Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[mutleyeng]

The only well known atheist feminists around the table are those previously mentioned, McCreight, Watson, Marcotte and Greta Christina.
I thought I recognized Pamela Gay at the back but it's not her.

Pamela Gay isnt an Atheist - which is probably why she keeps a little distance from skepchicks

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Glad to see you back, Franc.

Only a very select few perverts wish to be in the position where they are able to view franc's back.

I said "you", not "your". But I can see where it would be confusing to some.

Fucking aspies, how do they work?

Like magnets.

Just what I suspected.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Glad to see you back, Franc.

Only a very select few perverts wish to be in the position where they are able to view franc's back.

I said "you", not "your". But I can see where it would be confusing to some.

Fucking aspies, how do they work?

Like magnets.

Just what I suspected.

Although, you sure you don't mean bipolar? (mendatory smiley not included)

[Dick Strawkins]

The only well known atheist feminists around the table are those previously mentioned, McCreight, Watson, Marcotte and Greta Christina.
I thought I recognized Pamela Gay at the back but it's not her.

Pamela Gay isnt an Atheist - which is probably why she keeps a little distance from skepchicks

She is not an atheist but the skepchicks don't really have anything to do with religion.
Pamela Gay has been associated with the wider skeptic movement for a while.
I think she was even one of the women featured in that famous painting of the umbrella-ed FTB/skepchick crowd running up a hill while dodging boulders being flung by the men at the summit.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I'm preparing sausage rolls. Not an innuendo...

[bhoytony]

From PZ Myers' blog...

http://i.imgur.com/kPlv8tn.jpg

Sigh..another stupid fuck who assumes they know anything about me.....PZ should call his blog Psychingula cause him and his commneters think they can read minds and know the details of another person's life. morons

What.. you're a black chick? Can I have your number?

[UnbelieveSteve]

http://i.imgur.com/nqgKBeN.jpg

FIXED IT.

[BarnOwl]

Over on the "I am so over" post, commenter yubal writes:

Simple.

Because the self-defining standard of this movement is the skeptic attitude.

When the mutual enemy is the religious camp you end up with “buddies” that are simply septic about any claim. Including the axioms of human society.

That is why i was skeptical about the “New Atheist” movement and still refuse to “join” the A+ movement. Way too focused on skepticism. Both of them. As if skepticism would be anything else than a tool that you could use. In a rational approach there is an end to skepticism, that is the moment when you have to act.

Humanism HAS to be the driving force for the movement or we are not going anywhere. Not skepticism sexed up with some social activism. And the majority of the movement is “active” about those issues only on the internet.

Fuck me big time, I stay with my die-hard humanist ideals. No war. Ever. No denial of opportunities. To no one. Sharing resources. Promote happiness, be nice to people. Learn how to cook, grow some veggies if you can.

Skeptics were ranked down in my world to useful allies, when it matters. I don’t care who you are and what you think when we join to rebuild a community struck by a tornado. For some reason or another there are always Christians showing up to shovel the dirt, build the shelter, cook the food and pump the water. What are you folks doing? Can you align with a southern baptist when it is about to get a child food, shelter and safety? Great, because that is what this is about.

I don’t care if that shelter for abused woman across the block is run by evangelical Christians, for all the the wrong reasons they claim to be true, I support it, because they do the right thing. It is not about making a case for yourself, it is about resolving the dire situation of someone else.

You ‘arguments’ are almost always irrelevant. Get your ass out of that chair and do something for the better of mankind. Skepticism is a god-damn fucking tool and not an objective.

Atheism isn't even a tool.

And good luck with getting one of the FtB/Skepchick bunch out of a chair for anything other than another drink or maybe a Fluebedoodle-shopping trip.

Wasn't one of their A/S meetings held at a venue shared with a Christian group that was actively packing and distributing food donations for the poor?

[bhoytony]

http://i.imgur.com/nqgKBeN.jpg

FIXED IT.

Sonebody needs to photoshop a cauldren into the middle of that.

[bhoytony]

Sonebody needs to photoshop a cauldren into the middle of that.

Oh fuck! Is there any chance of an edit button? What does everybody think?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Sonebody needs to photoshop a cauldren into the middle of that.

Oh fuck! Is there any chance of an edit button? What does everybody think?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

My 2 cents.

