If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

ERV wrote:l the wine-refilling 'story'.

ATTN SHERMERS LAWYERS-- Not only is PZ fucking up his copy/pasting from some email list, but Carrie is also fucking up. 'The alcohol bit appears to be a reference to one of the accusers saying alcohol was involved in her alleged rape.' Where, Carrie? Cause its not in the 'statement' PZ posted. I, and Mr. Deity, learned of this right now when you posted it on Facebook.

Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.

Though the mills of God grind slowly, they grind exceedingly small.

I am looking forward to this. I have a long score to settle with the old buzzard. Not as long as some of yours, but still...

didymos wrote:

LurkerPerson wrote:Erm, I'm pretty sure PZ's original "Shermer is a big bad rapist" post did mention that alcohol was related. The following post with the "quasi-raped" bullshit was posted as a reinforcement of Shermer's creep tactics of forcing alcohol down delicate flowers's gullets as they struggled helplessly against their instinct to gulp down anything in their cups for fear of being rude.

No, it didn't. People asked what the nature of the coercion was, and PZ added the detail about booze in the comments. I haven''t checked to see if it's in the OP now, but it definitely wasn't at first.

I'm sure many people have a copy of the OP. I do.

Peezus has a new post taking an indirect swipe at Shermer

Creepers have the right to not be mocked, apparently

Politics

by PZ Myers

You know what’s weird about the video below? The media are more indignant about the video than they are about Mayor Bob Filner’s behavior! How dare people re-appropriate a sexist song to mock a creeper?

Wait, that’s not weird at all. This seems to be the standard line: when a powerful man is accused of sexual misconduct, the source must be discredited by any means.

The video is about a sexual harrassment scandal involving the San Diego mayor and features a parody version of the song 'Blurred Lines'.

Peezus' complaint about the song being "discredited by any means" is rather curious if you follow the links -
the complaints against the video are actually coming from people unhappy with the inherent sexism of the video itself, not from people complaining about the mayor getting mocked.


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... 5163.story

The men are fully clothed, including one whose head has been replaced with Filner’s head, and the women show skin in various ways – one wears a very tight, very short skirt, and one is in a blouse with a neckline so low the top half of her boobs hang out.

You still expect to see that on local TV these days – the unremarkable-looking men with the gorgeous women beside them—but U-T TV has taken it to a whole new depth. Insisting the mayor resign for demeaning women, the station has chosen to demean women to get its message across. Or the women have chosen to demean themselves. Same diff, in my book.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... ion-in-san

Some Southern California media outlets slammed the spoof. The Los Angeles Times's Robin Abcarian wrote that the U-T TV station "has chosen to demean women to get its message across," while the Voice of San Diego's Sara Libby wrote the parody "seizes on a subject ripe with potential for legitimate news, and instead produces something vapid and embarrassing."

So mocking parody is OK if it's against the correct targets.
Even if it is clearly sexist?

Peezus Christ! :snooty:

Dick Strawkins wrote:Peezus has a new post taking an indirect swipe at Shermer

Creepers have the right to not be mocked, apparently

Politics

by PZ Myers

You know what’s weird about the video below? The media are more indignant about the video than they are about Mayor Bob Filner’s behavior! How dare people re-appropriate a sexist song to mock a creeper?

Wait, that’s not weird at all. This seems to be the standard line: when a powerful man is accused of sexual misconduct, the source must be discredited by any means.

The video is about a sexual harrassment scandal involving the San Diego mayor and features a parody version of the song 'Blurred Lines'.

Peezus' complaint about the song being "discredited by any means" is rather curious if you follow the links -
the complaints against the video are actually coming from people unhappy with the inherent sexism of the video itself, not from people complaining about the mayor getting mocked.


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... 5163.story

The men are fully clothed, including one whose head has been replaced with Filner’s head, and the women show skin in various ways – one wears a very tight, very short skirt, and one is in a blouse with a neckline so low the top half of her boobs hang out.

You still expect to see that on local TV these days – the unremarkable-looking men with the gorgeous women beside them—but U-T TV has taken it to a whole new depth. Insisting the mayor resign for demeaning women, the station has chosen to demean women to get its message across. Or the women have chosen to demean themselves. Same diff, in my book.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... ion-in-san

Some Southern California media outlets slammed the spoof. The Los Angeles Times's Robin Abcarian wrote that the U-T TV station "has chosen to demean women to get its message across," while the Voice of San Diego's Sara Libby wrote the parody "seizes on a subject ripe with potential for legitimate news, and instead produces something vapid and embarrassing."

