Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

Old subthreads
AndrewV69
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6696

Post by AndrewV69 »

Latest Ally Fogg:

Zimmerman, Martin and patriarchal misandry: An intersectional analysis
http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013 ... -analysis/

(no comments from the penny section please)

DW Adams
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6697

Post by DW Adams »

I can't believe that nobody knows who Tom Verrana is.


I'll give you a hint:

It's Rook Hawkins, the self taught biblical scholar who 'translated the entire bible from Greek' and former RSS member.

Carrier apparently doesn't know this.

debaser71
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6698

Post by debaser71 »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:In other news, I scored 30 and so apparently I fail as an Aspie. For those interested, Take The AQ Test:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

246
What a stupid "test". They might as well ask, "are you aspie?".

I can score whatever I want on that test because the questions are super fucking obvious.

Aneris
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6699

Post by Aneris »

debaser71 wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:In other news, I scored 30 and so apparently I fail as an Aspie. For those interested, Take The AQ Test:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
What a stupid "test". They might as well ask, "are you aspie?".

I can score whatever I want on that test because the questions are super fucking obvious.
I scored as 11, faithfully answering. Though I often feel these tests want estimations that are often up to my moods and I might then tend to (in case of “slightly” answers) go for what I “like to think of myself”, where I'm skeptical if this estimation would hold up against really measuring. Could be, could be not.

Mykeru
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6700

Post by Mykeru »

Regarding the Autism-Spectrum Quotient

Agree: 12,22,23,43,46: 1 point
Disagree: 11,14,24,30,37: 1 point

Score: 10
I included the break-down for you Aspies who like that kind of thing.

I find that many of you are far more socially 'tarded and generally fucked up than me to be both disturbing and hilarious.

free thoughtpolice
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6701

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Apples wrote:Speaking of autism: what you never wanted - a chance to see Grimalkin and Kassiane from A+ (with sweaty PZ in the background) talk about neurodivergence for an hour:

[youtube]NWXGUCkxZ6E[/youtube]
It wasn't that bad, I listened to the whole hour.
The sexuality thing with Greta and crew on the other hand was kind of creepy, I didn't last 5 minutes trying to listen to that one.
One thing I completely agree with Kassiane with; bleach enemas are probably not a good treatment for autism.

Mykeru
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6702

Post by Mykeru »

Aneris wrote:
debaser71 wrote:
AndrewV69 wrote:In other news, I scored 30 and so apparently I fail as an Aspie. For those interested, Take The AQ Test:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
What a stupid "test". They might as well ask, "are you aspie?".

I can score whatever I want on that test because the questions are super fucking obvious.
I scored as 11, faithfully answering. Though I often feel these tests want estimations that are often up to my moods and I might then tend to (in case of “slightly” answers) go for what I “like to think of myself”, where I'm skeptical if this estimation would hold up against really measuring. Could be, could be not.
I answered as honestly as I could. I attribute my score to being a sweet and lovable person despite kicking ass generally, but mostly due to my being 1. A mathematical idiot who couldn't remember a phone number if you tattooed it on my glans and then made me drink lots of water and 2. Not being inflexible when it comes to my routine. Not having anything like a routine and being basically disorganized helps, as does my understanding that there is nothing planned that doesn't just go tits up immediately. Going batshit when things go wrong is for Bridezillas and people who beat their cars at the side of the road. Oh, yeah, and Rainmen.

Southern
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6703

Post by Southern »

dresq wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Can't wait for Myers to dye[].
Next on FTB: "Phil Giordana issues a badly-spelled threat on PZ Myer's life!"
Should I quotemine Phil again on my signature, so he now looks like an homicidal maniac? I was thinking of something like:
Can't wait for Myers to dye [sic] (...) red
- Phil Giordana, notorious Slymepitter, on a poor-spelled threat to kill PZ Myers and drink his blood.

[youtube]v=vSfrbqCQr78[/youtube]

Southern
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6704

Post by Southern »

Oh, botched the embed of the codifiyng moment on quote-mining:

[youtube]vSfrbqCQr78[/youtube]

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6705

Post by Badger3k »

I got a 13 on that test, trying to answer honestly.

Found this on Very Demotivational, and immediately thought of our SJW friends:

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7677798400/hF528DBC5/

I also have to wonder at the multi-colored hair phenomenon. I'm not sure the (possibly) armchair diagnosis that people who do that are unhappy with their appearance or with who they are. I know a few people who do that, and I am not sure that is correct, just from a very small sample size. But I can see it with some of these people. I also remember the old joke about people being non-conformist by following a crowd (something like "I'm so unique I'm going to do the same thing as all these other people").

FrankGrimes
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6706

Post by FrankGrimes »

Jan Steen wrote:
Slither wrote:As a dues-paying member of Procrastinators-R-Us, I decided to take a quick look at the academic work of Richard Carrier, and what I found was far worse than even my meager expectations.

You might recall from up-thread it being mentioned that Richard Carrier was extremely upset that someone put a link to Stephanie Fisher's critique of his book on his Wikipedia page. He edited his page to remove this, and wrote an "official response" (one wonders what an unofficial response would look like). Fisher's critique is more than 8000 words long, but I decided to look further into one specific matter.

Richard Carrier claims that the field of New Testament Studies has "collapsed into a chaos of opinions" about Jesus, and cites one Tom Verenna as an authority who claims this. Fisher states that Verenna is simply unqualified to make such a statement about an entire academic field of study. This upsets Carrier, who spends a good part of his "official response" defending Verenna. Verenna is "completely competent", according to Carrier, has "considerable skill" and Fisher's remarks are an insult to a scholar in the field. Moreover, according to Carrier, Verenna has "published a chapter on this subject in a peer reviewed academic book"!

Well! Certainly one should have wonderful credentials to be able to criticize an entire field of study! So, let's take a look at the Tom Verenna who Carrier views as an expert.

Verenna's chapter in a "peer reviewed academic book" is described on Carrier's Amazon.com store, and his CV can be found here. (In case the gentle reader is concerned that Verenna's CV might be out-of-date, notice that the CV lists the book, so must be at least as recent as the book.) And what do we find? We find that Tom Verenna, who according to Carrier is eminently qualified to critique the whole field of New Testament Studies, is a sophomore of Northampton Community College. And before that, was a student at none other than Montgomery Community College! So, yes, this scholar of Carrier's is just an undergrad at a local community college.

But, you might cry, Carrier said that this book was a "peer reviewed academic book"! So, let's take a look at it. Notice that one of the two editors is none other than Tom Verenna. So, Verenna's chapter appeared in the book he himself edited! Not to worry, Carrier cries in one of his other blog posts, the other contributers to this book "peer-reviewed" Verenna's chapter! (Why does Carrier know so much about how this book was written?) So, according to Carrier, the way peer review works is that an editor chooses people to contribute to a book, who then approve of the editor's own chapter in said book. No conflict of interest there! Isn't peer review wonderful!

Now, knowing you pytters, I'm sure none of you are at all skeptical about Carrier, Verenna or this supposed academic book at this point. I am, however, a horrible horrible person, so I decided to take a look at the press who'd print an "academic" book edited by an undergrad with such an interesting definition of peer-review.