[franc]

Standards are getting a bit high. Remedial action -

ftb_gang1.jpg

(48.87 KiB) Downloaded 6854 times

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/KnlShhE.jpg

[JackSkeptic]

From PZ Myers' blog...

http://i.imgur.com/kPlv8tn.jpg

Sigh..another stupid fuck who assumes they know anything about me.....PZ should call his blog Psychingula cause him and his commneters think they can read minds and know the details of another person's life. morons

They are so casually racist and sexist too. Disgusting.

I don't think any of them have empathy (so they have to replace it with a simplistic dogma to deal with human interaction) so they are completely incapable of understanding why some people find them deeply offensive. That would include women and minorities who would run a mile from such poisonous and deeply patronising thinking.

Where I live there are people of all colours, cultures and backgrounds. There is no racism or misogyny, we just take people as we find them. The world the FtB crowd live in is full of delusion and confirmation bias where hating others just because of their gender or colour of their skin is not only accepted but encouraged. They wouldn't last 5 minutes living in my area, they would be laughed at by the very same people they pretend to represent.

They are naive fools wrapping themselves in a simplistic dogma dripping with sophistry. I pity them.

[windy]

He says this three fucking days after Melody Hensley - who helped him edit his fucking book - had a fucking breakdown on Twitter and had her boyfriend take her to the ER.

I declare his new name as Poe Z Myers.

Saw the breakdown, but when did she edit his book?

In other not-really-news: this by any chance 'our' julian?

This whole thing is ridiculous. Those offended on Amy Roth’s behalf have behaved incredibly childishly towards Dr. Hall and Dr. Hall’s defenders have gone out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt.

Of the two I find Roth’s party less distasteful and judging from the complete disregard for others (Once again, thank you, Hitch, for giving jerks an excuse to be callous human beings) I’m glad to not be part of the skeptical community. You people are outright cruel and hurtful just to win a web argument.

Pot? Kettle? Even if the 'pit somehow toned down to the level of Hall's blog, it'd still be considered "going out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt"... wtf-ever.

[JackSkeptic]

From PZ Myers' blog...

http://i.imgur.com/kPlv8tn.jpg

Sigh..another stupid fuck who assumes they know anything about me.....PZ should call his blog Psychingula cause him and his commneters think they can read minds and know the details of another person's life. morons

What.. you're a black chick? Can I have your number?

In the pub last night I was chatted up by a woman half my age, black and by definition female. Luckily I managed to hide my misogynistic, racist, patriarchal attitudes but it was pretty damn close. Thanks to FtB and A+ I was able to check my privilege every second. The effort gave me nervous ticks but she did not want to appear ableist by commenting on that. Phew. Thanks A+ I owe you.

I could so easily have taken her as she was, been colour blind and ignored her needs as a woman in an oppressive society. Oh, actually, I did and we got on great. Funny how that works.

[Dick Strawkins]

http://i.imgur.com/wIWfFQR.jpg

[JackSkeptic]

He says this three fucking days after Melody Hensley - who helped him edit his fucking book - had a fucking breakdown on Twitter and had her boyfriend take her to the ER.

I declare his new name as Poe Z Myers.

Saw the breakdown, but when did she edit his book?

In other not-really-news: this by any chance 'our' julian?

This whole thing is ridiculous. Those offended on Amy Roth’s behalf have behaved incredibly childishly towards Dr. Hall and Dr. Hall’s defenders have gone out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt.

Of the two I find Roth’s party less distasteful and judging from the complete disregard for others (Once again, thank you, Hitch, for giving jerks an excuse to be callous human beings) I’m glad to not be part of the skeptical community. You people are outright cruel and hurtful just to win a web argument.

Pot? Kettle? Even if the 'pit somehow toned down to the level of Hall's blog, it'd still be considered "going out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt"... wtf-ever.

It's jut another argument from emotion which Hitchens railed against. It does not come to the correct conclusions except by chance. If his argument is 'They are a less bad therefore correct' it is a complete fallacy. One great loss in all of this is the inability to avoid Ad Hominems, a mainstay of any critical thought process. PG et al indulge in this all the time and on reflection he always did. They should not be surprised when they get called on it and their arguments treated as fallacious.

[Karmakin]

Pot? Kettle? Even if the 'pit somehow toned down to the level of Hall's blog, it'd still be considered "going out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt"... wtf-ever.

Didn't stop them from attacking Hall herself, after all.

It's not so much that they're hypocrites, it's that the tribalism trumps any notion of right and wrong or rationality or irrationality. Whatever they do is fine and dandy, whatever we do is wrong and horrible. What is being talked about there is a classic "tone" argument...something that they've railed against in the past. You also see it in the attitude about "hyperskepticism"....then going and demanding triple-plated proof for anything that someone who disagrees says.

