Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[JackSkeptic]

They are full of emotion. That's fine, some people are more emotional than others. However, if you get rid of all the people who question them, they never have any reason to question their own emotions, so they just rage on from one topic to the next and rarely add anything of value other than being Really Mad at Someone who Did Something!

Yes, which is why I consider sites such as Atheism Plus to be damaging to the users there. People who have issues do not need telling they are special flowers who are ruined for life. Wallowing in self pity is not a way to find any sort of contentment and feeding off pure emotion is unhealthy.

[JackSkeptic]

Just in case anyone has any delusions that Nugent's 'Atheist Ireland' organization is some kind of neutral broker, you only have to look at the main picture on their facebook page.
I recognize Peezus, Watson and Aron Ra.

http://i.imgur.com/LW7MntZ.jpg

Nugent's just sucking up to the D-listers.

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

[windy]

There was a discussion on Twitter on whether BHA should offer t-shirt styles for women, and I agree with what Watson says there- it's a marketing decision, so why not.



Benson chimes in that "there's no need for a special women's style" because "we can wear baggy T shirts" and "the marketing aspect is at war with the political". Really?? At war? :doh:

[Michael K Gray]

Just in case anyone has any delusions that Nugent's 'Atheist Ireland' organization is some kind of neutral broker, you only have to look at the main picture on their facebook page.
I recognize Peezus, Watson and Aron Ra.

http://i.imgur.com/LW7MntZ.jpg

Nugent's just sucking up to the D-listers.

Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that if Atheist Ireland last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'That was their finest 10 minutes'

[Apples]

They are full of emotion. That's fine, some people are more emotional than others. However, if you get rid of all the people who question them, they never have any reason to question their own emotions, so they just rage on from one topic to the next and rarely add anything of value other than being Really Mad at Someone who Did Something!

Yes, which is why I consider sites such as Atheism Plus to be damaging to the users there. People who have issues do not need telling they are special flowers who are ruined for life. Wallowing in self pity is not a way to find any sort of contentment and feeding off pure emotion is unhealthy.

Unless you are feeding on the delicious delicious rage tears of a social justice warrior who is shaking and crying about something they saw on the internet.

[Michael K Gray]

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

Are you able to relate one of the best things that he has "done", please?
I trust that it is not as lightweight as politely questioning the existence of Bigfoot, or YHWY, or the Tooth fairy?
Mmm. Perhaps he re-displayed the fact of evolution to a bunch of yank retards?
My daughter could do that when she was 7.
Or 6.

Does stuff?
At least my daughter didn't waste fossil fuels boosting her ego.
And... Aaron's betrothed is a bit of a problem in the skeptical department. What has he "done" about that issue, eh?
Nothing.
He has avoided the mud-slinging on that topic too.
To his and her short-term benefit, but not ours.

[franc]

Somewhat apropos of which, I was thinking earlier this morning about Chas C Peterson caviling about “tribalism” on one of Nugent’s posts, and his comparisons between that of the Pit and that of FfTBs. I think he is failing to differentiate between group-think imposing opinion on slaves, on the one hand, and, on the other, free and autonomous individuals thinking and reaching the same conclusion.

The whole tribalism discussion is a total distractor and a waste of time, the same as the arguments about who is the most moral.

The whole of Nugent's approach missed what is important about this, the clash of ideas. That's what my last post there was trying to convey but it's like pissing in the wind as people wander off to discuss irrelevances instead of sticking to the whole point of disagreement.

The analogy I made very early into this crazyness is that it is a situation of the insect hive versus the autonomous mammal. I think it is a valid one. Of course insects, being insects, are incapable of comprehending it. It's not so much a clash of ideas as a clash of species.

[Dick Strawkins]

Now that Nugget's has given his advice about how we run the Slymepit, I think the least we can do is help him out in return.

For a start, lets make a suggestion on how he can involve more women in his organization.


http://i.imgur.com/Tn6FrPX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iduTXEQ.jpg

Perhaps Nugent, instead of inviting PZ Myers, inventor of the notorious 'porcupine rape' threat and known sexual harrasser of women volunteers from the audience("we'll do the sex thing later!"), might it not be an idea to use the money saved to subsidize local women who clearly have difficulty attending the conference?
The amount of money saved by not inviting PZ would probably pay for 20 women to attend.

[Lurkion]

Course, the old girl couldn't resist. In fact, I think Ophie has found her new cunt-kick:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... sentiment/
http://www.freezepage.com/1363127732ENULBVVVQY

Intriguing that the tweet which piqued her curiosity wasn't directed at her - would be even more intriguing if she has Blackford blocked/unfollowed on twitter...

She had to wait a respectable amount of time to get over her 'upset' and 'ruined life' but hey, victim points is victim points right?

Of course it's all our fault, wouldn't want to blame the poster after all who posted on an open site.

Oh fuck.

She's like a dog when you bury the dead cat. DON'T FUCKING DIG IT UP, you stupid mutt.

[Lurkion]

http://i.imgur.com/gaYAYWD.jpg

Steersman's a dick but I love him.

(Like I love dick.)

(Jk. I don't love dick, but I do love Steersman.)

[welch]

The "tramp stamp" however, in my experience says not good long term relationship material.

There might be exceptions of course, and I could be wrong also, but that particular type of tattoo is firmly associated in my mind with a lifestyle that is not conducive to a stable family life.

Any man who marries a woman with a "tramp stamp" should not be surprised if she files for divorce within ten years.

My best friend has a "tramp stamp" (we call them "tatoo" in my neck of the wood), and she has been happily married for three years. Granted, to a Dominican salsa teacher who even I find extremely sexy. I'm not really convinced tatoos say anything about a person's character.

In 'merka the 'tramp stamp' tattoo is specifically a lower-back tattoo just above the ass - but I agree I'd need to see some data on whether it actually correlates with commitment. Anecdotally, it's not just for Jersey Shore types anymore - an amazing number of women have one, conclude what you will. Maybe Becky can research this for a future talk.

Yeah. I kind of have a hard time taking "tramp stamp = only good for one night stands" seriously. Given the numbers of women with them, I don't see how that actually works out.

[Lurkion]

Course, the old girl couldn't resist. In fact, I think Ophie has found her new cunt-kick:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... sentiment/
http://www.freezepage.com/1363127732ENULBVVVQY

Intriguing that the tweet which piqued her curiosity wasn't directed at her - would be even more intriguing if she has Blackford blocked/unfollowed on twitter...

Ah, yes. Of course, when Nugget put up his post about how "slymepitters are writhing in agony about tasteless photoshop," Ophie claimed that he was "destroying her." So now she accidentally on purpose stumbled upon the dastardly image? Riiight. First she had to "stumble upon" Blackford's post (she reads his twitter because she is so interested in what he has to say), then she googled the unattributed quotation in Blackford's post (because if someone mentions Ophie she is on it like white on rice), then she perused the pit (because stalking and harassment and shock/horror) and WHOOPS clicked on a random link.... and then posted it on her own blog so her fans can feel her pain for eternity.

Well, Ophie, looks like you blew all your potential sympathy points on one post. This one's for you, Ophie:

[youtube]ism2a3KYg0c[/youtube]

THIS!

If the amount of work you have to put into being harassed exceeds the amount of work the alleged harasser puts into harassing you, it is less likely that harassment has actually occurred. Ophessional victim.

