Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

[JackSkeptic]

*groan*

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... 9b66a9.png

Source

You know, I don't even have a problem with some of that shit, but that's not the point. None of that has anything to do with not believing in/rejecting deities . Why do atheists keep trying to play this "We're moral/more moral!" game?

[And no, I don't give two shits if it's a quote from so-and-so. And don't even get me started on how stupid I think this "monument" is.]

Hear hear. The quote is apparently from Madalyn Murray O'hair, which I actually held in somewhat higher regard before this. The whole "atheist (must do) does this or that" is pretty face-palm worthy in light of recent developments, regardless of whether you actually agree with her edicts (and like you, I mostly do). Maybe shouldn't be too harsh on her though seeing as she was fighting a much steeper up hill battle in her time than any of the New Atheist did, let alone parasites like Priest Myers.

That's fair. I still find myself disagreeing with the whole "we're moral too!" game. The whole thing seems childish to me, though I guess "I don't need god to be moral" is a lot easier for the layperson to follow [and more palatable] than "morality is subjective"...

Living not far from that monument, it's the most amazing job of trolling fundies EVER. The amount of drama a fucking bit of granite is causing is glorious. Simply glorious.

Well, when you put it that way, I guess I can appreciate it a little more... :think:

That's why I separate Atheism with Atheist activism. with activism it generally means secularism, explaining what atheism means (not devil worshipping/immoral) and fighting the religious. That is when I would happily say what is on that piece of stone.

[Typical_Name]

Correction: I attributed that remark to ffqc, but upon searching for the quote, I found it was actually Typical_Name who authored it.

In my defense, there wasn't much difference between the two.

Fuck off; don't compare me to that fucker.

I beg your pardon, what have I done wrong at this point? Anything at all?

If you would like a cinematic rendering of the birth of the slymepit, that also references the Dublin conference that is winding up, I would refer you and the other noobs to this short documentary.

That seems to portray Slymepit in a rather negative light. I take it it is satirical?

I've been live-tweeting day 2 of #EWTS2013 - check feed for updates

We have a speaker, Kennedy, who said her Marxism informs her feminism talking about 'rape culture' and the usual stuff we hear... See the tweets.

Ha! I bet some lurkers were thinking I was full of shit when I mentioned Marxism being one of the deeper roots of the dogma. Nope. It's there. Not all branches of feminism, but it seems current feminism in academia has a chocolatey post-modernist coating over a succulent Marxist-peanutbutter centre. Yum!

I'm confused as to how feminism is derived from Marxism. Aren't non-economic issues like religion, race, and gender usually thought of as diversions that result in false consciousness, which the bourgeoisie use to divide the proletariat against itself?

Lsuoma and the few pit sycophants are hypocrites, plain and simple.

A little bit of dissent/criticism and the troll accusations fly? Ironic.

Banning someone for threatening to use a sockpuppet? Wut?

Putting someone in moderation for dissing the pit? You must be joking.

Flipping out over a joke about giving orders? Ego.

Pedantic fainting couch bullshit about slurs? Embarrassing.

Is there anything more fftb-ish? Same coin different side.

There's more but I ain't got time for dat.

Bubble: You're in one.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... crite.jpeg

The guy that got banned was a troll. Judging by his posts, he had it coming to him.

He does handle it with aplomb - though there are some ridiculously dramatic rotten twittersphere tomatoes being lobbed his way:

Those are worth posting directly:

[/quote]

... I'm confused, why would she not feel safe? Is the implication that Justin was somehow threatening her?

I am twitter user @aycenne - feel I should clarify. Some shocking and traumatising images were used very early on with no warning. As a trauma survivor did not return as did not feel secure or safe. Was disappointed that someone who attended and I thought cared about women's empowerment was so flippant.

But thanks for completely miscontruing my words and thinking I was attacking Justin directly/scared of him.

Unsafe, as in triggered flashbacks. Feelings of being trapped, doom, panic attacks etc. Rarely happens unless images are very traumatising, speaker herself was close to tears. Utterly no mention of it beforehand, not even a hint it would be covered.
Justin seemed like a totally nice guy when I met him, which is why i couldn't believe how flippant he was of something that is very real and painful for me.

Oh, that makes more sense, then. I is confused as to how that relates to Justin, though; his blog post doesn't seem to have any connection with the images you've mentioned, unless I've missed something.

[Deo Vacuus]

[/quote]Or just open your bedroom window and talk to him face-to-face.[/quote]

:clap:

[Metalogic42]

Thanks for all being so nice! :)
But ya, I sent that tweet cause I was suprised at Justin - it seemed to come into conflict with the man I met. I meant to start a chat about it with him, just found that for some reason my twitter has blocked him (think its something to do with the spambot at EWTS) so thats why I never continued the discussion.
And ofc, its the internet so everything escalates.