[bhoytony]

http://i.imgur.com/wIWfFQR.jpg

Looking at that image it should come as no surprise to anybody that Greta writes a regular Fashion Friday spot on her blog. I'd say that her "look" in that picture is channelling my Gran's "doing the housework" style from before she died 20 years ago aged 80.

[Gumby]

Julian The Neck-Snappin' Spic weighs in on the Harriet Hall controversy. In response to someone who said "but I support her right to have her point of view, and state it without the petty attacks she has been subjected to, supposedly by members of her own community, the skeptics", The Violent One opines:

Because she’s been so above this all, right? No talk of witch hunts or professional victims looking to be offended, right? None of that ever happened, I assume.

This whole thing is ridiculous. Those offended on Amy Roth’s behalf have behaved incredibly childishly towards Dr. Hall and Dr. Hall’s defenders have gone out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt.

Of the two I find Roth’s party less distasteful and judging from the complete disregard for others (Once again, thank you, Hitch, for giving jerks an excuse to be callous human beings) I’m glad to not be part of the skeptical community. You people are outright cruel and hurtful just to win a web argument.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ind ... ent-113435

Thank you for your sage words, Julian. You may now continue to stay classy and above all this nonsense by issuing more of your patented violent death threats :roll:

[JackSkeptic]

Pot? Kettle? Even if the 'pit somehow toned down to the level of Hall's blog, it'd still be considered "going out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt"... wtf-ever.

Didn't stop them from attacking Hall herself, after all.

It's not so much that they're hypocrites, it's that the tribalism trumps any notion of right and wrong or rationality or irrationality. Whatever they do is fine and dandy, whatever we do is wrong and horrible. What is being talked about there is a classic "tone" argument...something that they've railed against in the past. You also see it in the attitude about "hyperskepticism"....then going and demanding triple-plated proof for anything that someone who disagrees says.

Yes, their extensive lexicon of new words and redefinition of existing words is the same behaviour you would see in a cult (which is why I chose my signature) It's easy to invent words, slap a meaning on it with no evidence it is valid and use them for any argument you wish. However it means 99% of what they write is total crap. They even have that covered by calling it 'Advanced Sociology 301' which has the neat trick of blaming the reader for not accepting their junk ideology. As someone noticed earlier they also have the stopper in the wording 'double down' which means 'I have no valid response to your argument and as you won't agree with me immediately I won't talk to you any more but I will happily patronise and abuse you instead.'

Just like a cult.

[Gumby]

Fuck me, once again someone beat me to it.

[Apples]

For the Aussies:
[youtube]0YM9Ereg2Zo[/youtube]
h/t Mano Singham
http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/201 ... no-asians/

[AnonymousCowherd]

Theoretically I'd be interested in that - I'm pretty sure my gender's not important to me in the slightest, but I doubt I'd want to be a man because a) I'm 100% certain that women get a better deal out of life in virtually every way and b) I'd be a *short* man, and I just don't think I could accept that. (I'm also a leetle worried because I'm fairly aggressive and swear a lot, and I realise my gender probably lets me get away with a fuck load of behaviour that would not be considered "socially appropriate" from a man.) Of course currently pregnant with twins so it's not like I could do any hormone shit. But I'd be interested in an experiment if one was ever done that involved that sort of thing.

!!! :shock: :) :D

If you'd mentioned it earlier, I missed the announcement.

Congratulations! When are you due, and how are you doing?

And, of course, you are currently doing some serious "hormone shit" - only it's not at all the approach ZJ' was suggesting :lol:

Congrats twice, Rayshul!

[Gumby]

Does this actually PZ is flouncing from the skeptic community?

It's his childish sour-grapes flounce after he realized he and his band of thugs were excluded from TAM2013.

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/mE9rhJA.jpg

[AnonymousCowherd]

http://i.imgur.com/KnlShhE.jpg

Finally, a straw man Pissy can't trash.

[Submariner]

From PZ Myers' blog...

http://i.imgur.com/kPlv8tn.jpg

Sigh..another stupid fuck who assumes they know anything about me.....PZ should call his blog Psychingula cause him and his commneters think they can read minds and know the details of another person's life. morons

What.. you're a black chick? Can I have your number?

