Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Trophy]

I love the following clip that Sam Harris posted recently.
It features Egyptian TV presenter Riham Said facing a islamic cleric and refusing to shut up and listen.
She brings up the subject of sexual abuse of women by clerics and provokes from him a hissy fit worthy of Watson being told she'll have to pay her own bar tab.

[youtube]z2rL6NDoyKg[/youtube]

It is interesting to note the word used by the cleric to describe Rihads challenge of his hypocrisy.

Oooh that was fun. I like how she said that she wore her scarf for god, not for HIM (the cleric) and his demands, demands which he wanted to enforce only when they were on the air, a hypocrisy she instantly confronted him on. Love that she called him out for having to be paid to be interviewed, love that she wouldn't back down, love that -she- ended the interview.

His reactions were very interesting. Not only that he kept claiming harassment but also that he repeatedly threatened to sue the station and shut them down. "If you don't behave the way I demand and act the way I demand I am going to delete you". The parallels with the way PZ et al react when their hypocrisy is exposed and their behaviors are criticized are striking.

But by all means, CSI etc, keep giving them the microphone and paying their expenses for conferences. Just don't wear the scarf if they demand it.

Also, note that as soon as she removed the scarf, the cleric looked the other way and continued to talk to the "wall". Typical Muslim male asshole/fundi behavior.

[AndrewV69]

Thanks for the responses people. I think I have a better handle on Haley et al now.

(who am I kidding. Fuck me if I understand humans)

Indeed.

“Why we do the things we do” seems to be a rather obscure and problematic question with no shortage of answers, many of which are likely to be rather short of the mark. I at least tend to sympathize with the argument that much of what we do is on auto-pilot – I, of course, being the “only living boy in New York” – such that it is maybe less a case of Trivers’ Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life than one of so much happening underneath the hood.

Trivers and Dawkins were directly responsible for my interest in sociobiology, which might be old hat now, but it was huge when it came out in the mid-70s.

I also heard a bit about him when I did a stint in Jamaica. Bit of a wild and crazy guy in his personal life apparently. I had no idea he lived there up till then. From your 1st. link. I pretty well agree except we all must have met people who simply will never fit the bill:

We are all potential murderers, alcoholics, rapists, creatures of sin. Men and woman who want to be, to feel their individuality, but who do not have the trick of it. Most of them succumb and live out their lives in a kind of twilight stupor.

I beg to differ only in the sense that some are more likely to be so than others.

[windy]

If you read the article you'll also see that she mentions only one speaker showing an understanding of the issues - Maryam Namazie, someone who has never joined in the FTB bullying tactics and who remains firmly an ally of Dawkins.

Maryam is the only one there who is sensible and who brings up REAL issues of theocratic sexism. The other bloggers there are just attention seeking missiles who exaggerate and/or make it all about themselves. Their tales of woe are contrived, and indulged in, states of victimhood.

I wouldn't say she's the only one, Mano Singham is also good, and some of the newer bloggers show promise... for example, Yemmynisting has some interesting things to say about the soldier's murder in London:

I was perplexed as to how a Nigerian would claim British soldiers are killing Muslims and women in his land but then it dawned on me that he was not talking about Nigeria, He was referring to Afghanistan, Iraq and other war torn Islamic countries. To this British born man of Nigerian origin, his land was not Nigeria; his homeland is the Muslims headquarters of the world. His adopted religion has totally erased his nationality, his identity and his history. Religion has taken firm hold in his deluded, sick brain.

Since she's also from Nigeria I suppose it's A-plus-approved for her to say that, but is it colonialist othering when I quote it? :think:

[jjbinx007]

Fogg's tweet with the linked article has been RT'd by PeeZus -wonder if he actually read it?

Only 3 RTs and 2 favs after 4hrs (and one of those was from a bot) and no replies at all.

Interesting. It's almost as if they SJWs don't actually care about social justice.

[zenbabe]

I cannot blame the conference coordinators for the behavior of the attendees but this was also a downright surreal experience for both me and my blind friend. Lots of people approached us but, with very few exceptions, they talked to our dogs and not to us humans. A lot of people asked our dog's names but not ours. Those who actually engaged us in conversation talked only about dogs.

Damn. The amount of cluelessness displayed by the attendees is quite amazing. The ONLY benetfit of attending a conference like this is to meet people and talk to them in person. And it's pretty much the normal procedure is that you meet someone, do the introdution, do a little chit chat, ask the obvious questions and if you end up in a nice conversation you continue otherwise, terminate the conversation by "needing to pick up some coffee/juice/cookie/whatever".

Conferences are for meeting, greeting, networking, and socializing. Talking to dogs and ignoring the owners is not socializing. It's the opposite.

Even I as a slymepitter know this kind of stuff.

The whole article sparked up my compassion. It didn't strike me as self-pitying, was presented in a "just the facts" sort of manner, but it hurt to read and consider his overall experience. He and his friend had to hear coffee being poured before they realized there was free coffee available, for example (and on the second day!). And then they had to shout out randomly for someone to help them get some, which (I imagine) must be an action of last resort for them. Creature comforts were ignored, let alone the ability to fully enjoy the speakers and discussions, and the fault lies squarely on Melody's shoulders. He apparently did what he could to bring awareness of his needs to her and was ignored. And she had the gall to cry when he was finally able to tell her of his experience, by doing so making it "all about her" instead of about him and his friend.

