Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Apples]

Q:What's the difference between a wagon-load of sand and a wagon-load of babies?

You can unload the babies with a pitchfork?

[bovarchist]

Q:What's the difference between a wagon-load of sand and a wagon-load of babies?

You can unload the babies with a pitchfork?

No no...cats eat one, and shit on the other.

[jjbinx007]

Ron Lindsay ACTUALLY said:

If the point of your rhetorical question is that some speech can be despicable, absolutely agree
Of course, gov shouldn't prohibit speech just b/c despicable, although private person can condemn it
speech can fall along a spectrum, as you impliedly suggest; "cunt" in most circumstances would be despicable
whereas calling someone "witless wanker" or "demented" is probably just offensive and puerile, dont you agree?

This is taken as:

Amazing.

[Guest]

Of course that’s a reference to PZ’s use of “witless wanker” several years ago; nice touch that Ron, in effect, called PZ “offensive” and “puerile”. I wonder whether PZ had any response to that ….

oh he noticed

but we "others" have approved of it, so lindsay must therefore be wrong and lambasted and fired

out of a cannon

[JackSkeptic]

Ron Lindsay ACTUALLY said:

If the point of your rhetorical question is that some speech can be despicable, absolutely agree
Of course, gov shouldn't prohibit speech just b/c despicable, although private person can condemn it
speech can fall along a spectrum, as you impliedly suggest; "cunt" in most circumstances would be despicable
whereas calling someone "witless wanker" or "demented" is probably just offensive and puerile, dont you agree?

This is taken as:

Amazing.

They have no interest in the truth which is why they lost any credibility with me long ago.

[agarybuseychristmas]

Who is Official SpokesGay, if anyone, on FTB?

[cunt]

Who is Official SpokesGay, if anyone, on FTB?

He's Josh: Official Spokesgay.

[Zenspace]

I don't do Twitter so I don't understand this exchange. Is Peezus just posting the same inane question over and over or is Lindsay just posting multiple responses to the one time posting by Peezus?

I'd have loved it if PZ had replied that 'witless wanker' is fine, as there's no splash damage.

Quite right.

Of course that’s a reference to PZ’s use of “witless wanker” several years ago; nice touch that Ron, in effect, called PZ “offensive” and “puerile”. I wonder whether PZ had any response to that ….

But it would have been nice also if Ron had made reference to the frequent use of “asshole” by PZ, Zvan, and Benson and asked them where that insult might fit on that “spectrum of human dignity”. Not to mention the porcupine “joke”/meme ….

The real context of Lindsay's closing statement above: some posted a comment a couple of days back that PZ was reaching out to someone at CFI (Michael De Dora). Someone else posted a link to a PZ blog post calling De Dora, amongst other things, a 'witless wanker'. A couple of Pitters also commented that PZ wasn't going to have much luck getting support from someone he had so happily burned sometime previously. Lindsay is confirming your predictions were spot on. If the reported attempt by PZ is true, Lindsay just told PZ he is not only aware of the effort, but the attempt to connect with CFI behind Lindsay's back is futile.

We now return you to 'As Machiavelli Turns', already in progress. :mrgreen:

[justinvacula]

Well, there's been concern about my 'self-promotion' on here...and hopefully I have been better about less 'self-promotion.'

This, though, warrants a post I would hope - real-world atheist activism I brought to Wilkes-Barre with help of the Freedom From Religion Foundation:

http://i.imgur.com/2DXcerl.jpg

FFRF press release: http://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item ... ike-prayer

Wilkes-Barre student Justin Vacula, in conjunction with the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has just arranged placement of a colorful banner saying "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" in Public Square in downtown Wilkes-Barre, Penn. The banner is in response to a banner placed by a religious group earlier in May for the National Day of Prayer promoting a scheme to "circle the Square with Prayer."

The banner is on a scaffolding structure owned by the city and made available for banner displays. FFRF, the Madison, Wis.- based association of 19,000 freethinkers (atheists and agnostics), paid $50 for the permit, which was arranged by Vacula. Vacula is one of more than 650 Pennsylvania members of the group, which also functions as a state/church watchdog.

Vacula and FFRF had placed a freethought Winter Solstice message last December to counter various religious displays at Public Square. The banner was partially cut by an identified vandal and was left hanging by the city for some time.

My thoughts: http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... kes-barre/

---

Yay for 'pitters getting off their knees and getting to work! So much for the #ftbullies narrative of no one caring about us and us being 'insignificant.' Well, we knew that was shit anyway...but just more evidence against it. I've been behind in the pit and hope to catch up today! Ron Lindsay continues to be a #bravehero. He is a leader in this community we can stand with - not backing down, challenging dogma, and standing up to #ftbullies fully knowing that it is very risky for not only his job, but his reputation. Ron rules! Please send your support to him and CFI if you have not already done so - emails, FB, tweets, etc. at the very least.

[agarybuseychristmas]

So Dawkins is feeling the wrath of the SJW crew right now, with a special appearance from Aratina Cage:

http://storify.com/jaspergregory/richar ... wimmin-mob

[cunt]

cunt says:

This forum is a fucking shithole, really.

So, what's got your knickers in hissy twist now?

I guess he can't be arsed to argue some point about Silverman that the rest of us morons got wrong, "probably".