In the pub last night I was chatted up by a woman half my age, black and by definition female. Luckily I managed to hide my misogynistic, racist, patriarchal attitudes but it was pretty damn close. Thanks to FtB and A+ I was able to check my privilege every second. The effort gave me nervous ticks but she did not want to appear ableist by commenting on that. Phew. Thanks A+ I owe you.

I could so easily have taken her as she was, been colour blind and ignored her needs as a woman in an oppressive society. Oh, actually, I did and we got on great. Funny how that works.

Don't leave us hangin' like that Jack. Did you get teh digits?

[Gumby]

It's kinda like in 2001 when the monkey-men encounter the monolith.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 030281.jpg

[Karmakin]

Pot? Kettle? Even if the 'pit somehow toned down to the level of Hall's blog, it'd still be considered "going out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt"... wtf-ever.

Didn't stop them from attacking Hall herself, after all.

It's not so much that they're hypocrites, it's that the tribalism trumps any notion of right and wrong or rationality or irrationality. Whatever they do is fine and dandy, whatever we do is wrong and horrible. What is being talked about there is a classic "tone" argument...something that they've railed against in the past. You also see it in the attitude about "hyperskepticism"....then going and demanding triple-plated proof for anything that someone who disagrees says.

Yes, their extensive lexicon of new words and redefinition of existing words is the same behaviour you would see in a cult (which is why I chose my signature) It's easy to invent words, slap a meaning on it with no evidence it is valid and use them for any argument you wish. However it means 99% of what they write is total crap. They even have that covered by calling it 'Advanced Sociology 301' which has the neat trick of blaming the reader for not accepting their junk ideology. As someone noticed earlier they also have the stopper in the wording 'double down' which means 'I have no valid response to your argument and as you won't agree with me immediately I won't talk to you any more but I will happily patronise and abuse you instead.'

Just like a cult.

One of my last posts on Crommunist, was about how he was talking about the different "levels" of Social Justice, I pointed out that much of their culture/movement was actually at below a 101 level. This was a couple of days after he was SHOCKED..SHOCKED I tell you that a study showed that minorities are racist at about an equal amount as whites. (Which of course most people would tell you...DUH)

The oppressor/oppressed model is the intelligent design of sociology.

[JackSkeptic]

From PZ Myers' blog...

http://i.imgur.com/kPlv8tn.jpg

Sigh..another stupid fuck who assumes they know anything about me.....PZ should call his blog Psychingula cause him and his commneters think they can read minds and know the details of another person's life. morons

What.. you're a black chick? Can I have your number?

In the pub last night I was chatted up by a woman half my age, black and by definition female. Luckily I managed to hide my misogynistic, racist, patriarchal attitudes but it was pretty damn close. Thanks to FtB and A+ I was able to check my privilege every second. The effort gave me nervous ticks but she did not want to appear ableist by commenting on that. Phew. Thanks A+ I owe you.

I could so easily have taken her as she was, been colour blind and ignored her needs as a woman in an oppressive society. Oh, actually, I did and we got on great. Funny how that works.

Don't leave us hangin' like that Jack. Did you get teh digits?

I'm attached but she made it clear she'd be in the pub next week. Of course my ego is now so big I can't get through doors without my head sticking.

[AnonymousCowherd]

For the Aussies:
[youtube]0YM9Ereg2Zo[/youtube]
h/t Mano Singham
http://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/201 ... no-asians/

That's been around for a while, but it's a bewdy mate. Obviously he meant no Austral-asians.

[JackSkeptic]

Pot? Kettle? Even if the 'pit somehow toned down to the level of Hall's blog, it'd still be considered "going out of their way to be cruel and purposefully hurt"... wtf-ever.

Didn't stop them from attacking Hall herself, after all.

It's not so much that they're hypocrites, it's that the tribalism trumps any notion of right and wrong or rationality or irrationality. Whatever they do is fine and dandy, whatever we do is wrong and horrible. What is being talked about there is a classic "tone" argument...something that they've railed against in the past. You also see it in the attitude about "hyperskepticism"....then going and demanding triple-plated proof for anything that someone who disagrees says.

Yes, their extensive lexicon of new words and redefinition of existing words is the same behaviour you would see in a cult (which is why I chose my signature) It's easy to invent words, slap a meaning on it with no evidence it is valid and use them for any argument you wish. However it means 99% of what they write is total crap. They even have that covered by calling it 'Advanced Sociology 301' which has the neat trick of blaming the reader for not accepting their junk ideology. As someone noticed earlier they also have the stopper in the wording 'double down' which means 'I have no valid response to your argument and as you won't agree with me immediately I won't talk to you any more but I will happily patronise and abuse you instead.'