This person and his blind friend were far more ostracized than JV and Karla.

I don't blame him for defending Rebecca. She showed him kindness when so painfully few did, his loyalty is an understandable consequence.

[franc]

Biggest difference with Elevatorgate is that while others just talk - he does. And gets under the skin of all the right people. He deserves more credit than just common smarmy disdain from theoretical baboon watchers.

What the fuck does he do that is any different than they do?

{entitled North American parpage deleted}

He does more than you do. At least outside of your own autohagiography.

You made one post. New Media Douchebags.

It was OK.

But, BFD. Your contributions are a pimple on Becky's nipple. Quite contrary to your self-blabvertising. And your Pavlovian attacks on me show it. Entitled White North American disease. It deserves clinical study. Coloured North Americans don't succumb in my experience.

"i-think, therefore i-am" -- Welch, independent freethinker, smiter of uppity Queen's english contrarians

[franc]

Precisely. Lots of people *do* things, but the "toss a hand grenade in the room" approach is not something that works when it's SOP. Getting attention is great, but what do you do afterwards. Elevatorgate is solid at getting attention, but he goes so far off the rails that people stop listening to him, because parsing the good from the WTF starts taking too much effort.

You know what shits me? Armchair commentariat. Shit down my throat all you like, but I at least made the effort to speak to EG prior to casting judgement.

And you compare him to baboons.

You are a self-absorbed clown.

[SenorBeagle]

Caught up again, and shit, Abbie,that's not a nice situation. You have my condolences.

I'm pretty sure the world will end up regretting John's clumsy ass falling off that ladder far more than he ever will.

All I can see now in the outline of the bruise is the silhouette of Homer Simpson's head.

I see an IRA balaclava...

That's the beauty of Welch's ass. You see in it only what you bring yourself. It's like looking into the face of God.

Welch's ass is the Dark Side Cave. Or possibly Ghost Rider's penitence stare.

[EdwardGemmer]

It's amazing that a "room full of experts on privilege" ignored a group of blind people. What hope do us plebians have of ever understanding this issue?

[Apples]

Jen "Vegan Donut" McCreight retweeted this on Monday:

When you click through to the article, however, you learn that 1) according to officials the shooting (off-duty cop shooting perp) occurred outside the PP but apparently had nothing to do with it, and that 2) the other "act of violence" was a dude vandalizing a PP in Bloomington when it was closed and nobody was there.

Now, anti-choice violence is despicable and I *ahem* denounce it unequivocally. But like the flap about harassment at conferences - I can't see how you do anyone, least of all potential patients, any favors when you create an exaggerated impression of danger and violence to bolster your political narrative.

[Lsuoma]

The #vaculamustdenounce twitter hashtag was funny for a while, but it's getting ruined by Vacula spamming it to death.
Vacula, it's meant to be for jokes.
You are just not funny enough! :shifty:

Nobody who is as narcissistic as Vacula can ever be funny. Laughable, yes; funny, no.

[Aneris]

I find it interesting, that Stephanie Zvan goes to Justin Vacula's Twitter page, screencaps conversations and places them on her blog. You can tell that from the background image that shows through. PZ Myers, of course, has no trouble in reporting on a conversation of others, either (as we already know). On this side of the fence, we already know that public conversations are public. Practially everyone comments on anything else, whether it's from their blog shouted over the net, or directly in the comment sections.

But wait a minute. Wasn't looking at public tweets some sort of harassment? Or even terrorism, according to Ophelia Benson. Her commentariat never appeared as having any reservation about her judgment. Stephanie Zvan seconded that motion. In these moments, I wish we had documented the direct quotes from them, for backup (if you find their statements please add them)

[Lsuoma]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

To me it is more like the idea that every time there is an Islamist terrorist attack we need to ask each individual Muslim to personally disavow themselves from it.

Plus they KNOW that Vacula can't resist engaging with anyone who mentions his name in public.

[Lsuoma]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry. I felt bad but also realized that, when I got to my room on Friday and Saturday nights, after spending time at the conference, that I wanted to cry too.

The writer is clearly a friend of the Skepchicks, but the description of Hensleys organizational skills leave me, well not surprised in the least.

He throws in some criticism of Lindsays 'privilege' at the end but I think the obvious thing that Lindsay can be charged with is promoting an incompetent like Melody Hensley far above her ability.

I read the emphasized bit, and all I can think of, in the light of the rest of the report, is "manipulative cunt." (Actually, my first thought was "manipulative bitch" but I don't want to be sexist.)

[AbsurdWalls]

I cannot blame the conference coordinators for the behavior of the attendees but this was also a downright surreal experience for both me and my blind friend. Lots of people approached us but, with very few exceptions, they talked to our dogs and not to us humans. A lot of people asked our dog's names but not ours. Those who actually engaged us in conversation talked only about dogs.

Damn. The amount of cluelessness displayed by the attendees is quite amazing. The ONLY benetfit of attending a conference like this is to meet people and talk to them in person. And it's pretty much the normal procedure is that you meet someone, do the introdution, do a little chit chat, ask the obvious questions and if you end up in a nice conversation you continue otherwise, terminate the conversation by "needing to pick up some coffee/juice/cookie/whatever".

