Bleeding from the Bunghole

[Dick Strawkins]

I notice that UK student and SJW, Alex Gabriel, has joined FTB.
If I were a betting man I would have wagered my testicles on Gabriel being an inevitable target of FTB. Not only does he fit in with their political viewpoint but he's been shamelessly sucking up to them for the past year or so.
He is generating a bit of attention at the moment over a recent article where he attacks Richard Dawkins:

http://heresyclub.com/2013/08/yes-richa ... re-racist/

Yet Gabriel has faced exactly the same accusations of racism and islamophobia himself over his support of London University students societies using the Jesus and Mo cartoons.

:think:

[Ä uest]

http://dev.storify.com/api/summary

The cult also expressed concern that EG takes so much time during the day to storify them, PZ says hundreds of storifies everyday....

Is there any evidence EG is doing this by hand, and just doesn't have a couple of a bot set up to scrape twitter and storify it?

That's certainly what I would do. Just automatically storify anything John Scalzi says, 'cause Scalzi is such a dumbass SJW dildo, and scrape everything PZ does for similar reasons and then once a day or whatever read them and blog them.

I truly cannot fathom an honest to asimov science fiction author making the claim scraping this shit and storifying it is harassment. What a fucking dumbass asshole.

And the notion this sort of logic that all the FTB+ crowd has shown is taught at Universities I mean really makes me saddened, and more than a little afraid for my children's sake.


Scalzi you fuckface, get your ass on the B Ark.

[Tapir]

On Twitter isn't 'obsessively collecting people's tweets' just the same as 'following' someone?

I wouldn't know....I don't use such things..., :snooty:

[Tony Parsehole]

Are we still talking about Amigas?

[VAXherd]

I truly cannot fathom an honest to asimov science fiction author making the claim scraping this shit and storifying it is harassment. What a fucking dumbass asshole.

It's a dirty secret that inside a modern-day educated liberal-minded citizen who happens to be male is a hunter gatherer man who knows that a woman's number one use for him is to protect her from the men in other bands. (Sorry, equal time.)

Scalzi you fuckface, get your ass on the B Ark.

Clean telephones are nice.

[Tapir]

Are we still talking about Amigas?

I had an Amiga.

Got it from Dixons. Came with Batman, New Zealand Story, F18 Interceptor and Deluxe Paint.

Lovely stuff.

[Mykeru]

Let's try the typo free edition:

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2893/9520 ... 262c_c.jpg

[AndrewV69]

And the notion this sort of logic that all the FTB+ crowd has shown is taught at Universities I mean really makes me saddened, and more than a little afraid for my children's sake.

If my kids (and nephews and nieces) are indication I suspect a good many will be fine. They know they are being shovelled horseshit and they ignore it. The ones who are already damaged are the ones who will lap it up.

Scalzi you fuckface, get your ass on the B Ark.

Hahaha.

[Tony Parsehole]

Are we still talking about Amigas?

I had an Amiga.

Got it from Dixons. Came with Batman, New Zealand Story, F18 Interceptor and Deluxe Paint.

Lovely stuff.

Ha! Deluxe paint! I remember that one.
Moonstone (A hard Days Knight), Dizzy and Darkmere were my childhood.

[AndrewV69]

So EG is a criminal who has probably already committed crimes and must be shut down:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/08/15/s ... ent-496830

The Raven on the Hill
August 15, 2013 at 11:24 pm

Upthread: “This isn’t just a content aggregation thing. He storifies prominent and less-prominent atheist women and feminists in a context that leaves pointers for trolls and other harrassers to follow suit.”

This is trolling for harassers, a new crime enabled by the internet. It probably falls under the internet harassment statutes in some states.

And: “This kind of stalking (making sure the victim knows you are watching them at all times) is often a prelude to much more serious and violent actions.”

I suspect that EG has already committed crimes. If Storify’s management had any sense, they’d shut EG down, fast, before EG commits more and Storify’s name becomes associated with it. Failing that, they would be well advised to check EG out—EG sounds like serious trouble.

Also, Justin Vacula must denounce EG.

[TedDahlberg]

I haven't read any of Scalzi's novels so I'm not a fan, but I can understand why he's at least SJW friendly. A lot of geeks are SJW's and we know how fickle the SJW demographic can be, but geeks who oppose the nonsense of the SJW's are still going to read his stuff even if they disagree with his nonfiction, ideological writing, because nonSJW geeks will read pretty much any SF and fantasy.

Here, Scalzi the SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR;

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2013/07/17/b ... rs-and-me/

evidently, when it might impact him, then you know, whatever you want to do, that's jes' peachy.

Scalzi says in that blog post, regarding people having the right to boycott anyone they feel like:

(Mind you, I don’t suspect on this particular topic, any boycotts of Card or me would overlap.)

Er, actually… I will not be spending money on watching Ender's Game, nor any potential Old Man's War movie. And for largely the same reason, that they both are more than happy to misrepresent their opponents in unpleasant ways and to use "facts" which seem to originate in some alternate universe.