You're welcome to Skype (handle: justinvacula), email justinvacula (at) gmail (dot) com, or whatever other means.

I'd like to hear Aycenne on brave hero radio. Also, a question for Aycenne:

Ok, there were some graphic images shown without warning, and you were triggered. That sucks - seriously, no sarcasm intended. But to be fair, people can be triggered by all kinds of images, not just graphic ones, and even sounds. And even those who have been through all kinds of terrible things might *not* be triggered by graphic images, and may be by seemingly innocuous things (red clothing, the sound of bells ringing, etc.). The point is, I'm not aware of any way to reliably determine what will or won't trigger a random sampling of people (i.e. an audience). So how do you propose we go about setting policies for this sort of thing?

[Aycenne]

I feel I've clarified as much as I can, and anything left are the tiny details I wanted to chat to Justin about. So imma head to bed, 3am here.
Thanks for those who made me feel welcome.
Justin I'll email you, but I guess everything I was gonna say has pretty much been said! :P
Talk cha.

[Karmakin]

@Aycenne: As someone who was on the other side of the divide when the whole harassment policy thing came up, let me just put this out there.

Those policies were never ever intended to protect you.

They were are and always will be intended to be used as clubs against "undesirables". Nothing more, nothing less. They're the tools of social bullying.

[J.D.]

And it gets more fun from there:

BWAHAHAHA. That's some funny shit right there.

[JackSkeptic]

Women being tied up, beaten etc. Quite graphic. Am very outgoing and confident, so to elicit that kinda effect they were pretty serious.

First off thanks for clarifying.

Second off in what context were these pictures shown and how do you know who was being flippant about the possible reaction?

[Mykeru]

And douchebag drags The Slymepit into it: http://goo.gl/yqe1S

I know, it's silly, but I really have to wonder if the people who go for the "harassment" card actually read the radio buttons on the abuse page and scratch their heads at which they are supposed to click

[Lsuoma]

And douchebag drags The Slymepit into it: http://goo.gl/yqe1S

Feel ma POWAH, bitchez!!!

[free thoughtpolice]

typical-name; I take it that was a rhetorical question.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Shit, you're right. Did she not notice the date of that blog entry (25 june) was well before the conference and certainly before the pictures were displayed in the conference? He was certainly not flippant in the face of someone being triggered, he was flippant in the face of the over the top reaction of the fc(n) re policies.

So the liar and bullshitter turns out to be a liar and a bullshitter? No surprise here. I been asking xer for EVIDENCE instead of OPINION per the Hitchens quote and the idjit bullshit liar has provided none. I have thus *FLOOSH* sent xer to the waste disposal system for decontamination, prior to xer acceptance by rational skeptics such as myself, a scientist with 230+ years of experience.

Your Nerd of Redhead impression is getting old very quickly.

That is your OPINION, idjit fuckwit. Until you back it up with some EVIDENCE such as is found in the peer-reviewed literature at google.com, you are *FLOOSH* dismissed as irrelevant to fade into obscurity.

http://i.imgur.com/YJvWh9a.jpg

[J.D.]

PZ walked out on what im assuming is Catherine O'Brien talk. Perhaps JV can confirm

No need for that, the bloated failure from the cornfield confirmed it himself:

http://i40.tinypic.com/w6pcnd.png

[JackSkeptic]

Thank you. Neither me or Becca have a problem with Justin, were both surprised at how he seemed flippant is all.
We also had never heard of him before this, so this whole thing about us being scared of him attacking us is nonsense.

My second post on this and again thanks for clarifying. Unfortunately JV has, in the past, had numerous similar comments aimed at him just for existing. In fact many of us have. It shows to me how such serious issues are being trivialised by those who seek advantage from it.

JV is so mild he sometimes seems too laid back. That does not mean he considers issues such as this trivial at all. Certain pictures trigger me but while I would never tell anyone what they are I appreciate it is a real emotional response and not fake.

[Mykeru]

And douchebag drags The Slymepit into it: http://goo.gl/yqe1S

Feel ma POWAH, bitchez!!!

Our reputation is truly fearsome

[ERV]

At least in feminist spaces, 'safe space' policy often includes things about anti-harrassment and triggering images.
It was mainly his tone which seemed really trivalising for something that is a real concern for many people.

Ugh.

Uuuuuuugh.

I would take a million ffqc over one of these.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.

Glad Aycenne is posting here, engaging in discussion - shows, I hope, willingness to engage with others' ideas, expand on/defend own ideas, and open-mindedness. Keep it up.

She was so 'triggered' by predictable images in an utterly safe environment she skipped the second day of a relatively expensive conference she wanted to attend, out of 'fear'.

She needs to be talking to a psychiatrist about her inappropriate response to stimuli, not indulging in her illness online with others supporting/encouraging her inappropriate behavior.

