Bleeding from the Bunghole

[Badger3k]

PhilG, the Pit loves you, and someone has said that you're still browsing.

So please leave a little message letting us know your physical, mental and feline status are fine, or at least somewhat under control. Or not. Doesn't need to be anything too exhaustive, a simple "fuck the pit, leave me alone" if things aren't going too well would let us know your requirements from us.

We've all got your back, bro.

Last that I saw from a few days ago is that his cat hasn't come back. No comment on his physical shape either, but if he was browsing hopefully he's doing a bit better than last time.

[Ape+lust]

They seem to have lost all conception of nuance or scale. I also saw an article by that Martin guy at furious purpose (from what I remember, I think he's on the SJW side of the spectrum - it sure sounds like it)...

Martin is the marker for their end of the spectrum. Carrier is suffused with humility next to that guy. Remember this, from shortly after Elevatorgate?:

Now, here is the opportunity for Jerry Coyne, Russell Blackford, Miranda C Hale and anyone else, to state loud and clear that they do not approve, or maybe in fact disagree with Abbie’s comments that I have just listed here. Could it be any more simple ? I’m waiting. And if I don’t hear from any of these people, that message will be just as loud and clear, in that they do in fact approve of Abbie’s hate trip against Rebecca Watson, the one she authorised to be conducted on her blog for the last month. One that has done far more damage to the atheist or skeptic movement than any timid appeals by Watson for “Guys, don’t do that”.

http://furiouspurpose.me/the-i-do-not-e ... te-thread/

[Rystefn]

Meh, I call bullshit attention whoring on all counts. Part of me hopes he seeks out real help before the attention-seeking actually reaches the level of real suicide attempts, but most of me doubts even that's a real concern.

Either way, I hope people just ignore him. If they reply to him, it's either going to feed his need, thereby increasing the behavior, or it will push him to do something rash. Neither option is a good outcome.

Tangentially, I think Shermer's attorneys could use this as an example of collateral damage caused by PeePee's blog post. Shermer now has to suffer these kind of accusations where before he didn't. Even if they're untrue, they're a direct result of PeePee calling Shermer a serial rapist. This is harmful to Shermer's reputation and he should be compensated accordingly. Also, by not adhering to the C&D, PeePee has caused this to continue further than it should have, that's not going to look good to a judge and, IMO, shows PeePee's personal animosity toward Shermer.

True on both counts... though I more than half expect dicknose just jumped on the bandwagon hoping to get a C&D from Shermer's lawyers because he can't tell the difference between good attention and bad attention. Which of course means that it's probably best for all and sundry if he doesn't get one.

[Hunt]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... not-theft/

Dana Hunter demonstrates that she's a moron. I won't spoil it, but it's a rather pedestrian, and repeated error, that show's she's full of shit.

[Hunt]

*shows

Speaking of morons.

[Spence]

Just gonna drop these here.

I'm sure thunderf00t will just laugh these off, but if they were pointed at Becky it would be unequivocal evidence of misogyny in the atheist movement and straight on the "page o hate" for maximum victim points.

Funny how different things can be depending on who is doing them, through the eyes of an FTBer...

[FrankGrimes]

Right. So the only editing, at least in the one case you looked at, was structural. In which case, the so-called "editing" couldn't be used as a justification for selling material that is free online. Though I have to ask, is this material still available online? My guess is - maybe, might be hard to find.

It's pretty easy to find.
Loftus mentions the following posts were modified into chapters in the new book:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 ... secration/ - same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... e-in-my-a/ retitled, 'Top ten reasons religion is like pornography'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... -silliest/ retitled to. 'Happy Easter'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... ine-no-he/ retitled to just, 'Imagine no Heaven'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... ghters-of/ retitled to 'Daughters of Eve'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... etheus-si/ retitled to just, 'Prometheus Sin'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... -so-alone/ retitled to just, 'So Alone'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... nation-fr/ retitled to just, 'One Nation Free of Gods'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... embryo-is/ retitled to just, 'An Embryo is not a Person'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... ers-reply/ same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... orthodoxy/ retitled to, 'We're Happier out of a Straightjacket Than in One'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... active-ha/ retitled to just, 'The Active Hand'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... due-those/ same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/03/08/niobrara/ same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007 ... heights-o/ same title

Thank you for the effort. Now, if I only had a copy of the book. Not likely to buy one though.

[AndrewV69]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... not-theft/

Dana Hunter demonstrates that she's a moron. I won't spoil it, but it's a rather pedestrian, and repeated error, that show's she's full of shit.

