If thou gazest long into the Pit, the Pit will also gaze into thee

jjbinx007 wrote:Also, some new comments in the Justicar thread are interesting:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-619574

Aneris wrote:Pinker really doesn't like it. Can we enlist him against the community harrasocrats of Benson, Watson, Zvan and Co.?

BarnOwl wrote:http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-619574

Michael K Gray wrote:

BarnOwl wrote:http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-619574
Wow, Myers really is a dishonest arsebag in that thread.

Where, exactly?

Couch wrote:ZOMG! Romania in Eurovision! I'm speechless.

(PS, Phil, was that you doing a cameo for Armenia?)

Sorry for no linkage. I'm watching it on TV. Kids haven't seen Eurovision before and are open-mouthed, bewildered.

justinvacula wrote:Thanks everyone for the support. Everything is going well here at #WIScfi. The death stares, groaning, and rudeness from some attendees is the only 'bad stuff' so far and not really a big deal.

Couch wrote:Phil, Eurovision song-contest is huge in Australia, in the it's-so-bad-it's-good way. People throw Eurovision parties everywhere and it is hosted on TV by a couple of comedian-musicians.

It's all in good fun and I'm basically aching from laughing so hard, and my kids are loving it!

PZ Himself wrote:Rumors to the contrary, I’m not usually in a rush to ban anyone. By the way, relevant to the OP, Justicar’s identity has been tracked down. The stupid git left clues all over the internet — using his own logic, I ought to tell him what an ass he is and recite all the evidence that leads directly to him. It seems he gets his boring style from narrating WOW videos on youtube…

[...]

You counter your own argument. Neither Welch nor Smith show any maturity despite being “out”. I’m not going to his employer. But I think it’s fair that the police be informed of the identity of a stalker.

Hyperdeath, the Atheism Plus Admin wrote:If you know who Justicar is, out him. Playing “I know where you live” games from behind a pseudonym utterly forfeits any moral right to privacy.

PZ Myers wrote:That’s easy to say, but one thing we know about these clowns is that they have no sense of proportion: the retaliation would be extraordinary, and it wouldn’t be aimed at me, male and safe and secure in my little town on the edge of nowhere, but against easier targets in the Seattle area. Against women. So no, I’m not going to do that.

Raging Bee wrote:So in other words, you’ve admitted that Justicar can continue to get away with his harassment because he has hostages. (And what would he do to those hostages that’s not like what he’s already doing?) I agree with your wanting to avoid doing anything that will result in harm being done to non-involved parties; but given the mental instability that people like Justicar show every day, I suspect that restraint doesn’t prevent them from lashing out, it only postpones it. Sooner or later, he will get worse than he currently is, just like that Markuze guy.

[url=http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/05/12/justicarintegralmath-wretched-skeevy-piece-of-internet-offal/comment-page-1/#comment-619657]Hyperdeath[/url], again wrote:I agree that I’m not on the front line here, and that it’s easy to be resolute in the face of hypothetic danger, but… I have to concur with what Raging Bee says. Restraint won’t prevent extra harassment. It will only delay it, while providing them with an advantage in the meantime. Having the moral highground doesn’t count for much either. They see decency as a weakness to be exploited. Perhaps it’s time for the FTBullies to live up their name? I wonder how many “brave heros” will remain, when they’re suddenly faced with targets that hit back?

I’m off in Washington DC at Women in Secularism 2, and I’m taking it easy. You can try to follow what’s going on at the conference via twitter, but that’s going to be a mess: unlike every other conference I’ve ever been at, the twitter feed for this one is nearly completely divorced from the reality of the event. It seems that if you put on a woman’s conference, the anti-feminists will send a representative or two to attend and throw out occasional twisted remarks prejudicial to the event, which will then be echoed by the obsessive mob in the lovely manosphere.

It’s genuinely bizarre. If you thought the #wiscfi hashtag was a corrupt mess before the conference, it’s even worse now. It’s representative of the endemic bigotry against women that even atheist/skeptic cons don’t get this degree of malicious nastiness from their opponents.

It didn’t help that the opening remarks (by a bearded white guy, no less) were basically a high five to the people trolling the con — Ron Lindsay tut-tutted the attendees for using the concept of privilege to shut down conversations with…who? The thugs who hate the whole idea of Women in Secularism? It was the most inappropriate, uninspiring, wrong-headed conference opening ever. The director of CFI trolled a conference built by his own organization, and offered words of encouragement to the people trying to disrupt it!

