Bleeding from the Bunghole

[another lurker]

Fran, one of Final Fantasy XII's bunny girls, was a mainstay in my main party. Certainly didn't mind watching her run. :lol:

Now that is a nice ass.

[JackRayner]

BillHamp said:

If there is a problem with how private companies make games sold to private individuals, the answer is not a kickstarter campaign to complain about it. The answer is to produce your own video game that will be a marketing success and change the industry.

Wow. If you think the days still exist where even a unique and extremely talented and experienced individual could actually create and successfully produce a video game still exist, I want whatever drugs you're using; they must be fun.

Game production is a highly formulaic, extremely expensive corporate venture. The days of a handful of talented kids sitting in their basement producing qualty material are long, long gone.

In that sense, the video game industry is precisely like the music industry: individual skill and talent are meaningless, utterly meaningless. It is a corporate machine now.

Actually, the days of a handful of talented kids sitting in their basement producing quality material are coming back strong. Not sure if you keep up with the games industry, but some of the best games of the last few years have been indie games. Some are produced by large teams, but many have been produced by individuals, or teams of less than 5 people. They've made such waves that Sony and Microsoft have being gunning for them pretty strongly. The big developers/publishers have noticed as well, and some are trying to reproduce these successes in-house.

As for the "formulaic" bit, there are plenty of examples of bigger developers/publishers that still experiment. Many suffer, but enough succeed. There will always be franchises like Call of Duty, that stick to the same formula and avoid alienating anyone by introducing too much novelty/innovation, but I think it's a mistake to claim that everything else is dead just because these types of games rake in the dough while playing it safe.

[Zenspace]

I'm suddenly nostalgic for nails and screwdrivers.

Which is better for performing an abortion?

Discuss.

Gaaaahhhhhh!!!!! :angry-screaming:

[screwtape]

Panty & Stocking is a cartoon about two angels that got kicked out of heaven for bad behavior, and they're stuck on Earth....
There's a monster made out of shit, and enough cursing to get it banned from most television network...

Hey! I liked Dogma!

[debaser71]

Re: boob plate and negative stereotypes

Even if it is true that "boob plate" armour wouldn't provide realistic protection against sharp weaponry, we need to reiterate once again -- it's fantasy. It's fiction. It's poetic license. Whatever you want to call it. For all the things usually depicted in games, particularly the ones featuring violence of some kind, "boob plate" is one of the least concerning points. If it should count as a concern at all. It's debatable.

Let's consider what usually happens in a game featuring violence. Main characters encounters baddies. Main characters dispatches baddies. How do they dispatch those baddies? Sometimes it's clean, sometimes it's bloody, and sometimes it's a goddamn gorefest. Limbs dismembered, heads decapitated, brain tissue splattered on the walls. Some people, like Jack Thompson, believes this desensitizes children (and young teens) and causes them to perpetuate violence outside of the game as well as inside. Most people, including some scientists, say this is bullshit and they have the science to prove it. The overall consensus is, it's fine.*

But show some boobs and everyone loses their fucking minds. I don't get it.

Some critics (probably a few of them self-proclaimed feminists) complained about the skimpy clothing in the newest Mortal Kombat installment.

Really? Mortal Kombat is one of the bloodiest franchise in gaming and that's remained constant for twenty years, where in each installment the developers put their heads together to think up what's the more creative way to kill the other opponent. It features both men and women who are both able to kick their opponent's arse, and at the end of the round their own seperate fatality to inflict. In the midst of all that, is the most important thing really to focus on their fucking costumes?

*And yes, let's not forget that overwhelmingly these faceless scrubs that you either kill or beat the shit out off are men. Or at the very least male representations. Not a peep about that. (Which, to be clear, I don't really care much about myself because, again, they're not real. It's fantasy. It's fiction. But it's interesting to note the different reaction to the two. Cut a man in two, that's fine and dandy; have a woman show some cleavage, woah, what the hell is wrong with you? Sometimes even in the same game to boot! Crazy.) That said, what do I think about Quiet in MGS5?

I agree with what you say but I'll just add that for some people fantasy violence is still fantasy....but fantasy sex is still sex. YMMV.

[CommanderTuvok]

For a while I've been trying to think of who Rebecca Watson reminded me of, and now I've remembered.
When I was a kid in the 70s, I used to watch a programme called The Singing Ringing Tree. The central character was a spoiled and selfish princess who looked like this:

https://www.tynesidecinema.co.uk/_site_ ... 91.334.jpg

Remind you of anyone?

Yes, the creature on the right reminds me of PZ Myers.

[Aneris]

Damion Reinhardt is making myths:

Recently, the SlymePit-originated meme (likely never intended as a factual claim) that PZ Myers harassed a woman onstage at Skepticon III has gone viral and infected the broader internet as an unqualified truth-claim

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... arassment/
(haven't read it yet, just recognize the claim due to prior twitter exchange)

His comment links to this comment by Dick Strawkins

Was PZ Myers accused of sexual harrassment at Skepticon 3?

You could say that Rebecca Watson was just joking, but that's hardly likely is it?
She would never laugh about something as serious as sexual harrassment of women at a skeptics conference.

Would she?