If Silverman was really only asking about specific examples like that mspaint job, why did he demand this ridiculous statement from Justin and approve it afterwards?

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... demnation/

You're right about one thing. I couldn't be arsed to slog through twitter piecing together the conversation or to read jadehawks version of events. Oh and boo-hoo he requested a ridiculous statement from wonder-boy. You know Vacula could have just not written that shit if he actually had such a problem with it.

[Beleth]

The blind guy who was ignored by Melody Hensley seems to be a long time friend of Rebecca, probably through knowing her from the UK based pod delusion podcast that involved both of them.

He has written a couple of articles for the skepchicks site, the most recent being just a few weeks ago.

http://skepchick.org/2013/05/guest-post ... hofstader/

He seems none too happy with the other members of the SGU.

When SGU was working to update their website, I wrote to Jay Novella, apparently the brother tasked with the website project, to make a similar offer to him to help with accessibility. Jay sent me an email that said, “Thanks for your offer but accessibility is simply not a priority right now.” It seems that this sort of thinking is probably also why SGU rarely engages in discussions of a broader, more social skepticism topic discussions. Clearly, excepting the wonderful Rebecca Watson, they don’t want to challenge the fundamental belief system held by them and any other group of reasonably well-educated, middle- to upper-middle class, white male Connecticut residents on necessary social policies. I find it ironic that such discriminatory behavior is what defines a “rogue” but, alas, few white men even understand the concept of what a real rogue is, i.e. one who takes action and challenges on issues that are far outside of a safe suburban home.

I remember a similar offer at the SGU forums. It was probably the same guy. I like to think that I gave him less of a brush-off than that -- I told him that I'd look for an official modification to the forum software we use (SMF), and if there were a good one I'd have our technical admin install them, but I was really leery of putting unvetted, unpackaged code into production on our site.

It wasn't the best answer from the viewpoint of being accommodating, but I hope he didn't see it as insulting.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

To me it is more like the idea that every time there is an Islamist terrorist attack we need to ask each individual Muslim to personally disavow themselves from it.

I hate the term but, Overton window's shifted continents. Not only is demanding denouncements holding the community to ransome, why is it even an problem if someone doesn't think that the MS Paint thing being discussed here is a big issue? Did JV send the thing? If not, then his opinion about it is of no importance unless he actually ENCOURAGES it. You can argue with him about whether or not it is a 'crime' , but it is unacceptable to demand that he see it as sinister. I don't see him demanding anybody not be upset about it and he is certainly not stopping anybody from 'fighting' it. It would take powers far beyond those of a motley crew of secularists to make a dent in the problem. All you achieve by making an issue of it is a massive distraction because no troll is going to give a damn about your pronouncements. I wouldn't be surprised if there are a bunch of Xtians laughing their heads off at how they've tied the atheists up in knots.

Silverman's spiel looks a bit like one of those sequences of questions Xtians use which are supposed to lead to a gotcha. There is no tolerance for failure to give the 'correct' answers.

Another question, Silverman. When are the cis white devils allowed to stop shutting up and listening? What if we've read Feminism 101 102 times already, listened to the whines, read the argument from Patriarchy in all of it's forms, listened to the explanations of how we all think and how heartless we are, and still think it's a steaming pile of crap? Are we to permanently shut up and listen? Only Stepford men allowed?

[AndrewV69]

I feel there are some here, that would like us to level up a little. In that regard, I also reject picking on Ophelia Benson or other people just for the sake of it or based on some superficial reason (appearance, gender, or whatever). I also think that this would be consistent what we have been saying all the time.

I definitely get what you're saying, and agree to a point. But it presupposes that the Pit is an organization with actual goals, and not just a place to hang out for people who are sick to death of oversensitive cunts, and just want to throw out the occasional dead-baby joke without being labelled a Suppressive Person.

That said, we really need our dead-baby jokes to be better, people.

Q:What's the difference between a wagon-load of sand and a wagon-load of babies?

Also, how 'bout that I-5, eh?

shitbaby.jpg

(79.56 KiB) Downloaded 305 times

[LMU]

So Dawkins is feeling the wrath of the SJW crew right now, with a special appearance from Aratina Cage:

http://storify.com/jaspergregory/richar ... wimmin-mob

Wow. That seems like a lot of twits (maybe that's just because I don't twitter?). My understanding of racism/sexism is: "Unfair discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race/sex." Therefore it's absolutely possible to be racist/sexist against white people/male people, and I don't see this as a controversial conclusion. RD is correct, and they might as well be harassing him for claiming the sky is blue ("No it's colorless! It only appears blue because blue light scatters more! F****** D*****!").

[AndrewV69]

Q:What's the difference between a wagon-load of sand and a wagon-load of babies?

You can unload the babies with a pitchfork?

No no...cats eat one, and shit on the other.

babyonboard.jpg

(25.99 KiB) Downloaded 304 times

[LMU]

Well, there's been concern about my 'self-promotion' on here...and hopefully I have been better about less 'self-promotion.'