Conferences are for meeting, greeting, networking, and socializing. Talking to dogs and ignoring the owners is not socializing. It's the opposite.

Even I as a slymepitter know this kind of stuff.

The whole article sparked up my compassion. It didn't strike me as self-pitying, was presented in a "just the facts" sort of manner, but it hurt to read and consider his overall experience. He and his friend had to hear coffee being poured before they realized there was free coffee available, for example (and on the second day!). And then they had to shout out randomly for someone to help them get some, which (I imagine) must be an action of last resort for them. Creature comforts were ignored, let alone the ability to fully enjoy the speakers and discussions, and the fault lies squarely on Melody's shoulders. He apparently did what he could to bring awareness of his needs to her and was ignored. And she had the gall to cry when he was finally able to tell her of his experience, by doing so making it "all about her" instead of about him and his friend.

This person and his blind friend were far more ostracized than JV and Karla.

I don't blame him for defending Rebecca. She showed him kindness when so painfully few did, his loyalty is an understandable consequence.

Since when is "defending" Rebecca for doing the right thing a blameworthy offense? She has done some bad dishonest things to try to achieve her (questionable) objectives. That doesn't make her a monster.

Trophy: The blame also rests on anybody who noticed what was going on and didn't try to get things sorted. So many SJWs there and nobody managed to get these issues fixed?

[codelette]

These two, fighting the patriarchy with a lot of reading!
http://i.imgur.com/hCtnncj.png

[Apples]

OMG I just read that blind persons summary of his experience at WiS2. If it really went down that way, Melody comes off as the most insensitive vacuous bitch on the planet. "Yeah I know exactly what it's like to be blind because I once hurt my ankle and couldn't walk up the stairs."

:violin:

Fuck me sideways. You'd think that would teach Hensley to think before she speaks, and that baselessly throwing around accusations of "privilege" is liable to eventually lead to your being nailed to the hypocrisy wall... but something tells me she Just. Won't. Get. It..... and the next time she meets a quadriplegic she'll say "Hey, I know just what you're going through - I had a hangnail once and it was a real oww-eee!

Great find, Dick!

I spotted it on Ally Fogg's twitter feed.

Kassiane has a thread up at Atheism+ called "Amanda Marcotte's ableism" (apparently Marcotte speculates about the ASD status of people she finds unempathetic or socially awkward? Something like that). FTB comes in for some general criticism (apparently it is their blind spot ;) ).

Amadan comments that s/he is chewing over some of the general points about ableism raised in the thread and isn't sure s/he agrees totally, to which Ceepolk replies --

"the people who are directly affected by marcotte's abelism have said right here that it is. That's absolutely basic 101 how to tell if something is ableist, and this isn't a 101 zone. there's nothing to consider, unless you don't think that their experience is meaningful or valid."

Oops - don't think about or consider something without Ceepolk's permission - that's big a no-no!

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4766

[bovarchist]

Jen "Vegan Donut" McCreight retweeted this on Monday:

When you click through to the article, however, you learn that 1) according to officials the shooting (off-duty cop shooting perp) occurred outside the PP but apparently had nothing to do with it, and that 2) the other "act of violence" was a dude vandalizing a PP in Bloomington when it was closed and nobody was there.

Now, anti-choice violence is despicable and I *ahem* denounce it unequivocally. But like the flap about harassment at conferences - I can't see how you do anyone, least of all potential patients, any favors when you create an exaggerated impression of danger and violence to bolster your political narrative.

Pointing out that kind of duplicity is a bannable offense at Pharyngula.

[Cunning Punt]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry. I felt bad but also realized that, when I got to my room on Friday and Saturday nights, after spending time at the conference, that I wanted to cry too.

The writer is clearly a friend of the Skepchicks, but the description of Hensleys organizational skills leave me, well not surprised in the least.

He throws in some criticism of Lindsays 'privilege' at the end but I think the obvious thing that Lindsay can be charged with is promoting an incompetent like Melody Hensley far above her ability.

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry.

Oh, for fuck's sake fuck off.

[Dick Strawkins]

The blind guy who was ignored by Melody Hensley seems to be a long time friend of Rebecca, probably through knowing her from the UK based pod delusion podcast that involved both of them.

He has written a couple of articles for the skepchicks site, the most recent being just a few weeks ago.

http://skepchick.org/2013/05/guest-post ... hofstader/

He seems none too happy with the other members of the SGU.

When SGU was working to update their website, I wrote to Jay Novella, apparently the brother tasked with the website project, to make a similar offer to him to help with accessibility. Jay sent me an email that said, “Thanks for your offer but accessibility is simply not a priority right now.” It seems that this sort of thinking is probably also why SGU rarely engages in discussions of a broader, more social skepticism topic discussions. Clearly, excepting the wonderful Rebecca Watson, they don’t want to challenge the fundamental belief system held by them and any other group of reasonably well-educated, middle- to upper-middle class, white male Connecticut residents on necessary social policies. I find it ironic that such discriminatory behavior is what defines a “rogue” but, alas, few white men even understand the concept of what a real rogue is, i.e. one who takes action and challenges on issues that are far outside of a safe suburban home.

