Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[JackSkeptic]

There's not going to be any "burying of the hatchet" and people who think there is are severely fucking deluded. If they're not outright lying about their intentions. Gumby was basically correct, if you're paying for Vacula to go to this thing, you're doing so because you hope he'll piss the speakers off by his presence.

Don't pretend otherwise, it's transparent as fuck.

If JV goes to the conference in Ireland, then he's giving the people there an opportunity. They can show their quality by treating him as an adversary or as a fellow atheist and skeptic. It's a nonviolent demonstration, just like hanging a banner is.

I think it is better he goes to AI than WIS. Not all of the AI organisers are extremists, far from it. So JV will be a good counter to them. Nugent may do an interview for instance.

[Lsuoma]

From the Ophie thread:

The leadership of the Dublin conference think it’s a case of “both sides” – in fact some of them think our harassers are more right than we are.

If that’s the case, I think you and other feminists should withdraw as speakers.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-554253
http://www.freezepage.com/1369677039TFBHRBXXIK

There's as much chance of a dinosaur flying out of my arse than any of the freeloaders jumping off the gravy train...

[bovarchist]

Some may. That wasn't my purpose in donating. I wouldn't suggest she change her plans to attend but that's really up to her.

I do hope she is able somehow to get some perspective on all of this. She seems to be slipping farther & farther into a fixed delusion. :(

What was your purpose in donating? It wasn't annoying people. So obviously it was something else. Maybe you're hoping there's going to be a teary reconciliation in the same hotel that kicked this shit off? People are going to see Justin and wonder to themselves.... he's a nice young man, should I be reading FTB?

That's exactly it. I applaud your honesty and insight.

Plus JV looks as though he desperately needs to get laid, so some Elevator Action might be in order...

I assume you mean sex in an elevator, and not the classic arcade game?

[Apples]

aaaand A+ admin Hyperdeath's got Justin's number. I'd be willing to bet some baboons will contact his school.

Vacula is a student in mental health counselling. That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. What will happen if a patient annoys him? Will he post their personal details on the slymepit?

[Aneris]

Whether someone is an attention whore or not doesn't really matter. To some degree every public person is, or must be, to stay afloat and I don't see a problem with it. It is also none of your (or my) business what Justin does with the money he personally raises, for the purposes he said it would be used. I'm not too happy with the AVfM connection but fair is fair.

What is the "AVfM connection" and why should you care? I have an "AVfM connection" too. Are you going to claim the SPLC says it's a hate site?

No, I don't. I knew nothing about them to begin with, but since they are frequently mentioned, I read some material. First, I consider it dangerous to make crass jokes too close to home. If you want to make a point on faking statistics with the topic that "women enjoy being raped" then do it in fucking kind of way that it is really, absolutely obvious to about everyone that it is fake. Part of humor is exaggeration, but when politicians seriously talk about "legitimate rape", that's irresponsible to say the least. There is nothing to argue about, since humor also has the function to "test the waters" how far you can go. Second, I don't see why they have to go against feminists and apparently even name their enemies. That's tribalist and idiotic. Third, I don't like that they enter the skeptic/atheist community battlefield from the other side. Their issues have nothing to do atheism and skepticism, even less than feminism. The mainstream religions (monotheisms) are misogynist and often keep women as sub-humans. That's why I see some legitimate overlap between feminism and atheism. You can argue that men are pressured in certain roles as well, but come on, guys don't have to endure ultra crap like purity balls or spend their lives as shrouded sex slave breeding machine.

[Gumby]

Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.

Oh oh, tone troll!

As fast as were getting people were also losing them. I have no interest at all in stupid internal internet feuds that keep repeating themselves like a stuck record. We should be attacking those causing real damage not those who are actively doing something to try and help even if their tactics are sometimes misguided and self promotional.

Sorry, but this is a place for people to express their opinions. Trying to suppress opinions because they might not boost the Pit's ranks or not give the appearance of a united front (which is the impression I'm getting from your words, whatever your intent) is what the baboons do. I don't give two shits about how many people register for this place, what I care about is the people who contribute here - which they do largely because this is not a place where certain topics are deemed "inappropriate" by people such as yourself. Now, if this was one of those miles-long heated arguments about the middle east that we've had in the past, I would tend to agree that such discussions should at least be moved to a separate thread, because such discussions are completely irrelevant to the PToS. However, Vacula's proposed trip is a completely legitimate subject for discussion and criticism on PToS; this is not a "stupid internet feud". Nor is it "spamming the board" as you said in your previous post.

[Tony Parsehole]

I like Justin too. I just can't work out whether his brass neck is endearing or cringeworthy.

Is part of your sig from The Vibrating Bum-Faced Goats? Takes me back a bit...