[welch]

I may be wrong about this, but wasn't the "tramp-stamp" (terrible name) originally a way that pornographers would essentially "brand" their stable of "actresses"?

Um.

no.

and where the hell did that even come from?

[Lurkion]

Luigi was held captive by the elite republican guard for 3 months. When they fled the city he used a shattered piece of glass to remove his hands and escape. He was eventually gunned down by american forces.

Hmmmm...

http://superhappycashcow.com/pic/Selene ... /luigi.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-aBz01_M6l1U/UHVM6 ... imgmax=800

Obviously Nintendo is sexist.

Yeah, original artwork was held back out of marketing and image concerns.

http://i.imgur.com/A053o5U.jpg?3

Ophelia's going to say that you photoshopped her head onto a penis. Because she doesn't understand anything that goes on in the world. Ever.

(Yes, I'm synching up to SP time).

[welch]

In 'merka the 'tramp stamp' tattoo is specifically a lower-back tattoo just above the ass

Yeah, I know what a tramp-stamp is

I call them "beer coasters". For when you're at it doggy style.

she only needs one hand at most to balance.

[Dick Strawkins]

Course, the old girl couldn't resist. In fact, I think Ophie has found her new cunt-kick:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... sentiment/
http://www.freezepage.com/1363127732ENULBVVVQY

Intriguing that the tweet which piqued her curiosity wasn't directed at her - would be even more intriguing if she has Blackford blocked/unfollowed on twitter...

She had to wait a respectable amount of time to get over her 'upset' and 'ruined life' but hey, victim points is victim points right?

Of course it's all our fault, wouldn't want to blame the poster after all who posted on an open site.

Oh fuck.

She's like a dog when you bury the dead cat. DON'T FUCKING DIG IT UP, you stupid mutt.

The comments are even worse.

Nearly all of them are some version of the old: "Do you think I'm too ugly to rape?" trap.

The trap goes something like this:

"So I'm old and ugly, am I?
Do you think I'm too old and ugly to rape?" ----------trap set

Answer 1

"Yes, you are too old and ugly to rape!"

MYSOGYNIST!!!

Answer 2

"No, you are not too old and ugly to rape!"

RAPIST!!!

[Michael K Gray]

Now that Nugget's has given his advice about how we run the Slymepit, I think the least we can do is help him out in return.
For a start, lets make a suggestion on how he can involve more women in his organization.
http://i.imgur.com/Tn6FrPX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iduTXEQ.jpg
Perhaps Nugent, instead of inviting PZ Myers, inventor of the notorious 'porcupine rape' threat and known sexual harrasser of women volunteers from the audience("we'll do the sex thing later!"), might it not be an idea to use the money saved to subsidize local women who clearly have difficulty attending the conference?
The amount of money saved by not inviting PZ would probably pay for 20 women to attend.

Exactly as I have repeatedly previously suggested.
There mus be enough talent from Trinity College Dublin alone to fill a bill 3 times over.
And that is hardly the only absolutely-world-class University within spitting distance.
Trinity, University College, DCU, DIT...
Why ship in unqualified dunderheads, when you have top-range researchers in the very city?!?!

What the fuck is the Nugent-nugget doing by shipping in, (at enormous expense), utter frauds like Watson, and 16th rank "academics" like Myers, when he has top-rank world-class scientists within a tuppenny bus ride?

For fux sake Nugent!! WAKE THE FUCK UP!

[katamari Damassi]

I've sometimes wondered if that is all we're doing, driving cash into their pockets and providing exposure. Yes, we are. But I feel if we stop they will become more of a menace to the AS community and that's more important to me. However, I largely ignore A+ now as they are irrelevant, I just go there for the entertainment.

I tend to disagree. They are bleeding. They are starting to feel the pain of falling revenue and site traffic.

I agree with this analysis. Again, the similarities with the retreat of theists online and off is not a coincidence, IMO. Just like with theists, the course of action to take is continued persistence and confrontation with evidence, in front of public audiences. There will be flare ups, but they will get more and more obviously ridiculous, and more and more people will see through them. Eventually, they will lose all credibility. It's inevitable, *if* we collectively persist in our individual actions.

We've had similar discussions elsewhere - and I'll just repeat a brief synopsis. Thinking in terms of winning or losing is wrong. This kind of nonsense has always existed and will always exist. All that happens is the volume of the noise fluctuates. The best you can ever hope for is to turn the volume down to the point it is no longer a constant nuisance. Drive them back to their campus identity politic ghettos, let them have all of the skepchick parties they want and sling as much dung as they like - as long as it doesn't bother the rest of us and we can get back to focussing on what counts: keeping the god freaks out of our lives.

This! A thousand times this! (sorry couldn't resist)

[Lurkion]

lol This one said:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-498200

"Yes, I said rape culture, dealt with it."

Uh. Everyone who's allowed to post there does deal with it. Because you're only allowed to post there if you do.

Giliel, you're an idiot. I hope you enjoyed your Slymepit mention. Go back to middle management at a supermarket where you belong. Boo-yah!

[Dick Strawkins]

I've sometimes wondered if that is all we're doing, driving cash into their pockets and providing exposure. Yes, we are. But I feel if we stop they will become more of a menace to the AS community and that's more important to me. However, I largely ignore A+ now as they are irrelevant, I just go there for the entertainment.

I tend to disagree. They are bleeding. They are starting to feel the pain of falling revenue and site traffic.

I agree with this analysis. Again, the similarities with the retreat of theists online and off is not a coincidence, IMO. Just like with theists, the course of action to take is continued persistence and confrontation with evidence, in front of public audiences. There will be flare ups, but they will get more and more obviously ridiculous, and more and more people will see through them. Eventually, they will lose all credibility. It's inevitable, *if* we collectively persist in our individual actions.

We've had similar discussions elsewhere - and I'll just repeat a brief synopsis. Thinking in terms of winning or losing is wrong. This kind of nonsense has always existed and will always exist. All that happens is the volume of the noise fluctuates. The best you can ever hope for is to turn the volume down to the point it is no longer a constant nuisance. Drive them back to their campus identity politic ghettos, let them have all of the skepchick parties they want and sling as much dung as they like - as long as it doesn't bother the rest of us and we can get back to focussing on what counts: keeping the god freaks out of our lives.

This! A thousand times this! (sorry couldn't resist)

Indeed. If you go back to some of the old notorious threads of Ladens from 2009/10 you will see the SJWs simmering in the background. They were there but were pretty powerless until Peezus decided to start using them as a way to bail out Watson during Elevatorgate.
Of course, much like vampires, once you invite them in the door they are impossible to get rid of.

[welch]

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

Are you able to relate one of the best things that he has "done", please?
I trust that it is not as lightweight as politely questioning the existence of Bigfoot, or YHWY, or the Tooth fairy?
Mmm. Perhaps he re-displayed the fact of evolution to a bunch of yank retards?
My daughter could do that when she was 7.
Or 6.

Does stuff?
At least my daughter didn't waste fossil fuels boosting her ego.
And... Aaron's betrothed is a bit of a problem in the skeptical department. What has he "done" about that issue, eh?
Nothing.
He has avoided the mud-slinging on that topic too.
To his and her short-term benefit, but not ours.