I swear I am the point now that whenever I see one of these signs, I feel like I want to go over and do something completely inapropriate like honk her tits:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5143/5829 ... 2fbe6a.jpg

(probably why I aim to stay away from slutwalks and the like ... my way of resisting temptation)

[Ape+lust]

Thank you for the effort. Now, if I only had a copy of the book. Not likely to buy one though.

Pharyngula: Daughters of Eve

Happy Atheist: Google Books excerpt

[AndrewV69]

Just gonna drop these here.

I'm sure thunderf00t will just laugh these off, but if they were pointed at Becky it would be unequivocal evidence of misogyny in the atheist movement and straight on the "page o hate" for maximum victim points.

Funny how different things can be depending on who is doing them, through the eyes of an FTBer...

*shrug*

My response:

Whatever man. Fuck. (Die Antwoord)

[Hunt]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... not-theft/

Dana Hunter demonstrates that she's a moron. I won't spoil it, but it's a rather pedestrian, and repeated error, that show's she's full of shit.

Ah, I get it. She meant it.

I am a moron.

[AndrewV69]

BTW. My fave tweet so far:

[Ä uest]

Did Dana Hunter declare her cunt to be an old family heirloom or just compare her cunt with an old family heirloom?

[DownThunder]

My response:

If that's you in your pic Andrew, you could basically put the bishes in their place with your beard.

Don't ever shave.

[Hunt]

Moronic or not, someone should tell Hunter that changing Shermer to Sherman and casting a fictional story as parable isn't some kind of talisman against libel.

[AndrewV69]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... not-theft/

Dana Hunter demonstrates that she's a moron. I won't spoil it, but it's a rather pedestrian, and repeated error, that show's she's full of shit.

Ah, I get it. She meant it.

I am a moron.

Heh. Sorry for laughing. Hehehee. Sorry. Hahahahahaah. Ahaha! I thought it was pretty funny. Hehehe!

Thanks for the link. Still giggling. Time to call it a night.

Haha!

[Ä uest]

Moronic or not, someone should tell Hunter that changing Shermer to Sherman and casting a fictional story as parable isn't some kind of talisman against libel.

It's interesting though. There are so many bloggers now at FTB and SkepChick and heresy network, and tweeters and all of that blogging, tweeting, tumblring this story.

I genuinely would like to read what a lawyer that practices in defamation would have to say about it all.

I am disappointed none has shown up anywhere.

The closest "we" have is Popehat who seems to indicate that he thinks the behaviors are defendable at the least if not justifiable or even admirable.

[Ape+lust]

BTW. My fave tweet so far:

Did you see Patton Oswalt fuck with everybody's head on Twitter this weekend?

http://hypervocal.com/entertainment/201 ... t-twitter/

[DownThunder]

I've often seen feminists argue that things are getting worse and worse for Western women, that things were better for them a century ago, and even that Islamic countries like Iran are less misogynistic than Britain or America. To them the boobs on page 3 of The Sun trump anything and everything else, and prove that capitalist/scientific Western society is uniquely evil.

One semi-coherent definition of misogyny which I have observed (if you try to filter out the people who use it like confetti) is not the hatred of women, but anything which is an affront to the concept of "woman". So to you or me, an Islamic culture may appear misogynistic due to things like the burka etc, to a feminist who holds highly authoritarian views on sex and sexuality, a highly regulated culture is paradise. I have written previously on the connection between feminism and Kants view on sexuality, that sexual attraction alone was degrading to an individuals humanity, particularly women. In light of that, it explains why some, even many feminists view sexual attraction as misogyny.

I believe most feminists weigh their beliefs depending on how much they will benefit vs what it costs them. Eg, and unattractive woman would benefit from strict dress codes (more attractive women are required to cover up), and cost her little. A more attractive woman would also benefit from other women covering up, but she trades off some of her own natural beauty in the process.

[Hunt]

Moronic or not, someone should tell Hunter that changing Shermer to Sherman and casting a fictional story as parable isn't some kind of talisman against libel.

It's interesting though. There are so many bloggers now at FTB and SkepChick and heresy network, and tweeters and all of that blogging, tweeting, tumblring this story.

I genuinely would like to read what a lawyer that practices in defamation would have to say about it all.

I am disappointed none has shown up anywhere.

The closest "we" have is Popehat who seems to indicate that he thinks the behaviors are defendable at the least if not justifiable or even admirable.