Well of course not!. What was I thinking! :naughty:

But wouldn't that mean she is accusing PZ Myers of being a sexual predator at conferences?
:think:

Trigger Warning!
[youtube]BcFH1ObcdOY[/youtube]

[clownshoe]

OK, so a few of you think that rather than complain about games, one should make one's own, and that to do so is easy, and sure to be successful ... because of some goofball cookie toy game. Right? Right.

OK, I am disappoint that Fallout 3 will not run properly on Win 7 -- it is not compatible. So, who's got the more than 20 million dollars, the 50+ coders, artists, etc., and the kajillion hours to help me rewrite it?

C'mon, folks, I am not talking about some pansy-assed cookie games that look like they were coded a decade ago, or some other closet-shop indie goofball game that through extraordinary luck and coincidence gets successful. I am talking about main stream and potentially globally successful games, which is primarily what AS and Rayner are talking about.

As far as I'm concerned, that one goofball example proves the rule.

Some of those pansy-assed cookie games on mobile phones make buckets of cash. Mobile gaming and Facebook gaming are a big part of the mainstream gaming market these days.

Steam (and other services like that) have made it very easy for independent developers to publish to a huge audience.

As for PC games...
Minecraft was developed by a single developer. I don't get it, but apparently 33+ million purchasers do.

[JackRayner]

Panty & Stocking is a cartoon about two angels that got kicked out of heaven for bad behavior, and they're stuck on Earth....
There's a monster made out of shit, and enough cursing to get it banned from most television network...

Hey! I liked Dogma!

Haha. Interesting.

I think I might have actually seen part of that movie before. My momma was watching it on TV, I believe. Maybe I'll give it a try when I'm bored one of these days.

[dogen]

OK, so a few of you think that rather than complain about games, one should make one's own, and that to do so is easy, and sure to be successful ... because of some goofball cookie toy game. Right? Right.

OK, I am disappoint that Fallout 3 will not run properly on Win 7 -- it is not compatible. So, who's got the more than 20 million dollars, the 50+ coders, artists, etc., and the kajillion hours to help me rewrite it?

C'mon, folks, I am not talking about some pansy-assed cookie games that look like they were coded a decade ago, or some other closet-shop indie goofball game that through extraordinary luck and coincidence gets successful. I am talking about main stream and potentially globally successful games, which is primarily what AS and Rayner are talking about.

As far as I'm concerned, that one goofball example proves the rule.

Some of those pansy-assed cookie games on mobile phones make buckets of cash. Mobile gaming and Facebook gaming are a big part of the mainstream gaming market these days.

Steam (and other services like that) have made it very easy for independent developers to publish to a huge audience.

As for PC games...
Minecraft was developed by a single developer. I don't get it, but apparently 33+ million purchasers do.

Also, let's not forget the modding community, which gave us awesome games like Team Fortress. With the widespread availability of free/cheap game engines, the barrier to entry in producing a high-quality game has, ironically, never been lower.

[LurkerPerson]

How is he making myths? He clearly says "likely never intended as a factual claim" in parenthesis. I think that's pretty spot on. It was just the usual taking the shit out of the pharyngulite SJW's by giving them a dose of their own retarded rhetoric.
i.e applying their own standards to themselves.

[dogen]

OK, so a few of you think that rather than complain about games, one should make one's own, and that to do so is easy, and sure to be successful ... because of some goofball cookie toy game. Right? Right.

OK, I am disappoint that Fallout 3 will not run properly on Win 7 -- it is not compatible. So, who's got the more than 20 million dollars, the 50+ coders, artists, etc., and the kajillion hours to help me rewrite it?

C'mon, folks, I am not talking about some pansy-assed cookie games that look like they were coded a decade ago, or some other closet-shop indie goofball game that through extraordinary luck and coincidence gets successful. I am talking about main stream and potentially globally successful games, which is primarily what AS and Rayner are talking about.

As far as I'm concerned, that one goofball example proves the rule.

Some of those pansy-assed cookie games on mobile phones make buckets of cash. Mobile gaming and Facebook gaming are a big part of the mainstream gaming market these days.

Steam (and other services like that) have made it very easy for independent developers to publish to a huge audience.

See in particular Steam's Greenlight thingy, which I only became aware of this morning while looking for some new games to buy:

http://steamcommunity.com/greenlight

[Guest]

http://www.freezepage.com/1379365432AKGHPZIDMW

How does that validate the story? Watson provided the e-mails and it's clear that the woman embellished the response she got and apparently the incident as well (not to mention that Watson was absolutely reasonable in her response imo).

It doesn't seem much different from the FtB event-twisting game. That woman seems like an idiot.

[Guest]

http://www.freezepage.com/1379365432AKGHPZIDMW

How does that validate the story? Watson provided the e-mails and it's clear that the woman embellished the response she got and apparently the incident as well (not to mention that Watson was absolutely reasonable in her response imo).

It doesn't seem much different from the FtB event-twisting game. That woman seems like an idiot.

BELIEVE THE VICTIMS.

[Spence]

Thanks for the breakdown.
I listened to a panel on this topic at a sf con recently. The following suggestion was made to get affordable inter-stellar messaging, dunno if at all feasible in practice, but anyway: If in the future a lot of electricity is produced using parabolic solar panels, these could double as radio telescopes and some of the excess power in summer could be used to transmit messages.