Verenna's book was printed by Equinox Press, and you can find their Author Form for Book Proposals here. Notice that his form doesn't ask for text or sample chapters. It does ask for biographical information, but only "for preparing the jacket copy and the title page of the book, and as a basis for catalogue and leaflet entries and press releases." It asks for a brief bio sketch for the jacket copy, and a short blurb for advertising purposes. And it does ask for the names of "reviewers", because they "may wish to send the draft manuscript" to reviewers "to improve the final draft of the manuscript". So, in other words, this "scholarly" press thinks it is really, really important to have the jacket copy written immediately, and getting a copy of the actual book or, for that matter, a critical review of the contents, not so much.

So, this is what Carrier views as a "peer reviewed academic book", and the credentials of an eminent scholar in his chosen field of study. It turns out, moreover, that chapters of this book are used as sources in his own book. Isn't Carrier just an amazing scholar!
It wouldn't surprise me if this Tom Verenna was one of the 'major professors' who reviewed Carrier's forthcoming book on the historicity of Jeebus.

Carrier is the Dunning-Kruger effect personified. Two years ago he wrote a post in which he proposed a radical new idea in physics in order to resolve the EPR paradox. The only catch was that he didn't know enough physics to put his idea in mathematical form, so he called on all physicists to examine his proposal and to let him know if it made any sense.

It is all a bit sad, really. But if schadenfreude is your thing, you may want have a peek at his post.

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... cists.html

The opening paragraph displays all the symptoms of the crackpot:
Over the years I have been mulling a problem in metaphysics: the ontological mysteries of Quantum Mechanics. I have been developing a theory in this regard (see, for example, The Ontology of Time and my unresolved alternatives in Sense and Goodness without God, pp. 98-99, III.4.1), and now, informed by some recent discoveries and publications in the sciences (and finally a stronger understanding of EPR experiments), I am able to write up a proposal intelligibly enough for an actual physicist to evaluate it.
Thank you. Entertaining and informative. The last quote is gold! Lots of lulz. Ta.

Mykeru
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6707

Post by Mykeru »

free thoughtpolice wrote: The sexuality thing with Greta and crew on the other hand was kind of creepy, I didn't last 5 minutes trying to listen to that one.
Would it have been better if Greta's mic was muted so you couldn't hear her pendulous meat-flaps ululating?

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7446093568/hC161A697/

FrankGrimes
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6708

Post by FrankGrimes »

Mykeru wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: The sexuality thing with Greta and crew on the other hand was kind of creepy, I didn't last 5 minutes trying to listen to that one.
Would it have been better if Greta's mic was muted so you couldn't hear her pendulous meat-flaps ululating?

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7446093568/hC161A697/
Yeah, pretty funny but when you're ready to do a video about it let me know.

I do like your vidz... juss sayin'.

Gefan
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Location: In a handbasket, apparently.

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6709

Post by Gefan »

Jan Steen wrote: ...Carrier is the Dunning-Kruger effect personified. Two years ago he wrote a post in which he proposed a radical new idea in physics in order to resolve the EPR paradox. The only catch was that he didn't know enough physics to put his idea in mathematical form, so he called on all physicists to examine his proposal and to let him know if it made any sense.

It is all a bit sad, really. But if schadenfreude is your thing, you may want have a peek at his post.

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... cists.html

The opening paragraph displays all the symptoms of the crackpot:
Over the years I have been mulling a problem in metaphysics: the ontological mysteries of Quantum Mechanics. I have been developing a theory in this regard (see, for example, The Ontology of Time and my unresolved alternatives in Sense and Goodness without God, pp. 98-99, III.4.1), and now, informed by some recent discoveries and publications in the sciences (and finally a stronger understanding of EPR experiments), I am able to write up a proposal intelligibly enough for an actual physicist to evaluate it.
Carrier reminds me of the opening lines of Douglas Adams' "Shada".

"At the age of five, Skagra, decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant".

With their hipster glasses, attention-junkie dye-jobs, and intellectual egomania these people are the distillation of the "Fox News liberal".

Cunning Punt
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6710

Post by Cunning Punt »

Mykeru wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: The sexuality thing with Greta and crew on the other hand was kind of creepy, I didn't last 5 minutes trying to listen to that one.
Would it have been better if Greta's mic was muted so you couldn't hear her pendulous meat-flaps ululating?

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7446093568/hC161A697/
Is that something like an hour-long queef?

I scored 19 BTW, I'm sure you were all wondering.

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6711

Post by Badger3k »

Well, look at what you've done! Cromunist is packing it in.

First Loftus, now Crommie? Maybe Ed and Peez can give his slot to half-fish. That will definitely fill the hole that this will leave.

(He is still going to be blogging, sporadically, at his old blog that no one will go to, but he's giving his spot at FfTB to someone else. Too bad he's not getting out of healthcare as well - that would probably make a lot of people sleep easier, or maybe stay healthier.)

DW Adams
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6712

Post by DW Adams »

Slither wrote:As a dues-paying member of Procrastinators-R-Us, I decided to take a quick look at the academic work of Richard Carrier, and what I found was far worse than even my meager expectations.

You might recall from up-thread it being mentioned that Richard Carrier was extremely upset that someone put a link to Stephanie Fisher's critique of his book on his Wikipedia page. He edited his page to remove this, and wrote an "official response" (one wonders what an unofficial response would look like). Fisher's critique is more than 8000 words long, but I decided to look further into one specific matter.

Richard Carrier claims that the field of New Testament Studies has "collapsed into a chaos of opinions" about Jesus, and cites one Tom Verenna as an authority who claims this. Fisher states that Verenna is simply unqualified to make such a statement about an entire academic field of study. This upsets Carrier, who spends a good part of his "official response" defending Verenna. Verenna is "completely competent", according to Carrier, has "considerable skill" and Fisher's remarks are an insult to a scholar in the field. Moreover, according to Carrier, Verenna has "published a chapter on this subject in a peer reviewed academic book"!

Well! Certainly one should have wonderful credentials to be able to criticize an entire field of study! So, let's take a look at the Tom Verenna who Carrier views as an expert.

Verenna's chapter in a "peer reviewed academic book" is described on Carrier's Amazon.com store, and his CV can be found here. (In case the gentle reader is concerned that Verenna's CV might be out-of-date, notice that the CV lists the book, so must be at least as recent as the book.) And what do we find? We find that Tom Verenna, who according to Carrier is eminently qualified to critique the whole field of New Testament Studies, is a sophomore of Northampton Community College. And before that, was a student at none other than Montgomery Community College! So, yes, this scholar of Carrier's is just an undergrad at a local community college.

But, you might cry, Carrier said that this book was a "peer reviewed academic book"! So, let's take a look at it. Notice that one of the two editors is none other than Tom Verenna. So, Verenna's chapter appeared in the book he himself edited! Not to worry, Carrier cries in one of his other blog posts, the other contributers to this book "peer-reviewed" Verenna's chapter! (Why does Carrier know so much about how this book was written?) So, according to Carrier, the way peer review works is that an editor chooses people to contribute to a book, who then approve of the editor's own chapter in said book. No conflict of interest there! Isn't peer review wonderful!

Now, knowing you pytters, I'm sure none of you are at all skeptical about Carrier, Verenna or this supposed academic book at this point. I am, however, a horrible horrible person, so I decided to take a look at the press who'd print an "academic" book edited by an undergrad with such an interesting definition of peer-review.