At some point it would be like shooting at a flock of birds that suddenly took flight. No doubt as time wears on, people will grow more bold, thinking there is protection in numbers. I'm sure there's something to that. Hunter is probably way too small fry to ever actually be targeted by lawyers, but I think PZ, the original publisher, will remain fair game. Possibly Zvan too, and increasingly, I'm thinking Jason Theibeauxalt.

[SoylentAtheistGuest2]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... not-theft/

Dana Hunter demonstrates that she's a moron. I won't spoil it, but it's a rather pedestrian, and repeated error, that show's she's full of shit.

I swear I am the point now that whenever I see one of these signs, I feel like I want to go over and do something completely inapropriate like honk her tits:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5143/5829 ... 2fbe6a.jpg
(probably why I aim to stay away from slutwalks and the like ... my way of resisting temptation)

Why on earth would you want to do that. Although nothing on her sign is untrue, it's kind of a big bright orange flag of crazy. Because no one that I am aware of is making any claims counter to what she has on her sign. It's kind of nice to be aware of crazy and stay away from it.

[Ä uest]

Moronic or not, someone should tell Hunter that changing Shermer to Sherman and casting a fictional story as parable isn't some kind of talisman against libel.

It's interesting though. There are so many bloggers now at FTB and SkepChick and heresy network, and tweeters and all of that blogging, tweeting, tumblring this story.

I genuinely would like to read what a lawyer that practices in defamation would have to say about it all.

I am disappointed none has shown up anywhere.

The closest "we" have is Popehat who seems to indicate that he thinks the behaviors are defendable at the least if not justifiable or even admirable.

At some point it would be like shooting at a flock of birds that suddenly took flight. No doubt as time wears on, people will grow more bold, thinking there is protection in numbers. I'm sure there's something to that. Hunter is probably way too small fry to ever actually be targeted by lawyers, but I think PZ, the original publisher, will remain fair game. Possibly Zvan too, and increasingly, I'm thinking Jason Theibeauxalt.

But it speaks to the harm of malicious gossip and casual defamation.

"Which office do I go to get my reputation back?

[Hunt]

I genuinely would like to read what a lawyer that practices in defamation would have to say about it all.

I am disappointed none has shown up anywhere.

Possible that they can't really. Ethically or legally. Kind of like the fact that physicians are not usually thrilled about offering informal medical advice. We'd have to ask Skep tickle, but I don't think they can, legally, or that it's ill-advised.

[Hunt]

But it speaks to the harm of malicious gossip and casual defamation.

Yes, absolutely. Perhaps most satisfying would be if it were all laid at the feet of Myers. But you can't get blood out of stone, as they say.

[real horrorshow]

I swear I am the point now that whenever I see one of these signs, I feel like I want to go over and do something completely inapropriate like honk her tits:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5143/5829 ... 2fbe6a.jpg

(probably why I aim to stay away from slutwalks and the like ... my way of resisting temptation)

I'm pretty sure, if I'm alone, I don't need consent.

[Dick Strawkins]

But it speaks to the harm of malicious gossip and casual defamation.

Yes, absolutely. Perhaps most satisfying would be if it were all laid at the feet of Myers. But you can't get blood out of stone, as they say.

I think Myers is in serious trouble with this one.
It's going to be trivially easy for Shermers lawyers to show that Myers has been gunning for Shermer for the past couple of years. Ophelia too is likely to be dragged into this - especially as she admitted she (amongst others in her clique) was passing around a list of names of dangerous men, which included Shermer, and presumably Kraus and Radford.
Not only that but the timing of Myers post - just a few days before the release of his book - seems timed to generate attention for Peezus at the exact moment when it would profit him.

[Ä uest]

I swear I am the point now that whenever I see one of these signs, I feel like I want to go over and do something completely inapropriate like honk her tits:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5143/5829 ... 2fbe6a.jpg

(probably why I aim to stay away from slutwalks and the like ... my way of resisting temptation)

I'm pretty sure, if I'm alone, I don't need consent.

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

[Dick Strawkins]

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

Alternatively they might have told him that he's falling out of a tenth floor window with no hope of a gentle landing.
In that case Peezus might just decide that since he's going to be made penniless by his irresponsible action, he might as well get his money's worth. If a tenth floor drop is going to kill him, a twentieth floor drop is hardly less safe.

On the other hand it doesn't appear that he's warning the others to play it safe.