So mocking parody is OK if it's against the correct targets.
Even if it is clearly sexist?

Peezus Christ! :snooty:

He just can't help himself, can he. You can bet his lawyers have told him in no uncertain terms not to refer to Shermer, but he just can't resist having a swipe in whatever way he can. Pathetic.

TedDahlberg wrote:

Dick Strawkins wrote:
It's interesting that they choose to use the terme 'horde' - a word generally associated with the Mongo army of Ghengis Khan and his successors, probably the most efficient group of rapists the world has ever seen (as evidenced in the genetic heritage of so many currently living in Asia.)

There is a fascinating series of history podcasts about the Mongol invasions at the following link for those who are interested.

http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive

If they're The Horde, does that make Myers Hordak?

http://i.imgur.com/18LJFGd.png

(I realise I'm way out of my league posting a photoshop in this place, but hey, it's Friday…)

No, it makes him Genghis Khan.

http://i.imgur.com/A9ar2ge.jpg

It also makes the Shermer episode ... The Wrath of Myers.

Dick Strawkins wrote:Ophelia is deep in the hole and digging furiously.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /quantity/

A new post by her moves on from calling DJ Grothe a nazi...

Oh I think I get it – what DJ Grothe meant by saying he thinks “unduly-moralistic scolds end up actively diminishing human flourishing by their sex-negativity.”

He means if we get our way, and sexual harassment at atheist/skeptic conferences becomes unfashionable (aka “politically incorrect”), then there will be less sex at those conferences. There will be less total sex. Our goal, if achieved, would lead to less sex. That equals sex negativity.

Yes, if you define it that way, he’s right. The kind of sex where a dudebro plies a woman with alcohol until she becomes too out of it to consider whether or not she wants to have sex with him and just has it – that kind of sex there would be less of.

So, yes, if you’re thinking about sex purely from the angle of “I want as much of it as possible, under whatever conditions, in whatever circumstances, whatever the other person actually thinks about it” then anything that gets in the way of that goal is going to appear to be sex-negative.

But that’s a slaveowner’s way of thinking about sex.

Now he's a slaveowner!

Hey....that's promoting homophobic stereotypes:
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2 ... e/112a.jpg

mordacious1 wrote:Dog am I dense, I just got "Forget it Jake...it's 'Ginatown". Sometimes it takes me a while, but I get there.

I'm liking Barbara Drescher in that conversation, she seems to have her head on straight. I wonder if she comments on FfTB? I think PeePee might ban her for blasphemy.

There is no way in fucking hell she would go to PZ's site except to laugh at 'em.

didymos wrote:

Dick Strawkins wrote:Ophelia is deep in the hole and digging furiously.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /quantity/

A new post by her moves on from calling DJ Grothe a nazi...

About that - has she called him a Nazi in particular, rather than just TAM in general?

Okay, first of all, can someone tell me why the Veracula (or however you spell it) thread was locked?

Secondly, I thought the convo between Sara Mayhew (love her!) and Poppy was really interesting, on Twitter. Did anybody else follow that? Sara Mayhew also retweeted this, from Barbara Drescher:

[tweet]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Don't believe the melodramatic rhetoric designed to bring in blog hits. Skepticism is alive and well. We're doing our work, same as always.</p>&mdash; Barbara Drescher (@badrescher) <a href=" 15, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/tweet]

Oops, screwed up the Twitter image. I'll have to figure out how to do that. Sor.

Tribble wrote:But repeated assertions, rumors and hearsay from 'some dude on the Internet,' no matter how sincerely believed, doesn't float my boat.

Hey, that sounds eerily familiar for some reason...

Sorry, I seem to have lost track of a few things recently. What's the status with Lawrence Krauss now? Has he threatened legal action too, because I see most of the innuendos against him appear to have retreated somewhat.

Incidentally, I just came across these articles from a couple of years back after Watson tried to do a hatchet job on Krauss, and when PZ yet again came to her aide:

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=30198

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... ssolution/

http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... yells.html

Politics

by PZ Myers

You know what’s weird about the video below? The media are more indignant about the video than they are about Mayor Bob Filner’s behavior! How dare people re-appropriate a sexist song to mock a creeper?

