If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

Listening to “Bricks” by Rise Against.

“We’re setting the fires to light the way
We’re burning it all to begin again
With hope in our hearts
And bricks in our hands
We sing for change”

Seems appropriate.

Ape+lust wrote:PZ just recruited a new FtBer, Alex Gabriel.

http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/godlessness

Mykeru wrote:And she's on the case:

John Greg wrote:Matty C said (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 41#p118841):

Neither Elvis, nor Stevie Ray, nor the Wilsons recorded other people's songs but gave themselves credit for writing those songs.

Well, that's sort of not quite true. Beginning a year or two into his extraordinary fame, Elvis was given 50:50 co-writer publishing credit on all the songs he recorded, even though he had quite literaly absolutely nothing to do with the writing of the songs -- such credit contributed enormously to his eventual massive wealth. Giving Elvis the co-writer credit was the only way song writers could get him to record their work.

A list of some of the songs Zep stole from other artists:


"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
"Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
"Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
"Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
"Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
"The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
"Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
"Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
"White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
"Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

JustAtheist wrote:

katamari Damassi wrote: No sarcasm at all. I support the boycott of all things Russian until their anti gay laws are repealed. Putting some rainbow flags in an ad means fuck all. Start putting pressure and your government and then I'll buy your vodka.

Polish vodka is better anyway

zenbabe wrote:

Cunning Punt wrote:

katamari Damassi wrote: Seconded. Knob Creek in a pinch.

So Southern Comfort's out then?

Yeesh! No! It's SWEET!
I was so shocked, considering how it's ordered in drinks (like a regular bourbon), the first time I tasted it to discover how syrupy it is. /shudder.

I like Woodford. I like this Knob Creek I have, for one you can sip, and also not feel bad about mixing:

http://www.ultimatewineshop.com/images/ ... 174887.jpg

Cold wrote:

lunacy

NEVER FORGIVE

NEVER FORGET

WE ARE LE HORDE xD xD xD

EXPECT US!!!11!@@#

Also how autistic do you have to be to go through the enormous shitpile that is The Grenade Thread and manually count posts? These people truly do live in their own little world.

Guest wrote:

Cold wrote:

lunacy

NEVER FORGIVE

NEVER FORGET

WE ARE LE HORDE xD xD xD

EXPECT US!!!11!@@#

Also how autistic do you have to be to go through the enormous shitpile that is The Grenade Thread and manually count posts? These people truly do live in their own little world.

Christ, who posted that?

Garlic wrote:

Guest wrote:
Christ, who posted that?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-670007

JustAtheist wrote:

Cunning Punt wrote:
So Southern Comfort's out then?

Cough Syrup..

Cunning Punt wrote: Yeah, I know, I was yanking the chains of the cognoscenti Incidentally I remember various non-privileged Horde people discussing their favorite single malts on Pharyngula once, with one genius stating that it should only only be drunk with spring water from the source used to make the mash.

Phoebe_Caulfield wrote:

Rystefn wrote:Willful ignorance, I should say. Like creationists and libertarians.

Well, at least you have that in common in the SJWs. Libertarianism = ignorance, or in the case of radfems, Libertarianism = rapist.

Whatever. That remark was ignorant.

Tapir wrote:

Ape+lust wrote:PZ just recruited a new FtBer, Alex Gabriel.

http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/godlessness

Hey, let's give him the benefit of the dou....

His main pursuit is blending frameworks of secularity and social justice – more than just intersecting actions, he yearns for synthetic secular thought.

Oh christ.

Cold wrote:

I went through the Grenade thread again. I wanted to look at that awful thread from a positive point of view. I wanted to count and admire the number of people who cared enough to say thanks to JD, PZ and the Horde.

The numbers:

Posts with clear, unambiguous statements of support for Jane Doe and/or PZ for writing the OP:
154
I should have separated them, but it was really rare for one to be mentioned without the other.