Pretty sure her psychiatrist didnt include "Stop activities you love!" "Isolate yourself!" "Expect everyone else to change their behavior for you! Even people who dont know you exist!" "Surround yourself with people who enable your negative thoughts and behaviors!" in her treatment plan.

Ugh.

[Lsuoma]

And douchebag drags The Slymepit into it: http://goo.gl/yqe1S

Feel ma POWAH, bitchez!!!

Our reputation is truly fearsome

Shame we be just a sad bunch of losers wanking off in our mothers' basements...

(Fap, fap, fap)

[JackRayner]

Women being tied up, beaten etc. Quite graphic. Am very outgoing and confident, so to elicit that kinda effect they were pretty serious.

Well I'll fess up to speaking without having enough information. Apologies.

If I may, you still don't have "information", merely the OPINION of one person. Which, without EVIDENCE, can be *FLOOSH* dismissed per the Hitchens quote.

This!

Thank you. Neither me or Becca have a problem with Justin, were both surprised at how he seemed flippant is all.
We also had never heard of him before this, so this whole thing about us being scared of him attacking us is nonsense.

OPINION with no EVIDENCE. *FLOOSH* dismissed as irrelevant.

Thiiiiiiiiissss!

[JackSkeptic]

I was planning on giving feedback at the Q + A next day - but got more upset that night and ended up not going in. Didn't expect anyone to be looking at my twitter tbh, a 20 year old student!
Also if anyone actually looked at my twitter timeline, you'd see that I explained what exactly my issue was as I have here.
I'm pretty good at avoiding grpahic images/preparing myself for them in certain spaces. I naively assumed that at an Empowering Women conference that they would make provision for survivors (1 in 4 women) and just at least give a heads up. It was the first talk on a Secularism and State panel, I REALLY wasn't expecting it!

Maybe contacting the organisers would help for future conventions. You may be twenty but at more than double your age I would not have expected such pictures either. Usually it's cut and paste rubbish or simple text.

[Lsuoma]

Ugh.

Uuuuuuugh.

I would take a million ffqc over one of these.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.

Glad Aycenne is posting here, engaging in discussion - shows, I hope, willingness to engage with others' ideas, expand on/defend own ideas, and open-mindedness. Keep it up.

She was so 'triggered' by predictable images in an utterly safe environment she skipped the second day of a relatively expensive conference she wanted to attend, out of 'fear'.

She needs to be talking to a psychiatrist about her inappropriate response to stimuli, not indulging in her illness online with others supporting/encouraging her inappropriate behavior.

Pretty sure her psychiatrist didnt include "Stop activities you love!" "Isolate yourself!" "Expect everyone else to change their behavior for you! Even people who dont know you exist!" "Surround yourself with people who enable your negative thoughts and behaviors!" in her treatment plan.

Ugh.

No shit. This sort of behavior is going to turn her into someone afraid to leave the house eventually. The outside world is full of stimuli beyond one's control. Adding every new unpleasant experience to a list of things that absolutely must be avoided will destroy your life and ability to function. It seems to me that if any of the women's "support" groups - hell, ANY "support" group - promotes the idea that avoiding a real problem is a solution to that problem, they are doing incredible damage to vulnerable people, and basically progressively infantilizing them.

[J.D.]

... Certain pictures trigger me but while I would never tell anyone what they are I appreciate it is a real emotional response and not fake.

Up until a few weeks ago I thought there were no images that could trigger me. I was wrong. After seeing a trojan horse PETA ad, I've never been so fucking angry and upset at anything as much as I was at the ad's makers or the sick fucks they portrayed.

[JackSkeptic]

:clap: A round of applause for JV's diligent conference coverage. He takes a lot of flack, even here. But where credit earned it should be recognized IMO. He indeed did NOT misstep in the Capital of Eire.

He did a great job and thanks for helping him to do that.

PS: Id call in but from the UK it would cost a million quid, can't you get skype or something working for your show?

Skype works swimmingly! Once the show goes live a call via Skype button appears, you click and voilá! and we look forward to your calling in for upcoming shows :D

Then that evil JV lied to me a few months back!!! Or maybe he hadn't got it sorted then. I blame his moustache that had me hypnotised.

[J.D.]

...
She was so 'triggered' by predictable images in an utterly safe environment she skipped the second day of a relatively expensive conference she wanted to attend, out of 'fear'.

Completely depends on whether they were predictable or not. Why would she have an expectation of seeing graphic images?

I'm not sure, what was the title of the talk?

[ERV]

...
She was so 'triggered' by predictable images in an utterly safe environment she skipped the second day of a relatively expensive conference she wanted to attend, out of 'fear'.

Completely depends on whether they were predictable or not. Why would she have an expectation of seeing graphic images?

I'm not sure, what was the title of the talk?

Well I would assume at a conference on empowering women, you would, at some point, refer to women who were not empowered.