Is that what a 'real rogue' is? :think:

[deLurch]

Talking to dogs and ignoring the owners is not socializing. It's the opposite.
Even I as a slymepitter know this kind of stuff.

The one thing I know is to never fuck with (i.e. pet, play etc) with an aid dog. They are there to do a job and the owner doesn't need you distracting their aid dog from that job. Hell, almost every aid dog I have ever seen is labeled as such.

[Aneris]

OMG I just read that blind persons summary of his experience at WiS2. If it really went down that way, Melody comes off as the most insensitive vacuous bitch on the planet. "Yeah I know exactly what it's like to be blind because I once hurt my ankle and couldn't walk up the stairs."

:violin:

Fuck me sideways. You'd think that would teach Hensley to think before she speaks, and that baselessly throwing around accusations of "privilege" is liable to eventually lead to your being nailed to the hypocrisy wall... but something tells me she Just. Won't. Get. It..... and the next time she meets a quadriplegic she'll say "Hey, I know just what you're going through - I had a hangnail once and it was a real oww-eee!

Great find, Dick!

I spotted it on Ally Fogg's twitter feed.

Kassiane has a thread up at Atheism+ called "Amanda Marcotte's ableism" (apparently Marcotte speculates about the ASD status of people she finds unempathetic or socially awkward? Something like that). FTB comes in for some general criticism (apparently it is their blind spot ;) ).

Amadan comments that s/he is chewing over some of the general points about ableism raised in the thread and isn't sure s/he agrees totally, to which Ceepolk replies --

"the people who are directly affected by marcotte's abelism have said right here that it is. That's absolutely basic 101 how to tell if something is ableist, and this isn't a 101 zone. there's nothing to consider, unless you don't think that their experience is meaningful or valid."

Oops - don't think about or consider something without Ceepolk's permission - that's big a no-no!

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4766

Though Setar's comment is pretty good.

[Remick]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

To me it is more like the idea that every time there is an Islamist terrorist attack we need to ask each individual Muslim to personally disavow themselves from it.

Plus they KNOW that Vacula can't resist engaging with anyone who mentions his name in public.

Being that easy to troll, plus the fact that Justin suffers from the common error of not being as witty as he thinks he is, leads to his growing pile of boneheaded mistakes.


This seems relevant:

[youtube]zO1982Bo57c[/youtube]

[Scented Nectar]

If you read the article you'll also see that she mentions only one speaker showing an understanding of the issues - Maryam Namazie, someone who has never joined in the FTB bullying tactics and who remains firmly an ally of Dawkins.

Maryam is the only one there who is sensible and who brings up REAL issues of theocratic sexism. The other bloggers there are just attention seeking missiles who exaggerate and/or make it all about themselves. Their tales of woe are contrived, and indulged in, states of victimhood.

I wouldn't say she's the only one, Mano Singham is also good, and some of the newer bloggers show promise... for example, Yemmynisting has some interesting things to say about the soldier's murder in London:

I was perplexed as to how a Nigerian would claim British soldiers are killing Muslims and women in his land but then it dawned on me that he was not talking about Nigeria, He was referring to Afghanistan, Iraq and other war torn Islamic countries. To this British born man of Nigerian origin, his land was not Nigeria; his homeland is the Muslims headquarters of the world. His adopted religion has totally erased his nationality, his identity and his history. Religion has taken firm hold in his deluded, sick brain.

Since she's also from Nigeria I suppose it's A-plus-approved for her to say that, but is it colonialist othering when I quote it? :think:

I don't think I'll ever be able to take her seriously after that poem where she gets horny over natural disasters. :shock:

[bovarchist]

Talking to dogs and ignoring the owners is not socializing. It's the opposite.
Even I as a slymepitter know this kind of stuff.

The one thing I know is to never fuck with (i.e. pet, play etc) with an aid dog. They are there to do a job and the owner doesn't need you distracting their aid dog from that job. Hell, almost every aid dog I have ever seen is labeled as such.

Your speciesist bullshit makes me SICK! SICK I SAY! :snooty:

[AndrewV69]

Also, note that as soon as she removed the scarf, the cleric looked the other way and continued to talk to the "wall". Typical Muslim male asshole/fundi behavior.

Actually some of the stricter versions of Islam dictate that he is not supposed to talk to uncovered women. So he has to do that because he is on TV and one of the adherents to that sort of regime would get offended otherwise. Mind he is already in trouble with those who believe that it is haram because she is not veiled in the first place.

Google the phrase "salafi marriage bandits" and you will see that this is a problem that some in the various Muslim communities are aware of. While there is at least one informal organization I know of in the UK that has been set up to deal with the fallout (finding shelter and eventually another husband for some of the victims and so on) there are difficulties in trying to prevent the culprits from reoffending in the first place.

Some of the reasons are cultural and the fact that the majority of the women hoodwinked are unwilling to come forward in public in the first place for all the various reasons that for example rape victims experience. Even so, some have complainied semi-anonymously for example here: https://marriagebandits.wordpress.com/ Everyone involved actually are pretty reluctant to airing their dirty laundry in public, and I imagine even more so in the West.