Posts with clear, unambiguous statements of support for the Horde and/or Caine:
110
Again, I should have separated the two, but again it was rare that Caine would be mentioned without a nod to the rest of the Horde.

You are not alone Jane Doe, nor are you PZ.

The number of people came forward with stories of rape and abuse in their lives:
43

That number is the most significant. It shows that the crack in dam is spreading, and that you’ve created a space where people feel safe enough to tell of their awful experiences. It shows that we will not take the fucking Catholic Church’s lead on how to handle the issue of sexual misconduct within this movement.

We will not be silenced.

We will not be stopped.

Fear our voices, fear our anger you misogynist fucks. Your days of easy privilege are over.

NEVER FORGIVE

NEVER FORGET

WE ARE LE HORDE xD xD xD

EXPECT US!!!11!@@#

Also how autistic do you have to be to go through the enormous shitpile that is The Grenade Thread and manually count posts? These people truly do live in their own little world.

Cold wrote:The cringefest of Clenched Tentacle Salutes and Cookies continues:

Listening to “Bricks” by Rise Against.

“We’re setting the fires to light the way
We’re burning it all to begin again
With hope in our hearts
And bricks in our hands
We sing for change”

Seems appropriate.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-NzNIcCoJjsk/U ... B1%5D.jpeg

Guest wrote:Yeah, big vodka is gonna win against Putin's repressive cleptocracy. Keep dreaming and lashing out though. As long as it makes you feel better.

Cold wrote:

That number is the most significant. It shows that the crack in dam is spreading, and that you’ve created a space where people feel safe enough to tell of their awful experiences. It shows that we will not take the fucking Catholic Church’s lead on how to handle the issue of sexual misconduct within this movement.

Mykeru wrote:

Cunning Punt wrote: Yeah, I know, I was yanking the chains of the cognoscenti Incidentally I remember various non-privileged Horde people discussing their favorite single malts on Pharyngula once, with one genius stating that it should only only be drunk with spring water from the source used to make the mash.

Well, you know, water has memory. Hey, that would make a great premise of a pseudoscience.

JackRayner wrote:
I'm leaning towards "LibelGate". Maybe we should set up a poll.

Guest wrote:

Cold wrote:

lunacy

NEVER FORGIVE

NEVER FORGET

WE ARE LE HORDE xD xD xD

EXPECT US!!!11!@@#

Also how autistic do you have to be to go through the enormous shitpile that is The Grenade Thread and manually count posts? These people truly do live in their own little world.

Christ, who posted that?

LurkerPerson wrote:Yeah, the whole "boycott everything russian" thing is pretty dumb. Do you boycott everything plastic or anything that runs on petrol? Boycott electricity, so many plants run on russian gas and oil. No need to even bring up all the muslim theocracies, their views on gay rights and the way so many of them are propped up by oil sales.

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:

John Greg wrote:Matty C said (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 41#p118841):

Neither Elvis, nor Stevie Ray, nor the Wilsons recorded other people's songs but gave themselves credit for writing those songs.

Well, that's sort of not quite true. Beginning a year or two into his extraordinary fame, Elvis was given 50:50 co-writer publishing credit on all the songs he recorded, even though he had quite literaly absolutely nothing to do with the writing of the songs -- such credit contributed enormously to his eventual massive wealth. Giving Elvis the co-writer credit was the only way song writers could get him to record their work.

That's very interesting. I'm guessing this was after Elvis became huge. Do you know, was this a common practice?

fwiw:

Elvis_presley_hound_dog45.JPG

Also fwiw:

A list of some of the songs Zep stole from other artists:


"Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" - A folk song by Anne Bredon, this was originally credited as "traditional, arranged by Jimmy Page," then "words and music by Jimmy Page," and then, following legal action, "Bredon/Page/Plant."
"Black Mountain Side" - uncredited version of a traditional folk tune previously recorded by Bert Jansch.
"Bring It On Home" - the first section is an uncredited cover of the Willie Dixon tune (as performed by the imposter Sonny Boy Williamson).
"Communication Breakdown" - apparently derived from Eddie Cochran's "Nervous Breakdown."
"Custard Pie" - uncredited cover of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down," with lyrics from Sleepy John Estes's "Drop Down Daddy."
"Dazed And Confused" - uncredited cover of the Jake Holmes song (see The Above Ground Sound Of Jake Holmes).
"Hats Off To (Roy) Harper" - uncredited version of Bukka White's "Shake 'Em On Down."
"How Many More Times" - Part one is an uncredited cover of the Howlin' Wolf song (available on numerous compilations). Part two is an uncredited cover of Albert King's "The Hunter."
"In My Time Of Dying" - uncredited cover of the traditional song (as heard on Bob Dylan's debut).
"The Lemon Song" - uncredited cover of Howlin' Wolf's "Killing Floor" - Wolf's publisher sued Zeppelin in the early 70s and settled out of court.
"Moby Dick" - written and first recorded by Sleepy John Estes under the title "The Girl I Love," and later covered by Bobby Parker.
"Nobody's Fault But Mine" - uncredited cover of the Blind Willie Johnson blues.
"Since I've Been Lovin' You" - lyrics are the same as Moby Grape's "Never," though the music isn't similar.
"Stairway To Heaven" - the main guitar line is apparently from "Taurus" by Spirit.
"White Summer" - uncredited cover of Davey Graham's "She Moved Through The Fair."
"Whole Lotta Love" - lyrics are from the Willie Dixon blues "You Need Love."

http://www.warr.org/zep.html

Oh, I’m already getting tons of rape accusations and all kinds of stories told about me right now.

The thing is, and why I have zero concerns about them, is that none of them are plausible.

I first encountered things like feminism and social justice largely through the atheist scene – I came of age reading Skepchick, Butterflies and Wheels and Greta Christina’s Blog – and I think it’s valuable, vital in fact, to view our movement through those kinds of frameworks. I’m not convinced, though, that it’s enough to switch between discourses as I’ve found myself doing; to blog on atheism some days and queerness others. The most exciting thoughts I’ve had in skepticism have been listening to Pragna Patel, Sikivu Hutchinson or Natalie Reed, in whose work secularity and social justice collide and complete, coherent modes of thinking germinate which speak to both.

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:

John Greg wrote:Matty C said (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 41#p118841):

Neither Elvis, nor Stevie Ray, nor the Wilsons recorded other people's songs but gave themselves credit for writing those songs.

Well, that's sort of not quite true. Beginning a year or two into his extraordinary fame, Elvis was given 50:50 co-writer publishing credit on all the songs he recorded, even though he had quite literaly absolutely nothing to do with the writing of the songs -- such credit contributed enormously to his eventual massive wealth. Giving Elvis the co-writer credit was the only way song writers could get him to record their work.

That's very interesting. I'm guessing this was after Elvis became huge. <trim>

Tapir wrote:

Cold wrote:

That number is the most significant. It shows that the crack in dam is spreading, and that you’ve created a space where people feel safe enough to tell of their awful experiences. It shows that we will not take the fucking Catholic Church’s lead on how to handle the issue of sexual misconduct within this movement.

So you'll be contacting the police immediately then, yes?

Didn't think so.

bovarchist wrote:OK, I'm skipping the last two pages of comments. Did I miss anything important?

welch wrote:
common knowledge, annnnnd....who cares?

Nor do I care how many times heart ripped off other people. Or did you think that riff in "Barracuda" was original? or how many people have ripped off bo diddley over and over, or Gary Bonds?

Rock music more than almost any other genre is theft writ large. It's always been that way, and I doubt it will change.

However, it's also what they do with it.

It’s especially important that you don’t walk past the standard set by the powerful men in the movement.--The Zed

Humphrey_Hedgehog wrote:

bovarchist wrote:OK, I'm skipping the last two pages of comments. Did I miss anything important?

Yes.

