Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Patrick]

From the Novella thread ( http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... g-forward/ )

# erikthebassiston 26 Feb 2013 at 10:16 am

Bill Openthalt,
Odd how I have no problem at all imagining some one making the same argument during the civil rights movement.
Steven,
I would love to able to make a charitable interpretation of the other side’s demands, but I can’t fathom such a list that doesn’t include women shutting up.
Windy,
Your list reads like a straw fest. In isolation, none of these things are particularly egregious. It’s when such behavior is done with the intent of creating a hostile environment that it rises to the level of harassment and should not be tolerated if we expect to create an open and welcome environment for every one.

Why do they keep saying their opponents are trying to silence women? What can they point to that leads them to think that? I find this and the "Bitches ain't shit" trope extremely frustrating as it is extreme strawmanning. I could understand not knowing what people here want, and that it partly because there are lots of us and we don't all want the same thing, but as far as I am aware nobody thinks like that.

Eric can't fathom a list of "demands" from us that doesn't include "women shutting up". Here's one to help cure their lack of imagination: http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=250 I don't claim it represents any or all of the slymepit, but it is one possible list of demands.

That's a great start. I especially like the commitment to requiring evidence for all claims and clear definitions of terms. I would like to see an emphasis on the importance of free speech as well.

I encourage you to post it on Novella's blog. The stark difference between the real skeptical values you've listed and the petulant demands of the FTB/A+ regulars is clear.

[Gumby]

Wow. Another one to go into the museum - though at this rate, it's beginning to look more like Ellenbeth's padded cell.

Did she really 'shop a gay man to make it look like he had full-blown AIDS? Fuck, that's sick.

Just remember, we're the bad guys. :lol:

The goodness of a persons actions are irrelevant. Salvation can only be achieved by accepting PeeZus, as Harriet Hall has just done.

That's not what Hall did. She simply was being the class act that she is, and offered an olive branch in hopes of making things a bit better in the community. However, as Decius correctly pointed out, the whole brouhaha was nothing more than a Trojan Horse, one that Peezus and Friends will no doubt use to claim that they have made a convert out of her.

I understand why Hall did what she did, and commend her for her intentions. Unfortunately, the olive branch offering that she did only produces good results when it is performed toward reasonable and decent people who similarly act in good faith. And as we all know, PZ and his gang of thugs are anything but reasonable and decent, and "good faith" means absolutely nothing to them... as we can see from PZ's fast-forming narrative of Surly Amy being so noble and gracious, and Harriet Hall finally having the sense to step back from the abyss. It's nauseating, but expected.

[JackSkeptic]

PZ Myers on the whole Amy Roth/Harriet Hall thing:

Harriet Hall and Amy Roth have reconciled. I’m pleased to hear it; I wasn’t worried about Amy, but Hall was going to hit mantle at the rate she was digging. It is a great relief that she stopped, looked around, and considered her situation thoughtfully, and then responded well.

For fuck's sake. Can't PZ Myers be gracious about anything? I think he's jealous because he realizes he's not 1/4 of the woman Harriet Hall is.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... lent-news/

I know Hall probably realized she had nothing to apologize for and just apologized to get over that hurdle and try to build meaningful dialogue in the future, because that's the kind of class act she is. But PZ just confirmed that was a mistake with that drivel. He just turned Hall's gracious act into a complete win for "his side" and a "lucky for Hall she did that" for her. He just fucked her into the ground with that shitty statement. It's a mistake to give these people the benefit of the doubt, because they're only concerned with "winning". They'll turn everything, even classy moves by the other side, into a weapon they can use against them.

I don't agree for the simple reason Dr Hall will be seen as reasonable and PZ a bitter man trying to score points where he can. Amy Roth will win from it too and she deserves to. Good for her and good for Dr Hall.

For me at least FtB/A+ have little genuine interest in women's equality or in any form of social justice at all. They clearly do not understand what it means anyway, their beliefs are all made up simplistic junk. It is a big ego trip for them. The 'you must apologise' meme only comes from the arrogant SJW's, not from us. The scream of triumphalism only comes from them as it has fed their ego's and it makes them feel good. What is right or what is wrong is irrelevant to them. How people comport themselves is of no interest to them either. The get a massive kick from their self righteous narrative. It is better than drugs for them. It's a form of sweet revenge and they need it badly.

Their big mistake is they assume everyone is like them. But we are not. Most of us are rational and tolerant of other points of view. We don't hate. We understand that everyone has different life experiences and opinions. That is why they will ultimately fail as they only tolerate one opinion, theirs. It's unfortunate that their beliefs are so dismissive of large sections of the community, highly poisonous and having little to do with reality. Otherwise we could simply ignore them as we would a mad aunt who lives in a home for the deluded.

The leaders of this community can't easily deal with them without risking damage to themselves, but no-life nobody's like myself can.

[AnotherLurkerMkII]

This happens to me when playing timed games. I tense up and tend to make myself physically ill. Do I continue to torture myself and my body with this? No. I fucking don't play timed games. Do I yell "why are you oppressing me from playing timed games?" No. I fucking don't play timed games. It's a pretty simple solution.

Agreed. If something you really like is making you frustrated, maybe you shouldn't be doing that - or, if you really like it, walk away when frustration starts to make you stressed.

Did you hear that, Melody? It is good advice. Take it for free, or shut the fuck up.