Aron Ra's is a grown-assed adult. I don't expect him to do *anything* about her. She has the right to her opinions, he has the right to his, and neither is responsible for the other. It's like I tell people who want to inquire about my wife's rates for illustration or design work. "Here is her email address. She handles her business quite well, and so is the one you should talk to."

If you're going to start bagging on him for not 'doing something' about her, then don't get annoyed when one of the FTBwats asks why you didn't "do" anything about somedumbguy or the tit posting the nekkid old lady ophelia 'shops. Same thing. Wrong when they do it, wrong if we do it.

I don't agree with his wife on the stuff she's posted, but I don't expect Aron to "correct" her. That's just a tad paternalistic.

As far as what he's done, well, I'd reckon about what you have. Spoke up about things he sees as wrong, and tried to promote the separation of church and state where he can. He's the texas state director for American Atheists, for whatever that's worth, and seems to try to stay out of the idiotic intercene warfare as much as he can.

so he's no better or worse than a lot of people.

But seriously? What's he "done" about his wife?

[welch]

On a side note, just saw a pick of Dick, sorry diminutives are WRONG, right steffy?, RICHARD Carrier on Aron Ra's page.

So very, very many things about him now make sense. Especially the hostility to all who don't agree with him.

[welch]

Now that Nugget's has given his advice about how we run the Slymepit, I think the least we can do is help him out in return.

For a start, lets make a suggestion on how he can involve more women in his organization.


http://i.imgur.com/Tn6FrPX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iduTXEQ.jpg

Perhaps Nugent, instead of inviting PZ Myers, inventor of the notorious 'porcupine rape' threat and known sexual harrasser of women volunteers from the audience("we'll do the sex thing later!"), might it not be an idea to use the money saved to subsidize local women who clearly have difficulty attending the conference?
The amount of money saved by not inviting PZ would probably pay for 20 women to attend.

If only there was a woman who had pointed out how such a thing could work.

if only.

[katamari Damassi]

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

Are you able to relate one of the best things that he has "done", please?
I trust that it is not as lightweight as politely questioning the existence of Bigfoot, or YHWY, or the Tooth fairy?
Mmm. Perhaps he re-displayed the fact of evolution to a bunch of yank retards?
My daughter could do that when she was 7.
Or 6.

Does stuff?
At least my daughter didn't waste fossil fuels boosting her ego.
And... Aaron's betrothed is a bit of a problem in the skeptical department. What has he "done" about that issue, eh?
Nothing.
He has avoided the mud-slinging on that topic too.
To his and her short-term benefit, but not ours.

Aron Ra's is a grown-assed adult. I don't expect him to do *anything* about her. She has the right to her opinions, he has the right to his, and neither is responsible for the other. It's like I tell people who want to inquire about my wife's rates for illustration or design work. "Here is her email address. She handles her business quite well, and so is the one you should talk to."

If you're going to start bagging on him for not 'doing something' about her, then don't get annoyed when one of the FTBwats asks why you didn't "do" anything about somedumbguy or the tit posting the nekkid old lady ophelia 'shops. Same thing. Wrong when they do it, wrong if we do it.

I don't agree with his wife on the stuff she's posted, but I don't expect Aron to "correct" her. That's just a tad paternalistic.

As far as what he's done, well, I'd reckon about what you have. Spoke up about things he sees as wrong, and tried to promote the separation of church and state where he can. He's the texas state director for American Atheists, for whatever that's worth, and seems to try to stay out of the idiotic intercene warfare as much as he can.

so he's no better or worse than a lot of people.

But seriously? What's he "done" about his wife?

Well he could tell her to get her own blog and stop using his to spout her nonsense. Or perhaps he could tutor her on skepticism so that she has some idea of how to practice it.

[Michael K Gray]

But seriously? What's he "done" about his wife?

His missus posts as a guest on his FTB account, appropriating his status.
That is the reason that he is 100% responsible for those particular gratuitous contributions.
Is that so hard to grasp?
It wouldn't matter were it his wife, his garbage collector, or the the President of Tanzania.
He gave them free reign over his journalistic gift, and bears full responsibility for all consequences.

[welch]

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

Are you able to relate one of the best things that he has "done", please?
I trust that it is not as lightweight as politely questioning the existence of Bigfoot, or YHWY, or the Tooth fairy?
Mmm. Perhaps he re-displayed the fact of evolution to a bunch of yank retards?
My daughter could do that when she was 7.
Or 6.

Does stuff?
At least my daughter didn't waste fossil fuels boosting her ego.
And... Aaron's betrothed is a bit of a problem in the skeptical department. What has he "done" about that issue, eh?
Nothing.
He has avoided the mud-slinging on that topic too.
To his and her short-term benefit, but not ours.

Aron Ra's is a grown-assed adult. I don't expect him to do *anything* about her. She has the right to her opinions, he has the right to his, and neither is responsible for the other. It's like I tell people who want to inquire about my wife's rates for illustration or design work. "Here is her email address. She handles her business quite well, and so is the one you should talk to."

If you're going to start bagging on him for not 'doing something' about her, then don't get annoyed when one of the FTBwats asks why you didn't "do" anything about somedumbguy or the tit posting the nekkid old lady ophelia 'shops. Same thing. Wrong when they do it, wrong if we do it.

I don't agree with his wife on the stuff she's posted, but I don't expect Aron to "correct" her. That's just a tad paternalistic.

As far as what he's done, well, I'd reckon about what you have. Spoke up about things he sees as wrong, and tried to promote the separation of church and state where he can. He's the texas state director for American Atheists, for whatever that's worth, and seems to try to stay out of the idiotic intercene warfare as much as he can.

so he's no better or worse than a lot of people.

But seriously? What's he "done" about his wife?

Well he could tell her to get her own blog and stop using his to spout her nonsense. Or perhaps he could tutor her on skepticism so that she has some idea of how to practice it.

or you could just not read what she posts when she posts it.

[franc]

They are doing more and more irrational things in desperation for attention - Hensley's meltdown on CFI itself plus her live tweeting her prescription pill binge; Watson's latest efforts to fabricate fresh Reddit outrage to name just a few. I bet their back channel discussions would be a barrel of laughs. Lumbering behemoths rarely die quickly.

Indeed. Amusingly, Watson's attempt to garner larger attention was the worst thing she could have done. Within the small, and somewhat insular world of skepticism/atheism, she had enough visibility and clout to maintain her status and position. Because so many within that world will bend over backwards to avoid even the hint of badthought, she could easily manipulate things.

However, out in the larger world, she's a minnow in the ocean. Out there, bad hair dye, Warby Parker knockoffs, and atonal giggling do not actually substitute for thinking. As an example, for as loud as she is, Amanda Marcotte is essentially the feminist version of the crazy guy on the corner screaming about the apocalypse. Everyone knows he's there, but he's not really influencing anyone. What little credibility she had was flushed with the Duke Lacrosse case, which is forever the millstone around her neck. Marcotte may see Watson as an ally/protege, but they'll have to be deep into cirrhosis-induced dementia to think they are as influential as Dawkins, much less someone with a good shot of being known to the general public, like Neil Tyson.

The more eyes upon her, the more people who realize she's yet another incompetent snake oil salesman who made the mistake of confusing "shaking down the rubes" with "being a doctor".