Jan Steen wrote:This tells you all you need to know about Alex Gabriel.

I first encountered things like feminism and social justice largely through the atheist scene – I came of age reading Skepchick, Butterflies and Wheels and Greta Christina’s Blog – and I think it’s valuable, vital in fact, to view our movement through those kinds of frameworks. I’m not convinced, though, that it’s enough to switch between discourses as I’ve found myself doing; to blog on atheism some days and queerness others. The most exciting thoughts I’ve had in skepticism have been listening to Pragna Patel, Sikivu Hutchinson or Natalie Reed, in whose work secularity and social justice collide and complete, coherent modes of thinking germinate which speak to both.

Just another pretentious, third rate moron who can't write and who can safely be ignored.

bovarchist wrote:

JackRayner wrote:
I'm leaning towards "LibelGate". Maybe we should set up a poll.

My vote is for Shermergate. Or is it Shermergate 2? I have trouble keeping track sometimes. Anyway, there's already a shermergate hashtag on Twitter, so it seems logical.

Cold wrote:

That number is the most significant. It shows that the crack in dam is spreading, and that you’ve created a space where people feel safe enough to tell of their awful experiences. It shows that we will not take the fucking Catholic Church’s lead on how to handle the issue of sexual misconduct within this movement.

bovarchist wrote:

JackRayner wrote:
I'm leaning towards "LibelGate". Maybe we should set up a poll.

My vote is for Shermergate. Or is it Shermergate 2? I have trouble keeping track sometimes. Anyway, there's already a shermergate hashtag on Twitter, so it seems logical.

Rystefn wrote: That remark was a joke. If you can't handle people jokes about your politics, please kill yourself before you start killing other people.

Southern wrote:

welch wrote:
common knowledge, annnnnd....who cares?

Nor do I care how many times heart ripped off other people. Or did you think that riff in "Barracuda" was original? or how many people have ripped off bo diddley over and over, or Gary Bonds?

Rock music more than almost any other genre is theft writ large. It's always been that way, and I doubt it will change.

However, it's also what they do with it.

To be fair, welch, some of the artists Zeppelin ripped off where Black blues musicians, during a time racism was still very well and strong. If a popular band like Zeppelin called attention to those musicians, maybe tht would have helped mitigate the stygma that "those damn niggers fools are good-for-nothing" that the honkies cultivated back then.

Then again, it could have made things worse, or it could have made fucking difference at all. I don't know. My point is, ripping off is, in the immortal words of Ke$ha, "a mega-douche" move. Yeah, I said it, and I WILL NOT retract myself, even if you send me a C&D letter. I'll burn the bridges with the skeptic movement by stating this controversial opinion, and you cannot stop me.

(Besides, good music is good, ripped off or nothing. Also, Led Zeppelin DID polish some of those songs, and made them into something memorable. It wouldn't hurt them to at least give credit to where credit's due).

Tribble wrote:

Cold wrote:

That number is the most significant. It shows that the crack in dam is spreading, and that you’ve created a space where people feel safe enough to tell of their awful experiences. It shows that we will not take the fucking Catholic Church’s lead on how to handle the issue of sexual misconduct within this movement.

Actually, they're not the same at all. The Catholic Church was quite well aware of the problem and chose (wrongly) to handle it internally, thus leading to pedophile priests being moved around and victims silenced. Eventually some people started suing. That is, they took their accusations to court and WON on the facts. Over time, that spurred more-and-more suits, which victims kept winning. Eventually the proven allegations and outrage broke the dam and the Catholic Church not only paid out, but their reputation, based on the proven facts, was damaged.

OTOH, while nobody denies things like rape and sexual harassment occur, this 'trial-by-innuendo-and-rumor' is nothing more than a high-tech lynching done by a group of thugs. Thugs who not only refuse to entertain the possibility of Shermer's innocence, but refuse to even respect the rights and personhood of others to remain open-minded and demand that either proof is put on or the lurid claims are retracted as unproven defamation.

