If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

Remick wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:

welch wrote:
Bullshit. She COMPLETELY ignored cultural influences on the designers of both video games. The fact someone ELSE did not doesn't erase the fact that Sarkeesian did. What the fuck dude, you keep trying to make it sound like she did anything but the bare minimum for a "C" on her little video book report. Why?

Because for her to get a C, there has to be someone else who can at least get an A. I haven't had time to explore the entire internet for youtube videos about women and games, but please link me to any that are far superior. She talked at length about the history of the damsel in distress - King Kong, World War 2, Popeye, etc. I think it is legitimate criticism to say she didn't bring up the Japanese culture in the development of these games, but hey, legitimate criticism adds to the discussion. The games she brings up were still wildly, wildly popular in the United States and it's not like the United States had never encountered the trope before Japan brought it to them.

So Mario was popular because he was a fat italian guy, or because it was the best platforming game to come out at that time.

Back then, with small teams making these games, 95% of the effort went into gameplay, graphics and level design. You can see it start to branch out in the 90s as there was more competition then.

Stating nintendo games in the mid-late 80s were popular is like saying a lot of people went to see the first movies. OK, and? Was it actually about the message in the movies or was it about the fact that there were now "moving" pictures? Early games were about the technology and figuring out what gameplay was popular, couple that with 95% of developers being male(who would shocking make the characters male) and there you go. Let's see, spend a lot of billable hours working on a story, or shoehorn old fable involving princess in tower guarded by dragon as story, hire 3 less people... sounds good!

I totally agree. This isn't about judging people who made videogames in the 80's. OTOH, it is 2013. Mario games still don't have playable women characters, so there is time to think about why this is.

Freeze peach. Oh god I hope nobody notices I don't have a distinct personality and sense of humour, they're looking right at me. FREEZE PEACH!

*awkwardly laughs*

Freeze peach.

I'll post this here since the Nugent threads seem to have died down...

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/08 ... ent-198116

Wowbagger wrote:But they don’t want to hear about feminism or social justice. Why? Because they don’t care about those things. They want to hear about how evil the religious are. They want to be reminded just how stupid people who believe in bigfoot are. They want to drink and laugh about how superior they are to ignorant, cognitively dissonant woo-peddlers of all stripes because it makes them feel good about themselves.

Feminism, of course, doesn’t do that – in fact, for many of them it’s quite the opposite, since it forces them to acknowledge that the things they do are sometimes bad (not irredeemably bad, but bad nonetheless) and they need to think about that and – gasp – maybe even think about changing their behavior to make things better for women.

Hence why one of the people they’re angriest at is PZ, since he used to be almost entirely about sticking it to the godbots (hard) but who started to include a lot more social justice in his posts.

So what we need to stress it that it’s more a case of “Wake up. The atheist community isn’t an exclusive white dude-bro frat party anymore. You’re still going to get to hear the about the stuff that makes you feel superior, but every now and then you’re going to have to deal with the fact that there are people who aren’t you who want to discuss things important to them.”

Is this projected guilt about being a fan of PZ for his atheism blogging and belatedly waking up to social justice issues? If "sticking it to the godbots" is only attractive to "dudebros", wouldn't that mean that Pharyngula was an "exclusive white dude-bro frat party" until PZ started talking about feminism? (Hint: it wasn't.)

What these newly converted don't seem to get is that some of us have been capable of getting our social justice jollies elsewhere without explicit instruction from PZ. I'll grant him the part about laughing at "ignorant, cognitively dissonant woo-peddlers of all stripes", though.

welch wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:
Look, I don't know what your grading standards are. Her video clearly has a point, has many, many examples, she shows her work, and the presentation is great. What is she missing?

any form of original thought? something that isn't a regurgitation of what other people have done? Not mistaking adeptness with software as talent?

the presentation is something a high school film student could do. FUck, do you think that kind of video is hard nowadays? An even HALF-decent camera, a copy of premier pro or final cut pro, a mike that doesn't suck for the voiceover work and a decent laptop is all you need. Five grand gets you the gear. Maybe six if you want nice fast hard drives and many of them.

That's the hardware cost for this shit, and i'm including the video game consoles.

I don't have any of that stuff or five grand to spend on it, so I don't know (and don't care). I can appreciate movies without sitting there thinking about how much money they spent on making them and whether it should have cost that much. I don't care. Either it is good or not good. I can understand - Sarkeesian did not go into things you would prefer her to talk about. However, for what is presented, she did a great job. But it is also incomplete - even the damsels in distress part still has at least another part to it.

Jack wrote:
The whole tribalism discussion is a total distractor and a waste of time, the same as the arguments about who is the most moral.

The whole of Nugent's approach missed what is important about this, the clash of ideas. That's what my last post there was trying to convey but it's like pissing in the wind as people wander off to discuss irrelevances instead of sticking to the whole point of disagreement.

In the meantime I hope some from FtB come here but if gets to a 'He said this, she said that' discussion or stuck on petty semantics it won't get anywhere.

I don't think it is a waste of time - it actually makes a lot of sense. Why do otherwise reasonably intelligent people turn off their brains and attack others mased on insignificant or imaginary differences? The idea of tribalism and loyalty seems to be the most likely culprit. Where it fails is where it assumes all tribes are the same. Clearly the slymepit values things like free speech and respect for diversity as important, whereas places like Pharyngula value yelling the f word.

cunt wrote:Hopefully in the next mario game they'll give him massive tits and a 18 inch dildo instead of Yoshi. Now he battles patriarchy and societally enforced gender-roles.

I hope that he can't walk or wear shoes because that enforces ableism.

jimthepleb wrote:fuck punctuation i go ee cummings from now

Hehe. You said 'cum'.

EdwardGemmer wrote:

cunt wrote:Hopefully in the next mario game they'll give him massive tits and a 18 inch dildo instead of Yoshi. Now he battles patriarchy and societally enforced gender-roles.

I hope that he can't walk or wear shoes because that enforces ableism.

Of course not. Marios legs were blown off by an IED.

Wowbagger wrote:[...] They want to drink and laugh about how superior they are [...] because it makes them feel good about themselves. Feminism, of course, [...]

This!

Wowbagger wrote:[...] doesn’t do that – in fact, for many of them it’s quite the opposite, [...]

Awww, nooo! That was close. He almost had me.

EdwardGemmer wrote:

Jack wrote:
The whole tribalism discussion is a total distractor and a waste of time, the same as the arguments about who is the most moral.