And re: still reading his stuff despite disagreeing with him about his ideology… I can't speak for the general case, but personally as a utter geek who read and liked Scalzi's novels before he turned out to be the most enormous ass, I can't bring msyelf to keep reading his stuff. And I'm not usually one to dismiss a work simply because I disagree with its creator on something entirely unrelated. But his particular way of doing things piss me off no end.

For what it's worth, I do think he's a pretty good writer. Maybe a bit on the lighter side, but entertaining. The books I've read by him have been quick reads and very enjoyable (with the possible exception of the codas of Redshirts; I understand what he was going for, I just don't think it worked).

[Karmakin]

It's kind of fun to see feminists look at James Bond being held captive being taken presumably to his death, then escape capture and convert the enemy agent to a friend and classify that as rape.

Indeed. The theme ("trope") of mortal enemy turned life saving friend is quite venerable. Usually it's between men, but often between men and women. I can't think of an instance between women, but there probably are some.

Fuck, pretty much all of Shonen Manga/Anime is based upon that trope.

[Dick Strawkins]

From Alex Gabriels blog - one of his first attempts to ingratiate himself with the Minnesota mafia.

http://www.alexgabriel.co.uk/post/29156 ... t-bullying

He discusses the following Skepsheik image:

https://p.twimg.com/Az9Hf3TCYAAz0Ap.png

Apparently oblivious to the fact that it is a parody of probably the most famous magazine cover image of the previous year - the Time Magazine "Are you Mom enough?" issue.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/ar ... 21_600.jpg

This fact flies completely over his head as the SJW hamster spins the wheel in his head to power the following series of conclusions:

It implies a man who takes Rebecca Watson’s side, in this case PZ Myers, must either be childlike or have a submissive fetish for which he could be labelled perverse - as if no man in his right mind could simply think a feminist woman’s attitude was right, and to think so would be deserving of mockery.

It uses a breastfeeding allusion to ridicule a feminist woman, as if childrearing is an essential symbol of a woman’s role, rather than something a woman might choose to do, or not, at some point in her life.

It depicts said woman’s body in sexual terms rather than addressing her statements (though I don’t know if this was prompted by any particular statement, or just by generalised resentment), as if the creators simply feel entitled to show her that way.

It reads ‘Are you fem enough?’ - either this means ‘femme’ or ‘feminine’, in which case it presents being like a woman as something degrading, or it means ‘feminist’, in which case it presents that response to women’s lives and experiences as a fad or arbitrary quality of no real value, as in ‘Are you tall enough?’

It dismisses her reaction to being regularly threatened, insulted and indeed dismissed as ‘manufactured’. It is - by things like this.

:doh:

Expect more of this level of 'analysis'.

[Michael J]

I'm a recent convert to Scalzi's novels and quite enjoy them. I agree 100% they aren't thought provoking but are good yarns. I also liked Redshirts but stopped half way through the first coda

[AndrewV69]

I am just going to drop this off here:
http://d24w6bsrhbeh9d.cloudfront.net/ph ... 00b_v3.jpg

[Slither]

For what it's worth, I do think he's a pretty good writer. Maybe a bit on the lighter side, but entertaining. The books I've read by him have been quick reads and very enjoyable (with the possible exception of the codas of Redshirts; I understand what he was going for, I just don't think it worked).

I agree, especially about the Redshirts codas -- those were simply awful.

Regarding Orson Scott Card, though, I think people are being unfair to him. What happened to him was that the Mormon church came down on him hard because his earlier works were too supportive of homosexuality, and they threatened to excommunicate him unless he immediately wrote some homophobic texts as penance and keep in line with the Mormon church rulings from then on. Now, it is easier for young people to say that he should have stuck to his principles and refused. However, when you have a wife and children, leaving them is not so easy. Personally, I think his wife and kids should have supported him, and told the church that they'd stick by OSC no matter what. Apparently, though, that didn't happen.

[The Tim Channel]

Just got done listening to G's podcast. Good show mate. Like the "mystery" priest at a grisly accident site, I was never here. That said, I've just formalized a web-post on the dreaded new terror tool that is being developed in the weapon science division of FTBullies.

http://thetimchannel.wordpress.com/2013 ... luxe-9000/

Enjoy.

[AndrewV69]

I'm a recent convert to Scalzi's novels and quite enjoy them. I agree 100% they aren't thought provoking but are good yarns. I also liked Redshirts but stopped half way through the first coda

I have not read him that I can recall and after this little incident (EG is a stalker? Really?) I am highly unlikely to in future.

[AndrewV69]

For what it's worth, I do think he's a pretty good writer. Maybe a bit on the lighter side, but entertaining. The books I've read by him have been quick reads and very enjoyable (with the possible exception of the codas of Redshirts; I understand what he was going for, I just don't think it worked).

I agree, especially about the Redshirts codas -- those were simply awful.