I noticed that "michaelbusch" has commented on the pharyngula thread - his comments are a pretty accurate description of what can and cannot be done and worth reading. Perhaps not surprisingly, he seems to be a postgrad radio astronomer. Luckily the horde are too busy fighting amongst each other (just like here on a good day - and I know I'm not innocent in that regard!) to have noticed, so his countering of inaccuracies by PZ hasn't resulted in the usual dogpile.

[DownThunder]

Re: John Greg and others about feminists making their own games. Yes its unlikely that they would create a major title, but so what? This goes much further into their psychology. They aren't creative or constructive individuals, they are destructive and parasitic. They latch onto groups, topics and subjects and try to infect everything with their own ideas, instead of creating their own to stand by themselves.

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she? Well for starters it would put responsibility on her, she would then be open to criticism about the portrayal of the characters because it would be her work. Instead of showing us all what is "right" she chooses to point out endlessly what is "wrong" with everyone else. She is detestable and spineless.

[JackRayner]

I'm suddenly nostalgic for nails and screwdrivers.

Which is better for performing an abortion?

Discuss.

Though some will argue that it's a carnie trick, a hand could get the job done just as swell.

[Guesty]

http://www.freezepage.com/1379365432AKGHPZIDMW

How does that validate the story? Watson provided the e-mails and it's clear that the woman embellished the response she got and apparently the incident as well (not to mention that Watson was absolutely reasonable in her response imo).

It doesn't seem much different from the FtB event-twisting game. That woman seems like an idiot.

It looks like Mayhew didn't have all the facts about that particular incident.

However, I don't think that invalidate Mayhew's other point in her post, namely giving a shout out to other good female skeptics and their work, whom Watson seems to want to dismiss, such as calling all of Sharon Hill's twitter followers for credulous. She also tries to imply that Sara is stupid for supposedly not knowing about the feminist work of Hall and Tavris.

[Brive1987]

To Paris for three weeks -just letting my privilege show!

[ERV]

It looks like the exact same incident, but the 2011 writer was trying to be diplomatic with Skepchicks ('you all didnt make sky kids feel welcome, while two other Big Names did, you should try harder'), while the 2013 writer was over their shit.

Sara Mayhew certainly didnt lie.

[KiwiInOz]

Fran, one of Final Fantasy XII's bunny girls, was a mainstay in my main party. Certainly didn't mind watching her run. :lol:

Now that is a nice ass.

So is this.

http://theblogofkevin.files.wordpress.c ... 20x480.jpg

[bovarchist]

To Paris for three weeks -just letting my privilege show!

Whatever floats your boat. I just got back from several days camping here...

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/8jYxMaA.jpg

[Guest]

It looks like the exact same incident, but the 2011 writer was trying to be diplomatic with Skepchicks ('you all didnt make sky kids feel welcome, while two other Big Names did, you should try harder'), while the 2013 writer was over their shit.

Ah ok, that covers everything. Nevermind that she couldn't be direct about it to Watson all those years and she had to bring it up to a separate person. :roll:

[Guest]

Why am I arguing, really? I forgot that excuses are always made when it comes to anything anti-Watson.

Had this shit happened to someone from the dark places, we would be reading a different story.

[LurkerPerson]

Yeah, because directly criticizing Watson always ends so well. She's such a reasonable person, obviously she would take the criticism to heart, or calmly explain her side of the story. Wouldn't be any manufactured outrage and self-victimization, nope, that's totally not her modus operandi.

[LurkerPerson]

In any case, the "deep rifts" have been around long enough that either "side" will most likely take at face value anything that puts the other "side" in a bad light. Considering my own personal experience of both the pit and aplusers, I know which side has a tendency to exagerate and obfuscate by playing victim rather more than the other.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I found the Caine "I am one stepped-on-toe away from mass murder" thing pretty shocking. But this comment on PZ Meyers's blog is, I think, absolutely disgusting. They call the 'Pit out for using nasty words, like 'cunt', and then they go and make fucking bizarre, creepy comments like this.

So, Meyers has a post about Ray Comfort; you know, one of the usual hard targets he goes in for, like an atheist Chuck Norris. Comfort apparently is going to be on a Uni campus, and Meyers is requesting people to descend upon the campus to argue with the creationist. This commenter has a fear of being filmed by the Comforter. Why?
http://i.imgur.com/wRNaVHH.png

Now, what kind of sick fucking freak, when tasked to imagine something Ray Comfort would or could edit them to appear to say, comes up with "Eleven year old pussies taste the best"?

Fuck me, these people are fucking psycopathic monsters.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-692485

[rayshul]

I think once the foetus is term/viable, the focus should be on removing the foetus live rather than terminating it - so the pregnancy can be ended as demanded and ASAP, if that's a possibility. I'm not sure removing it is going to be more traumatic than an abortion at that stage ... but someone else can prove me wrong here. My Caesar took about five minutes, in and out, and I could have had it done with a general anaesthetic and woken up to know nothing.

Also pregnancy is fucked up, y'all. I can't see it as anything but a form of torture for someone who doesn't want it. If people are scared of pregnancy you motherfucking should be. My first pregnancy was "good" but I spent a year afterwards crippled and unable to move my hands due to my joints getting all hypermobile. (So I never actually got to pick up my son until he was one.) Second one was some badass bullshittery, let me tell you. I spent a fair part of my last pregnancy vomiting blood. Piles and piles of blood. Good times.