VBFGs are OK if you like modern. My favourite character was Paul Whicker, the Tall Vicar.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/4/4149893_9d04c14b11.jpg

I also noticed when browsing for that image that Viz used to feature Stephalump (or is it Feefles?)

http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu- ... 148963.jpg

Never let it be said that I'd pass up the opportunity to shamelessly repost some Viz:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BB7R-5oCEAAHl9q.jpg

Paul Whicker had an appearance in the latest issue BTW giving a service at Maggi Thatchers funeral.

[Skep tickle]

Some may. That wasn't my purpose in donating. I wouldn't suggest she change her plans to attend but that's really up to her.

I do hope she is able somehow to get some perspective on all of this. She seems to be slipping farther & farther into a fixed delusion. :(

What was your purpose in donating? It wasn't annoying people. So obviously it was something else. Maybe you're hoping there's going to be a teary reconciliation in the same hotel that kicked this shit off? People are going to see Justin and wonder to themselves.... he's a nice young man, should I be reading FTB?

See Mykeru's comments, with which I wholeheartedly agree, and also mine, here: viewtopic.php?p=93413#p93413

I choose my donations according to certain criteria, ever since a clarifying exercise on a Christian-atheist discussion board ~10 yrs ago that really helped me elucidate my priorities. (Beyond the first round, in which we clarified who felt prayer was a useful intervention & who didn't.) Most of my donations go to work in the developing world, particularly toward a couple of specific organizations whose work targets preventable health-related deaths and suffering. (Health-related as opposed to, say, violence-related deaths and suffering.)

I donated to the Red Cross after the OK tornado. I didn't donate to the charitable drive specifically for Ms. Vitsmun, though I applaud her comments to Blitzer and understand she & her family & community have a long hard road ahead to rebuild their lives. There are a couple of reasons I chose not to donate to an individual in this case. One that I haven't heard mentioned by anyone else yet is that it seems possible that FEMA and/or any homeowners insurance co might be less inclined to help her family given the $$ donated (over $80K last I looked). Another is that I presume she will have to pay taxes on it come spring 2014, and (some may see this as related) that she might be targeted by people seeking a cut for themselves.

Re Justin & Dublin: I donated to support this young Teflon-coated Energizer-bunny of atheism activism, to broaden his experiences, help expose him to some of the hopefully higher-level discussions in atheism & church-state separation, perhaps allow him to meet more of the movers & shakers with whom he might not otherwise come face to face, perhaps allow him to add a voice IMO more reasonable than PZ to the work that this conference plans to do (this international declaration.

In other news, does Ms. Benson realize that Michael Shermer is one of the speakers at this conference? Or did Shermer fall off of her "harassers" list? I have some vague recollection of detente, but need Dick Strawkins' amazing knowledge of everything that has ever happened online to help fill in the blanks. :)

[DW Adams]

Where is the link showing the quote from SPLC saying that AVfM isn't a "hate site", but they're watching it?

[Gumby]

#VaculaMustDenounce people who don't donate to victims of every natural disaster ever

What a wanker! Complete and utter wanker...

"Oh, you don't self-describe as a gender feminist? Glad to see you're a woman-hating misogynist."

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Cunt may be a cunt, but the cunt is right.

I'm lovely in real life. Phil will discover this soon, possibly in mid-july?

Would be lovely to have you around.

And no, I'm not a serial killer praying on internet people.

[Gumby]

There you go, $1700 for Justin to get a passport, some of his money converted and presumably eat only swans neck in Ireland for 3 days. Maybe a new mic for his laptop. Trophy said it best, if you're donating to this you are a big sucker.

Please. Everyone knows the bar tab is the most expensive part of any conference.

Not for Rebecca Watson. I doubt if she ever pays for a drink.

[ReneeHendricks]

I'll be donating to the fund to get Justin to that conference. Why? Not because I give a flying fuck that Ophie is terrified of her own fucking shadow. Not because I give a single shit that some FfTBers are losing their minds over the fact that a man who isn't a woman-terrified, slobbering sycophant of a "feminist" is going to "their" conferences. It's because I can't afford to go to these conferences and I truly wish I could. So, since I can't go, I'd like to get real-time news and feedback from someone who isn't going to shove a "I am woman, hear me roar!" piece of crappy propaganda into my face or try to sell me some shitty plaster necklace that my kids were capable of creating when they were two years old.

Like Justin Vacula or not, he relays what's going on with no bullshit and no feminist crap stinking it all up.

[Mykeru]

Some may. That wasn't my purpose in donating. I wouldn't suggest she change her plans to attend but that's really up to her.

I do hope she is able somehow to get some perspective on all of this. She seems to be slipping farther & farther into a fixed delusion. :(

What was your purpose in donating? It wasn't annoying people. So obviously it was something else. Maybe you're hoping there's going to be a teary reconciliation in the same hotel that kicked this shit off? People are going to see Justin and wonder to themselves.... he's a nice young man, should I be reading FTB?

That's exactly it. I applaud your honesty and insight.

You're still just whining that I didn't respect your strange arguments to what you feel is the appropriate degree.

You are right, of course.