[Cunt of Personality]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... not-theft/

Dana Hunter demonstrates that she's a moron. I won't spoil it, but it's a rather pedestrian, and repeated error, that show's she's full of shit.

Think carefully before you answer.

I promise to give as much thought to my answer as was given to squeezing out that magically litigation-proof blog-fart.

[Hunt]

But it speaks to the harm of malicious gossip and casual defamation.

Yes, absolutely. Perhaps most satisfying would be if it were all laid at the feet of Myers. But you can't get blood out of stone, as they say.

I think Myers is in serious trouble with this one.
It's going to be trivially easy for Shermers lawyers to show that Myers has been gunning for Shermer for the past couple of years. Ophelia too is likely to be dragged into this - especially as she admitted she (amongst others in her clique) was passing around a list of names of dangerous men, which included Shermer, and presumably Kraus and Radford.
Not only that but the timing of Myers post - just a few days before the release of his book - seems timed to generate attention for Peezus at the exact moment when it would profit him.

I think so too, barring Myers and Jane Doe having conclusive evidence. In one of his return volleys Myers mentioned email records of Shermer's admission to bad behavior, or something to that effect. That could mean nearly anything, but can we really imagine their content to be something along the lines of "Gee, er, I'm really sorry I raped you the other night.." If, in some bizarro world, that was their content, can we imagine Shermer acting as he already has? There's something really, really strange going on here. There's a missing piece to this puzzle.

[SoylentAtheistGuest2]

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

Alternatively they might have told him that he's falling out of a tenth floor window with no hope of a gentle landing.
In that case Peezus might just decide that since he's going to be made penniless by his irresponsible action, he might as well get his money's worth. If a tenth floor drop is going to kill him, a twentieth floor drop is hardly less safe.

On the other hand it doesn't appear that he's warning the others to play it safe.

Possibilities:
1. Not everyone listen's to their lawyer.
2. PZ is getting free legal advice and may be presuming that he will have access to this freebee for the duration of the legal dispute. What does he care about cost? Why not just grind down Shermer with legal fees since his are free?
3. PZ may be a TrueBeliever[tm] and believes the courts will see it his way, and that HisTruth[tm] is an absolute defense.
4. He may be aware that he would lose a court case, so instead is doubling down shooting for a Streisand splash damage affect via the internet court of public opinion to carry his way to victory. i.e. ruin Shermer's reputation even further until Shermer cries uncle.

[Hunt]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/entequilaes ... not-theft/

Dana Hunter demonstrates that she's a moron. I won't spoil it, but it's a rather pedestrian, and repeated error, that show's she's full of shit.

Think carefully before you answer.

I promise to give as much thought to my answer as was given to squeezing out that magically litigation-proof blog-fart.

And it's not even litigation-proof, as I commented to her (which I'm sure won't make it through mod and will get me insta-banned, but she will read it). You don't need to name names to commit libel. I have no qualms about putting the fear of dog in these fuckers.

[FrankGrimes]

Thank you for the effort. Now, if I only had a copy of the book. Not likely to buy one though.

Pharyngula: Daughters of Eve

Happy Atheist: Google Books excerpt

Unfortunately that doesn't get me a book for nothing - which is what it should cost.

Might have to write a letter to the publisher.

[Hunt]

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

Alternatively they might have told him that he's falling out of a tenth floor window with no hope of a gentle landing.
In that case Peezus might just decide that since he's going to be made penniless by his irresponsible action, he might as well get his money's worth. If a tenth floor drop is going to kill him, a twentieth floor drop is hardly less safe.

On the other hand it doesn't appear that he's warning the others to play it safe.

Alternatively, Popehat found nobody to represent him and he's winging it, jumping and hoping the horde, his one and true family outside his children and wife (whom he conveniently forgets to consider when ruminating about conference sex propositions), will catch him.

[Ä uest]

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

Alternatively they might have told him that he's falling out of a tenth floor window with no hope of a gentle landing.
In that case Peezus might just decide that since he's going to be made penniless by his irresponsible action, he might as well get his money's worth. If a tenth floor drop is going to kill him, a twentieth floor drop is hardly less safe.

On the other hand it doesn't appear that he's warning the others to play it safe.

Alternatively, Popehat found nobody to represent him and he's winging it, jumping and hoping the horde, his one and true family outside his children and wife (whom he conveniently forgets to consider when ruminating about conference sex propositions), will catch him.

Perhaps. I know at least one lawyer tweeted back to popehat that he would contact pz, who knows what happened after that.