Wait, that’s not weird at all. This seems to be the standard line: when a powerful man is accused of sexual misconduct, the source must be discredited by any means.

Jonathan wrote:
He just can't help himself, can he. You can bet his lawyers have told him in no uncertain terms not to refer to Shermer, but he just can't resist having a swipe in whatever way he can. Pathetic.

Oh, I thought he was talking about the accusation of sexual misconduct made against him, and the "powerful man" bit was just his ego talking.

:whistle:

yomomma wrote:Okay, first of all, can someone tell me why the Veracula (or however you spell it) thread was locked?

This is the continuation. If you looked down the list one menu back, the thread is occasionally locked and another one opened. Sometimes it's because it seems to be slowing down and the size is suspected of being the cause... sometimes it's because the name given at the start, like the vacula one, seemed appropriate at the time it was started but times have moved on. There's no hard reason, but also no real effect, so don't worry about it.

yomomma wrote:Okay, first of all, can someone tell me why the Veracula (or however you spell it) thread was locked?

Secondly, I thought the convo between Sara Mayhew (love her!) and Poppy was really interesting, on Twitter. Did anybody else follow that? Sara Mayhew also retweeted this, from Barbara Drescher:

[tweet]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Don't believe the melodramatic rhetoric designed to bring in blog hits. Skepticism is alive and well. We're doing our work, same as always.</p>&mdash; Barbara Drescher (@badrescher) <a href=" 15, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/tweet]

It's like this, sweet-cheeks.

Embedding from Twitter like you did doesn't work and makes the Baby Admin cry. All you need is the URL portion.

Getting it from Tweetdeck it appears as I have no idea why the Twitter app has it as "statuses"

Click the "tweet" button top right between "strike" and "youtube" and drop the URL in the middle, making sure there's no spaces between the URL and the tag brackets.
Now go make me a turkey pot pie.

Hey Lsuoma, are any of the many guests from India? I was wondering if lawyers from either side of the case that precipitated the clownfall are doing research at the pit and I had heard that some law firms had started subcontracting such things to cheap lawyers in India.

Dick Strawkins wrote:Peezus has a new post taking an indirect swipe at Shermer

Creepers have the right to not be mocked, apparently
Politics
by PZ Myers
You know what’s weird about the video below? The media are more indignant about the video than they are about Mayor Bob Filner’s behavior! How dare people re-appropriate a sexist song to mock a creeper?

Wait, that’s not weird at all. This seems to be the standard line: when a powerful man is accused of sexual misconduct, the source must be discredited by any means.

If Paul Myers says it's OK to mock creepy guys, I would take that as a direct invitation to open the flood gates on his ass.

JAB wrote:Hey Lsuoma, are any of the many guests from India? I was wondering if lawyers from either side of the case that precipitated the clownfall are doing research at the pit and I had heard that some law firms had started subcontracting such things to cheap lawyers in India.

Not seeing any Indian IPs (how stalky does checking that make me?)

Mykeru wrote:
It's like this, sweet-cheeks.

Embedding from Twitter like you did doesn't work and makes the Baby Admin cry. All you need is the URL portion.[/URL]

LOL, thanks for explaining it. Math is hard.

Mykeru wrote:Now go make me a turkey pot pie.

Hahahahaha!

Oh, shit. I screwed up the quote too. I'm such a girl. <bats eyelashes>

deLurch wrote:

Dick Strawkins wrote:Peezus has a new post taking an indirect swipe at Shermer

Creepers have the right to not be mocked, apparently
Politics
by PZ Myers
You know what’s weird about the video below? The media are more indignant about the video than they are about Mayor Bob Filner’s behavior! How dare people re-appropriate a sexist song to mock a creeper?

Wait, that’s not weird at all. This seems to be the standard line: when a powerful man is accused of sexual misconduct, the source must be discredited by any means.

If Paul Myers says it's OK to mock creepy guys, I would take that as a direct invitation to open the flood gates on his ass.

Strange, he seems to have changed his mind since this former post:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... n-exposed/

...which featured the following video of a very creepy guy:

[youtube]5OhbLDFeE4w[/youtube]

yomomma wrote:Oh, shit. I screwed up the quote too. I'm such a girl. <bats eyelashes>

http://content.artofmanliness.com/uploa ... 3/taxi.jpg

TAXI!