[TedDahlberg]

Cunt may be a cunt, but the cunt is right.

I'm lovely in real life. Phil will discover this soon, possibly in mid-july?

Would be lovely to have you around.

And no, I'm not a serial killer praying on internet people.

How about a praying mantis shrimp?

[EdwardGemmer]

I'll be glad if Vacula can go. He killed it last time and does a good job saying what's going on. I may donate but I'm also on a "send myself to Las Vegas to get married" for the same time.

[JackSkeptic]

Guys get over yourselves. If you do not like what Justin is doing maybe PM it? Or just say it once and be done with it. You're spamming the forum with your bile and it gets really boring. It makes us look like clowns.

Oh oh, tone troll!

As fast as were getting people were also losing them. I have no interest at all in stupid internal internet feuds that keep repeating themselves like a stuck record. We should be attacking those causing real damage not those who are actively doing something to try and help even if their tactics are sometimes misguided and self promotional.

Sorry, but this is a place for people to express their opinions. Trying to suppress opinions because they might not boost the Pit's ranks or not give the appearance of a united front (which is the impression I'm getting from your words, whatever your intent) is what the baboons do. I don't give two shits about how many people register for this place, what I care about is the people who contribute here - which they do largely because this is not a place where certain topics are deemed "inappropriate" by people such as yourself. Now, if this was one of those miles-long heated arguments about the middle east that we've had in the past, I would tend to agree that such discussions should at least be moved to a separate thread, because such discussions are completely irrelevant to the PToS. However, Vacula's proposed trip is a completely legitimate subject for discussion and criticism on PToS; this is not a "stupid internet feud". Nor is it "spamming the board" as you said in your previous post.

I'm giving my opinion, if you don't like it then tough luck. What you do here is up to you but I can also respond to that.

[Mykeru]

Whether someone is an attention whore or not doesn't really matter. To some degree every public person is, or must be, to stay afloat and I don't see a problem with it. It is also none of your (or my) business what Justin does with the money he personally raises, for the purposes he said it would be used. I'm not too happy with the AVfM connection but fair is fair.

What is the "AVfM connection" and why should you care? I have an "AVfM connection" too. Are you going to claim the SPLC says it's a hate site?

No, I don't. I knew nothing about them to begin with, but since they are frequently mentioned, I read some material. First, I consider it dangerous to make crass jokes too close to home. If you want to make a point on faking statistics with the topic that "women enjoy being raped" then do it in fucking kind of way that it is really, absolutely obvious to about everyone that it is fake. Part of humor is exaggeration, but when politicians seriously talk about "legitimate rape", that's irresponsible to say the least. There is nothing to argue about, since humor also has the function to "test the waters" how far you can go. Second, I don't see why they have to go against feminists and apparently even name their enemies. That's tribalist and idiotic. Third, I don't like that they enter the skeptic/atheist community battlefield from the other side. Their issues have nothing to do atheism and skepticism, even less than feminism. The mainstream religions (monotheisms) are misogynist and often keep women as sub-humans. That's why I see some legitimate overlap between feminism and atheism. You can argue that men are pressured in certain roles as well, but come on, guys don't have to endure ultra crap like purity balls or spend their lives as shrouded sex slave breeding machine.

There's a kind of a wall of text there, but I have yet to see parody/sarcasm that was so obvious that either dumb people didn't get it or dishonest people pretended they didn't get it. If you have guidelines on how to do satire so obviously that everyone gets it, I'd love to see it.

The "name their enemies" is reference to what? The "Featured Offenders"? Those were either public figures or, in the case of the people violently protesting and harassing people at the University of Toronto, people who were acting in public to squash other people's rights. You want to avoid being "targeted"? Then don't be a public figure or public bully.

There's no overlap between atheism and anything else. Atheism isn't an ideology, or a world view. There's nothing to overlap.

Guys don't have to live their lives as "sex shrouded breeding machines", but have you noticed how poor or working men, especially men outside of the Western White Collar bubble, live? Probably not. Oh, you will pay lip service, but those guys are probably invisible to you unless they are perceived as a threat.

[Mykeru]

In other news, does Ms. Benson realize that Michael Shermer is one of the speakers at this conference? Or did Shermer fall off of her "harassers" list? I have some vague recollection of detente, but need Dick Strawkins' amazing knowledge of everything that has ever happened online to help fill in the blanks. :)

Ask Cunt. He's so omniscient that he can do an organizational chart of the individual E.Coli bacteria in your gut.

[Gumby]

Ophelia Benson the moment she learned Justin Vacula was going to WIS in Dublin:

http://goo.gl/uwzk2

Anyone does a good Downfall of Feefles, I'll give $75 to a charity of their choice.

Here's a link for doing your own Downfall captions -- looks like all you need is a youtube account to upload it to.

http://downfall.jfedor.org/

If I get bored by Cunt. I'm on it.

I'm on it.

I just did one but it's still processing. Yours will be funnier than mine no doubt.