[JackSkeptic]

:clap: A round of applause for JV's diligent conference coverage. He takes a lot of flack, even here. But where credit earned it should be recognized IMO. He indeed did NOT misstep in the Capital of Eire.

He did a great job and thanks for helping him to do that.

PS: Id call in but from the UK it would cost a million quid, can't you get skype or something working for your show?

Skype is always working for live shows - we say this in introduction, show notes, and elsewhere - use Skype click-to-call button on show page during live episode for free call :)

Hope to have you on next show!

Get lost you stalker, leave me alone!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: loved you podcasts in Ireland.

[J.D.]

...
No shit. This sort of behavior is going to turn her into someone afraid to leave the house eventually. The outside world is full of stimuli beyond one's control. Adding every new unpleasant experience to a list of things that absolutely must be avoided will destroy your life and ability to function. It seems to me that if any of the women's "support" groups - hell, ANY "support" group - promotes the idea that avoiding a real problem is a solution to that problem, they are doing incredible damage to vulnerable people, and basically progressively infantilizing them.

She's only 20; perhaps what ever happened to her is a recent experience. It often takes awhile to process things like traumatic events.

[ReneeHendricks]

...
She was so 'triggered' by predictable images in an utterly safe environment she skipped the second day of a relatively expensive conference she wanted to attend, out of 'fear'.

Completely depends on whether they were predictable or not. Why would she have an expectation of seeing graphic images?

I'm not sure, what was the title of the talk?

I believe she had stated it was the first session: "Session 1 – Reproductive rights and Irish abortion law".

I could be wrong.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Shit, you're right. Did she not notice the date of that blog entry (25 june) was well before the conference and certainly before the pictures were displayed in the conference? He was certainly not flippant in the face of someone being triggered, he was flippant in the face of the over the top reaction of the fc(n) re policies.

So the liar and bullshitter turns out to be a liar and a bullshitter? No surprise here. I been asking xer for EVIDENCE instead of OPINION per the Hitchens quote and the idjit bullshit liar has provided none. I have thus *FLOOSH* sent xer to the waste disposal system for decontamination, prior to xer acceptance by rational skeptics such as myself, a scientist with 230+ years of experience.

Your Nerd of Redhead impression is getting old very quickly.

Seriously Gumby, someone came here and started in with the "triggering" stuff, and several people - including yourself - seemed to immediately fold and prostrate yourselves for a good old whipping. It was a bit pathetic of y'all IMO, so I pointed out - through the ever-hilarious medium of NoR - that (s)he had offered nothing but a personal opinion. Seems you should be the one apologizing, not me.

[Deo Vacuus]

... Certain pictures trigger me but while I would never tell anyone what they are I appreciate it is a real emotional response and not fake.

Up until a few weeks ago I thought there were no images that could trigger me. I was wrong. After seeing a trojan horse PETA ad, I've never been so fucking angry and upset at anything as much as I was at the ad's makers or the sick fucks they portrayed.

I think I saw the same ad you did. It was very disturbing.

[ERV]

...
No shit. This sort of behavior is going to turn her into someone afraid to leave the house eventually. The outside world is full of stimuli beyond one's control. Adding every new unpleasant experience to a list of things that absolutely must be avoided will destroy your life and ability to function. It seems to me that if any of the women's "support" groups - hell, ANY "support" group - promotes the idea that avoiding a real problem is a solution to that problem, they are doing incredible damage to vulnerable people, and basically progressively infantilizing them.

She's only 20; perhaps what ever happened to her is a recent experience. It often takes awhile to process things like traumatic events.

Not my problem. Not Justins problem. Not the organizers problem. Not the internets problem. Its something she needs to be discussing with a psychiatrist, and considering her unrealistic expectations of others, I doubt she is doing that. THAT is unfortunate, and if she wants help finding medical help, I would love The Pit to help.

[Cunning Punt]

...
She was so 'triggered' by predictable images in an utterly safe environment she skipped the second day of a relatively expensive conference she wanted to attend, out of 'fear'.

Completely depends on whether they were predictable or not. Why would she have an expectation of seeing graphic images?

I'm not sure, what was the title of the talk?

Well I would assume at a conference on empowering women, you would, at some point, refer to women who were not empowered.

Therefore graphic images? I don't see it. I was initially scathing but until I learn more about the talk I'm not judging.

[Cunning Punt]

So the liar and bullshitter turns out to be a liar and a bullshitter? No surprise here. I been asking xer for EVIDENCE instead of OPINION per the Hitchens quote and the idjit bullshit liar has provided none. I have thus *FLOOSH* sent xer to the waste disposal system for decontamination, prior to xer acceptance by rational skeptics such as myself, a scientist with 230+ years of experience.

Your Nerd of Redhead impression is getting old very quickly.