Oh to have infinite time and resources. I would have loved to have charted their collective psychodramatic theatre like a stockmarket board. They have all been competing against each other for the spotlight like jello wrestlers for a suitcase full of cash -

* Bloghog proclaiming the revolution, then flouncing a week later
* Greta shrieking about upskirt guy, then having her stock fall, but rallying through the roof with her cancer and fluvogs
* SulkyAmy with her t-shirt tears and DMCA party
* CrazyCuntLady and her death threats ending up being a deranged groupie
* then out of nowhere, Hensley and her pills and tantrums and breakdowns

There's probably more. Becky must be steaming mad the spotlight is no longer hers and hers alone - and no matter what new dumbness she tries to come up with, it's not coming back.

I bet there's enough private "bitch talk" to feed a 1000 soap operas.

Look on ye mighty - this is the real face of Women in Secularism.

To the ladies present here on the 'pit, I truly grieve for you - I can't even begin to feel your pain and embarrassment at all of the hard work being undone and seeing everything reduced to high school MeanGirls.

[welch]

But seriously? What's he "done" about his wife?

His missus posts as a guest on his FTB account, appropriating his status.
That is the reason that he is 100% responsible for those particular gratuitous contributions.
Is that so hard to grasp?
It wouldn't matter were it his wife, his garbage collector, or the the President of Tanzania.
He gave them free reign over his journalistic gift, and bears full responsibility for all consequences.

So because SHE posts on his blog HE is 100% responsible for her words?

Right. Totally not the same, I COMPLETELY see it now.

what an utter load of shit.

[welch]

They are doing more and more irrational things in desperation for attention - Hensley's meltdown on CFI itself plus her live tweeting her prescription pill binge; Watson's latest efforts to fabricate fresh Reddit outrage to name just a few. I bet their back channel discussions would be a barrel of laughs. Lumbering behemoths rarely die quickly.

Indeed. Amusingly, Watson's attempt to garner larger attention was the worst thing she could have done. Within the small, and somewhat insular world of skepticism/atheism, she had enough visibility and clout to maintain her status and position. Because so many within that world will bend over backwards to avoid even the hint of badthought, she could easily manipulate things.

However, out in the larger world, she's a minnow in the ocean. Out there, bad hair dye, Warby Parker knockoffs, and atonal giggling do not actually substitute for thinking. As an example, for as loud as she is, Amanda Marcotte is essentially the feminist version of the crazy guy on the corner screaming about the apocalypse. Everyone knows he's there, but he's not really influencing anyone. What little credibility she had was flushed with the Duke Lacrosse case, which is forever the millstone around her neck. Marcotte may see Watson as an ally/protege, but they'll have to be deep into cirrhosis-induced dementia to think they are as influential as Dawkins, much less someone with a good shot of being known to the general public, like Neil Tyson.

The more eyes upon her, the more people who realize she's yet another incompetent snake oil salesman who made the mistake of confusing "shaking down the rubes" with "being a doctor".

Oh to have infinite time and resources. I would have loved to have charted their collective psychodramatic theatre like a stockmarket board. They have all been competing against each other for the spotlight like jello wrestlers for a suitcase full of cash -

* Bloghog proclaiming the revolution, then flouncing a week later
* Greta shrieking about upskirt guy, then having her stock fall, but rallying through the roof with her cancer and fluvogs
* SulkyAmy with her t-shirt tears and DMCA party
* CrazyCuntLady and her death threats ending up being a deranged groupie
* then out of nowhere, Hensley and her pills and tantrums and breakdowns

There's probably more. Becky must be steaming mad the spotlight is no longer hers and hers alone - and no matter what new dumbness she tries to come up with, it's not coming back.

I bet there's enough private "bitch talk" to feed a 1000 soap operas.

Look on ye mighty - this is the real face of Women in Secularism.

To the ladies present here on the 'pit, I truly grieve for you - I can't even begin to feel your pain and embarrassment at all of the hard work being undone and seeing everything reduced to high school MeanGirls.

Heh..."GUYZE! GUYZE! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TAKING *MYYYYY* SPOTLIGHT?!"

"SHUT UP BECKY, WE GET TO BE INTERNET FAYMOUSE TOO!"

"YOU ALL SUCK! NO ONE WOULD EVER WANT TO FUCK YOU!"

"WELL EVERYONE ALREADY *HAS* FUCKED YOU, SO I'D RATHER BE ALONE THAN THE BIGGEST SLUT ON THE PLANET!!"

That's always the problem of showing people the "easy" way to "fame". The fucking proles start doing it to, and THEN look what happens.

[franc]

Been a while since I slimed up my gumboots. This got the better of me though -

http://greylining.com/2013/03/13/opheli ... n-i-do-it/

[Tigzy]

In my neck of the woods, tramp stamps are known as slag tags. Oft accompanied by the ubiquitous 'muffin top' sporting an ineptly pierced belly-button which has gone septic, and the 'Dagenham Facelift' (also known in my neck of the woods as the 'Pompey Pineapple') - where the hair is drawn back extremely tightly to support a short, ratty-looking ponytail.

Accessories include those shrimp-earring things and approximately six offspring of various fathers, who are given to constantly stuffing their faces with Greggs pasties despite looking malnourished. The fat females if this ilk inevitably sport a skinny, scared-looking boyfriend - were it not for the Morrisson's pie section, I presume they fear that they would be devoured also.

[JackSkeptic]

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

Are you able to relate one of the best things that he has "done", please?
I trust that it is not as lightweight as politely questioning the existence of Bigfoot, or YHWY, or the Tooth fairy?
Mmm. Perhaps he re-displayed the fact of evolution to a bunch of yank retards?
My daughter could do that when she was 7.
Or 6.

Does stuff?
At least my daughter didn't waste fossil fuels boosting her ego.
And... Aaron's betrothed is a bit of a problem in the skeptical department. What has he "done" about that issue, eh?
Nothing.
He has avoided the mud-slinging on that topic too.
To his and her short-term benefit, but not ours.

He is prominent at stopping Creationism at US schools.

[Gefan]

Woman shows off 'world's strongest vagina'

[youtube]x2ZkH31KfB0[/youtube]

Frank, as usual, sums it up...

[youtube]SpYk1F4siJU[/youtube]

[Apples]

Been a while since I slimed up my gumboots. This got the better of me though -

http://greylining.com/2013/03/13/opheli ... n-i-do-it/

Excellent piece, you fucken link whore.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

In my neck of the woods, tramp stamps are known as slag tags. Oft accompanied by the ubiquitous 'muffin top' sporting an ineptly pierced belly-button which has gone septic, and the 'Dagenham Facelift' (also known in my neck of the woods as the 'Pompey Pineapple') - where the hair is drawn back extremely tightly to support a short, ratty-looking ponytail.

Accessories include those shrimp-earring things and approximately six offspring of various fathers, who are given to constantly stuffing their faces with Greggs pasties despite looking malnourished. The fat females if this ilk inevitably sport a skinny, scared-looking boyfriend - were it not for the Morrisson's pie section, I presume they fear that they would be devoured also.

Are you talking Vicky Pollard now?