Michael K Gray wrote:

deLurch wrote:

katamari Damassi wrote:As long as you don't ask me to stop making McCreight horse faced jokes. I don't think I can stop. I have a problem.

Nobody here can stop you. But I think it is juvenile and lacks humor. At least the clown jokes were somewhat funny because they referenced behavior. But I take a dim view of taking a chunk out of someone just for their appearance alone. Especially when it is the views that they advocate that are a larger issue.

Cue the appropriately monikered puerile bodily-function-obsessed utter-cunt: "Tony Parsehole" to chastise you for your apropriately adult musings with another tasteless bit of his puerile "shock-and-aweful vomit-pix" advice on how you might choose to conduct yourself, and inaccurately assume that you are forcing him to heed your gorwn-up's advice...

Aneris wrote:It's official. Reading tweets is stalking. Whew, lucky us he didn't adopt Aunt Ophelia's definition where it's terrorism. The following bits are relatively close to each other.

PZ Himself wrote:Rumors to the contrary, I’m not usually in a rush to ban anyone. By the way, relevant to the OP, Justicar’s identity has been tracked down. The stupid git left clues all over the internet — using his own logic, I ought to tell him what an ass he is and recite all the evidence that leads directly to him. It seems he gets his boring style from narrating WOW videos on youtube…

[...]

You counter your own argument. Neither Welch nor Smith show any maturity despite being “out”. I’m not going to his employer. But I think it’s fair that the police be informed of the identity of a stalker.

Hyperdeath, the Atheism Plus Admin wrote:If you know who Justicar is, out him. Playing “I know where you live” games from behind a pseudonym utterly forfeits any moral right to privacy.

PZ Myers with a spontaneous comedic interlude:

PZ Myers wrote:That’s easy to say, but one thing we know about these clowns is that they have no sense of proportion: the retaliation would be extraordinary, and it wouldn’t be aimed at me, male and safe and secure in my little town on the edge of nowhere, but against easier targets in the Seattle area. Against women. So no, I’m not going to do that.

What!? Anyway. It goes on from there. With their fine sense of proportion they now treat making a youtube video (and reading public tweets beforehand) with serious harassment. Add some more flourish...

Raging Bee wrote:So in other words, you’ve admitted that Justicar can continue to get away with his harassment because he has hostages. (And what would he do to those hostages that’s not like what he’s already doing?) I agree with your wanting to avoid doing anything that will result in harm being done to non-involved parties; but given the mental instability that people like Justicar show every day, I suspect that restraint doesn’t prevent them from lashing out, it only postpones it. Sooner or later, he will get worse than he currently is, just like that Markuze guy.

[url=http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/05/12/justicarintegralmath-wretched-skeevy-piece-of-internet-offal/comment-page-1/#comment-619657]Hyperdeath[/url], again wrote:I agree that I’m not on the front line here, and that it’s easy to be resolute in the face of hypothetic danger, but… I have to concur with what Raging Bee says. Restraint won’t prevent extra harassment. It will only delay it, while providing them with an advantage in the meantime. Having the moral highground doesn’t count for much either. They see decency as a weakness to be exploited. Perhaps it’s time for the FTBullies to live up their name? I wonder how many “brave heros” will remain, when they’re suddenly faced with targets that hit back?

Hey Rocko, if you're still around (or find your name with vanity search), how about a dramatic reading of this? That would be awesome. The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane, and then have the nerve to talk about "proportion", or, Dunning-Kruger Effects. Yeah right.

welch wrote:

Michael K Gray wrote:

deLurch wrote:

katamari Damassi wrote:As long as you don't ask me to stop making McCreight horse faced jokes. I don't think I can stop. I have a problem.

Nobody here can stop you. But I think it is juvenile and lacks humor. At least the clown jokes were somewhat funny because they referenced behavior. But I take a dim view of taking a chunk out of someone just for their appearance alone. Especially when it is the views that they advocate that are a larger issue.

Cue the appropriately monikered puerile bodily-function-obsessed utter-cunt: "Tony Parsehole" to chastise you for your apropriately adult musings with another tasteless bit of his puerile "shock-and-aweful vomit-pix" advice on how you might choose to conduct yourself, and inaccurately assume that you are forcing him to heed your gorwn-up's advice...