Just like a cult.

One of my last posts on Crommunist, was about how he was talking about the different "levels" of Social Justice, I pointed out that much of their culture/movement was actually at below a 101 level. This was a couple of days after he was SHOCKED..SHOCKED I tell you that a study showed that minorities are racist at about an equal amount as whites. (Which of course most people would tell you...DUH)

The oppressor/oppressed model is the intelligent design of sociology.

They get out of the racist by minorities using three tricks:

1. Redefining it as bigotry or prejudice.

2. Using the word 'racist' only in context of the white supremacy/minority oppression power model.

3. When push comes to shove, blame whites for the minority racism (often by some colonialist narrative)


It is just playing at words again and as usual it is trying to redefine reality to what it is not. In short it is demonstrable false. That is one of many reasons they are not rationalists and have no right to claim they are.

[Submariner]

Jack you ol'sea-dog , you!

I bestow upon you the title of "Honorary Sailor".

[JackSkeptic]

Jack you ol'sea-dog , you!

I bestow upon you the title of "Honorary Sailor".

Aww thanks.

[Apples]

A post from Lilandra at Ace of Clades quotes a Pew survey about African-American religious affiliation:

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion’s importance in life. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups, African-Americans are among the most likely to report a formal religious affiliation, with fully 87% of African-Americans describing themselves as belonging to one religious group or another, according to the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, conducted in 2007 by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Which leads to the hypothesis that the single greatest obstacle to blacks' involvement in the secular movement is people like PZ Myers and his hostile, alienating, arrogant brand of gnu atheism. Same probably goes for women, if you believe Secular Census type data. Not to mention folks like Jen McWrong, who broadcast the notion that to get the darkies interested you have to talk about drugs and jail.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2013 ... ent-black/
http://www.freezepage.com/1361626496WWJSYNNZBK

[youtube]fXo4CfjqN5c[/youtube]

[Submariner]

A post from Lilandra at Ace of Clades quotes a Pew survey about African-American religious affiliation:

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion’s importance in life. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups, African-Americans are among the most likely to report a formal religious affiliation, with fully 87% of African-Americans describing themselves as belonging to one religious group or another, according to the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, conducted in 2007 by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Which leads to the hypothesis that the single greatest obstacle to blacks' involvement in the secular movement is people like PZ Myers and his hostile, alienating, arrogant brand of gnu atheism. Same probably goes for women, if you believe Secular Census type data. Not to mention folks like Jen McWrong, who broadcast the notion that to get the darkies interested you have to talk about drugs and jail.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2013 ... ent-black/
http://www.freezepage.com/1361626496WWJSYNNZBK

Where is the McWrong "broadcast"?

[EdwardGemmer]

A post from Lilandra at Ace of Clades quotes a Pew survey about African-American religious affiliation:

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion’s importance in life. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups, African-Americans are among the most likely to report a formal religious affiliation, with fully 87% of African-Americans describing themselves as belonging to one religious group or another, according to the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, conducted in 2007 by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Which leads to the hypothesis that the single greatest obstacle to blacks' involvement in the secular movement is people like PZ Myers and his hostile, alienating, arrogant brand of gnu atheism. Same probably goes for women, if you believe Secular Census type data. Not to mention folks like Jen McWrong, who broadcast the notion that to get the darkies interested you have to talk about drugs and jail.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2013 ... ent-black/
http://www.freezepage.com/1361626496WWJSYNNZBK

[youtube]fXo4CfjqN5c[/youtube]

+1. If FtB stands for anything, it is that people who are are different from them are awful people. No doubt, minorities want to hear that message :roll:

[windy]

A post from Lilandra at Ace of Clades quotes a Pew survey about African-American religious affiliation:

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion’s importance in life. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups, African-Americans are among the most likely to report a formal religious affiliation, with fully 87% of African-Americans describing themselves as belonging to one religious group or another, according to the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, conducted in 2007 by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Which leads to the hypothesis that the single greatest obstacle to blacks' involvement in the secular movement is people like PZ Myers and his hostile, alienating, arrogant brand of gnu atheism. Same probably goes for women, if you believe Secular Census type data.