Regarding Orson Scott Card, though, I think people are being unfair to him. What happened to him was that the Mormon church came down on him hard because his earlier works were too supportive of homosexuality, and they threatened to excommunicate him unless he immediately wrote some homophobic texts as penance and keep in line with the Mormon church rulings from then on. Now, it is easier for young people to say that he should have stuck to his principles and refused. However, when you have a wife and children, leaving them is not so easy. Personally, I think his wife and kids should have supported him, and told the church that they'd stick by OSC no matter what. Apparently, though, that didn't happen.

*sigh*

To me (yes easy for me to say I guess) is he should have taken his immediate family and himself out of the church. I do not mind being friendly with Christians but that would have been unacceptable.

On a related note, I read Ender's Game and its sequel Speaker for the Dead, and after that I was done with him. Never read anything by him after that because by then he felt "flat" (hard to describe my perception actually, seeing as I do not actually have an english word for it).

[Dick Strawkins]

Ophelia is deep in the hole and digging furiously.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /quantity/

A new post by her moves on from calling DJ Grothe a nazi...

Oh I think I get it – what DJ Grothe meant by saying he thinks “unduly-moralistic scolds end up actively diminishing human flourishing by their sex-negativity.”

He means if we get our way, and sexual harassment at atheist/skeptic conferences becomes unfashionable (aka “politically incorrect”), then there will be less sex at those conferences. There will be less total sex. Our goal, if achieved, would lead to less sex. That equals sex negativity.

Yes, if you define it that way, he’s right. The kind of sex where a dudebro plies a woman with alcohol until she becomes too out of it to consider whether or not she wants to have sex with him and just has it – that kind of sex there would be less of.

So, yes, if you’re thinking about sex purely from the angle of “I want as much of it as possible, under whatever conditions, in whatever circumstances, whatever the other person actually thinks about it” then anything that gets in the way of that goal is going to appear to be sex-negative.

But that’s a slaveowner’s way of thinking about sex.

Now he's a slaveowner!

[Tribble]

Dog am I dense, I just got "Forget it Jake...it's 'Ginatown". Sometimes it takes me a while, but I get there.

I'm liking Barbara Drescher in that conversation, she seems to have her head on straight. I wonder if she comments on FfTB? I think PeePee might ban her for blasphemy.

Unless something has changed, the answer is 'no.' She works for JREF and stays away from the FtB clown convention.

She has a blog but has cut way, way back on posting: http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/ (Only 3 this year and one announcing TAM2013.)

[Tribble]

Erm, I'm pretty sure PZ's original "Shermer is a big bad rapist" post did mention that alcohol was related. The following post with the "quasi-raped" bullshit was posted as a reinforcement of Shermer's creep tactics of forcing alcohol down delicate flowers's gullets as they struggled helplessly against their instinct to gulp down anything in their cups for fear of being rude.

No, it didn't. People asked what the nature of the coercion was, and PZ added the detail about booze in the comments. I haven''t checked to see if it's in the OP now, but it definitely wasn't at first.

I see, they don't understand coercion (along with a great many other things):

The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of psychological pressure, physical force, or threats. The crime of intentionally and unlawfully restraining another's freedom by threatening to commit a crime, accusing the victim of a crime, disclosing any secret that would seriously impair the victim's reputation in the community, or by performing or refusing to perform an official action lawfully requested by the victim, or by causing an official to do so.

Having your wine glass refilled does not count as coercion under the 'reasonable person' standard.

Every time they open their mouths, they make the A/C community worse out of ignorance and their dumping boat-loads of stupidity and misinformation into the conversation or by their hysterically over-blowing the innocuous. In the end, they trivialize rape, women, youth, jurisprudence, rationality and skepticism through their divisive and silly contributions while adding nothing worth having to the community.

[Dick Strawkins]

Just to follow up the DJ Grothe slaveowner post, what is it with this "dudebro" expression?
It's basically an epithet directed against, what, non-SJW heterosexual men? Isn't it?

And Ophelia's description of their intented actions with women -

"plies a woman with alcohol until she becomes too out of it to consider whether or not she wants to have sex with him and just has it"

Well, isn't that basically describing rape?

I guess you could say it's ambiguous and it may mean something along the lines of giving women enough alcohol to make them non-sober, under which conditions they may be less inhibited and more likely to get physical compared to when they have no alcohol in their system (although the same, of course does apply to men!) But I think the more likely intention of her words is to conjure up a Steubenville type scenario, involving an unconscious or semi-conscious woman and a very much conscious man who proceeds to rape her.

Now, while I don't discount the possibility that this ever happens (statistically it's bound to occur given enough people and enough drunken parties), I suspect that the unconscious sex scenario pictured would be horrifying AND CLEARLY SEEN AS RAPE by the vast majority of people, both men and women, and thus the idea that there is some cabal of senior skeptics that regularly behave in such a manner - and that the rest of us support such behavior defies everything we know about the modern skeptic/atheist movement.