[katamari Damassi]

They are doing more and more irrational things in desperation for attention - Hensley's meltdown on CFI itself plus her live tweeting her prescription pill binge; Watson's latest efforts to fabricate fresh Reddit outrage to name just a few. I bet their back channel discussions would be a barrel of laughs. Lumbering behemoths rarely die quickly.

Indeed. Amusingly, Watson's attempt to garner larger attention was the worst thing she could have done. Within the small, and somewhat insular world of skepticism/atheism, she had enough visibility and clout to maintain her status and position. Because so many within that world will bend over backwards to avoid even the hint of badthought, she could easily manipulate things.

However, out in the larger world, she's a minnow in the ocean. Out there, bad hair dye, Warby Parker knockoffs, and atonal giggling do not actually substitute for thinking. As an example, for as loud as she is, Amanda Marcotte is essentially the feminist version of the crazy guy on the corner screaming about the apocalypse. Everyone knows he's there, but he's not really influencing anyone. What little credibility she had was flushed with the Duke Lacrosse case, which is forever the millstone around her neck. Marcotte may see Watson as an ally/protege, but they'll have to be deep into cirrhosis-induced dementia to think they are as influential as Dawkins, much less someone with a good shot of being known to the general public, like Neil Tyson.

The more eyes upon her, the more people who realize she's yet another incompetent snake oil salesman who made the mistake of confusing "shaking down the rubes" with "being a doctor".

Oh to have infinite time and resources. I would have loved to have charted their collective psychodramatic theatre like a stockmarket board. They have all been competing against each other for the spotlight like jello wrestlers for a suitcase full of cash -

* Bloghog proclaiming the revolution, then flouncing a week later
* Greta shrieking about upskirt guy, then having her stock fall, but rallying through the roof with her cancer and fluvogs
* SulkyAmy with her t-shirt tears and DMCA party
* CrazyCuntLady and her death threats ending up being a deranged groupie
* then out of nowhere, Hensley and her pills and tantrums and breakdowns

There's probably more. Becky must be steaming mad the spotlight is no longer hers and hers alone - and no matter what new dumbness she tries to come up with, it's not coming back.

I bet there's enough private "bitch talk" to feed a 1000 soap operas.

Look on ye mighty - this is the real face of Women in Secularism.

To the ladies present here on the 'pit, I truly grieve for you - I can't even begin to feel your pain and embarrassment at all of the hard work being undone and seeing everything reduced to high school MeanGirls.

You left out Moaning Myrtle(Ellenbeth Wachs)

[katamari Damassi]

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

Are you able to relate one of the best things that he has "done", please?
I trust that it is not as lightweight as politely questioning the existence of Bigfoot, or YHWY, or the Tooth fairy?
Mmm. Perhaps he re-displayed the fact of evolution to a bunch of yank retards?
My daughter could do that when she was 7.
Or 6.

Does stuff?
At least my daughter didn't waste fossil fuels boosting her ego.
And... Aaron's betrothed is a bit of a problem in the skeptical department. What has he "done" about that issue, eh?
Nothing.
He has avoided the mud-slinging on that topic too.
To his and her short-term benefit, but not ours.

Aron Ra's is a grown-assed adult. I don't expect him to do *anything* about her. She has the right to her opinions, he has the right to his, and neither is responsible for the other. It's like I tell people who want to inquire about my wife's rates for illustration or design work. "Here is her email address. She handles her business quite well, and so is the one you should talk to."

If you're going to start bagging on him for not 'doing something' about her, then don't get annoyed when one of the FTBwats asks why you didn't "do" anything about somedumbguy or the tit posting the nekkid old lady ophelia 'shops. Same thing. Wrong when they do it, wrong if we do it.

I don't agree with his wife on the stuff she's posted, but I don't expect Aron to "correct" her. That's just a tad paternalistic.

As far as what he's done, well, I'd reckon about what you have. Spoke up about things he sees as wrong, and tried to promote the separation of church and state where he can. He's the texas state director for American Atheists, for whatever that's worth, and seems to try to stay out of the idiotic intercene warfare as much as he can.

so he's no better or worse than a lot of people.

But seriously? What's he "done" about his wife?

Well he could tell her to get her own blog and stop using his to spout her nonsense. Or perhaps he could tutor her on skepticism so that she has some idea of how to practice it.

or you could just not read what she posts when she posts it.

Well I make a point of that now, but in the beginning I mistook her oath of fealty to Watson as belonging to her husband.

[Tigzy]

In my neck of the woods, tramp stamps are known as slag tags. Oft accompanied by the ubiquitous 'muffin top' sporting an ineptly pierced belly-button which has gone septic, and the 'Dagenham Facelift' (also known in my neck of the woods as the 'Pompey Pineapple') - where the hair is drawn back extremely tightly to support a short, ratty-looking ponytail.

Accessories include those shrimp-earring things and approximately six offspring of various fathers, who are given to constantly stuffing their faces with Greggs pasties despite looking malnourished. The fat females if this ilk inevitably sport a skinny, scared-looking boyfriend - were it not for the Morrisson's pie section, I presume they fear that they would be devoured also.

Are you talking Vicky Pollard now?

I'm talking the sweet flower of welfare-class English womanhood. So yes, Vicky Pollard, basically.

[Dick Strawkins]

In my neck of the woods, tramp stamps are known as slag tags. Oft accompanied by the ubiquitous 'muffin top' sporting an ineptly pierced belly-button which has gone septic, and the 'Dagenham Facelift' (also known in my neck of the woods as the 'Pompey Pineapple') - where the hair is drawn back extremely tightly to support a short, ratty-looking ponytail.

Ah yes, the slutterfly tattoo and council facelift.
It goes so well with your favorite tracksuit!

[SPACKlick]

Several posts have made mention of Butterflies and Wheels low original content to blockquote ratio, this felt a lot like anecdata to me, so I went and crunched the numbers.

In the last week (6/3/13 -12/3/13) there have been 37 posts (from "Napoleon Chagnon talks to eSkeptic" till "Backward and in High Heels"). Not including guest posts.

I have counted all words in the post (using MS word 2010 64bit word count following a copy and paste and have added words from any images of facebook/twitter/poster if they are not quoted in the text. I did not count words added to articles in updates. The total words in posts across this period was 18,652 an average of 504 words per post with a standard deviation of 639.56

Anything in blockquotes was removed as were direct quotes in text (On the interview article ("Meet Rebecca Goldstein") I was in two minds but ultimately included only the authors words as original work as this is about creating content not collecting original content, this may skew the results so some later numbers will not include the article). Ophelia contributed a total of 4443 words (average 120/article sdev 109.34)

This works out as an overall percentage of 23.8% of content being original. The average original content per article was 35.4% sdev 29.2%

There were two articles which were reposts of press releases, containing no original content. If we remove these and the interview discussed above the numbers change to

Total articles 34
Total words 13,388 Mean 394 sDev 334.19
Ophie words 3972 Mean 117 sDev 91.79

Overall 29.7% Mean 38.1% sDev 28.8%

There appears to be a logarithmic negative correlation with article length and percent contribution. All articles longer than 370 words have below average contribution ratios all those under 170 words have above average contribution ratios.

Comparing contribution to total length also produces a logarithmic trend.

I will make the data available as a google spreadsheet if anybody requests it in the next 2 hours.