This, though, warrants a post I would hope - real-world atheist activism I brought to Wilkes-Barre with help of the Freedom From Religion Foundation:

http://i.imgur.com/2DXcerl.jpg

FFRF press release: http://ffrf.org/news/news-releases/item ... ike-prayer

Wilkes-Barre student Justin Vacula, in conjunction with the Freedom From Religion Foundation, has just arranged placement of a colorful banner saying "Nothing Fails Like Prayer" in Public Square in downtown Wilkes-Barre, Penn. The banner is in response to a banner placed by a religious group earlier in May for the National Day of Prayer promoting a scheme to "circle the Square with Prayer."

The banner is on a scaffolding structure owned by the city and made available for banner displays. FFRF, the Madison, Wis.- based association of 19,000 freethinkers (atheists and agnostics), paid $50 for the permit, which was arranged by Vacula. Vacula is one of more than 650 Pennsylvania members of the group, which also functions as a state/church watchdog.

Vacula and FFRF had placed a freethought Winter Solstice message last December to counter various religious displays at Public Square. The banner was partially cut by an identified vandal and was left hanging by the city for some time.

My thoughts: http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... kes-barre/

---

Yay for 'pitters getting off their knees and getting to work! So much for the #ftbullies narrative of no one caring about us and us being 'insignificant.' Well, we knew that was shit anyway...but just more evidence against it. I've been behind in the pit and hope to catch up today! Ron Lindsay continues to be a #bravehero. He is a leader in this community we can stand with - not backing down, challenging dogma, and standing up to #ftbullies fully knowing that it is very risky for not only his job, but his reputation. Ron rules! Please send your support to him and CFI if you have not already done so - emails, FB, tweets, etc. at the very least.

Thank JV! It's good that people are demonstrating for atheism even while "deep rifts" continue.

[cunt]

He <elevatorgate> chooses to make himself more of a target for criticism (from either "side") by doing what he does. Just because he is against the baboons does not make him exempt from criticism or eye-rolling from the people here. Your "stop shitting on him" and "he deserves more credit [from pitters]" doesn't work here.

Yes. And? You weenies that comment from the sidelines should be grateful he draws fire.

What a bunch of vanilla chickenshits you all are when you boil it down.

And who said he doesn't deserve criticism? The real critique is between doing nothing and something. This is why EG earns a bit of respect. And the spitgobs from the z-seats earn none.

How's your own twitter campaign going franc? The one where you call everyone a toilet-slave 10 times a day and link ool0n to that chester and spike vid every so often. Is he going to crack any day now? Are you still under the delusion that everyone else hasn't blocked you months ago?

[Apples]

So Dawkins is feeling the wrath of the SJW crew right now, with a special appearance from Aratina Cage:

http://storify.com/jaspergregory/richar ... wimmin-mob

Dawkins makes the good point in that exchange that SJWs can try to justify racism/sexism directed against white men, but that it's pure bullshit nonsense to pretend that it is ontologically impossible because some professor decreed it so.

Barney Hall retorts: "wow Richard Dawkins nice one for ripping into Sociology as a subject! You clearly know what you are talking about!...

to which Dawkins replies: "Some of my best friends are privileged sociologists." :dance:

[Aneris]

By the way. The diversity... stunning.

Pharyngula "FTBullies" (selftitled)
Pharyngula "Horde"

[agarybuseychristmas]

So Dawkins is feeling the wrath of the SJW crew right now, with a special appearance from Aratina Cage:

http://storify.com/jaspergregory/richar ... wimmin-mob

Wow. That seems like a lot of twits (maybe that's just because I don't twitter?). My understanding of racism/sexism is: "Unfair discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race/sex." Therefore it's absolutely possible to be racist/sexist against white people/male people, and I don't see this as a controversial conclusion. RD is correct, and they might as well be harassing him for claiming the sky is blue ("No it's colorless! It only appears blue because blue light scatters more! F****** D*****!").

SJW and critical theorists in general use a definition of racism popularized by Judith H. Katz in White Awareness: Handbook for Anti-Racism Training wherein the only type of racism that exists is 'institutional racism', otherwise known by this formula:

Power + racial prejudice = racism

In essence, only whites can be racist. This allows them to skew discourse away from areas that prove that their ideology isn't all encompassing.

[nippletwister]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

Yup. But there is also this:

IMO, the demand for denouncement is to (partially) shut up his own base so in case he talks to JV, they don't turn on him. It's a typical political maneuver.

I think we should be careful about jumping on Silverman's shit for this stunt. Hell, we should be careful about jumping on anyone's shit for any single incident unless you want to pick up your baboon feces and join their crowd.

Some people may be pissed that Silverman asked Justin to denounce all sorts of practices that Justin isn't involved in. But on the flip side, Silverman may also be trying to give Justin some (what he considers) good advice on how to navigate these politics. When he said "@justinvacula can't get into this now. One final word. If you can't bring yourself to fight shit, you will be seen as approving it." That is probably exactly why Silverman jumped on this bandwagon. Silverman is in a political position & this is how he thinks the best way of dealing with it is for himself.

I am trying to recall the last few hostile interviews with Silverman, but he and atheists get accused of all sorts of shit. If I am not mistaken, Silverman's response tactic is to loudly denounce approval for all such activities that he & atheists are accused of. For at least as hostile interviews go, that kind of takes the wind out of their sails for continuing that tactic for the duration of the interview.