[Apples]

This is an obviously false statement.

I made a complaint in this thread:

"I am specifically complaining that you will NOT punish a moderator for being biased, unfair, or breaking the rules."

Your refusal to address this complaint does not make it suddenly not a complaint.

Mod note: This is NOT a specific complaint, it's a general complaint about general practices. Direct us to a specific instance of a moderator behaving in this manner or stop posting in this thread. You will link a specific post, quote the part(s) of that post that illustrate your complaint and explain why you object. If you post anything other than what I've just described in this thread from this point forward, you'll receive a 7 day ban pending moderator discussion about whether to ban you permanently.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 855#p71855

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/223861 ... king-o.gif

[Cunning Punt]

Is there a name for what is wrong with Oolong?

He's a cunt.

[ReneeHendricks]

This happens to me when playing timed games. I tense up and tend to make myself physically ill. Do I continue to torture myself and my body with this? No. I fucking don't play timed games. Do I yell "why are you oppressing me from playing timed games?" No. I fucking don't play timed games. It's a pretty simple solution.

Agreed. If something you really like is making you frustrated, maybe you shouldn't be doing that - or, if you really like it, walk away when frustration starts to make you stressed.

Did you hear that, Melody? It is good advice. Take it for free, or shut the fuck up.

Thank you and exactly! I'd say the same to Melody but I figure she'd freak out and claim that she got a "stress injury" from me saying something ;)

[Bhurzum]

I'm thinking that if being on the Internet causes you "stress injuries" perhaps not being on it is a solution? I know, I know. The cries of "how dare you tell me not to be on the Internet" usually follow that sort of thing. But seriously. It's like taking a hammer to your thumb again and again. If it's causing you pain, why continue to do it??

You've done it now Renee!

Now we're a bunch of hammer wielding thugs.

[LadyChillax]

I'd say the same to Melody but I figure she'd freak out and claim that she got a "stress injury" from me saying something

Sounds like a power outage would be her best friend. Or a technological intervention by her nearest and dearest?

Somehow, I imagine her hiding away surreptitious burner phones for the internet access . . . or skulking off in the middle of the night to the 24-hour internet cafe for five minutes on twitter.

[codelette]

I'll talk about online harassment as a source for stress injuries. Because, fuck good ergonomic practices! They don't do shit anyways...

[another lurker]

ROFLMAO! Sometimes Melody Hensley is the "gift that keeps on giving":

melodyhensley.JPG

I googled 'stress injury' - all I got were links about RSI.

Is she saying that all the professional victim blog posts she made have fucked her wrists?

I'm thinking that if being on the Internet causes you "stress injuries" perhaps not being on it is a solution? I know, I know. The cries of "how dare you tell me not to be on the Internet" usually follow that sort of thing. But seriously. It's like taking a hammer to your thumb again and again. If it's causing you pain, why continue to do it??

Funny thing is, my younger brother really gets stressed while playing DotA online, because apparently his teammates usually suck at the game or something. He shouts, and curses, and throws his hands into the air in despair and impotence while he loses a game. And I feel pretty sympathetic towards him, because my good God there are a bunch of retards playing that game.

Then again, when he gets very stressed about that, he just stops playing the game for the day, and all is well. Maybe Melodramatic Melody should do that for a change.

This happens to me when playing timed games. I tense up and tend to make myself physically ill. Do I continue to torture myself and my body with this? No. I fucking don't play timed games. Do I yell "why are you oppressing me from playing timed games?" No. I fucking don't play timed games. It's a pretty simple solution.

World of Warcraft is full of asshats and retards. Every time I played I was stressed out and irritated from having to deal with these people.

So I quit! And I've never been happier!

[codelette]

I meant, I'll talk about the topic on our next safety meeting at work.

[Gefan]

Setar drops a weird/whiny post on his tumblr about how he lives in a police state. A commenter posts, "are you awake?"

Setar replies:

yes. because, unlike Real People who were either born filthy rich or were able to go into assloads of debt to get their Real Person Card (aka university degree) I was unable to cope with college and had to drop out. thus, I don’t deserve nice things like a job with reasonable and consistent hours, nor do I deserve adequate transportation. and don’t even mention the therapy and testing I need for my rampant mental issues (like whatever obsessive crap is making my brain scream about how this post is no longer perfect because I wrote it once then accidentally hit cancel and I should be ashamed of myself for even thinking of rewriting it), I should have just, um…worked harder and somehow been born to a family that wasn’t a bunch of hipsterish well off fauxgressives who heard “gifted” and immediately replaced me in their head with the kid from (pick your favourite animated show about school kids) who is all super-smart-get-straight-As-while-fostering-world-peace-and-curing-cancer-in-grade-five and bullshit like that, and thus didn’t take any of my problems seriously at all until I told them I was fucking suicidal (which is why I had to drop out of college). oh and not been bullied in a school system that was only just learning how to deal with bullying, that would have helped too probably.

what I do deserve is, apparently, free healthcare that barely covers even the bare minimum, and a couple hundred bucks a year plus a slightly inflated income tax refund. because, I have a job and I make a whole $17,000 a year, I totally don’t need assistance of any sort. in a supposedly hippy-liberal city where my $350 rent for an attic was like winning the lottery because the rent for one bedroom anything around here is usually double that. all because I was born to a shitty family

yeah. I’m mad. why aren’t you?

