Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Pitchguest]

By the way, as long as we're on the subject, is Ophelia determined to prove Sara Mayhew and Richard Reed right or something?

Her latest blog post has less than 5% her own content. Total amount of characters for Ophelia: 113. Total amount of characters for the person she quotes: 1231. Seriously.

[DGS]

I wonder what feminist critics make of LBP. Or Flower. Or Journey...

What's LBP?

Little Big Planet.

I know. Not 80s or 90s games

[Michael K Gray]

…But I think you’re wrong to argue that it was a “set up from the start”, particularly on so little evidence. While you might be right, my impression from a number of comments here and on his site is that Michael was involved in some capacity in brokering some peace in Ireland which would suggest some degree of honesty and equanimity.

So, he is either too incompetent & naïve to hold his position, or too partisan & biased to hold his position?
Mmmm.... what a choice, eh.

And even if he hadn’t been I would still be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, contingent, of course, on further developments.

I have the deeds to Adelaide Harbour Bridge here for quick sale. SSsh! Don't tell anyone, but you can have them for $5.4 million.
Oh, alright: $7.99. And that's my final offer. There are other less favoured buyers in the queue, so you'd better decide immediately.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

fuck punctuation i go ee cummings from now

Hehe. You said 'cum'.

heheheh...so did you...heheheheh

This video games discussion is starting to be a bit tedious. I mostly play flight simulators these days, and we all know a plane is a phallic symbol.

Fucking sexist pigs!

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

No, really, Tigzy's latest offering is a work of marvel (haha). If this whole mess were just a battle of wit and humour, that panel would win the war. I don't usually find photoshops posted here extremely funny (save Jan and Skep Tickle) but really. Ali is looking at me in a weird way as i'm still laughing out loud.

Well played, Tigzy!

What's extremely funny (besides Jan's creations) is that I don't photoshop. :lol:

Yeah, my bad, I was thinking of another Skepsomething. Can't remember the name right at this moment.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

fuck punctuation i go ee cummings from now

Hehe. You said 'cum'.

heheheh...so did you...heheheheh

This video games discussion is starting to be a bit tedious. I mostly play flight simulators these days, and we all know a plane is a phallic symbol.

Fucking sexist pigs!

Flippant you may be!! But we all know that most pilots are men, because the airline industry is sexist. Which means your flight sim is bound to be based on a man flying the plane. So yeah, that is sexist too.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I still play D and D.

I claim the prize for the saddest geek at the Slympit. Resistance is futile.

Dude, I do D&D LARP.

[Michael K Gray]

I mostly play flight simulators...

I call them "Fright Stimulators".

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

The "tramp stamp" however, in my experience says not good long term relationship material.

There might be exceptions of course, and I could be wrong also, but that particular type of tattoo is firmly associated in my mind with a lifestyle that is not conducive to a stable family life.

Any man who marries a woman with a "tramp stamp" should not be surprised if she files for divorce within ten years.

My best friend has a "tramp stamp" (we call them "tatoo" in my neck of the wood), and she has been happily married for three years. Granted, to a Dominican salsa teacher who even I find extremely sexy. I'm not really convinced tatoos say anything about a person's character.

[Steersman]

…But I think you’re wrong to argue that it was a “set up from the start”, particularly on so little evidence. While you might be right, my impression from a number of comments here and on his site is that Michael was involved in some capacity in brokering some peace in Ireland which would suggest some degree of honesty and equanimity.

So, he is either too incompetent & naïve to hold his position, or too partisan & biased to hold his position?
Mmmm.... what a choice, eh.

And even if he hadn’t been I would still be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, contingent, of course, on further developments.

I have the deeds to Adelaide Harbour Bridge here for quick sale. SSsh! Don't tell anyone, but you can have them for $5.4 million.
Oh, alright: $7.99. And that's my final offer. There are other less favoured buyers in the queue, so you'd better decide immediately.

While there may be cases where “Total War” and fight to the death have their place, I sort of doubt this is one of them. In which case there might be some justification for trying to find some common ground – without, of course, abandoning “non-negotiable” principles. But not likely to find those with out some discussion.

But, just out of curiousity, what do you think “we” lose by giving that benefit of doubt? Will we be ceding the Sudetenland as part of that process which will then be fortified beyond any hope of regaining it if the negotiations sour? Really not sure why you would be averse to that process; nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Michael K Gray]

But, just out of curiousity, what do you think “we” lose by giving that benefit of doubt? Will we be ceding the Sudetenland as part of that process which will then be fortified beyond any hope of regaining it if the negotiations sour? Really not sure why you would be averse to that process; nothing ventured, nothing gained.

"We" lose valuable time.
We lose fence-sitters.

Much as giving the Vatican "the benefit of the doubt" does.
It achieves less than zero, apart from retarding the advance of reason over doctrine, evidence over fabrication.