Interesting hypothesis, but I think I'll go with their RELIGION being the single greatest obstacle to their involvement in the secular movement...Apples

[Apples]

I'm rather amused that Radford's "PZ uses strawman arguments" satire provoked both PZ and Ophelia to reply -- PZ offering the devastating zinger that hay and straw are distinguishable (in a true feat of asshattery, he manages to "strawman" a piece mocking him for making strawman arguments).

Ophelia of course reproduces nearly the entire article and does her version of fisking ("my fanny hurts"). Here's a tip, Ophelia - if you are completely bereft of wit and comedic talent, you can't successfully fisk a piece of satire without making yourself look like a sourpuss and an idiot.

[Guest]

The oppressor/oppressed model is the intelligent design of sociology.

If the oppressor/oppressed model is the ID of sociology, the "privilege" narrative is the analog to straight up young earth creationism.

:clap:

[Apples]

Where is the McWrong "broadcast"?

It was this post: http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... diversity/
This was iconografer's take on it:
[youtube]HhQA9mLkGmI[/youtube]

[JackSkeptic]

A post from Lilandra at Ace of Clades quotes a Pew survey about African-American religious affiliation:

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion’s importance in life. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups, African-Americans are among the most likely to report a formal religious affiliation, with fully 87% of African-Americans describing themselves as belonging to one religious group or another, according to the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, conducted in 2007 by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Which leads to the hypothesis that the single greatest obstacle to blacks' involvement in the secular movement is people like PZ Myers and his hostile, alienating, arrogant brand of gnu atheism. Same probably goes for women, if you believe Secular Census type data. Not to mention folks like Jen McWrong, who broadcast the notion that to get the darkies interested you have to talk about drugs and jail.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/aronra/2013 ... ent-black/
http://www.freezepage.com/1361626496WWJSYNNZBK

[youtube]fXo4CfjqN5c[/youtube]

No one likes to be patronised. They really can't grasp that treating every minority as a victim is offensive to people in those groups who are quite capable of sticking up for themselves as long as there is an equal footing. I want an equal footing, no more and no less. Most people do. Only people with 'issues', those with no ability to understand the subtlety and complexity of human relations and those trying to get an unfair advantage buy into their ideology.

I wouldn't care about that at all but to steal the word 'Atheism' and 'Freethought' as well as trying to inject their ideology into a community which has no interest in their simplistic narrative is dishonest. If they renamed Atheism Plus to 'SJW+' and 'FtB' to 'Rad Fem Blogs' and left the rationalists get on with what they have always done no one would give a crap. If they stopped trying to hijack conferences with exclusions and histrionics no one would care.

The various movements we have all been part of or interested in had the great strength of being roughly united in how we discuss, openly and without censure, what we believe. That allowed us to communicate effectively together no matter what our race, colour or background. We are not idealogs and are happy to question all our beliefs and consider what people say far more important than who they are.

FtB and A+ go against everything we stand for which is why I am motivated to speak out against it. For me what they believe is almost incidental to the way they project themselves and behave. They are not interested in Atheism or any form of rationalism, some have even said that openly. Blogs by PZ are 90% Ad Hominem and 10% strawman. They have no place in a rationalist community who are doing it's best to try and deal with the overwhelming issues we all face in this world.

[lurking coward]

A post from Lilandra at Ace of Clades quotes a Pew survey about African-American religious affiliation:

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion’s importance in life. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups, African-Americans are among the most likely to report a formal religious affiliation, with fully 87% of African-Americans describing themselves as belonging to one religious group or another, according to the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, conducted in 2007 by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Which leads to the hypothesis that the single greatest obstacle to blacks' involvement in the secular movement is people like PZ Myers and his hostile, alienating, arrogant brand of gnu atheism. Same probably goes for women, if you believe Secular Census type data.

Interesting hypothesis, but I think I'll go with their RELIGION being the single greatest obstacle to their involvement in the secular movement...Apples

I don't have a problem with "gnu atheism" in general, though I think the hostility towards religious moderates is probably counterproductive. That aside, I have been aware of the fact that blacks are generally far more religious than whites, even white American southerners, and that this is only one of several cultural factors which explain their relative absence from the 'skeptic movement' a helluva lot better than polemical charges of racism. Hispanics tend to be more religious also, though Hispanic is a racially ambiguous category which overlaps with black and white.

[Tigzy]

I'm rather amused that Radford's "PZ uses strawman arguments" satire provoked both PZ and Ophelia to reply -- PZ offering the devastating zinger that hay and straw are distinguishable (in a true feat of asshattery, he manages to "strawman" a piece mocking him for making strawman arguments).