Babies are adorable though.

I am a woman, and I have absolutely no problem with women being treated as eye candy in games. Or movies. Or magazines. Or on the internet.

It's possible to find someone attractive without like, cruelly objectifying them. WTF is wrong with simply appreciating beauty? And for many people, beauty = a hot chick.

You're awesome. :)

[rayshul]

Is Francisco the same bugger who was talking about putting gang signals on people's houses so they get killed?

[ERV]

It looks like the exact same incident, but the 2011 writer was trying to be diplomatic with Skepchicks ('you all didnt make sky kids feel welcome, while two other Big Names did, you should try harder'), while the 2013 writer was over their shit.

Ah ok, that covers everything. Nevermind that she couldn't be direct about it to Watson all those years and she had to bring it up to a separate person. :roll:

If I was friends with someone, or, wanted to be friends with someone, and they did something that pissed me off, I would try to be diplomatic about it.

For example, I fucking hate my partners brothers/sisters. I find them unbearably frustrating, and I dont need that shit right now.

But for the sake of my partner, I try to be as diplomatic as possible.

Lets pretend that Siblings stole like, a million dollars from their mom, or something, and my partner totally wanted to cut ties with Siblings. I would no longer hold my frustrations back.

Saying that one person emailed Skepchicks directly and was more diplomatic about the incident than they are today doesnt make Mayhew a liar (nor does it address the other emails Mayhew posted).

[16bitheretic]

Is Francisco the same bugger who was talking about putting gang signals on people's houses so they get killed?

Yes and no, he offered to track down Ophelia Benson's critics in the Texas region. He didn;t specifically say for violence, just to paint butterflies on their property. 'Cuz that totally wouldn't be implied threats, yo!

That incident inspired one of my previous photshops:
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u58 ... 078835.png

[bovarchist]

I found the Caine "I am one stepped-on-toe away from mass murder" thing pretty shocking. But this comment on PZ Meyers's blog is, I think, absolutely disgusting. They call the 'Pit out for using nasty words, like 'cunt', and then they go and make fucking bizarre, creepy comments like this.

So, Meyers has a post about Ray Comfort; you know, one of the usual hard targets he goes in for, like an atheist Chuck Norris. Comfort apparently is going to be on a Uni campus, and Meyers is requesting people to descend upon the campus to argue with the creationist. This commenter has a fear of being filmed by the Comforter. Why?
http://i.imgur.com/wRNaVHH.png

Now, what kind of sick fucking freak, when tasked to imagine something Ray Comfort would or could edit them to appear to say, comes up with "Eleven year old pussies taste the best"?

Fuck me, these people are fucking psycopathic monsters.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-692485

You know the best thing about eleven year old pussies, right? Yup, there's eleven of them.

[uberfeminist]

Anybody know what this is all about?

Unfortunately, YES!

It's a bit of a long story!

http://uberfeminist.blogspot.com/2013/0 ... sarah.html

If you read it all, you'll have only a bit of an idea of how crazy the entire situation was.

What a train wreck.

[Guest]

Saying that one person emailed Skepchicks directly and was more diplomatic about the incident than they are today doesnt make Mayhew a liar (nor does it address the other emails Mayhew posted).

It doesn't make Mayhew a liar, it makes the other woman someone who apparently can't communicate well and whose kind we've seen TOO MUCH during the DEEPRIFTS.

As for the veracity of the other emails, considering how this one turned out, I don't have high hopes.

But you know, whatever we can hang onto.

I already know Watson is an asshole -> these emails that portray her as an asshole are fine.
I already know Shermer is a sleaze -> these anonymous accounts that portray him as a sleaze are fine.

[deLurch]

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she?

Because she doesn't have the skill, knowledge or talent to do such a thing. And she didn't even say that she would do such a thing. All she promised were her videos. I'm all for taking her to task where she has erred. But she never promised to make a game with the money.

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

[deLurch]

Damion Reinhardt is making myths:

Recently, the SlymePit-originated meme (likely never intended as a factual claim) that PZ Myers harassed a woman onstage at Skepticon III has gone viral and infected the broader internet as an unqualified truth-claim

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... arassment/
(haven't read it yet, just recognize the claim due to prior twitter exchange)

I am extremely happy that Damion included the referenced clip. I would be surprised if most of the pit did not want other people to see that clip when that make such references.

All I want to know, is what would happen if Ron Lindsay or Justin Vacula had done the same bit.

[Parody Accountant]

Saying that one person emailed Skepchicks directly and was more diplomatic about the incident than they are today doesnt make Mayhew a liar (nor does it address the other emails Mayhew posted).

It doesn't make Mayhew a liar, it makes the other woman someone who apparently can't communicate well and whose kind we've seen TOO MUCH during the DEEPRIFTS.

As for the veracity of the other emails, considering how this one turned out, I don't have high hopes.

But you know, whatever we can hang onto.

I already know Watson is an asshole -> these emails that portray her as an asshole are fine.
I already know Shermer is a sleaze -> these anonymous accounts that portray him as a sleaze are fine.

hi
http://i.imgur.com/mWxhxAT.png
oolon!
http://i.imgur.com/zD3aKMH.png

[JackRayner]

Is Francisco the same bugger who was talking about putting gang signals on people's houses so they get killed?