The whole of Nugent's approach missed what is important about this, the clash of ideas. That's what my last post there was trying to convey but it's like pissing in the wind as people wander off to discuss irrelevances instead of sticking to the whole point of disagreement.

In the meantime I hope some from FtB come here but if gets to a 'He said this, she said that' discussion or stuck on petty semantics it won't get anywhere.

I don't think it is a waste of time - it actually makes a lot of sense. Why do otherwise reasonably intelligent people turn off their brains and attack others mased on insignificant or imaginary differences? The idea of tribalism and loyalty seems to be the most likely culprit. Where it fails is where it assumes all tribes are the same. Clearly the slymepit values things like free speech and respect for diversity as important, whereas places like Pharyngula value yelling the f word.

Because it gets nowhere. It changes nothing. Any conclusion has no utility. It does not further the argument. More over it totally misses the point that in order to reach any understanding there has to be a free exchange of ideas.

That was completely ignored by Nugent and several commentators. Waste of time. I posted about that on the link I gave which made it clearer. An opportunity was missed as the few from FtB (such as Oolon who loves drama) and Eu managed to completely derail what may have been a more fruitful discussion. Those that did that were best ignored as it shouted down all the reasonable posts of which there were many. There was too much noise about irrelevancies.

Altair wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote: There can be no doubt that games were and are marketed to boys and men. I don't think it is even a problem, and Sarkeesian doesn't exactly present it as some sort of evidence of the evil Nintendo. More, it is an observation - one that can be easily modified now, as evidenced by the guy who modified Donkey Kong. The Damsel in Distress is a cliche - of course women can be a "prize." Men's whole lives can be more or less premised on the idea that being more successful can lead to more sex. Video games which tap into our fantasies are no different.

I would agree with the "were" part but not so sure about the "are". I think they are now marketed to both genders, and that's what's brought the change in male/female characters ratio.
Videogames are a business. I don't think companies care a lot about social justice, but they care about the money they make. And if they find out that there's a lot of girls/women out there who want to buy games, and would buy more if they had a certain type of characters, they probably will end up making that kind of game to boost their sales.

I don't think Sarkeesian presents as evidence of the evil Nintendo, but from what I can gather she presents it as evidence of a sexist against women mindset. I think that's a too simplistic analysis. After all, the fact that tomb raider, resident evil, portal and mirror's edge have female protagonists says nothing about sexism against men.
I think those games can be used to analyze the culture of a time and place, and maybe even to wonder about men's and women's way of thinking, and how all these things influence the media, but it seems to me that she's just looking for examples to increase women's victim points.

For example, the original Silent Hill game has a father brave all the ghosts and monsters in the town in order to save his daughter. In the movie, the character was replaced by the girl's mother. Some people think it was done because women look more vulnerable and would increase the tension. Some people think it was because society considers that a father cannot love their children and just risk everything to protect them, like a mother would. One of them is sexist against women, one of them against men.

Is it one thing? Both? none? This thing requires a deeper analysis, one that doesn't start with the premise of "there is sexism and it's directed against women".

True, though in Sarkeesian's defense, her first video was not about sexism in videogames but about the history of the damsel in distress trope. Her second video promises to address a point you brought up - how are things now for this trope? OTOH the great thing about something that is good is that people can take multiple things away from it. No doubt Phayngula will take away that Nintendo has a plot to destroy women, while people with brains may take away something else entirely. It is interesting to see how videogames reflect what companies think we want to buy and play.

jimthepleb wrote:LAIDEEEES and Gnlmn we announce the retirement of the 9000 time champion steersman for most Pointless obtuse and verbose poster for our NEW CHALLENGER Edward the Teddy Gemmer in a match we have called Descent into the Depths of Well meaning compromise.
Look we all would like to be fair to them, but are these sjw's playing by the rules of 'standard social discourse'?

I will take this vague criticism as evidence that you hate everyone named Edward. 700 oppression points to me. Please read Edward Justice 101 before speaking again.

EdwardGemmer wrote:True, though in Sarkeesian's defense, her first video was not about sexism in videogames but about the history of the damsel in distress trope. Her second video promises to address a point you brought up - how are things now for this trope? OTOH the great thing about something that is good is that people can take multiple things away from it. No doubt Phayngula will take away that Nintendo has a plot to destroy women, while people with brains may take away something else entirely. It is interesting to see how videogames reflect what companies think we want to buy and play.

Damsel in Distress -- Be warned, TVTropes ruins your life.

cunt wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:

cunt wrote:Hopefully in the next mario game they'll give him massive tits and a 18 inch dildo instead of Yoshi. Now he battles patriarchy and societally enforced gender-roles.

I hope that he can't walk or wear shoes because that enforces ableism.

Of course not. Marios legs were blown off by an IED.

And Luigi blew his butt off.

Wow, Crommunist has really been pumping out content lately. It's basically all the FtB splooge, distilled into a fairly concise few posts. Not bad, even if it is mostly in service of stupidity.

EdwardGemmer wrote:

jimthepleb wrote:LAIDEEEES and Gnlmn we announce the retirement of the 9000 time champion steersman for most Pointless obtuse and verbose poster for our NEW CHALLENGER Edward the Teddy Gemmer in a match we have called Descent into the Depths of Well meaning compromise.
Look we all would like to be fair to them, but are these sjw's playing by the rules of 'standard social discourse'?

I will take this vague criticism as evidence that you hate everyone named Edward. 700 oppression points to me. Please read Edward Justice 101 before speaking again.

And Steersman. And those who are nautically inclined ....

Jan Steen wrote:http://i.imgur.com/gaYAYWD.jpg

Love it!

Percentage wrote:Wow, Crommunist has really been pumping out content lately. It's basically all the FtB splooge, distilled into a fairly concise few posts. Not bad, even if it is mostly in service of stupidity.

I wish he weren't so sensitive, because he has lots of interesting things to say and talk about.