I don't know exactly how Silverman stands on these issues, but if he is willing to do an interview with Justin, I suspect he at least understands both sides of the coin. Given the baboon's reaction to the upcoming interview, I hope Silverman has not made a costly mistake of getting involved, as with them, you just can't get involved, you have to be pure in your involvement.

Damn good points, though I've been a fan of Silverman's work for a while and I admit I want to give him credit. It is his normal tactic the he uses himself, it just seemed out of place for him to be nearly demanding it of others. But then, he did agree to do the show, and hasn't pulled any other weaselly stuff.

Anyway, I thought the hashtag was pretty funny, regardless of Silverman's intention. It may have been unnecessary if it was just a political move from Silverman, attempting to help Justin, but it's good to show people that obvious manipulation is obvious(and generally obnoxious) to those who pay attention, IMO.

[Dick Strawkins]

So Dawkins is feeling the wrath of the SJW crew right now, with a special appearance from Aratina Cage:

http://storify.com/jaspergregory/richar ... wimmin-mob

Wow. That seems like a lot of twits (maybe that's just because I don't twitter?). My understanding of racism/sexism is: "Unfair discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race/sex." Therefore it's absolutely possible to be racist/sexist against white people/male people, and I don't see this as a controversial conclusion. RD is correct, and they might as well be harassing him for claiming the sky is blue ("No it's colorless! It only appears blue because blue light scatters more! F****** D*****!").

Rather typical SJW cluelessness.
Do they seriously think that white people are always the group with power?
I've experienced racism in the middle east and in Japan from locals.
It wouldn't compare with the racism suffered by other groups but the standard definition of 'prejudice of those with power' certainly applies.

The Dawkins attacks seem to be a mix of SJWs and religious bigots who hate atheists, but all of them are using Dawkins popularity to give traction to their tweets.

[Apples]

SJW and critical theorists in general use a definition of racism popularized by Judith H. Katz in White Awareness: Handbook for Anti-Racism Training wherein the only type of racism that exists is 'institutional racism', otherwise known by this formula:

Power + racial prejudice = racism

In essence, only whites can be racist. This allows them to skew discourse away from areas that prove that their ideology isn't all encompassing.

The last "critical theory" I tried to read was The Alchemy of Race and Rights by Patricia Williams. Pure fucking gibberish wankery.

[agarybuseychristmas]

SJW and critical theorists in general use a definition of racism popularized by Judith H. Katz in White Awareness: Handbook for Anti-Racism Training wherein the only type of racism that exists is 'institutional racism', otherwise known by this formula:

Power + racial prejudice = racism

In essence, only whites can be racist. This allows them to skew discourse away from areas that prove that their ideology isn't all encompassing.

The last "critical theory" I tried to read was The Alchemy of Race and Rights by Patricia Williams. Pure fucking gibberish wankery.

Critical theorists and SJWs in general really and truly believe they have cracked the code for all of human relations via conflict theory. The hilarity of it is that what they've done with Marx's theories is pretty much a parallel to Social Darwinism.

[justinvacula]

http://matthewf.net/2013/05/23/episode- ... ke-ludwig/

I didn't listen yet. I'm too busy with other things.

Coming up on today’s show, we Amanda Marcotte back on the show to discuss Ronald Lindsay’s condescending opening lecture at the Women In Secularism conference, as well as the positive developments that came after it.

Hopefully pitters can make it through the :hankey:

[Gumby]

He <elevatorgate> chooses to make himself more of a target for criticism (from either "side") by doing what he does. Just because he is against the baboons does not make him exempt from criticism or eye-rolling from the people here. Your "stop shitting on him" and "he deserves more credit [from pitters]" doesn't work here.

Yes. And? You weenies that comment from the sidelines should be grateful he draws fire.

What a bunch of vanilla chickenshits you all are when you boil it down.

And who said he doesn't deserve criticism? The real critique is between doing nothing and something. This is why EG earns a bit of respect. And the spitgobs from the z-seats earn none.

Why should anyone be grateful that the twerp "draws fire"? How does that affect anyone here? Do you think that, heaven forbid, the FtBers would, like, type mean stuff about us more often if it weren't for EG?

Being an hyperactive obsessive immature twit with a Storify addiction does not automatically earn respect. The "spitgobs from the z-seats", who I am guessing you mean everyone here but yourself and a couple of your pals, have made this place into much more of a force than your #bravehero EG ever did by spastically gluing Storify stories together. So fuck you very much, you holier-than thou perpetually angry little wanker, I'm not buying your line of preposterous laughable bullshit.

[Gumby]

I hereby denounce the hate directed at Clarence's man boobs. Flaunt what God gave you, Clarence.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8gkj ... o1_400.gif

[Gumby]

http://matthewf.net/2013/05/23/episode- ... ke-ludwig/

I didn't listen yet. I'm too busy with other things.

Coming up on today’s show, we Amanda Marcotte back on the show to discuss Ronald Lindsay’s condescending opening lecture at the Women In Secularism conference, as well as the positive developments that came after it.

Hopefully pitters can make it through the :hankey:

This whole Lindsay kerfluffle is the biggest quote mine I've seen since I stopped debating creationists a couple of years back.