Anyway, time to turn in.

[FrankGrimes]

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

I seriously doubt that his "lawyers" would be telling him he's got an awesome case.

In my down time over the weekend I had a bit of a think about all this (maybe too much), and it's probably best not to speculate but fuck it...

A defemation case based solely on online stuff could be a bit of a precedent* and if this is the case, Shermer's lawyers would likely do it for next to nothing. Especially if it could be high profile.

* I have no doubt that these things have been looked at previously but this could actually break more ground. I was reminded of the Michael Mann case:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -mann-sues

http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/08/18 ... +Rogues%29

[Dick Strawkins]

I think so too, barring Myers and Jane Doe having conclusive evidence. In one of his return volleys Myers mentioned email records of Shermer's admission to bad behavior, or something to that effect. That could mean nearly anything, but can we really imagine their content to be something along the lines of "Gee, er, I'm really sorry I raped you the other night.." If, in some bizarro world, that was their content, can we imagine Shermer acting as he already has? There's something really, really strange going on here. There's a missing piece to this puzzle.

From the various rumors I have picked up over the years I think the circulated 'list of names' were never accused of anything close to rape (at least not rape in the legal sense.) It was more along the lines of some well known men who liked to party at skeptic events and would occasionally sleep with the skeptic groupies.
If PZ Myers gets a few offers every year then it is no surprize that better known (and better looking) skeptics would also get those knd of chances.
I get the impression that the listed famous skeptics were looked down upon for partaking of the available attractions - it's seen as some kind of power differential that makes it morally or ethically wrong for them to do so (their private lives/wives/infidelities nothwithstanding.)

So there was a kind of resentment there already and probably from two different directions. FIrst you had people like Myers and Laden who were simply jealous of the big name skeptics. Second you had people like Melody Hensley and Amanda Marcotte, who excused far more disgusting behavior by friends like Hugo Schwizer, yet are ready to tear apart at a moments notice those in the wrong political camp.

But the rape thing seems to have been a genuine surprise.
Ophelia can't keep her mouth shut on matters like this and wouldn't have been able to keep it secret during her fights over the past year with Shermer (she's dragged the 'its more of a guy thing' out to a dozen or so posts and articles - think of what she would have done with a genuine situation of serial rape!)

Carrie Poppy seems heavily involved behind the scenes in this but the information we have at the moment is so limited it's hard to say whether PZ knows the accuser at all. If she needed someone to pass on his email then it's unlikely to be anyone in the inner circle.

Whatever about this accusers personal charge, if it is the case that Shermer is a serial rapist then it is implausible that the five other women she claim to have spoken to (and who suffered the same experience) will be the final tally. Indeed it's far more likely (if she is correct) to be the tip of the iceberg.
In which case there would be plenty of possible corroboration available - no need to head down the hyperskeptical route.

[Gefan]

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

Alternatively they might have told him that he's falling out of a tenth floor window with no hope of a gentle landing.
In that case Peezus might just decide that since he's going to be made penniless by his irresponsible action, he might as well get his money's worth. If a tenth floor drop is going to kill him, a twentieth floor drop is hardly less safe.

On the other hand it doesn't appear that he's warning the others to play it safe.

My theory is that Peez is laying the groundwork for an insanity defense.

[Dick Strawkins]

It seems odd though. His lawyers must be telling him he has an awesome case, because otherwise they would be telling him to knock it off and do his best to make sure the rest of FTB knocks it off.

I seriously doubt that his "lawyers" would be telling him he's got an awesome case.

In my down time over the weekend I had a bit of a think about all this (maybe too much), and it's probably best not to speculate but fuck it...

A defemation case based solely on online stuff could be a bit of a precedent* and if this is the case, Shermer's lawyers would likely do it for next to nothing. Especially if it could be high profile.

* I have no doubt that these things have been looked at previously but this could actually break more ground. I was reminded of the Michael Mann case:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -mann-sues

http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/08/18 ... +Rogues%29

" The examples of “actual malice” offered by Judge Combs Greene were making provably false accusations and making statements with reckless disregard for whether the statements are true or not."

I think PZ would be hard pressed to show that he didn't show "reckless disregard for whether the statements are true or not" - at least not with the evidence so far provided, which has amounted to "I have been told this information by someone who I think is trustworthy" - but someone who still needed a third party to provide her with PZs email address.

[Jonathan]

Damion's post is a bit of a non-event really. When I read it, it felt rather like something written by a guy who felt like he should write something today but wasn't sure what to write about, so stuck with something very generalised.