Jan Steen wrote: http://i.imgur.com/gaYAYWD.jpg

:lol: You're getting better and better all the time ... :-)

EdwardGemmer wrote:
I watched most of it, but honestly, I'm not that interested in the moral character of Anita Sarkeesian. I don't know her, she isn't watching my kids, she's not my neighbor, so I don't care if she once moderated someone's YouTube comment. Her video is good. That's it. I can't speak for her ethics or morals. I'm not a fan of trying to find ways to dismiss things that clearly have value. For example, the Crommunist had a big hissyfit because I was posting on his blog and he didn't like that. For whatever reason, he didn't want me posting there. Maybe he thinks I'm a racistsexist slymepitter, maybe he just hates white men, maybe he just can't handle disagreement, I don't know. He insulted me and my family and called me out on his blog and on Twitter. There is no reason for me to personally like him, but I told him, and still maintain, that he does a good job with his blog. He often makes interesting posts and clearly tries to think outside the box. The fact he doesn't like me is no reason for me to dismiss everything he ever says.

Similarly, I don't know what Sarkeesian has or hasn't said in the past. I saw one video attacking her master's thesis. So what/ It doesn't matter who she is as a person, because I don't value her for her great morals. I just like her videos.

He could have left out some of the character stuff, sure, but I thought he landed enough solid blows on the substance of her argument to make the video worthwhile.

The video on her master's thesis (do you mean part 1 of the video I linked?) exposes her biases and some essential flaws in her reasoning that have carried over into her critiques of pop culture. I certainly won't hold it against you that you like her videos. Personally, I think her arguments are too one-sided and oversimplified to contribute to the debate.

Jan Steen wrote:http://i.imgur.com/gaYAYWD.jpg

Consider me another fanboi who is unworthy to even grovel at your feet in adoration.

windy wrote:

Jack wrote: The whole tribalism discussion is a total distractor and a waste of time, the same as the arguments about who is the most moral.

I agree, it's just a smokescreen. The "dialogue" threads always seem to attract those FTB defenders who don't believe in dialogue and insist in repeating that over and over. But the problem with trying to discuss ideas at this point is that the well has been poisoned, filled in and cemented over.

Don’t think I can really agree with that, at least the first part. Seems to me that one of the primary criticisms that “we” have – though it is not the only thing that unites this “tribe” – of FTB and company is they tend to be problematically prone to group-think. And while I think Chas has a bit of bias on the question – I see that you’ve also noticed that he has recently flounced from that discussion on Nugent’s post – I also think he has some justification in suggesting that there is some evidence of that here. For several examples of many, the apparent pile-ons here over Watson’s “Galileogate”, Sally Strange’s supposed authorship of a rape threat against herself, and the accusations floating about recently that Oolon was the source of the Benson photoshop – which I note that only Tina seems to have apologized for.

Where I think Chas goes off the rails is in not being cognizant of some significant differences: group-think as an opinion imposed on slaves versus autonomous individuals thinking and reaching the same conclusion even if that might be based on common premises, particularly if those are open to review rather than being seen as infallible dogma.

But in a larger sense, I think the issue of group-think has a great degree of relevance to society in general, and that there is more than a little justification for using this little “love spat” we’re currently engaged in as an entrée to a greater understanding of the processes involved, their consequences, and their implications. For instance, and briefly (for a change) so as not to belabour the point excessively, I think there are some significant physiological processes that undergird group-think, and that it bears a great degree of resemblance to the swarming of locusts. And to the somewhat apocryphal urban legend that the menstrual cycles of women living in close quarters tend to synchronize. But one of the best and most tangible illustrations of that that I’ve seen was on Jerry Coyne’s site sometime ago of the synchronization of 32 metronomes:

[youtube]JWToUATLGzs[/youtube]

Certainly some benefits in group solidarity of one sort or another, a solidarity that is manifested or enforced by syncronization of type or another. Unfortunately or not, not all groups have the same degree of credibilty or worth.

EdwardGemmer wrote:

cunt wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:

cunt wrote:Hopefully in the next mario game they'll give him massive tits and a 18 inch dildo instead of Yoshi. Now he battles patriarchy and societally enforced gender-roles.

I hope that he can't walk or wear shoes because that enforces ableism.

Of course not. Marios legs were blown off by an IED.

And Luigi blew his butt off.

Luigi was held captive by the elite republican guard for 3 months. When they fled the city he used a shattered piece of glass to remove his hands and escape. He was eventually gunned down by american forces.

BannedAid wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:
I watched most of it, but honestly, I'm not that interested in the moral character of Anita Sarkeesian. I don't know her, she isn't watching my kids, she's not my neighbor, so I don't care if she once moderated someone's YouTube comment. Her video is good. That's it. I can't speak for her ethics or morals. I'm not a fan of trying to find ways to dismiss things that clearly have value. For example, the Crommunist had a big hissyfit because I was posting on his blog and he didn't like that. For whatever reason, he didn't want me posting there. Maybe he thinks I'm a racistsexist slymepitter, maybe he just hates white men, maybe he just can't handle disagreement, I don't know. He insulted me and my family and called me out on his blog and on Twitter. There is no reason for me to personally like him, but I told him, and still maintain, that he does a good job with his blog. He often makes interesting posts and clearly tries to think outside the box. The fact he doesn't like me is no reason for me to dismiss everything he ever says.

Similarly, I don't know what Sarkeesian has or hasn't said in the past. I saw one video attacking her master's thesis. So what/ It doesn't matter who she is as a person, because I don't value her for her great morals. I just like her videos.

He could have left out some of the character stuff, sure, but I thought he landed enough solid blows on the substance of her argument to make the video worthwhile.

The video on her master's thesis (do you mean part 1 of the video I linked?) exposes her biases and some essential flaws in her reasoning that have carried over into her critiques of pop culture. I certainly won't hold it against you that you like her videos. Personally, I think her arguments are too one-sided and oversimplified to contribute to the debate.

I think what I like is that she actually presents lots of facts in a pretty matter of fact and unemotional way. Too often we get people who substitute emotion and shame for facts because they are too lazy to do the work. Sarkeesian presents facts and is usually pretty light on the emotion and fearmongering, leaving all that to the people watching.

Is P'shopping your job, Jan Steen? Or just a hobby?

cunt wrote: Luigi was held captive by the elite republican guard for 3 months. When they fled the city he used a shattered piece of glass to remove his hands and escape. He was eventually gunned down by american forces.

[youtube]DHacaO7WK7Y[/youtube]

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:[youtube]UAeqVGP-GPM[/youtube]

:) :clap: +1 Internet

Not least for that being one of my favorite movies. And not least for the fact that I had been looking for some time for a clip that had that bit about “our president is a man of the people, but still a man ….”