[Gumby]

Being an hyperactive obsessive immature twit with a Storify addiction does not automatically earn respect. The "spitgobs from the z-seats", who I am guessing you mean everyone here but yourself and a couple of your pals, have made this place into much more of a force than your #bravehero EG ever did by spastically gluing Storify stories together. So fuck you very much, you holier-than thou perpetually angry little wanker, I'm not buying your line of preposterous laughable bullshit.

I HEART YOU FRANC!!!

[nippletwister]

Doesn't seem to me like the guy's on our side. It certainly doesn't provide any help for Lindsay.

I don't know why this guy needs to be on anyone's side. He has a set of issues, and at least he is clear about spelling out what they are.

Also, as an aside, I'm not sure the author is entirely consistent about how he wants to be treated. Is he asking to be treated like everybody else because he's just as capable as they are, or is he asking for special help and consideration because he's disabled?

I am going to go with neither. He spells out exactly what is needed and what isn't. I do think it somewhat odd, that he chastises them for explaining the lanyard which he says is obvious, but there are plenty of other scenarios such as the refreshments that are not obvious to everyone else as to what he is aware of or what he is not. For all anyone else may have know, he might have said 'duh, I can smell & hear the coffee.'

On one side, this guy would have been better served if he had piped up earlier in the event about some of the issues he was running into. On the other side, Melody completely failed to take advantage of being forewarned about his needs in that email he sent well in advance. It was also a stupid mistake to not attempt to get the guy a refund for the difference in the early bird special. I understand Melody being in close to an impossible situation of speakers not having power point sides even produced before the event for her to pass along to him. But some speakers probably did have them ready. She just completely dropped the ball and didn't even make an attempt at reasonable accommodation.

If I were Melody, the smart choice for an event small as this, would be to have obtained a volunteer to interact with people who have disabilities to make sure their needs were being met. Volunteers are cheap, as long as you don't need a huge amount of them, and they typically love doing shit like this. Plus the volunteer would get free access to the conference. It would have been the a great easy catch-all to head off disability issues & concerns.

Note to everyone else, learn from other people's mistakes.

Good stuff again.

I work at a community theater with a normal amount of people with various disabilities as patrons, and a very high rate of senior patrons, which vastly increases the number of possible issues at performances. As such, there is a part of my black little heart getting a good chuckle out of this mess. Our volunteer ushers help the visually impaired, we have assisted listening devices, we often have shows with a sign language presenter, we accommodate all kinds of disabilities as best we can.

The only issue we've ever had here because of a disability in 11 years of constant presentations, was one patron who has both a fully paralyzed daughter who uses a HUGE electric wheelchair, and a very old mother, who they bring to every show they attend, sometimes along with several other family members. We have a relatively small theater for the amount of business we do, so in our section for wheelchairs/electric scooters, we can only seat 3-4 people together with the disabled party. Extra family has to sit just a couple of feet to the left, or in the row in front. Apparently, this wasn't good enough, the patron expected to be able to seat 6 or 8 people in the handicapped section, only one of whom was actually handicapped. Almost like he expected us to unbolt chairs from the floor and move them, with no advance notice. Also, his mother wasn't allowed to keep her walker directly in front of her through the whole show, blocking an aisle(fire hazard rules, not our fault). So he called up after a show and gave us hell for things we can't even legally or practically change. I still remember him yelling "so what if there's a fire and my mother's walker isn't right there????? Am I just supposed to leave her???" "No, sir, in that case the usher who is stationed at that door will bring your mother her walker (from 4 feet away) and escort you all out of the building. We plan for these issues".

The sick part was, he was yelling his head off at me....but I could hear his wife screaming fucking bloody murder at him the whole time...I mean, she sounded fucking insane, like somebody was going to get hurt. As much as he pissed me off, I don't think I've ever felt sorrier for another person.

Sorry to go on so long, i just find it hilarious that the social justice peeps dropped the ball on such a basic issue.

[Whig]

Word is WBC tried to protest at the funeral of one of the kids this morning, and theyve been arrested for protesting without a permit.

Of course, protesting WBC is also protesting without a permit, so one of our bailbond place is offering to post $500 bail for anyone else arrested. heh.

Wow, a rare PR win for a bailbond place.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Jesus fucking Christ what has happened to the Pit?
I just sat through a few pages lulzy insults directed at Clarence for having man-tits (and to his favour he took it well) but I didn't see many people denouncing that yet poor, harmless Ophelia, a person who make s a living off dancing in shit and then crying about her smelly feet, gets a daft analogy directed at her and the world is ending.

Stayed clear of the Clarence's tits spat because I have too strong a sense of self-preservation to risk being clocked by a stray swinging handbag. Didn't want the "Yoose think yoose too good fer me, Jimmy" lecture either.

[Trophy]

Dawkins is the witch of the week again:

First, stupid post on shakesblahblah:

Richard Dawkins -- whom many of you know from his Dear Muslima letter wherein he blatantly appropriated the violent oppression of Muslim women in an attempt to silence an American feminist he disagreed with while at the same time making the racist assumption than "Muslim women" and "American women" are mutually exclusive groups -- has done a complete 180 today in announcing on Twitter that he cares about racism and sexism after all...