Well grand-mama, we've had your lurvely Victorian scolding, with that checkbox filled, bring on parsehole.

Justicar’s identity has been tracked down.

But I think it’s fair that the police be informed of the identity of a stalker.

The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane,

Wonky Donkey wrote:

The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane,

This ^. QFT.

I find the whole thing quite uncomfortable reading. I've never been one to rubberneck a road accident or to exhibit schadenfreude.

If I was a member of PZ Myer's family, or a friend of his, I would be very very worried about him. Seeing his level of irrationality at the moment, well, some cog has pinged out of the works there and no mistake.

Poor bastard.

Aneris wrote:It's official. Reading tweets is stalking. Whew, lucky us he didn't adopt Aunt Ophelia's definition where it's terrorism. The following bits are relatively close to each other.

PZ Himself wrote:Rumors to the contrary, I’m not usually in a rush to ban anyone. By the way, relevant to the OP, Justicar’s identity has been tracked down. The stupid git left clues all over the internet — using his own logic, I ought to tell him what an ass he is and recite all the evidence that leads directly to him. It seems he gets his boring style from narrating WOW videos on youtube…

[...]

You counter your own argument. Neither Welch nor Smith show any maturity despite being “out”. I’m not going to his employer. But I think it’s fair that the police be informed of the identity of a stalker.

Hyperdeath, the Atheism Plus Admin wrote:If you know who Justicar is, out him. Playing “I know where you live” games from behind a pseudonym utterly forfeits any moral right to privacy.

PZ Myers with a spontaneous comedic interlude:

PZ Myers wrote:That’s easy to say, but one thing we know about these clowns is that they have no sense of proportion: the retaliation would be extraordinary, and it wouldn’t be aimed at me, male and safe and secure in my little town on the edge of nowhere, but against easier targets in the Seattle area. Against women. So no, I’m not going to do that.

What!? Anyway. It goes on from there. With their fine sense of proportion they now treat making a youtube video (and reading public tweets beforehand) with serious harassment. Add some more flourish...

Raging Bee wrote:So in other words, you’ve admitted that Justicar can continue to get away with his harassment because he has hostages. (And what would he do to those hostages that’s not like what he’s already doing?) I agree with your wanting to avoid doing anything that will result in harm being done to non-involved parties; but given the mental instability that people like Justicar show every day, I suspect that restraint doesn’t prevent them from lashing out, it only postpones it. Sooner or later, he will get worse than he currently is, just like that Markuze guy.

[url=http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/05/12/justicarintegralmath-wretched-skeevy-piece-of-internet-offal/comment-page-1/#comment-619657]Hyperdeath[/url], again wrote:I agree that I’m not on the front line here, and that it’s easy to be resolute in the face of hypothetic danger, but… I have to concur with what Raging Bee says. Restraint won’t prevent extra harassment. It will only delay it, while providing them with an advantage in the meantime. Having the moral highground doesn’t count for much either. They see decency as a weakness to be exploited. Perhaps it’s time for the FTBullies to live up their name? I wonder how many “brave heros” will remain, when they’re suddenly faced with targets that hit back?

Hey Rocko, if you're still around (or find your name with vanity search), how about a dramatic reading of this? That would be awesome. The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane, and then have the nerve to talk about "proportion", or, Dunning-Kruger Effects. Yeah right.

Wonky Donkey wrote:

The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane,

This ^. QFT.

I find the whole thing quite uncomfortable reading. I've never been one to rubberneck a road accident or to exhibit schadenfreude.

If I was a member of PZ Myer's family, or a friend of his, I would be very very worried about him. Seeing his level of irrationality at the moment, well, some cog has pinged out of the works there and no mistake.

Poor bastard.

justinvacula wrote:Lol.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-620906

http://i.imgur.com/fFHEPh8.jpg

justinvacula wrote:Thanks everyone for the support. Everything is going well here at #WIScfi. The death stares, groaning, and rudeness from some attendees is the only 'bad stuff' so far and not really a big deal.

Day two approaches and the events start at 8:30AM Eastern.

Jack wrote:

justinvacula wrote:Thanks everyone for the support. Everything is going well here at #WIScfi. The death stares, groaning, and rudeness from some attendees is the only 'bad stuff' so far and not really a big deal.

Day two approaches and the events start at 8:30AM Eastern.