Tigzy wrote:Course, the old girl couldn't resist. In fact, I think Ophie has found her new cunt-kick:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... sentiment/
http://www.freezepage.com/1363127732ENULBVVVQY

Intriguing that the tweet which piqued her curiosity wasn't directed at her - would be even more intriguing if she has Blackford blocked/unfollowed on twitter...

Ah, yes. Of course, when Nugget put up his post about how "slymepitters are writhing in agony about tasteless photoshop," Ophie claimed that he was "destroying her." So now she accidentally on purpose stumbled upon the dastardly image? Riiight. First she had to "stumble upon" Blackford's post (she reads his twitter because she is so interested in what he has to say), then she googled the unattributed quotation in Blackford's post (because if someone mentions Ophie she is on it like white on rice), then she perused the pit (because stalking and harassment and shock/horror) and WHOOPS clicked on a random link.... and then posted it on her own blog so her fans can feel her pain for eternity.

Well, Ophie, looks like you blew all your potential sympathy points on one post. This one's for you, Ophie:

[youtube]ism2a3KYg0c[/youtube]

cunt wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:

cunt wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:

cunt wrote:Hopefully in the next mario game they'll give him massive tits and a 18 inch dildo instead of Yoshi. Now he battles patriarchy and societally enforced gender-roles.

I hope that he can't walk or wear shoes because that enforces ableism.

Of course not. Marios legs were blown off by an IED.

And Luigi blew his butt off.

Luigi was held captive by the elite republican guard for 3 months. When they fled the city he used a shattered piece of glass to remove his hands and escape. He was eventually gunned down by american forces.

Hmmmm...

http://superhappycashcow.com/pic/Selene ... /luigi.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-aBz01_M6l1U/UHVM6 ... imgmax=800

Obviously Nintendo is sexist.

Re: Sarkeesian's video...

It was a decent demonstration of a trope that is in some games. That's about it.

Up front-I'm not a fan of hers, mainly because I think that feminism in western society is largely a load of horseshit to start with, and because I've already sensed a bit of manipulation and dishonesty in her previous stuff. For example, her tendency toward Watson/FTB style media manipulation, like how she never allows comments on her videos, and rarely if ever responds to legitimate criticism, but allowed all the trolls to troll up her fundraising video to demonstrate the horrible oppressiveness of internet culture. Cha-Ching! Here's $150,000, you poor, poor victim! She obviously buys into just about every feminist trope there is, and truly believes that women are some kind of victim class in the west. Therefore, I already doubt I'll find much of value in her opinions, but I'm willing to be wrong.

I'm with Welch in that I wouldn't mind seeing some actual analysis of video games and game culture, but I don't expect to agree with much. If she's gone to the effort to point out the trope, she must consider it a problem worth confronting....but why? Seriously, how does the Mario games being short on female lead characters hurt anyone? There have been plenty of gender-neutral games since the Atari 2600, and there have been female lead characters ever since the graphics were good enough to represent a female without it just being a blurry caricature of tits. There are games that pander to supposedly "feminine" values, instead of violence and action. There may still not be full gender parity in all aspects of video games, but why is complete parity a requirement? Most female gamers I know want some good female lead characters, and that's about it. None of them want anything more feminist than that, as far as I've seen. They don't take games for real life anymore than they take action movies for real life. I would rather see some analysis of why she thinks a few tropes are a problem in so wide a market. Some video game designers chose to utilize simple, centuries-old storylines that are still popular.....so the fuck what? Show me that some harm is actually being done, and I might give a fuck. I'm also of the opinion that the wider acceptance of video game culture will lead to market solutions that will be faster and more effective than anything that activist analysis can accomplish.

Anyway, I'll give her future videos in the series an honest shot, but based on past content, I'm not expecting to be impressed.

Personally, I'd like to see more female villains, but unless they are portrayed as fully fleshed-out characters and sensitive, tragic anti-heroes, I doubt many feminists would be thrilled about THAT particular gender parity (although my SO would love it).

Apples wrote:

Tigzy wrote:Course, the old girl couldn't resist. In fact, I think Ophie has found her new cunt-kick:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... sentiment/
http://www.freezepage.com/1363127732ENULBVVVQY

Intriguing that the tweet which piqued her curiosity wasn't directed at her - would be even more intriguing if she has Blackford blocked/unfollowed on twitter...

Ah, yes. Of course, when Nugget put up his post about how "slymepitters are writhing in agony about tasteless photoshop," Ophie claimed that he was "destroying her." So now she accidentally on purpose stumbled upon the dastardly image? Riiight. First she had to "stumble upon" Blackford's post (she reads his twitter because she is so interested in what he has to say), then she googled the unattributed quotation in Blackford's post (because if someone mentions Ophie she is on it like white on rice), then she perused the pit (because stalking and harassment and shock/horror) and WHOOPS clicked on a random link.... and then posted it on her own blog so her fans can feel her pain for eternity.

Well, Ophie, looks like you blew all your potential sympathy points on one post. This one's for you, Ophie:

[youtube]ism2a3KYg0c[/youtube]

Her gullible sycophants will lap it up. Kerching!!

1. Blame us (not our fault as well evidenced in several places)

2. Say we hate ugly old people (not true we felt it went over the line as said in several places)

Her followers must be the biggest bunch of fools going if they buy into her story. If that's the pinnacle of SJW' intellect no wonder why they need Captain Pony to train them on how to think.

Percentage wrote:FWIW, I enjoyed Sarkeesian's gamer video. You can't deny that the video game industry is extremely male-dominated, and has been since its inception; I don't see anything wrong with deconstructing that, especially since video games have become more mainstream and thus culturally important in the past decade. I think I can concede all that without joining the batshit brigade. There's a middle ground to be found here.

I'm looking forward to her second video.

Her video is so deep, that an ant could cross it with water on its ankles.

Her video would be OK as an Youtube production - not much different from what the Angry Video Game Nerd or Yatzee do. But she got one hundred and sixty buckaroos to make her shit. And that's the best she can produce? Damn, those wiminz must be a bunch of twats, if the best they can produce about videogames with 160K is a vapid research like that.

nippletwister wrote:Re: Sarkeesian's video...

It was a decent demonstration of a trope that is in some games. That's about it.

Up front-I'm not a fan of hers, mainly because I think that feminism in western society is largely a load of horseshit to start with, and because I've already sensed a bit of manipulation and dishonesty in her previous stuff. For example, her tendency toward Watson/FTB style media manipulation, like how she never allows comments on her videos, and rarely if ever responds to legitimate criticism, but allowed all the trolls to troll up her fundraising video to demonstrate the horrible oppressiveness of internet culture. Cha-Ching! Here's $150,000, you poor, poor victim! She obviously buys into just about every feminist trope there is, and truly believes that women are some kind of victim class in the west. Therefore, I already doubt I'll find much of value in her opinions, but I'm willing to be wrong.