[Gefan]

Oh to have infinite time and resources. I would have loved to have charted their collective psychodramatic theatre like a stockmarket board. They have all been competing against each other for the spotlight like jello wrestlers for a suitcase full of cash -

* Bloghog proclaiming the revolution, then flouncing a week later
* Greta shrieking about upskirt guy, then having her stock fall, but rallying through the roof with her cancer and fluvogs
* SulkyAmy with her t-shirt tears and DMCA party
* CrazyCuntLady and her death threats ending up being a deranged groupie
* then out of nowhere, Hensley and her pills and tantrums and breakdowns

There's probably more. Becky must be steaming mad the spotlight is no longer hers and hers alone - and no matter what new dumbness she tries to come up with, it's not coming back.[/

I bet there's enough private "bitch talk" to feed a 1000 soap operas...

Read the above list.
Doesn't it sound like a pitch for an MTV "Reality" Show? Half a dozen borderline personalities, raised to think nothing is worth doing if it's not done on TV. Throw them together in a large house, and stand back.
"The Real RadFems"?
Title needs work but the possibilities are amazing.
Only possible snag is that MTV is notoriously cheap and may not be willing to foot Becky's booze bill.

[JAB]

http://i.imgur.com/gaYAYWD.jpg

Steersman's a dick but I love him.

(Like I love dick.)

(Jk. I don't love dick, but I do love Steersman.)

But do you love fishsticks?

:whistle:

[Richard Dworkins]

In my neck of the woods, tramp stamps are known as slag tags. Oft accompanied by the ubiquitous 'muffin top' sporting an ineptly pierced belly-button which has gone septic, and the 'Dagenham Facelift' (also known in my neck of the woods as the 'Pompey Pineapple') - where the hair is drawn back extremely tightly to support a short, ratty-looking ponytail.

Ah yes, the slutterfly tattoo and council facelift.
It goes so well with your favorite tracksuit!

And fanta orange fake tan, let's not forget that healthy mutant glow.

[Lsuoma]

In my neck of the woods, tramp stamps are known as slag tags. Oft accompanied by the ubiquitous 'muffin top' sporting an ineptly pierced belly-button which has gone septic, and the 'Dagenham Facelift' (also known in my neck of the woods as the 'Pompey Pineapple') - where the hair is drawn back extremely tightly to support a short, ratty-looking ponytail.

Ah yes, the slutterfly tattoo and council facelift.
It goes so well with your favorite tracksuit!

And fanta orange fake tan, let's not forget that healthy mutant glow.

Oh no! Looks like he's got the big orange hand!

[welch]

Comment I posted on AI's facebook entry, the one where they're telling Natasha why it's $100 euro to attend:

Given the collection of really smart people in Ireland already, why would you need to fly people in at all? I see Natasha's point rather easily - the money you spend even just on flying people is not small, and if local speakers were used instead of flying in "names", the money you'd save would be considerable.

Looking at the speaker lineup, there's five speakers coming in from the US. Even if you only pay for airfare from NYC to Dublin, that's still around $1000US, or around 773 euros per person. If we go with a fairly cheap rate of say, $180US/night for 3 nights, (assuming flying in the 28th, leaving 1 July), that's $2700US for hotel. Per Diem requires more local knowledge than I have, and even local speakers should have at least some meals handled so we'll ignore that.

Even a rough estimate puts the cost for those 5 US speakers at around $7700US. That doesn't include the costs for the speakers coming in from the rest of Europe and pakistan. So a total cost to the conference of $10,000 just to bring in non-local speakers?

How many people like Natasha could go if that money were used to help the local folks speak and attend, instead of flying people in?

[DGS]

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/WECLOME-as-in-St ... BTrGFmQBWk~$(KGrHgoH-EUEjlLluH(EBKJsYTFdrQ~~_35.JPG

Truly DGS, the mere fact that you're aware of this makes me love you even more.

/sniff

Be still my beating heart!

Love a bit of Jack and Victor

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Comment I posted on AI's facebook entry, the one where they're telling Natasha why it's $100 euro to attend:

Given the collection of really smart people in Ireland already, why would you need to fly people in at all? I see Natasha's point rather easily - the money you spend even just on flying people is not small, and if local speakers were used instead of flying in "names", the money you'd save would be considerable.

Looking at the speaker lineup, there's five speakers coming in from the US. Even if you only pay for airfare from NYC to Dublin, that's still around $1000US, or around 773 euros per person. If we go with a fairly cheap rate of say, $180US/night for 3 nights, (assuming flying in the 28th, leaving 1 July), that's $2700US for hotel. Per Diem requires more local knowledge than I have, and even local speakers should have at least some meals handled so we'll ignore that.

Even a rough estimate puts the cost for those 5 US speakers at around $7700US. That doesn't include the costs for the speakers coming in from the rest of Europe and pakistan. So a total cost to the conference of $10,000 just to bring in non-local speakers?

How many people like Natasha could go if that money were used to help the local folks speak and attend, instead of flying people in?

linky, please?

[AndrewV69]

lol This one said:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-498200

"Yes, I said rape culture, dealt with it."

Uh. Everyone who's allowed to post there does deal with it. Because you're only allowed to post there if you do.

Giliel, you're an idiot. I hope you enjoyed your Slymepit mention. Go back to middle management at a supermarket where you belong. Boo-yah!

Speaking of "rape culture", apparently back in 2009 France was #1.

Rape (2009)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes
#1 France 10,277
#4 Sweden 4,901
#23 Canada 491
#57 USA 30.2

I have not looked into it, but something looks a bit fishy here.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

lol This one said:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-498200

"Yes, I said rape culture, dealt with it."

Uh. Everyone who's allowed to post there does deal with it. Because you're only allowed to post there if you do.

Giliel, you're an idiot. I hope you enjoyed your Slymepit mention. Go back to middle management at a supermarket where you belong. Boo-yah!

Speaking of "rape culture", apparently back in 2009 France was #1.

Rape (2009)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes
#1 France 10,277
#4 Sweden 4,901
#23 Canada 491
#57 USA 30.2

I have not looked into it, but something looks a bit fishy here.

Fishy? You don't say!

[Aneris]

Sarkeesian is finding the evidence she is looking for instead of following it. Fail.

I don't find that to be true. It isn't like Donkey Kong, Mario, and Legend of Zelda are bit players in the history of video games and she had to work really hard to find a damsel in distress in a video game. My oldest daughter is just getting into video games a bit. We play Spelunky together and she likes to choose the female character. I don't think it's cherry picking to say that in Mario you simply can't choose a girl character in all the games except for the one which wasn't really designed to be a Mario game.

No, it will be the same as she previously bemoaned with Lego.

If it's the same as (or not relevantly different from) the guy's storyline, it's the man with boobs trope. If it's different in a way that is seen to appeal to women, it will be reinforcing gender roles.

It's lose-lose when the patriarchy is always the explanation.

Choosing a female character ( ala Mass Effect) will likely not be praised by AS either. It will be seen as the "man with boobs" trope. The only thing which might appease her is for game designers to create two separate story lines depending on which gender the player chooses./serious

Even then, the outcry will be "What about the other 21 genders" /sarcasm

hahahaha fucked it. the bold bits are mine.