Seriously Gumby, someone came here and started in with the "triggering" stuff, and several people - including yourself - seemed to immediately fold and prostrate yourselves for a good old whipping. It was a bit pathetic of y'all IMO, so I pointed out - through the ever-hilarious medium of NoR - that (s)he had offered nothing but a personal opinion. Seems you should be the one apologizing, not me.

Yawn.

[J.D.]

...
She was so 'triggered' by predictable images in an utterly safe environment she skipped the second day of a relatively expensive conference she wanted to attend, out of 'fear'.

Completely depends on whether they were predictable or not. Why would she have an expectation of seeing graphic images?

I'm not sure, what was the title of the talk?

Well I would assume at a conference on empowering women, you would, at some point, refer to women who were not empowered.

Ummmm, no. Besides in this specific case, what the fuck does that have to do with whether the content and graphic images were predictable or not? Given her story, it seems she had no clue that those types of images where going to be shown and thus, didn't have the option of avoiding them.

That's also why I asked about the title of the talk. Usually speakers provide short descriptions of the content of their talk in the conference schedule. I haven't looked to see whether she should have had an expectation of graphic images.

[Lsuoma]

...
No shit. This sort of behavior is going to turn her into someone afraid to leave the house eventually. The outside world is full of stimuli beyond one's control. Adding every new unpleasant experience to a list of things that absolutely must be avoided will destroy your life and ability to function. It seems to me that if any of the women's "support" groups - hell, ANY "support" group - promotes the idea that avoiding a real problem is a solution to that problem, they are doing incredible damage to vulnerable people, and basically progressively infantilizing them.

She's only 20; perhaps what ever happened to her is a recent experience. It often takes awhile to process things like traumatic events.

Only 20? By that age I'd been living on my own for three years, had spent a summer on the run from the law (lived on Dam Square, and was repatriated by the cops in handcuffs), beaten drug addiction and been sexually molested by a foster mother (who eventually fled the UK when it turned out she'd been doing it for almost two decades).

Yes, my experience was very unusual, but seriously, 20 years is adult nowadays. Seriously, if you can't face stuff like an adult at that age and need to retreat, then - as ERV says - you need professional help.

[Skep tickle]

Seriously Gumby, someone came here and started in with the "triggering" stuff, and several people - including yourself - seemed to immediately fold and prostrate yourselves for a good old whipping. It was a bit pathetic of y'all IMO, so I pointed out - through the ever-hilarious medium of NoR - that (s)he had offered nothing but a personal opinion. Seems you should be the one apologizing, not me.

But triggering is pretty much always going to be a personal experience (opinion), isn't it?

I found it useful to hear/read that there might have been another explanation for the tweet. (Even if the reference to Justin doesn't seem fully explained; whatever.)

Whether or not I find that explanation compelling is a different matter, and actually doesn't matter (to me).

Noone called a halt to the conference, noone (apparently) considered hauling Justin away, & whether or not Aycenne attended day 2 after paying for it - or contacted the conference staff to let them know of her experience & concerns - or feels the need to be able to face whatever the trigger was in the future, by whatever means that might take - are completely up to her.

[JackSkeptic]

I feel I've clarified as much as I can, and anything left are the tiny details I wanted to chat to Justin about. So imma head to bed, 3am here.
Thanks for those who made me feel welcome.
Justin I'll email you, but I guess everything I was gonna say has pretty much been said! :P
Talk cha.

I hope you call into his show. He really is harmless, not even 'mostly harmless', but harmless. But he takes a lot of heavy abuse in similar tones to your complaint, which is why you got the reaction you did.

[J.D.]

....
Not my problem. Not Justins problem. Not the organizers problem. Not the internets problem. Its something she needs to be discussing with a psychiatrist, and considering her unrealistic expectations of others, I doubt she is doing that. THAT is unfortunate,... .

Wow that's a lot of completely unsupported assumptions.

[ReneeHendricks]

Seriously Gumby, someone came here and started in with the "triggering" stuff, and several people - including yourself - seemed to immediately fold and prostrate yourselves for a good old whipping. It was a bit pathetic of y'all IMO, so I pointed out - through the ever-hilarious medium of NoR - that (s)he had offered nothing but a personal opinion. Seems you should be the one apologizing, not me.

I must be one of those who prostrated then. I still stand by my original rant as it happens more often than not. But I will *always* admit when I'm wrong - I thought she and her friend were afraid of being at the conference because of Justin Vacula. From looking at what she put here and going through her tweets, clearly I was wrong.

And, yep, I apologized for going over the top. Call it having a bit of an inside intuition that beating her over the head with shit wasn't going to make things better for her.

So, I'm a dirty, dirty prostrater. Or is that prostrator? Maybe I'm thinking of prostates. Or prostitutes.

