the deal, but rarely ever try to craft the actual language since there is a huge body of case law that can impact the interpretation of an agreement and there are seemingly infinite terms of art in law that only a practitioner will understand. After framing out the deal., I always go to a lawyer, explain what I am trying to accomplish and let him/her do the actual writing. And, without fail, there is always some issue or nuance that comes up that I would have never known about if I hadn't.

I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

A great bit from Mike Monteiro, "Fuck you, Pay me". The first minute is twee opening shit, but, he talks, and well I think, about why lawyers are, as it turns out, pretty fucking important.

[real horrorshow]

In short, when that first clever asshole said "Ah, but you never said exactly what you mean by the word 'theft' in that decree," instead of carefully defining the word, we should have hanged the fucker.

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers". - (Henry VI (Part II) Act IV, Scene II).

[Early Cuyler]

GREAT! OK, who are these people/groups?

I'm not hearing about them because, as is often the case, the voices of reason are drowned out by loudmouthed idiots. And please don't cite people who are trying to get rid of "stand your ground" laws, those are the idiots.

You're probably not hearing about them because you're not in the communities where the talks are happening. Well, that and you're allergic to google. This is the type of ignorance people assume others are operating from when they ask questions. It's pretty much like talking to a creationist who tries to stump you by asking how old the Earth or universe is, which then causes a skeptic to spaz out on a totally different creationist who honestly asks because they don't know.
So given your dislike for loudmouth idiots... well, you're not a loud talker, are you?

There is some value, however, in being able to answer the question and combat these myths. It's kind of like the anti-vax people. If they ask a question, the answer "because you're an asshole" isn't likely to change their mind.

^^^^^ This.

I noticed right away that Kareem can't answer the question. Kinda telling if you ask me.

[Bourne Skeptic]

It seems like the only time Justin shows up here is to promote something he's involved with or trying to solicit funds to attend a conference. Like a kid that only calls home when in need of money.

"the money's got to come for somewhere"

That's what jobs are for! If your writing, music, art isn't paying for itself, that's called a hobby!

Well, to be fair, people have told him he's better off being above this and just do his activism, and if he posts a lot here, it might get used against him later. He's doing real work, so that's better than poking the retreads with sticks like most here do. I don't hold it against him.

I understand what your saying, it's just that the constant self promotion gets tiresome at times.

[welch]

It's an entirely reasonable question, which is why it pisses off the SJW crowd as much as it does. Because reason is part of the patriarchy and rape culture, and suggesting people actually do something is ablist. Check your privilege, something, something, oppression, something, RAPE!

I think the implication that they do not care about crime in their community and black on black violence is more what pisses them off. Kind of a "OH HEY, THAT HAPPENS? THANKS A LOT HONKY! WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT FROM NOW ON!" thing.

Yeah, sure. If you look for a reason to get offended, you can find it. Sometimes asking "what are you doing about this problem?" is an accusation that nothing is being done. Sometimes, though, it's actually a serious question. The difference is pretty trivial to distinguish if, instead of shouting the asker down, you answer it and see how they respond. So long as the problem actually exists, it's an important question. It's a question that needs to be asked and re-asked on a regular basis. If you don't have enough people asking it in the second sense, then sooner or later, you're going to need people asking it in the first.

Which black community? The one near you? the one near me?

I can tell you the local black community here isn't doing a fucking thing about the problems the black community in your part of the country has.

This is not some monolith, as people have pointed out.

[KenD]

Over at Shakesville they're gathering the pitchforks and torches to storm the castle of a men's feminist group that held a conference with nearly all female speakers, because of some miscommunication with one of the speakers. Why do men even try? For all their efforts they are only ever going to get back suspicion and outright hostility in return. The best they can expect is to be chastized for wanting "cookies".
:popcorn:

If you're talking about the behaviour of the National Organization for Men Against Sexism then I don't think that's entirely fair. They've tried to spin cutting off a speaker's live feed into a "miscommunication", but that looks like a bullshit attempt at damage control to me. Based on their behaviour, I'm more inclined to believe that they did do it deliberately, trying to shut up someone who went "off message" and said things that disagreed with their victim feminist dogma.

I do wonder whether there'd have been a similar backlash if feminist women had done the same thing, but that possible hypocrisy doesn't make me feel any sympathy for those feminist men.

Is it sexist of me that I often find male feminists more irritating than the female variety?

[Tribble]

I realize all the cool kids bag on lawyers, but in my experience it is a truism that any man who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client.

/WCOA

Requires specialized knowledge and skills. But, honestly, isn't so hard because lawyers wouldn't be able to understand it either.

[Steersman]

Just out of curiosity, why would you think those tweets qualify as misandry? I can see that they have some sort of a hate-on for Thunderf00t, but I don’t see that that hate is because he is a man, i.e., because of misandry – “hatred of men” simply because they are men.

Point. But that was not why I did it.

First however, your point. Calling an individual man a dick is is no more evidence of misandry than a man calling an individual woman a bitch is no evidence of misogyny.

However, my impression is that all too often when a man does it, and included some reference to violence it is generally taken as evidence of misogyny.

So, by that "logic" a woman who wants to take to take a pick-axe to Thunderfoot because of his video is misandry.

All I did (or at least that was my intent) was to point that out. I doubt that it was successful though. Which reminds me to check and see if there was a response. ....

True. Although I’m not sure it’s wise to be making the same mistake in logic and definitions that some of “them” do. At least without explicitly pointing others of “them” to those errors. Although I’ll readily concede that that is rather difficult to do in 140 characters or less.