Apparently, Dawkins has tweeted the following:

"insufferable smug white male making snide comments in loafers." Racism & sexism are fine, so long as they point in the right direction!
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) May 24, 2013

Learn to think clearly and use language precisely. You may JUSTIFY racism & sexism towards white males. But it's still racist & sexist.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) May 24, 2013

So many people incapable of drawing an elementary distinction: between racism and INSTITUTIONAL racism. Probably studied sociology.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) May 24, 2013

OT, but Dawkins is showing that he’s a useless, drama llama, conceited shit again. Must be Friday.

http://www.shakesville.com/2013/05/rich ... tance.html

Aren’t you friends with this weasel, PZ? Any chance you could convince him to shut the fuck up and maybe read a book or two?

PZ later comments but doesn't mention Dawkins at all. Huh.

[Trophy]

P.S: I really didn't mine the Shakesville quote for lolz but I'm sure you are all expert lolminers here at pit and you'll agree that lolz is strong with that post.

[Trophy]

@AndrewV69:

Damn. Thanks for the marriage bandits reference. It's so fucking weird and disgusting all at the same time. But of course, with Islam keeping sexes separate and the girls virgin and naive, it was just a matter time some asshole dudes realized how easy it is to prey on them. Really, fuck PUAs.

[Pitchguest]

So Dawkins is feeling the wrath of the SJW crew right now, with a special appearance from Aratina Cage:

http://storify.com/jaspergregory/richar ... wimmin-mob

Wow. That seems like a lot of twits (maybe that's just because I don't twitter?). My understanding of racism/sexism is: "Unfair discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race/sex." Therefore it's absolutely possible to be racist/sexist against white people/male people, and I don't see this as a controversial conclusion. RD is correct, and they might as well be harassing him for claiming the sky is blue ("No it's colorless! It only appears blue because blue light scatters more! F****** D*****!").

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm]
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Racism with the belief that one "race" is superior to the other is certainly one definition, but not the only one. Which is why I don't use the expression "reverse racism"; I just use "racism". But it seems that many (feminists in particular) have decided that "white" and "male" are the "privileged" in society, and therefore they cannot possibly be victims of racism and/or sexism. Like this (probably middle-class and white) woman informs us:

Of course, Dawkins hasn't said anything of the sort, but misrepresenting or fabricating facts to smear their "opponents" seem par for the course for these people.

[Dick Strawkins]

Aren’t you friends with this weasel, PZ? Any chance you could convince him to shut the fuck up and maybe read a book or two?

PZ later comments but doesn't mention Dawkins at all. Huh.

Of course not, he probably still hopes to get Dawkins to say something nice about Peezus upcoming book.

[Pitchguest]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

[Trophy]

Hahahahahahahahahaha

*applauds* Classic SJW move. I award her 9/10. She loses one point becaues she only mentioned poc and women cause most likely she's an ablist scum.

[Whig]

http://matthewf.net/2013/05/23/episode- ... ke-ludwig/

I didn't listen yet. I'm too busy with other things.

Coming up on today’s show, we Amanda Marcotte back on the show to discuss Ronald Lindsay’s condescending opening lecture at the Women In Secularism conference, as well as the positive developments that came after it.

Hopefully pitters can make it through the :hankey:

Marcotte interview starts at 20 minutes in, doesn't say anything that you couldn't read in the usual blog hit parade. They really make a lot of hay out of the "welcome" bit. They ignored the silencing examples he pointed out. Lindsey made "evidence free accusations" according to her. Lindsey called a "sexist SOB."

[nippletwister]

So Dawkins is feeling the wrath of the SJW crew right now, with a special appearance from Aratina Cage:

http://storify.com/jaspergregory/richar ... wimmin-mob

Wow. That seems like a lot of twits (maybe that's just because I don't twitter?). My understanding of racism/sexism is: "Unfair discrimination or prejudice on the basis of race/sex." Therefore it's absolutely possible to be racist/sexist against white people/male people, and I don't see this as a controversial conclusion. RD is correct, and they might as well be harassing him for claiming the sky is blue ("No it's colorless! It only appears blue because blue light scatters more! F****** D*****!").

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

rac·ism [rey-siz-uhm]
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Racism with the belief that one "race" is superior to the other is certainly one definition, but not the only one. Which is why I don't use the expression "reverse racism"; I just use "racism". But it seems that many (feminists in particular) have decided that "white" and "male" are the "privileged" in society, and therefore they cannot possibly be victims of racism and/or sexism. Like this (probably middle-class and white) woman informs us:

Of course, Dawkins hasn't said anything of the sort, but misrepresenting or fabricating facts to smear their "opponents" seem par for the course for these people.

The whole "only white people can be racist, only men can be sexist" thing is just the purest idiot marxist dogshitn that feeds on misplaced guilt and people wanting to feel all righteous and superior.

Even if one accepts the oversimplified idea that only the "group in power" can be racist/sexist, white men are not in power around the world. Not even in all aspects of the western world. They really need to polish up that old "intersectionality" bit, and maybe realize that things aren't as "black and white" as they like to pretend.

Trivially easy debunking, though it is just an "anecdote" there must be millions like it...I grew up in a small farm town that was roughly half white, half hispanic. Hispanics made up a slightly higher percentage of the very poor, but not by much. Since it was in California, any social justice warrior would of course say that whites were "in power" despite plenty of affluent hispanic business owners and elected officials.