Dick Strawkins wrote:

Publication need not be to the “public” at large; communication to a single individual other than the plaintiff is sufficient. Republishing a defamatory statement made by another is generally not protected.

It appears to me that Carrie may very well find herself guilty of slander/libel due to her role in passing on this information to a "single individual", namely Peezus.

[/quote]
As did M(r)(i)s(s) Anonymous.

Their only defense is if the allegation is true and can be upheld to be so in court. They'd need something where Shermer admitted to it.

Dick Strawkins wrote:

Jan Steen wrote:The Pharyngula commentariat like to refer to themselves as The Horde. The mental image thus conveyed is slightly misleading.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/oZoHEZd.jpg[img]

It's interesting that they choose to use the terme 'horde' - a word generally associated with the Mongo army of Ghengis Khan and his successors, probably the most efficient group of rapists the world has ever seen (as evidenced in the genetic heritage of so many currently living in Asia.)

There is a fascinating series of history podcasts about the Mongol invasions at the following link for those who are interested.

http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive

Ya done ninja'd me, Strawkins. I've been listening to the "Wrath of The Khans" series the last two days and just finished part IV about an hour ago. Fascinating - can't recommend too highly.

Wonky Donkey wrote:

Dick Strawkins wrote:

Publication need not be to the “public” at large; communication to a single individual other than the plaintiff is sufficient. Republishing a defamatory statement made by another is generally not protected.

It appears to me that Carrie may very well find herself guilty of slander/libel due to her role in passing on this information to a "single individual", namely Peezus.

As did M(r)(i)s(s) Anonymous.

Their only defense is if the allegation is true and can be upheld to be so in court. They'd need something where Shermer admitted to it.[/quote]

I'm confused. According to Turd of Dedhead, Shermer is a "proven rapist".

Must be some of that new wave skepticism that I don't quite have the hang of yet

Mykeru wrote: I'm confused. According to Turd of Dedhead, Shermer is a "proven rapist".

Oh, well if Turd said it, Shermer's fucked.

ThePrussian wrote:

didymos wrote:

Dick Strawkins wrote:Ophelia is deep in the hole and digging furiously.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /quantity/

A new post by her moves on from calling DJ Grothe a nazi...

About that - has she called him a Nazi in particular, rather than just TAM in general?

one of them that orac took her to task for in the comments was over here http://www.freezepage.com/1376664473FSVSOBTTGU

As Jews in Germany circa 1936 might have created “a climate where Jews — who otherwise wouldn’t — end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe.” As the Southern Poverty Law Center creates a climate where people who are the object of systematic vocal hatred end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe. That’s not to compare TAM with Nazi Germany or racist pockets of the US, of course…

thought there was an "acting like brownshirts" comparison mentioning grothe specifically at some point but cant find that

Lsuoma wrote:

JAB wrote:Hey Lsuoma, are any of the many guests from India? I was wondering if lawyers from either side of the case that precipitated the clownfall are doing research at the pit and I had heard that some law firms had started subcontracting such things to cheap lawyers in India.

Not seeing any Indian IPs (how stalky does checking that make me?)

I think it's just regular old fascism when you do it.

Mykeru wrote:

Wonky Donkey wrote:

Publication need not be to the “public” at large; communication to a single individual other than the plaintiff is sufficient. Republishing a defamatory statement made by another is generally not protected.

As did M(r)(i)s(s) Anonymous.

Their only defense is if the allegation is true and can be upheld to be so in court. They'd need something where Shermer admitted to it.

I'm confused. According to Turd of Dedhead, Shermer is a "proven rapist".

Must be some of that new wave skepticism that I don't quite have the hang of yet

But PZ is divorced from skepticism. Would the Horde not follow the example their fearless leader hormone-driven wannabe set?

Like that divorced couple where you absolutely cannot stay friends with both.

rpguest wrote:

ThePrussian wrote:
About that - has she called him a Nazi in particular, rather than just TAM in general?

one of them that orac took her to task for in the comments was over here http://www.freezepage.com/1376664473FSVSOBTTGU

As Jews in Germany circa 1936 might have created “a climate where Jews — who otherwise wouldn’t — end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe.” As the Southern Poverty Law Center creates a climate where people who are the object of systematic vocal hatred end up feeling unwelcome and unsafe. That’s not to compare TAM with Nazi Germany or racist pockets of the US, of course…

thought there was an "acting like brownshirts" comparison mentioning grothe specifically at some point but cant find that

I guess it's more accurate to say she indirectly accused him of being a Nazi.