Neither FTB or the Slymepit are a monoculture, not really. FTB is to a considerably greater extent, but it does have its dissenting voices. Admittedly they are usually drowned out.

As for the Pit.... I can see how Damion gets the impression; there are some very loud voices here, and many of the louder ones do like to argue. It's very far from a monoculture though. But then I suspect he knows that perfectly well.

[FrankGrimes]

I seriously doubt that his "lawyers" would be telling him he's got an awesome case.

In my down time over the weekend I had a bit of a think about all this (maybe too much), and it's probably best not to speculate but fuck it...

A defemation case based solely on online stuff could be a bit of a precedent* and if this is the case, Shermer's lawyers would likely do it for next to nothing. Especially if it could be high profile.

* I have no doubt that these things have been looked at previously but this could actually break more ground. I was reminded of the Michael Mann case:

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... -mann-sues

http://scholarsandrogues.com/2013/08/18 ... +Rogues%29

" The examples of “actual malice” offered by Judge Combs Greene were making provably false accusations and making statements with reckless disregard for whether the statements are true or not."

I think PZ would be hard pressed to show that he didn't show "reckless disregard for whether the statements are true or not" - at least not with the evidence so far provided, which has amounted to "I have been told this information by someone who I think is trustworthy" - but someone who still needed a third party to provide her with PZs email address.

And I have to wonder, what happens to a website when all their data is subpoenaed?

[Ape+lust]

And the silence on Shermer from Watson (and BFF Marcotte) continues. I dunno if she's too smart, been warned off, or is a player in this, but something weird is going on. Ordinarily, she'd sooner turn down an open bar than pass up bagging Shermer. Krauss? Radford? Get'cher red hot snark here. Shermer? Ziiiiip.

[real horrorshow]

Thank you for the effort. Now, if I only had a copy of the book. Not likely to buy one though.

Pharyngula: Daughters of Eve

Happy Atheist: Google Books excerpt

Unfortunately that doesn't get me a book for nothing - which is what it should cost.

Might have to write a letter to the publisher.

Maybe they'll do the same deal as Laden offered, and give you a copy in return for a good review on Amazon.

[FrankGrimes]

And the silence on Shermer from Watson (and BFF Marcotte) continues. I dunno if she's too smart, been warned off, or is a player in this, but something weird is going on. Ordinarily, she'd sooner turn down an open bar than pass up bagging Shermer. Krauss? Radford? Get'cher red hot snark here. Shermer? Ziiiiip.

Tbh, I think she's being smart.

[FrankGrimes]

Unfortunately that doesn't get me a book for nothing - which is what it should cost.

Might have to write a letter to the publisher.

Maybe they'll do the same deal as Laden offered, and give you a copy in return for a good review on Amazon.

I'm not that easy.

[Ape+lust]

Unfortunately that doesn't get me a book for nothing - which is what it should cost.

Might have to write a letter to the publisher.

Ah, a man who expects value for time wasted. I can appreciate that. There'll usually be non-torrent copies floating around inside a week.

[SoylentAtheistGuest2]

And the silence on Shermer from Watson (and BFF Marcotte) continues. I dunno if she's too smart, been warned off, or is a player in this, but something weird is going on. Ordinarily, she'd sooner turn down an open bar than pass up bagging Shermer. Krauss? Radford? Get'cher red hot snark here. Shermer? Ziiiiip.

"1 of 6."

http://i.imgur.com/dy6cXOF.jpg

[Hunt]

So there was a kind of resentment there already and probably from two different directions. FIrst you had people like Myers and Laden who were simply jealous of the big name skeptics. Second you had people like Melody Hensley and Amanda Marcotte, who excused far more disgusting behavior by friends like Hugo Schwizer, yet are ready to tear apart at a moments notice those in the wrong political camp.

Kind of like when Republicans were shocked over the sexual impropriety during Clinton/Lewinsky. Others (Republicans) were obviously offended (i.e. jealous) that a powerful man would have sex with a hot (?) intern.

Let's call a spade a spade. For a lot of feminists, a man age 58 (or whatever it was then), having sex with a younger women (age? maybe 25, 30, 35?) is already halfway to rape. An older man expressing interest in a younger woman is already suspicious, warranting "blocking" or distraction.

Those damn dirty old men, I tell ya.