[Dick Strawkins]

In other news, does Ms. Benson realize that Michael Shermer is one of the speakers at this conference? Or did Shermer fall off of her "harassers" list? I have some vague recollection of detente, but need Dick Strawkins' amazing knowledge of everything that has ever happened online to help fill in the blanks. :)

Shermer?

Are you sure?
I think you're mixing him up with Dan Barker.

http://i.imgur.com/joUb5iL.jpg

BTW, why is Justin already on the speaker picture list? ;)

[Dick Strawkins]

Ophelia Benson the moment she learned Justin Vacula was going to WIS in Dublin:

http://goo.gl/uwzk2

Anyone does a good Downfall of Feefles, I'll give $75 to a charity of their choice.

Here's a link for doing your own Downfall captions -- looks like all you need is a youtube account to upload it to.

http://downfall.jfedor.org/

If I get bored by Cunt. I'm on it.

I'm on it.

I just did one but it's still processing. Yours will be funnier than mine no doubt.

The least funny downfalls I've ever seen were done by Greg Laden!
He has a couple of painfully unhumorous attempts on his youtube channel.

[Skep tickle]

In other news, does Ms. Benson realize that Michael Shermer is one of the speakers at this conference? Or did Shermer fall off of her "harassers" list? I have some vague recollection of detente, but need Dick Strawkins' amazing knowledge of everything that has ever happened online to help fill in the blanks. :)

Shermer?

Are you sure?
I think you're mixing him up with Dan Barker.

http://i.imgur.com/joUb5iL.jpg

BTW, why is Justin already on the speaker picture list? ;)

D'Oh! You're right. Ah well, white men, all interchangeable amirite? ;)

[Buttercup]

More comments added:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/friends ... 110204276/


http://i.imgur.com/cBQS6h7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YZERbIn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ziuDg7o.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xMUp0oh.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GvQN8C5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3m4rpjK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cPWglXt.jpg

[Metalogic42]

Wow, I make one comment about Justin and go to bed, when I wake up there's several pages of discussion.

Is there some self promotion in what Justin is doing? Yes. That's how it's done. That's how you raise your profile, that's how you get things done, that's how you potentially displace the usual incestuous group of relentless self-promoters who are not only self-promoting but doing harm to the skeptical movement. If you are not capitalizing on a chance at self-promotion then you are probably like me, which means sadly lacking in the minimal level of ambition to succeed.

My post last night on the subject said this: "Also: wouldn't it be better for your own PR, atheism PR in general, and society, if you were to skip the conference altogether and go help tornado victims instead? " My point isn't merely "Dear Muslima". As Welch has mentioned several times on the pit, the atheism conference circuit is small beans compared to the tech circuit and others. If Justin went to OK (a place that has recently made national news), he could help out those in need while still promoting both himself and atheism, and reach a far larger audience. It's just more bang for his buck in every aspect.

The point that you and Renee (and probably others) make that you would like to go to the conference, and want someone giving accounts of the goings-on without the threat narrative, is a good one, and I even agree. I'd like to go too. But Justin showing up on CNN wearing an "atheists are good people too" T-shirt is IMO just a better option than showing up at a conference most people will never even be aware of.

Stop tearing the man down because he's just not doing what you would do and, on that point, someone remind me what you have done lately.

I at least am not trying to tear him down; I'm giving him something to consider, and he can take it or leave it. But anyway, while I do what I can to promote skepticism and help out those in need when the situation presents itself, I don't have the monetary drawing power that JV has. I'm literally a nobody, and I doubt many people would donate cash for me to do things. I've donated what I can spare to disaster charities in the past, volunteered for various things on the local level, and generally just promoted by example by being a skeptic.

[TheMudbrooker]

Would be lovely to have you around.

And no, I'm not a serial killer praying on internet people.

That's exactly what a serial killer preying on internet peole would say.

[Gumby]

For what it's worth (not much):

[youtube]TP52JPNz2JY[/youtube]

[Steersman]

<snip>
What does she think...that men never face obstacles in pursuing their goals? It's a hard world for everybody, and yes, some may have it easier than others, but if you can't even handle being discouraged by high school boys, how on earth do you expect to ever succeed at anything?

U of T may have lost an engineer, but feminism has gained a martyr.

<snip>
And now I'm trying to recall where it was I saw an article linked - was it here, a while back? - about how women who are strong in math & science tend to have stronger skills in other areas ("verbal" in testing parlance, I think) than men who are strong in math & science; the women therefore have a broader range of options for fields to go into. Women also tend to be more likely to go into professions seen as social and "helping" (not that engineering isn't) - whether that's cultural or biological is another matter. (Cue Steersman citing Pinker?) ....

:-)

Overture, curtains, lights,
This is it, the night of nights
No more rehearsing and nursing a part
We know every part by heart ….