(If TAM is like Nazi Germany, it's going to be run by what? A liberal gay skeptic?)

Just as she's currently indirectly accusing him of acting like a slaveowner.

Django Benson to the rescue.

Mykeru wrote: I'm confused. According to Turd of Dedhead, Shermer is a "proven rapist".

Must be some of that new wave skepticism that I don't quite have the hang of yet

Something's not right here. I'm very intrigued what the outcome of all this will be. It appears that some of the people involved have completely failed to understand the seriousness of what they have done.

Whoo. Sasha Pixlee, who wrote how DJ Grothe triggered all his triggers, has internalized the Good Ally dictum about taking your lumps when an Oppressed Person craps on your head.

http://i.imgur.com/lliM6dy.png

Yes ma'am, may I have another?
http://i.imgur.com/1qwNPeo.png

Yes ma'am, may I have another?
http://i.imgur.com/LcIGqS7.png

Yes ma'am, may I have another?
http://i.imgur.com/7P1Dlqb.png

Ape+lust wrote:Whoo. Sasha Pixlee, who wrote how DJ Grothe triggered all his triggers, has internalized the Good Ally dictum about taking your lumps when an Oppressed Person craps on your head.

http://i.imgur.com/lliM6dy.png

Yes ma'am, may I have another?
http://i.imgur.com/1qwNPeo.png

Yes ma'am, may I have another?
http://i.imgur.com/LcIGqS7.png

Yes ma'am, may I have another?
http://i.imgur.com/7P1Dlqb.png

They seem like wonderful women. I just can't understand why nobody would want to listen to them.

For God's sake man, have some backbone.

It is utterly awful to see someone willingly subjugate themselves to clear and obvious bullying.

Sulman wrote:

Mykeru wrote: I'm confused. According to Turd of Dedhead, Shermer is a "proven rapist".

Must be some of that new wave skepticism that I don't quite have the hang of yet

Something's not right here. I'm very intrigued what the outcome of all this will be. It appears that some of the people involved have completely failed to understand the seriousness of what they have done.

I used to be a moderator on a popular messageboard based in England (it was for supporters of a particular football team) and it was impressed upon us that comments that defamed an individual were just as serious as official posts by the admin of the messageboard.

We had to come down very hard on defamatory comments and even then we got a few legal threats (immediately deleting the comments upon complaint was usually enough to avoid litigation.)

I don't understand how the commenters on Pharyngula seem to think they have free rein to say anything whatsoever about people without facing consequences.
I guess PZ has impressed this type of behavior on them over the years and they've honed their skills through casually making unsupportable accusations against us here at the slymepit and against others who don't have the financial resources to challenge their vindictive idiocy.

Or maybe they are just idiots.
They seriously seem to think that it is only PZ that might get in trouble - not his horde, many of whom are repeating the same exact libels.

katamari Damassi wrote:

Jan Steen wrote:How could I forget to include the most famous Pharyngula commenter.

http://i.imgur.com/7ZgpWx8.jpg

Just as dangerous. Imagine if the Pharyngulites managed to get some momentum.

Tie a twinkie to a bicycle and ride in front of them. You'll get some momentum all right.

Sulman wrote:For God's sake man, have some backbone.

It is utterly awful to see someone willingly subjugate themselves to clear and obvious bullying.

I scanned his twitter feed and it's a lot of the same. Quite depressing to read.

Sulman wrote:For God's sake man, have some backbone.

It is utterly awful to see someone willingly subjugate themselves to clear and obvious bullying.

Sasha Pixlee (I honestly thought that was a Pharyngula handle the first time I read it) is the idiot who accused DJ Grothe of making a rape threat against him after DJ joked about that his gay friends who like 'bears' might find Pixlee attractive.

Scalzi is a fucking twat.

He's a third-rate science fiction writer who's mainly popular with hipsters because his shit is tailored to their all-consuming obsession with their own childhood. Predictably he's concluded that said popularity makes him an authority on everything.