Where's Sergeant Hartman when we need him?

[Bhurzum]

Where's Sergeant Hartman when we need him?

Pile shot him :(

[cunt]

Poor Setar, life has been tough for him. Maybe he could re-train as a plumber and out-earn PZ.

[JackSkeptic]

ROFLMAO! Sometimes Melody Hensley is the "gift that keeps on giving":

melodyhensley.JPG

I googled 'stress injury' - all I got were links about RSI.

Is she saying that all the professional victim blog posts she made have fucked her wrists?

I'm thinking that if being on the Internet causes you "stress injuries" perhaps not being on it is a solution? I know, I know. The cries of "how dare you tell me not to be on the Internet" usually follow that sort of thing. But seriously. It's like taking a hammer to your thumb again and again. If it's causing you pain, why continue to do it??

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
"Then don't do that."

Sometimes the simplest things (even when stated in comedy) are the truest. I'm thinking people like Melody are just masochists.

Or she's building up some more victim points for a constructive dismissal case. I expect to see more of her inane invented ailments in the near future.

[Submariner]

Another "gem" of a post by the feminist "side".

*Allergy warning* Lot's of straw ahead.

# thetalkingstoveon 26 Feb 2013 at 10:24 am

“erikthebasist – it is easy to make a list of grievances you want the other side to own up to and correct.
Try this – make a similar list of the things that what you consider to be your side can and should acknowledge and improve.”

Steve…do the comments here not give you a pretty good idea of which side needs to do the vast majority of the corrections? I appreciate you’re trying to be a mediator, but you’re dealing with people who think feminism is at best irrelevant and at worst (apparently) dedicated to subjugating men.

On one side are people saying ‘let’s respect women. men should think about how they approach them. we shouldn’t use gendered slurs. We shouldn’t ascribe gender differences where there isn’t much evidence that they exist. Here’s some robust criticism.”

The other side says “women should just put up with it. I’ll say what I want. It’s obvious that there are differences even though I don’t have any evidence. don’t criticise Sam Harris. no, wait, not criticise – don’t LYNCH him. now here’s some photoshops, stalking websites and fake twitter accounts.”

The things which our side should do, Steve? Vacula pretty much told you what it would take: for Rebecca Watson (in particular, but I’ll take it it applies to the rest of Skepchick and FTB) to shut up.

[Cunning Punt]

ellenbeth

You are mixing up different situations.
The failed coup at the organization had nothing to do with the criminal case. I have a pending defamation case against the former board members for throwing those ridiculous paste and cut nonsense charges at me.

As for the marijuana charge, that was also dismissed. If you read carefully, I plead no contest to a paraphernalia charge. I did so because it was the easiest way to end this with no formal finding of guilt.

The marijuana was not mine. But that is irrelevant to being sober.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/sho ... p?t=656742

"Hey, that's not my stuff! I was just holding it for a friend, I swear!"

http://i.imgur.com/3cyrQs5.jpg

[cunt]

OMG weed, in florida! Better call in the SWAT team guys we've got a serious criminal here.

[ReneeHendricks]

"I can't work because the Internet stresses me out. Give me my disability, please."

[JackSkeptic]

This is an obviously false statement.

I made a complaint in this thread:

"I am specifically complaining that you will NOT punish a moderator for being biased, unfair, or breaking the rules."

Your refusal to address this complaint does not make it suddenly not a complaint.

Mod note: This is NOT a specific complaint, it's a general complaint about general practices. Direct us to a specific instance of a moderator behaving in this manner or stop posting in this thread. You will link a specific post, quote the part(s) of that post that illustrate your complaint and explain why you object. If you post anything other than what I've just described in this thread from this point forward, you'll receive a 7 day ban pending moderator discussion about whether to ban you permanently.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 855#p71855

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/223861 ... king-o.gif

Some of the respondents get what he is saying. Any mod who does not grasp he is being specific is either dense or dishonest and should not be a mod. He won't get a reply though as their rules are made up as they go and change from day to day. They have no policy to show him and he knows it.

[Dick Strawkins]

Another "gem" of a post by the feminist "side".

*Allergy warning* Lot's of straw ahead.

# thetalkingstoveon 26 Feb 2013 at 10:24 am

“erikthebasist – it is easy to make a list of grievances you want the other side to own up to and correct.
Try this – make a similar list of the things that what you consider to be your side can and should acknowledge and improve.”

Steve…do the comments here not give you a pretty good idea of which side needs to do the vast majority of the corrections? I appreciate you’re trying to be a mediator, but you’re dealing with people who think feminism is at best irrelevant and at worst (apparently) dedicated to subjugating men.

On one side are people saying ‘let’s respect women. men should think about how they approach them. we shouldn’t use gendered slurs. We shouldn’t ascribe gender differences where there isn’t much evidence that they exist. Here’s some robust criticism.”

The other side says “women should just put up with it. I’ll say what I want. It’s obvious that there are differences even though I don’t have any evidence. don’t criticise Sam Harris. no, wait, not criticise – don’t LYNCH him. now here’s some photoshops, stalking websites and fake twitter accounts.”

The things which our side should do, Steve? Vacula pretty much told you what it would take: for Rebecca Watson (in particular, but I’ll take it it applies to the rest of Skepchick and FTB) to shut up.

