Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Gumby]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 2b6d31.jpg

[Gumby]

Hello Pitters! I'm back from a week of studio work in a small village up north (pop. 80) without phone or internet. I'm going to catch up, if I can (still at page 422). Or maybe I can have a résumé?

Errrr.....Cunt and Rystefn had a big argument about whether Rys could hammer a piece of Lego into solid oak using a seashell. It was decided to postpone the argument until a suitably piece of weathered oak could be found for Rys to test his claim.

Wait a minute, I thought the argument was about if the ejaculate pressure in Rystefn's cock was sufficient to insert bolts into the tip and rivet steel plating?

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/sNMyD8n.jpg

[zenbabe]

Scissoring Lsuoma!

I'm tempted to set maximum quote nesting back down to three, or even two. What do people think?

Jesus H Tap-dancing Particular Christ on a Crutch, there are some annoying cunts on this planet (me included)...

Lsuomononnna, is there any way you can include a clickie link to the original post within the quoted post, and then set your limit to two or three nestings? That way people could click that embedded link and find the quoted post in its virginal and pristine state, as well as any other parasitic posts surrounding it. It would eliminate the need people might feel in providing full context, since those interested could click their way to the glories of Full Knowledge. Might also encourage people to snip away at the quoted post to be more specific to whatever's prompted a reply.

It would also be a blessed relief to anyone trying to find where a conversation started if they've been MIA for a while or are newly minted, or I suppose, are Oolonhehehe-esque.

Websleuths is a BBC board like the 'pit and has the feature so I'm assuming you can do it.

[zenbabe]

Jan you rock so hard I can hardly bear it

[zenbabe]

Also Gumby with the lols :D

[debaser71]

Sort of interesting blog post on Feminist Critics

http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/201 ... actic-noh/

regarding Lindsay.

[another lurker]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 2b6d31.jpg

I could only watch a few seconds of that video before being so creeped out I had to close the window.

[another lurker]

Someone posted about Penny Arcade earlier on. More fallout because of SJW sensitivities:
http://kotaku.com/indie-developer-pulls ... -532336421

Free publicity for the developers of the game. No one knew about their shit game before, now everyone is going to be talking about it, at least in SJW circles.

[Gumby]

I could only watch a few seconds of that video before being so creeped out I had to close the window.

You mean the video window, or your bedroom window?

[TedDahlberg]

Someone posted about Penny Arcade earlier on. More fallout because of SJW sensitivities:
http://kotaku.com/indie-developer-pulls ... -532336421

Free publicity for the developers of the game. No one knew about their shit game before, now everyone is going to be talking about it, at least in SJW circles.

Talking, but not buying :whistle:

[Aneris]

Scissoring Lsuoma!

I'm tempted to set maximum quote nesting back down to three, or even two. What do people think?

Jesus H Tap-dancing Particular Christ on a Crutch, there are some annoying cunts on this planet (me included)...

Lsuomononnna, is there any way you can include a clickie link to the original post within the quoted post, and then set your limit to two or three nestings? That way people could click that embedded link and find the quoted post in its virginal and pristine state, as well as any other parasitic posts surrounding it. It would eliminate the need people might feel in providing full context, since those interested could click their way to the glories of Full Knowledge. Might also encourage people to snip away at the quoted post to be more specific to whatever's prompted a reply.

It would also be a blessed relief to anyone trying to find where a conversation started if they've been MIA for a while or are newly minted, or I suppose, are Oolonhehehe-esque.

Websleuths is a BBC board like the 'pit and has the feature so I'm assuming you can do it.

Good idea. And how about making nested quotes collapsed (like spoilers, except the outermost), so you can read them, but they don't waste so much screenspace. And can we see numerical how may people have ignored us, would be interesting to know (without seeing the names). Or can you post a highscore? :)

[Scented Nectar]

Argh, I'm 8 pages behind and it's getting worse. I'm just going to start over from here. Sorry if I've missed anything that was meant for me to read.

[Jan Steen]

Jan you rock so hard I can hardly bear it

Resistance is futile.

[zenbabe]

Jan you rock so hard I can hardly bear it

Resistance is futile.

Succumbed and did my part to spread your Borgish Good News to the Twitterverse

[Metalogic42]

Hello Pitters! I'm back from a week of studio work in a small village up north (pop. 80) without phone or internet. I'm going to catch up, if I can (still at page 422). Or maybe I can have a résumé?

Wow, 30ish pages behind? I'm so sorry. : P Here's a few things you missed:

Ellenbeth Wachs was on CGIPC, and was really great. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/chill_girl ... d-her-gods

David Silverman was on Brave Hero radio, and drank the FTB Kool-Aid. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bravehero/ ... -silverman

Ron Lindsay gave a not-pology, and of course it wasn't enough. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/e ... lk_at_wis2

FTB is taking its ball and going home. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... nt-page-1/

And I have a blog. http://skepticismfirst.wordpress.com/



I'm probably missing a lot.

[Tony Parsehole]

Argh, I'm 8 pages behind and it's getting worse. I'm just going to start over from here. Sorry if I've missed anything that was meant for me to read.