I'm with Welch in that I wouldn't mind seeing some actual analysis of video games and game culture, but I don't expect to agree with much. If she's gone to the effort to point out the trope, she must consider it a problem worth confronting....but why? Seriously, how does the Mario games being short on female lead characters hurt anyone? There have been plenty of gender-neutral games since the Atari 2600, and there have been female lead characters ever since the graphics were good enough to represent a female without it just being a blurry caricature of tits. There are games that pander to supposedly "feminine" values, instead of violence and action. There may still not be full gender parity in all aspects of video games, but why is complete parity a requirement? Most female gamers I know want some good female lead characters, and that's about it. None of them want anything more feminist than that, as far as I've seen. They don't take games for real life anymore than they take action movies for real life. I would rather see some analysis of why she thinks a few tropes are a problem in so wide a market. Some video game designers chose to utilize simple, centuries-old storylines that are still popular.....so the fuck what? Show me that some harm is actually being done, and I might give a fuck. I'm also of the opinion that the wider acceptance of video game culture will lead to market solutions that will be faster and more effective than anything that activist analysis can accomplish.

Anyway, I'll give her future videos in the series an honest shot, but based on past content, I'm not expecting to be impressed.

Personally, I'd like to see more female villains, but unless they are portrayed as fully fleshed-out characters and sensitive, tragic anti-heroes, I doubt many feminists would be thrilled about THAT particular gender parity (although my SO would love it).

Another thing to think about is that yes, this really isn't the most important thing in the world. However, it is worth thinking about, especially for videogame developers looking for new ideas that haven't been developed yet.

Southern wrote:

Percentage wrote:FWIW, I enjoyed Sarkeesian's gamer video. You can't deny that the video game industry is extremely male-dominated, and has been since its inception; I don't see anything wrong with deconstructing that, especially since video games have become more mainstream and thus culturally important in the past decade. I think I can concede all that without joining the batshit brigade. There's a middle ground to be found here.

I'm looking forward to her second video.

Her video is so deep, that an ant could cross it with water on its ankles.

Her video would be OK as an Youtube production - not much different from what the Angry Video Game Nerd or Yatzee do. But she got one hundred and sixty buckaroos to make her shit. And that's the best she can produce? Damn, those wiminz must be a bunch of twats, if the best they can produce about videogames with 160K is a vapid research like that.

Hey, Transformers 2 cost 200 millions bucks.

Steersman wrote:

windy wrote:

Jack wrote: The whole tribalism discussion is a total distractor and a waste of time, the same as the arguments about who is the most moral.

I agree, it's just a smokescreen. The "dialogue" threads always seem to attract those FTB defenders who don't believe in dialogue and insist in repeating that over and over. But the problem with trying to discuss ideas at this point is that the well has been poisoned, filled in and cemented over.

Don’t think I can really agree with that, at least the first part. Seems to me that one of the primary criticisms that “we” have – though it is not the only thing that unites this “tribe” – of FTB and company is they tend to be problematically prone to group-think. And while I think Chas has a bit of bias on the question – I see that you’ve also noticed that he has recently flounced from that discussion on Nugent’s post – I also think he has some justification in suggesting that there is some evidence of that here. For several examples of many, the apparent pile-ons here over Watson’s “Galileogate”, Sally Strange’s supposed authorship of a rape threat against herself, and the accusations floating about recently that Oolon was the source of the Benson photoshop – which I note that only Tina seems to have apologized for.

Where I think Chas goes off the rails is in not being cognizant of some significant differences: group-think as an opinion imposed on slaves versus autonomous individuals thinking and reaching the same conclusion even if that might be based on common premises, particularly if those are open to review rather than being seen as infallible dogma.

But in a larger sense, I think the issue of group-think has a great degree of relevance to society in general, and that there is more than a little justification for using this little “love spat” we’re currently engaged in as an entrée to a greater understanding of the processes involved, their consequences, and their implications. For instance, and briefly (for a change) so as not to belabour the point excessively, I think there are some significant physiological processes that undergird group-think, and that it bears a great degree of resemblance to the swarming of locusts. And to the somewhat apocryphal urban legend that the menstrual cycles of women living in close quarters tend to synchronize. But one of the best and most tangible illustrations of that that I’ve seen was on Jerry Coyne’s site sometime ago of the synchronization of 32 metronomes:

[youtube]JWToUATLGzs[/youtube]

Certainly some benefits in group solidarity of one sort or another, a solidarity that is manifested or enforced by syncronization of type or another. Unfortunately or not, not all groups have the same degree of credibilty or worth.

Sorry to ignore your earlier advice, but I wanted to include that cool video. I feel all smarty now, before I followed the link I assumed it had to do with the platform they were on, as I could see it was moving slightly, which I assumed would eventually affect the metronomes.

But I have to ask.....that one metronome, all the way to the right of the second row from front.....is that you?

EdwardGemmer wrote:

Southern wrote:

Percentage wrote:FWIW, I enjoyed Sarkeesian's gamer video. You can't deny that the video game industry is extremely male-dominated, and has been since its inception; I don't see anything wrong with deconstructing that, especially since video games have become more mainstream and thus culturally important in the past decade. I think I can concede all that without joining the batshit brigade. There's a middle ground to be found here.

I'm looking forward to her second video.

Her video is so deep, that an ant could cross it with water on its ankles.

Her video would be OK as an Youtube production - not much different from what the Angry Video Game Nerd or Yatzee do. But she got one hundred and sixty buckaroos to make her shit. And that's the best she can produce? Damn, those wiminz must be a bunch of twats, if the best they can produce about videogames with 160K is a vapid research like that.

Hey, Transformers 2 cost 200 millions bucks.

And Michael Bay caught a lot of shit for that abomination, didn't he?

Scenario: You offer to do a job for $6000. The internet gives you $160,000.

Do you:

a) Say "thanks very much i'll make a slightly improved version of what I was going to do anyway".
b) Say "this is ridiculous, i'll return your money" and forget the entire thing.
c) Say "oh well, now I have money i'll just do something completely different".

If you didn't choose a) you are mental.