The other possibility, and one that probably shouldn't be discounted, is that Ophelia views non-sober sex (hook-ups between two people who have both been drinking but are nowhere near blackout level inebriation) as non-consenting sex.

[Jan Steen]

This is how Chinese Whispers works. From Carrie Poppy’s FB interaction with Barbara Drescher we can infer that Peezus didn’t really know the woman (‘Jane Doe’) who accused Shermer of rape. Otherwise, she wouldn’t have asked CP to act as intermediary. But Pharyngula commenter Tony, The Queer Shoop knows better. Jane Doe was a “trusted friend” of Peezus.

This is the situation. A woman that has earned PZs trust confides in him that she was raped by MS. She has gotten no help from the org she dealt with in the past. She is not seeking to put MS in jail. She wants to remain anonymous. She wants toget her story out to aid other women who may be in contact with MS. PZ wrestles with the choice. Do as a trusted friend requests or sit on the story.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-671089

Fascinating to catch myth making in the process, isn’t it? If we extrapolate from here we can see Peezus raising Jane Doe from the dead in, say, ten years' time.

How to call this mess? I'm not too happy with names ending in "-gate". I'd prefer something with "debacle" or "affair" or "fiasco" in it. Something like "The Great FTB Debacle" or "The Pharyngula Fiasco."

[Dick Strawkins]

Dog am I dense, I just got "Forget it Jake...it's 'Ginatown". Sometimes it takes me a while, but I get there.

I'm liking Barbara Drescher in that conversation, she seems to have her head on straight. I wonder if she comments on FfTB? I think PeePee might ban her for blasphemy.

Unless something has changed, the answer is 'no.' She works for JREF and stays away from the FtB clown convention.

She has a blog but has cut way, way back on posting: http://icbseverywhere.com/blog/ (Only 3 this year and one announcing TAM2013.)

She has been attacked by PZ in a post a few months back. He clearly hates her.
Damn uppity woman who doesn't know her place (which is, for PZ, standing quietly behind the great Patriarch of Freethought Blogs)


http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... n-novella/

[Jan Steen]

I notice that UK student and SJW, Alex Gabriel, has joined FTB.
If I were a betting man I would have wagered my testicles on Gabriel being an inevitable target of FTB. Not only does he fit in with their political viewpoint but he's been shamelessly sucking up to them for the past year or so.
He is generating a bit of attention at the moment over a recent article where he attacks Richard Dawkins:

http://heresyclub.com/2013/08/yes-richa ... re-racist/

Yet Gabriel has faced exactly the same accusations of racism and islamophobia himself over his support of London University students societies using the Jesus and Mo cartoons.

:think:

This second generation FTBer has been noticed and dismissed here yesterday. :D

[Tribble]

Markuze, on the other hand turned up out of the blue on an atheist blog I had a few years back, and left a comment threatening to behead me!
Markuze seems to have no understanding of reality and (unlike @Elevatorgate) never really interacts with those who try to engage him in conversation.

In other words Markuze really does act like he is suffering from a mental illness that disconnects him from reality.
@Elevatorgate, on the other hand acts like someone on the autistic spectrum (he has admitted as much in the past), but someone who has an understanding of the world around him and will interact with others when they try.

Markuze really is crazy. He had bi-polar and additional features of alcohol and drug addiction. He's been jailed, but there's only so much the Montreal police and Canadian Courts can do about it.

[Trophy]

I was very fond of Storify prior to this incident, but it should be noted that it’s currently setup in ways which facilitate stalkers. I’ve circulated on Twitter a picture of the Storify “Add them all” button which is a one-click way to add the last ~800 tweets someone has tweeted on their account. It’s absurdly easy to stalk dozens of women a day with their tool, for a very small amount of time investment. That Mr. Damman and his company don’t see this as something worth addressing (for example, with a “block” function that keeps someone from Storifying more than 5 of your tweets per day or something, as a compromise to Voltaire and Free Speech) is very distressing.

More whining from the pharyngulates on yet another online tool that they did not create, they did not help create, they have no idea how to create, they have not financially supported, and ultimately, they do not need to survive yet *demand* it be made to dance to their tunes.

[Linus]

With thanks to Cornsail over at JREF, here is his/her timeline of the FC(n) going after Shermer:

Cornsail is me, BTW.

[Ape+lust]

Just to follow up the DJ Grothe slaveowner post, what is it with this "dudebro" expression?
It's basically an epithet directed against, what, non-SJW heterosexual men? Isn't it?

And Ophelia's description of their intented actions with women -

"plies a woman with alcohol until she becomes too out of it to consider whether or not she wants to have sex with him and just has it"

Well, isn't that basically describing rape?

I guess you could say it's ambiguous and it may mean something along the lines of giving women enough alcohol to make them non-sober, under which conditions they may be less inhibited and more likely to get physical compared to when they have no alcohol in their system (although the same, of course does apply to men!) But I think the more likely intention of her words is to conjure up a Steubenville type scenario, involving an unconscious or semi-conscious woman and a very much conscious man who proceeds to rape her.