This from Pinker’s The Blank Slate, the on-line chapter 18 on Gender, seems to be somewhat along the line you were suggesting:

So men are not from Mars, nor are women from Venus. Men and women are from Africa, the cradle of our evolution, where they evolved together as a single species. Men and women have all the same genes except for a handful on the Y chromosome, and their brains are so similar that it takes an eagle-eyed neuroanatomist to find the small differences between them. Their average levels of general intelligence are the same, according to the best psychometric estimates,and they use language and think about the physical and living world in the same general way. They feel the same basic emotions, and both enjoy sex, seek intelligent and kind marriage partners, get jealous, make sacrifices for their children, compete for status and mates, and sometimes commit aggression in pursuit of their interests.

But of course the minds of men and women are not identical, and recent reviews of sex differences have converged on some reliable differences. Sometimes the differences are large, with only slight overlap in the bell curves. ….

With some other traits the differences are small on average but can be large at the extremes. That happens for two reasons. When two bell curves partly overlap, the farther out along the tail you go, the larger the discrepancies between the groups. For example, men on average are taller than women, and the discrepancy is greater for more extreme values. At a height of five foot ten, men outnumber women by a ratio of thirty to one; at a height of six feet, men outnumber women by a ratio of two thousand to one. ….

With still other traits, the average values for the two sexes differ by smaller amounts and in different directions for different traits. Though men, on average, are better at mentally rotating objects and maps, women are better at remembering landmarks and the positions of objects. Men are better throwers; women are more dexterous. Men are better at solving mathematical word problems, women at mathematical calculation. Women are more sensitive to sounds and smells, have better depth perception, match shapes faster, and are much better at reading facial expressions and body language. Women are better spellers, retrieve words more fluently, and have a better memory for verbal material. ….

So, given two candidates for a STEM type job, a woman and a man, who are evenly matched and identical otherwise, if the job entails “mathematical calculation” and communicating those results to a larger community then the woman is likely to be the better bet: gender profiling (aka “sexism”) that benefits the female sex more than the male.

Although something somewhat problematic to note: while he takes some pains to indicate that the statistics apply to populations and segments thereof – as in the comparisons on heights, I think he drops the ball in using language in other areas where that perspective is obscured by vague colloquialisms – as in “men are better throwers; women are more dexterous”. It is not that men as a class are better than women as a class at throwing – i.e., the implication that all men are better throwers than all women – but that there are more men than women who meet or exceed some relatively arbitrary standard of throwing, for examples, distance and accuracy. That difference in interpretation tends, I think, to bedevil all sorts of related discussions and issues.

And, as a somewhat “meta” comment relative to Pinker’s writings in general and to your “cueing”, I certainly think that his observations and perspectives have a great amount of validity and utility, particularly in the context of recent discussions surrounding the scope and implications of various feminist ideologies. So much so that I’m almost tempted to buy a gross of them and stand on street corners – opposite the JWs (and SJWs) – handing them out for free.

But I’m not so dogmatic about his arguments as to suggest that they are or should be gospel truth. For instance, I think his deprecation of “the ghost in the machine” doesn’t adequately recognize the relevance and implications of emergence to the “perhaps unresolvable antinomy between free will and determinism”.

[TheMudbrooker]

Why would anyone pay to send Justin to Ireland? Let's not kid ourselves, it's to fuck with the people who have been assfucking a viable, useful movement for their own selfish ends. In the best possible world, after spending an evening pouring free booze down Ophilia and Becky to get them to stop vibrating in rage and terror at the mere presence of their dedicated oppressor, PZ might be provoked into having a Homer Stokes moment.

[youtube]Q3eTSbC3neA[/youtube]

[Tribble]

It's strange to see stuff written by Ophie that's more than a couple of years old. She's so very different to how she was then.

I know. Back then, I even used to have her pre-FtB Butterflies & Wheels listed in my blogroll. The change in her, and the massive degradation of quality (and subjects) of her writing, has actually been depressing to watch for me. She's gone from a reasonably talented writer with interesting things to say to a self-obsessed and paranoid old lady who peers from a crack in her blinds, sure that those dratted neighbor kids are going to toilet-paper the trees in her front yard at any second.

Yes. And it's been really depressing.

[rpguest]

There's not going to be any "burying of the hatchet" and people who think there is are severely fucking deluded.

i assume 'into their skulls' was the unspoken gist

http://memeorama.com/wp-content/uploads ... s-Meme.jpg

Hi oolon.

ha! no its the same perpetuguest.

though admittedly i considered what some cherry picking fainting couch enthusiast would run with

as there is apparently no limit to their paranoid fevered imaginations

[rpguest]

Anyone know what else Ron Lindsay did that weekend other than his speech?

after her was rudely treated on twitter by the strawqueen he had the temerity of responding back

[agarybuseychristmas]

Get real Justin. I haven't said anything about whether or not you going to Dublin is an effective use of your time. I've just noted that you seem to have given yourself at least a $1000 "cushion".

He's a 25-year-old student.

[rpguest]

Cunt may be a cunt, but the cunt is right.