"now here’s some photoshops"

What is it with the photoshop hate?

Making pictures using photoshop is simply a medium that can be done well or done badly.
I presume they mean mocking satire of the type that some of us here post.
Well? What's wrong with that? I don't get it.
Is there some great ethical line in the sand we've overstepped?
It's photographic cartooning.
The cast majority of the photoshops that I have seen are obviously fakes - it's not as it we are putting PZ into porno scenes.
We are putting him and his horde into satirical settings, parodying their real life hypocrisy.
I'm pretty sure it must be annoying for them to see it, especially if it's done well and they realize that others are laughing at the picture.
But?
So fucking what.
Why should they be protected from satirists.

Photoshop them... Photoshop them to the ground.

[debaser71]

Every time I read some nonsensical article about "internet addiction" the article always talks about men playing video games or watching porn. Hmmmm...maybe if the authors would frame in such a way as what is happening with MBW "internet addiction" would make more sense to me. Frame it in a facebook, twitter, or social networking sort of way.

[Maximus]

From the Novella thread ( http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... g-forward/ )

# erikthebassiston 26 Feb 2013 at 10:16 am

Bill Openthalt,
Odd how I have no problem at all imagining some one making the same argument during the civil rights movement.
Steven,
I would love to able to make a charitable interpretation of the other side’s demands, but I can’t fathom such a list that doesn’t include women shutting up.
Windy,
Your list reads like a straw fest. In isolation, none of these things are particularly egregious. It’s when such behavior is done with the intent of creating a hostile environment that it rises to the level of harassment and should not be tolerated if we expect to create an open and welcome environment for every one.

Why do they keep saying their opponents are trying to silence women? What can they point to that leads them to think that? I find this and the "Bitches ain't shit" trope extremely frustrating as it is extreme strawmanning. I could understand not knowing what people here want, and that it partly because there are lots of us and we don't all want the same thing, but as far as I am aware nobody thinks like that.

Eric can't fathom a list of "demands" from us that doesn't include "women shutting up". Here's one to help cure their lack of imagination: http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=250 I don't claim it represents any or all of the slymepit, but it is one possible list of demands.

That's a great start. I especially like the commitment to requiring evidence for all claims and clear definitions of terms. I would like to see an emphasis on the importance of free speech as well.

I encourage you to post it on Novella's blog. The stark difference between the real skeptical values you've listed and the petulant demands of the FTB/A+ regulars is clear.

I agree. Pleae go post that on Novella's blog.

[Cunning Punt]

"I can't work because the Internet stresses me out. Give me my disability, please."

Well I was fapping to online porn and now I have carpal tunnel. Somebody should do something about this! A petition!

[JackSkeptic]

From the Novella thread ( http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... g-forward/ )

# erikthebassiston 26 Feb 2013 at 10:16 am

Bill Openthalt,
Odd how I have no problem at all imagining some one making the same argument during the civil rights movement.
Steven,
I would love to able to make a charitable interpretation of the other side’s demands, but I can’t fathom such a list that doesn’t include women shutting up.
Windy,
Your list reads like a straw fest. In isolation, none of these things are particularly egregious. It’s when such behavior is done with the intent of creating a hostile environment that it rises to the level of harassment and should not be tolerated if we expect to create an open and welcome environment for every one.

Why do they keep saying their opponents are trying to silence women? What can they point to that leads them to think that? I find this and the "Bitches ain't shit" trope extremely frustrating as it is extreme strawmanning. I could understand not knowing what people here want, and that it partly because there are lots of us and we don't all want the same thing, but as far as I am aware nobody thinks like that.

Eric can't fathom a list of "demands" from us that doesn't include "women shutting up". Here's one to help cure their lack of imagination: http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=250 I don't claim it represents any or all of the slymepit, but it is one possible list of demands.

That's a great start. I especially like the commitment to requiring evidence for all claims and clear definitions of terms. I would like to see an emphasis on the importance of free speech as well.

I encourage you to post it on Novella's blog. The stark difference between the real skeptical values you've listed and the petulant demands of the FTB/A+ regulars is clear.

I agree. Pleae go post that on Novella's blog.

They won't like it of course as they break all those conditions routinely. Their whole approach relies on doing that. They will pull the 'Your not Christian feminist if you do not know what we believe and come to the same conclusion as us from clear evidence that is wildly available.'

They are not rationalists and being rational scares them.

[cunt]

"now here’s some photoshops"

What is it with the photoshop hate?

Making pictures using photoshop is simply a medium that can be done well or done badly.
I presume they mean mocking satire of the type that some of us here post.
Well? What's wrong with that? I don't get it.
Is there some great ethical line in the sand we've overstepped?
It's photographic cartooning.
The cast majority of the photoshops that I have seen are obviously fakes - it's not as it we are putting PZ into porno scenes.
We are putting him and his horde into satirical settings, parodying their real life hypocrisy.
I'm pretty sure it must be annoying for them to see it, especially if it's done well and they realize that others are laughing at the picture.
But?
So fucking what.
Why should they be protected from satirists.

Photoshop them... Photoshop them to the ground.

I guess they're still annoyed about the Svandenburg, how somebody (you?) made it and then sent it to Svan as part of the Campaign Of Harassment!!! Except no, she had to wade through 50,000 thread herself to find something that was regarded by people here as a bit of fun for 5 minutes. Whatever though, facts don't matter. Photoshopping somebody totes steals their internet soul.