Verenna's book was printed by Equinox Press, and you can find their Author Form for Book Proposals here. Notice that his form doesn't ask for text or sample chapters. It does ask for biographical information, but only "for preparing the jacket copy and the title page of the book, and as a basis for catalogue and leaflet entries and press releases." It asks for a brief bio sketch for the jacket copy, and a short blurb for advertising purposes. And it does ask for the names of "reviewers", because they "may wish to send the draft manuscript" to reviewers "to improve the final draft of the manuscript". So, in other words, this "scholarly" press thinks it is really, really important to have the jacket copy written immediately, and getting a copy of the actual book or, for that matter, a critical review of the contents, not so much.

So, this is what Carrier views as a "peer reviewed academic book", and the credentials of an eminent scholar in his chosen field of study. It turns out, moreover, that chapters of this book are used as sources in his own book. Isn't Carrier just an amazing scholar!
Knowing who Tom Verrana is makes this soooo fucking hilarious to me. I can't wait to see how Carrier handles it.

DW Adams
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6713

Post by DW Adams »

Rook fucking Hawkins...LMAO

sacha
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6714

Post by sacha »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Sorry, bit on the angry side today. My internet subsciption is still not in effect, temperatures at home are near 30°C even with the AC on, and I have two days to finish preparing the flat for my brother-in-law, his wife, and their 2 years old kid.

I think I need a drink...

Try 45º & no a/c. (Norther California.) It does make one cranky. We've been making sangria of late.

clearly not SF 62F/16.6C overcast with a nice breeze. I love SF

and I scored 22

Mykeru
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6715

Post by Mykeru »

FrankGrimes wrote:
Mykeru wrote:
free thoughtpolice wrote: The sexuality thing with Greta and crew on the other hand was kind of creepy, I didn't last 5 minutes trying to listen to that one.
Would it have been better if Greta's mic was muted so you couldn't hear her pendulous meat-flaps ululating?

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7446093568/hC161A697/
Yeah, pretty funny but when you're ready to do a video about it let me know.

I do like your vidz... juss sayin'.
1. An entire video on Greta's vibrating flaps would be, by definition, monotonous.

2. By definition also a violation of YouTube's TOS for "appropriate content".

I know no one believes this, but I have a handful of videos in various stages of completion. I'm simply not linear, I bounce back and forth. I also may have adult onset ADD. I may be channeling Francis Ford Coppola.

You know who I envy? This people who just do a Dillahunty Brain-Dump blathering without rhyme or reason for ten minutes and call it a day, or just talk over some floating text and a couple pictures and call it done. I'm easily bored and can easily bore myself. If I'm working on a video and I'm boring myself, or, more likely, became too enamored of blather I should really cut out -- then why on earth would someone who isn't me be entertained by any of it?

This morning I was cutting some footage from my bike helmet cam from where I had to drop my car off at an auto body place and bike back along some trails that brought my by where I used to live when married. I realized a VO on that footage, explaining the tense relationship between biking and my ex-wife who wouldn't let me by a high-end bike, would be a good way to segue into the bit I wrote about not being enamored with MGTOW and their marriage hard-luck stories.

That's how it works: You smack together two seemingly unrelated things, like A Day in the Life and you've got something which might be good but, free-standing was definitely crap.

I fear crap. I fear being Matt Dillahunty. I fear not taking that extra step to make sure a musical cue lands just so on the visuals.

You know what'll make me happy to do a one-week dump of these vids when completed because, trust me, their skeletons and dis-articulated bits are just staring at me. Fucking things.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6716

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Badger3k wrote:Well, look at what you've done! Cromunist is packing it in.

First Loftus, now Crommie? Maybe Ed and Peez can give his slot to half-fish. That will definitely fill the hole that this will leave.

(He is still going to be blogging, sporadically, at his old blog that no one will go to, but he's giving his spot at FfTB to someone else. Too bad he's not getting out of healthcare as well - that would probably make a lot of people sleep easier, or maybe stay healthier.)
Good riddance to the fat fucking clown.

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6717

Post by katamari Damassi »

Badger3k wrote:Well, look at what you've done! Cromunist is packing it in.

First Loftus, now Crommie? Maybe Ed and Peez can give his slot to half-fish. That will definitely fill the hole that this will leave.

(He is still going to be blogging, sporadically, at his old blog that no one will go to, but he's giving his spot at FfTB to someone else. Too bad he's not getting out of healthcare as well - that would probably make a lot of people sleep easier, or maybe stay healthier.)
Can't believe that Patheos didn't snag him. After all, they took Evertard and he was the worst blogger of the lot IMHO.

bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6718

Post by bhoytony »

Skeeve wrote:Rook fucking Hawkins...LMAO
Shhh.. not so loud. You'll attract that other boring cunt from the RRS forum. We've only just got him to shut up.


P.S. Rook Hawkins....Hahahaha!

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6719

Post by debaser71 »

Regarding that test.

I can't answer honestly because I know their "agenda". I know what they are driving at. So for me to answer "honestly" I sort of have to try and un-know what I know...and that's inherently dishonest.

And like others have said, I could try and answer honestly but depending on my mood, and current situation, I'd answer differently. Also, the questions are filled with ambiguity. For example when they ask about a "party"...there are a lot of kinds of parties. And the library? The assumption is a library is a quiet calm place. Not crowded. ... Yeah right. So do I answer 'honestly" or do I interpret the question in a certain way as to answer the gist of the question instead of the reality of my situation? etc Fun, interesting, but completely bogus. IMO.

Aneris
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6720

Post by Aneris »

Mykeru wrote:[...] That's how it works: You smack together two seemingly unrelated things, like A Day in the Life and you've got something which might be good but, free-standing was definitely crap. [...]
Exactly. What you wrote is very similar for me. Including forgetting numbers. But I am very good in seeing patterns, trends and tendencies, which always was more important when I learned e.g. history. The dates and numbers I only memorized the hard way so I have some reference points, but this reversed way worked out very good (people learn numbers then seem to forgot what they are for, and then forget them after some time, too). Myers-Briggs (no, I don't believe in it, but it's useful on occasion) probably makes you an ENTP. Your online persona is also that of a trickster character, in some way.

Here are, in that spirit, TWO talks.

[youtube]OLHh9E5ilZ4[/youtube]

[youtube]f9rtmxJrKwc[/youtube]

John Greg
That's All Folks
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FTBCon Participation

#6721

Post by John Greg »

Regarding FTBCon participation, a few folks here posted pics of participation figures showing 112 participants following a list of 111 speakers -- or something approximately like that. Of course, as it turned out, those screenshots were taken before the event actually began, and so far no one has posted any screenys showing participation counts from after the event actually got going. Cats got tongues? Hostile narratives skewed?

Did anyone take screens of those figures mid-conference? Care to post them?

Also, I noticed that in fact many Pitters actually did follow some of the discussions, contrary to the general meme beforehand.

Can any Pitters give a fair review of what they witnessed? I saw none of it, so while I would love to say it was all just goldfish in a bowl of mirrors, I am getting the impression that in fact it may have been rather successful with some good discussions.

Do we not have the intellectual integrity and honesty to point out good stuff where it happens, even if it's on the network of evil?

Anyone know how it all went? One way or the other?

Are we just becoming too much of a kind of collective of naysaying seers who then clam up when the prognostications go south? I hope not. In the early days of the Pit, people often came back and stated when one of their claims or prognostications turned out to be wrong. I do not seem to see that so much anymore. Now it's just a lot of talk shit and go shtum.