I'm lovely in real life. Phil will discover this soon, possibly in mid-july?

Would be lovely to have you around.

And no, I'm not a serial killer praying on internet people.

thats just what a serial killer preying on internet people would say

[rpguest]

BTW, why is Justin already on the speaker picture list? ;)

all you mustaches look like to me

/foliclist

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/WT0ycyV.jpg

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-625140

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/WT0ycyV.jpg

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-625140

[Jan Steen]

Oops.

[Skep tickle]

Ophelia did let my post advising her to get help for what seems to be a descent into paranoia through, and replied, which I've quoted at the start of my reply, posted here in case it gets roundfiled there:

Skep tickle says: May 27, 2013 at 12:55 pm

Hey “Skep tickle” @ 7 – that’s easy for you, isn’t it. You’re just “Skep tickle” – nobody knows how to follow you around.

1) Why do you assume that a person who publicly makes plans to attend a conference is doing so “to follow you around”? I hope someone whose opinion you value can help explain that that appears either paranoid or self-centered. And yes I am aware of the online “history” between you two.

2) “Dedicated harasser” who is following you around? Reality check: even if that were someone’s purpose, there are much less expensive ways to achieve that, than flying to Ireland.

3) You’re a published author, a well-established blogger, and an invited speaker at conferences in atheism & secularism (& feminism) – of course you’re a public figure, under your own name. Of course there are going to be some people who express agreement & support, and others who express disagreement & criticism, some of which is going to be expressed calmly and some of which (the positive as well as the negative) is going to be expressed with vigor. Doesn’t it come with the territory, whether or not in an ideal world all interaction would be expressed politely (and agree with one’s own point of view, lol).

4) Some people on both “sides” of “the rift” do know my RL name and where I live, for what that’s worth. I maintain semi-anonymity because of my job, as do many atheists, including (presumably) some of your regular commenters.

5) The conference website describes the intended participants and topics:

Religions and religiously-inspired laws discriminate against women. Secular activism can help to empower women. And, whether you are a woman or a man, you can help to shape the future of secular activism and women’s rights around the world by coming to Dublin this June.

…

We will discuss how religion and religiously-influenced laws discriminate against women in areas from healthcare, sexuality and reproductive rights to education, careers and social policy, as well as how to combat violence against women and the history and future of women in atheist and secular activism.

Justin Vacula is a young US atheist activist who has focused on separation of church and state. I see overlap between his interests & work and this conference, though I understand that many here may feel that’s a stretch. Who knows, he may also learn quite a bit about issues women face around the world because of religion. Unless you think he’s going to overshadow the whole conference, which is giving him power he really just doesn’t (and shouldn’t) have.

[Gefan]

There are a few editing issues because I couldn't be assed to figure out how to preview it, but, here ya go:

[youtube]Bz9xiMg31vc[/youtube]

[Gumby]

:clap:
I bow before the mighty Gefan.

:bow-blue:

[Tribble]

Shitballs ... another innocent A+ thread turns problematic -- this time it's a "Recipe Thread for Cautious [i.e., timid to the point of incompetent - ed.] Food-makers."

Emptyell makes the mistake of recommending Egg in a Hole (Nest, Basket. whatever), which she apparently calls Egyptian Eggs or One-Eyed Egyptian eggs (I say apparently because moderator ischemgeek took the liberty of editing the post: "Reason: Removing racially charged food name").

MODERATOR NOTICE: Emptyell, I know you probably don't associate that food name with anything disparaging, but I'd stay away from such food names because they are microagressive.

That's right - even though it has nothing to do with race and refers to ancient Egyptian painting style, it's a "racially charged food name" and a "microaggression."

So Emptyell apologizes for being blind to her microaggressiveness -- d'oh!!! Kassiane pounces:

Sooo associating blindness with a bad thing (like not noticing something you are saying or doing is microaggressive) is also microaggressive...

Classic. Dear A-plussers - you deserve each other:

:moon:
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 739#p83303

But that's what they're called... Egg in a Nest...also known as Egg in a Saddle, Egyptian Egg, One Eye, and Bird in a Nest, is a long-standing favorite.

And it's not derogatory. And they're called Egyptian Eggs because the dish, at least for western civilization, apparently originated there somewhere around 1500BC... It's just naming rights. You invent something, it's named after you or you get to name it.

Like Xerox means 'photocopy.'


These people are fucking lunatics.

[DW Adams]

Now that I have all the links posted in that FFRF thread, I'm going to ask them to find "hate, misogyny or sexism" in anything Justin has written or said.

I was gathering links and looked up and they did all the work for me.

It really is too easy.

Of course I'll be accused, again, of moving the goalposts. I'll bite that bullet as long as I can show them Justin isn't what everyone is trying to make him out to be.

Idiots, one and all.

[Lsuoma]

For what it's worth (not much):

[youtube]TP52JPNz2JY[/youtube]

Bruno Ganz does resemble Feefles a bit...