Now, while I don't discount the possibility that this ever happens (statistically it's bound to occur given enough people and enough drunken parties), I suspect that the unconscious sex scenario pictured would be horrifying AND CLEARLY SEEN AS RAPE by the vast majority of people, both men and women, and thus the idea that there is some cabal of senior skeptics that regularly behave in such a manner - and that the rest of us support such behavior defies everything we know about the modern skeptic/atheist movement.

The other possibility, and one that probably shouldn't be discounted, is that Ophelia views non-sober sex (hook-ups between two people who have both been drinking but are nowhere near blackout level inebriation) as non-consenting sex.

More and more, she likes using the Marcotte method of spinning your opponent's possible actions as far as they'll go, then reacting as if they were actually done. Anyone can do that all day if they want to. It's easy work, and Ophelia 2013 is all about the easy.

[Tribble]

Just to follow up the DJ Grothe slaveowner post, what is it with this "dudebro" expression?
It's basically an epithet directed against, what, non-SJW heterosexual men? Isn't it?

Right. It's meant to dehumanize and demean the target.

And Ophelia's description of their intented actions with women -

"plies a woman with alcohol until she becomes too out of it to consider whether or not she wants to have sex with him and just has it"

Well, isn't that basically describing rape?

I guess you could say it's ambiguous and it may mean something along the lines of giving women enough alcohol to make them non-sober, under which conditions they may be less inhibited and more likely to get physical compared to when they have no alcohol in their system (although the same, of course does apply to men!) But I think the more likely intention of her words is to conjure up a Steubenville type scenario, involving an unconscious or semi-conscious woman and a very much conscious man who proceeds to rape her.

Now, while I don't discount the possibility that this ever happens (statistically it's bound to occur given enough people and enough drunken parties), I suspect that the unconscious sex scenario pictured would be horrifying AND CLEARLY SEEN AS RAPE by the vast majority of people, both men and women, and thus the idea that there is some cabal of senior skeptics that regularly behave in such a manner - and that the rest of us support such behavior defies everything we know about the modern skeptic/atheist movement.

Right. And I think the vast majority of people understand this.

The other possibility, and one that probably shouldn't be discounted, is that Ophelia views non-sober sex (hook-ups between two people who have both been drinking but are nowhere near blackout level inebriation) as non-consenting sex.

That is current rad-feminist thinking. Ophelia seems to identify herself (though her writings) as a feminist and (through her writings) seems to support much of what's wrong with radical feminism. I think it's a fair extension to make that accusation barring an explicit disclaimer otherwise.

[Hemisphere]

Rystenfenttensys wrote:

Scalzi is a douche canoe of the first order. The only thing separating him from the A+ assholes is that he lacks the courage of his convictions and puts on a (relatively) more reasonable public face, and quietly bans rather than trumpeting how great he is when he does it.

He's also a fantastic example of why I pretty much don't read sci-fi that's been written in the last 30 years. If his brand of drivel is the best they can come up with, I want nothing to do with it. I flush better sci-fi down the shitter every morning.

I really enjoyed the Old Man's War series. It was a nice change in sci-fi from massive tomes like the type written by P.F. Hamilton. There's no cognitive dissonance in disliking the author but liking their books - e.g. Ender's Game is probably one of the best books to come out of sci-fi, and the author is a total douchecanoe.

[Jan Steen]

The Pharyngula commentariat like to refer to themselves as The Horde. The mental image thus conveyed is slightly misleading.

http://i.imgur.com/oZoHEZd.jpg

[Zenspace]

Biohazard, just wanted to say thanks for posting the Poopy/Drescher FB conversation, but the fascist tit who runs this joint locked the thread before I saw it!

It amazes me that Poppy was arguing over a point she was directly involved in, but hadn't bothered to monitor the original post for updated. Her whole argument against Dalton is meaningless because she's isn't even aware of the addendum that Dalton was speaking about.

[Mykeru]

ATTN SHERMERS LAWYERS-- Not only is PZ fucking up his copy/pasting from some email list, but Carrie is also fucking up. 'The alcohol bit appears to be a reference to one of the accusers saying alcohol was involved in her alleged rape.' Where, Carrie? Cause its not in the 'statement' PZ posted. I, and Mr. Deity, learned of this right now when you posted it on Facebook.

Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.

I'm trying to shake my head really hard so it rattles my brain around until I contra-coup to a degree I can understand the lack of thought processes on display in Carrie Poppy.

So the "Shermer Rape" story came from Carrie Poppy, she knows (by some means) the person making the accusation, trusts and believes them and has details that are "very relevant" but can't disclose them. Yet, when she tells us what she does know -- as the disseminator of this tale -- she conflates it with something else P.Z. Myers added after the fact, another anonymous tale that proves Michael Shermer is a cad going the "liquor is quicker" route to destroying a woman's honor. And even after people correct here, she has no idea what they are talking about and stands by her error of attribution.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Yeah, we'll take your word for it Carrie, just tell us when you figure out what that is.