Southern wrote:

EdwardGemmer wrote:

Southern wrote:

Percentage wrote:FWIW, I enjoyed Sarkeesian's gamer video. You can't deny that the video game industry is extremely male-dominated, and has been since its inception; I don't see anything wrong with deconstructing that, especially since video games have become more mainstream and thus culturally important in the past decade. I think I can concede all that without joining the batshit brigade. There's a middle ground to be found here.

I'm looking forward to her second video.

Her video is so deep, that an ant could cross it with water on its ankles.

Her video would be OK as an Youtube production - not much different from what the Angry Video Game Nerd or Yatzee do. But she got one hundred and sixty buckaroos to make her shit. And that's the best she can produce? Damn, those wiminz must be a bunch of twats, if the best they can produce about videogames with 160K is a vapid research like that.

Hey, Transformers 2 cost 200 millions bucks.

And Michael Bay caught a lot of shit for that abomination, didn't he?

I don't think he really minded all the shit when his paycheck cleared the bank.

I guess if feeding the trolls is the route you want to take, then you might as well go the whole hog:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ma ... tter-troll

When Curtis Woodhouse lost his English light-welterweight title on points to Shane Singleton on Friday night , he was branded a "disgrace" on the social networking site by 'Jimmyob88'‏, who has reportedly been abusing Woodhouse on Twitter for months.

The boxer was so enraged with the tweets that he offered his followers a £1,000 reward if they could help him locate the culprit. Woodhouse's growing number of Twitter followers chipped in and managed to track down his troll.

Woodhouse set off to find his troll, tweeting a photograph of the street on which Jimmyob88 lived. "Right Jimbob, I'm here," he wrote, adding: "Someone tell me what number he lives at or do I have to knock on every door #itsshowtime."

Realising the error of his ways, Jimmyob88 replied: "I am sorry it's getting a bit out of hand. I am in the wrong. I accept that." A triumphant Woodhouse went home, joking that he could have saved himself some petrol money by blocking his cowardly abuser.

(The link has a Storify which is quite funny.)

Southern wrote:

Apples wrote:

Elyse wrote:I want to talk to you about how you talk to me about how I talk about my body, and how I talk about how I feel about my body, and what’s wrong with everything you have to say about what I have to say.

In short, fuck you.

I don’t love my body. My body is awful. I will never love my body. I never have. And I’m 35 and maybe you think that’s too old to have real hang ups about my body. But I do. And I always will. And maybe you think that because I’ve lost a bunch of weight I should feel great about my body. But I don’t. And I won’t.

Dear Elyse, I don't know why you want to talk to me about this, but I can assure you I have never talked to you about how you talk about your body, and I never even gave your body a single thought until you wrote this rant and posted all those awful pictures of your awful body. In short, fuck you, too.

http://skepchick.org/2013/03/dont-tell- ... e-my-body/
http://www.freezepage.com/1363111576IGFKWRYYLD

Dear Elyse, Dr. Cox may have one thing to teach you about hating your body:

o_HAXan1wSQ

She is 35 and her body shows every sign of being seriously abused. Including a tattoo known as a "tramp stamp". Only 35 and this is what she has done to herself!

Then to top it off she self describes as:

Elyse MoFo Anders is the bad ass behind the Women Thinking, inc and the superhero in charge of the Hug Me! I'm Vaccinated campaign as well as a podcaster, writer, and slacktivist extraordinaire. You probably think she's awesome so you follow her on twitter.

Quite apart from being a legend in her own mind, I would say she is bad news for everyone around her, starting with herself.

nippletwister wrote:

Steersman wrote:
<snip>
Certainly some benefits in group solidarity of one sort or another, a solidarity that is manifested or enforced by syncronization of type or another. Unfortunately or not, not all groups have the same degree of credibilty or worth.

Sorry to ignore your earlier advice, but I wanted to include that cool video. I feel all smarty now, before I followed the link I assumed it had to do with the platform they were on, as I could see it was moving slightly, which I assumed would eventually affect the metronomes.

But I have to ask.....that one metronome, all the way to the right of the second row from front.....is that you?

No problemo, but, yea, that’s me – different drummer, and all that …. :-)

But it seems that the platform they’re on is in fact the mechanism by which they are coupled and which causes the eventual synchronization. Here’s a rather good illustration of that, along with a detailed description of the “Synchronization of Metronomes” (I think as I haven’t read all of the article yet):

[youtube]Aaxw4zbULMs[/youtube]

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:Is P'shopping your job, Jan Steen? Or just a hobby?

I've often used Photoshop to improve the quality of the images in my scientific publications*. This helped me get the software in my fingers, so that I can now do most of these 'shops without spending an inordinate amount of time on them. Just long enough not to spoil the fun. I wouldn't even call it a hobby.

* Without falsifying data, of course :)

EdwardGemmer wrote:

cunt wrote:Luigi was held captive by the elite republican guard for 3 months. When they fled the city he used a shattered piece of glass to remove his hands and escape. He was eventually gunned down by american forces.

Hmmmm...

http://superhappycashcow.com/pic/Selene ... /luigi.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/-aBz01_M6l1U/UHVM6 ... imgmax=800

Obviously Nintendo is sexist.

Yeah, original artwork was held back out of marketing and image concerns.

http://i.imgur.com/A053o5U.jpg?3

AndrewV69 wrote:

Southern wrote:

Apples wrote:

Elyse wrote:I want to talk to you about how you talk to me about how I talk about my body, and how I talk about how I feel about my body, and what’s wrong with everything you have to say about what I have to say.

In short, fuck you.

I don’t love my body. My body is awful. I will never love my body. I never have. And I’m 35 and maybe you think that’s too old to have real hang ups about my body. But I do. And I always will. And maybe you think that because I’ve lost a bunch of weight I should feel great about my body. But I don’t. And I won’t.

Dear Elyse, I don't know why you want to talk to me about this, but I can assure you I have never talked to you about how you talk about your body, and I never even gave your body a single thought until you wrote this rant and posted all those awful pictures of your awful body. In short, fuck you, too.

http://skepchick.org/2013/03/dont-tell- ... e-my-body/
http://www.freezepage.com/1363111576IGFKWRYYLD

Dear Elyse, Dr. Cox may have one thing to teach you about hating your body:

o_HAXan1wSQ

She is 35 and her body shows every sign of being seriously abused. Including a tattoo known as a "tramp stamp". Only 35 and this is what she has done to herself!