[Steersman]

But, just out of curiousity, what do you think “we” lose by giving that benefit of doubt? Will we be ceding the Sudetenland as part of that process which will then be fortified beyond any hope of regaining it if the negotiations sour? Really not sure why you would be averse to that process; nothing ventured, nothing gained.

"We" lose valuable time.
We lose fence-sitters.

Much as giving the Vatican "the benefit of the doubt" does.
It achieves less than zero, apart from retarding the advance of reason over doctrine, evidence over fabrication.

I think we’re talking about “the benefit of doubt” in two separate cases; you seem to be referring to the FTB camp itself whereas I’m referring to the supposed mediator, Michael Nugent.

Maybe the two positions have hardened to the point that there is no give-and-take for Michael to work with, and maybe FTB have a small and declining influence, but the situation looks rather dead-locked and unproductive to me and could maybe use some outside assistance.

[but time to call it a day; night all]

[Michael K Gray]

I think we’re talking about “the benefit of doubt” in two separate cases; you seem to be referring to the FTB camp itself whereas I’m referring to the supposed mediator, Michael Nugent.

Oh Jesus H Christ on a crutch!
An obsequious "mediator" who begins with the conclusion that all members of the Slymepit are degenerate misogynists, liars, and reprobates, and that his invited & respected guests: Beccy, PZ et alia are paragons of honesty and probity??????
A Mediator?!?!?
For fux sake, that bridge offer is still available. At a reduced price of $76,000,000,000.99 for suckers like you.

That he does not employ curse words in his clear premeditated slimy mendacity seems to have swayed you, eh?

The bridge comes with a free set of stake knives.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

The bridge comes with a free set of stake knives.

OOOOOOhhh! I'll take it, then! Really, 76.99 billion Aussie dollars is, like, 16 euros, right? That's quite a bargain for a nice set of knives (and a bridge).

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Although, could I get a set of stalk knives instead? Seems to be more in spirit with what we're supposed to do here...

[Michael K Gray]

Although, could I get a set of stalk knives instead? Seems to be more in spirit with what we're supposed to do here...

I'm sorry, I'll read that again.
A Free Set of Stake knives.
Hot off the charming ethnic forges of true Romanian/Transylvanian Gypsy wampyire craftsbats, as seen on TV¹.
Ideal for driving home a Valentine's Day sentiment²

___________________________________
¹Trans-Vacula™. The before-shave fragrance for real men.
With real mustaches.
² And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and
all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the
guitar.

[windy]

WTF is "cryptic" about ovulating? Most women I know have at least a general idea of when they're ovulating. They can't tell "ping, there's an egg", but the idea she presents that they don't know or can't really tell seems quite odd.

"Concealed ovulation" - the term's been in use since at least the late 1970's, in evolutionary biology & comparative biology circles at least. That part isn't some novel idea that JMcC came up with, though "cryptic fertility" seems to be her own term*.

I'm going to guess that that any knowledge or general idea women have that they're ovulating occurs in women who have already learned that ovulation occurs mid-cycle (and what some of the symptoms would be), in which case symptoms can be interpreted (often correctly, I'm sure) as indicating that it's ovulation time. Which would fairly well restrict that understanding to modern times and to modern education.

Agreed. And the idea of concealed ovulation refers more to the fact that it's concealed from male partners (although there's been some speculation on the role of self-deception.)

*Her idea was that "cryptic fertility" could make women more likely to seek out multiple partners, not less likely, and her beef with evo pych reportedly started when her instructor in that class lapped up her idea without seeming to care to consider how a hypothesis in evo psych might be tested.

Hmm, call me crazy but if I hear that theories in a field I'm interested in pursuing haven't been adequately tested yet, my reaction is less "screw this" and more:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/ ... 143894.jpg

[AbsurdWalls]

Have any of you peeps here yet clicked on Brony's name? It takes you to his blog.

It's about neuroscience - or at least Brony's take on it - and, uh, My Little Pony.

It is all exceedingly strange...

... Since I have spent the last two months with this brain modeling among my primary interests, the act of bringing it into reality made me get emotionally sensitive about it in weird ways…

I can sympathise. I'm just finishing my thesis on brain modelling and I'm feeling pretty emotionally sensitive about it at the moment.

Me too. But man between the glue and the paint fumes, I'm so fucking wasted.

The most difficult part about maintaining my collection of brain models is finding the little hats to put on them all.

[AbsurdWalls]

I mixed up Almost Diamonds with BlagHag, I believe. Scratch that part.

She actually corrected PZ later, who conveniently ignored it, and said it was NOT because of any issues here. She seemed annoyed he had used her as an excuse to get at us.

If I remember correctly she was also annoyed at people here using her to get at PZ etc.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Listverse has gone to crap lately, what with fucking stupid lists by a "Morris M" like "Alternatives to evolution" and "Why creationism should be taught in schhol" (I shit you not: http://listverse.com/2013/03/08/10-alte ... evolution/ and the one about creationism seems to have been mercifuly deleted).