[Ape+lust]

And the silence on Shermer from Watson (and BFF Marcotte) continues. I dunno if she's too smart, been warned off, or is a player in this, but something weird is going on. Ordinarily, she'd sooner turn down an open bar than pass up bagging Shermer. Krauss? Radford? Get'cher red hot snark here. Shermer? Ziiiiip.

Tbh, I think she's being smart.

Doesn't say much for her consideration for her friend. Unless, of course, he's okay with it. Then his usual warped indulgence of his blue-haired sugardumpling just ratcheted past crazy. Sit this out, babe, I've got Thibeault and Zvan for useful idiots.

[FrankGrimes]

Unfortunately that doesn't get me a book for nothing - which is what it should cost.

Might have to write a letter to the publisher.

Ah, a man who expects value for time wasted. I can appreciate that. There'll usually be non-torrent copies floating around inside a week.

I think I might have to buy one. Might get one second hand.

[Tony Parsehole]

And the silence on Shermer from Watson (and BFF Marcotte) continues. I dunno if she's too smart, been warned off, or is a player in this, but something weird is going on. Ordinarily, she'd sooner turn down an open bar than pass up bagging Shermer. Krauss? Radford? Get'cher red hot snark here. Shermer? Ziiiiip.

It's brilliant isn't it? It's obvious PZ started all this for Watto's attention and he's not even been acknowledged. Next he'll be doing press-ups and hand-stands outside of her house.

[windy]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

I would say pit has "opinion leaders" in the same way that if you pick a person, line him/her up with 9 others of your selection and then show them pictures of three sticks where one is obviously shorter than the others, then the person you've picked will choose to agree with the opinion that the sticks are all the same size, if the other 9 declare it so before him/her. In other words, conformity works in interesting ways (and everyone knows about Asch's conformity experiment).

THERE ARE FOUR STICKS!!

[VickyCaramel]

So there was a kind of resentment there already and probably from two different directions. FIrst you had people like Myers and Laden who were simply jealous of the big name skeptics. Second you had people like Melody Hensley and Amanda Marcotte, who excused far more disgusting behavior by friends like Hugo Schwizer, yet are ready to tear apart at a moments notice those in the wrong political camp.

Kind of like when Republicans were shocked over the sexual impropriety during Clinton/Lewinsky. Others (Republicans) were obviously offended (i.e. jealous) that a powerful man would have sex with a hot (?) intern.

Let's call a spade a spade. For a lot of feminists, a man age 58 (or whatever it was then), having sex with a younger women (age? maybe 25, 30, 35?) is already halfway to rape. An older man expressing interest in a younger woman is already suspicious, warranting "blocking" or distraction.

Those damn dirty old men, I tell ya.

But playing devil's avocado for a moment, suppose if you will that Shermer is a serial rapist and some point in the next few days a woman (uninvolved with current accusations) walks into a police station saying that several months ago he raped her. Shermer admits he had sex with the woman but it was consensual.

Wouldn't PZ's irresponsible actions have queered the pitch for this woman? Couldn't Shermer's defense claim that he can't get a fair trial because he is being tried by the media, and also claim that this woman is likely jumping on a bandwagon?

So even if Shermer is guilty, PZ hasn't helped in the least.

[Roofied_Baboon]

Clearly PZ's book is not selling as well as he'd liked....

I know, we have annoying random ads on this site, too, but we’re pathetic pikers compared to anyone who intentionally taps into the HuffPo/Buzzfeed Vortex of Misinformation.
An article marvels at the bad information infesting the internet, and all the advertising clutter in which it wallows demonstrates exactly why it’s such a mess.
Maybe we need to think harder about going to a subscription model here.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... -for-that/
http://www.freezepage.com/1376909251ZJZPEWDIPR

[Ape+lust]

And the silence on Shermer from Watson (and BFF Marcotte) continues. I dunno if she's too smart, been warned off, or is a player in this, but something weird is going on. Ordinarily, she'd sooner turn down an open bar than pass up bagging Shermer. Krauss? Radford? Get'cher red hot snark here. Shermer? Ziiiiip.

It's brilliant isn't it? It's obvious PZ started all this for Watto's attention and he's not even been acknowledged. Next he'll be doing press-ups and hand-stands outside of her house.

I hope his missus has a nice sleek hunk o' manbeef she's seeing on the side. It's the least she deserves for her husband playing the idiot in this long-running public comedy.

[Ape+lust]

Clearly PZ's book is not selling as well as he'd liked....