Oh, and I scored 22, but the test is obviously shit, as has been pointed out: too vague; too ambiguous; totally lacking an allowance for neutral responses; too mood-based, etc.

Mykeru
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Re: FTBCon Participation

#6722

Post by Mykeru »


Tfoot

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6723

Post by Tfoot »

For the attendance of FTBcon, I would guess that most of their talks never made it into three digits for viewership.

Their welcome by dave silverman is on pz myers yt page and barely has 300 views.

As for the rest of it, I looked briefly at their facebook, and typically each talk would be 'liked' by one or two people (ghost town). The twitter feed seemed equally dead.

Most of the blog posts pz myers wrote on the subject had less than 10 comments.

From the ratings on videos that Myers etc forgot to disable the ratings on, they were getting venomfangx style ratings.
http://vidstatsx.com/pzamyers/youtube-channel
(click the videos tab).

I only watched the intro. It was boring. 10 minutes of faceplant was enough, after that I had better things to do.

Cunning Punt
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Posts: 1335
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6724

Post by Cunning Punt »

Skeeve wrote:
Slither wrote:As a dues-paying member of Procrastinators-R-Us, I decided to take a quick look at the academic work of Richard Carrier, and what I found was far worse than even my meager expectations.

You might recall from up-thread it being mentioned that Richard Carrier was extremely upset that someone put a link to Stephanie Fisher's critique of his book on his Wikipedia page. He edited his page to remove this, and wrote an "official response" (one wonders what an unofficial response would look like). Fisher's critique is more than 8000 words long, but I decided to look further into one specific matter.

Richard Carrier claims that the field of New Testament Studies has "collapsed into a chaos of opinions" about Jesus, and cites one Tom Verenna as an authority who claims this. Fisher states that Verenna is simply unqualified to make such a statement about an entire academic field of study. This upsets Carrier, who spends a good part of his "official response" defending Verenna. Verenna is "completely competent", according to Carrier, has "considerable skill" and Fisher's remarks are an insult to a scholar in the field. Moreover, according to Carrier, Verenna has "published a chapter on this subject in a peer reviewed academic book"!

Well! Certainly one should have wonderful credentials to be able to criticize an entire field of study! So, let's take a look at the Tom Verenna who Carrier views as an expert.

Verenna's chapter in a "peer reviewed academic book" is described on Carrier's Amazon.com store, and his CV can be found here. (In case the gentle reader is concerned that Verenna's CV might be out-of-date, notice that the CV lists the book, so must be at least as recent as the book.) And what do we find? We find that Tom Verenna, who according to Carrier is eminently qualified to critique the whole field of New Testament Studies, is a sophomore of Northampton Community College. And before that, was a student at none other than Montgomery Community College! So, yes, this scholar of Carrier's is just an undergrad at a local community college.

But, you might cry, Carrier said that this book was a "peer reviewed academic book"! So, let's take a look at it. Notice that one of the two editors is none other than Tom Verenna. So, Verenna's chapter appeared in the book he himself edited! Not to worry, Carrier cries in one of his other blog posts, the other contributers to this book "peer-reviewed" Verenna's chapter! (Why does Carrier know so much about how this book was written?) So, according to Carrier, the way peer review works is that an editor chooses people to contribute to a book, who then approve of the editor's own chapter in said book. No conflict of interest there! Isn't peer review wonderful!

Now, knowing you pytters, I'm sure none of you are at all skeptical about Carrier, Verenna or this supposed academic book at this point. I am, however, a horrible horrible person, so I decided to take a look at the press who'd print an "academic" book edited by an undergrad with such an interesting definition of peer-review.

Verenna's book was printed by Equinox Press, and you can find their Author Form for Book Proposals here. Notice that his form doesn't ask for text or sample chapters. It does ask for biographical information, but only "for preparing the jacket copy and the title page of the book, and as a basis for catalogue and leaflet entries and press releases." It asks for a brief bio sketch for the jacket copy, and a short blurb for advertising purposes. And it does ask for the names of "reviewers", because they "may wish to send the draft manuscript" to reviewers "to improve the final draft of the manuscript". So, in other words, this "scholarly" press thinks it is really, really important to have the jacket copy written immediately, and getting a copy of the actual book or, for that matter, a critical review of the contents, not so much.

So, this is what Carrier views as a "peer reviewed academic book", and the credentials of an eminent scholar in his chosen field of study. It turns out, moreover, that chapters of this book are used as sources in his own book. Isn't Carrier just an amazing scholar!
Knowing who Tom Verrana is makes this soooo fucking hilarious to me. I can't wait to see how Carrier handles it.
It gets even more lulzworthy..............

http://thomasverenna.blogspot.com/

I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks very interesting. :lol:

Cunning Punt
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Posts: 1335
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6725

Post by Cunning Punt »

Skeeve wrote:Rook fucking Hawkins...LMAO
YES! I just learned it myself. Rook Hawkins formerly of the Rational Response Squad! :o

[youtube]9lnFobYlsF4[/youtube]

Say this isn't so... if this gets out this will make Carrier the absolute laughing he was always destined to be.

dogen (as anon)

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6726

Post by dogen (as anon) »

Cunning Punt wrote:
Skeeve wrote:
Slither wrote:As a dues-paying member of Procrastinators-R-Us, I decided to take a quick look at the academic work of Richard Carrier, and what I found was far worse than even my meager expectations.

You might recall from up-thread it being mentioned that Richard Carrier was extremely upset that someone put a link to Stephanie Fisher's critique of his book on his Wikipedia page. He edited his page to remove this, and wrote an "official response" (one wonders what an unofficial response would look like). Fisher's critique is more than 8000 words long, but I decided to look further into one specific matter.

Richard Carrier claims that the field of New Testament Studies has "collapsed into a chaos of opinions" about Jesus, and cites one Tom Verenna as an authority who claims this. Fisher states that Verenna is simply unqualified to make such a statement about an entire academic field of study. This upsets Carrier, who spends a good part of his "official response" defending Verenna. Verenna is "completely competent", according to Carrier, has "considerable skill" and Fisher's remarks are an insult to a scholar in the field. Moreover, according to Carrier, Verenna has "published a chapter on this subject in a peer reviewed academic book"!

Well! Certainly one should have wonderful credentials to be able to criticize an entire field of study! So, let's take a look at the Tom Verenna who Carrier views as an expert.

Verenna's chapter in a "peer reviewed academic book" is described on Carrier's Amazon.com store, and his CV can be found here. (In case the gentle reader is concerned that Verenna's CV might be out-of-date, notice that the CV lists the book, so must be at least as recent as the book.) And what do we find? We find that Tom Verenna, who according to Carrier is eminently qualified to critique the whole field of New Testament Studies, is a sophomore of Northampton Community College. And before that, was a student at none other than Montgomery Community College! So, yes, this scholar of Carrier's is just an undergrad at a local community college.

But, you might cry, Carrier said that this book was a "peer reviewed academic book"! So, let's take a look at it. Notice that one of the two editors is none other than Tom Verenna. So, Verenna's chapter appeared in the book he himself edited! Not to worry, Carrier cries in one of his other blog posts, the other contributers to this book "peer-reviewed" Verenna's chapter! (Why does Carrier know so much about how this book was written?) So, according to Carrier, the way peer review works is that an editor chooses people to contribute to a book, who then approve of the editor's own chapter in said book. No conflict of interest there! Isn't peer review wonderful!