He's to Social Justice warriors what Cory Doctrow is to freetards.

Tribble wrote:

Slither wrote:Regarding Orson Scott Card, though, I think people are being unfair to him. What happened to him was that the Mormon church came down on him hard because his earlier works were too supportive of homosexuality, and they threatened to excommunicate him unless he immediately wrote some homophobic texts as penance and keep in line with the Mormon church rulings from then on. Now, it is easier for young people to say that he should have stuck to his principles and refused. However, when you have a wife and children, leaving them is not so easy. Personally, I think his wife and kids should have supported him, and told the church that they'd stick by OSC no matter what. Apparently, though, that didn't happen.

Card has these problems with gays LONG before he was known. We're talking, based on his writings about his early adult LDS Drama/Directing/Writing as the founder of Utah Valley Repertory Theatre Company forays, his entire adult life. And he's been increasingly vocal, since at least 1990, on the issue.

Further, while I didn't spend a lot of time on it, I find nothing to support your contention. Not even easily Googled Internet rumors.

So, I just find your claim to be in serious conflict with Cards own statements and actions while lacking any sort of verification to the point of hearsay evidence. Now, if you've got Card's own statements of threatened excommunication, I'll take that. But repeated assertions, rumors and hearsay from 'some dude on the Internet,' no matter how sincerely believed, doesn't float my boat.

I don't get why anyone really cares. Ender's Game is a great book, as are some of OSC's other works. He's a fiction writer, not a politician.

Just avoid his political "essays" and his Hamlet gay pedo book and you'll be fine.

Dick Strawkins wrote:

Sulman wrote:For God's sake man, have some backbone.

It is utterly awful to see someone willingly subjugate themselves to clear and obvious bullying.

Sasha Pixlee (I honestly thought that was a Pharyngula handle the first time I read it) is the idiot who accused DJ Grothe of making a rape threat against him after DJ joked about that his gay friends who like 'bears' might find Pixlee attractive.

And no doubt told the women on his twitter feed that he now has a greater understanding of what they go through.

Dick Strawkins wrote:Peezus has a new post taking an indirect swipe at Shermer


The video is about a sexual harrassment scandal involving the San Diego mayor and features a parody version of the song 'Blurred Lines'.

Peezus' complaint about the song being "discredited by any means" is rather curious if you follow the links -
the complaints against the video are actually coming from people unhappy with the inherent sexism of the video itself, not from people complaining about the mayor getting mocked.


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... 5163.story

The men are fully clothed, including one whose head has been replaced with Filner’s head, and the women show skin in various ways – one wears a very tight, very short skirt, and one is in a blouse with a neckline so low the top half of her boobs hang out. (1)

You still expect to see that on local TV these days – the unremarkable-looking men with the gorgeous women beside them—but U-T TV has taken it to a whole new depth. Insisting the mayor resign for demeaning women, the station has chosen to demean women to get its message across. Or the women have chosen to demean themselves. Same diff, in my book.2

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... ion-in-san

So mocking parody is OK if it's against the correct targets.
Even if it is clearly sexist?

Peezus Christ! :snooty:

1) So what? The woman in the short skirt has nice legs, the woman in the low-cut top has nice tits. I'm sure they had those facts in mind when they chose to wear those clothes. Or do the critics believe that they were forced?

Being a news anchor requires the following skills: The ability to read aloud. That is all. Attractive women get offered these well paying jobs, and take them. Is this sexist? Yes. Would I take the money if I were in their place? Yes.

2) Women being 'demeaned' and women choosing to 'demean' themselves are not the same thing. And that's assuming they are being demeaned at all.

If Merkins object to news anchors doing this, I wonder what they'd make of the BBC news room's regular contributions to the Children in Need telethon:

[youtube]OgahtQCvXag[/youtube]

Fiona Bruce is self-declared feminist. (She's not singing live but that is, apparently, her voice.)

Additional gratuitous leg shot:
http://i.imgur.com/rp5AXVo.jpg

However you're right that PeeZus has missed the point. It is the (perceived) sexism of the mockery that's being criticised, not the fact of the mockery itself.

As a minor point. When did Merkins start calling people (rather than climbing plants) 'creepers', instead of just creeps? Does the phenomenon pre-date Minecraft?