But look at one of today's lists' #10 entry, and tell me it doesn't sound familiar:

http://listverse.com/2013/03/13/10-reas ... stitution/

Rich Old White Guys

I don't know, this exact phraseology seems to be popping up more and more these days.

[SPACKlick]

By the way, as long as we're on the subject, is Ophelia determined to prove Sara Mayhew and Richard Reed right or something?

Her latest blog post has less than 5% her own content. Total amount of characters for Ophelia: 113. Total amount of characters for the person she quotes: 1231. Seriously.

Mathfail

113/(1231+113) = 113/1344 = [approx] 0.0840773 = 8.41% which is >5%

[Pitchguest]

Never were that good at maths. General effort then. :P

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Although, could I get a set of stalk knives instead? Seems to be more in spirit with what we're supposed to do here...

I'm sorry, I'll read that again.
A Free Set of Stake knives.
Hot off the charming ethnic forges of true Romanian/Transylvanian Gypsy wampyire craftsbats, as seen on TV¹.
Ideal for driving home a Valentine's Day sentiment²

___________________________________
¹Trans-Vacula™. The before-shave fragrance for real men.
With real mustaches.
² And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and
all you got to do to join is sing it the next time it come's around on the
guitar.

You can keep your damn bridge then! We don't need no stake knives in France, we have garlic!

[Michael K Gray]

Here is the chance of a lunchtime!
You can own this valuable and iconic original artwork, for the reasonable price of a donation of $50 to Operation Slime.
Second come, first served.
(The motto of my local brothel).
A deliberately degraded scan (to obviate art fraud):
http://www.michaelgray.com.au/Resources ... Fish1a.png
PZ Meets his second worst nightmare: A Cross Zebra-fish half-wit-gifilte-fish!

(German precision HB Pencil on exotic finest bond A4 paper.
Higher resolution samples available on bribes.)

$0.50 extra if to be signed by artist.

Yep. Just fifty bux for this messterpeace. All proceeds go to helping crippled little kiddies you tight unfeeling bastards!

[Michael K Gray]

You can keep your damn bridge then! We don't need no stake knives in France, we have garlic!

I believe that your froggy Joan d'Arc (wife of Noah) had an alternate plan as well. She chose the stake knaves.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

You can keep your damn bridge then! We don't need no stake knives in France, we have garlic!

I believe that your froggy Joan d'Arc (wife of Noah) had an alternate plan as well. She chose the stake knaves.

Eh, my first album's singer (Spanish Elisa C. Martin) made a song with her former band Dark moor called "Maid of Orléans"). End of the chorus goes "I was betrayed, I'm burning on the stake". I always heard "steak", which made me giggle. Yes, easy to entertain, I know...

[youtube]P5Ni-wrFwVs[/youtube]

[Michael K Gray]

You can keep your damn bridge then! We don't need no stake knives in France, we have garlic!

I believe that your froggy Joan d'Arc (wife of Noah) had an alternate plan as well. She chose the stake knaves.

Eh, my first album's singer (Spanish Elisa C. Martin) made a song with her former band Dark moor called "Maid of Orléans"). End of the chorus goes "I was betrayed, I'm burning on the stake". I always heard "steak", which made me giggle. Yes, easy to entertain, I know...
P5Ni-wrFwVs

OK, Abbot. What's my cut for being your straight-man/publicist?
Is it the usual 10/200 deal? For every $200 you get, I get 10 Centimes?
If not, I am outta here, flouncing next Wednesday. Definitely!
Or maybe Friday.
Or perhaps October...

[Apples]

So I hear Ahmadinejad has been leading a campaign of sexual harassment against women at conferences hugged a woman.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... ics-dismay

Apparently he's in a bit of trouble. Actually quite a lot, considering we are talking about a hug.

But if there's one thing our SJW friends have taught us, it's that hugs are serious business.

Tut tut, 'dinejad, *pounce hugs* are haraam except in Pharyngula Lounge or if the woman is drowning at sea.

[Apples]

Damn, those wiminz must be a bunch of twats, if the best they can produce about videogames with 160K is a vapid research like that.

Dude - The producer is a guy, and I doubt he's the only one involved in the production. Those involved in these videos may all be vapid twats, but they're not all women.

I know. I really hoped that the irony was visible...

mea culpa

[Apples]

The "tramp stamp" however, in my experience says not good long term relationship material.

There might be exceptions of course, and I could be wrong also, but that particular type of tattoo is firmly associated in my mind with a lifestyle that is not conducive to a stable family life.

Any man who marries a woman with a "tramp stamp" should not be surprised if she files for divorce within ten years.

My best friend has a "tramp stamp" (we call them "tatoo" in my neck of the wood), and she has been happily married for three years. Granted, to a Dominican salsa teacher who even I find extremely sexy. I'm not really convinced tatoos say anything about a person's character.