[JackRayner]

Yyyyyyyeah, no. Still not seeing how any of this "triggering" business has to do with the tweet about feeling unsafe that links straight to Dracula's Vacula's blog post.

Here's the tweet:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... 642da4.png

[bhoytony]

We've all had shitty things happen to us. Fuck me, I used to have a job where I narrowly avoided being killed or maimed on numerous occasions and people I know died or were severely injured. Once my friend had his foot severed above the ankle as he stood next to me, but I didn't go doo-lally when ERV posted that picture of her Crocs. I'm sure plenty of people on here have had much, much worse experiences, but they still manage to function in society without expecting life to carry trigger warnings.

[JackRayner]

Should be "Still not seeing WHAT any of this 'triggering' business has to do with..."

[ReneeHendricks]

Yyyyyyyeah, no. Still not seeing how any of this "triggering" business has to do with the tweet about feeling unsafe that links straight to Dracula's Vacula's blog post.

Here's the tweet:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... 642da4.png

That was hours after she had her image triggering issue. She had her problem on day one. She found Vacula's post on day two. Unfortunately, you have to read through her tweets and pull in other tweets to figure it out.

[J.D.]

[quote="J.D."
Up until a few weeks ago I thought there were no images that could trigger me. I was wrong. After seeing a trojan horse PETA ad, I've never been so fucking angry and upset at anything as much as I was at the ad's makers or the sick fucks they portrayed.

I think I saw the same ad you did. It was very disturbing.[/quote]

Miss Americas? Fucking thing was a trojan horse with the sickest shit I've ever seen and I've seen and lived through some fucked up things (combat, violence, and death of a shit ton of things). I wanted to be transported to that scene with a 12 gauge and a rusty knife and then back to the studio where the sick fucks put that video together.

[JackSkeptic]

... Certain pictures trigger me but while I would never tell anyone what they are I appreciate it is a real emotional response and not fake.

Up until a few weeks ago I thought there were no images that could trigger me. I was wrong. After seeing a trojan horse PETA ad, I've never been so fucking angry and upset at anything as much as I was at the ad's makers or the sick fucks they portrayed.

I know the reason for my emotional response but I would never seek to avoid them or ask that they never be shown. It is my issue and not anyone else's. Following that road means sterile discussions and debates. Not something I have any interest in.

[Wonderist]

Don't think so. On the call he talked about a book (by Sokal) and said he'd post the link in the chat. Then as soon as he hung up "Harry" in the chat posted the link. He also demonstrated actual knowledge of the Sokal affair in the chat, very quickly, not enough time to get familiar with it on the fly with google/wikipedia. Also, "Harry" was in the chat since the very beginning of the show, and the caller called himself "The Letter H". I'm fairly certain the caller and the chatter were the same.

I sent an email last night asking Justin to send Lsuoma the chat log.

I just peeked into the chat yesterday, saw "Harry" posting a link to "triple anal" and seeming very intent on getting ppl to follow link & react. Something about that suggested "troll"... :roll:

Yes, and there were other trollish things in the chat, no doubt. It was only when he actually did seemingly helpful things without asking (calling in and not being a prank call but seemingly being sincere) that I let my guard down and thought, "Well, maybe he's an inept teenager enamoured with troll culture. Maybe he's open to reason." And I warned him about his off-topic ranting and he stopped. What kind of troll stops when you tell them? It caught me off guard. But everyone in the chat already suspected troll already, for sure. Including me. The show was coming to a close, and I said, 'Come to the pit we'll find out if you're a troll.' And he did and we did.

I work as a tutor and more than one of my students are enamoured with troll culture, Anonymous, etc. I've had some success getting them to think a bit more about the consequences and re-thinking who they look up to online and starting to think more independently and ethically. That experience probably biased my thinking. Well, no, I should say that it *did* bias my thinking, for the simple reason that I did indeed let certain cues slide, and misjudged the probabilities. That was my mistake and I'll own that.

[JackRayner]

Yyyyyyyeah, no. Still not seeing how any of this "triggering" business has to do with the tweet about feeling unsafe that links straight to Dracula's Vacula's blog post.

Here's the tweet:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... 642da4.png

That was hours after she had her image triggering issue. She had her problem on day one. She found Vacula's post on day two. Unfortunately, you have to read through her tweets and pull in other tweets to figure it out.

Figure what out? Did you read Vacula's blog post? It's about harassment policies. Was this "triggering" event something you would define as harassment?

...I wouldn't.

[bhoytony]

Yyyyyyyeah, no. Still not seeing how any of this "triggering" business has to do with the tweet about feeling unsafe that links straight to Dracula's Vacula's blog post.

Here's the tweet:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... 642da4.png

That was hours after she had her image triggering issue. She had her problem on day one. She found Vacula's post on day two. Unfortunately, you have to read through her tweets and pull in other tweets to figure it out.

Justin's blogpost still has nothing to do with the pictures.