Basically, the "Marriage Bandits" have discovered "Game" and what you are seeing is one version of the worst type of PUA, Muslim style. Like one story I heard of, where a young woman was married in Venezuela and weeks later abandoned in Egypt.

As a side note, the PC crowd is not going to like hearing this but from what I see a substantial number of women do not seem to be able to help themselves and appear to have an involuntary response to men who exhibit the "Dark Triad" traits, some much more so than others.

Viewed in this light I am starting to speculate that perhaps the ways that societies organized themselves over time have been in response to observed results, and that many of the things that make no sense to us nowadays may have had a solid reason for being implemented in the first place. Cue the whole business of "male disposable" imposed monogamy etc. etc. etc.

[AbsurdWalls]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

To me it is more like the idea that every time there is an Islamist terrorist attack we need to ask each individual Muslim to personally disavow themselves from it.

Plus they KNOW that Vacula can't resist engaging with anyone who mentions his name in public.

Being that easy to troll, plus the fact that Justin suffers from the common error of not being as witty as he thinks he is, leads to his growing pile of boneheaded mistakes.


This seems relevant:

[youtube]zO1982Bo57c[/youtube]

I am amused that the clueless FtBers think we worship Justin.

[franc]

He <elevatorgate> chooses to make himself more of a target for criticism (from either "side") by doing what he does. Just because he is against the baboons does not make him exempt from criticism or eye-rolling from the people here. Your "stop shitting on him" and "he deserves more credit [from pitters]" doesn't work here.

Yes. And? You weenies that comment from the sidelines should be grateful he draws fire.

What a bunch of vanilla chickenshits you all are when you boil it down.

And who said he doesn't deserve criticism? The real critique is between doing nothing and something. This is why EG earns a bit of respect. And the spitgobs from the z-seats earn none.

[Dick Strawkins]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

To me it is more like the idea that every time there is an Islamist terrorist attack we need to ask each individual Muslim to personally disavow themselves from it.

Plus they KNOW that Vacula can't resist engaging with anyone who mentions his name in public.

Being that easy to troll, plus the fact that Justin suffers from the common error of not being as witty as he thinks he is, leads to his growing pile of boneheaded mistakes.


This seems relevant:

zO1982Bo57c[/youtube]

I am amused that the clueless FtBers think we worship Justin.

Indeed.
He gets a lot of coverage from the likes of Svan, Ophelia and PeeZus for the simple reason that he is accident prone - particularly the sort of accidents that involve feet ending up in mouths.
He's an easy target because they can always rely on him doing something silly and thus justifying their vilification.

[Apples]

Though Setar's comment is pretty good.

And later in the thread he calls people out for "hurling ableism" at Vacula!

and now people are taking it upon themselves to hurl ableism at Justin Vacula. because no true skeptic would ever be capable of bigoted assholery, the assholes just have to be objectively worse.

it's like they just can't fucking get over themselves, ever. they have to be the paragons of reason rationality and righteousness and don't you dare suggest that they're anything so frail and fallible as human. until of course you call them out on it.

[AbsurdWalls]

Though Setar's comment is pretty good.

And later in the thread he calls people out for "hurling ableism" at Vacula!

and now people are taking it upon themselves to hurl ableism at Justin Vacula. because no true skeptic would ever be capable of bigoted assholery, the assholes just have to be objectively worse.

it's like they just can't fucking get over themselves, ever. they have to be the paragons of reason rationality and righteousness and don't you dare suggest that they're anything so frail and fallible as human. until of course you call them out on it.

Wow. What phase is the moon in today? Have the planets aligned?

[AndrewV69]

A very simple way to accommodate those individuals. I have found this approach very practical for everyone, but then I am probably just an ableist hardass.

My experience doing volunteer tech support for the blind has led me to conclude that you need to have a lot of patience if you are blind and using a windows GUI on a computer.

How would you like to have to call me every time you needed to do say a money transfer because you can not tab to the field, but have to click on a specific spot that could be anywhere on your screen?

So along with the daily frustrations, try living alone and doing your own cooking for example if you can not read the labels on the cans, it is easy enough I imagine for that sort of thing to accumulate and to express itself in a manner disproportionate to the actual event.

[deLurch]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

Yup. But there is also this:

IMO, the demand for denouncement is to (partially) shut up his own base so in case he talks to JV, they don't turn on him. It's a typical political maneuver.

I think we should be careful about jumping on Silverman's shit for this stunt. Hell, we should be careful about jumping on anyone's shit for any single incident unless you want to pick up your baboon feces and join their crowd.

Some people may be pissed that Silverman asked Justin to denounce all sorts of practices that Justin isn't involved in. But on the flip side, Silverman may also be trying to give Justin some (what he considers) good advice on how to navigate these politics. When he said "@justinvacula can't get into this now. One final word. If you can't bring yourself to fight shit, you will be seen as approving it." That is probably exactly why Silverman jumped on this bandwagon. Silverman is in a political position & this is how he thinks the best way of dealing with it is for himself.

I am trying to recall the last few hostile interviews with Silverman, but he and atheists get accused of all sorts of shit. If I am not mistaken, Silverman's response tactic is to loudly denounce approval for all such activities that he & atheists are accused of. For at least as hostile interviews go, that kind of takes the wind out of their sails for continuing that tactic for the duration of the interview.