[Bourne Skeptic]

Just didn't get the hint last time, did you?

Give to an able-bodied, intelligent, resourceful, educated person e-begging to attend a convention.
or
Give to the local soup kitchen serving meals to the hungry.

What would you do Justin?

Hey, there's a MacSysadmin conf in sweden soon. how about y'all pony up a few grand so i can express-renew my passport and then go hang out with IT people.

Side benefit: i'll ignore this place during the conference.

That's tempting, a few days without welch ;)

[real horrorshow]

Meanwhile, in other news Icelanders Protest Evangelist Franklin Graham By Reserving Tickets To His Festival With No Intention Of Showing Up

[TheMan]

The long game here isn't legal Justice and PZ knows Shermer will want to keep this away from the courts, as would PZ. The end game here is shaming and warning, elevating PZ into Sainthood and offering proof that atheist/skeptic conferences are full of horrible womanisers and woman haters.

For PZ, it appears to be all a case of "who has the bigger internet balls". It's posturing, where PZ can take down one of the "big guys" and show of his power, which is really, really diminished from where it was before he latched onto Watson's coattails. It's a power struggle that PZ and his friends want to win, so they can keep themselves "employed" at conferences and in alcohol and adulation, and off real work.

There's that and there's "we were right" with regards to feminist ideology they have been infusing into atheist/skeptic circles. It's about entrenchment of ideology and confirmation that the menz currently in powerful positions still think with their dicks.

Cause you know..us men...everything we say is just a way of impressing your knickers off and when that isnt working properly...have another glass.

[SoylentAtheistGuest2]

As a point, and I'm not certain this is true in USA law but PZ is working off the legality that it's not libel if it's true. PZ has exposed enough information to remind Shermer of the incident. An incident it seems that happened a fair time ago (6 years?), that's been "dealt" with and the outcome not satifactory to the woman. The woman probably doesn't have a legal leg to stand on hence why not going to the police and probably has less of a legal leg to stand on now.

Well if you go by the rumor mill this alleged incident occurred in 2006, at a conference that both Shermer & PZ were at since PZ said he ran into the woman soon after the incident and she was upset. That would probably narrow it down to Skeptic/Atheistish type conferences since that is about all they have in common.

Skepticon did not exist yet.
Shermer spoke at TED, but I somehow don't see Paul Myers being at that event in 2006.
Shermer spoke at :
* TAM 4
* Beyond Belief
* Probably others, but I have not identified them.

I cannot find which if any conferences Paul Myers attended. Statements made by Myers did not specify that he spoke at the event where this occurred. In 2006 Myers had just received a best rising science blog award of some sort, so he was just getting noticed. I suspect it shouldn't be that difficult to identify which conference this occurred at if any.

It has also been noted on line that the name of the person making this allegation as leaked around their circle.

[Tribble]

The long game here isn't legal Justice and PZ knows Shermer will want to keep this away from the courts, as would PZ. The end game here is shaming and warning, elevating PZ into Sainthood and offering proof that atheist/skeptic conferences are full of horrible womanisers and woman haters.

For PZ, it appears to be all a case of "who has the bigger internet balls". It's posturing, where PZ can take down one of the "big guys" and show of his power, which is really, really diminished from where it was before he latched onto Watson's coattails. It's a power struggle that PZ and his friends want to win, so they can keep themselves "employed" at conferences and in alcohol and adulation, and off real work.

I think that even if he wins, he loses. If I'm a conference manager, he never speaks again at one of my conferences. Plus I cancel his tickets and refund his money and tell him if he shows up, he'll be escorted out.

He's just too toxic and polarizing.

[Rystefn]

I think the implication that they do not care about crime in their community and black on black violence is more what pisses them off. Kind of a "OH HEY, THAT HAPPENS? THANKS A LOT HONKY! WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON THAT FROM NOW ON!" thing.

Yeah, sure. If you look for a reason to get offended, you can find it. Sometimes asking "what are you doing about this problem?" is an accusation that nothing is being done. Sometimes, though, it's actually a serious question. The difference is pretty trivial to distinguish if, instead of shouting the asker down, you answer it and see how they respond. So long as the problem actually exists, it's an important question. It's a question that needs to be asked and re-asked on a regular basis. If you don't have enough people asking it in the second sense, then sooner or later, you're going to need people asking it in the first.

Which black community? The one near you? the one near me?

I can tell you the local black community here isn't doing a fucking thing about the problems the black community in your part of the country has.

This is not some monolith, as people have pointed out.

True enough. A request for clarification is a perfectly acceptable response to a question. I expect the answer will tell you a great deal about the intent behind the original question. However, since I didn't ask it, I can't answer you. Regardless, unless you can't imagine an answer to it that wouldn't make you feel completely justified in absolutely flipping your shit and screaming down the other person, the screaming was wrong.

[Kareem]

There is some value, however, in being able to answer the question and combat these myths. It's kind of like the anti-vax people. If they ask a question, the answer "because you're an asshole" isn't likely to change their mind.

^^^^^ This.

I noticed right away that Kareem can't answer the question. Kinda telling if you ask me.

I can answer the questions with a quick google search, as I pointed out. You should try it. You'll get everything from marches against black violence (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... ce/255329/ ) to mentoring programs aimed at young black men ( http://smharveyfoundation.org/ ). But like creationists asking "where's the transitional fossils?" you have to actually be interested in getting the answers.

[Karmakin]

In progressive circles we call that a "blog". You might have heard of it.

You mean like documenting everything Ray Comfort or Ken Ham has ever said or done in public?

Such harassment. Only a complete and total scumbag would do such a thing.