Jan Steen wrote:No, it makes him Genghis Khan.

http://i.imgur.com/A9ar2ge.jpg

It also makes the Shermer episode ... The Wrath of Myers.

http://i.imgur.com/VtoeOlr.jpg
Sorry. (No I'm not.)

And as for Card, finding out that he's a raging homophobe only confirmed my dislike for him.

True story.

I managed to avoid reading Ender's Game until I was in my mid-twenties. My girlfriend of the time, who was a huge fan, forced me to read it. I'm fairly certain my assessment of the work as "...unreadable drivel with a moral message that is, frankly, deplorable" had something to do with our ensuing break-up.

deLurch wrote:If Paul Myers says it's OK to mock creepy guys, I would take that as a direct invitation to open the flood gates on his ass.

I thought we had!

Incidentally I had a nightmare last night where I was being stalked by someone who was a mix of an ex boyfriend, Lawrence Krauss, and Philip Seymour Hoffman. FfTBers triggered me. Go figure.

Yikes. I almost feel bad for Sasha. He demonstrates some amount of guilt and then Twitter piles on and accuses him of being even worse than he thought he was.

Reminds me of the A+ thread where the girl writing an feminist essay for school was accused of silencing trans* people.

Also, hi all. Testing, testing 123.

I'll fuck off now.

Sulman wrote:

Mykeru wrote: I'm confused. According to Turd of Dedhead, Shermer is a "proven rapist".

Must be some of that new wave skepticism that I don't quite have the hang of yet

Something's not right here. I'm very intrigued what the outcome of all this will be. It appears that some of the people involved have completely failed to understand the seriousness of what they have done.

Yah think?

It comes down to how much they are either willing to dehumanize perceived opponents or are just clueless about it. No matter what I do on the intertubes, I am aware that I am dealing with human beings, admittedly one's I don't like at times. However, in a move that seemed to have pissed off Paul Elam and A Voice for Men (and I think the origin of their "feminists got to me" jibe) I backed away from doing "CreepyBittergrrl" as she was being confused with Sasha Wiley Shaw. Shaw is a piece of work in her own right, but when I saw the fuzzing of the line between her, and my parody of her, I thought it was a bit unfair.

That being said, people like P.Z. Myers, Ophelia Benson, Rebecca Watson long since used up whatever coupons they had for being treated with a modicum of respect. That said, it's not as if I'm going to accuse Myers of, say baby raping as a straight-faced tactic to discredit him. It's not a "win at all costs", especially when I don't have to make shit up. When I recently accused Carrie Poppy of sacrificing babies on the blood alter, with the caveat "I have the details, which I can't disclose", it's obviously a dig not to be taken seriously, just to prove a little something about how easy it is to do the McCarthy "briefcase full of commie infiltrators" routine.

The difference with FTB and the like is that they really have a "win at all costs" attitude which is based on a perverse Euthyphro definition of good. That is, they are good, so therefore anything they do, such as lie and slander, is justifiable for the "greater good" which, of course, translates into "good for them".

What's more, they aren't dealing in arguments or evidence. They don't care about that. What they care about is not that people who don't follow in lockstep with their perversion of truth and justice have bad arguments. What they want, what they need, the only thing that gives them social cohesion and keeping the cognitive dissonance from eating them alive is that ANYONE WHO DISAGREES IS, BY DEFINITION A BAD PERSON. Once you are a "bad person" in their eyes, you are declared outlaw and divorced from any moral consideration. That may not mean they will make up any old shit about a critic, perhaps just the boilerplate "harasser/stalker" stuff, but it certainly does mean they will believe any old made-up crap about someone declared outside their moral consideration.

So with Shermer, he was already suspect. He was a male, and males, without proper chastising and education, are inherently BAD PEOPLE. He is accomplished and well known and so being above them on any old hierarchy you could care to imagine also makes him a BAD PERSON. He was accused by what is claimed to be a woman and, as we know, women, especially one's cloaked in the mantle of victim hood are inherently GOOD PEOPLE. What's more this good woman, who might be a 12 year old boy writing emails between bouts of jerking off to Hentai porn, like PZ in his youth or, really, last week, was known to one of the inherently GOOD PEOPLE, Carrie Poppy which makes s/h/it a GOOD PERSON VICTIM BEYOND REPROACH. To claim otherwise, or to even show the smallest bit of doubt or lack of revolutionary fervor would automatically make one a BAD PERSON and so the acceptance of all this horseshit is not only feel-good and ideologically sanctioned moral outrage, but also sheer pissing terror. The lesson to be learned from BAD PEOPLE is how to avoid becoming one yourself.