I think it is great you are there.

Couch wrote:Phil, Eurovision song-contest is huge in Australia, in the it's-so-bad-it's-good way. People throw Eurovision parties everywhere and it is hosted on TV by a couple of comedian-musicians.

It's all in good fun and I'm basically aching from laughing so hard, and my kids are loving it!

AbsurdWalls wrote:

Wonky Donkey wrote:

The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane,

This ^. QFT.

I find the whole thing quite uncomfortable reading. I've never been one to rubberneck a road accident or to exhibit schadenfreude.

If I was a member of PZ Myer's family, or a friend of his, I would be very very worried about him. Seeing his level of irrationality at the moment, well, some cog has pinged out of the works there and no mistake.

Poor bastard.

I wouldn't mind if PZ or somebody else did a Justicar-style "look how easy you are to dox" video provided they redacted the information as much as Justicar did for his demonstration with JM. I would be surprised if for all of Justicar's bluster he hadn't managed to protect himself better though. Even Oolon claims to have figured out who he is. Given that it is Justicar however, it may be that the "identity" they think they have uncovered isn't his real identity. I doubt he would put himself in a position to be so easily proved wrong.

Of course the ridiculous thing is that this is even a consideration at all.

Tony Parsehole wrote:[quote="AbsurdWalls"
I wouldn't mind if PZ or somebody else did a Justicar-style "look how easy you are to dox" video provided they redacted the information as much as Justicar did for his demonstration with JM. I would be surprised if for all of Justicar's bluster he hadn't managed to protect himself better though. Even Oolon claims to have figured out who he is. Given that it is Justicar however, it may be that the "identity" they think they have uncovered isn't his real identity. I doubt he would put himself in a position to be so easily proved wrong.

Of course the ridiculous thing is that this is even a consideration at all.

justinvacula wrote:The usual stuff from PZ -

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ing-strong

A clip:

I’m off in Washington DC at Women in Secularism 2, and I’m taking it easy. You can try to follow what’s going on at the conference via twitter, but that’s going to be a mess: unlike every other conference I’ve ever been at, the twitter feed for this one is nearly completely divorced from the reality of the event. It seems that if you put on a woman’s conference, the anti-feminists will send a representative or two to attend and throw out occasional twisted remarks prejudicial to the event, which will then be echoed by the obsessive mob in the lovely manosphere.

It’s genuinely bizarre. If you thought the #wiscfi hashtag was a corrupt mess before the conference, it’s even worse now. It’s representative of the endemic bigotry against women that even atheist/skeptic cons don’t get this degree of malicious nastiness from their opponents.

It didn’t help that the opening remarks (by a bearded white guy, no less) were basically a high five to the people trolling the con — Ron Lindsay tut-tutted the attendees for using the concept of privilege to shut down conversations with…who? The thugs who hate the whole idea of Women in Secularism? It was the most inappropriate, uninspiring, wrong-headed conference opening ever. The director of CFI trolled a conference built by his own organization, and offered words of encouragement to the people trying to disrupt it!

AbsurdWalls wrote:

Tony Parsehole wrote:welch has a map of Africa tattooed on his arse.

Tony Parsehole wrote:welch has a map of Africa tattooed on his arse.

welch wrote:I've been possessed by Gorbachev. Who, as it turns out, has no sense of direction.

No time! I was going to do a quick post last night just to say Rebecca Goldstein’s talk was brilliant, but using the lobby Wifi means one sees all one’s favorite people right in front of one – so, in short, I had deeply interesting conversations with Amanda Knief and Michael DeDora and Seanna Watson and others and the post didn’t get written. So: Goldstein’s talk was brilliant. I’ll tell you why later – meanwhile Miri has a post.
Maryam is on in half an hour, along with others. It’s going to be amazing.
It’s too bad Ron elected to open the conference by using a lot of anti-feminist talking points like “sister punisher” and “privilege” and “shut up and listen” by way of telling us to be Good feminists. Sigh. A couple of people have said “sister punisher” on one or two occasions; it’s hardly a central platform of the demonic Secular Feminists. Telling us, essentially, not to be stupid and dogmatic and coercive wasn’t really a good welcoming intro. (Hint: we weren’t planning to be stupid and dogmatic and coercive, and we’re not children, and we’re not thick.)
So that was a sour note, and has caused a good deal of puzzlement and irritation, but other than that – it’s being amazing.