In 'merka the 'tramp stamp' tattoo is specifically a lower-back tattoo just above the ass - but I agree I'd need to see some data on whether it actually correlates with commitment. Anecdotally, it's not just for Jersey Shore types anymore - an amazing number of women have one, conclude what you will. Maybe Becky can research this for a future talk.

[daisyw]

The day that Rebecca Watson takes on 4chan would be fun to see. She'd disappear completely from the skeptic community if that happened. Which would be a good thing for everyone.

[Michael K Gray]

The "tramp stamp" however, in my experience says not good long term relationship material.

There might be exceptions of course, and I could be wrong also, but that particular type of tattoo is firmly associated in my mind with a lifestyle that is not conducive to a stable family life.

Any man who marries a woman with a "tramp stamp" should not be surprised if she files for divorce within ten years.

My best friend has a "tramp stamp" (we call them "tatoo" in my neck of the wood), and she has been happily married for three years. Granted, to a Dominican salsa teacher who even I find extremely sexy. I'm not really convinced tatoos say anything about a person's character.

In 'merka the 'tramp stamp' tattoo is specifically a lower-back tattoo just above the ass - but I agree I'd need to see some data on whether it actually correlates with commitment. Anecdotally, it's not just for Jersey Shore types anymore - an amazing number of women have one, conclude what you will. Maybe Becky can research this for a future talk.

2013 Soshul Justiss For the Wimmimz, Hoboken, Wheedlin' West Vagina.
DAY ONE.
Keynote Speaker: Gladys Q Frump. Janitor. Topic: Feminism in the REAL WORLD.
Followed by R. What's-on, Topic: Frat Tatts, and their evo-psych roots.
(Followed by a twelve hour workshop on how to amplify tepid feedback for fun and profit. $512 at the door.)

[EdwardGemmer]

Good article on Steubenville rape case from Dan Wetzel:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/highschool ... 58178.html

Within the working ranks of a hardscrabble region, they mock such claims. Inside the bar, where the libations are more like truth serum, one finds the real Steubenville – the doubts and divisions, the tension and sadness, the friends fighting over the actions of some high school kids. Here Davison is a joke, and here the town gossip spins, and here the battle lines are prominently drawn – the "cops/football" vs. "the girl."
"It's 80/20 for the cops/football," said the bartender. "It's all about football here."

[Pitchguest]

You can keep your damn bridge then! We don't need no stake knives in France, we have garlic!

I believe that your froggy Joan d'Arc (wife of Noah) had an alternate plan as well. She chose the stake knaves.

Eh, my first album's singer (Spanish Elisa C. Martin) made a song with her former band Dark moor called "Maid of Orléans"). End of the chorus goes "I was betrayed, I'm burning on the stake". I always heard "steak", which made me giggle. Yes, easy to entertain, I know...

[youtube]P5Ni-wrFwVs[/youtube]

Huh. One of the first albums I ever bought was "Hall of the Olden Dreams". I was twelve. Hmm.

Anyway. Bit of uninteresting trivia.

[JackSkeptic]

[Post 7773]

<snip>
Seems to me that it is rather difficult to “focus on more specific complaints” when many people – on both sides of these “rifts” – seem to have their thumbs on the scales, when they have an in-built bias to judge an issue, not “on its merits”, but on the side presenting it – largely a manifestation of groupthink and tribalism. I would say that “Job One” is to first get over that particular hurdle together. Although "Job Zero" might be to list those "specific complaints", the first of which might be "not approaching each issue on its merits" ….

Steersman you did an amazing job over there, everyone did.

Lots of very good comments from all and sundry [new user?] – “I'd say that we’re all in line for some important promotions and personal citations [even NoR] when this thing's over with” [so to speak] – with more than a few from “them”. Although I note in passing that they seem to have abandoned the field in some disarray. But I really don’t envy Michael trying to boil all of that down into something that he can use in his mediations – if that is his intent and plan.

I don't think there was a realistic chance at any breakthrough but if there was I feel focusing on ideology and definitions would have been more constructive than defining 'sides' which includes tribalism.

As suggested, I quite agree that “ideology and definitions” are a vitally important part of the process. However, a little difficult to agree on those points if they are strongly coloured or influenced by the group one happens to be part of. For instance, consider the difficulty just in deciding or agreeing whether “gendered insults” are sexist and misogynistic, or just simply rude and crude. And even the definition of “feminism” is all over the map, and a serious bone of contention. But you might want to take a look at this Wikipedia article section on morality from the point of view of “in-groups” and “out-groups”; in addition, the anthropologist John Hartung also has an interesting article on the topic as well (Love Thy Neighbor: The evolution of in-group morality).

This is bigger than just us and them. Much bigger. We just happen to be the noisy ones willing to stick our necks out.