[Dick Strawkins]

"now here’s some photoshops"

What is it with the photoshop hate?

Making pictures using photoshop is simply a medium that can be done well or done badly.
I presume they mean mocking satire of the type that some of us here post.
Well? What's wrong with that? I don't get it.
Is there some great ethical line in the sand we've overstepped?
It's photographic cartooning.
The cast majority of the photoshops that I have seen are obviously fakes - it's not as it we are putting PZ into porno scenes.
We are putting him and his horde into satirical settings, parodying their real life hypocrisy.
I'm pretty sure it must be annoying for them to see it, especially if it's done well and they realize that others are laughing at the picture.
But?
So fucking what.
Why should they be protected from satirists.

Photoshop them... Photoshop them to the ground.

I guess they're still annoyed about the Svandenburg, how somebody (you?) made it and then sent it to Svan as part of the Campaign Of Harassment!!! Except no, she had to wade through 50,000 thread herself to find something that was regarded by people here as a bit of fun for 5 minutes. Whatever though, facts don't matter. Photoshopping somebody totes steals their internet soul.

I didn't call it the Svandenberg! That name only began to be associated with the picture recently (and like you said, we all forgot about it five minutes after it was originally posted.)
The original joke in any case was to do with her common nickname here - "Insvanity" - and the fact that that Hindenberg crash is famous for the lines "Oh the humanity".

Her ego, on the other hand, is the size of a zepplin.

[Submariner]

Sally Strange drops a non sequitur on Novella's blog:

Premise 1: Sexism is a problem in this society and culture. (Whether you’re in the USA or elsewhere, this is true; there are, as far as I know of, zero countries on the planet where there are no gender inequalities to address, though some countries have fewer and some have more.)

Premise 2: The skeptical community is composed of people who grew up with and exist within this culture and society.

Conclusion: Sexism is a problem in the skeptical community.

P1 Hatred of blacks is a problem in the South (US)

P2 Steve lives in the South

C Steve hates blacks.

[LMU]

From the Novella thread ( http://theness.com/neurologicablog/inde ... g-forward/ )

# erikthebassiston 26 Feb 2013 at 10:16 am

Bill Openthalt,
Odd how I have no problem at all imagining some one making the same argument during the civil rights movement.
Steven,
I would love to able to make a charitable interpretation of the other side’s demands, but I can’t fathom such a list that doesn’t include women shutting up.
Windy,
Your list reads like a straw fest. In isolation, none of these things are particularly egregious. It’s when such behavior is done with the intent of creating a hostile environment that it rises to the level of harassment and should not be tolerated if we expect to create an open and welcome environment for every one.

Why do they keep saying their opponents are trying to silence women? What can they point to that leads them to think that? I find this and the "Bitches ain't shit" trope extremely frustrating as it is extreme strawmanning. I could understand not knowing what people here want, and that it partly because there are lots of us and we don't all want the same thing, but as far as I am aware nobody thinks like that.

Eric can't fathom a list of "demands" from us that doesn't include "women shutting up". Here's one to help cure their lack of imagination: http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=250 I don't claim it represents any or all of the slymepit, but it is one possible list of demands.

That's a great start. I especially like the commitment to requiring evidence for all claims and clear definitions of terms. I would like to see an emphasis on the importance of free speech as well.

I encourage you to post it on Novella's blog. The stark difference between the real skeptical values you've listed and the petulant demands of the FTB/A+ regulars is clear.

Thanks! I might post it to Novella's blog in a few hours when I am again in front of a computer. If someone would like to make a post there making a similar point in the meantime that would be great.

[comslave]

Well I was fapping to online porn and now I have carpal tunnel. Somebody should do something about this! A petition!

I would love to see this on an insurance claim form.

[Outwest]

Sally Strange drops a non sequitur on Novella's blog:

Premise 1: Sexism is a problem in this society and culture. (Whether you’re in the USA or elsewhere, this is true; there are, as far as I know of, zero countries on the planet where there are no gender inequalities to address, though some countries have fewer and some have more.)

Premise 2: The skeptical community is composed of people who grew up with and exist within this culture and society.

Conclusion: Sexism is a problem in the skeptical community.

P1 Hatred of blacks is a problem in the South (US)

P2 Steve lives in the South

C Steve hates blacks.

The stupid of these people. I sometimes wonder if any these types ever stop to think about what they're going to say/write before they do.

[Submariner]

Poster can't geometry (Novella's Blog):

# rafalon 26 Feb 2013 at 1:11 pm

@Orac
Actually, I disagree with the idea of labelling some people as a lost cause.

While a 360 transformation might be unlikely, progress can be made with anyone.

360 would put you right back where you began. I think you mean 180.

[codelette]

The whole "women are people too" meme applies only to their women and their brand of so-called feminist men. The moment a woman posts here; she crosses into non-people territory. It seems that a woman (according to their views) have A voice -which is their approved speak. It seems also that Hugo S. is approved feminist-speak...therefore, I should start listening more to a self confessed perv and abuser if I want to build bridges with my PC skep sistahs. Right?

Ain't I a woman too?
According to that erikwhatver, I am not.