AbsurdWalls wrote:

Wonky Donkey wrote:

The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane,

This ^. QFT.

I find the whole thing quite uncomfortable reading. I've never been one to rubberneck a road accident or to exhibit schadenfreude.

If I was a member of PZ Myer's family, or a friend of his, I would be very very worried about him. Seeing his level of irrationality at the moment, well, some cog has pinged out of the works there and no mistake.

Poor bastard.

I wouldn't mind if PZ or somebody else did a Justicar-style "look how easy you are to dox" video provided they redacted the information as much as Justicar did for his demonstration with JM. I would be surprised if for all of Justicar's bluster he hadn't managed to protect himself better though. Even Oolon claims to have figured out who he is. Given that it is Justicar however, it may be that the "identity" they think they have uncovered isn't his real identity. I doubt he would put himself in a position to be so easily proved wrong.

Of course the ridiculous thing is that this is even a consideration at all.

welch wrote:

Tony Parsehole wrote:welch has a map of Africa tattooed on his arse.

Fell off a ladder, you get a bruise or two when that happens.

justinvacula wrote:Lol.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-620906

http://i.imgur.com/fFHEPh8.jpg

AbsurdWalls wrote:

welch wrote:I've been possessed by Gorbachev. Who, as it turns out, has no sense of direction.

Bravo.

Dilurk wrote:Which is precisely why I am Dilurk here and [redacted] elsewhere. These people are as creepy as the stalkers I have had to deal with under [redacted] elsewhere, I don't need more "fun". You kids, I don't care about as I am not at all worried about you guys. Isn't that ironic, the Slymepit with the supposed reputation of stalking behaviour are the very people I am not worried about?

Remember what I said here? viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73&p=4650#p4650

Jack wrote:

Couch wrote:Phil, Eurovision song-contest is huge in Australia, in the it's-so-bad-it's-good way. People throw Eurovision parties everywhere and it is hosted on TV by a couple of comedian-musicians.

It's all in good fun and I'm basically aching from laughing so hard, and my kids are loving it!

In the UK a well known broadcaster called Terry Wogan used to voice over. He had a great way of seeming serious while abusing the terrible singing and dress sense of the performers. Now he is gone I don't bother watching. In the final a large chunk of the votes are political and have little to do with how good a song is.

Dilurk wrote:

AbsurdWalls wrote:

Wonky Donkey wrote:

The whole thing looks like they've gone completely insane,

This ^. QFT.

I find the whole thing quite uncomfortable reading. I've never been one to rubberneck a road accident or to exhibit schadenfreude.

If I was a member of PZ Myer's family, or a friend of his, I would be very very worried about him. Seeing his level of irrationality at the moment, well, some cog has pinged out of the works there and no mistake.

Poor bastard.

I wouldn't mind if PZ or somebody else did a Justicar-style "look how easy you are to dox" video provided they redacted the information as much as Justicar did for his demonstration with JM. I would be surprised if for all of Justicar's bluster he hadn't managed to protect himself better though. Even Oolon claims to have figured out who he is. Given that it is Justicar however, it may be that the "identity" they think they have uncovered isn't his real identity. I doubt he would put himself in a position to be so easily proved wrong.

Of course the ridiculous thing is that this is even a consideration at all.

Which is precisely why I am Dilurk here and [redacted] elsewhere. These people are as creepy as the stalkers I have had to deal with under [redacted] elsewhere, I don't need more "fun". You kids, I don't care about as I am not at all worried about you guys. Isn't that ironic, the Slymepit with the supposed reputation of stalking behaviour are the very people I am not worried about?

Remember what I said here? viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73&p=4650#p4650

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:Justicar expressed concern at Abbie's about being doxxed. He is a gay man with children and doesn't want to get them, or himself, exposed. Well, at least that's what I remember and I could be wrong, but I think that's how he went about it.

Anyway, What Myers and friends are doing is disgusting.

Dilurk wrote:
Which is precisely why I am Dilurk here and [redacted] elsewhere. These people are as creepy as the stalkers I have had to deal with under [redacted] elsewhere, I don't need more "fun". You kids, I don't care about as I am not at all worried about you guys. Isn't that ironic, the Slymepit with the supposed reputation of stalking behaviour are the very people I am not worried about?

Remember what I said here? viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73&p=4650#p4650