HOLY TURD SLURPEE.Dick Strawkins wrote::D :D :lol: :lol:
Peezus has just embraced post-modernism!
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... sm-please/
The transformation is complete!
Grothe was one of the first witchesdeLurch wrote:Oh, I so can't believe it.Dick Strawkins wrote:Believe it or not there is another Skepchick drama brewing.
I can't keep up with the list of characters. Was he not part of their in-crowd, or are they cannibalizing their own again?Dick Strawkins wrote:Apparently they are up in arms about DJ Grothe who claims he was libeled by Sasha Pixee, a hipster neckbeard who claims that DJ Grothe made a rape threat to him - or a rape joke (I couldn't really tell from his tears of rage stained post about the topic)
Unfortunately for the pixee it turns out that the occasion he claims DJ made the remark happened to be when various other people were in attendance who have now come forward to say the Pixee is lying.
http://www.freezepage.com/1378840913NBQRSDXDTH
James Caruthers wrote:http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... sm-please/
Being reminded of the limitations of language, our senses and the ways our brains work to deceive us is perfectly reasonable. In fact, the dreaded EVOPSYCH has some points along those same lines. But oh, evopsych is evil, can't allow that it might be right. Dennett has advanced a number of PoMo-sounding ideas about how our brains work to manage information. The priority of the brain is not to find "truth" or locate ultimate reality, it is to reduce raw data into manageable chunks, with the bias of "things that will allow the organism to survive and thrive."
So when Neitzsche says "language is lying," I have no problem with that. It's just another imperfect system. But we have to realize the importance of working within imperfect systems, because the alternatives tend to be much stupider. Dicks like PZ want to use PoMo as a stick to beat anyone who uses logic or skepticism. They want to use PoMo as a tool to encourage the abandonment of skeptical inquiry and the adoption of "always believe whatever someone says if they have proper victimhood credentials in our in-group."
Postmodern tribalism is not a superior option to scientific rationalism, no matter the occasional failings or slight hubris of some rationalists. We can take good ideas from every philosophy while discarding the nonsense. On an unrelated note, I'm a writer by calling and postmodernism is home to some of the shittiest writers I've had the misfortune to read. The entire field seems to call the imminently unqualified to it with the siren's song of undeserved fame.
My dad has one of those. It's his third. He spoils them all shamelessly. Too bad they're only good for a dozen or so years.Guestus Aurelius wrote:Fuck you.Tribble wrote: Yeah, I was writing in a "I share your worldview as I understand your world view" POV. I should have been clearer to that as the Internet is almost always a battle ground and people get edgy.
My folks have a dog named Tribble, by the way. Looks a lot like this one:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KY_uh8f6WQs/S ... %3D-785372
A real snoutless motherfucker. I thought Ewok was a more appropriate name—and really, how can a fixed animal be a tribble?—but I think they were going for the whole ball-of-fluff thing.
Sorry, PZ, but that is precisely the point. Science is NOT answerable to public interest. Science is about the truth, not about making people feel good and not about improving the world. It is true, that science is the single greatest force in improving the human condition, but that is not because it attempts to, that is because it seeks to understand and to understand accurately what makes the universe tick.Science has to be answerable to public interest, and the goals of scientists (and atheists!) should include progressive values. We live to make a better world, right? So why should we not respect and appreciate a critical analysis of the social context of what we do?
Again, no. You are confusing science, which is the pursuit of truth, with a philosophy of moral standards. They are not one in the same and to import subjectivity into science is to destroy it completely. No wonder you at UMM, you're an idiot of the worst kind, prone to follow any philosophy that makes you fell good, regardless of how accurate it is or how ground. Your view is so arrogantly egocentric as to demonstrate exactly why such things out to be ketp well and clear of science.What a fool you are PZ, that is why no one takes you seriously.I’ll also extend the deal and say that we are obligated to pursue a humanist agenda ourselves — that simply accumulating deeper understanding of the universe without consideration of our place in it is ultimately destructive. I’m reminded of my late genetics mentor, George Streisinger, who considered ethical issues as important as the science, and spoke out in the 1980s about what were the important concerns.
Sasha wrote:I have wanted to talk about something for years and I think maybe now is the right time to talk about it. I want to show my support for both Karen Stollznow* and Carrie Poppy by sharing my own rather unpleasant experiences with DJ Grothe. I want to show that their experiences are not isolated incidents. They are part of a larger picture and are important.
It’s sort of known among certain people in the skepticoatheirationalist sphere that DJ Grothe is not terribly fond of me. Back in 2011 I contacted the speakers at that year’s TAM and asked them to consider including a mention of the importance of diversity and equality within our communities. Mr. Grothe (and some of the speakers) were not pleased by this. I think that is possibly when he started to dislike me and believe (erroneously) that I wanted to destroy the JREF.