Nah, don't think so. This image basically sums it up:
http://emotibot.net/pix/797.jpg

[Jan Steen]

Jan you rock so hard I can hardly bear it

Resistance is futile.

Succumbed and did my part to spread your Borgish Good News to the Twitterverse

Good, good.

/cackling laughter

[Gumby]

Hello Pitters! I'm back from a week of studio work in a small village up north (pop. 80) without phone or internet. I'm going to catch up, if I can (still at page 422). Or maybe I can have a résumé?

Wow, 30ish pages behind? I'm so sorry. : P Here's a few things you missed:

Ellenbeth Wachs was on CGIPC, and was really great. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/chill_girl ... d-her-gods

David Silverman was on Brave Hero radio, and drank the FTB Kool-Aid. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bravehero/ ... -silverman

Ron Lindsay gave a not-pology, and of course it wasn't enough. http://www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/e ... lk_at_wis2

FTB is taking its ball and going home. http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... nt-page-1/

And I have a blog. http://skepticismfirst.wordpress.com/



I'm probably missing a lot.

Don't forget Part II of the cunt/Rystefn kerfluffle.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 55733f.png

[TheMudbrooker]

Argh, I'm 8 pages behind and it's getting worse. I'm just going to start over from here. Sorry if I've missed anything that was meant for me to read.

Don't sweat it, six and a half pages was three or four people endlessly posting the same shit about child support and reproductive rights and about one page was cunt and rys reviving the drive a nail with a screwdriver argument.

[Walter Ego]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 2b6d31.jpg

That made me smile. Thanks.

[debaser71]

thanks for the links....just tossing out here...why are so many of these SWJ types the followers, not the leaders, are newcomers to the atheist movement (so called). EBW, for example, only got on board in 2008. Many can go back further than me but I started being 'active" in my atheism in 1990 as a freshman in college. That these people can claim to BE the atheist movement (and I'm not talking about EBW anymore) is really fucking insulting. Ok, carry on.

[Tony Parsehole]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 2b6d31.jpg

That made me smile. Thanks.

Don't ever change the viewing angle of your videos.
Own it!

[Karmakin]

Someone posted about Penny Arcade earlier on. More fallout because of SJW sensitivities:
http://kotaku.com/indie-developer-pulls ... -532336421

Free publicity for the developers of the game. No one knew about their shit game before, now everyone is going to be talking about it, at least in SJW circles.

Talking, but not buying :whistle:

To be fair, the game was shown off during Sony's E3 conference, so it's of some regard.

Although to be honest, that people are still bringing up the Dickwolves thing really pisses me off, as that's a really good example of how fucking stupid SJW's can be. It. Actually. Was. An. Anti. Rape. Joke. That was the punchline. That rape is the worst thing ever and that theme park MMO players are "conditioned" in-game to ignore such travesties once the initial quest is done.

That these people couldn't understand it, either means that they're stupid or their scheming. Some are in camp A some are in camp B, but at the end of the day it means that these people are basically useless in terms of fixing the problems they want to fix.

[another lurker]

To be fair, the game was shown off during Sony's E3 conference, so it's of some regard.

Although to be honest, that people are still bringing up the Dickwolves thing really pisses me off, as that's a really good example of how fucking stupid SJW's can be. It. Actually. Was. An. Anti. Rape. Joke. That was the punchline. That rape is the worst thing ever and that theme park MMO players are "conditioned" in-game to ignore such travesties once the initial quest is done.

That these people couldn't understand it, either means that they're stupid or their scheming. Some are in camp A some are in camp B, but at the end of the day it means that these people are basically useless in terms of fixing the problems they want to fix.

I still don't entirely understand how Penny Arcade is a supposed 'bastion of misogyny' because, generally speaking, their cartoons (I will admit, the only thing I ever really look at) portray the men as semi-retarded dweebs, and the women as competent, intelligent people.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

<snip>
Likewise with your general charge of hypocrisy: do you have examples of him calling some women bitches or sluts after that promulgation? If not then I think you’re seriously barking up the wrong tree. Not to mention showing some bias and prejudice of your own. ....

Consider the case where Myers creates a law that people can't park in the field anymore because only an evil bastard would ever park in the field and anyone doing so is devoid of humanity and must be shunned. This is what people have been pointing out to you in various ways and you have yet to even acknowledge that. I'm really beginning to wonder what your game is because it seems unlikely that you've failed to grasp this.

How is that different in essence from a simple law making it illegal to park in that field? All of that “evil bastard … devoid of humanity [who] must be shunned” is only emotional window dressing. Like the difference between jailing pedophiles and lynching them.

The same sort of difference, I might add, between, on the one hand, “slut” as a promiscuous woman, one “indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners” and, on the other, “an immoral woman”. One is a denotation, a simple description of the primary and defining attribute, while the other is a connotation, a set of relevant moral precepts and values.

You might want to try focusing on the structure of the argument rather than on those window dressings. This article on analogies, notably this section, might clarify somewhat.