[cunt]

Haha. Oh yeah, and another part of the nefarious scheme is that I requested a decent original because I briefly considered photoshopping her for a minute or two, because I was bored. Bhoytony posted a source image and joked that somebody had already done it. Then your "Oh the huge zvanatee" pic. I never actually did photoshop her, but apparently even thinking about photoshopping Zvan is a heinous act worthy of mention.

[Gumby]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... db5c32.jpg

[Outwest]

Poster can't geometry (Novella's Blog):

# rafalon 26 Feb 2013 at 1:11 pm

@Orac
Actually, I disagree with the idea of labelling some people as a lost cause.

While a 360 transformation might be unlikely, progress can be made with anyone.

360 would put you right back where you began. I think you mean 180.

Math is hard! Quit oppressing the geometry-disabled! You'll never make it as an SJW...

[Dick Strawkins]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... db5c32.jpg

That's far too diverse for the FTB picnic!
It should be 99% white middle-class keyboard warriors!

[Gumby]

It should be 99% white middle-class keyboard warriors!

LOL. Had a hard time just finding those three need-to-piss-ers. Maybe they can be the servants that helped set up the picnic, although I hear PZ prefers Mexicans for manual labor.

[some guy]

Anybody seen this? Listen at 1:07:30
(youtube:21DGazrEZlE)

Well, it was more Brownian making a 'joke' at the expense of Mexican American immigrants, and the rest just laughed.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA MEXICANS DO MANUAL LABOR HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Generic non-funny joke, made funny again by escaping the lips of a SJW.

No, Brownian (a canadian) was saying (in response to PZ's suggestion that people might want to more to canada because of their healthcare and progressive attitudes) that he'd appreciate folks like masons and plumbers move up to Canada from the US to help fix up the place (he was joking, of course). He didn't mention Mexicans at all. PZ then brought up Mexicans by saying "Manual labor. Yeah! We can be your Mexicans". Presumably funny because those US folks who moved up there would then occupy a socioeconomic position in canada similar to that of a stereotypical Mexican in the US.

What the fuck would PZ Myers know about manual labor? Over that past two decades I have worked on roads, bridges, dams, pipelines, schools, hospitals, technical colleges, universities, battered women's shelters (how many "feminists" have that on their resume?) and laid hundreds of miles of water mains, sanitary sewer and storm sewer lines. One year's worth of the manual labor I have performed, and which Myers so clearly disdains, provides more real, tangible benefit to society than the work of a dozen lifetimes of a dozen third-rate hick town college professors like him.
In short, go fuck yourself Professor Myers, you smug, smarmy, self-important little cocksucker.

Maybe you can point me to the particular segment in those clips where he manifests evident “disdain” particularly for all Mexicans, because I sure didn’t hear that. Maybe some bias on your part?

And I quite agree with “some guy” about the “similar socioeconomic position”. To be charitable, although I’m not sure PZ is entitled to much of that, it seems that it really only qualifies as racism if he had asserted all Mexicans were like X. That would have been stereotyping, characterizing an entire group by the attributes of a segment of it, as with sexism.

Well, it does play to a stereotype. Not very eggregious (IMO). But it's the type of comment that if said by someone from the pit would have generated some loud accusations from the pit haters. Imagine variants of the conversation:

Brownian: "we need people up here to do 'X'".
PZ: "'X'! Yeah, we can be your 'Y'"

Actual conversation:
X = 'mason and plumbers' (arguably, 'manual labor'); Y = 'Mexicans'

Imagine if instead:
X= run grocery stores Y= Koreans
X= do laundry Y= Chinese
X= run kwiky marts Y= Pakistanis
X= lend money Y= Jews
X= do housework Y= wives

[Gefan]

Poor Setar, life has been tough for him. Maybe he could re-train as a plumber and out-earn PZ.

When I read Setar I'm embarrassed to admit I probably thought similarly at around age thirteen. I don't know how old Setar is but he's clearly, chronologically, an adult. What's astonishing, and rather frightening is that people with that level of immaturity are running around loose with full adult rights and a pathological aversion to responsibility of any kind.
Roth throws a screaming tantrum at a T-Shirt and runs home crying. Hensley fakes a nervous breakdown because of internet push-back and retires (again) to bed while taking a momentary break from self-inflicted social media drama to download disability application forms. Setar demands more handouts because, well, I don't know. College was too hard?
How did we get this far as a species?

[ReneeHendricks]

Poster can't geometry (Novella's Blog):

# rafalon 26 Feb 2013 at 1:11 pm

@Orac
Actually, I disagree with the idea of labelling some people as a lost cause.

While a 360 transformation might be unlikely, progress can be made with anyone.

360 would put you right back where you began. I think you mean 180.

Math is hard! Quit oppressing the geometry-disabled! You'll never make it as an SJW...

[youtube]NO0cvqT1tAE[/youtube]

[Tigzy]

Speaking of the InSvanity, Justin Vacula is clearly a man of wealth and taste, who's been around for a long, long year, and stole many a man's soul and faith.

Really, things would be alright if weren't for that old debbil!

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... #more-4762
http://new.freezepage.com/1361903688HFBENQJFHS

Sometimes the identity of the person making an argument tells us what their argument really says. It tells us what background they’re leaving out of their argument to make it sound as though they’re being reasonable. It tells us what they intend to use agreement with their argument to justify next. In short, it tells us how much charity is reasonable in interpreting the words of the argument.