I don't know exactly how Silverman stands on these issues, but if he is willing to do an interview with Justin, I suspect he at least understands both sides of the coin. Given the baboon's reaction to the upcoming interview, I hope Silverman has not made a costly mistake of getting involved, as with them, you just can't get involved, you have to be pure in your involvement.

[zenbabe]

This person and his blind friend were far more ostracized than JV and Karla.

I don't blame him for defending Rebecca. She showed him kindness when so painfully few did, his loyalty is an understandable consequence.

Since when is "defending" Rebecca for doing the right thing a blameworthy offense? She has done some bad dishonest things to try to achieve her (questionable) objectives. That doesn't make her a monster.

Fair point. When I said "blame" though was referring to his defense of Rebecca in her argument with Lindsay, and his criticism of Lindsay. So easy for emotion to cloud judgement. I don't think he's seeing clearly there but I understand why that might be difficult. I didn't mean blame for her kindness to him. My perception of her shaded to a very dark grey from black for making some effort to help him.

Trophy: The blame also rests on anybody who noticed what was going on and didn't try to get things sorted. So many SJWs there and nobody managed to get these issues fixed?

/nod. Melody's lack of action was really bad, but even if she had made the changes he asked for he still would have encountered all the other crappy behavior from the rest of the crowd, which sucked.

[AbsurdWalls]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

Yup. But there is also this:

IMO, the demand for denouncement is to (partially) shut up his own base so in case he talks to JV, they don't turn on him. It's a typical political maneuver.

I think we should be careful about jumping on Silverman's shit for this stunt. Hell, we should be careful about jumping on anyone's shit for any single incident unless you want to pick up your baboon feces and join their crowd.

Some people may be pissed that Silverman asked Justin to denounce all sorts of practices that Justin isn't involved in. But on the flip side, Silverman may also be trying to give Justin some (what he considers) good advice on how to navigate these politics. When he said "@justinvacula can't get into this now. One final word. If you can't bring yourself to fight shit, you will be seen as approving it." That is probably exactly why Silverman jumped on this bandwagon. Silverman is in a political position & this is how he thinks the best way of dealing with it is for himself.

I am trying to recall the last few hostile interviews with Silverman, but he and atheists get accused of all sorts of shit. If I am not mistaken, Silverman's response tactic is to loudly denounce approval for all such activities that he & atheists are accused of. For at least as hostile interviews go, that kind of takes the wind out of their sails for continuing that tactic for the duration of the interview.

I don't know exactly how Silverman stands on these issues, but if he is willing to do an interview with Justin, I suspect he at least understands both sides of the coin. Given the baboon's reaction to the upcoming interview, I hope Silverman has not made a costly mistake of getting involved, as with them, you just can't get involved, you have to be pure in your involvement.

Also, the FtBers etc. constantly claim that the people who criticise them (such as those here) approve of anything nasty that does happen to them. This isn't borne out by the facts from what I have seen on this forum, but their constant insistence on it is going to influence the narrative for anyone who doesn't come here themselves to see it isn't true... and the format of this website is not conducive to making it clear that most of us disapprove of authentically bad shit (as opposed to verifiably made-up shit like the claims about Sacha intending to accost Watson) that happens.

That's not a criticism of this website, but it is just a forum and so if you want to understand it you are going to have to commit to digging through at least a dozen pages or so to get a feel for how things are - and that means reading with a sympathetic eye rather than just skimming it looking for things that can be matched to a preconceived idea that it is awful.

[franc]

Is "Elevatorgate" the chick that is in the wallpaper on their twitter homepage?

https://twitter.com/ElevatorGATE

This is nice. EG got politely asked by Grothe to desist - and he did. It's not the things you see - it's what you don't notice.

Carry on lynching.

[franc]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

[Zenspace]

A very simple way to accommodate those individuals. I have found this approach very practical for everyone, but then I am probably just an ableist hardass.

My experience doing volunteer tech support for the blind has led me to conclude that you need to have a lot of patience if you are blind and using a windows GUI on a computer.

How would you like to have to call me every time you needed to do say a money transfer because you can not tab to the field, but have to click on a specific spot that could be anywhere on your screen?

So along with the daily frustrations, try living alone and doing your own cooking for example if you can not read the labels on the cans, it is easy enough I imagine for that sort of thing to accumulate and to express itself in a manner disproportionate to the actual event.

When put that way, it does make a bit more sense. Add the factor that one might assume the WiSC conference to be a more understanding and receptive environment for persons with various disabilities and it isn't that much of a stretch to see why the frustration might run to a higher level. So, good point and I retract my 'self-centered' comment.

[deLurch]

Doesn't seem to me like the guy's on our side. It certainly doesn't provide any help for Lindsay.

I don't know why this guy needs to be on anyone's side. He has a set of issues, and at least he is clear about spelling out what they are.

Also, as an aside, I'm not sure the author is entirely consistent about how he wants to be treated. Is he asking to be treated like everybody else because he's just as capable as they are, or is he asking for special help and consideration because he's disabled?