Now, knowing you pytters, I'm sure none of you are at all skeptical about Carrier, Verenna or this supposed academic book at this point. I am, however, a horrible horrible person, so I decided to take a look at the press who'd print an "academic" book edited by an undergrad with such an interesting definition of peer-review.

Verenna's book was printed by Equinox Press, and you can find their Author Form for Book Proposals here. Notice that his form doesn't ask for text or sample chapters. It does ask for biographical information, but only "for preparing the jacket copy and the title page of the book, and as a basis for catalogue and leaflet entries and press releases." It asks for a brief bio sketch for the jacket copy, and a short blurb for advertising purposes. And it does ask for the names of "reviewers", because they "may wish to send the draft manuscript" to reviewers "to improve the final draft of the manuscript". So, in other words, this "scholarly" press thinks it is really, really important to have the jacket copy written immediately, and getting a copy of the actual book or, for that matter, a critical review of the contents, not so much.

So, this is what Carrier views as a "peer reviewed academic book", and the credentials of an eminent scholar in his chosen field of study. It turns out, moreover, that chapters of this book are used as sources in his own book. Isn't Carrier just an amazing scholar!
Knowing who Tom Verrana is makes this soooo fucking hilarious to me. I can't wait to see how Carrier handles it.
It gets even more lulzworthy..............

http://thomasverenna.blogspot.com/

I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks very interesting. :lol:
This would all be fine, had Carrier not addressed these issues almost a month ago:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3951

I'm afraid I just can't get too excited about any of this...

Jan Steen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6727

Post by Jan Steen »

Badger3k wrote:Well, look at what you've done! Cromunist is packing it in.

First Loftus, now Crommie? Maybe Ed and Peez can give his slot to half-fish. That will definitely fill the hole that this will leave.
His blog filled a much-needed hole.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6728

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

sacha wrote:clearly not SF 62F/16.6C overcast with a nice breeze. I love SF

and I scored 22
That score makes sense -- it must be your "fascination with numbers" that caused you to add an extra decimal place when converting temps. :lol:

Steersman
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6729

Post by Steersman »

FrankGrimes wrote:
Jan Steen wrote:
Slither wrote:As a dues-paying member of Procrastinators-R-Us, I decided to take a quick look at the academic work of Richard Carrier, and what I found was far worse than even my meager expectations.

You might recall from up-thread it being mentioned that Richard Carrier was extremely upset that someone put a link to Stephanie Fisher's critique of his book on his Wikipedia page. He edited his page to remove this, and wrote an "official response" (one wonders what an unofficial response would look like). Fisher's critique is more than 8000 words long, but I decided to look further into one specific matter. ...
<snip>
<snip>
Carrier is the Dunning-Kruger effect personified. Two years ago he wrote a post in which he proposed a radical new idea in physics in order to resolve the EPR paradox. The only catch was that he didn't know enough physics to put his idea in mathematical form, so he called on all physicists to examine his proposal and to let him know if it made any sense.

It is all a bit sad, really. But if schadenfreude is your thing, you may want have a peek at his post.

http://richardcarrier.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... cists.html

The opening paragraph displays all the symptoms of the crackpot:
Thank you. Entertaining and informative. The last quote is gold! Lots of lulz. Ta.
I’ll agree than Carrier is a bit of a dickhead, and his use of Bayesian statistics to justify his “mythian” hypothesis about Jesus looks a little suspect – Hoffmann and Fisher seeming to have a point or two.

However, I don’t think it reasonable to throw that many stones at him for his “radical new idea in physics”. Considering that there are some dozen different scientific interpretations of quantum mechanics, and, as Feynman argued, no one really knows why it is the way it is, it seems like speculation is a game that everyone can at least kibitz about. Now if Carrier was insisting that his interpretation was the revealed truth as people like Chopra apparently do then one might reasonably call him a crank. But just advancing a “proposal” or hypothesis hardly seems to justify that.

FWIW, my AQ score was 33, although there is probably a fairly wide error-band to it, as to everyone else’s.

Jan Steen
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Re: FTBCon Participation

#6730

Post by Jan Steen »

John Greg wrote:Regarding FTBCon participation, a few folks here posted pics of participation figures showing 112 participants following a list of 111 speakers -- or something approximately like that. Of course, as it turned out, those screenshots were taken before the event actually began, and so far no one has posted any screenys showing participation counts from after the event actually got going. Cats got tongues? Hostile narratives skewed?

Did anyone take screens of those figures mid-conference? Care to post them?

Also, I noticed that in fact many Pitters actually did follow some of the discussions, contrary to the general meme beforehand.

Can any Pitters give a fair review of what they witnessed? I saw none of it, so while I would love to say it was all just goldfish in a bowl of mirrors, I am getting the impression that in fact it may have been rather successful with some good discussions.

Do we not have the intellectual integrity and honesty to point out good stuff where it happens, even if it's on the network of evil?

Anyone know how it all went? One way or the other?

Are we just becoming too much of a kind of collective of naysaying seers who then clam up when the prognostications go south? I hope not. In the early days of the Pit, people often came back and stated when one of their claims or prognostications turned out to be wrong. I do not seem to see that so much anymore. Now it's just a lot of talk shit and go shtum.

Oh, and I scored 22, but the test is obviously shit, as has been pointed out: too vague; too ambiguous; totally lacking an allowance for neutral responses; too mood-based, etc.
I guess most pitters punished the mission creeps in the cruellest way possible: by ignoring them.

Anyway, according to http://lanyrd.com/2013/ftbcon/ 141 people attended, while there were 115 speakers. You do the maths.

John Greg
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6731

Post by John Greg »

Jan said:
Anyway, according to http://lanyrd.com/2013/ftbcon/ 141 people attended, while there were 115 speakers. You do the maths.
Thanks for that. Maybe it was only goldfish in a bowl of mirrors after all -- as it should be. I just thought it odd (and potentially telling) that no one had yet posted such an image from when the thing was actually underway.

Kareem
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Posts: 437
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:37 pm

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6732

Post by Kareem »

AndrewV69 wrote:Latest Ally Fogg:

Zimmerman, Martin and patriarchal misandry: An intersectional analysis
http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013 ... -analysis/

(no comments from the penny section please)
So the extra fear and suspicion black men face for being men is patriarchy and joining with the group of people who think all men you don't know should be considered potential rapists will help with that. Seems legit.

bhoytony
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Posts: 3017
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:56 am

Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6733

Post by bhoytony »


John Greg
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6734

Post by John Greg »

So, according to the lanyrd list/stats, there were 115 speakers, and 141 followers, and of the 141 "known followers", 91 were listed as speakers (50 non-speakers).

I guess the stats are kind of funny, but it seems like some of the speakers were listed as followers, and others were not. That strikes as rather odd. Does anyone know how the lanyrd stuff works? Do you have to meet certain criteria to be listed as a follower? Is it possible that there were a few/some/several followers who are not listed?

So, that would seem to mean that of the big wide world of FfTB's self-claimed millions of followers, only 50 actually followed the thing? Also, I see almost none of the regular FfTB commentariat listed as followers -- unless they are all going under other names/nyms. Hmm. Curious.