[Mykeru]

With thanks to Cornsail over at JREF, here is his/her timeline of the FC(n) going after Shermer:

Cornsail is me, BTW.

You misspelled "hole"

[deLurch]

Elevatorgate is a kid who wants to be a journalist and is faithfully covering the dramarama with gonzo style... well, as much as you can on the internet. He occasionally acts like a teenager, but he's not any kind of threat. Not least of all because he doesn't live in the same country as most of them and he's a *kid* - he doesn't have the money to travel to these things.

He is a threat in the sense that he exposes their hypocrisy, lies, stupidity and hysteria in an easily digestible manner in their own words. And he does it well.

[Dick Strawkins]

ATTN SHERMERS LAWYERS-- Not only is PZ fucking up his copy/pasting from some email list, but Carrie is also fucking up. 'The alcohol bit appears to be a reference to one of the accusers saying alcohol was involved in her alleged rape.' Where, Carrie? Cause its not in the 'statement' PZ posted. I, and Mr. Deity, learned of this right now when you posted it on Facebook.

Carrie contacted PZ about this 'victim'. They might all three be talking now, but Carrie Poppy was the initial middle-man.

I'm trying to shake my head really hard so it rattles my brain around until I contra-coup to a degree I can understand the lack of thought processes on display in Carrie Poppy.

So the "Shermer Rape" story came from Carrie Poppy, she knows (by some means) the person making the accusation, trusts and believes them and has details that are "very relevant" but can't disclose them. Yet, when she tells us what she does know -- as the disseminator of this tale -- she conflates it with something else P.Z. Myers added after the fact, another anonymous tale that proves Michael Shermer is a cad going the "liquor is quicker" route to destroying a woman's honor. And even after people correct here, she has no idea what they are talking about and stands by her error of attribution.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Yeah, we'll take your word for it Carrie, just tell us when you figure out what that is.

There are some important legal ramifications if it is the case (and the evidence certainly points in that direction) that Carrie Poppy passed on the initial allegation (made by her acquaintance) to Peezus.

California Elements of Defamation

Defamation, which consists of both libel and slander, is defined by case law and statute in California. See Cal. Civ. Code §§ 44, 45a, and 46.

The elements of a defamation claim are:

publication of a statement of fact
that is false,*
unprivileged,
has a natural tendency to injure or which causes "special damage," and
the defendant's fault in publishing the statement amounted to at least negligence.

Publication, which may be written or oral, means communication to a third person who understands the defamatory meaning of the statement and its application to the person to whom reference is made. Publication need not be to the “public” at large; communication to a single individual other than the plaintiff is sufficient. Republishing a defamatory statement made by another is generally not protected.

It appears to me that Carrie may very well find herself guilty of slander/libel due to her role in passing on this information to a "single individual", namely Peezus.

[Tony Parsehole]

The Pharyngula commentariat like to refer to themselves as The Horde. The mental image thus conveyed is slightly misleading.

http://i.imgur.com/oZoHEZd.jpg

A horde of Mongols and a horde of mongs.

[Dick Strawkins]

Elevatorgate is a kid who wants to be a journalist and is faithfully covering the dramarama with gonzo style... well, as much as you can on the internet. He occasionally acts like a teenager, but he's not any kind of threat. Not least of all because he doesn't live in the same country as most of them and he's a *kid* - he doesn't have the money to travel to these things.

He is a threat in the sense that he exposes their hypocrisy, lies, stupidity and hysteria in an easily digestible manner in their own words. And he does it well.

EG is very hit and miss in his actions.
It's mostly miss, but when he hits it can be devastating.

http://i.imgur.com/B9Nab0z.jpg

[Dick Strawkins]

The Pharyngula commentariat like to refer to themselves as The Horde. The mental image thus conveyed is slightly misleading.

http://i.imgur.com/oZoHEZd.jpg

It's interesting that they choose to use the terme 'horde' - a word generally associated with the Mongo army of Ghengis Khan and his successors, probably the most efficient group of rapists the world has ever seen (as evidenced in the genetic heritage of so many currently living in Asia.)

There is a fascinating series of history podcasts about the Mongol invasions at the following link for those who are interested.

http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive

[Tony Parsehole]

@Strawkins.

Cunt pointed me in the direction of those podcasts a while back and yes, they are fantastic.

[Dick Strawkins]

@Strawkins.

Cunt pointed me in the direction of those podcasts a while back and yes, they are fantastic.

They are good, arent they?
I just noticed he has recently added a new podcast, I'll have to download it.

[TedDahlberg]

For what it's worth, I do think he's a pretty good writer. Maybe a bit on the lighter side, but entertaining. The books I've read by him have been quick reads and very enjoyable (with the possible exception of the codas of Redshirts; I understand what he was going for, I just don't think it worked).