Yes and no, he offered to track down Ophelia Benson's critics in the Texas region. He didn;t specifically say for violence, just to paint butterflies on their property. 'Cuz that totally wouldn't be implied threats, yo!

That incident inspired one of my previous photshops:
http://i1322.photobucket.com/albums/u58 ... 078835.png

Am I a biased fuck if I make some assumptions about what the "message" being sent would be?

[clownshoe]

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she?

Because she doesn't have the skill, knowledge or talent to do such a thing. And she didn't even say that she would do such a thing. All she promised were her videos. I'm all for taking her to task where she has erred. But she never promised to make a game with the money.

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

EA doing the Faux-fem equivalent of Green Washing.
Hopefully she gets full design and editorial control. :lol:
How do your investors like that idea EA?

[Guest]

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she?

Because she doesn't have the skill, knowledge or talent to do such a thing. And she didn't even say that she would do such a thing. All she promised were her videos. I'm all for taking her to task where she has erred. But she never promised to make a game with the money.

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

Nevertheless it was an enormously lost opportunity.

Instead of having stretch goals of making 12 videos when 1 - 3 would do, she could easily have turned that $160,000 into:

a) stipends / pay for 16 game specs
b) contest for game designers
c) angel money for game development

This would have had the effect of showing what feminist games without these abused tropes would look like, as well as helping jumpstart the industry, and would likely be far more productive than just producing more videos.

Um, it was such an obvious opportunity too, in answering the question "$160,000 we only asked for $5,000 what do we do now" that I find it reasonable to "take her to task" for it.

I would do the same if any dumbshit took $160,000 and blew it on videos for mens rights as opposed to organizing a rally, or what have you.

[DW Adams]

Damion Reinhardt is making myths:

Recently, the SlymePit-originated meme (likely never intended as a factual claim) that PZ Myers harassed a woman onstage at Skepticon III has gone viral and infected the broader internet as an unqualified truth-claim

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... arassment/
(haven't read it yet, just recognize the claim due to prior twitter exchange)

His comment links to this comment by Dick Strawkins

Was PZ Myers accused of sexual harrassment at Skepticon 3?

You could say that Rebecca Watson was just joking, but that's hardly likely is it?
She would never laugh about something as serious as sexual harrassment of women at a skeptics conference.

Would she?

Well of course not!. What was I thinking! :naughty:

But wouldn't that mean she is accusing PZ Myers of being a sexual predator at conferences?
:think:

Trigger Warning!
[youtube]BcFH1ObcdOY[/youtube]

Yeah, I brought this up 4 days ago after seeing his tweet. You can see some of our exchange if you follow my Twitter link below. (If not, I'll screenshot the related posts)

[acathode]

BillHamp said:

If there is a problem with how private companies make games sold to private individuals, the answer is not a kickstarter campaign to complain about it. The answer is to produce your own video game that will be a marketing success and change the industry.

Wow. If you think the days still exist where even a unique and extremely talented and experienced individual could actually create and successfully produce a video game still exist, I want whatever drugs you're using; they must be fun.

Game production is a highly formulaic, extremely expensive corporate venture. The days of a handful of talented kids sitting in their basement producing qualty material are long, long gone.

In that sense, the video game industry is precisely like the music industry: individual skill and talent are meaningless, utterly meaningless. It is a corporate machine now.

Actually, the days of a handful of talented kids sitting in their basement producing quality material are coming back strong.

Those days aren't coming back... because they never went away.
Sure, it's so easy to prove that John Greg is talking out his ass by just pointing to how Minecraft, developed almost entirely by one guy alone, last year made $90 million as pure profit, and on top of that have created a whole new genre of "survive and build stuff" games.

However, even looking at the time before Minecraft and the indie boom, the "handful of kids in a basement" has always been one of the most important forces in games, constantly innovating while the big giants mostly want to invest in safe returns. Counterstrike started as a Half-Life mod made by a two students, become one of the most played fpses ever, a huge esport, and influenced tons of future fps games.

MOBA games like LoL and DotA2 are huge today, they are among the biggest PC games atm, and completely dominate the esport scene. Yet the whole MOBA genre was created not that long ago, by a handful of "kids in the basement" who played around with the map-editor for Warcraft 3 and created their own custom map "Defenders of the Ancient". Many of those kids are today working with developing LoL and DotA2. Oh, and speaking of custom maps and new genres, the tower defense maps for starcraft and warcraft also kicked of a new genre, again something created by some "kids in the basement".

Sure, these people might not be earning as much as Notch of Minecraft, but they sure as hell are some of the world's most influential game designers, and they sure as hell produced some quality stuff in their basements. Yeah gaming have become "big business" and AAA titles costs tons to produce now, but there's ALWAYS been "kids in the basement" and small studios with innovative visions and a ton of talent, that have managed to pump out quality stuff.

[JackRayner]

Feminist Frequency's Sarkeesian an opportunistic con-artist?
[youtube]gcPIu3sDkEw[/youtube]

Interesting ....
[.img]http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... mpsons.gif[/img]

Although, I would be happier if I could see her video in broader context. I can't really trust short quote with lots of edits.

Wish granted!

You can view the source video here. The relevant part begins a little after 12:20, but feel free to watch the whole thing to see if you can find anything else that she says that would somehow invalidate her stating outright that A] she isn't a fan of videogames and had to do a lot of research just to put that little music video together, and B] that she'd love to play videogames but won't 'cause she doesn't like gore and violence [a statement which much can be inferred from, mostly ignorance].