Yes, I tend to agree with that, that there are some important issues hanging in the balance. Happened to watch yesterday a few bits and pieces of the recent talk by Dr. Janice Fiamengo at the University of Toronto on the topic of “What’s Wrong With Women’s Studies?” that Andrew mentioned the other day, and which is linked to by A Voice for Men. I don’t know exactly who she is, and how credible their claims are – it would help if AVfM or others would create some transcripts of her talks – but this summary from one of the videos suggests that, as indicated by the title, there is in fact something still quite seriously wrong if not actually rotten with “Women’s Studies”, at least in Canada:

She tackles the feminist idea that "feelings" are the intellect of women and are just as valuable as logic, reason, rationality and critical thinking.

Which would seem to qualify as some serious “woo”. And pretty much underlining the review – by some sensible feminists – of the book Professing Feminism which argued that many “Women’s Studies programs” exhibit an “isolationist attitude”, and a “virulent anti-science, anti-intellectual sentiment”. If the situation is half as bad as those sources suggest then, yes, I would most definitely say that “this is bigger than just us and them”.

Having said that they hardly turned up in droves anyway and it was a set up from the start in my opinion.

No they didn’t – apart from people like Stepanie Zvan who popped in to bleat about supposed lies being told about her, and “commitments to dialog”, and then proceeded to skedaddle, never to be heard from again, without even once attempting to refute said lies or actually engage in the dialog she supposedly wanted.

But I think you’re wrong to argue that it was a “set up from the start”, particularly on so little evidence. While you might be right, my impression from a number of comments here and on his site is that Michael was involved in some capacity in brokering some peace in Ireland which would suggest some degree of honesty and equanimity. And even if he hadn’t been I would still be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, contingent, of course, on further developments.
 

Yes agree with all that. However I meant set up by FtB. They couldn't lose although I hate this win/lose thing, it is about finding common ground and a way for everyone to just agree to disagree and stop trying to control. I agree that Michael is an honest, if badly informed, broker. The problem I have with him is his actions and words do not match. I've done delicate negotiating myself (in legal/business issues) and there are certain golden rules you must follow or all trust is lost. This is irrespective of any side you may be on.

His first post destroyed a lot of that trust so I challenge the idea he knows what he is doing despite his background. I think he expected an easy route. If he attacked FtB the way he attacked us no conversation would have happened at all. However as people here tend not to cry and run away at the slightest offence we dealt with it instead.

Anyway what is done is done.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

The "tramp stamp" however, in my experience says not good long term relationship material.

There might be exceptions of course, and I could be wrong also, but that particular type of tattoo is firmly associated in my mind with a lifestyle that is not conducive to a stable family life.

Any man who marries a woman with a "tramp stamp" should not be surprised if she files for divorce within ten years.

My best friend has a "tramp stamp" (we call them "tatoo" in my neck of the wood), and she has been happily married for three years. Granted, to a Dominican salsa teacher who even I find extremely sexy. I'm not really convinced tatoos say anything about a person's character.

In 'merka the 'tramp stamp' tattoo is specifically a lower-back tattoo just above the ass - but I agree I'd need to see some data on whether it actually correlates with commitment. Anecdotally, it's not just for Jersey Shore types anymore - an amazing number of women have one, conclude what you will. Maybe Becky can research this for a future talk.

Yeah, I know what a tramp-stamp is, I was just saying that here they don't get a particular nomenclature. They're just called tatoos. And they don't get a particular connotation either. Sometimes, it really seems US culture is a bit backward, and to some degree, still deeply seated in frat-boys culture. That's one observation I'd grant the SJWs, up to a point. And I might be wrong about it. Just an outsider's (former insider's) view.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Huh. One of the first albums I ever bought was "Hall of the Olden Dreams". I was twelve. Hmm.

Anyway. Bit of uninteresting trivia.

On the contrary! Means you had good tastes. At 12...

[Pitchguest]

Huh. One of the first albums I ever bought was "Hall of the Olden Dreams". I was twelve. Hmm.

Anyway. Bit of uninteresting trivia.

On the contrary! Means you had good tastes. At 12...

Oi! :lol:

Seriously, though, I think that might have been when I first got into power metal. I'd only listened to Maiden until then, which sadly the only album I'd ever listened to was X Factor. So you can imagine my confusion a few years later when Brave New World was released. "Hang on, this doesn't sound like the other singer at all!" :doh:

[katamari Damassi]

I'm getting sick of listening to the computer gamers here whining about this game or that being or not being sexist/misogynisitic/racist/whateverthefuck. If you want a game with exactly the characters, motivations and storyline you want all you have to do is unplug the console and paly an RPG the way it was meant to be played: a bunch of people sitting around a table, rolling dice, passing a bong and creating their own world as the gameplay evolves.

And while you're at it, you kids can get off my fucking lawn too.

:lol: You're giving them ideas. If a New Media Shill starts whining Fantasy RPG artwork from thirty to forty years ago, I'm blaming you.

"The dragon on the front cover of the original D&D boxset is being oppressed by the Patriarchy, now where is my Salon writing job?"