I actually first met DJ Grothe about a year before at Dragon*Con in 2010. I had admired his work on Point of Inquiry and when he became president of the JREF I thought it would be a great thing. When I got a chance to meet him that year I was excited. We encountered one another at a Skepchick party (one that had to be moved to the lobby because of noise complaints as soon as it started). He was drunk, but it was a social occasion and I’d had a couple cocktails as well. No big deal. I was fairly surprised though, when DJ turned to me and said that the reason everyone loved the Skepchicks was because they “want pussyâ€. That seemed to be a rather dismissive and insultingly sexist way to dismiss the work of your professional colleagues (not to mention the people whose booze you were at that moment drinking.
I’m embarrassed to say that at the time I was still a bit fame-struck and too shocked to really process it. I didn’t do what I should have done, and told him how rude, insulting, and unprofessional it was to say something like that, even while drunk. Even in a casual social setting. But then it got more bizarre and incredible. I’m a tall guy, chubby (fat, honestly) and bearded. If I were gay I would definitely be a bear. This was discussed and DJ then made an hilarious horrendous “joke†about how I should pay him a visit down in Los Angeles so that he could drug me and let some of his friends have some fun with me. You know, in other words so that I could be gang raped.
I never felt like he was serious when he made that joke about having me raped. I never felt like I was in actual danger. I am a straight cis man. I’m not as likely to have to worry about those things as someone else. I know he was drunk. I also know that those two stories from the night I met DJ Grothe have put into context every unprofessional, sneaky, sexist, callous, victim-blaming, self serving, and morally ambiguous thing I’ve seen him do since. Whenever I read or hear someone hopeful for something approaching sensitivity or progress on issues of sexism, sexual harassment, or even assault coming out of Mr. Grothe’s JREF, I just think of the first time I met him and wait for the inevitable horrendous actions that will follow.
LOL WHAT?Elyse wrote:Earlier this year, I reluctantly resigned from my position as the president of Women Thinking, inc (formerly the Women Thinking Free Foundation, an organization focused on science and critical thinking outreach for women and women’s issues) for health and personal reasons. This weekend, and all of yesterday and into today, I’ve been back in touch with the board, offering support and advice, as they struggled to find a solution to a problem: D.J. Grothe is shitty at jokes.
A few weeks ago, Sasha Pixlee wrote a blog post at More Than Men, a diversity education project he and I launched together as part of WTinc, about a time he was at a party with D.J. and D.J. made a terrible joke about date rape...
The Women Thinking partnered up with the JREF in December of 2010 to do vaccine outreach research as part of the Hug Me, I’m Vaccinated campaign. Since we were and are a small organization without the resources to take on such a project, we asked the JREF to fund it. They agreed, and gave us ~$5,000 to travel and conduct surveys around the country and for that, they would publish and promote the research for us. Now, almost three years later the research is finished. The report is complete thanks to a tireless effort by the WTinc board, especially Jamie Bernstein. The research has been delivered to the JREF and peer reviewed. Today, it is essentially ready to be published, and has been for over a year. But right now, Grothe is using a blog post about being bad at jokes as a reason to hold up publishing this work that we were planning on using to save lives.
From an email sent to the WTinc board:
[...]
Grothe doesn’t like that someone said something bad about him on the internet. And he’s shaking down a small organization that he knows cannot afford to defend themselves against a baseless lawsuit thrown at them by a man who thinks that being bad at jokes is going to stop him from ever becoming a parent and will stand in the way of him running the world renowned nonprofit organization that he’s already in charge of.
Because of Grothe’s threats, the past few days have been emotionally wrought for everyone. They’re scared. They’re angry. And they want this project they’ve been working on for almost three years to be published. They also want to stand firm to their commitment to feminism and the More Than Men Project. And right now, thanks to Grothe’s bullying, two of the four board members have resigned. The More Than Men Project has offered to leave WTinc to save them the hassle, but are worried about it looking like a less than amicable split.
It’s a mess. And I’m heartbroken to watch this happen to the organization I founded and resigned from out of love. I’m tired of higher ups in this movement using heavy hands and legal threats to shut down conversations about harassment and assault. I’m tired of being told that if I don’t like how things are happening in the movement to step up and change them, then getting shut down because I’m trying to change them. I’m tired of people being tired of “the drama.†“The drama†is tearing apart small organizations because your Big Deal Vatican of Skepticism organization doesn’t like everything the smaller organizations are doing.
And right now, the remaining board members are terrified of this going public because of what Grothe might do.
He can do 2 things:
1. Publish the research and stop threatening WTinc with legal action because he doesn’t like that someone said he’s bad at jokes.
2. Don’t publish the research and explain to JREF donors why he paid us $5,000 for a project that was completed but never delivered because he’s bad at jokes.
Or, you know, just get better at rape jokes.
Knowledge for knowledge's sake is 'destructive'! Wow, I honestly didn't think he'd go that far.PoMo-PZ wrote:I’ll also extend the deal and say that we are obligated to pursue a humanist agenda ourselves — that simply accumulating deeper understanding of the universe without consideration of our place in it is ultimately destructive.
:D142. Nick Gotts wrote: I’m off to bed*. I may or may not resume this tomorrow.