You are intelligent enough to discern the argument stripped of the window dressing. It really doesn't matter if the pedophiles are being jailed or lynched if the person prosecuting used to be a kiddy fiddler and now pretends he's always been a committed social worker. The charge of hypocrisy is still valid. The essence of the hypocrisy charge is not that Myers used to be a misogynist, although I wouldn't discount that, it's that he does not apply the same harsh judgement to his past self that he applies to others now. Your parking analogy fails in application to Myers in that parking in the field was not a crime before the law was passed. Myers argument about words is that they are, and presumably were when he used them, always bad.

[Jan Steen]

FTB to CFI: “We are cutting all our ties with you. You’re despicable. We’re leaving.” (Slams door.)

FTB: (Muffled shouting from outside.) “We have left now. Did you hear us slamming the door?”

CFI : "Okay."

FTB: “We’re gone.”

CFI: “Yup.”

FTB: “We’re going to boycott you. And all our friends will too.”

CFI: “Sorry if we hurt your precious feelings.”

FTB: (Comes hurrying back in.) “Apologies accepted. Will you organise WiS3, please? Pretty please?”

CFI: “But you were boycotting us?”

FTB: (Nervous laughter.) “Oh that. No, we’ve always been at war with Oceania.”

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... -are-hard/

[Dick Strawkins]

<snip>
Likewise with your general charge of hypocrisy: do you have examples of him calling some women bitches or sluts after that promulgation? If not then I think you’re seriously barking up the wrong tree. Not to mention showing some bias and prejudice of your own. ....

Consider the case where Myers creates a law that people can't park in the field anymore because only an evil bastard would ever park in the field and anyone doing so is devoid of humanity and must be shunned. This is what people have been pointing out to you in various ways and you have yet to even acknowledge that. I'm really beginning to wonder what your game is because it seems unlikely that you've failed to grasp this.

How is that different in essence from a simple law making it illegal to park in that field? All of that “evil bastard … devoid of humanity [who] must be shunned” is only emotional window dressing. Like the difference between jailing pedophiles and lynching them.

The same sort of difference, I might add, between, on the one hand, “slut” as a promiscuous woman, one “indiscriminate in the choice of sexual partners” and, on the other, “an immoral woman”. One is a denotation, a simple description of the primary and defining attribute, while the other is a connotation, a set of relevant moral precepts and values.

You might want to try focusing on the structure of the argument rather than on those window dressings. This article on analogies, notably this section, might clarify somewhat.[/quote]

You are intelligent enough to discern the argument stripped of the window dressing. It really doesn't matter if the pedophiles are being jailed or lynched if the person prosecuting used to be a kiddy fiddler and now pretends he's always been a committed social worker. The charge of hypocrisy is still valid. The essence of the hypocrisy charge is not that Myers used to be a misogynist, although I wouldn't discount that, it's that he does not apply the same harsh judgement to his past self that he applies to others now. Your parking analogy fails in application to Myers in that parking in the field was not a crime before the law was passed. Myers argument about words is that they are, and presumably were when he used them, always bad.[/quote]

I think that steersman's argument is that the words in question were not always bad. He points to PZ's 'New Rules' post of August 6th (I think) last year, as the instant in which the words 'bitch' and 'slut' suddenly became sexist.

[Karmakin]

To be fair, the game was shown off during Sony's E3 conference, so it's of some regard.

Although to be honest, that people are still bringing up the Dickwolves thing really pisses me off, as that's a really good example of how fucking stupid SJW's can be. It. Actually. Was. An. Anti. Rape. Joke. That was the punchline. That rape is the worst thing ever and that theme park MMO players are "conditioned" in-game to ignore such travesties once the initial quest is done.

That these people couldn't understand it, either means that they're stupid or their scheming. Some are in camp A some are in camp B, but at the end of the day it means that these people are basically useless in terms of fixing the problems they want to fix.

I still don't entirely understand how Penny Arcade is a supposed 'bastion of misogyny' because, generally speaking, their cartoons (I will admit, the only thing I ever really look at) portray the men as semi-retarded dweebs, and the women as competent, intelligent people.

PA is a threat to them IMO because it's a big force in organizing what is a more heavy male community in a positive fashion in a way that's entirely out of their control/ideology.

IMO the big change in terms of popular online feminism is the concept of "toxic male culture"....the widespread embracing of this idea is what has resulted in a lot of the radicalization that you've seen over the last few years. PA represents by and large a counter-argument to that notion, and that's why they need to be destroyed, in some people's eyes.

[another lurker]

PA is a threat to them IMO because it's a big force in organizing what is a more heavy male community in a positive fashion in a way that's entirely out of their control/ideology.

IMO the big change in terms of popular online feminism is the concept of "toxic male culture"....the widespread embracing of this idea is what has resulted in a lot of the radicalization that you've seen over the last few years. PA represents by and large a counter-argument to that notion, and that's why they need to be destroyed, in some people's eyes.

Bolded mine. Even if one is on their side, you're not really on their side if you are out of their control/ideology:P

[Whig]

Hello Pitters! I'm back from a week of studio work in a small village up north (pop. 80) without phone or internet. I'm going to catch up, if I can (still at page 422). Or maybe I can have a résumé?