I still play D and D.

I claim the prize for the saddest geek at the Slympit. Resistance is futile.

I'm envious. I would love to play table top D&D again. I even have a group of friends who are into it, but we just never seem able to make it happen.

[katamari Damassi]

PZ posts "Congratulations to FBB and Greta Christina!"

The Foundation Beyond Belief raised $430,000 for the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society and cancer research.

Last year the Foundation named Christopher Hitchens as their honored hero to represent the struggle against cancer. This year, it’s FtB’s very own Greta Christina. Give her a thumbs up…and most importantly, they’re trying to raise more money this year, so donate if you can!

Obediently, 3 of the 4 commenters congratulate Greta. (The 4th was on the CFI-Los Angeles team that was one of the top fundraisers for the Light the Night drive this year.)

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... -christina

Foundation Beyond Belief's mention of her is in the last paragraph at the link in PZ's post:

Every four minutes, someone is diagnosed with a blood cancer. Together, we can make that prospect a little less frightening. Please join International Team Captain Todd Stiefel, 2013 Honored Hero Greta Christina, and our national partners in supporting this cause.

Greta Christina's post on it gives more of a sandwich, starting and ending with comments on FBB & the Lymphoma & Leukemia Society, & in the middle quotes a longer blurb from FBB (that I hadn't otherwise seen at their site) that includes this information that I haven't seen anywhere before:

She has a presumptive diagnosis of Lynch Syndrome (a diagnosis based on family history), which significantly increases the odds of getting certain kinds of cancers, including endometrial and colon.

I commend Greta on her more detailed description of the charitable efforts, and on how she closed her post:

I’ll be writing more about this when I’m not on the road. For now, I’ll just say that I am hugely touched. If you want to participate with the Foundation Beyond Belief in the Light the Night Walk, here’s how to do it. Let’s show the world just how good we can be without God!

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2013/ ... elief-lls/

Good for her. The most important information is about the disease that's being targeted, and the efforts to raise funds & awareness. The choice of a particular person as a spokesperson/etc is secondary, even if it's yourself or a friend.

(I notice that no-one actually having or having had leukemia or lymphoma is mentioned; is the implication that one cancer is much like the next? Ah, but 'tis a quibble.)

Disclaimer: I am a sustaining donor to FBB but had nothing to do with the choice of Greta for this or any other role with them

As a lymphoma survivor I'm pretty ambivalent about this. Seriously? Greta Christina? Is this foundation going to send fluevogs to the patients?

[windy]

Woman shows off 'world's strongest vagina'

[youtube]x2ZkH31KfB0[/youtube]

[Michael K Gray]

I'm envious. I would love to play table top D&D again. I even have a group of friends who are into it, but we just never seem able to make it happen.

[youtube]iztRfwxiq28[/youtube]

[Richard Dworkins]

I may be wrong about this, but wasn't the "tramp-stamp" (terrible name) originally a way that pornographers would essentially "brand" their stable of "actresses"?

[Michael K Gray]

I may be wrong about this, but wasn't the "tramp-stamp" (terrible name) originally a way that pornographers would essentially "brand" their stable of "actresses"?

You must be thinking of the Pharyngula unstables.
Every female is self-branded as a "bitch-whore" of something-or-other.

I once bought some vintage pornography, but didn't have a pornograph on which to play it.
Pity.

I wonder if they have any on Eeeee-bay.

[Pitchguest]

Lovely, isn't it? I mean, don't get me wrong, it's great that FBB has managed to raise so much (record amount, too, it seems), but putting Greta Christina at the helm?

This would be the same Greta Christina who begged for donations to pay for her rent and stuff (for which she got enough and more) as she was getting ready for cancer treatment (and wouldn't be able to work), only days after receiving treatment was back in the chair and then didn't donate any of the extra money she got to charity (like she said she might) but decided to buy overly expensive shoes instead? Not at least putting it in for investment later should everything go south, but designer shoes.

Meanwhile our own Renee Hendricks' husband is struggling with his own strain of cancer, getting his lymph nodes and a piece of his tongue removed, and I doubt they have excess to buy nearly $300 shoes. Oh dear. Oh well. Best of luck to her.

[Dick Strawkins]

I agree that Michael is an honest, if badly informed, broker. The problem I have with him is his actions and words do not match.

Whatever about Nugent's original motives (which to my mind, involved painting the slymepit as some sort of nasty hit squad, targeting uppity women), I think the way it panned out was very revealing.
It showed me an important point that I hadn't really seen illustrated before, namely that when you take away the arguments based purely on moral superiority, the FTB crowd have nothing left. It is no surprise that they cannot argue on the evidence, we've known that for the past two years. What was surprising for me, at least, was the realization that the moral superiority arguments - as in the lists of shit Nugent pulled out of the Slymepit - are so easily neutralized by repeating the same procedure back at them. Nugent had no answer to the lists of shit Atheist Ireland had on their forum. He had to simply back down and apologize, his moral high horse fatally wounded.
I think this shows the value of things like Tigzy's thread on the violent threats frequently made by the FTB horde. Just collecting them together gives a great resource to use against them whenever they appear on neutral forums calling for shunning of slympitters.