Then to top it off she self describes as:

Elyse MoFo Anders is the bad ass behind the Women Thinking, inc and the superhero in charge of the Hug Me! I'm Vaccinated campaign as well as a podcaster, writer, and slacktivist extraordinaire. You probably think she's awesome so you follow her on twitter.

Quite apart from being a legend in her own mind, I would say she is bad news for everyone around her, starting with herself.

You know I liked her article okay. Our attractiveness and perception of attractiveness is just huge to how we view ourselves people. It's for good reason, too, since attractiveness is an important part of evolution. So our feelings and thoughts towards this stuff is important for us to consider.

Steersman wrote:

nippletwister wrote:

Steersman wrote:
<snip>
Certainly some benefits in group solidarity of one sort or another, a solidarity that is manifested or enforced by syncronization of type or another. Unfortunately or not, not all groups have the same degree of credibilty or worth.

Sorry to ignore your earlier advice, but I wanted to include that cool video. I feel all smarty now, before I followed the link I assumed it had to do with the platform they were on, as I could see it was moving slightly, which I assumed would eventually affect the metronomes.

But I have to ask.....that one metronome, all the way to the right of the second row from front.....is that you?

No problemo, but, yea, that’s me – different drummer, and all that …. :-)

But it seems that the platform they’re on is in fact the mechanism by which they are coupled and which causes the eventual synchronization. Here’s a rather good illustration of that, along with a detailed description of the “Synchronization of Metronomes” (I think as I haven’t read all of the article yet):

Nice video. For me the coolest thing was not the emergence of a resonant frequency. In the first video a lone metronome managed to keep a 180 degree inverted rhythm to the rest of the group, actually gaining its power by bouncing off the momentum of the entire group. That is, until its rhythm was slightly disrupted, then it had the shit pounded out of it until it was forced into sync.

More poetic minds than me may wish to translate that into some relevant analogies.

Southern wrote:Damn, those wiminz must be a bunch of twats, if the best they can produce about videogames with 160K is a vapid research like that.

Dude - The producer is a guy, and I doubt he's the only one involved in the production. Those involved in these videos may all be vapid twats, but they're not all women.

Games now is it? Yes...

I noticed myself that white gets to move first in Chess, perhaps someone should link that to a piece on game rules as subliminal inculcation of white supremacy along with Cludeo which of course has Dr Black murdered by a gang of power elite phallocrats. Playing cards are the worst, a quarter of them use the racially offensive description of "spades".

I think I get it now. Essentially what you do is find some part of society and examine it until you can find something in that which can be used as further evidence that culture is biased against [add your own grievance]. It doesn't really matter that is makes no real sense, there is an audience for it. The mechanics of it seem to be exactly the same as every other conspiracy theory and post-modern meta-fictional narrative. Start with a theory or plot and weave a tapestry of "facts" in with the conjecture to make it sound plausible.

A lot of this seems to be akin to the antagonists of Borges' "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius". It makes sense, if some can have The Bible and others "Atlas Shrugged", some might have "Das Kapital" or "Principia Discordia" or "Nineteen Eighty-Four" as their blueprint to Utopia, it would seem obvious post-modernists would be inspired by a text that mocks their intellectual hubris whilst being oblivious to that meaning.

windy wrote:

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Weird tweet I jost got, as well as other Pitters, linking to a petition to keep Eucliwood banned:



Petition here:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/keep ... anned-lwp/

Da fuck?!?

You read right, it's an expat from Atheism+, and it was not a former Atheist + when it joined the pit, nor was it when it was banned, but things have gone downhill fast. It was banned from the main forums but not a hidden forum connected to it. The woman that suggested Euwoo for the place has terrible taste in associates.

(re. bolded part): could even the atheism+ mods be that clueless??

Sounds like part of the same setup to me...

Petition actually sounds like woowoo herse'f.

AndrewV69 wrote:She is 35 and her body shows every sign of being seriously abused. Including a tattoo known as a "tramp stamp". Only 35 and this is what she has done to herself!

She had a few kids and lost a ton of weight. As for the tramp stamp, is this remarkable to you? She'll never be a swimsuit model, but I guess I'm not seeing "serious abuse" or an extremely unusual body type for her demographic.

Richard Dworkins wrote:Games now is it? Yes...

I noticed myself that white gets to move first in Chess, perhaps someone should link that to a piece on game rules as subliminal inculcation of white supremacy along with Cludeo which of course has Dr Black murdered by a gang of power elite phallocrats. Playing cards are the worst, a quarter of them use the racially offensive description of "spades".

I think I get it now. Essentially what you do is find some part of society and examine it until you can find something in that which can be used as further evidence that culture is biased against [add your own grievance]. It doesn't really matter that is makes no real sense, there is an audience for it. The mechanics of it seem to be exactly the same as every other conspiracy theory and post-modern meta-fictional narrative. Start with a theory or plot and weave a tapestry of "facts" in with the conjecture to make it sound plausible.

A lot of this seems to be akin to the antagonists of Borges' "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius". It makes sense, if some can have The Bible and others "Atlas Shrugged", some might have "Das Kapital" or "Principia Discordia" or "Nineteen Eighty-Four" as their blueprint to Utopia, it would seem obvious post-modernists would be inspired by a text that mocks their intellectual hubris whilst being oblivious to that meaning.

I definitely remember an article once about UNO, where the implications were that it was racist or something or other. I just can't remember the name of the article or where I saw it.

Apples wrote:

AndrewV69 wrote:She is 35 and her body shows every sign of being seriously abused. Including a tattoo known as a "tramp stamp". Only 35 and this is what she has done to herself!

She had a few kids and lost a ton of weight. As for the tramp stamp, is this remarkable to you? She'll never be a swimsuit model, but I guess I'm not seeing "serious abuse" or an extremely unusual body type for her demographic.

Yeh, no one 'does it to themselves' unless they are on heavy drug use or something. As to he self imagine its a shame but if talking about it helps then good. I'm no looker but I overcome it by ignoring it and pretending to myself I'm the best thing since sliced bread. We all have ways of coping. It's easy for me as I'm generally confident, for others it will be tough.

Steersman wrote:

windy wrote:

Jack wrote: The whole tribalism discussion is a total distractor and a waste of time, the same as the arguments about who is the most moral.

I agree, it's just a smokescreen. The "dialogue" threads always seem to attract those FTB defenders who don't believe in dialogue and insist in repeating that over and over. But the problem with trying to discuss ideas at this point is that the well has been poisoned, filled in and cemented over.