[Tigzy]

:clap:
I bow before the mighty Gefan.

:bow-blue:

"What the fuck else were they going to do? Get a real job?"

"But mein Fuhrer - struggling for social justice IS a real job!"


:lol:

[Lsuoma]

:clap:
I bow before the mighty Gefan.

:bow-blue:

"What the fuck else were they going to do? Get a real job?"

"But mein Fuhrer - struggling for social justice IS a real job!"


:lol:

That's world-class harassment, that is.

Which charity, Gefan?

[Tribble]

PZ Myers on Russel Blackford.

Its easy to overlook from a general internet forum perspective how extreme this actually is.

One of the things that puts me off the man is that I never get a glimpse of any kind of personal warmth. Lots of sound and fury and utopian ideals, not a lot of humanity.

The problem is that Utopians tend to be totalitarians. And to be a totalitarian, you've got to be an asshole. You can't care about people if you must crush people who believe/are different than you if you're going to make your Utopian Paradise on Earth.

In short, there's no room for empathy, compromise or respect for others in Feminist Utopia.

[Gefan]

:clap:
I bow before the mighty Gefan.

:bow-blue:

I humbly (actually, quite serious about that) accept the praise. I am genuinely honored (if somewhat embarrassed about the editing balls-ups).

Phil, if you read this, sorry. It just kind of fit the frame.
You get a free shot in return. I have a US and a UK passport - take your pick.

[Gefan]

:clap:
I bow before the mighty Gefan.

:bow-blue:

"What the fuck else were they going to do? Get a real job?"

"But mein Fuhrer - struggling for social justice IS a real job!"


:lol:

That's world-class harassment, that is.

Which charity, Gefan?

Thank you, Dear Leader. I am honored.

Sacha has a charity, related to elderly dogs I believe. That would be great.

[Mykeru]

For what it's worth (not much):

[youtube]TP52JPNz2JY[/youtube]

I have this really, really bad bruxing jaw pain. It's like someone is driving a nail into my fucking mandible. Yet I can't make it to the Advil because I am curled up on the floor laughing.

There was a beat...I was waiting...for the moustache reference and BING!

That's fucking great.

I'm Tweeting that mother.

[Steersman]

Re: Dawkins/Miri's blog
So the SJWs are going by a strict sociological definition of 'racism'. Well fuck me, but as if that counts as anything. Any so-called discipline which is as vulnerable to an ideology as sociology is about as useful a genuine measure of society as quantum woo is to science. From wiki ....

Interesting article. But quite right – a whole lot of politically and ideologically motivated “just-so stories” happening. And with some very problematic consequences. For instance, there’s this bit from Lindsay’s recent WiS opening:

What is the definition of social justice? I read a blog post by Louise Pennington the other day; she stated that although patriarchy may predate capitalism, we cannot destroy patriarchy w/o destroying capitalism. Is the destruction of capitalism considered part of a social justice program? If so, that position certainly has very significant implications.

“Significant implications” is probably a serious understatement. One might reasonably argue that that might be construed as a case where the cure – a marxist motivated “destruction of capitalism” – is decidedly worse than the disease – “patriarchy”, assuming that that isn’t a chimera. I hadn’t realized that the one-time proprietor and editor, Arianna Huffington, was quite that “liberal”.

But while there is, I think, more than a small amount of justification for various social safety-net type programs, it doesn’t take much digging or knowledge of history to find cases where going hog-wild on that axis tends to be counter-productive, not least because of its “denial of human nature”. Speaking of which, Pinker again:

These experiments may be artificial, but the motives they expose played themselves out in the real-life experiments known as utopian communities. In the neneteenth century and early decades of the twentieth, self-contained communes based on a philosophy of communal sharing sprang up throughout the United States. All of them collapsed from internal tensions, the ones guided by socialist ideology after a median of two years, the ones guided by religious ideology after a median of twenty years. The Israeli kibbutzim, originally galvanized by socialism and Zionism, steadily dismantled their collectivist philosophy over the decades. …. And the kibbutzim were dragged down by inefficiences because of the free-rider problem – they were, in the words of one kibbutznik, a “paradise for parasites”. [The Blank Slate; pg 257]

The problematic consequences of allowing ideology to override factual evidence and to dictate to science, notably the science of human nature.

[zenbabe]

There are a few editing issues because I couldn't be assed to figure out how to preview it, but, here ya go:

Bz9xiMg31vc

So many good lines.
"The elevator is a shrine to all we hold dear!"

hehe

This whole page is good. Jan and Gumby up to shenanigans too.
:happy-cheerleadersmileyguy:

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Would be lovely to have you around.

And no, I'm not a serial killer praying on internet people.

That's exactly what a serial killer preying on internet peole would say.

No, they would spell "preying" right. And also "people". Not sure anymore. It's late, I had wine.