[ReneeHendricks]

Yyyyyyyeah, no. Still not seeing how any of this "triggering" business has to do with the tweet about feeling unsafe that links straight to Dracula's Vacula's blog post.

Here's the tweet:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... 642da4.png

That was hours after she had her image triggering issue. She had her problem on day one. She found Vacula's post on day two. Unfortunately, you have to read through her tweets and pull in other tweets to figure it out.

Figure what out? Did you read Vacula's blog post? It's about harassment policies. Was this "triggering" event something you would define as harassment?

...I wouldn't.

1. On day 1, she had her triggering event
2. On day 2, she came across Vacula's 5 days old blog post
3. She made her comment on this not knowing he had since put up a post about the conference guidelines (yesterday)

My comment wasn't on whether or not her triggering event would be considered harassment or not.

[J.D.]

.. I'm sure plenty of people on here have had much, much worse experiences, but they still manage to function in society without expecting life to carry trigger warnings.

Well, first it depends on the individual and how severe and recent the trauma was. Blanket generalizations don't apply. And second, I agree with the sentiment that's it's impossible to avoid all triggering events. I know what to avoid usually. However, If something's a trojan horse in that regard (where I have no expectation of being triggered) it pisses me off to the point of provoking extreme violence and anger

[Wonderist]

Lsuoma and the few pit sycophants are hypocrites, plain and simple.

A little bit of dissent/criticism and the troll accusations fly? Ironic.

Banning someone for threatening to use a sockpuppet? Wut?

Putting someone in moderation for dissing the pit? You must be joking.

Flipping out over a joke about giving orders? Ego.

Pedantic fainting couch bullshit about slurs? Embarrassing.

Is there anything more fftb-ish? Same coin different side.

There's more but I ain't got time for dat.

Bubble: You're in one.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... crite.jpeg

You should be more specific in your accusations and provide quotes and evidence. Clearly, the pit is not uniform, and the alleged 'sins' of one do not rub off on anyone else. Names, quotes, evidence. Do your homework. Making vague accusations against an entire group is demonization and rumour-mongering.

There's more but I ain't got time for dat.

If you want to convince people through reason, then you *need* to spend the necessary time to do it. Otherwise, you're just preaching.

[JackSkeptic]

Yyyyyyyeah, no. Still not seeing how any of this "triggering" business has to do with the tweet about feeling unsafe that links straight to Dracula's Vacula's blog post.

Here's the tweet:

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x17/ ... 642da4.png

That was hours after she had her image triggering issue. She had her problem on day one. She found Vacula's post on day two. Unfortunately, you have to read through her tweets and pull in other tweets to figure it out.

Justin's blogpost still has nothing to do with the pictures.

I can't see any causal link either. In fact the whole thing seems manufactured. However sometimes it is best , for me, not to care for evidence and unless shown otherwise take people at their word. That works when being right or wrong does not really matter. It may matter in the future if we are being trolled or somehow tested but for now it does not. So the benefit of the doubt it the appropriate response for me. If someone is that sad as to make it all up that's their issue, not mine. On the other hand them saying they felt JV was an OK guy (how often does that happen?) turned off my alarm bells.

[bhoytony]

.. I'm sure plenty of people on here have had much, much worse experiences, but they still manage to function in society without expecting life to carry trigger warnings.

Well, first it depends on the individual and how severe and recent the trauma was. Blanket generalizations don't apply. And second, I agree with the sentiment that's it's impossible to avoid all triggering events. I know what to avoid usually. However, If something's a trojan horse in that regard (where I have no expectation of being triggered) it pisses me off to the point of provoking extreme violence and anger

If that's true then you sound like you should follow ERV's advice and get psychiatric help.

[AndrewV69]

The other pertinent thing is that most of the advertisements there are selling to women, not to men.

Which is an interesting fact in itself.

None of those images speak to me in any meaningful way. Is it because I am male or because I am not neurotypical?

In any event I have read somewhere that many women experience a rape fantasy as an idea, that their sexuality is so compelling that it can not be resisted by (presumably a desirable) man. But it should be confused with them actually wanting to be raped unless it is in a structured role play BDSM type of environment.

Do these images play to that sort of thing?

(I do not "get" BDSM myself but I think I have some sort of a vague idea about some aspects of it)

[ReneeHendricks]

Fuck it.

To be honest, I'm getting a giant fucking headache just trying to untangle the inevitable fucking shit-fest that is social media some days. I can see the crooked line but trying to explain it makes my head do 'splody things and my hands aching to do smashing things.

I'm back to having fun.

[JackSkeptic]

The other pertinent thing is that most of the advertisements there are selling to women, not to men.

Which is an interesting fact in itself.

None of those images speak to me in any meaningful way. Is it because I am male or because I am not neurotypical?