If you want to skip past the music video, 14:27 is when it stops and she resumes. I found part 3 of this set of videos to see if she says more, but she seems to move on at this point.

Anyways, as y'all can see, nothing was taken out of context in that fellow's youtube video. In fact, most of the cuts are found in the original, and if those cuts and the context that it puts her words into are things that Anita Sarkeesian disagrees with, I find it strange that she herself would like the video. :D

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... dd5a5a.png

[Again, this doesn't refute any of the "arguments" that she's put forward, but it re-establishes that she has no problem lying her ass off to the public and to the media...]

[DownThunder]

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she?

Because she doesn't have the skill, knowledge or talent to do such a thing. And she didn't even say that she would do such a thing. All she promised were her videos. I'm all for taking her to task where she has erred. But she never promised to make a game with the money.

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

She doesn't even have to have the coding knowledge, there is always fledgling coding houses / organisations looking for work. Sarkessian could look over all the artwork and plot and have it the way she wants. Even a small game.

But no, she won't even do that. I cant remember hearing or reading a feminist say "so girls, you want to be a great (insert role here), well then you need to work your butt off in (relevant skills and concepts)" No, instead the narrative is theres always some barrier, and if they are just removed then women will populate something by magic. Not surprisingly they alienate the very people that could tutor them on the process required to reach a goal or goals.

[acathode]

The fact is Sarkessian had 160 grand fall into her lap. There are countless indie programmers out there that could have turned out a significant piece of work with much less than that. The bravest and most respect-worthy thing Sarkessian could have done is produced a role model game for others to emulate. Why didn't she?

Because she doesn't have the skill, knowledge or talent to do such a thing. And she didn't even say that she would do such a thing. All she promised were her videos. I'm all for taking her to task where she has erred. But she never promised to make a game with the money.

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

She doesn't even have to have the coding knowledge, there is always fledgling coding houses / organisations looking for work. Sarkessian could look over all the artwork and plot and have it the way she wants. Even a small game.

But no, she won't even do that. I cant remember hearing or reading a feminist say "so girls, you want to be a great (insert role here), well then you need to work your butt off in (relevant skills and concepts)" No, instead the narrative is theres always some barrier, and if they are just removed then women will populate something by magic. Not surprisingly they alienate the very people that could tutor them on the process required to reach a goal or goals.

Actually, if she'd taken her kickstarter money and used it to develop a game instead of the things her kickstarter lists, I'm fairly sure she'd be committing fraud. So I really wouldn't critizize her for delivering the product she sold.

However, criticizing her for simply latching on as a parasite on the gaming industry, while trying to shove her ideals down our throats and trying to dictate how all games should be designed to cater to her taste, almost only complaining, never pointing to good examples... that I see no problem with. She's to the gaming industry what R. Watson is to the A/S community - a fake, dishonest media manipulator that thrives on attention and drama, that really aren't out to fix any problem but rather further their own "careers".

[Southern]

Everybody is ignoring the most positive result of all these abortions. Less children, that's got to be a good thing. Horrible little fuckers.

I do agree, comrade. Those pwecious little fuckers, the less of them around me, the better.

[Guest]

Actually, if she'd taken her kickstarter money and used it to develop a game instead of the things her kickstarter lists, I'm fairly sure she'd be committing fraud. So I really wouldn't critizize her for delivering the product she sold.

I have zero knowledge and you may be correct, but I don't think so.

First is the question of what she owed her backers:

https://nerdy.quora.com/A-Misunderstand ... ickstarter

Basically, 5 videos, possibly 12 videos depending on when she updated her kickstarter to add them and when people funded them.

Second though is her goal was $6,000 she received $160,000.

If she can't deliver the pre-products she does have the opportunity to refund money via paypal.

Well, given that she got the $160,000 because of feminist buzz and internet attention to show those mofo mras that were harassing her, my guess is she could have responded with a letter that said:

Dear supporters,

Wow did we do great. We now have $160,000 to create our videos. Originally we asked for a budget of $6,000 and hoped for funding of $20,000.

Here is what I would like to do.

With your permission, I am going to use $35,000 to make those 5 videos, with the highest of production values, and then we plan on using the next $125,000 to fund the specs and development for 5 Feminist Frequency sponsored video games. We plan to send each backer discounts for each of these video games.

If you agree with our plan, relax, do nothing.
If you disagree, please contact us, and at your request, we can refund your contribution. We will still include you on our list of supporters if you would like.

If more than 20% of the community disagrees with us within the next two weeks, we will fall back to our original plan and make the best damned videos the feminist world has seen.

My totally pulled out of the ass guess is that the above would have gone over like gangbusters with everyone.

Now you can critique this and say, she doesn't have to do a damn thing you want her to do, or do it the way you prescribe, AND YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

My point though is that given the context of her project I think it would have been easy and trivial and obvious to legally fulfill her obligations while sponsoring the creation of video games while keeping her community ecstatic.

So my second point is, yes, I think she let a terrific opportunity for herself, gaming, and feminist slip by.

[Skep tickle]

With 3 days left:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/micha ... legal-fund

$8064 raised, 183 funders (or, more accurately, 183 donations; the funders may not all be unique), last donation was 5 hrs ago.