[Gumby]

For what it's worth (not much):
TP52JPNz2JY]

I have this really, really bad bruxing jaw pain. It's like someone is driving a nail into my fucking mandible. Yet I can't make it to the Advil because I am curled up on the floor laughing.

There was a beat...I was waiting...for the moustache reference and BING!

That's fucking great.

I'm Tweeting that mother.

Hey if I can make someone here laugh I'm happy.

*snif* thanks. What an honor!

[youtube]PkTUc4e0ACA[/youtube]

[justinvacula]

The hypocrisy and sexism of Jamie Kilstein

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... -kilstein/

With all of this rhetoric about “rampant misogyny,” the secular community being “hostile to women,” and filled with “dangerous male speakers,” we have, right here, a very clear example of someone who has negative attitudes toward women. …and I suspect Kilstein is not the only self-professed “secular feminist” who fits the mold.

Hypocrisy and sexism are the order of the day for Jamie Kilstein – “one of the best secular feminists.” Will the same bloggers who were enraged at Ron Lindsay attack someone who actually deserves it for once? Will the “secular feminists” shun Kilstein and, for once, decry one of their own as a misogynist?

[Tribble]

Also, this:

https://lh4.ggpht.com/etvnllV7yyI-N28fu ... fH6TD60ejg

1. I am a man and I have been sexually harassed on the street. By women and men. I was flattered, truth be known.

The women in the office also offered to pay me to strip for the receptionists 'hen night.' I turned them down If a man did that, it'd be a lawsuit against the Company and he'd be fired. I found that flattering too. Six days of lifting, seven of karate, seven of aerobics... I'm glad someone noticed. Especially the girl in accounting. :)


2. No, I'm from San Francisco and the surrounding area. Being white would get your ass kicked by the Chinese and other Asian groups. Consider what was done to them through the 1950's, I kind of understood the hatred and intolerance of Round Eye. Your children, and grandchildren, reap the hatred you sow.

But that's not the only time here in America. I lived in Miami for a year, I took me six months to get a crappy job stocking shelves at a grocery store that went bankrupt. No habla = no job. Guess I shouldn't have taken French in HS.

I also worked in Federal Law Enforcement for two years. Between quotas and racism, white men are on the absolute bottom-of-the-pack. Lower grades. Lower job performance reviews. Lower promotion opportunities. Which is why I left.

Now, if we're going to talk history... LMAO. There are plenty of examples of persecution of white people in history. Mostly by other whites. But it's there, especially in the mid-east and associated regions. White people may have been, on average, history's 'best bastards', but plenty of other cultures have had their bastard moment in the sun and have not spared white people who've been in the way.


3. This is just fucking stupid. Go into a fucking stall and sit. Nobody will know.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

There are a few editing issues because I couldn't be assed to figure out how to preview it, but, here ya go:

Bz9xiMg31vc

Fuck, it had me in stiches! (small critic, longer time for subs, sometimes they're hard to read).

[decius]

Gefan, that's the best Der Untergang parody ever. It nearly killed me, bravo.

[LMU]

PZ Myers on Russel Blackford.


Its easy to overlook from a general internet forum perspective how extreme this actually is.

One of the things that puts me off the man is that I never get a glimpse of any kind of personal warmth. Lots of sound and fury and utopian ideals, not a lot of humanity.

The problem is that Utopians tend to be totalitarians. And to be a totalitarian, you've got to be an asshole. You can't care about people if you must crush people who believe/are different than you if you're going to make your Utopian Paradise on Earth.

In short, there's no room for empathy, compromise or respect for others in Feminist Utopia.

What is a Utopian? I'm idealist in some respects so I wonder if I am one. Perhaps a difference between my view and others is that I think it is crucial that any "Utopia" be built so that it can accomodate the assholes, the stupid, the stupid assholes, and even the monsters. Where by "accomodate" I don't mean "punish, imprison, or destroy." I think this is important for the same reason the ability to make mistakes is necessary for freedom: because to someone else's point of view (potentially the law's), everything you do is a mistake, or a hostile stupid monstrous act. Be kind to monsters not just because you might become one, but because you might be one already.

[codelette]

The hypocrisy and sexism of Jamie Kilstein

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... -kilstein/

With all of this rhetoric about “rampant misogyny,” the secular community being “hostile to women,” and filled with “dangerous male speakers,” we have, right here, a very clear example of someone who has negative attitudes toward women. …and I suspect Kilstein is not the only self-professed “secular feminist” who fits the mold.

Hypocrisy and sexism are the order of the day for Jamie Kilstein – “one of the best secular feminists.” Will the same bloggers who were enraged at Ron Lindsay attack someone who actually deserves it for once? Will the “secular feminists” shun Kilstein and, for once, decry one of their own as a misogynist?

lol. Good one, Justin.
Between the falsely accused rapists, the self confessed -almost- murderers and now this...gee, now I see why those feminists complain so much about sexism. They hang out with assholes and then they think that "all men are the same".

Like Paglia said I don't know where: "I don't blame men, because I do not fear them."