Which hits on yet another issue. When women aren't different (the view that gender is a social construction only, which is what certain feminists claim), then how come they expect content catered to particular genders? And then there is more. What if you depict or built on a tradition or history that was indeed patriarchal or racist etc. The activities of samurai, gunslingers or knights are generally deemed more interesting than gardening or house keeping. Vikings had no modern-day-american proportion of "people of color" on their boats. This is different for Spaniards, French and the Dutch in later centuries ... uh *cough*... you get the idea. And then each creator of such works makes his own one data point. Disney can now make sure they have enough female heroes, but when you begin somewhere (like with Zelda or Mario) you have to start somewhere, and if successful, crap, there is a tradition and people want more of it.

The idea of patriarchy is not entirely wrong, though. It's just misapplied. The first pop culture was made by men for ordinary boys and men, and appeared in Sunday newspapers that were read by proud fathers while their lovely wife served them coffee. There is no way around that. It wasn't considered art yet, it wasn't meant to be clever or subversive. The following decades went on like that, often indeed sexist. You couldn't have porn laying around, but sexist pulp was okay. This changed gradually as it was considered an art form, and rebellious post-wars authors, and more women entered the scene. Like always, traditions, the tradition the medium and historical traditions don't go away over night. People keep building on them, and as it was pointed out a few times, the tropes were often subverted, inverted and whatnot since then.

[Wonderist]

But, just out of curiousity, what do you think “we” lose by giving that benefit of doubt? Will we be ceding the Sudetenland as part of that process which will then be fortified beyond any hope of regaining it if the negotiations sour? Really not sure why you would be averse to that process; nothing ventured, nothing gained.

"We" lose valuable time.
We lose fence-sitters.

Much as giving the Vatican "the benefit of the doubt" does.
It achieves less than zero, apart from retarding the advance of reason over doctrine, evidence over fabrication.

[/quote]
I disagree. We do not lose fence-sitters, we gain them. I'm focusing here particularly on the Nugent incident, but these principles are at play in most of the current conflicts/dust-ups. I'm also taking Steersman's 'benefit of the doubt' to refer to 'not assuming Nugent had intended it as a setup'.

People make mistakes. People believe dumb shit. People do stupid things. But that doesn't mean they do these things intentionally. *And* it doesn't mean they can't learn from their mistakes, give up false beliefs, or make up for the dumb shit they've done in the past.

Again, I bring it around to the similarities with theism vs. atheism. Some of (perhaps most?) the best opponents of theism (i.e. religious intrusion in the public sphere, and general belief in gods) are former hard-core theists who know what it's like to be on the inside of the belief bubble. Once they break out of it, the can often see harms of religion that those of us (such as myself) who've never been religious cannot see directly ourselves. They are especially good at decoding the brainwashing tactics/strategies that are used to keep people believing.

The same will be true here. There are an enormous number of people who either already-sorta-kinda believe some of the radfem dogma, or are at the very least highly susceptible to being snookered into believing. I'm talking about the greater public at large, but specifically I'm also referring to the larger, wider skeptic/atheist communities which consist largely of liberal-minded folks who want to help support apparent 'good' causes.

These are the people we need to reach. These are the 'mainstream' folks who don't yet see the problems, and need to be convinced (with evidence, of course) that a) a problem exists, b) it either affects them directly, or could very well affect them directly soon, and c) they can and should do something about it. Most of us here already recognize a), that a problem exists, but most folks in the 'mainstream' don't. They are oblivious to radfem dogma. They think, "The really crazy feminists exist, but nobody listens to them." Kinda like how people used to think the religious right were just fringe nutjobs, before all of a sudden wham! craziness everywhere.

If you assume people are malicious in their intent, you are likely to end up recruiting an enemy. This kind of reaction should be familiar to the long-time members of the Slyme Pit, as the example of Ask an Atheist showed. Sam and Becky, much like Nugent, assumed that 'misogyny is everywhere'. Some SPs (including yourself, MKG) assumed the worst and nearly knocked Sam into the 'resentful enemy' role.

The same potential existed here, but was even more likely because Nugent was already friends with PZ et al. Imagine if we had *all* assumed he was dishonest/malicious/whatever. I think it's very likely he would have had his prior bias confirmed (in his mind) and written us off as, "Wow, yep. I guess they really are incorrigible haters. There's no common ground to be had here, they just assume the worst and nothing I do or say convinces them I'm sincere."

We had a few things going for us that helped avoid that outcome: Nugent had chosen to engage with JV, who has been taking great care to present himself calmly, rationally (most of the time ;-) ), and humbly. Nugent saw a potential opening for productive dialog. He did *not* expect a drama storm of thousands of comments, I can guarantee you. Also, Nugent has a prior history with conflict resolution (which, if you take the time to consider this, is freaking awesome, and just what is needed), and has faced strong 'pushback' before, hence was less likely than the average person to back down from dramatic conflict. *And* not all of us assumed he was being a sleazeball. Just saying.

Nugent is still an unknown quantity, but I suspect he's much more likely to become one of those 'broke out of the belief bubble' types I mentioned at the beginning of this post, rather than reverting to a 'resentful enemy' or 'follow the herd' or 'stick up for my friends' types. He is exactly the kind of person we need to be connecting with, not assume the worst of.

The strategies that work at the beginning of a culture-shift do not always continue to work all the way through the shift. There are different segments of the population (and these different segments differ on each issue) depending on their values, perceived needs, and adversity to risk, among other factors. We (speaking generally, and collectively, as individuals) tend to be more on the 'I don't give a shit what most people think' side of things, and by 'most people', I mean 'even if they happen to be self-declared skeptics'. Nugent, having a more public face, is tending more towards the 'I have to be careful about what I do and say because what others think of me is important for reaching my goals' side of things. He is more averse to risk (in *this* context, again, different people fall in different segments, depending on the issue) than we are. The simple fact of the matter is, there are far more people out there like Nugent than there are like us. If we're going to push this culture-shift all the way through to completion (i.e. waking up to radfem/genderfem dogma and rejecting it), then we *need* to use methods that work with more 'mainstream' people like Nugent, and Sam and Becky from Ask an Atheist.

I won't condemn anyone for using their preferred methods, if they want to stick to them. That's fine. My message is simply that there is significant risk of some of those methods backfiring, when used like a hammer as if everything is a nail.

The theory I'm going by in the above comment is due largely (but not only) to a great pair of books about technology marketing, Crossing the Chasm, and Inside the Tornado (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Chasm). Highly recommended, as it's not only relevant to tech, but also to 'marketing' many culture-shift type ideas, including atheism/skepticism itself.

[Wonderist]

I think we’re talking about “the benefit of doubt” in two separate cases; you seem to be referring to the FTB camp itself whereas I’m referring to the supposed mediator, Michael Nugent.

Oh Jesus H Christ on a crutch!
An obsequious "mediator" who begins with the conclusion that all members of the Slymepit are degenerate misogynists, liars, and reprobates, and that his invited & respected guests: Beccy, PZ et alia are paragons of honesty and probity??????
A Mediator?!?!?
For fux sake, that bridge offer is still available. At a reduced price of $76,000,000,000.99 for suckers like you.

That he does not employ curse words in his clear premeditated slimy mendacity seems to have swayed you, eh?

The bridge comes with a free set of stake knives.

Speaking of bridges, what's your strategy for building them, MKG?

[Dick Strawkins]

lol This one said:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-498200

"Yes, I said rape culture, dealt with it."