*This is, I assure you, objectively true. But I admit that my bed is a cultural construct – the frame was culturally constructed several decades ago, but my wife and I culturally reconstructed one of the boards that support the mattress, and culturally swapped the mattress for another, a few days ago.
My completely professional opinion, based on solid evidence* is that he's losing the plot. If he threw himself back into science instead of tilting at patriarchy windmills he'd probably have a clearer perspective on things.CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:Gefan, thank you for another video. Brilliant...and look, their providing more material all the time. Is their a next movie idea in the works, or am I being greedy?
Too much good analysis from so many to comment on...enjoying it very much. A question or two for those more knowledgeable and astute than myself...Is Peezus really trying to kill science to save it? Post modernism does not seem a good fit for a scientist, but excellent for a demagogue. Is this a conscious decision on his part to separate himself from the pack, as some have suggested, or is he simply trying to quell the cognitive dissonance that arises by his new brand of femi-faith clashing with the scientist? Or is he simply going batshit insane? Or a combination....? If he was facing a criminal trial instead of a civil one, I would guess he was firming up an insanity plea.
Same here.Cunning Punt wrote:Happy Birthday, Justin! :happy-partydance:
No they can't. Feminist call out culture has completely taken over.Brive1987 wrote:Why can't these people deal with 'non threatening' social situations off blog? I guess 'cause then you don't get to TEAR THE FUCKER down in public. Ok . Got it now.deLurch wrote:Oh, I so can't believe it.Dick Strawkins wrote:Believe it or not there is another Skepchick drama brewing.
I can't keep up with the list of characters. Was he not part of their in-crowd, or are they cannibalizing their own again?Dick Strawkins wrote:Apparently they are up in arms about DJ Grothe who claims he was libeled by Sasha Pixee, a hipster neckbeard who claims that DJ Grothe made a rape threat to him - or a rape joke (I couldn't really tell from his tears of rage stained post about the topic)
Unfortunately for the pixee it turns out that the occasion he claims DJ made the remark happened to be when various other people were in attendance who have now come forward to say the Pixee is lying.
http://www.freezepage.com/1378840913NBQRSDXDTH
Geez....did he really write that shit? I usually avoid reading from that shithole directly, but this post seems brilliantly moronic enough to make it interesting. :clap:BillHamp wrote:Regardless of PZ's views on post modernism, he has outed himself and both a sham of a scientist and a failure as a skeptic. He says...
Sorry, PZ, but that is precisely the point. Science is NOT answerable to public interest. Science is about the truth, not about making people feel good and not about improving the world. It is true, that science is the single greatest force in improving the human condition, but that is not because it attempts to, that is because it seeks to understand and to understand accurately what makes the universe tick.Science has to be answerable to public interest, and the goals of scientists (and atheists!) should include progressive values. We live to make a better world, right? So why should we not respect and appreciate a critical analysis of the social context of what we do?
Sciencd should not include any value except to always be free of bias. End of story asshat.
Again, no. You are confusing science, which is the pursuit of truth, with a philosophy of moral standards. They are not one in the same and to import subjectivity into science is to destroy it completely. No wonder you at UMM, you're an idiot of the worst kind, prone to follow any philosophy that makes you fell good, regardless of how accurate it is or how ground. Your view is so arrogantly egocentric as to demonstrate exactly why such things out to be kept well and clear of science.What a fool you are PZ, that is why no one takes you seriously.I’ll also extend the deal and say that we are obligated to pursue a humanist agenda ourselves — that simply accumulating deeper understanding of the universe without consideration of our place in it is ultimately destructive. I’m reminded of my late genetics mentor, George Streisinger, who considered ethical issues as important as the science, and spoke out in the 1980s about what were the important concerns.
I haven't read "Trendy Atheist" for a couple of years, but I must say that the comments there on that thread are pretty alarming. I'm OK with people questioning Dawkins statements, that's what rationalists and skeptics do, but every time the man makes a questionable comment, the mob attacks him as if he were Fred Phelps. Dawkins is a thoughtful man. If you point out a faux pas and make a good argument, most likely he will clarify or withdraw the comment if the criticism is valid. I grant them that Dawkins can be prickly. So what? He can still change his mind if something is pointed out to him. We have all seen it. What he doesn't react well to is pitchforks. Who does?Saint N. wrote:Hemant weighs in on the whole Dawkins defends mild pedophilia issue,
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... ents-okay/
FrankGrimes wrote:* The following tale of alien encounters is true. And by true, I mean false. It's all lies. But they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is: No.
We have a really mellow guy that looks like that pic only black. He turns 13 in Feb. What a well tempered beast. He has been pampered but is still well behaved. It's tough not to get attached to these little critters.Tribble wrote:My dad has one of those. It's his third. He spoils them all shamelessly. Too bad they're only good for a dozen or so years.Guestus Aurelius wrote:Fuck you.Tribble wrote: Yeah, I was writing in a "I share your worldview as I understand your world view" POV. I should have been clearer to that as the Internet is almost always a battle ground and people get edgy.