Yet among the lower-middle class and poor, there were quite a few wannabe hispanic gang members, yet no "white power" equivalent. White kids got harassed at the local high school, threatened in public, all because of a few assholes who were inaccurately perceived by some liberals as "disadvantaged". I myself had "stupid white boy" yelled at me for no reason more than once, and was very nearly attacked by a gang of 6 young assholes just for being out at night. If you were a white guy seeking employment, you generally didn't even bother applying to a mexican-owned business, even if you knew how to speak Spanish. There was no reverse equivalent, even the old depression-era honest to god white racists weren't like that, not even the poorest of the poor ones. Even the ones who occasionally complained about "beaners" or "wetbacks" in certain private company still hired hispanics, still worked alongside them, still followed at least the law and common decency in public.

Can someone explain to me my inherent "privilege" here, and let me know what sins of my ancestors I was obviously responsible for? Funniest part was, after getting just one or two generations past the immigration stage, most of the local hispanics, even the poor ones, couldn't stand the gangs, the violence, and the whining and machismo bullshit. Many of them are republicans or moderate democrats now. I guess an SJW would say they just "turned white", 'cause if you don't condone whatever bullshit any supposedly "disadvantaged" asshole wants to pull, you're an "oppressor".

Not "social justice", just idiot marxist dogshit.

[katamari Damassi]

Dawkins is the witch of the week again:

First, stupid post on shakesblahblah:

Richard Dawkins -- whom many of you know from his Dear Muslima letter wherein he blatantly appropriated the violent oppression of Muslim women in an attempt to silence an American feminist he disagreed with while at the same time making the racist assumption than "Muslim women" and "American women" are mutually exclusive groups -- has done a complete 180 today in announcing on Twitter that he cares about racism and sexism after all...

Apparently, Dawkins has tweeted the following:

"insufferable smug white male making snide comments in loafers." Racism & sexism are fine, so long as they point in the right direction!
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) May 24, 2013

Learn to think clearly and use language precisely. You may JUSTIFY racism & sexism towards white males. But it's still racist & sexist.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) May 24, 2013

So many people incapable of drawing an elementary distinction: between racism and INSTITUTIONAL racism. Probably studied sociology.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) May 24, 2013

OT, but Dawkins is showing that he’s a useless, drama llama, conceited shit again. Must be Friday.

http://www.shakesville.com/2013/05/rich ... tance.html

Aren’t you friends with this weasel, PZ? Any chance you could convince him to shut the fuck up and maybe read a book or two?

PZ later comments but doesn't mention Dawkins at all. Huh.

Mardoll is the lunatic who jumped to McEwan's defense when someone criticized her for "chiding" the president. Mardol insisted that "chiding" was a gendered slur.

[nippletwister]

Jesus fucking Christ what has happened to the Pit?
I just sat through a few pages lulzy insults directed at Clarence for having man-tits (and to his favour he took it well) but I didn't see many people denouncing that yet poor, harmless Ophelia, a person who make s a living off dancing in shit and then crying about her smelly feet, gets a daft analogy directed at her and the world is ending.

Stayed clear of the Clarence's tits spat because I have too strong a sense of self-preservation to risk being clocked by a stray swinging handbag. Didn't want the "Yoose think yoose too good fer me, Jimmy" lecture either.

I did make a "bitch-tits" jibe, but it was both sarcastic (I was riffing on Clarence's earlier "bitches" remark) and I later apologized in case it actually bugged him.

But he did still seem a bit "internet aggressive" to me, kind of like people on Fark comment threads. No ill will, either way. I'm a big nobody and I have no opinion on who shows up or leaves.

[justinvacula]

Btw, for those not aware of her, @SecularlyYours looks like someone worth following.

She is #bravehero

http://i.imgur.com/mRFXl7v.jpg

[Aneris]

Ally Fogg expressed he wanted to stay out of the current kerfuffle surrounding Ron Lindsay, but provided a link to an older piece (Jan/13) he wrote for the Guardian.

Check your privilege' isn't a trump card – it's a call for time out [...] There are many philosophical and political problems with privilege theory. [...] As a straight white middle-class male with an interest in gender issues, I am inevitably accused of abuse of privilege and "mansplaining". Sometimes it strikes me as disingenuous, an attempt to close down discussion or restrict the voices in a debate to preferred perspectives. Sometimes it is entirely deserved, and with hindsight I'll agree that yes, I was being a condescending jerk. At other times I will think I've checked my privilege, and I'm sorry but I still don't agree with you.

See what you make of it. It appears to me that Lindsay wasn't far away from these views. I reread his speech again, and it's all there, he pointed out it's a useful concept in some context, that it isn't a trumpcard etc. So again, impression is 99,2% agreement isn't enough —or— hypocrites and liars with an agenda.

[Pitchguest]

Apparently suggesting racism and sexism applies to all ethnicities and both genders is someone 'about to go full MRA'



I'm not an MRA and I'm not a feminist, because both positions to me seem counterproductive if they both truly wish for an egalitarian society. But this is ridiculous. Yes, sure, men may have it slightly easier than women at some point, and yes, "white" people may it slightly easier than "black" or "brown" people, but come the fuck on. It's not as if it's smooth fucking sailing or anything. It's not as if being born "white" or "male" means you'll have it easy from now on. Besides, this attitude is exactly what fosters an "us vs them" feel between us and it's fucking stupid.