In any event I have read somewhere that many women experience a rape fantasy as an idea, that their sexuality is so compelling that it can not be resisted by (presumably a desirable) man. But it should be confused with them actually wanting to be raped unless it is in a structured role play BDSM type of environment.

Do these images play to that sort of thing?

(I do not "get" BDSM myself but I think I have some sort of a vague idea about some aspects of it)

I've known plenty of women, some in high powered jobs, into BDSM and humiliation as 'subs'. I can't explain it and nor can they. However I suspect there is a proportionate amount of men into being a sub too. One of the things I never question is why people have certain sexual desires as it often has sod all to do with their normal lives or their personalities. It is ingrained in us and it is what it is.

[J.D.]

...
I know the reason for my emotional response but I would never seek to avoid them or ask that they never be shown. It is my issue and not anyone else's. Following that road means sterile discussions and debates. Not something I have any interest in.

That's over-stated. Avoiding or minimizing encounters with things that trigger memories of severe trauma doesn't mean you're going down a road of sterile discussions or debate. How does that follow? It doesn't because it's a complete non-sequitar.

I do agree with the sentiment that the world doesn't need to comport with ones "issues". The problem seems to be when expectations are one thing and the actuality is another. As in the Trojan horse example I previously mentioned.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

The other pertinent thing is that most of the advertisements there are selling to women, not to men.

Which is an interesting fact in itself.

None of those images speak to me in any meaningful way. Is it because I am male or because I am not neurotypical?

In any event I have read somewhere that many women experience a rape fantasy as an idea, that their sexuality is so compelling that it can not be resisted by (presumably a desirable) man. But it should be confused with them actually wanting to be raped unless it is in a structured role play BDSM type of environment.

Do these images play to that sort of thing?

(I do not "get" BDSM myself but I think I have some sort of a vague idea about some aspects of it)

I've known plenty of women, some in high powered jobs, into BDSM and humiliation as 'subs'. I can't explain it and nor can they. However I suspect there is a proportionate amount of men into being a sub too. One of the things I never question is why people have certain sexual desires as it often has sod all to do with their normal lives or their personalities. It is ingrained in us and it is what it is.

Yes, there are male and female subs. Subs usually can't explain why they are that way. Some understand and accept it, some fight it. Some doms can explain why individual subs feel that way. It is largely about control, the stress of having to make decisions, or be responsible, or deal with real life... lack of control in DS means no longer needing to make decisions, or be responsible for your actions, etc etc ... that control is passed to another.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

The other pertinent thing is that most of the advertisements there are selling to women, not to men.

Which is an interesting fact in itself.

None of those images speak to me in any meaningful way. Is it because I am male or because I am not neurotypical?

In any event I have read somewhere that many women experience a rape fantasy as an idea, that their sexuality is so compelling that it can not be resisted by (presumably a desirable) man. But it should be confused with them actually wanting to be raped unless it is in a structured role play BDSM type of environment.

Do these images play to that sort of thing?

(I do not "get" BDSM myself but I think I have some sort of a vague idea about some aspects of it)

Yes, they play directly to that - the deep feeling that someone else would be uncontrollably driven by desire for you to take you by force if necessary ... the same thing as playing hard to get by saying No over and over before giving in ... the need to only give in to someone who would make the effort

[AndrewV69]

I am twitter user @aycenne - feel I should clarify. Some shocking and traumatising images were used very early on with no warning. As a trauma survivor did not return as did not feel secure or safe. Was disappointed that someone who attended and I thought cared about women's empowerment was so flippant.

But thanks for completely miscontruing my words and thinking I was attacking Justin directly/scared of him.

I get that you say the images were "shocking and traumatising" but (and my apologies in advance for saying this), unless I can see and judge them myself I am not buying it

I also realize that the 140 char limit of twatter is, well limiting but I am having difficulty making heads or tails of it, even with the additional background you just supplied.

[Wonderist]

I don't care what you do or how you do it, Wonderist... I was just making a couple of observations because you seem to be having difficulty grasping some very simple points. But, you're determined to hide behind walls of blather, so no matter.

More mind reading. How do you know I'm "determined to hide behind walls of blather"? You're assuming that. As I said, ask instead of assuming. Do you think that there's a possibility you could be wrong in your assessment of me? Are you willing to test that belief? Is it open to question?

I was just making a couple of observations because you seem to be having difficulty grasping some very simple points

Which points in particular are you referring to here?

I don't care what you do or how you do it, Wonderist

You have a funny way of showing that you don't care. ;) If you don't care, fine. I can handle that. No problem. But then it makes me wonder: if you don't care, why did you respond? You say to help me grasp some points. Awesome. I would welcome such feedback, sincerely. But it's not clear to me what points you think I'm missing. (And I'm absolutely sure I'm missing some points. I have much to learn. But without more specifics, I'm still left in the dark.)