My folks have a dog named Tribble, by the way. Looks a lot like this one:
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KY_uh8f6WQs/S ... %3D-785372
A real snoutless motherfucker. I thought Ewok was a more appropriate name—and really, how can a fixed animal be a tribble?—but I think they were going for the whole ball-of-fluff thing.
Since she couldn't find Murder For Dummies.ianfc wrote:And Caine says she's looking for Post-Modernism for Dummies.
Nothing about having to serve progressive goals there...I have one secret I have shared with many scientists and very few have taken me up on it. When you read most science reports, what you find is when they try to make it accessible to the public is they try to emphasize how important it is. “This will lead to the cure for cancer!†or “This will solve the riddle of human origins!†You know, all that kind of stuff…
(interviewer:) Very sensationalized…
Yes! And usually false. I always tell them don’t do that. Just extirpate that word “important’ from your glossary. Don’t use “important.†I tell them the word you want to use, to connect with the public, is “beautiful.†Tell them how beautiful this research is. Then it becomes something that stands alone, you can then talk about it in the context of just what it is, how it fits with everything. Then you’re not suddenly saddled with this need to convince the reader that “Oh, this will change your life.†Because most times it won’t. And everyone wants to see something beautiful! Right? I think, just a fossil, is just a beautiful little artifact and you can get caught up in that.
That reminds me of a poem my dad used to recite. Perhaps you have heard it. it goes like this:Dornier Pfeil wrote:FrankGrimes wrote:* The following tale of alien encounters is true. And by true, I mean false. It's all lies. But they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is: No.
It's all true. Especially the lies. :popcorn:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ty-of-god/Fortunately, our idea has been incubating for a few centuries, and has involved multitudes of our civilization’s greatest minds.
It’s called science.
Science is our weapon, our god-killer. It’s the greatest tool humanity has ever invented — it’s taken us from a hodge-podge of bickering near-savages living in the mud and dying young of disease and childbirth and starvation and sword-pokes to a hodge-podge of bickering near-savages who sometimes walk on the moon, who sometimes cure diseases, who live twice as long as our predecessors, who can look deep into cells or far out to distant galaxies. It has given us great power to accomplish marvelous things or to screw up the whole planet.
Science also has the power to transform our sense of identity.
...
It turns out that if you’re disciplined and careful, if you reject ideas based on superstition, revelation, and tradition and actually require confirmable evidence for any suppositions about even mundane things, you find yourself on good stable ground, and are able to ask even deeper questions, and get answers. And before you know it, you find yourself in possession of a strong chain of evidence that leads you to answers about the fundamental nature of the universe. That’s real power.
...
Have you ever heard scientists argue, though? They do all the time. But they don’t resolve issues by appealing to higher authorities: they don’t usually argue that because Richard Dawkins said it, it’s settled.
Oh, much better, now he realizes that science doesn't back up his unquestioned beliefs, but forget about using science to find out what's true, you need to come to science with the right "values." Gee, I thought that aiming to do science right was the only "value" needed by scientists, but apparently that's tooScience has to be answerable to public interest, and the goals of scientists (and atheists!) should include progressive values.
Let's not sell Caine short! She may have written the book! It's probably a good idea to do akatamari Damassi wrote:Since she couldn't find Murder For Dummies.ianfc wrote:And Caine says she's looking for Post-Modernism for Dummies.
The prime thing is minor. The earth being billions of years old isn't an objective truth because we can't truly comprehend billions of years.KenD wrote:I wish I could convince myself that Anthony K's really a poe. He dismisses 17 being a prime number as an example objective truth, can't explain why because he's "no mathematician", and just gets sillier from there.Dick Strawkins wrote::D :D :lol: :lol:
Peezus has just embraced post-modernism!
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... sm-please/
The transformation is complete!
Even after all the baboonery, it still boggles my mind that there are really people in the atheist/skeptic community promoting post-modernism as a way to "check the rise of Dawkinsianism".
Holy shit, it gets dumber. That's not far from the far right view that the only science that is worth funding is basically applied science that gives us new toys NOW.BillHamp wrote:Regardless of PZ's views on post modernism, he has outed himself and both a sham of a scientist and a failure as a skeptic. He says...
Sorry, PZ, but that is precisely the point. Science is NOT answerable to public interest. Science is about the truth, not about making people feel good and not about improving the world. It is true, that science is the single greatest force in improving the human condition, but that is not because it attempts to, that is because it seeks to understand and to understand accurately what makes the universe tick.Science has to be answerable to public interest, and the goals of scientists (and atheists!) should include progressive values. We live to make a better world, right? So why should we not respect and appreciate a critical analysis of the social context of what we do?
Sciencd should not include any value except to always be free of bias. End of story asshat.
Mine was a quote from Leonard Nimoy in a Simpsons episode but that poem is great! Havn'e heard it since I was a kid. Thanks for reminding me. :)BillHamp wrote:That reminds me of a poem my dad used to recite. Perhaps you have heard it. it goes like this:Dornier Pfeil wrote:FrankGrimes wrote:* The following tale of alien encounters is true. And by true, I mean false. It's all lies. But they're entertaining lies. And in the end, isn't that the real truth? The answer is: No.