I am going to go with neither. He spells out exactly what is needed and what isn't. I do think it somewhat odd, that he chastises them for explaining the lanyard which he says is obvious, but there are plenty of other scenarios such as the refreshments that are not obvious to everyone else as to what he is aware of or what he is not. For all anyone else may have know, he might have said 'duh, I can smell & hear the coffee.'

On one side, this guy would have been better served if he had piped up earlier in the event about some of the issues he was running into. On the other side, Melody completely failed to take advantage of being forewarned about his needs in that email he sent well in advance. It was also a stupid mistake to not attempt to get the guy a refund for the difference in the early bird special. I understand Melody being in close to an impossible situation of speakers not having power point sides even produced before the event for her to pass along to him. But some speakers probably did have them ready. She just completely dropped the ball and didn't even make an attempt at reasonable accommodation.

If I were Melody, the smart choice for an event small as this, would be to have obtained a volunteer to interact with people who have disabilities to make sure their needs were being met. Volunteers are cheap, as long as you don't need a huge amount of them, and they typically love doing shit like this. Plus the volunteer would get free access to the conference. It would have been the a great easy catch-all to head off disability issues & concerns.

Note to everyone else, learn from other people's mistakes.

[Zenspace]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

Threat/victim post coming in 10...9...8...7...

[bovarchist]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

Also known as a terrorist death threat.

[dogen]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

Wow, quotemine target much?

[franc]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

Threat/victim post coming in 10...9...8...7...

Fuck the dried up vacuous cunt. I would rather have brain cancer than be her. Imagine for a second what steps you would have to take in life to become such a vicious, dried up old toad? Her own self-inflicted misery is crueller than the vilest misogynist fantasies she barfs up. I would feel pity. But she's not a dog.

[franc]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

Wow, quotemine target much?

I mine myself. If you know different, cough it up.

[AbsurdWalls]

Looks like someone is jealous.

[d4m10n]

Looks like someone is jealous.

Franc just wishes he could hate as hard as Ophelia does.

[Aneris]

[...]I think we should be careful about jumping on Silverman's shit for this stunt. [...] Silverman is in a political position & this is how he thinks the best way of dealing with it is for himself. [...]

Some have noted before, when given the opportunity, speak out against something. However, the flipside is that other people have the prerogative of interpretation. They determine the narrative, and they frame the reactions to it and they make the demands, while they are seemingly beyond criticism. They are the judges so to speak. And that, precisely, must be changed. Especially when the Baboons are always on about some harassment and stalking, they are leading others by the nose ring. Watson or Eristae or someone whines about harassment again, and we are expected to give them support. AND that, my friend, is bullying. It is no different to when a silverback is parading on the school yard, suddenly charges to someone, stares in their face and exclaims: "DID you just mock me!?" and then demanding apology. Where I more feel like kicking in their balls, making jokes and from then on really mocking them. Bullies deserve nothing else.

[AbsurdWalls]

Looks like someone is jealous.

Franc just wishes he could hate as hard as Ophelia does.

I think Franc is upset that Justin has taken his place as the bête noire, and has decided to do something controversial, bold, and completely fucking stupid.

[franc]

Looks like someone is jealous.

Franc just wishes he could hate as hard as Ophelia does.

I just want to empty a box of corn husks over my face while smelling a cocktail of tuna oil and pensioner farts as I jerk off and scream JESUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! I don't want much and I promise to hurt nobody. I love you Ophelia.

[Tony Parsehole]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

Wow, quotemine target much?

Everything's a quotemine target with those cunts. You could say how much you enjoy cooking with your family and they would say "OMGZ!!! EH IS USIN' IZ FAMBLEE FOR INGREDIENTZ IN CANNIBALZ COOKEREEY!!!11"
There's no point in watching what you say so you might as well say how you feel.

For what it's worth I prefer the analogy of her being an incessantly barking, toothless and incontinent Yorkshire Terrier that mistakenly thinks everybody is scared of it when in reality they just want her to shut the fuck up and stop shitting everywhere.

[Dave]

[...]I think we should be careful about jumping on Silverman's shit for this stunt. [...] Silverman is in a political position & this is how he thinks the best way of dealing with it is for himself. [...]

Some have noted before, when given the opportunity, speak out against something. However, the flipside is that other people have the prerogative of interpretation. They determine the narrative, and they frame the reactions to it and they make the demands, while they are seemingly beyond criticism. They are the judges so to speak. And that, precisely, must be changed. Especially when the Baboons are always on about some harassment and stalking, they are leading others by the nose ring. Watson or Eristae or someone whines about harassment again, and we are expected to give them support. AND that, my friend, is bullying. It is no different to when a silverback is parading on the school yard, suddenly charges to someone, stares in their face and exclaims: "DID you just mock me!?" and then demanding apology. Where I more feel like kicking in their balls, making jokes and from then on really mocking them. Bullies deserve nothing else.

Great, now Im picturing Joe Pesci playing Rebecca Watson:

[youtube]IWINtUCshxY[/youtube]

[Tony Parsehole]

When we've seen the baboons twist Ron Lindsay's vanilla WiS speech into a diatribe worthy of a fucking lynch mob demanding he gets sacked from his job I'm surprised anybody is really bothered about being quote-mined.