I know it doesn't really matter; I'm just curious about this stuff. I mean, many of us here keep predicting the ultimate downfall of FfTB, and keep pointing out the declining following -- while they keep claiming a growth in followers.

ERV
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6735

Post by ERV »

Hate the 'AQ test'.

"I prefer to do things with others rather than on my own."
Every group project ever: One person does all the work while everyone else does nothing (at best), or actively interferes at worst (IM HELPING! DERP!!!). Yeah, sign me up for a group project. *shudder*

"I frequently get so strongly absorbed in one thing that I lose sight of other things."
Its called 'being focused'.

"I often notice small sounds when others do not." "I tend to notice details that others do not." "I don't usually notice small changes in a situation or a person's appearance."
Its called 'being aware of your surroundings'.

"I find social situations easy." "I enjoy social chitchat." "I find it hard to make new friends."
I have nothing to talk about with most people. Im not interested in the things they are interested in. When I was younger, I would compensate for this by watching several television shows at once (talk shows and 'The Soup' were perfect for catching up with pop culture). Put me around scientists and atheists, Im fine. Put me around normal people and Im not happy.

"I am good at social chitchat." "I enjoy social occasions."
WE GET IT. Introvert = Aspie to the test writers. Fantastic.

"I tend to have very strong interests, which I get upset about if I can't pursue."
Who doesnt get mad if they cant pursue things that interest them? wtf? Tell Tiger Woods he cant play golf anymore. If he gets mad--> ASPIE!

"I notice patterns in things all the time."
Im a product of numerous math teachers. Patterns = shortcuts. Look for the pattern, save time and effort.

"It does not upset me if my daily routine is disturbed." "I enjoy doing things spontaneously." "I like to carefully plan any activities I participate in."
I got shit to do, okay? I have to plan things to fit what I want to do in, in the most efficient manner. 'Spontaneity' pisses me off. People/Things screwing up my routine piss me off.

"When I talk on the phone, I'm not sure when it's my turn to speak."
The only person I talk to on the phone is my mother. Everyone else I Skype/Google/text. What a weird question.

Stupid test.

Angry_Drunk
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Posts: 458
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6736

Post by Angry_Drunk »

You know how to really tell that you're a 'spergetard? If you fucking 'sperge out over a fucking test on fucking wired.com that purports to measure your level of 'sperginess.

Jan Steen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6737

Post by Jan Steen »

dogen (as anon) wrote:
Cunning Punt wrote:
It gets even more lulzworthy..............

http://thomasverenna.blogspot.com/

I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks very interesting. :lol:
This would all be fine, had Carrier not addressed these issues almost a month ago:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3951

I'm afraid I just can't get too excited about any of this...
He has hardly 'addressed' these issues. Take also a look at the link that Slither provided:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1739

If we are to believe Carrier, Verenna is a serious scholar.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Assburger Test

#6738

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Seriously, I got a 13 on the test, but my answers were all one extreme or another -- I focus on details, but also do well in social interactions.

As a trainer, I've become very attuned to minute changes in body language & the environment. People are amazed when I tell them, "your horse is about to do X"; they never saw it coming and can't figure out how I did. Yet reading people's expressions & guessing their state of mind (which is the same task, really) is absent from the syndrome of autism.

I've always had extra-range (tested) in both hearing & peripheral vision. I hear things before even my dogs, like the front gate opening a 1/4 mile* away, or the pumas** they barked at all last night. I know my horses not just by their whinnies, but by their smell and the sound of their hoof-falls.

Background noise & imagery (animated ads, for example) drive me nuts. I tried to watch the Chelsea Lately Show at my GF's house, and went into one of those sensory-overload seizures japanese children get from watching cartoons.

I can't remember birthdays worth a damn.


In Animals in Translation, Temple Grandin describes all animals as 'autistic' after a fashion. I think I have some of the traits typically described as autistic, which help me work with animals.

I must be Autistic-Queer.


* .40234 km;
** "mountain lion", "catamount", "panther cat", "cougar"; not "MILF", "Cougar!", "PUMA"

Dave
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Posts: 1975
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6739

Post by Dave »

Steersman wrote:However, I don’t think it reasonable to throw that many stones at him for his “radical new idea in physics”. Considering that there are some dozen different scientific interpretations of quantum mechanics, and, as Feynman argued, no one really knows why it is the way it is, it seems like speculation is a game that everyone can at least kibitz about. Now if Carrier was insisting that his interpretation was the revealed truth as people like Chopra apparently do then one might reasonably call him a crank. But just advancing a “proposal” or hypothesis hardly seems to justify that.
Reading over his little foray into physics (a field that I have a little training in), I am reminded of a quote that has been variously attributed: Carrier's ideas are both true and original. Unfortunately, those that are original are not true and those that are true are not original.

The correspondence received by most University physics departments will attest to the number of laymen who believe they have discovered something new in physics. The vast majority of them are utterly wrong, but believe themselves both capable and qualified to tell those who have dedicated their lives to the matter that they know the subject better. The fact is that the physics is the math. You can read about GR all you want, but until you have derived the equations yourself, you are not going to understand it. Similarly for QM. Carrier deserves ridicule for his conceit that he can throw out a half-assed philosophy argument and expect physicists to critique it, not for having a dumb theory.
FWIW, my AQ score was 33, although there is probably a fairly wide error-band to it, as to everyone else’s.
I took it several times, not trying to direct my answers, but trying different "interpretations" of the questions. My scores varies from 9 to 16. For whatever thats worth in assessing the error-band.

dogen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6740

Post by dogen »

Jan Steen wrote:
dogen (as anon) wrote:
Cunning Punt wrote:
It gets even more lulzworthy..............

http://thomasverenna.blogspot.com/

I haven't had a chance to check this out in detail, but it looks very interesting. :lol:
This would all be fine, had Carrier not addressed these issues almost a month ago:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/3951

I'm afraid I just can't get too excited about any of this...
He has hardly 'addressed' these issues. Take also a look at the link that Slither provided:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/1739

If we are to believe Carrier, Verenna is a serious scholar.
Nah, still can't get stiff about this. In the link Slither provides, Carrier doesn't hid the fact that Verenna is a student. I agree that the 'peer review' which Carrier discusses is very different from that practiced elsewhere (e.g., in my own field of astrophysics), but I'm not seeing some grant attempt to pass Verenna off as something he's not.

ERV
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6741

Post by ERV »

Angry_Drunk wrote:You know how to really tell that you're a 'spergetard? If you fucking 'sperge out over a fucking test on fucking wired.com that purports to measure your level of 'sperginess.
'Superspurg'.

dogen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6742

Post by dogen »

Angry_Drunk wrote:You know how to really tell that you're a 'spergetard? If you fucking 'sperge out over a fucking test on fucking wired.com that purports to measure your level of 'sperginess.
I strongly object to your abbreviation of Asperger's syndrome as "'spergers". It completely misses the awesomeness that is "arse-burgers".

Steersman
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6743

Post by Steersman »

ERV wrote:Hate the 'AQ test'.
<snip>
"I notice patterns in things all the time."
Im a product of numerous math teachers. Patterns = shortcuts. Look for the pattern, save time and effort.

<snip>
"When I talk on the phone, I'm not sure when it's my turn to speak."
The only person I talk to on the phone is my mother. Everyone else I Skype/Google/text. What a weird question.