I agree, especially about the Redshirts codas -- those were simply awful.

Regarding Orson Scott Card, though, I think people are being unfair to him. What happened to him was that the Mormon church came down on him hard because his earlier works were too supportive of homosexuality, and they threatened to excommunicate him unless he immediately wrote some homophobic texts as penance and keep in line with the Mormon church rulings from then on. Now, it is easier for young people to say that he should have stuck to his principles and refused. However, when you have a wife and children, leaving them is not so easy. Personally, I think his wife and kids should have supported him, and told the church that they'd stick by OSC no matter what. Apparently, though, that didn't happen.

I did not know that about Card. That background does make his actions understandable. But at the same time, to a greater or lesser extent you do have to judge a person by their actions. I can't say I would have acted differently in that situation. But if you look beyond the personal, it's still wrong and potentially made a lot of people's lives that little bit worse.

I can't help but draw parallels to Neil Gaiman; he has family who are scientologists. He has explicitly said that he himself is not, but there are reasonably credible suggestions that he's given money to Scientology in the resent past, presumably because cutting ties with Scientology means cutting ties with family who are still members. Now if that's true, I do have a problem with someone supporting an organisation like that. But at the same time the support is far more indirect than in Card's case. It would be much worse if Gaiman was out there recruiting new members for Scientology.

TL;DR: The world is an unfair mess and fuck if I know what to do about it.

[Linus]

With thanks to Cornsail over at JREF, here is his/her timeline of the FC(n) going after Shermer:

Cornsail is me, BTW.

You misspelled "hole"

Total PWNAGE!

[Jan Steen]

How could I forget to include the most famous Pharyngula commenter.

http://i.imgur.com/7ZgpWx8.jpg

[TedDahlberg]

@Strawkins.

Cunt pointed me in the direction of those podcasts a while back and yes, they are fantastic.

They are good, arent they?
I just noticed he has recently added a new podcast, I'll have to download it.

I'm on the last (five hour!) episode on the fall of the Roman republic at the moment. I'm thoroughly impressed by the quality, and he's simply a great storyteller.

[Southern]

Victim Blaming is also trivializing of rape etc. Here is a working Purity Ball link.

Warning: excessive creep level

[youtube]xt4xqZdsGo0[/youtube]

Peezus Christ. Now I'm traumatized. I know I ignored your Trigger Warning, but are going to blame the victim? As Comrade Physioproffe says before redacting himself, go die in a fire "go diye inna phiree, your motherfuckeen".

[Philip of Tealand]

I like Elevatorgate

Good person, very funny and very thorough in what he does.

If Twitter were not a place where public ideas and opinions were not to be made public then I'd be more anti him

Unless you set your Twitter to private, how the fuck can you complain that your views are being aired publicly?

As for all this PZ rape garbage this is just a step up from the Drama Society's usual stance on all men being rapists until proven guilty by the FtB and Skepchicks.

They are doing their usual thing of throwing around stupid words at the right people and then backing away from the shit-storm they created. That is the reason they hate ElevatorGate, the guy just shows what dreadful people they really are and good on him for it!

Mykeru is not bad either! :) (Excellent poster by the way!)

[BillHamp]

I was very fond of Storify prior to this incident, but it should be noted that it’s currently setup in ways which facilitate stalkers. I’ve circulated on Twitter a picture of the Storify “Add them all” button which is a one-click way to add the last ~800 tweets someone has tweeted on their account. It’s absurdly easy to stalk dozens of women a day with their tool, for a very small amount of time investment. That Mr. Damman and his company don’t see this as something worth addressing (for example, with a “block” function that keeps someone from Storifying more than 5 of your tweets per day or something, as a compromise to Voltaire and Free Speech) is very distressing.

More whining from the pharyngulates on yet another online tool that they did not create, they did not help create, they have no idea how to create, they have not financially supported, and ultimately, they do not need to survive yet *demand* it be made to dance to their tunes.

Yes, I find it hilarious that a 100% opt-in service is something they want changed. They used the analogy of having to not answer their phones in order to stop the harassment. Nope. Just get caller ID and don't bother with the guy if you find his actions intolerable. You can still pick up when you see that your mommy is calling. I find it hilarious that they think that their public tweets are somehow still theirs. Nope again. What you put into the public domain is no longer yours. Maybe they should copyright each Tweet and develop their own TOS so taht they can sue whoever reposts them without permission.

[Guest]

Regarding Orson Scott Card, though, I think people are being unfair to him. What happened to him was that the Mormon church came down on him hard because his earlier works were too supportive of homosexuality, and they threatened to excommunicate him unless he immediately wrote some homophobic texts as penance and keep in line with the Mormon church rulings from then on. Now, it is easier for young people to say that he should have stuck to his principles and refused. However, when you have a wife and children, leaving them is not so easy. Personally, I think his wife and kids should have supported him, and told the church that they'd stick by OSC no matter what. Apparently, though, that didn't happen.