(meanwhile the "Send A+ to Skepticon" is still sitting at $290 from the 6 donations it received 27 days ago when it opened; but there's still 14 days left! Go, A+, go!)

[Southern]

So, I finally got to the end of the posts, and it's all discussions about abortion, good topic, always a relevant one, the discussion has some nice arguments, yomomma has a different opinion on the subject, that's always a plus...

And oh fuck Anita Sarkeesian again?! What, is this mono-eyebrowed bitch is still relevant? Peezus Christ. Let her enjoy her ill-gotten hundred thousands bucks, but please! She has nothing interesting to say, as she proved with her "idea" of an "ideal" videogame about a fucking princess that is captured and then escapes from prision and then assassinates everybody and then abolishes monarchy or something, which I'm pretty sure either is a collection of cliches from other games, or was already done verbatim in some other game.

She's a hack whose one talent is turning Youtube trolling into huge amounts of cache. Maybe it seems pretty impressive, but she done it just once; Becky Twatson is doing this for years now, and I'll stick with the pro, thank you very much.

[TheMan]

Anita is generating the discussion she desired.

Women in Distress tropes in video games reminds me of a time I was Greek Island hopping and in a seedy bar on Santorini the bar tender wanted to educate me on a few wise greek saying. Amongst some delightful musings was this one in reference to Helen of Troy.... he said (imagine a strong greek accent) " One womans vagina hair is stronger than a whole army".

Women in distress that need rescuing tropes go back a fair way it seems...which made me realise that these tropes in video games; the power to initiate action from men all need to start with the woman. I don't see this as a sexist trope if in these cases woman have this sort of power. What would be sexist to me is if you had the option in the game to slink of into a bar, pick up chicks, play dice and put the rescue off till you won enough game cash to pay someone else to do the rescue for you. Wouldn't make an as adventourous game but it's not like game designers make the men to be these slackers who don't care.

[James Caruthers]

Everybody is ignoring the most positive result of all these abortions. Less children, that's got to be a good thing. Horrible little fuckers.

I do agree, comrade. Those pwecious little fuckers, the less of them around me, the better.

One of my favorite Carlin rants was about the problem we have with child worship in this country.
[youtube]h6wOt2iXdc4[/youtube]

[Trophy]

Although, I would be happier if I could see her video in broader context. I can't really trust short quote with lots of edits.

Wish granted!

You can view the source video here. The relevant part begins a little after 12:20, but feel free to watch the whole thing to see if you can find anything else that she says that would somehow invalidate her stating outright that A] she isn't a fan of videogames and had to do a lot of research just to put that little music video together, and B] that she'd love to play videogames but won't 'cause she doesn't like gore and violence [a statement which much can be inferred from, mostly ignorance].

Thanks. Yeah, that settles it. What a lying asshole.

If you want to skip past the music video...

Hell no. I listened to "Too many dicks" probably 20 times yesterday. 10 more today won't hurt.

Regarding the "flight of conchords" she says (at 14:30):
"I didn't know the flight of the conchords ... and then I saw them being serious and I was like "wow, that's really offensive"." Flight of conchords is serious now? WTF?

And finally, her attitude towards men and women is quite stupid and sexist. "Tomb Raider is just like a man because she likes guns and shooting stuff". All right, I'm completely done with her. She had her chance, I listened to her and in fact sometimes she made sense (there are very few people who never make sense, like that poor chap Ray Comfort) but now she's just intolerable.

[John Greg]

OK, OK, I must curmodgeonly admit defeat. There have, apparently, been some games, other than just crackerjack boxes paint-by-numbers tiddly-winkers, right?, made and published, successfully, over the last few years.

Now, as I've never heard of them (except Minecraft, which like one other commenter, I too do not give a tinker's fart for), could someone PM me some links to them, please and thank you.

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

[JackRayner]

If you want to skip past the music video...

Hell no. I listened to "Too many dicks" probably 20 times yesterday. 10 more today won't hurt.

:lol: Well, everyone's got their own tastes, I suppose. There's music I listen to that I'm pretty sure most people would think is torture, and I wouldn't subject anyone to it...


Except for my girl. But that's payback, because she subjects me to songs I hate from the likes of Drake or Lil' Wayne on a regular basis. I fucking hate Lil' Wayne....

[Trophy]

OK, OK, I must curmodgeonly admit defeat. There have, apparently, been some games, other than just crackerjack boxes paint-by-numbers tiddly-winkers, right?, made and published, successfully, over the last few years.

Now, as I've never heard of them (except Minecraft, which like one other commenter, I too do not give a tinker's fart for), could someone PM me some links to them, please and thank you.

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

Try to watch "Indie Game: The Movie" which is a documentary on independent game developers. While it is true that a single person cannot create a game like "The last of us" with all that voice acting, cinematic effects, etc. etc., they can instead write very creative, thoughtful, and norm-breaking games.

[Pitchguest]

OK, OK, I must curmodgeonly admit defeat. There have, apparently, been some games, other than just crackerjack boxes paint-by-numbers tiddly-winkers, right?, made and published, successfully, over the last few years.

Now, as I've never heard of them (except Minecraft, which like one other commenter, I too do not give a tinker's fart for), could someone PM me some links to them, please and thank you.