It's all true. Especially the lies. :popcorn:
Ladies and gentlemen, hobos and tramps, cross-eyed mosquitoes and bowlegged ant,
I come here before you to stand there behind you to tell you a story I know nothing about.
One dark night in the middle of day, two dead men came out to play.
Back to back they faced one another, drew their swords and shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard the noise and came to save the two dead boys.
If you believe these lies are true, just ask the blind man, he saw them too.
Now, I am sure there are many versions of this little poem, but I was reminded of it when I saw your words and those before yours. I never realized just how accurately this poem reflects on PZ, FtB, A+, etc. They are all about as coherent.
So spot on considering the Peoples Temple were social justice warriors at their start in California. Its not given much attention when people retell the story but that was Jones' starting point.Jan Steen wrote:Poor Peezus only wants to make "this movement better and healthier." Why is everyone trying to squelch his efforts?
<snip>
There is an easy way for Peezus to make this movement better and healthier. I hear Guyana is nice and warm at this time of the year. His Horde will enjoy life in Myerstown in the benevolent company of their Teacher. They can grow their own vegetables (how fast everything grows in the tropics!).The toilets will not be cis-binary. There will be no patriarchy and no rape culture. The only TV channel will show non-stop talks by Rebecca Watson, Jen McCreight and Amanda Marcotte. All children will learn to spell the word 'intersectionality' by the age of five. Best of all, the supply of Kool-Aid will be virtually unlimited. Every evening an angry rant by Peezus himself will thunder from all the loudspeakers throughout Myerstown. And every evening the rant will be slightly more paranoid and delusional, it is barely noticeable. The "assholes" have infiltrated the Movement. They are already in Myerstown, busy undermining the collective, trying to destroy the People's Temple of Pharyngology. There are too many assholes out there. It is hopeless. And one day the Kool-Aid will taste funny.
He got new marching orders fromwindy wrote:PZ Myers, last month:
http://skepchick.org/2013/08/science-an ... -pz-myers/
Nothing about having to serve progressive goals there...I have one secret I have shared with many scientists and very few have taken me up on it. When you read most science reports, what you find is when they try to make it accessible to the public is they try to emphasize how important it is. “This will lead to the cure for cancer!†or “This will solve the riddle of human origins!†You know, all that kind of stuff…
(interviewer:) Very sensationalized…
Yes! And usually false. I always tell them don’t do that. Just extirpate that word “important’ from your glossary. Don’t use “important.†I tell them the word you want to use, to connect with the public, is “beautiful.†Tell them how beautiful this research is. Then it becomes something that stands alone, you can then talk about it in the context of just what it is, how it fits with everything. Then you’re not suddenly saddled with this need to convince the reader that “Oh, this will change your life.†Because most times it won’t. And everyone wants to see something beautiful! Right? I think, just a fossil, is just a beautiful little artifact and you can get caught up in that.
The fellow Atheist who accuses me of moving the goal posts (when I am using the earliest recorded tale of Jesus to define a historical Jesus) while they are extracting all of the unbelievable bullshit from the story of Jesus to create a believable person. I would say Tu quoque.Steersman wrote:That kind of looks like it qualifies as “moving the goal postsâ€. You first apparently concede that it is plausible that “a preacher and mystic named Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilateâ€, yet turn around and insist that that “is not a complete description of Jesus of the bibleâ€. But that first part is apparently what most people, atheists at least, consider qualifies as a “historical Jesusâ€, not all of the “extra unbelievable†gingerbread tacked onto that entirely believable core.ccdimage wrote:I believe that Pythagoras was probably a real person and cult leader. I have some scepticism about the accuracy of stories like his hatred of beans. I believe he existed because even the strange bean hatred part of the story about him is actually plausible. The difference with Jesus is that the stories about him even if we only use the first parts of Mark are not plausible (healing things untreatable with modern medicine, commanding the weather, magic food creation, demon pigs...). Lets say I believe that a preacher and mystic named Jesus was crucified by Pontius Pilate. This is not a complete description of Jesus of the bible in the same way that a soldier in WW2 called Hogan was captured by the Nazis and held as a POW is not a complete description of the character in Hogan's Heroes. It is all of the extra unbelievable crap that appears in the earliest versions of Mark that makes the story of Jesus unbelievable and supports the idea that it is a made up tale.Steersman wrote: Nor of Faust, nor of any similar type of obviously fictional characters. But Jesus looks something of a different kettle of fish.
However, I wonder what minimal set of attributes you would think might qualify as a "historical Jesus". Something more than just a name presumably, since it is quite likely that there would have been any number of "Jesuses" in that time frame. How about a real human character named Jesus who was an intinerant preacher and mystic? Who was crucified? By Pontius Pilate? Where are you going to draw the line? Rejecting entirely plausible sets and subsets of attributes that could have been common at the time sort of gives the impression of special pleading.