[katamari Damassi]

The "tramp stamp" however, in my experience says not good long term relationship material.

There might be exceptions of course, and I could be wrong also, but that particular type of tattoo is firmly associated in my mind with a lifestyle that is not conducive to a stable family life.

Any man who marries a woman with a "tramp stamp" should not be surprised if she files for divorce within ten years.

My best friend has a "tramp stamp" (we call them "tatoo" in my neck of the wood), and she has been happily married for three years. Granted, to a Dominican salsa teacher who even I find extremely sexy. I'm not really convinced tatoos say anything about a person's character.

I think tramp stamps started in the gay community in the late 80's early 90's, when those tribal styles became popular, but now a lot of gay guys are embarrassed about them. While I don't have a tramp stamp I do have a few tats-mostly celtic zoomorphs.

[Michael K Gray]

Just collecting them together gives a great resource to use against them whenever they appear on neutral forums calling for shunning of slympitters.

Aye. A store of anti-matters, Cap'n?
Ya know. For annihilating their wee Klingons, as though it mattered.

[Richard Dworkins]

I may be wrong about this, but wasn't the "tramp-stamp" (terrible name) originally a way that pornographers would essentially "brand" their stable of "actresses"?

You must be thinking of the Pharyngula unstables.
Every female is self-branded as a "bitch-whore" of something-or-other.

I once bought some vintage pornography, but didn't have a pornograph on which to play it.
Pity.

I wonder if they have any on Eeeee-bay.

Sour grapes about pornography there. If you have a pre-1973 Pye portable record player, it still has a 69rpm setting.

You make an interesting point which I think I may have mentioned when I first arrived. All this "Awesome Sex Flower, Laser Pervert and Blood drenched Warrior Goddess" self-aggrandisement makes them sound like they are one badly made semen and tear drenched Anime costume away from being otherkin.

[Michael K Gray]

I think tramp stamps started in the gay community in the late 80's early 90's, when those tribal styles became popular, but now a lot of gay guys are embarrassed about them.

Hate to break it to you, but they were popular at least 40,000 years ago here in OZtraya.
Possibly 60,000 years ago.

[franc]

In 'merka the 'tramp stamp' tattoo is specifically a lower-back tattoo just above the ass

Yeah, I know what a tramp-stamp is

I call them "beer coasters". For when you're at it doggy style.

[JackSkeptic]

I agree that Michael is an honest, if badly informed, broker. The problem I have with him is his actions and words do not match.

Whatever about Nugent's original motives (which to my mind, involved painting the slymepit as some sort of nasty hit squad, targeting uppity women), I think the way it panned out was very revealing.
It showed me an important point that I hadn't really seen illustrated before, namely that when you take away the arguments based purely on moral superiority, the FTB crowd have nothing left. It is no surprise that they cannot argue on the evidence, we've known that for the past two years. What was surprising for me, at least, was the realization that the moral superiority arguments - as in the lists of shit Nugent pulled out of the Slymepit - are so easily neutralized by repeating the same procedure back at them. Nugent had no answer to the lists of shit Atheist Ireland had on their forum. He had to simply back down and apologize, his moral high horse fatally wounded.
I think this shows the value of things like Tigzy's thread on the violent threats frequently made by the FTB horde. Just collecting them together gives a great resource to use against them whenever they appear on neutral forums calling for shunning of slympitters.

Moreover the posts on AI we're considerably worse. I think most agree that a personal insult about someone's behaviour with swear words, such as calling someone a dick, is nothing compared to branding someone's whole belief system as offensive (such as calling someone a misogynist) It is particularly annoying as it is done with no evidence and happily pushes the logical fallacy of guilt by association.

FtB have nothing as they consider emotions and therefore personal experience and feelings to be a valid intellectual tool to establish facts. No evidence required. If someone is upsetting me they are de facto immoral and in the wrong. Intent is not magic etc. This is a highly irrational way to form a belief system and as you said as soon as it is challenged it melts away. That is why shunning and banning is a favourite tool of theirs. It allows them to maintain their twisted moral high ground, provides an echo chamber to reinforce their beliefs and effectively lie when necessary to their followers. All this without their beliefs being exposed as fraudulent to the outside world.

It has the added bonus of excluding people from a community. It is no coincidence the people going to AI hold the same beliefs, how free thought is that? It goes against everything a rationalist stands for.

Their antics at trying to paint us in the worst light, playing the victim and taking offence at the drop of a hat feeds into their own ideology and methods and people like Nugent fall for it.

To me they are nothing more than a cult.

[Michael K Gray]

All this "Awesome Sex Flower, Laser Pervert and Blood drenched Warrior Goddess" self-aggrandisement makes them sound like they are one badly made semen and tear drenched Anime costume away from being otherkin.