Here's a decent rundown.

[acathode]

FTB to CFI: “We are cutting all our ties with you. You’re despicable. We’re leaving.” (Slams door.)

FTB: (Muffled shouting from outside.) “We have left now. Did you hear us slamming the door?”

CFI : "Okay."

FTB: “We’re gone.”

CFI: “Yup.”

FTB: “We’re going to boycott you. And all our friends will too.”

CFI: “Sorry if we hurt your precious feelings.”

FTB: (Comes hurrying back in.) “Apologies accepted. Will you organise WiS3, please? Pretty please?”

CFI: “But you were boycotting us?”

FTB: (Nervous laughter.) “Oh that. No, we’ve always been at war with Oceania.”

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... -are-hard/

Honestly though, if Lindsay have any sort of brains, he knew when he published his apology that it was vague enough to allow the FTBers to twist it into a victory which they could accept without losing face, and that by publishing it, he was efficiently placing the ball entirely in the FTBers hands, giving them a chance to not burn the last plank of the bridge between FTB and CFI. They could of course also have gone their usual temper-tantrum ways and completely dismissed his apology, not the least due to the pretty obvious fact that Lindsay actually doesn't apologize for the content of his speech, but merely for the fact that some people got upset.

I actually expected them to do the later, as they usually doesn't seem able to think tactically and instead just want to see the world bridges burn. Seems as if though, they for once realized that they're much better off being friends with CFI than the alternative. I guess comments like the tweets from Russel Blackford help them a bit though, the angrier they see "the other side" being over Lindsay's apology, the better they'll feel about accepting it.

In any case, it's funny seeing the FTBers twist, retcon and paralel-logic their way into "victory", but ultimately, that's what Lindsay invited and welcomed with open arms the moment he hit that "submit" button, and he has to have known that. I'd be quite interested what's going to happen now though, will it be business as usual with CFI keeping the wining and dining (and flying) of the baboons going? Or will relations be considerably more chilly?

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

I think that steersman's argument is that the words in question were not always bad. He points to PZ's 'New Rules' post of August 6th (I think) last year, as the instant in which the words 'bitch' and 'slut' suddenly became sexist.

M'kay. Not entirely unlikely that I could have failed to comb the argument from the thicket. Still leaves the hypocrisy charge intact. Pissy owes others the recognition that they are no different than he used to be if they don't obey his rules, unless of course he was appointed supreme arbiter of absolute morality and werdz 'n shit on the sly.

[Jan Steen]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... -are-hard/

Honestly though, if Lindsay have any sort of brains, he knew when he published his apology that it was vague enough to allow the FTBers to twist it into a victory which they could accept without losing face, and that by publishing it, he was efficiently placing the ball entirely in the FTBers hands, giving them a chance to not burn the last plank of the bridge between FTB and CFI. They could of course also have gone their usual temper-tantrum ways and completely dismissed his apology, not the least due to the pretty obvious fact that Lindsay actually doesn't apologize for the content of his speech, but merely for the fact that some people got upset.

I actually expected them to do the later, as they usually doesn't seem able to think tactically and instead just want to see the world bridges burn. Seems as if though, they for once realized that they're much better off being friends with CFI than the alternative. I guess comments like the tweets from Russel Blackford help them a bit though, the angrier they see "the other side" being over Lindsay's apology, the better they'll feel about accepting it.

In any case, it's funny seeing the FTBers twist, retcon and paralel-logic their way into "victory", but ultimately, that's what Lindsay invited and welcomed with open arms the moment he hit that "submit" button, and he has to have known that. I'd be quite interested what's going to happen now though, will it be business as usual with CFI keeping the wining and dining (and flying) of the baboons going? Or will relations be considerably more chilly?

It's interesting to observe that the commentariat at Ophie's tended to consider Linday's words a not-pology, which also seemed to be Peezus' opinion there. But Zvan and Ophie are wholeheartedly accepting the apology as if it were a noble sacrifice. Their sycophants are expected to behave like weathervanes. Let's see if they will. My guess is they will.

[justinvacula]

New from Stephanie Zvan:

Melody’s reception speech from Women in Secularism 2 posted at the CFI blog. It is still painful that the coverage of this excellent conference has been dominated by this issue, particularly in CFI communications. It would be good to see something positive, and Melody’s speech was that.

There it is again, the trope that Lindsay "hijacked" the conference and the conversation. Bullshit. FTB and company, complaining about Ron, chose to have Ron's talk and the following controversy dominate the conversation. Hell, people likely heard more about the conference from Brave Hero Radio than they did from the rageeeeeeeeeeeee bloggers and social justice warriors. Why doesn't Melody upload her remarks on her tumblr page or elsewhere...or Melody can post her remarks on CFI blog?

[Ape+lust]

FTB to CFI: “We are cutting all our ties with you. You’re despicable. We’re leaving.” (Slams door.)

FTB: (Muffled shouting from outside.) “We have left now. Did you hear us slamming the door?”