However, I still maintain, until proved otherwise, that really sophisticated, visually brilliant games like Fallout 3, Skyrim, and the like cannot be done by some geek in a bathrobe in a basement in the suburbs.

Super Meat Boy

Braid

Fez

Limbo

Amnesia The Dark Descent

Machinarium

Legend of Grimrock

Natural Selection

etc etc etc

There's the Humble Indie Bundle that has included several successful indie games.

The indie game company Wadjet Eye Games which has developed and published several good indie adventure game titles. (Which might mean they have a slightly higher budget, but I bet you they would be thrilled to have nearly $160,000 as a starter.)

[Dick Strawkins]

I've posted a reply to Damions post on Skeptic Ink in which he used a comment by me as the basis for another anti slymepit article.

He's holding it up in moderation so I'll paste it here in case he doesn't allow it through.

I am a little curious here Damion.

Your evidence that this was a "Slymepit-originated meme" is a link to a comment of mine on the 7th of December.

But my comment is about an entirely different incident from the one described in the rest of your post!

In that comment I linked to a section of the youtube video of Rebecca Watson's Skepticon 3 talk where she mentioned PZ Myers behavior.



But Rebecca is NOT talking about the incident with the woman on stage during PZs talk.

She is talking about PZ in a social setting.

Here are the words she says on the video.

"At each of these conferences I always pick up one really interesting facts (sic) that I learn, and at this conference its definitely been 'never play poker with PZ Myers'.

Because if you win, he tries to impregnate you. If you lose...ditto."

The video is important because it makes it entirely obvious that she is making a joke - and the audience takes it as such and laughs along. Leaving out the video would make the words ambiguous (especially if you are not familiar with Watson or Myers.)

But, if we can agree that this was a joke, can we also try to agree what was the target of the joke? What was the funny part?

To me it seems that the humor is based on the idea that PZ in real life is not a sexual predator - but the joke suggests he is. Everybody at Skepticon knows he is not, so suggesting he is constantly trying to impregnate women is taken as being a funny image.

It is the juxtaposition of this imaginary predatory PZ against the public, harmless teddybear PZ that provokes the laughs.

But in order to create this juxtoposition, don't you need to play around with the idea of the sexual predator PZ, harassing female poker partners for sex?

And when exactly is it appropriate or inappropriate to make jokes about sexual predators?

Rebecca's joke was, at the very least, making light of the idea that certain men can be sexual predators/harassers.

My comment was, I hoped, meant to be read as a sarcastic dig at Rebecca's use of such humor.

Here is my comment, linked by Damion.

"Was PZ Myers accused of sexual harrassment at Skepticon 3?
You could say that Rebecca Watson was just joking, but that's hardly likely is it?
She would never laugh about something as serious as sexual harrassment of women at a skeptics conference.
Would she?
Well of course not!. What was I thinking!
But wouldn't that mean she is accusing PZ Myers of being a sexual predator at conferences?"

As you can see, my comment had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident involving PZ and the women volunteer from the audience.

Despite this I find myself publicly accused by Damion of spreading lies about PZ Myers behavior on stage, with the only evidence offered being the above comment about an entirely different incident!

I, however, will not accuse Damion of telling lies about me.

Perhaps Damion made a mistake here.

He shows no sign of having read my words in context with the youtube clip linked.

But anyone can make a mistake.

It is no shame to admit you have made a mistake (indeed even I occasionally make mistakes ;) )

The important point is how you respond to these mistakes when they are pointed out.

[deLurch]

But for laughs, evidently EA has determined that she will be working on the next Mirror game with Dice.

EA doing the Faux-fem equivalent of Green Washing.
Hopefully she gets full design and editorial control. :lol:
How do your investors like that idea EA?[/quote]
Either this is a brilliant PR move that will bring in the big bucks for the next game... "how much do you want to bet that Anita will roll over and play dead like a good little bitch if the price is right?"

Or, if she has become her own true believer, she is bound to fuck them both over at the same time. In which case this will be a monumental PR blunder in the waiting.

[Gefan]

To resurrect the abortion topic for a moment (and endure the barrage of abuse that act probably deserves) for several years in the 1990s I volunteered an independent Women's Health Clinic and, after that closed down, at Planned Parenthood.
The experience raised a number of questions for me. One of the foremost was, what are the two sides of the "debate" (it's long since ceased to be an actual debate) really after?
I don't think too many pro-choice advocates would argue with the proposition that they are defending the bodily autonomy of women, preventing them from having to be forced to carry a pregnancy to term .
The pro-lifers might well summarize their objective as the defense of the life of the fetus.
Now, suppose someone were to develop a medical procedure where the fetus is removed from the mother and then kept alive until it can be brought to term in a surrogate or an artificial incubator.
In theory, everybody's happy, right?

Mmmmm, probably not.

Such a development would pretty much unmask what I'm convinced is the pro-lifer's actual motivation, namely a deep-seated aversion to the de-coupling of sex from reproduction.
The part I never could figure out is how the pro-choice side would react. I don't know if they'd regard it as the perfect solution or if there's something else that motivates them too. For some of them, based in part on the people I got to know during my time as a volunteer, I think there is indeed something else going on, but I don't know what it is.

Anyway, after that admission of Planned Parenthood volunteerism I need to go re-build my misogynist cred.
Back to the lab.