[Zenspace]

When I was about 13, a neighbour had a dog that was half dead, a ~15yo boxer. It used to pace in circles in the yard, yelping and growling. It would stop occasionally to bark at the same space of non-descript wall as though there was a burglar. Then it would resume pacing.

That dog is Ophelia Benson. If you had mercy, you would shoot it.

Threat/victim post coming in 10...9...8...7...

Fuck the dried up vacuous cunt. I would rather have brain cancer than be her. Imagine for a second what steps you would have to take in life to become such a vicious, dried up old toad? Her own self-inflicted misery is crueller than the vilest misogynist fantasies she barfs up. I would feel pity. But she's not a dog.

That aspect I agree with completely. If you are that miserable 24/7, why maintain that lifestyle? I do not follow her at all, she offers nothing of interest to me on any level. I've seen enough of her work posted by others that I occasionally wonder if the running threat narrative she maintains is an honest misperception on her part (which would be truly a sad thing to live under that self-constructed perceived reality) or, like RW, intentionally maintains that narrative in an effort to gain attention. The latter is at least an intentional effort and,while dishonest in and of itself, isn't a symptom of delusional paranoia.

In either case, the result is very predictable:

...6...5...4...3...

[Lsuoma]

For what it's worth I prefer the analogy of her being an incessantly barking, toothless and incontinent Yorkshire Terrier that mistakenly thinks everybody is scared of it when in reality they just want her to shut the fuck up and stop shitting everywhere.

Which, when it comes down to brass tacks, is definitely more attractive than the reality of Ophelia "Fucking Stupid Bitch" Benson.

No need to quotemine that one, Fucking Stupid Bitch.

[AndrewV69]

Looks like someone is jealous.

Franc just wishes he could hate as hard as Ophelia does.

howareusocalm.jpg

(98.79 KiB) Downloaded 245 times

[d4m10n]

Looks like someone is jealous.

Franc just wishes he could hate as hard as Ophelia does.

I think Franc is upset that Justin has taken his place as the bête noire, and has decided to do something controversial, bold, and completely fucking stupid.

Agreed. And surely he'll be featured on B&W shortly.

Still, if it leads to a video of this…

I just want to empty a box of corn husks over my face while smelling a cocktail of tuna oil and pensioner farts as I jerk off and scream JESUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!

…then Franc will have a shot at overcoming THE AMAZING ATHEIST in another category of notoriety — absurdist erotic protest performance art. So that would be quite something.

David Silverman denouncement caveat:
Hatred is bad, okay?

[Dick Strawkins]

Looks like someone is jealous.

Franc just wishes he could hate as hard as Ophelia does.

I think Franc is upset that Justin has taken his place as the bête noire, and has decided to do something controversial, bold, and completely fucking stupid.

Sometimes I think that franc is an Ophelia sock puppet, designed to exhort outrage, sympathy and (most importantly) donations, from her flock by making up stupid insults that are handy for quoting. She's been living off that 'cunt-kick' line for the past year and a half.
Why doesn't franc just put a paypal link for Ophelia donations in his sig and have done with it.

[AbsurdWalls]

I think I am done with this. Best wishes everyone, and catch you around elsewhere.

[Southern]

it's Eucli's younger brother

Whoever that is.
Then again, this IS the pit and there are some feminists and probably a few OOLON sock puppets lurking about...

Pff. Everybody knows that the only sock puppets are franc's.

And, as you are discussing with welch and all, I'm pretty sure YOU are a sock puppet of franc hoggle. Ha! Gotcha.

I can see I'm REALLY going to have to catch up on who this Franc Hoggle guy is. You guys bring him up all the time, but I can remember nothing about him from the original EG brouhaha or as having anything to do with why this site was formed by Erv.

I'll do a googles. I'm not lazy. And I probably knew who he was but forgot. I'm getting old...just turned 42. I plead advanced age or wisdom or something.

It's a reference to a common FTB assertion, that the Slymepit is really a bunch of Franc Hoggle's (aka "Victor Ivanoff", as they think they doxxed him) sock puppets.

And, as Welch (aka "The Wizard Guy", from now on) is usually seen having heated discussions with Franc about... well, everything, and they usually call each other funny names, like you and The Wizard Guy were doing... connect the dots, will ya?

It's all very meta, I know. But let me have some fun in this wretched week, dammit. (Althought I'm sure Oklahoma people are having it much worse; my condolences to you all).

[deLurch]

However, the flipside is that other people have the prerogative of interpretation. They determine the narrative, and they frame the reactions to it and they make the demands, while they are seemingly beyond criticism. They are the judges so to speak.

I think it can be a useful debate tactic. If someone if flailing around insisting your stand for something that has nothing to do with you, go ahead and strongly denounce such behaviors, and move the discussion back to more productive grounds as their big beef has been deflated. On the flip side, it does help to reinforce their negative. I guess the cost/benefit of that situation is how well you debate the other issues at hand and move the discussion back on course.

As far as Silverman goes, I personally think he made an error. He wasn't trying to move a debate back on course. Now that he has the attention of the SJWarriers, they will be expecting him to toe the line every step of the way. Any slip up in their expectations of his purity, leaves him two steps away from being their witch-of-the-week. It has bitten way too many good people in the ass. The only way to win is not to play.