I could hardly have phrased it more poetically.
Carol Ann Duffy:- watch out.

It is like most Yank-wank bragging.
A cover for extreme inadequacy, often tragically manifest in the see-saw replacement for a lack of confidence with an abundance of firearms.
It goes the other way, too.
One of my mates has as a bloody-insane vicious pit-bull terrier to which he refers as "Petal".

Those with extreme internet monikers, are often the opposite in real life.

For example "Free Thought Blogs".
It is the complete opposite of all 3 words.

[Lsuoma]

fuck punctuation i go ee cummings from now

Hehe. You said 'cum'.

heheheh...so did you...heheheheh

This video games discussion is starting to be a bit tedious. I mostly play flight simulators these days, and we all know a plane is a phallic symbol.

Fucking sexist pigs!

Flippant you may be!! But we all know that most pilots are men, because the airline industry is sexist. Which means your flight sim is bound to be based on a man flying the plane. So yeah, that is sexist too.

Right. After all, it's called the cockpit, not the cuntpit.

[JackSkeptic]

The "tramp stamp" however, in my experience says not good long term relationship material.

There might be exceptions of course, and I could be wrong also, but that particular type of tattoo is firmly associated in my mind with a lifestyle that is not conducive to a stable family life.

Any man who marries a woman with a "tramp stamp" should not be surprised if she files for divorce within ten years.

My best friend has a "tramp stamp" (we call them "tatoo" in my neck of the wood), and she has been happily married for three years. Granted, to a Dominican salsa teacher who even I find extremely sexy. I'm not really convinced tatoos say anything about a person's character.

I think tramp stamps started in the gay community in the late 80's early 90's, when those tribal styles became popular, but now a lot of gay guys are embarrassed about them. While I don't have a tramp stamp I do have a few tats-mostly celtic zoomorphs.

When I was a kid we couldn't afford tattoos so we would do them ourselves (think of Ozzy Ozbourne and his love/hate one on his knuckles) Thankfully as I was better at doing them for friends I never got round to doing one for myself.

So you lot with your 'tramp stamps' are showing your privilege. In my day...blah...blah....

[EdwardGemmer]

They are full of emotion. That's fine, some people are more emotional than others. However, if you get rid of all the people who question them, they never have any reason to question their own emotions, so they just rage on from one topic to the next and rarely add anything of value other than being Really Mad at Someone who Did Something!

[Michael K Gray]

In 'merka the 'tramp stamp' tattoo is specifically a lower-back tattoo just above the ass

Yeah, I know what a tramp-stamp is

I call them "beer coasters". For when you're at it doggy style.

Now, franc - that's just bullshit.
I've tried it on more than one occasion, and on the slightest "excitement", the schooner tips over.
And there is only so much frantic licking that one is able to perform in order to not waist a round.
Coasters? Huh!

[franc]

I've sometimes wondered if that is all we're doing, driving cash into their pockets and providing exposure. Yes, we are. But I feel if we stop they will become more of a menace to the AS community and that's more important to me. However, I largely ignore A+ now as they are irrelevant, I just go there for the entertainment.

I tend to disagree. They are bleeding. They are starting to feel the pain of falling revenue and site traffic.

I agree with this analysis. Again, the similarities with the retreat of theists online and off is not a coincidence, IMO. Just like with theists, the course of action to take is continued persistence and confrontation with evidence, in front of public audiences. There will be flare ups, but they will get more and more obviously ridiculous, and more and more people will see through them. Eventually, they will lose all credibility. It's inevitable, *if* we collectively persist in our individual actions.

We've had similar discussions elsewhere - and I'll just repeat a brief synopsis. Thinking in terms of winning or losing is wrong. This kind of nonsense has always existed and will always exist. All that happens is the volume of the noise fluctuates. The best you can ever hope for is to turn the volume down to the point it is no longer a constant nuisance. Drive them back to their campus identity politic ghettos, let them have all of the skepchick parties they want and sling as much dung as they like - as long as it doesn't bother the rest of us and we can get back to focussing on what counts: keeping the god freaks out of our lives.

[Dick Strawkins]

Just in case anyone has any delusions that Nugent's 'Atheist Ireland' organization is some kind of neutral broker, you only have to look at the main picture on their facebook page.
I recognize Peezus, Watson and Aron Ra.

http://i.imgur.com/LW7MntZ.jpg

Nugent's just sucking up to the D-listers.

[Michael K Gray]

They are full of emotion. That's fine, some people are more emotional than others. However, if you get rid of all the people who question them, they never have any reason to question their own emotions, so they just rage on from one topic to the next and rarely add anything of value other than being Really Mad at Someone who Did Something!

Without context, you sound like Grandpa Simpson in an old folks' home, railing against imagined WW2 Japanese soldiers.

Here. Have your mourning Haloperidol.