CFI : "Okay."

FTB: “We’re gone.”

CFI: “Yup.”

FTB: “We’re going to boycott you. And all our friends will too.”

CFI: “Sorry if we hurt your precious feelings.”

FTB: (Comes hurrying back in.) “Apologies accepted. Will you organise WiS3, please? Pretty please?”

CFI: “But you were boycotting us?”

FTB: (Nervous laughter.) “Oh that. No, we’ve always been at war with Oceania.”

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... -are-hard/

Bang. Ex-act-lee, Jan.

And what the hell does Miz "ambiguous colloquialism / calculated informal salutation" know about apologies, except that if she ran over your kid, she'd want one?

I don’t think feminism should be particularly controversial topic, but controversy is obviously built around it.

Says the imperious clot-head who once derided Abbie, BluHarmony, and Scented Nectar with...

I object to your treating these “equity feminists”, adherents to an ideology that is self-described as “non-empirical”, and holding them up as pillars of rational thought.

For laffs, go ahead and Google "equity feminism" and "non-empirical" and see what page holds the top spot of the mere 8 hits returned.

[justinvacula]

New from Surly Amy:

As many of you know, Ron Lindsay, CEO of The Center for Inquiry made some opening remarks at Women in Secularism 2 that shocked and offended a large portion of the audience, a majority of the speakers and many feminists and onlookers in the secular community. He also lashed out directly at Rebecca Watson while doing some strange things at the event such as avoiding the fundraiser dinner but taking the time to welcome a known harasser who attended the event.

http://www.freezepage.com/1372006636SMVXUYEZYX

Really odd that Ron's welcoming me to the conference has been so controversial...especially considering

MELODY HENSLEY SHOOK MY HAND AND WELCOMED ME WHEN I WALKED INTO THE CONFERENCE.

[Jan Steen]

Ophie has now swallowed her pride and has turned into an apology apologist:

So now I think my post yesterday on Ron’s apology was too grudging. It read as chilly to me then, but see Stephanie’s post for reasons to think it’s not. (...) Yes. The hell with being grudging. I apologize for being grudging. I take it back.

Amy too is optimistic.

You know what would be great for WiS3 (assuming it happens)? Martha Nussbaum and Christina Hoff Sommers doing a dialogue.

These people are soooo transparent. How stupid do they think their sycophants are?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

[Kareem]

New from Surly Amy:

As many of you know, Ron Lindsay, CEO of The Center for Inquiry made some opening remarks at Women in Secularism 2 that shocked and offended a large portion of the audience, a majority of the speakers and many feminists and onlookers in the secular community. He also lashed out directly at Rebecca Watson while doing some strange things at the event such as avoiding the fundraiser dinner but taking the time to welcome a known harasser who attended the event.

http://www.freezepage.com/1372006636SMVXUYEZYX

Really odd that Ron's welcoming me to the conference has been so controversial...especially considering

MELODY HENSLEY SHOOK MY HAND AND WELCOMED ME WHEN I WALKED INTO THE CONFERENCE.

[youtube]mfhBM_Yay6w[/youtube]

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

It's interesting to observe that the commentariat at Ophie's tended to consider Linday's words a not-pology, which also seemed to be Peezus' opinion there. But Zvan and Ophie are wholeheartedly accepting the apology as if it were a noble sacrifice. Their sycophants are expected to behave like weathervanes. Let's see if they will. My guess is they will.

I would always throw back into their faces that they are having a hissyfit over a very watered down mustdenounce. I mean, after all, it's perfectly reasonable to insist that people denounce bad stuff just in case they might be guilty, isn't it? Lindsay did make a noble sacrifice. He's got nothing to notpologise for yet he's indulging them like a benevolent parent taking some responsibility for their feefees.

[Kareem]

Ophie has now swallowed her pride and has turned into an apology apologist:

So now I think my post yesterday on Ron’s apology was too grudging. It read as chilly to me then, but see Stephanie’s post for reasons to think it’s not. (...) Yes. The hell with being grudging. I apologize for being grudging. I take it back.

Amy too is optimistic.

You know what would be great for WiS3 (assuming it happens)? Martha Nussbaum and Christina Hoff Sommers doing a dialogue.

These people are soooo transparent. How stupid do they think their sycophants are?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

Very stupid.

[acathode]

It's interesting to observe that the commentariat at Ophie's tended to consider Linday's words a not-pology, which also seemed to be Peezus' opinion there. But Zvan and Ophie are wholeheartedly accepting the apology as if it were a noble sacrifice. Their sycophants are expected to behave like weathervanes. Let's see if they will. My guess is they will.

Of course they will, they are junkies, and if they'll have to forget about how evil Lindsay was until just 24 hours ago to keep getting their fix, they'll do just that. Of course, they'll take the chance to squeeze the "notpology" for every ounce of self-righteous indignation they can get, since unlike Benson and Zvan, they aren't potentially risking some sweet speaking gigs.
In a week though, they'll have chased that dragon to something or someone else to be VERY OUTRAGED and DEEPLY OFFENDED about, and will have completely forgotten about CFI (until Lindsay happen to dare be a skeptic about FTB again, in which case they'll go for the "hindsight 20/20" high).