Here's my personal feelings on the MRM: fuck Paul Elam. His double-speak is so fucking transparent, it's like he spent his entire life looking into a mirror. AVfM would be better without him. The MRM is obviously not a monolith and obviously not filled with misogynists, but it could do with better leadership and better structure. If it continues to just focus on the ills of feminism (which is clearly ALSO NOT a monolith or in contrast filled with misandrists), it's not going to go anywhere. Feminism has the same problem: although like the MRM it has its different branches, and although its main mission is to focus on equality between the sexes, it somehow manages to focus solely on the ills of men and/or the MRM.

I mean, the MRM had its inception during the height of second-wave feminism during the 70's. In other words, in attempting to garner sympathy and solidarity from the masses, they fucked up. :confusion-shrug:

[justinvacula]

Brave Hero Radio update!

Abbie Smith joins Karla Porter and Justin Vacula Saturday, May 25 at 8PM Eastern!

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bravehero/ ... bbie-smith

[Gumby]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... d18a7f.jpg

[ReneeHendricks]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... d18a7f.jpg

The woman cried? Seriously? How the fuck does Melody deal with every day life?

[Gumby]

The woman cried? Seriously? How the fuck does Melody deal with every day life?

Lots of Kleenex.

[Corylus]

These two, fighting the patriarchy with a lot of reading!
http://i.imgur.com/hCtnncj.png

Then I wish them - especially Melody - a productive time with that.

Heh! Genuinely. :)

I also hope they don't forget to throw in a bit of literature at the same time. This is not only good for reflecting common social and political realities, in both ancient and recent histories, it is also good for upping the reader's general understanding of others.

-=-=-

Gumby, sending your great picture to a wheelchair using friend of mine. She will not know any of the actors in this particular drama, but will be amused that the depiction of an all-too-familiar type.

[Apples]

The woman cried? Seriously? How the fuck does Melody deal with every day life?

http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/wpres ... iption.jpg

[AndrewV69]

I mean, the MRM had its inception during the height of second-wave feminism during the 70's. In other words, in attempting to garner sympathy and solidarity from the masses, they fucked up. :confusion-shrug:

I do not think AVfM is trying for "sympathy and solidarity" at this point. Sometime back Elam said if I remember correctly he was going to Fuck Their Shit Up. Sounds like war to me. I suspect that other aspects of the MRM are going to join in if they have not taken this stance already.

We already know that there are lots of pissed off men out there. What will happen in the next few years? Your guess is a good as mine. But I am not expecting it to be pretty.

[Mykeru]

Ron Lindsay ACTUALLY said:

If the point of your rhetorical question is that some speech can be despicable, absolutely agree
Of course, gov shouldn't prohibit speech just b/c despicable, although private person can condemn it
speech can fall along a spectrum, as you impliedly suggest; "cunt" in most circumstances would be despicable
whereas calling someone "witless wanker" or "demented" is probably just offensive and puerile, dont you agree?

This is taken as:

Amazing.

Josh is a cunt.

[Gumby]

Gumby, sending your great picture to a wheelchair using friend of mine. She will not know any of the actors in this particular drama, but will be amused that the depiction of an all-too-familiar type.

Help yourself! I hope your friend gets a chuckle out of it.

Speaking of "all-too-familiar types", I wonder if Hensley also raised her voice and spoke very slowly when speaking to that blind man at WiS2. :lol:

[Lsuoma]

Ron Lindsay ACTUALLY said:

If the point of your rhetorical question is that some speech can be despicable, absolutely agree
Of course, gov shouldn't prohibit speech just b/c despicable, although private person can condemn it
speech can fall along a spectrum, as you impliedly suggest; "cunt" in most circumstances would be despicable
whereas calling someone "witless wanker" or "demented" is probably just offensive and puerile, dont you agree?

This is taken as:

Amazing.

Josh is a cunt.

MYKERU!!!!!!!

[rayshul]

Anyone who thinks only white people can be racist has never hung around with asshole upper class Africans or Asians. The real difference is that the non-whites don't even try to hide their racism because they assume white people are too stupid to understand it.



I think Elevatorgate is a sweet kid with a dream of being a journalist. He gets excited, yes, but he learns things, and he's clearly pretty smart for his age.

[rayshul]

I don't think anything the blind dude was talking about in his post was out there for even a small conference. Usually though in my experience (and certainly in workplaces I've been in) there is basic training in the reception/conference planning areas in how to help people with disabilities.

Then again I'm not sure how common that is in America - my most lingering impression of the country when I was there is that there weren't basic shit on the streets for blind people - like traffic crossings that made noises, and raised curbs. Freaked me right the fuck out.

[LMU]

--snipped--

--snipped--
So many people incapable of drawing an elementary distinction: between racism and INSTITUTIONAL racism. Probably studied sociology.
— Richard Dawkins (@RichardDawkins) May 24, 2013

--snipped--

:lol: RD makes me smile.

I forget where I saw the link (I apologize if it was here) but this is an article about women being sexist against men.

But sexism refers simply to unequal treatment in relation to a person's gender.

is the concept of sexism used, but they also addressed the "plus power" version by noticing that many women *do* have power, as supervisors and bosses of men, so their prejudice still qualifies as sexism in those cases.