Actually, it was, uh, Chris Clarke. Again. Which is kind of ironic, considering the post consisted only of this:

Who here can tell me the difference between hay and straw?

[Submariner]

Where is the McWrong "broadcast"?

It was this post: http://freethoughtblogs.com/blaghag/201 ... diversity/
This was iconografer's take on it:

Thanks for the linky thingy.

[Submariner]

I'm rather amused that Radford's "PZ uses strawman arguments" satire provoked both PZ and Ophelia to reply -- PZ offering the devastating zinger that hay and straw are distinguishable (in a true feat of asshattery, he manages to "strawman" a piece mocking him for making strawman arguments).

Actually, it was, uh, Chris Clarke. Again. Which is kind of ironic, considering the post consisted only of this:

Who here can tell me the difference between hay and straw?

Who here can tell me the difference between Chris Clarke and P Zed?

[Apples]

Interesting hypothesis, but I think I'll go with their RELIGION being the single greatest obstacle to their involvement in the secular movement...Apples

Maybe PZ would win more black converts if he started mocking gospel music and "whoopers."
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/10/20/wh ... index.html

[JackSkeptic]

A post from Lilandra at Ace of Clades quotes a Pew survey about African-American religious affiliation:

While the U.S. is generally considered a highly religious nation, African-Americans are markedly more religious on a variety of measures than the U.S. population as a whole, including level of affiliation with a religion, attendance at religious services, frequency of prayer and religion’s importance in life. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups. Compared with other racial and ethnic groups, African-Americans are among the most likely to report a formal religious affiliation, with fully 87% of African-Americans describing themselves as belonging to one religious group or another, according to the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, conducted in 2007 by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life.

Which leads to the hypothesis that the single greatest obstacle to blacks' involvement in the secular movement is people like PZ Myers and his hostile, alienating, arrogant brand of gnu atheism. Same probably goes for women, if you believe Secular Census type data.

Interesting hypothesis, but I think I'll go with their RELIGION being the single greatest obstacle to their involvement in the secular movement...Apples

I don't have a problem with "gnu atheism" in general, though I think the hostility towards religious moderates is probably counterproductive. That aside, I have been aware of the fact that blacks are generally far more religious than whites, even white American southerners, and that this is only one of several cultural factors which explain their relative absence from the 'skeptic movement' a helluva lot better than polemical charges of racism. Hispanics tend to be more religious also, though Hispanic is a racially ambiguous category which overlaps with black and white.

In the UK it is similar but it is also generational. The younger generation tend to be more secular no matter what race they may identify with. The big bonus in the UK is open tolerance for beliefs, to the point people very rarely discuss religion in any social environment, even with friends. Of my immediate family I can honestly say I do not know what religious beliefs many of them hold as it simply never comes up. The same is true with my friends.

In large parts of the US religion is worn on the sleeve and openly displayed, even by politicians. This is considered vulgar in the UK outside a Church or other place of worship. It also makes my Anti-Theism very hard to do as I am usually seen as a douche as religion is often seen as totally harmless in the UK.

[Tigzy]

Jim the Pleb made me do it:

http://slymepit.com/staticimgs/jtpmmdi.jpg

Rebecca Watson: 'Right, that's my round in. What are the rest of you having?'

[Submariner]

No one likes to be patronised. They really can't grasp that treating every minority as a victim is offensive to people in those groups who are quite capable of sticking up for themselves as long as there is an equal footing. I want an equal footing, no more and no less. Most people do. Only people with 'issues', those with no ability to understand the subtlety and complexity of human relations and those trying to get an unfair advantage buy into their ideology.

I wouldn't care about that at all but to steal the word 'Atheism' and 'Freethought' as well as trying to inject their ideology into a community which has no interest in their simplistic narrative is dishonest. If they renamed Atheism Plus to 'SJW+' and 'FtB' to 'Rad Fem Blogs' and left the rationalists get on with what they have always done no one would give a crap. If they stopped trying to hijack conferences with exclusions and histrionics no one would care.

The various movements we have all been part of or interested in had the great strength of being roughly united in how we discuss, openly and without censure, what we believe. That allowed us to communicate effectively together no matter what our race, colour or background. We are not idealogs and are happy to question all our beliefs and consider what people say far more important than who they are.

FtB and A+ go against everything we stand for which is why I am motivated to speak out against it. For me what they believe is almost incidental to the way they project themselves and behave. They are not interested in Atheism or any form of rationalism, some have even said that openly. Blogs by PZ are 90% Ad Hominem and 10% strawman. They have no place in a rationalist community who are doing it's best to try and deal with the overwhelming issues we all face in this world.