That they don't realize the seriousness of what they have done (and will do some more) is not just that BAD PEOPLE are due no moral consideration, and that they are terrified of being noticed not throwing stones hard enough, but they are a bunch of socially awkward, half-bright losers. Seriously, you have to keep in mind that they may be divested from what they are doing because, after all, all they are doing is typing. This is like some big-assed multi-player role playing game to them. This is what they do, this is what they are used to an, for the most part, this is either how they relate to other people or how they can hide behind a keyboard to play Grand Theft Social Justice whern out in the real world not only don't they drive like that, they don't even have a car.

One other motivation strikes me, which may have attracted them to the a/s community oin the first place: A membership card to act like they are smarter than everyone else. I was listening to a debate online involving Alex Gabriel and he comes across like a total tone-deaf little turdlet: http://t.co/uNGlNqAihl The impression I get is this little bastard is strutting around like he's the smartest guy in the room when it's obvious to everyone, including the dumbest guy in the room, that he has done none of the homework to make good on that conceit.

You know, I could have saved a lot of typing and ripped off Hoggle: They are just mean, dumb, fucked-up little losers.

uberfeminist wrote:Yikes. I almost feel bad for Sasha. He demonstrates some amount of guilt and then Twitter piles on and accuses him of being even worse than he thought he was.

That's what bullies do. Give a bully what they want, they will simply bully even more.

I can't feel too bad, it's mostly self inflicted. He must be something of a masochist honestly, or has internalized his feelings of self-loathing so much outside confirmation is more of a comfort than anything.

Sulman wrote:For God's sake man, have some backbone.

It is utterly awful to see someone willingly subjugate themselves to clear and obvious bullying.

From which we learn that Sasha Pixlee is a cunt - and even the people he wants to be friends with think so.

Is @PhoebeKwon for real?

Linus wrote:Is @PhoebeKwon for real?

Haha, I take it you looked at her timeline?

It just goes to show, as bad as you think some people can get, there is always somebody worse.

Linus wrote:Is @PhoebeKwon for real?

NVM, pretty sure it's a troll.

Dick Strawkins wrote:

Sulman wrote:For God's sake man, have some backbone.

It is utterly awful to see someone willingly subjugate themselves to clear and obvious bullying.

Sasha Pixlee (I honestly thought that was a Pharyngula handle the first time I read it) is the idiot who accused DJ Grothe of making a rape threat against him after DJ joked about that his gay friends who like 'bears' might find Pixlee attractive.

I would have thought that Pixlee would regard getting clusterfucked by gay men as a suitable penance for his white cis-male non-crip self... Ah, now I see! It would, in fact, be a privilege and he is not worthy. Also, privilege is bad m'kay!

I need some rather more stylish S&M to cleanse my palate:
[youtube]AwzaifhSw2c[/youtube]

Skep tickle wrote:Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.

You a doctor or something?

I think the same way, thanks to numerous phone calls to the vet. Past few years, I was leasing some of my horses to a Summer camp. They'd call me and say, "So-and-So has a cut on his leg." -- Which leg? He's got four. Where on the leg - cannon bone, hock, gaskin? How long, how wide and how deep is this "cut"? Are there any foreign objects in it? Swelling? Heat? Discharge? Is he sound or lame? The vagueness drove me nuts.

Mykeru wrote: ...They are just mean, dumb, fucked-up little losers.

Well written. One gets a creeping sense of frustration when you see the same statements wheeled out again, and again, and again. I was pleased to see Barbara Drescher wading in like the headmistress and bollocking everyone for being so fucking daft.

Nobody has come out and said it, but the clear line about Shermer appears to be: If he is innocent, so be it. He is merely collateral damage in a war that needs to be won. What kind of people does that make us? This is supposed to be coming from Skeptics?

real horrorshow wrote:

deLurch wrote:If Paul Myers says it's OK to mock creepy guys, I would take that as a direct invitation to open the flood gates on his ass.

I thought we had!

Oh no. What we've done so far is only a small taste of things to come. Haven't you been reading the Slymepit backchannel?