[Badger3k]

Someone posted about Penny Arcade earlier on. More fallout because of SJW sensitivities:
http://kotaku.com/indie-developer-pulls ... -532336421

Free publicity for the developers of the game. No one knew about their shit game before, now everyone is going to be talking about it, at least in SJW circles.

Talking, but not buying :whistle:

Never heard of this game until now. Looks mildly interesting, but from the attitude of the designers, I wouldn't give them my money even if it sounded like a killer game. I like quite a few indy games (recently played "The Cave" a side-scrolling puzzle game which has an interessting storyline and no violence at all), but some of them give off that arrogant "we're better than you" attitude. Maybe pretentious is the word?

[Tony Parsehole]

Ophie has now swallowed her pride and has turned into an apology apologist:

So now I think my post yesterday on Ron’s apology was too grudging. It read as chilly to me then, but see Stephanie’s post for reasons to think it’s not. (...) Yes. The hell with being grudging. I apologize for being grudging. I take it back.

Amy too is optimistic.

You know what would be great for WiS3 (assuming it happens)? Martha Nussbaum and Christina Hoff Sommers doing a dialogue.

These people are soooo transparent. How stupid do they think their sycophants are?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

Oh, come on! Even Josh The Sycophantic Spokesgay, must be getting sick of this shit.

[bovarchist]

Ophie has now swallowed her pride and has turned into an apology apologist:

So now I think my post yesterday on Ron’s apology was too grudging. It read as chilly to me then, but see Stephanie’s post for reasons to think it’s not. (...) Yes. The hell with being grudging. I apologize for being grudging. I take it back.

Amy too is optimistic.

You know what would be great for WiS3 (assuming it happens)? Martha Nussbaum and Christina Hoff Sommers doing a dialogue.

These people are soooo transparent. How stupid do they think their sycophants are?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

One thing I will say about FTBloggers...I think they've got a pretty realistic idea of how stupid their sycophants are.

(unrelated: for as long as I can remember, I've spelled and pronounced it 'syncophants'. I was wrong!)

[Whig]

I wonder how much of this jumping at the apology has to do with EBW proof of trying to get Melody/Rebecca the job? They've been pretty quiet on that front.

[Tony Parsehole]

Never heard of this game until now. Looks mildly interesting, but from the attitude of the designers, I wouldn't give them my money even if it sounded like a killer game. I like quite a few indy games (recently played "The Cave" a side-scrolling puzzle game which has an interessting storyline and no violence at all), but some of them give off that arrogant "we're better than you" attitude. Maybe pretentious is the word?

The Cave eh? I'll have to give that a look. I like mah puzzle games.
Have you played Limbo or Braid?

[JackSkeptic]

They generate their own controversy out of nothing

Blog about it

Assume moral superiority

Blog some more


Tell me, what do these people ACTUALLY do that is useful? Anything that actually makes any difference to the world? Why does anyone take these people seriously?

[Badger3k]

Ophie has now swallowed her pride and has turned into an apology apologist:

So now I think my post yesterday on Ron’s apology was too grudging. It read as chilly to me then, but see Stephanie’s post for reasons to think it’s not. (...) Yes. The hell with being grudging. I apologize for being grudging. I take it back.

Amy too is optimistic.

You know what would be great for WiS3 (assuming it happens)? Martha Nussbaum and Christina Hoff Sommers doing a dialogue.

These people are soooo transparent. How stupid do they think their sycophants are?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... /06/onward

Oh, come on! Even Josh The Sycophantic Spokesgay, must be getting sick of this shit.

All they have to do is show a little ass to kiss, or point out someone else to get outraged over, and this little squabble will be forgotten about. They have memory like a sieve. They go from one outrage to the next and never connect the two in any conceivable fashion. I don't think they are capable of it, but I'd like to think that at some level they do realize it, and eventually the cognitive dissonance will get too great and they might actually mature at some date. I won't hold my breath, though. They could grow down into someone like Svan, Ophie, or Peezus.

[ERV]

FreeOK 2013 summary:

Jamila Bey-- Missed her talk cause partner had to work until 3 am. Glad we didnt rush to get there because she came in via Skype and it did not work at all, apparently. :(

Sean Faircloth-- LUVS. They have got some cool shit up their sleeves. Real shit for getting some things changed in US politics (NOTE: its not rage blogging). Faircloth is also a complete gentleman-- the autograph line for all the speakers was getting long, so he walked back through the line signing things/taking pics, and striking up conversations with pretty much every nearby attendee over the course of the day. Impressed me as a genuine hard working nice guy. Glad Richard seems to have someone of appropriate caliber with RDFRS.

Dale McGowan-- LUVS. His talk on secular parenting was fantastic. I agreed with pretty much everything he said, looking back on my freethinking upbringing. You can raise an Atheist kid, or you can raise a freethinking kid. You can tell kids what to think, or you can help them learn how to think. Great talk.