<snip>
Numbers aren't the only part of the issue - believable attributes are, I think, some important other ones. A Hogan who turned an entire German prison camp into a pack of clowns hardly qualifies as believable reality. Not really comparing apples and oranges.
But all of that maybe highlights the fact that the term “historical Jesus†apparently means very different things to many different people. Sort of like “feminismâ€. Or “Christianityâ€. Or even “postmodernism†and “evolutionary psychologyâ€. When each of those terms cover a very broad range of aspects and attributes it kind of helps to clarify exactly what is meant by them. Nothing derails a conversation quicker than having and using very different definitions of key or central concepts.
So much wisdom to be had from the Simpsons. Just don't go out like old Grimey did!FrankGrimes wrote:
Mine was a quote from Leonard Nimoy in a Simpsons episode but that poem is great! Havn'e heard it since I was a kid. Thanks for reminding me. :)
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.â€Southern wrote:Sad is the life of the idiot who lives only through being the anti-someone else.Guestus Aurelius wrote:Why, one may ask, has PZ suddenly chosen to praise post-modernism? My hunch is that it allows him to further distance himself from Dawkins:
http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/824
I remember my Grandpa telling me that poem back in the late 60's.BillHamp wrote:
That reminds me of a poem my dad used to recite. Perhaps you have heard it. it goes like this:
Ladies and gentlemen, hobos and tramps, cross-eyed mosquitoes and bowlegged ant,
I come here before you to stand there behind you to tell you a story I know nothing about.
One dark night in the middle of day, two dead men came out to play.
Back to back they faced one another, drew their swords and shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard the noise and came to save the two dead boys.
If you believe these lies are true, just ask the blind man, he saw them too.
Now, I am sure there are many versions of this little poem, but I was reminded of it when I saw your words and those before yours. I never realized just how accurately this poem reflects on PZ, FtB, A+, etc. They are all about as coherent.
Even though the gang over time purified their ranks for SJW ideologies, they could only manage it by staying very 101. They needed an evil foil to place their good views against it, to farm sj points. Exactly as they needed a creationist foil before to farm ingroup science-creds. This is what those people are about.ianfc wrote:For an ignorant prick like me, the discussion around pzm's "Can we rehabilitate post-modernism, please." is quite interesting. Not as lockstep as I thought it would be, Nick Gotts is arguing the case for objective truth and I don't think Anthony K is entirely on board with pzm; yet.
I've touched on it before, but there's usually someone in the wings that understands what is going on, and it wouldn't surprise me if they started quietly sidelining the extreme members of FTB, because, lets face it, they've got absolutely ridiculous in the last month.Hemisphere wrote:Didn't PZ's fellow blogger Ophelia Benson write a book focused on mocking postmodernism? The Dictionary of Fashionable Nonsense?
I wonder how OB is going to take Myer's new-found faith in the religion that is postmodernism.
I can only imagine what my grandpa would have to say about the A+ers if he were still alive. He wasn't a perfect man, but I much admired him. He was paralyzed from the waist down at roughly 40 years of age and was told by his boss at the local steel mill that he would have his job back if he "walked back in." He came back, walking on crutches, and was turned away. He went to raising apples and made a modest life out of it, working every day in the orchards from a golf car modified to suit his needs, driving his own modified truck, and pretty much getting it done. He never parked in the handicapped space and refused a power wheel chair because his chair was "good exercise." He still found time to spend with grandkids and share his wisdom. He never once complained about his lot in life. He would have hated the SJWs at A+, FtB, etc. because they are do nothing complainers. He would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, but would smack you upside the head for wining about your lot in life if you weren't willing to do anything to help yourself.Bourne Skeptic wrote:I remember my Grandpa telling me that poem back in the late 60's.BillHamp wrote:
That reminds me of a poem my dad used to recite. Perhaps you have heard it. it goes like this:
Ladies and gentlemen, hobos and tramps, cross-eyed mosquitoes and bowlegged ant,
I come here before you to stand there behind you to tell you a story I know nothing about.
One dark night in the middle of day, two dead men came out to play.
Back to back they faced one another, drew their swords and shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard the noise and came to save the two dead boys.
If you believe these lies are true, just ask the blind man, he saw them too.
Now, I am sure there are many versions of this little poem, but I was reminded of it when I saw your words and those before yours. I never realized just how accurately this poem reflects on PZ, FtB, A+, etc. They are all about as coherent.
Holy fuck am I getting old!
They do live in a upside-down backwards world where the definition of words mean what they say they mean, but only for the duration of that conversation. Sometimes it even changes during the conversation if they find it advantageous.
I don't get Brayton's role in this. He doesn't post FfTB drama/bullshit on his blog. He did participate in the back channel lynch mob going after Tf00t, but he's generally steered clear of the whole thing. How long can he ride the fence? Will he join the mindless horde or distance himself to maintain credibility with the skeptical world?Sulman wrote:I've touched on it before, but there's usually someone in the wings that understands what is going on, and it wouldn't surprise me if they started quietly sidelining the extreme members of FTB, because, lets face it, they've got absolutely ridiculous in the last month.Hemisphere wrote:Didn't PZ's fellow blogger Ophelia Benson write a book focused on mocking postmodernism? The Dictionary of Fashionable Nonsense?