Uh. Everyone who's allowed to post there does deal with it. Because you're only allowed to post there if you do.

Giliel, you're an idiot. I hope you enjoyed your Slymepit mention. Go back to middle management at a supermarket where you belong. Boo-yah!

Speaking of "rape culture", apparently back in 2009 France was #1.

Rape (2009)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes
#1 France 10,277
#4 Sweden 4,901
#23 Canada 491
#57 USA 30.2

I have not looked into it, but something looks a bit fishy here.

Fishy? You don't say!

You would say that, coming from the number one country for rapes.

From those statistics it appears that the best place to live to avoid rape culture is Pakistan, followed closely by Saudi Arabia!

Feminist paradises, the both of them!

[Bhurzum]

Re: Tramp stamps, slag antlers, whore ink etc...

[youtube]vy0ZLc84[/youtube]

Lynch said it, that settles it.

/cough

[Wonderist]

Whatever about Nugent's original motives (which to my mind, involved painting the slymepit as some sort of nasty hit squad, targeting uppity women), I think the way it panned out was very revealing.
It showed me an important point that I hadn't really seen illustrated before, namely that when you take away the arguments based purely on moral superiority, the FTB crowd have nothing left. It is no surprise that they cannot argue on the evidence, we've known that for the past two years. What was surprising for me, at least, was the realization that the moral superiority arguments - as in the lists of shit Nugent pulled out of the Slymepit - are so easily neutralized by repeating the same procedure back at them. Nugent had no answer to the lists of shit Atheist Ireland had on their forum. He had to simply back down and apologize, his moral high horse fatally wounded.
I think this shows the value of things like Tigzy's thread on the violent threats frequently made by the FTB horde. Just collecting them together gives a great resource to use against them whenever they appear on neutral forums calling for shunning of slympitters.

That was indeed an excellent rebuttal, thanks to dedicated SPs here. Just goes to show that rhetoric without evidence is a empty. Stick with the evidence, and reality will eventually sort out your misconceptions. Ignore the evidence, and you're just arguing on faith. Ya know, I really wish it wasn't called 'Pharwrongula' (too limited in scope, IMO), but a wiki is really the best place to collect this kind of evidence for long-term reference. Forums tend to bury good stuff in the relentless progression of comments, but wikis lay everything flat on the table to make it easy to find and reference. This kind of info is exactly the kind that needs to be easy to link to and browse, the way a wiki can.

[JackSkeptic]

Several posts have made mention of Butterflies and Wheels low original content to blockquote ratio, this felt a lot like anecdata to me, so I went and crunched the numbers.

In the last week (6/3/13 -12/3/13) there have been 37 posts (from "Napoleon Chagnon talks to eSkeptic" till "Backward and in High Heels"). Not including guest posts.

I have counted all words in the post (using MS word 2010 64bit word count following a copy and paste and have added words from any images of facebook/twitter/poster if they are not quoted in the text. I did not count words added to articles in updates. The total words in posts across this period was 18,652 an average of 504 words per post with a standard deviation of 639.56

Anything in blockquotes was removed as were direct quotes in text (On the interview article ("Meet Rebecca Goldstein") I was in two minds but ultimately included only the authors words as original work as this is about creating content not collecting original content, this may skew the results so some later numbers will not include the article). Ophelia contributed a total of 4443 words (average 120/article sdev 109.34)

This works out as an overall percentage of 23.8% of content being original. The average original content per article was 35.4% sdev 29.2%

There were two articles which were reposts of press releases, containing no original content. If we remove these and the interview discussed above the numbers change to

Total articles 34
Total words 13,388 Mean 394 sDev 334.19
Ophie words 3972 Mean 117 sDev 91.79

Overall 29.7% Mean 38.1% sDev 28.8%

There appears to be a logarithmic negative correlation with article length and percent contribution. All articles longer than 370 words have below average contribution ratios all those under 170 words have above average contribution ratios.

Comparing contribution to total length also produces a logarithmic trend.

I will make the data available as a google spreadsheet if anybody requests it in the next 2 hours.

In other words some are padding heavily and some are not. Those that are not padding are producing more personal content. Thanks for the analyses.

[Ericb]

lol This one said:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-498200

"Yes, I said rape culture, dealt with it."

Uh. Everyone who's allowed to post there does deal with it. Because you're only allowed to post there if you do.

Giliel, you're an idiot. I hope you enjoyed your Slymepit mention. Go back to middle management at a supermarket where you belong. Boo-yah!

Speaking of "rape culture", apparently back in 2009 France was #1.

Rape (2009)
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes
#1 France 10,277
#4 Sweden 4,901
#23 Canada 491
#57 USA 30.2

I have not looked into it, but something looks a bit fishy here.

Fishy? You don't say!

You would say that, coming from the number one country for rapes.

From those statistics it appears that the best place to live to avoid rape culture is Pakistan, followed closely by Saudi Arabia!

Feminist paradises, the both of them!

It all depends on how the crimes are reported. I doubt that places like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have the same idea of what constitutes rape as France or the US. And as actual functioning patriarchies these conservative Islamic societies might regard rape as a private "family" matter rather than a public, criminal one.

[JackSkeptic]

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/WECLOME-as-in-St ... BTrGFmQBWk~$(KGrHgoH-EUEjlLluH(EBKJsYTFdrQ~~_35.JPG

Truly DGS, the mere fact that you're aware of this makes me love you even more.

/sniff

Be still my beating heart!

Love a bit of Jack and Victor

You rang?

[JackSkeptic]

Comment I posted on AI's facebook entry, the one where they're telling Natasha why it's $100 euro to attend:

Given the collection of really smart people in Ireland already, why would you need to fly people in at all? I see Natasha's point rather easily - the money you spend even just on flying people is not small, and if local speakers were used instead of flying in "names", the money you'd save would be considerable.

Looking at the speaker lineup, there's five speakers coming in from the US. Even if you only pay for airfare from NYC to Dublin, that's still around $1000US, or around 773 euros per person. If we go with a fairly cheap rate of say, $180US/night for 3 nights, (assuming flying in the 28th, leaving 1 July), that's $2700US for hotel. Per Diem requires more local knowledge than I have, and even local speakers should have at least some meals handled so we'll ignore that.

Even a rough estimate puts the cost for those 5 US speakers at around $7700US. That doesn't include the costs for the speakers coming in from the rest of Europe and pakistan. So a total cost to the conference of $10,000 just to bring in non-local speakers?

How many people like Natasha could go if that money were used to help the local folks speak and attend, instead of flying people in?

Poor old Nugent has woken up the Slymepit. Good post.

[Wonderist]

I have no issues with AronRa. At least he actually does stuff and avoids mud slinging.

Are you able to relate one of the best things that he has "done", please?

His videos are kick-ass and present genuinely useful and often novel arguments, especially his anti-creationist ones. I used two of them in my Evidence Chicken article, which you can find in one of the last comments here: http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum ... ent-351283

He tends to finish his vids with a giant rant like a textbook going *THUD* on a desk, which I think is hilarious end effective rhetorically. Hence my inclusion of his vids in reference to evidence chicken.

These are the two I'm referring to:

[youtube]_r0zpk0lPFU[/youtube]

[youtube]5MXTBGcyNuc[/youtube]