Emily Boyer-- I have no idea what her position is on feminism. Was a bit annoyed at one of her tweets re: line in mens room no line for ladies room lol secular conferences, when there were many women at this conference. Anyway, her talk was also SUPER FANTASTIC. I started a round of applause for the HPV vaccine when she mentioned it. Great, educational, but she gave out her phone number so people could send her anon questions about sex for the Q&A. She should get a Google Voice # for this and have the account forward it to her cell. She really shouldnt do that with her real phone # cause people suck. If anyone knows her, passing on the pro-tip would be nice :)

Zack Popplin-- ADORABLE. He showed a video of a state senate member (blonde female) badgering him about 'the little letters after peoples names' on this list he gave them (Nobel winners opposing the Creationism bill in Louisiana). Of course the punchline was 'lol stupid politician', but that lady would have gotten a talkin to from me. She was being extremely aggressive and confrontational with a child (he had to have been 16, 17 in that), completely and utterly inappropriate behavior for an elected official.

Seth Andrews-- There really are no words for how much I love Seth. As Ive said before, just being *around* him can make anyone look and feel better. Positive, real guy.

Lawrence Krauss-- Science! I got a B in Physics II (winces), I followed him well enough to get the punchline (scientists working on the backs of other scientists for generation after generation led to the Higgs) and he used a penis joke to explain relativity (SHRINKAGE!)

Great time, YAY for the organizers and volunteers and as always, all of the attendees were fantastic to talk with too. So many new friends in one day :-D

[H. Korban]

It's interesting to observe that the commentariat at Ophie's tended to consider Linday's words a not-pology, which also seemed to be Peezus' opinion there. But Zvan and Ophie are wholeheartedly accepting the apology as if it were a noble sacrifice. Their sycophants are expected to behave like weathervanes. Let's see if they will. My guess is they will.

Of course they will, they are junkies, and if they'll have to forget about how evil Lindsay was until just 24 hours ago to keep getting their fix, they'll do just that. Of course, they'll take the chance to squeeze the "notpology" for every ounce of self-righteous indignation they can get, since unlike Benson and Zvan, they aren't potentially risking some sweet speaking gigs.
In a week though, they'll have chased that dragon to something or someone else to be VERY OUTRAGED and DEEPLY OFFENDED about, and will have completely forgotten about CFI (until Lindsay happen to dare be a skeptic about FTB again, in which case they'll go for the "hindsight 20/20" high).

It seems that the Buffoons are reading The Slymepit and getting throughly confused whether Ron's apology was was really an apology or another "go suck an egg" statement. The Pit is doing a great job of driving these Buffoons nuts and causing weeping breakdowns. It is all very amusing.

[Lsuoma]

One thing I will say about FTBloggers...I think they've got a pretty realistic idea of how stupid their sycophants are.

(unrelated: for as long as I can remember, I've spelled and pronounced it 'syncophants'. I was wrong!)

Syncophants are elephants dancing in time with one another.

[Gefan]

They generate their own controversy out of nothing

Blog about it

Assume moral superiority

Blog some more


Tell me, what do these people ACTUALLY do that is useful? Anything that actually makes any difference to the world? Why does anyone take these people seriously?

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is the down side for Lindsay and CFI to simply and definitively tell the entire poisonous rabble to fuck off?
These clowns don't pay anyone's salary. They alienate the wider public. They are an embarrassment. "Don't let the door hit you on your inflamed red ass on the way out", should surely have been a more sensible response.

[JackSkeptic]

Benson says next years WIS could invite Christina Hoff Sommers, who is, according to them, an anti-feminist of Slympit proportions. Of course as they hate listening to anyone who is not fully onside there was protest about that idea.

Then Benson says:

'She’s the source of most of the talking points of anti-feminists, so she would be the right person to have that discussion of the stuff Ron talked about, and Nussbaum would be the ideal opponent.'

Is it me or is she actually suggesting the feminism promoted by them is now open to enquiry, discussion and critical analysis? That goes against everything most of FtB would ever put up with. It's why Lindsay was hung out to dry as that's exactly what he was doing.

Is Benson remembering her roots as someone who once believed nothing should be free from examination. If so that is a radical turn around.

[Gumby]

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is the down side for Lindsay and CFI to simply and definitively tell the entire poisonous rabble to fuck off?
These clowns don't pay anyone's salary. They alienate the wider public. They are an embarrassment. "Don't let the door hit you on your inflamed red ass on the way out", should surely have been a more sensible response.

And I think that's exactly what they would do, but politics gets in the way. Execrable or not PZ and his minions have a lot of internet influence in the community, and they're quite good at raising shitstorms. Lindsay politely doesn't kiss the Axis's collective asses, PZ and his pals start a bullying shitstorm. The shitstorm would be of Yellowstone megavolcano proportion if CFI just told them flat out to fuck off. CFI has a business to run and they want to appear as reasonable to as wide a group of people as possible. Of course, the risk they take is going full Neville Chamberlain. That hurts them just as much as telling PZ to fuck himself.