Beware the Vacula, for he can cite scripture for his purpose!

[masakari2012]

Did anyone make a copy of Ben Radford's satire blog? It appears it's now 404.

[Apples]

Sally Strange drops a non sequitur on Novella's blog:

Premise 1: Sexism is a problem in this society and culture. (Whether you’re in the USA or elsewhere, this is true; there are, as far as I know of, zero countries on the planet where there are no gender inequalities to address, though some countries have fewer and some have more.)

Premise 2: The skeptical community is composed of people who grew up with and exist within this culture and society.

Conclusion: Sexism is a problem in the skeptical community.

Premise 1: Child molestation and drug-dealing are problems in this society and culture.

Premise 2: The skeptical community is composed of people who grew up with and exist within this culture and society.

Conclusion: Child molestation and drug-dealing are a problem in the skeptical community.

[Cunning Punt]

Sally Strange drops a non sequitur on Novella's blog:

Premise 1: Sexism is a problem in this society and culture. (Whether you’re in the USA or elsewhere, this is true; there are, as far as I know of, zero countries on the planet where there are no gender inequalities to address, though some countries have fewer and some have more.)

Premise 2: The skeptical community is composed of people who grew up with and exist within this culture and society.

Conclusion: Sexism is a problem in the skeptical community.

P1 Hatred of blacks is a problem in the South (US)

P2 Steve lives in the South

C Steve hates blacks.

She's not extrapolating from a group to a specific individual. She's talking about a large group of people as a subset of an even larger group. So if you accept premises one and two, you have to accept the conclusion. The devil as always is in the details. Talking generalities about society versus the specifics of Harriet Hall's T shirt and what should be done about it. (IMO nothing. I can't believe they are having an email exchange 8-9 months after this happened. Unbelievable.)

[JackSkeptic]

Sally Strange drops a non sequitur on Novella's blog:

Premise 1: Sexism is a problem in this society and culture. (Whether you’re in the USA or elsewhere, this is true; there are, as far as I know of, zero countries on the planet where there are no gender inequalities to address, though some countries have fewer and some have more.)

Premise 2: The skeptical community is composed of people who grew up with and exist within this culture and society.

Conclusion: Sexism is a problem in the skeptical community.

P1 Hatred of blacks is a problem in the South (US)

P2 Steve lives in the South

C Steve hates blacks.

The stupid of these people. I sometimes wonder if any these types ever stop to think about what they're going to say/write before they do.

It will only convince those who are fooled by TAG arguments that some Christian apologists love. Just more evidence to me these people are not critical thinkers. I would be embarrassed posting that in a skeptical community.

[MadGav]

[youtube]AiCF1QdyxhM[/youtube]

[AnotherLurkerMkII]

Poor Setar, life has been tough for him. Maybe he could re-train as a plumber and out-earn PZ.

When I read Setar I'm embarrassed to admit I probably thought similarly at around age thirteen. I don't know how old Setar is but he's clearly, chronologically, an adult. What's astonishing, and rather frightening is that people with that level of immaturity are running around loose with full adult rights and a pathological aversion to responsibility of any kind.
Roth throws a screaming tantrum at a T-Shirt and runs home crying. Hensley fakes a nervous breakdown because of internet push-back and retires (again) to bed while taking a momentary break from self-inflicted social media drama to download disability application forms. Setar demands more handouts because, well, I don't know. College was too hard?
How did we get this far as a species?

Setar's theme song:

[youtube]r0U0AlLVqpk[/youtube]

[decius]

[quote="Cunning Punt"
She's not extrapolating from a group to a specific individual. She's talking about a large group of people as a subset of an even larger group. So if you accept premises one and two, you have to accept the conclusion. The devil as always is in the details[/quote]

The fallacy lies with omitting that the subset is self-selected.

In the specific case, the most important source of sexism and gender discrimination to society is organised religion, which is also virtually absent in the movement.

[Zenspace]

PZ Myers on the whole Amy Roth/Harriet Hall thing:

Harriet Hall and Amy Roth have reconciled. I’m pleased to hear it; I wasn’t worried about Amy, but Hall was going to hit mantle at the rate she was digging. It is a great relief that she stopped, looked around, and considered her situation thoughtfully, and then responded well.

For fuck's sake. Can't PZ Myers be gracious about anything? I think he's jealous because he realizes he's not 1/4 of the woman Harriet Hall is.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... lent-news/

I know Hall probably realized she had nothing to apologize for and just apologized to get over that hurdle and try to build meaningful dialogue in the future, because that's the kind of class act she is. But PZ just confirmed that was a mistake with that drivel. He just turned Hall's gracious act into a complete win for "his side" and a "lucky for Hall she did that" for her. He just fucked her into the ground with that shitty statement. It's a mistake to give these people the benefit of the doubt, because they're only concerned with "winning". They'll turn everything, even classy moves by the other side, into a weapon they can use against them.

And there you go. Pretty much says it all. :clap:

Back 'in country' and trying to catch up after no Internet for a week. Bunch of prolific, misogynist bastids, aren't you? No way I can catch up, so I'll just fade back in here...

[Apples]

Misogynistic slymie trolls spreading hate on Twitter:



If the FTBers truly think they are disliked by a small or marginal group of people, they are delusional.