Don’t think I can really agree with that, at least the first part. Seems to me that one of the primary criticisms that “we” have – though it is not the only thing that unites this “tribe” – of FTB and company is they tend to be problematically prone to group-think. And while I think Chas has a bit of bias on the question – I see that you’ve also noticed that he has recently flounced from that discussion on Nugent’s post – I also think he has some justification in suggesting that there is some evidence of that here.

I already addressed this over there- it's not that tribalism doesn't exist, it's that accusing others of tribalism is a non-starter (especially if one is a participant in the argument at the same time).

Steersman wrote:Where I think Chas goes off the rails is in not being cognizant of some significant differences: group-think as an opinion imposed on slaves versus autonomous individuals thinking and reaching the same conclusion even if that might be based on common premises, particularly if those are open to review rather than being seen as infallible dogma.

But nearly everyone would say that the other side is engaging in groupthink and that they themselves are the individual thinkers. Better to focus on more specific complaints, IMO.

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:

Jan Steen wrote:http://i.imgur.com/gaYAYWD.jpg

Love it!

Methinks you are somewhat making fun of Steers knack for using language as a mesmeric tool as per "The Art of Longwinded Rhetoric for Dummies by Leo Tolstoy. Mayhaps he is familiar with the opus; alas I reckon a bibliophile such as he would also mention the passing of someone with an ethnopathically long name, of consumption, forsooth he hath at least learnt the power of the comma!

windy wrote:

Steersman wrote:

windy wrote:

Jack wrote: The whole tribalism discussion is a total distractor and a waste of time, the same as the arguments about who is the most moral.

I agree, it's just a smokescreen. The "dialogue" threads always seem to attract those FTB defenders who don't believe in dialogue and insist in repeating that over and over. But the problem with trying to discuss ideas at this point is that the well has been poisoned, filled in and cemented over.

Don’t think I can really agree with that, at least the first part. Seems to me that one of the primary criticisms that “we” have – though it is not the only thing that unites this “tribe” – of FTB and company is they tend to be problematically prone to group-think. And while I think Chas has a bit of bias on the question – I see that you’ve also noticed that he has recently flounced from that discussion on Nugent’s post – I also think he has some justification in suggesting that there is some evidence of that here.

I already addressed this over there- it's not that tribalism doesn't exist, it's that accusing others of tribalism is a non-starter (especially if one is a participant in the argument at the same time).

Steersman wrote:Where I think Chas goes off the rails is in not being cognizant of some significant differences: group-think as an opinion imposed on slaves versus autonomous individuals thinking and reaching the same conclusion even if that might be based on common premises, particularly if those are open to review rather than being seen as infallible dogma.

But nearly everyone would say that the other side is engaging in groupthink and that they themselves are the individual thinkers. Better to focus on more specific complaints, IMO.

Exactly my point. Their tribalism features had been brought up many times anyway.

The conversations seemed to veer off and get bogged down. So Oolon got his jollies (I never read him and would never respond, he's there for the lols) and Eu does a wonderful job of drawing attention to herself. We did great but every time we screwed them down they wiggled away.

DownThunder wrote:

Steersman wrote:

nippletwister wrote:

Steersman wrote:
<snip>
Certainly some benefits in group solidarity of one sort or another, a solidarity that is manifested or enforced by syncronization of type or another. Unfortunately or not, not all groups have the same degree of credibilty or worth.

Sorry to ignore your earlier advice, but I wanted to include that cool video. I feel all smarty now, before I followed the link I assumed it had to do with the platform they were on, as I could see it was moving slightly, which I assumed would eventually affect the metronomes.

But I have to ask.....that one metronome, all the way to the right of the second row from front.....is that you?

No problemo, but, yea, that’s me – different drummer, and all that …. :-)

But it seems that the platform they’re on is in fact the mechanism by which they are coupled and which causes the eventual synchronization. Here’s a rather good illustration of that, along with a detailed description of the “Synchronization of Metronomes” (I think as I haven’t read all of the article yet):

Nice video. For me the coolest thing was not the emergence of a resonant frequency.

Yes, an interesting phenomenon - emergence. Speaking of which [ :-) ], you might be interested in, if you haven’t already seen it, the series on the topic by Massimo Pigliucci.

In the first video a lone metronome managed to keep a 180 degree inverted rhythm to the rest of the group, actually gaining its power by bouncing off the momentum of the entire group. That is, until its rhythm was slightly disrupted, then it had the shit pounded out of it until it was forced into sync.

More poetic minds than me may wish to translate that into some relevant analogies.

Hadn’t noticed the one 180 degrees out of phase which is certainly interesting in itself - the group can be rather savage in enforcing compliance with its dogma: "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." But nothing wrong with using analogies, at least that I can see – sort of my intent, actually …. :-)

So I hear Ahmadinejad has been leading a campaign of sexual harassment against women at conferences hugged a woman.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... ics-dismay

Apparently he's in a bit of trouble. Actually quite a lot, considering we are talking about a hug.

But if there's one thing our SJW friends have taught us, it's that hugs are serious business.

DownThunder wrote:So I hear Ahmadinejad has been leading a campaign of sexual harassment against women at conferences hugged a woman.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/201 ... ics-dismay

Apparently he's in a bit of trouble. Actually quite a lot, considering we are talking about a hug.

But if there's one thing our SJW friends have taught us, it's that hugs are serious business.

I think he is due to stand down soon, I suspect it's a bit of power positioning for a new leader.

Apples wrote:

AndrewV69 wrote:She is 35 and her body shows every sign of being seriously abused. Including a tattoo known as a "tramp stamp". Only 35 and this is what she has done to herself!

She had a few kids and lost a ton of weight. As for the tramp stamp, is this remarkable to you? She'll never be a swimsuit model, but I guess I'm not seeing "serious abuse" or an extremely unusual body type for her demographic.

I don't see the serious abuse either.
Isn't she recovering from cancer treatment? She looks awesome for a cancer patient. Sure, she doesn't look like a youngster, but she does look her age.

Apples wrote:

Southern wrote:Damn, those wiminz must be a bunch of twats, if the best they can produce about videogames with 160K is a vapid research like that.

Dude - The producer is a guy, and I doubt he's the only one involved in the production. Those involved in these videos may all be vapid twats, but they're not all women.

I know. I really hoped that the irony was visible...