Given the length of time it has taken for Lindsay to issue this "apology", and given how carefully parsed it seemed to be, I'm thinking that CFI is playing pure politics and walking the tightrope as best they can.

[JackSkeptic]

They generate their own controversy out of nothing

Blog about it

Assume moral superiority

Blog some more


Tell me, what do these people ACTUALLY do that is useful? Anything that actually makes any difference to the world? Why does anyone take these people seriously?

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is the down side for Lindsay and CFI to simply and definitively tell the entire poisonous rabble to fuck off?
These clowns don't pay anyone's salary. They alienate the wider public. They are an embarrassment. "Don't let the door hit you on your inflamed red ass on the way out", should surely have been a more sensible response.

Well, CFI have no need to do that. Losing subs for no good reason is not good business. Also by keeping them 'on side' they are less likely to do damage. It's the same tactic politicians use with their enemies by appointing them in junior positions of power. JREF had to do it, they had no choice as they were so badly infected, but CFI does have a choice.

It also buys them some time to decide what to do, if anything. These clowns tried to screw over WIS2 to satisfy their narcissism and If I was CFI I would never invite them to speak again, they are too disruptive to free and open debate. But they can take their time with these decisions and see how things develop.

[justinvacula]

Benson says next years WIS could invite Christina Hoff Sommers, who is, according to them, an anti-feminist of Slympit proportions. Of course as they hate listening to anyone who is not fully onside there was protest about that idea.

Then Benson says:

'She’s the source of most of the talking points of anti-feminists, so she would be the right person to have that discussion of the stuff Ron talked about, and Nussbaum would be the ideal opponent.'

Is it me or is she actually suggesting the feminism promoted by them is now open to enquiry, discussion and critical analysis? That goes against everything most of FtB would ever put up with. It's why Lindsay was hung out to dry as that's exactly what he was doing.

Is Benson remembering her roots as someone who once believed nothing should be free from examination. If so that is a radical turn around.

Well, remember, feminism isn't up for debate as far as Secular Woman is concerned...nor are they obliged to listen to dissenting ideas:

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... community/

“At Secular Woman, the principle that “feminism is a movement to end sexism, sexist exploitation, and oppression” (Hooks, 2000, p. viii) is taken as a given, and not a topic for debate. As a secular feminist organization committed to understanding and exposing societal constructs that contribute to the inequality of women and other oppressed groups, we have no desire to listen to, respect, or continuously debunk overtly sexist viewpoints. Just as most scientists are not interested in debating the beliefs of creationists, we are not interested in debating gender-biased, racist, homophobic, or trans*phobic beliefs. [...] Those of us working to challenge systemic sexism should be under no obligation to listen to or be more charitable to our opponents.”

[another lurker]

Which leads me to ask, what exactly is the down side for Lindsay and CFI to simply and definitively tell the entire poisonous rabble to fuck off?
These clowns don't pay anyone's salary. They alienate the wider public. They are an embarrassment. "Don't let the door hit you on your inflamed red ass on the way out", should surely have been a more sensible response.

Which is funny, because, according to the "Godless Bitches" (podcast 3.09 if you wanna punish yourself) and Surly Amy, the 'pit and everyone else not on their side is merely a minority of loud-mouthed, yet harmless, misogynists! Yep. They even have the support of the public at large, they are mainstream - didn't ya'll get the memo?

[Ape+lust]

Ophelia is oozing noble piety now that she's discovered Blackford's tweets.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... nd-timely/

What a horrible thing to say. Even what Ron said to CFI staff and branch leaders is terrible? Russell is so confident that all the staff and all the branch leaders are completely wrong to be upset about anything that he knows it was terrible for Ron to apologize to them?

Of course, everyone was upset, for the same reasons Ophelia was upset. She knows this, because she does.

Yeah, and the guy they've been shitting on these past 2 years is presumptuous for thinking Lindsay's getting the same treatment.

I don’t see how he can reasonably make such a sweeping and savage assertion.

Savage assertion. Mykeru's tweet "vibrates with rage." Gurdur "violently disagreed" with her. The woman lives in her own private disaster movie.

Oh, and Russell is a colonialist for meddling in US affairs.

[JackSkeptic]

Benson says next years WIS could invite Christina Hoff Sommers, who is, according to them, an anti-feminist of Slympit proportions. Of course as they hate listening to anyone who is not fully onside there was protest about that idea.

Then Benson says:

'She’s the source of most of the talking points of anti-feminists, so she would be the right person to have that discussion of the stuff Ron talked about, and Nussbaum would be the ideal opponent.'

Is it me or is she actually suggesting the feminism promoted by them is now open to enquiry, discussion and critical analysis? That goes against everything most of FtB would ever put up with. It's why Lindsay was hung out to dry as that's exactly what he was doing.

Is Benson remembering her roots as someone who once believed nothing should be free from examination. If so that is a radical turn around.

Well, remember, feminism isn't up for debate as far as Secular Woman is concerned...nor are they obliged to listen to dissenting ideas:

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... community/

“At Secular Woman,...”

Yes, I was only talking about Benson.