Here, here. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Apples]

I'm rather amused that Radford's "PZ uses strawman arguments" satire provoked both PZ and Ophelia to reply -- PZ offering the devastating zinger that hay and straw are distinguishable (in a true feat of asshattery, he manages to "strawman" a piece mocking him for making strawman arguments).

Actually, it was, uh, Chris Clarke. Again. Which is kind of ironic, considering the post consisted only of this:

Who here can tell me the difference between hay and straw?

Weird - cuz the first comment is Clarke saying, "Ah, I see His Cephalopodness beat me to it by mere seconds."

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/zpu6I0D.jpg

[codelette]

In regards to McBoobquake and the rest of her gang. I daresay that their obsession with "diversity" and ill-informed ways as to how to lure more blacks/hispanics into their world is born from a morbid antropological curiosity. They only see white people in places because they themselves decided to live in places where the majority is white. Seattle, Minneapolis...there's even graphical evidence as to how white the places are. Want to experience diversity? Move to the South.
But they really don't wanna do that. They seem to like the idea of mingling with more minorities only in theory.

[katamari Damassi]

Theoretically I'd be interested in that - I'm pretty sure my gender's not important to me in the slightest, but I doubt I'd want to be a man because a) I'm 100% certain that women get a better deal out of life in virtually every way and b) I'd be a *short* man, and I just don't think I could accept that. (I'm also a leetle worried because I'm fairly aggressive and swear a lot, and I realise my gender probably lets me get away with a fuck load of behaviour that would not be considered "socially appropriate" from a man.) Of course currently pregnant with twins so it's not like I could do any hormone shit. But I'd be interested in an experiment if one was ever done that involved that sort of thing.

!!! :shock: :) :D

If you'd mentioned it earlier, I missed the announcement.

Congratulations! When are you due, and how are you doing?

And, of course, you are currently doing some serious "hormone shit" - only it's not at all the approach ZJ' was suggesting :lol:

Way to flaunt your fertile, childbearing privilege there Rayshul. Not all of us have a uterus you know?

That's my A+theism way of saying congratulations.

[LMU]

In regards to McBoobquake and the rest of her gang. I daresay that their obsession with "diversity" and ill-informed ways as to how to lure more blacks/hispanics into their world is born from a morbid antropological curiosity. They only see white people in places because they themselves decided to live in places where the majority is white. Seattle, Minneapolis...there's even graphical evidence as to how white the places are. Want to experience diversity? Move to the South.
But they really don't wanna do that. They seem to like the idea of mingling with more minorities only in theory.

They can't even tolerate diversity of opinion.

[codelette]

Exactly!


Hey rayshul, save me the placentas!

[JackSkeptic]

Theoretically I'd be interested in that - I'm pretty sure my gender's not important to me in the slightest, but I doubt I'd want to be a man because a) I'm 100% certain that women get a better deal out of life in virtually every way and b) I'd be a *short* man, and I just don't think I could accept that. (I'm also a leetle worried because I'm fairly aggressive and swear a lot, and I realise my gender probably lets me get away with a fuck load of behaviour that would not be considered "socially appropriate" from a man.) Of course currently pregnant with twins so it's not like I could do any hormone shit. But I'd be interested in an experiment if one was ever done that involved that sort of thing.

!!! :shock: :) :D

If you'd mentioned it earlier, I missed the announcement.

Congratulations! When are you due, and how are you doing?

And, of course, you are currently doing some serious "hormone shit" - only it's not at all the approach ZJ' was suggesting :lol:

Way to flaunt your fertile, childbearing privilege there Rayshul. Not all of us have a uterus you know?

That's my A+theism way of saying congratulations.

Yes congratulations Rayshul. Maybe you could pop over to A+ and ask them about childcare. Their brains would explode having to think about something other than themselves. That would be followed by patronising advice about how to bring them up as good Social Warriors fighting injustice wherever they invent it. They only care about teaching what to think not how to think. Religious extremists would be proud of them.

[AndrewV69]

:icon-lol:
That has to qualify as a classic left-handed compliment – thanks, I think.

Though to be fair to Andrew, his posts, I think, have a fair amount of meat to them, just that they frequently require more time and effort to parse than I, at least, frequently have time for ….

You are the wind beneath my wings.

My hero and inspiration.

That is all.