Ape+lust wrote:PZ just recruited a new FtBer, Alex Gabriel.

http://www.freethoughtblogs.com/godlessness

Southern wrote:

welch wrote:
common knowledge, annnnnd....who cares?

Nor do I care how many times heart ripped off other people. Or did you think that riff in "Barracuda" was original? or how many people have ripped off bo diddley over and over, or Gary Bonds?

Rock music more than almost any other genre is theft writ large. It's always been that way, and I doubt it will change.

However, it's also what they do with it.

To be fair, welch, some of the artists Zeppelin ripped off where Black blues musicians, during a time racism was still very well and strong. If a popular band like Zeppelin called attention to those musicians, maybe tht would have helped mitigate the stygma that "those damn niggers fools are good-for-nothing" that the honkies cultivated back then.

Then again, it could have made things worse, or it could have made fucking difference at all. I don't know. My point is, ripping off is, in the immortal words of Ke$ha, "a mega-douche" move. Yeah, I said it, and I WILL NOT retract myself, even if you send me a C&D letter. I'll burn the bridges with the skeptic movement by stating this controversial opinion, and you cannot stop me.

(Besides, good music is good, ripped off or nothing. Also, Led Zeppelin DID polish some of those songs, and made them into something memorable. It wouldn't hurt them to at least give credit to where credit's due).

another lurker wrote:Southern wrote:

Good ol' Proffe, may the spirits bless you and your loved ones. Such irrelevance... I mean, what kind of website is he visiting? I haven't seen a website with a Flash intro in, what, eight years or so? Since Apple said "fuck this shit" for Flash on iOS, nobody is using it as a integral part of their websites, anyway.

Fashion sites, probably. If he is a snobby east coaster as BarnOwl has suggested, he is probably visiting all of the 'let us impress you with our fancy flash intros' online stores:P

Angry_Drunk wrote:The only scandal that ever needed the "-gate" suffix is Water-fucking-gate. If you call anything a "-gate" you should be beaten about the kidneys until you piss blood.

bovarchist wrote:
Restaurant sites seem to use it a lot too. I think Cracked did an article about it. Meanwhile, I've really got to stop read the Pit and do something constructive, like actually watch Downfall.

Nerd of Redhead wrote:

There isn’t a shred of evidence that should be sufficient to convince people either way.

Spoken as a true hyperskeptic. There is testimony by several women which back the rape MO of MS. But then you don’t think a woman’s testimony is evidence. A court of law would beg to differ.

Angry_Drunk wrote:The only scandal that ever needed the "-gate" suffix is Water-fucking-gate. If you call anything a "-gate" you should be beaten about the kidneys until you piss blood.

katamari Damassi wrote:

Humphrey_Hedgehog wrote:

bovarchist wrote:OK, I'm skipping the last two pages of comments. Did I miss anything important?

Yes.

There's quite the discussion over whether the Monkees wrote their own songs.

Roofied_Baboon wrote:Coming to think of it...PZ's supporters were quick to swallow the idea that Shermer is a rapist.

Seems they have an axe to grind...

I am on the side of right in the face of all those who are comfortable doing wrong. I am on the side of the voices who have been stilled by those who take being able to abuse as their right. I am on the side of all those who have been hurt by those who believe they have a right to twist their power and by those who believe they have the right to other people’s bodies. I refuse to back down when confronted by all those who howl in favour of the status quo.

To all those harmed, I stand with you. To all those standing firm in the face of wrongdoing, I stand with you.

Guest wrote:I think the fundamental error from the start was that people mistook atheism for a left wing movement. That's why all these social justice loons thought we were naturally their allies, and were so upset when they turned out to be wrong.

The goal isn’t to determine whether or not Shermer is guilty. The goal is to report a traumatic experience someone had with Shermer, in the hopes of warning other women. The goal is the reduce the potential for rape.

Shermer’s guilt or innocence isn’t what’s at stake here. Women not being raped is.