I wonder how OB is going to take Myer's new-found faith in the religion that is postmodernism.
It always starts with the moderates quietly walking away.
By the same standard, I am wondering if the more beligerent behaviour from Watto's gang is because they're getting desperate.
I'm guessing he's looking at revenue, which probably isn't that bad given the amount of traffic they must have had recently; even if it is fool's gold.katamari Damassi wrote:I don't get Brayton's role in this. He doesn't post FfTB drama/bullshit on his blog. He did participate in the back channel lynch mob going after Tf00t, but he's generally steered clear of the whole thing. How long can he ride the fence? Will he join the mindless horde or distance himself to maintain credibility with the skeptical world?Sulman wrote:I've touched on it before, but there's usually someone in the wings that understands what is going on, and it wouldn't surprise me if they started quietly sidelining the extreme members of FTB, because, lets face it, they've got absolutely ridiculous in the last month.Hemisphere wrote:Didn't PZ's fellow blogger Ophelia Benson write a book focused on mocking postmodernism? The Dictionary of Fashionable Nonsense?
I wonder how OB is going to take Myer's new-found faith in the religion that is postmodernism.
It always starts with the moderates quietly walking away.
By the same standard, I am wondering if the more beligerent behaviour from Watto's gang is because they're getting desperate.
Brayton's too busy worrying about hosting, bandwidth, and cloudflare bills to care much about PZ's latest idiocy.katamari Damassi wrote:I don't get Brayton's role in this. He doesn't post FfTB drama/bullshit on his blog. He did participate in the back channel lynch mob going after Tf00t, but he's generally steered clear of the whole thing. How long can he ride the fence? Will he join the mindless horde or distance himself to maintain credibility with the skeptical world?Sulman wrote:I've touched on it before, but there's usually someone in the wings that understands what is going on, and it wouldn't surprise me if they started quietly sidelining the extreme members of FTB, because, lets face it, they've got absolutely ridiculous in the last month.Hemisphere wrote:Didn't PZ's fellow blogger Ophelia Benson write a book focused on mocking postmodernism? The Dictionary of Fashionable Nonsense?
I wonder how OB is going to take Myer's new-found faith in the religion that is postmodernism.
It always starts with the moderates quietly walking away.
By the same standard, I am wondering if the more beligerent behaviour from Watto's gang is because they're getting desperate.
It's good for kids to have these sorts of people in their lives, thankfully I had a few.BillHamp wrote:I can only imagine what my grandpa would have to say about the A+ers if he were still alive. He wasn't a perfect man, but I much admired him. He was paralyzed from the waist down at roughly 40 years of age and was told by his boss at the local steel mill that he would have his job back if he "walked back in." He came back, walking on crutches, and was turned away. He went to raising apples and made a modest life out of it, working every day in the orchards from a golf car modified to suit his needs, driving his own modified truck, and pretty much getting it done. He never parked in the handicapped space and refused a power wheel chair because his chair was "good exercise." He still found time to spend with grandkids and share his wisdom. He never once complained about his lot in life. He would have hated the SJWs at A+, FtB, etc. because they are do nothing complainers. He would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, but would smack you upside the head for wining about your lot in life if you weren't willing to do anything to help yourself.Bourne Skeptic wrote:I remember my Grandpa telling me that poem back in the late 60's.BillHamp wrote:
That reminds me of a poem my dad used to recite. Perhaps you have heard it. it goes like this:
Ladies and gentlemen, hobos and tramps, cross-eyed mosquitoes and bowlegged ant,
I come here before you to stand there behind you to tell you a story I know nothing about.
One dark night in the middle of day, two dead men came out to play.
Back to back they faced one another, drew their swords and shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard the noise and came to save the two dead boys.
If you believe these lies are true, just ask the blind man, he saw them too.
Now, I am sure there are many versions of this little poem, but I was reminded of it when I saw your words and those before yours. I never realized just how accurately this poem reflects on PZ, FtB, A+, etc. They are all about as coherent.
Holy fuck am I getting old!
They do live in a upside-down backwards world where the definition of words mean what they say they mean, but only for the duration of that conversation. Sometimes it even changes during the conversation if they find it advantageous.