[Scented Nectar]

PZ's 'I do not think of Abbie' sthick sound eerily familiar to Rebecca Watson saying she does not think of Harriet Hall...and we know in both cases this is false. PZ frequently speaks about the pit and reads his commentariats' posts about it. The pit is no doubt linked to Abbie (in his head) . SN - Where is that optical illusion video :)

It's at

PZ has linked Abbie in his head to all he fears. Is there anyone else about whom he's said something like "if she's going to be there, I'm not going"? Brave, brave Sir Myers. Hahah :D

[cunt]

Poor Setar, life has been tough for him. Maybe he could re-train as a plumber and out-earn PZ.

When I read Setar I'm embarrassed to admit I probably thought similarly at around age thirteen. I don't know how old Setar is but he's clearly, chronologically, an adult. What's astonishing, and rather frightening is that people with that level of immaturity are running around loose with full adult rights and a pathological aversion to responsibility of any kind.
Roth throws a screaming tantrum at a T-Shirt and runs home crying. Hensley fakes a nervous breakdown because of internet push-back and retires (again) to bed while taking a momentary break from self-inflicted social media drama to download disability application forms. Setar demands more handouts because, well, I don't know. College was too hard?
How did we get this far as a species?

Well he complains about how unfair Canada is. I can't shake the idea that in most civilisations throughout history Setar would probably be rotting in a ditch by now.

[Apples]

Well he complains about how unfair Canada is. I can't shake the idea that in most civilisations throughout history Setar would probably be rotting in a ditch by now.

Good fucking point.

[AnotherLurkerMkII]

Poor Setar, life has been tough for him. Maybe he could re-train as a plumber and out-earn PZ.

When I read Setar I'm embarrassed to admit I probably thought similarly at around age thirteen. I don't know how old Setar is but he's clearly, chronologically, an adult. What's astonishing, and rather frightening is that people with that level of immaturity are running around loose with full adult rights and a pathological aversion to responsibility of any kind.
Roth throws a screaming tantrum at a T-Shirt and runs home crying. Hensley fakes a nervous breakdown because of internet push-back and retires (again) to bed while taking a momentary break from self-inflicted social media drama to download disability application forms. Setar demands more handouts because, well, I don't know. College was too hard?
How did we get this far as a species?

Well he complains about how unfair Canada is. I can't shake the idea that in most civilisations throughout history Setar would probably be rotting in a ditch by now.

Send him here to where I live. A month or so of Third World wellfare should make him thank Canada and the Queen for everything he has.

Priviledged fuck. I wish I could live on a nice country like Canada.

[codelette]

Setar gets free healthcare and that still isn't enough for his champagne and caviar tastes. Fuckers like him are the reason I became a libertarian.

[Patrick]

Poster can't geometry (Novella's Blog):

# rafalon 26 Feb 2013 at 1:11 pm

@Orac
Actually, I disagree with the idea of labelling some people as a lost cause.

While a 360 transformation might be unlikely, progress can be made with anyone.

360 would put you right back where you began. I think you mean 180.

Please check your Euclidean privilege.

[John Brown]

Poor Setar, life has been tough for him. Maybe he could re-train as a plumber and out-earn PZ.

When I read Setar I'm embarrassed to admit I probably thought similarly at around age thirteen. I don't know how old Setar is but he's clearly, chronologically, an adult. What's astonishing, and rather frightening is that people with that level of immaturity are running around loose with full adult rights and a pathological aversion to responsibility of any kind.
Roth throws a screaming tantrum at a T-Shirt and runs home crying. Hensley fakes a nervous breakdown because of internet push-back and retires (again) to bed while taking a momentary break from self-inflicted social media drama to download disability application forms. Setar demands more handouts because, well, I don't know. College was too hard?
How did we get this far as a species?

Well he complains about how unfair Canada is. I can't shake the idea that in most civilisations throughout history Setar would probably be rotting in a ditch by now.

Send him here to where I live. A month or so of Third World wellfare should make him thank Canada and the Queen for everything he has.

Priviledged fuck. I wish I could live on a nice country like Canada.

And really, that's the whole point of it. People like Setar are not only the most privileged people on the face of the earth, they are the most privileged in all of human history. He literally does not have to do anything to survive save eating and drinking. Everything else is provided for him. He could easily get "free" housing, transportation, medical care, entertainment, Internet, etc... all because of his various "disabilities."

And yet, he has the temerity to call everyone else who actually fucking provides these things to him (by working and paying taxes), that *they* are the privileged ones. *They* are the oppressors.

A just society is not one which allows its weak and feeble to just die in a ditch, but a just society also does not allow for such obvious freeloading and take abuse for its trouble.

[justinvacula]

Sally Strange drops a non sequitur on Novella's blog:

Premise 1: Sexism is a problem in this society and culture. (Whether you’re in the USA or elsewhere, this is true; there are, as far as I know of, zero countries on the planet where there are no gender inequalities to address, though some countries have fewer and some have more.)

Premise 2: The skeptical community is composed of people who grew up with and exist within this culture and society.

Conclusion: Sexism is a problem in the skeptical community.

P1 Hatred of blacks is a problem in the South (US)

P2 Steve lives in the South

C Steve hates blacks.

Abuse of children is a problem in society. The atheist community is composed of members of society. Therefore abuse of children is a problem in the atheist community.

You heard it here first..