Stupid test.
So. Aspie AND curmudgeon? ;-)

But, in passing relative to your “product of numerous math teachers”, as it is one of my abiding interests if not a monomania, although I’m not much more than a dilettante, the mathematician Jacob Bronowski [The Ascent of Man, BBC documentary and book] said, with maybe some hyperbole, that mathematics was the greatest metaphor imaginable. And you might enjoy this paper titled The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics.

Aneris
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Re: FTBCon Participation

#6744

Post by Aneris »

John Greg wrote:Regarding FTBCon participation, a few folks here posted pics of participation figures showing 112 participants following a list of 111 speakers -- or something approximately like that. Of course, as it turned out, those screenshots were taken before the event actually began, and so far no one has posted any screenys showing participation counts from after the event actually got going. Cats got tongues? Hostile narratives skewed?

Did anyone take screens of those figures mid-conference? Care to post them?

Also, I noticed that in fact many Pitters actually did follow some of the discussions, contrary to the general meme beforehand.

Can any Pitters give a fair review of what they witnessed? I saw none of it, so while I would love to say it was all just goldfish in a bowl of mirrors, I am getting the impression that in fact it may have been rather successful with some good discussions.

Do we not have the intellectual integrity and honesty to point out good stuff where it happens, even if it's on the network of evil?

Anyone know how it all went? One way or the other? [...]
I did point out above, with video, that the one on “Critical Thinking” was very good. People who read along — as it seems — often get a skewed perception, too (not just this incident, but also different opinions on topic x).

Yesterday I watched the one on “Atheism in Pop Culture” and found it very bland. I had it running in the background while doing the chores, otherwise I wouldn't have seen it through the end. Rebecca Watson was the best on the panel (no sarcasm). But it was overall just too weak, and her contributions weren't special enough to change the overall impression. Hemant Mehta, Ashley F. Miller and Tauriq Moosa sometimes gave some good cues. JT Eberhardt said near nothing and came across as a douche, which may be influenced by the only two texts I've ever read of him. There wasn't a good proportion between “interesting things” and “saying something” for Heina Dadabhoy, and the host, Ian “Crommunist” Cromwell, had no sense of pacing and moderating. He also displayed a weird sense of humour, like introducing the panelists as the “ugliest people imaginable”. When people like him really act like that spontaneously, while pontificating about social warrior political correctness, I really do see Projection as a major force of them.

Factually, they just enumerated a few instances of atheists in pop culture and the most interesting idea was the Flat Earth Atheist where apparently Watson at least has read the TVTtropes page as a preparation. Just throwing out a few quick ideas (stream-of-conciousness):
  • Big Ban Theory or the relation of geekiness, science, atheism and religion. You can go in all kinds of directions, but with staying close to the headline (I don't know what concept they had for the panel), they could explore the “Mad Scientist” or the socially inept atheist (geek). You have the portrayal of Sheldon Cooper, and you can then discuss what atheism/religion has to do with being interested in “Things rather than People” and the portrayal of atheists as anti-social (they briefly touch on it with Dr. House, but could have explored more why Atheists are seen as nihilistic curmurgeons or socially inept, are religions more social?).
  • Another direction would be, how it comes that (atheist) geek culture is full of supernatural entities, magic, deities and so on. Escapism is a key word here, and how religion maybe is just like a 2000+ year old transmedia franchise and religious people are really nothing different than rabid fans, who fight over details in their fandom.
  • Another trope with atheist in (pop) culture is the “playing god” idea, that goes back to Satan himself, who was, in a sense, the prime disbeliever. The mad scientist is just one facette that plays with this satanic idea. When theatre became secular again (early modern period), the role of the devil in the mystery plays went to the fool (or jester), and traces of the same concepts manifested in the Devil's Advocate, i.e. someone who is allowed to formally disobey authority and to speak their minds, with the idea that they either keep a ruler sane in case of the fool (since everyone else probably lied to them at all times out of fear), or to have someone who is a skeptic when assessing whether someone should be canonized, introduced in the 16th century. This translates to pop culture in many different tropes, a version of the Faustian Bargain (in a strict sense they aren't atheists, but in pop culture were a supreme divine entities exists, it's the closest you get), the Dr. Frankenstein style Mad Scientists, and generally topics around hubris and humbleness (the humble option would be to “obey” the other to become “godlike” etc.)
  • Dogma by Kevin Smith. The movie is by no means important, nor does it have to be featured in a panel like this, it just could have been used to discuss various topics on Atheism, or critique of religion in popular media. They mentioned Life of Brian and Simpsons a bit, but didn't explore it.
  • There was also nothing on Straw Vulcans or skepticism in popular media (except the Flat-Earth Atheist). Julia Galef was on the Critical Thinking panel, but she would have been good here, since she apparently already used that trope in her presentation (which I haven't seen yet).
  • I like the Mentalist, who is depicted as a former fraudster who claimed to have to psychic powers, but a tragic incident makes him rethink his ways. Throughout the series, he often comes across “believers” who either believe he really has powers. He also comes across other “psychics” who still claim to have special abilities with some interesting interaction. Religion (and Atheism) also comes up a few times. When I remember correctly, there is one episode where someone really wants to believe in angels and ghosts and the like, and despite him telling them that they don't exist, they insist but are also emotionally very dependent. He then “plays along” to solve the crime. This is an interesting moral dilemma: what to do with people who really need a comforting belief? (and how this is portrayed in media). Again, I didn't expect that they discuss this show or this character, they could have picked other examples, but they never went into anything substantial.

    /braindump

dogen
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6745

Post by dogen »

I was just reading the reviews of Greta's new book on Amazon.com, and came across this:
Bending is excellently written -- and it's not the usual one-dimensional porn I've encountered on the internet (you know what I mean: the "Tab A goes into Slot B" kind of porn that reads like an Ikea manual, with lube). It's the kind of porn that explores what people are actually thinking and feeling, and it's stronger for it.

My only reservation, and it's not a criticism, is that it's got a focused theme. This is a book of stories about dom/sub relations and spanking, and it doesn't match up well with my personal kinks (which I will not discuss, except to note that the word "tentacle" only appears ONCE in the entire book, and then as a metaphor). But if it does align with your interests, expect quality arousal.
An expert on Internetz Pr0n who likes tentacles? Who can this be, I ask, after washing the newly-upchucked vomit from my mouth...

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6746

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Cunning Punt wrote:
Skeeve wrote:Rook fucking Hawkins...LMAO
YES! I just learned it myself. Rook Hawkins formerly of the Rational Response Squad! :o

[youtube]9lnFobYlsF4[/youtube]

Say this isn't so... if this gets out this will make Carrier the absolute laughing he was always destined to be.

The Rookie does have a certain stage presence. And I'm convinced that he's read Price & Mason with comprehension. But "Wayne's World Does Sachkritik" is no substitute for real scholarship.

Quibbles:
* Josephus was not a "forgery"; Josephus contains "interpolations":

* Don't do a Jesus Myth 101 but not introduce Josephus, much less give a passing mention to "the Testimonium";

* Bigger (though hardly better) scholars that The Rookie have made the mistake of conflating a debunking of the miraculous Jesus with one of the historical Jesus.

John Greg
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6747

Post by John Greg »

Aneris, thanks for that. Your posts and ideas are always interesting to read. And given that English is clearly not your first language, you really do state yourself very well.