OSC has been member of the board of the National Organization for Marriage since 2009
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/d ... government
(He left this year as the controversies over the comic and the movie were heating up)

The man has inflicted significant damage through his political activism and being threatened with exclusion from his church is not an acceptable excuse for that.

[TedDahlberg]

The Pharyngula commentariat like to refer to themselves as The Horde. The mental image thus conveyed is slightly misleading.

http://i.imgur.com/oZoHEZd.jpg

It's interesting that they choose to use the terme 'horde' - a word generally associated with the Mongo army of Ghengis Khan and his successors, probably the most efficient group of rapists the world has ever seen (as evidenced in the genetic heritage of so many currently living in Asia.)

There is a fascinating series of history podcasts about the Mongol invasions at the following link for those who are interested.

http://www.dancarlin.com/disp.php/hharchive

If they're The Horde, does that make Myers Hordak?

http://i.imgur.com/18LJFGd.png

(I realise I'm way out of my league posting a photoshop in this place, but hey, it's Friday…)

[jjbinx007]

Personally I find the word "Horde" offensive because it sounds like the past tense of whore.

[welch]

Seriously, I just googled storify and my twitter handle and realized that there's a lot of storify'd stuff there.

How did I find out? I had to google it. Number of emails I've gotten automatically from it? none.


Oddly, storify is rather simple to ignore.

[katamari Damassi]

For what it's worth, I do think he's a pretty good writer. Maybe a bit on the lighter side, but entertaining. The books I've read by him have been quick reads and very enjoyable (with the possible exception of the codas of Redshirts; I understand what he was going for, I just don't think it worked).

I agree, especially about the Redshirts codas -- those were simply awful.

Regarding Orson Scott Card, though, I think people are being unfair to him. What happened to him was that the Mormon church came down on him hard because his earlier works were too supportive of homosexuality, and they threatened to excommunicate him unless he immediately wrote some homophobic texts as penance and keep in line with the Mormon church rulings from then on. Now, it is easier for young people to say that he should have stuck to his principles and refused. However, when you have a wife and children, leaving them is not so easy. Personally, I think his wife and kids should have supported him, and told the church that they'd stick by OSC no matter what. Apparently, though, that didn't happen.

I don't feel bad for him. He wants everyone to think that he's being persecuted because he expressed an unpopular opinion, but the guy has been an anti-gay activist and was even on the board or directors of the National Organization for Marriage.

[Tribble]

Regarding Orson Scott Card, though, I think people are being unfair to him. What happened to him was that the Mormon church came down on him hard because his earlier works were too supportive of homosexuality, and they threatened to excommunicate him unless he immediately wrote some homophobic texts as penance and keep in line with the Mormon church rulings from then on. Now, it is easier for young people to say that he should have stuck to his principles and refused. However, when you have a wife and children, leaving them is not so easy. Personally, I think his wife and kids should have supported him, and told the church that they'd stick by OSC no matter what. Apparently, though, that didn't happen.

Card has these problems with gays LONG before he was known. We're talking, based on his writings about his early adult LDS Drama/Directing/Writing as the founder of Utah Valley Repertory Theatre Company forays, his entire adult life. And he's been increasingly vocal, since at least 1990, on the issue.

Further, while I didn't spend a lot of time on it, I find nothing to support your contention. Not even easily Googled Internet rumors.

So, I just find your claim to be in serious conflict with Cards own statements and actions while lacking any sort of verification to the point of hearsay evidence. Now, if you've got Card's own statements of threatened excommunication, I'll take that. But repeated assertions, rumors and hearsay from 'some dude on the Internet,' no matter how sincerely believed, doesn't float my boat.

[TedDahlberg]

Hmm, I'm liking this metaphor more and more… they're fighting against He-Man… and look, there's even Nerd of Redhead:

http://www.he-man.org/assets/images/col ... 6_full.jpg

[katamari Damassi]

How could I forget to include the most famous Pharyngula commenter.

http://i.imgur.com/7ZgpWx8.jpg

Just as dangerous. Imagine if the Pharyngulites managed to get some momentum.

[Lsuoma]

Re: "bleeding from the bunghole"

My reflex is to want to know more about it. Is it red, purple, or black blood? Does it pass through the bunghole, or is it present mostly just on wiping? Is it clots, free-flowing blood, or mixed with stool? Any anal, rectal or abdominal pain? Any fevers or weight change? Anything get put into the anus, including any anal intercourse? Any use of blood thinners, aspirin, or other anti-inflammatory medications? Any history of hemorrhoids, fissures, inflammatory bowel disease, colon polyps or cancer? What's the blood pressure & pulse? Shall we do anoscopy in the office? Does the person need labs, need lower endoscopy, need hospitalization?

*sigh* I'll try to quash it.

Ask PeeZus.

[TedDahlberg]

Just as dangerous. Imagine if the Pharyngulites managed to get some momentum.

True, best to remember not to stand downhill from them.