I know, we have annoying random ads on this site, too, but we’re pathetic pikers compared to anyone who intentionally taps into the HuffPo/Buzzfeed Vortex of Misinformation.
An article marvels at the bad information infesting the internet, and all the advertising clutter in which it wallows demonstrates exactly why it’s such a mess.
Maybe we need to think harder about going to a subscription model here.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... -for-that/
http://www.freezepage.com/1376909251ZJZPEWDIPR

Yet, they continue to add bloggers while grousing about meager returns. They're like breathing versions of the joke about making up in volume what you lose on each sale.

[Hunt]

Wouldn't PZ's irresponsible actions have queered the pitch for this woman? Couldn't Shermer's defense claim that he can't get a fair trial because he is being tried by the media, and also claim that this woman is likely jumping on a bandwagon?

The liability of vigilante justice is that the moment it becomes your resort you've pretty much fucked yourself with regards to ...you know...the actual justice system? One among a dozen things they haven't considered, and would be offended to consider! Damn you for giving them a reason to regret what they've done!!!

[Roofied_Baboon]

Clearly PZ's book is not selling as well as he'd liked....

I know, we have annoying random ads on this site, too, but we’re pathetic pikers compared to anyone who intentionally taps into the HuffPo/Buzzfeed Vortex of Misinformation.
An article marvels at the bad information infesting the internet, and all the advertising clutter in which it wallows demonstrates exactly why it’s such a mess.
Maybe we need to think harder about going to a subscription model here.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... -for-that/
http://www.freezepage.com/1376909251ZJZPEWDIPR

Yet, they continue to add bloggers while grousing about meager returns. They're like breathing versions of the joke about making up in volume what you lose on each sale.

Can you imagine having to pay for the privilege of getting hit with PZ's big ol' banhammer (for telling him that libel is libel)? :lol:

[SPACKlick]

[spoiler]
Right. So the only editing, at least in the one case you looked at, was structural. In which case, the so-called "editing" couldn't be used as a justification for selling material that is free online. Though I have to ask, is this material still available online? My guess is - maybe, might be hard to find.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]

It's pretty easy to find.
Loftus mentions the following posts were modified into chapters in the new book:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008 ... secration/ - same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... e-in-my-a/ retitled, 'Top ten reasons religion is like pornography'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... -silliest/ retitled to. 'Happy Easter'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... ine-no-he/ retitled to just, 'Imagine no Heaven'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... ghters-of/ retitled to 'Daughters of Eve'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... etheus-si/ retitled to just, 'Prometheus Sin'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... -so-alone/ retitled to just, 'So Alone'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... nation-fr/ retitled to just, 'One Nation Free of Gods'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... embryo-is/ retitled to just, 'An Embryo is not a Person'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... ers-reply/ same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... orthodoxy/ retitled to, 'We're Happier out of a Straightjacket Than in One'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... active-ha/ retitled to just, 'The Active Hand'

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006 ... due-those/ same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/03/08/niobrara/ same title

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007 ... heights-o/ same title[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Thank you for the effort. Now, if I only had a copy of the book. Not likely to buy one though.[/spoiler]

The opening and about theauthor are available free on Amazon,

The joke is also a sunday sacrilege http://cienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/ ... -the-joke/

Dirty words is a sunday sacrilege http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... -words/‎

afterlife? what afterlife? are the opening words of http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... l-lies/‎

Whad a dreadful price we must pay to be atheists are the opening words of http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... -price/‎

The karen armstrong diet is discussed in http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010 ... arth-crea/

I'm sure there are more. (soulless appears to be based off the gingers article etc but without a copy of the book to use I couldn't be more definitive.)

In other news I was hit by a bus on Thursday and so haven't kept up with the pit. Anything happened since the countdown to PZ's defamation deadline?

[Ape+lust]

But playing devil's avocado for a moment, suppose if you will that Shermer is a serial rapist and some point in the next few days a woman (uninvolved with current accusations) walks into a police station saying that several months ago he raped her. Shermer admits he had sex with the woman but it was consensual.

Wouldn't PZ's irresponsible actions have queered the pitch for this woman? Couldn't Shermer's defense claim that he can't get a fair trial because he is being tried by the media, and also claim that this woman is likely jumping on a bandwagon?

So even if Shermer is guilty, PZ hasn't helped in the least.

I'm not one who would know, but that sounds right. None of them seem to have given much thought to anything beyond: yay, we stopped a rapist. It's like they figure as long as Zvan is around for post-hoc justifications, they're solid.