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6748

Post by Badger3k »

John Greg wrote:
I know it doesn't really matter; I'm just curious about this stuff. I mean, many of us here keep predicting the ultimate downfall of FfTB, and keep pointing out the declining following -- while they keep claiming a growth in followers.
Sounds like Scientology, the Raelians, and other religious groups that shore up their numbers to give the appearance of growth while their numbers decline. No wonder they keep trying to add new blogs (although the rarely come up in their main combined feed). They are the Catholic Church of atheists - hemorrhaging followers right and left while telling each other they are growing madly.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6749

Post by Steersman »

Dave wrote:
Steersman wrote:However, I don’t think it reasonable to throw that many stones at him for his “radical new idea in physics”. Considering that there are some dozen different scientific interpretations of quantum mechanics, and, as Feynman argued, no one really knows why it is the way it is, it seems like speculation is a game that everyone can at least kibitz about. Now if Carrier was insisting that his interpretation was the revealed truth as people like Chopra apparently do then one might reasonably call him a crank. But just advancing a “proposal” or hypothesis hardly seems to justify that.
Reading over his little foray into physics (a field that I have a little training in), I am reminded of a quote that has been variously attributed: Carrier's ideas are both true and original. Unfortunately, those that are original are not true and those that are true are not original.

The correspondence received by most University physics departments will attest to the number of laymen who believe they have discovered something new in physics. The vast majority of them are utterly wrong, but believe themselves both capable and qualified to tell those who have dedicated their lives to the matter that they know the subject better.
Know what you mean about the “University physics departments”; I think Carl Sagan talked about that – or maybe Leon Lederman in his The God Particle – and had pointed to a case of someone so disturbed that he (frequently a “he”) wound up killing the person who had rejected his “theory”.
Dave wrote:The fact is that the physics is the math. You can read about GR all you want, but until you have derived the equations yourself, you are not going to understand it. Similarly for QM. Carrier deserves ridicule for his conceit that he can throw out a half-assed philosophy argument and expect physicists to critique it, not for having a dumb theory.
If he had actually “expected” a critique then maybe that might justify some “ridicule”, but I still don’t see how it was beyond the pale to present his “proposal”. Although I haven’t actually read it so maybe his pretentiousness had crossed a line. But some physicist could have used it as a "teaching opportunity".
Dave wrote:
FWIW, my AQ score was 33, although there is probably a fairly wide error-band to it, as to everyone else’s.
I took it several times, not trying to direct my answers, but trying different "interpretations" of the questions. My scores varies from 9 to 16. For whatever thats worth in assessing the error-band.
That’s an average of 12.5 +/- 3.5 or +/- 28.0%. Which, assuming the same percentage range, for my score that means 23.76 to 42.24. Maybe there’s some justification for the criteria, but the test looks a little iffy.

Percentage
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6750

Post by Percentage »

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... d-kingdom/

Nothing really to say, except that PZ seems obsessed with the word "privilege". I've seen it cropping up in non-SJW posts pretty regularly. Dude needs to take a breather.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6751

Post by Dave »

Steersman wrote:
Dave wrote:The fact is that the physics is the math. You can read about GR all you want, but until you have derived the equations yourself, you are not going to understand it. Similarly for QM. Carrier deserves ridicule for his conceit that he can throw out a half-assed philosophy argument and expect physicists to critique it, not for having a dumb theory.
If he had actually “expected” a critique then maybe that might justify some “ridicule”, but I still don’t see how it was beyond the pale to present his “proposal”. Although I haven’t actually read it so maybe his pretentiousness had crossed a line. But some physicist could have used it as a "teaching opportunity".
Shrug. I expect we will have to agree to disagree. That said, a few of the phrases he used that indicated to me the conceit I describe above are as follows:
To all who review and critique it, you can annotate it in MS Word and email the annotated copy back to me
Really? He expects those who critique it to mark it up rather than just give him a few pointers?
I’m hoping for constructive critical comment from as many physicists as possible.
He wants multiple physicists to provide "constructive" feedback for an idea he cant be bothered to research beyond Science News.
Ideally, a physicist who reads this will be willing, and offer, to co-write a final draft of this article, putting in any references, mathematics, and other details and terminological fixes that would render it even a passable scientific paper.
Thats a lot to ask.
I welcome any patient explanation to that effect from an actual expert (and it will be helpful if you identify your credentials).
Mere peons are not qualified to critique Carrier. Only actual experts may, once Carrier deigns to consider your credentials.

Yes, Im reading between the lines. Yes, you can bend over backwards (would that be in Greta's book?) to interpret each statement charitably. But taken as a whole, I think his blogpost and the intro to his "paper" reek of conceit and entitlement as he forays into a field that the actual work indicates he has done no significant research into.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6752

Post by sacha »

debaser71 wrote:Regarding that test.

I can't answer honestly because I know their "agenda". I know what they are driving at. So for me to answer "honestly" I sort of have to try and un-know what I know...and that's inherently dishonest.

And like others have said, I could try and answer honestly but depending on my mood, and current situation, I'd answer differently. Also, the questions are filled with ambiguity. For example when they ask about a "party"...there are a lot of kinds of parties. And the library? The assumption is a library is a quiet calm place. Not crowded. ... Yeah right. So do I answer 'honestly" or do I interpret the question in a certain way as to answer the gist of the question instead of the reality of my situation? etc Fun, interesting, but completely bogus. IMO.

yes, I agree, I tried my best. A big party or a library are not my type of thing. I can do a dinner party once in a while, and then I'm exhausted from socialising. I'd rather be home on the internet with my dog snuggled up, like now

sacha
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6753

Post by sacha »

Aneris wrote:
Mykeru wrote:[...] That's how it works: You smack together two seemingly unrelated things, like A Day in the Life and you've got something which might be good but, free-standing was definitely crap. [...]
Exactly. What you wrote is very similar for me. Including forgetting numbers. But I am very good in seeing patterns, trends and tendencies, which always was more important
before mobile phones were ubiquitous, I was a number memorising master. A very long time ago when I had a stack of credit cards (I don't do credit now), I knew all the numbers and expiration dates, phone numbers were a breeze. There is this test I was given as a child - a long string of numbers which I had to repeat backwards, it was easy for me. At the same time, I was dreadful with anything regarding maths. Now I can't remember a bloody thing.

I do remember my first boyfriend's telephone number. Italian kid - bad boy. I was 6 he was 7

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6754

Post by Steersman »

Dave wrote:
Steersman wrote:
Dave wrote:The fact is that the physics is the math. You can read about GR all you want, but until you have derived the equations yourself, you are not going to understand it. Similarly for QM. Carrier deserves ridicule for his conceit that he can throw out a half-assed philosophy argument and expect physicists to critique it, not for having a dumb theory.
If he had actually “expected” a critique then maybe that might justify some “ridicule”, but I still don’t see how it was beyond the pale to present his “proposal”. Although I haven’t actually read it so maybe his pretentiousness had crossed a line. But some physicist could have used it as a "teaching opportunity".
Shrug. I expect we will have to agree to disagree. That said, a few of the phrases he used that indicated to me the conceit I describe above are as follows: ...
No, I think I can concede the point. :-)

sacha
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Re: FTBCon Participation

#6755

Post by sacha »


I'm actually quite concerned about why that dog's tongue is so swollen.

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