No, it is the ScotchZenspace wrote:
...That might just be the Scotch talking, but I don't think so. :snooty:
That's what I have a problem with(bolded), I'll bend over backwards to help someone that's willing to work too make their life better, but I refuse to do that for someone that's isn't willing to help themselves. A bunch of entitled cry-babies.BillHamp wrote:I can only imagine what my grandpa would have to say about the A+ers if he were still alive. He wasn't a perfect man, but I much admired him. He was paralyzed from the waist down at roughly 40 years of age and was told by his boss at the local steel mill that he would have his job back if he "walked back in." He came back, walking on crutches, and was turned away. He went to raising apples and made a modest life out of it, working every day in the orchards from a golf car modified to suit his needs, driving his own modified truck, and pretty much getting it done. He never parked in the handicapped space and refused a power wheel chair because his chair was "good exercise." He still found time to spend with grandkids and share his wisdom. He never once complained about his lot in life. He would have hated the SJWs at A+, FtB, etc. because they are do nothing complainers. He would give you the shirt off his back if you needed it, but would smack you upside the head for wining about your lot in life if you weren't willing to do anything to help yourself.Bourne Skeptic wrote:I remember my Grandpa telling me that poem back in the late 60's.BillHamp wrote:
That reminds me of a poem my dad used to recite. Perhaps you have heard it. it goes like this:
Ladies and gentlemen, hobos and tramps, cross-eyed mosquitoes and bowlegged ant,
I come here before you to stand there behind you to tell you a story I know nothing about.
One dark night in the middle of day, two dead men came out to play.
Back to back they faced one another, drew their swords and shot each other.
A deaf policeman heard the noise and came to save the two dead boys.
If you believe these lies are true, just ask the blind man, he saw them too.
Now, I am sure there are many versions of this little poem, but I was reminded of it when I saw your words and those before yours. I never realized just how accurately this poem reflects on PZ, FtB, A+, etc. They are all about as coherent.
Holy fuck am I getting old!
They do live in a upside-down backwards world where the definition of words mean what they say they mean, but only for the duration of that conversation. Sometimes it even changes during the conversation if they find it advantageous.
Oh, c'mon. If you quote The Simpsons, you MUST embed the corresponding video:BillHamp wrote:So much wisdom to be had from the Simpsons. Just don't go out like old Grimey did!FrankGrimes wrote:
Mine was a quote from Leonard Nimoy in a Simpsons episode but that poem is great! Havn'e heard it since I was a kid. Thanks for reminding me. :)
[youtube]yE6lW8TazZM[/youtube]BillHamp wrote:So much wisdom to be had from the Simpsons. Just don't go out like old Grimey did!FrankGrimes wrote:
Mine was a quote from Leonard Nimoy in a Simpsons episode but that poem is great! Havn'e heard it since I was a kid. Thanks for reminding me. :)
218
PZ Myers
10 September 2013 at 9:11 pm (UTC -5)
OK, guys, you really need some help here. For example:
heat albumin to 100 degrees centigrade in a solution of phosphate buffered saline with beta mercaptoethanol at 1 atmosphere, it’s non-covalent bonds will dissociate.
That’s true. That’s a fact. Proteins have measurable, quantifiable properties. There are some wacky postmodernists out there who’ll try to argue with that, but most won’t. Instead, they’ll ask you,
What does it mean? What is the context? What is the purpose of dissociating non-covalent bonds in that molecule? What is the framework of knowledge in which that fits?
Most scientists are comfortable with the distinction between data and information (I think). You’ve plopped out a datum. Fine. Now explain why.
I get this all the time with students. You can give them a recipe to follow out of a lab cookbook, and they can follow it and it works fine, most of the time. When it doesn’t, they’re lost, because they don’t understand the mechanism, the theory, the whole big background of solutes and solvents, dissociation constants, the interactions between salts and pH and temperature, that whole massive edifice of scientific knowledge behind your simple statement that you take completely for granted.
That’s postmodernism. Wake up and notice all your assumptions.
If you’re a good scientist, you’re practicing postmodernism all the time
Sweet baby Jesus....ianfc wrote:Rehabilitated post-modernism I guess http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-689225
PZ MYers wrote: If you’re a good scientist, you’re practicing postmodernism all the time
FFS - bring in the FCs. Is this the pussyist Board of Directors ever? Or is there maybe more to the story?... the past few days have been emotionally wrought for everyone. They’re scared. They’re angry ... thanks to Grothe’s bullying, two of the four board members have resigned ... it’s a mess ...
Brive1987 wrote:And as sure as night follows day PZ does a followup on the Skepchick DJ story:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ar-ethics/
Ha, ha, ha.Paul Myers wrote:In case you’re interested, DJ Grothe will be speaking at the Midwest Philosophy Colloquium on the University of Minnesota Morris campus next week. I can’t attend; it’s scheduled at the same time as one of our HHMI student research events.
University of Minnesota Morris is a fairly small satellite branch. I wonder how well respected Paul Myers is on campus and if perhaps they are as sick of his shit as we are. We see his bullshit on occasion on the blogs if we bother to read it. Imagine having to work with this douche-weasel and to have him be the most well known person on campus.PDX_Greg wrote: 10 September 2013 at 6:47 pm (UTC -5)
You’ve got to be kidding! Who the hell was in charge of that speaker invitation?
Every scientific rationalist in the world just facepalmed.PZ MYers wrote: If you’re a good scientist, you’re practicing postmodernism all the time
[youtube]KWuLVtH6vgM[/youtube]... the past few days have been emotionally wrought for everyone. They’re scared. They’re angry ... thanks to Grothe’s bullying, two of the four board members have resigned ... it’s a mess ...
