Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[skepandsprinkles]

How long until I get hate mail?

[bovarchist]

An enormous confetti bomb of white privilege and transphobia has exploded through my entire life in the past week, and as I’ve been doing a lot of pretty important writing about it, I’d like to share some of it with you here. There are two core issues at work here. The first concerns SlutWalk, and the second concerns the environmental movement. In both cases, the best of the worst of white privilege and transphobia have precipitated. All in one week! If you’re having a bad day, I’d advise against reading this post until you’re in better spirits. ...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... -of-jamie/
http://www.freezepage.com/1369254487JXLTCNXKDS

I know how he feels. I've been cracking a lot of really important jokes about it lately.

[deLurch]

If you are not a feminist presumably you do not believe women are fully equal to men.

Isn't this just the femistazi equivalent of the old "Oh, so you believe in nothing then?" retort when you tell some religious person that you're an atheist?

In other words, the response of a thoroughly dishonest fuckwit.

I view it more along the lines of "If you are not Christian, you have no morals."

Ironically this woman is an Atheist. How many times do you think she has seen dismissive disingenuous lines like that from Christians about the contents of her character, yet here she dishes out the feminist parallel.

[Gefan]

Jeebus fucking keerist The Fish-head has another 5000 words or so up at Crommie's. I can't exactly tell what the fuck he's talking about except it basically seems that "Slutwalk" is racist because indigenous peoples suffer more sexual violence so whitey can't reclaim the word because it was never theirs in the first place? And one of the organizers used to be Fishface's roommate and is totes racist. Or something.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... 00x300.jpg

An enormous confetti bomb of white privilege and transphobia has exploded through my entire life in the past week, and as I’ve been doing a lot of pretty important writing about it, I’d like to share some of it with you here. There are two core issues at work here. The first concerns SlutWalk, and the second concerns the environmental movement. In both cases, the best of the worst of white privilege and transphobia have precipitated. All in one week! If you’re having a bad day, I’d advise against reading this post until you’re in better spirits. ...

If you're having a good day, I'd advise against reading the post until you're feeling properly out of sorts. It's like rocks in a blender.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... -of-jamie/
http://www.freezepage.com/1369254487JXLTCNXKDS

I look at that photo and I can't believe it isn't some character off of Saturday Night Live.

[justinvacula]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-549413

great1american1satan
May 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
Vacula bothers me pretty badly, but at this point I’m far more disturbed by the blithe indifference or tacit support for evil from people like Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer, now Lindsay, etc etc. It’s that stuff that makes me feel like organized atheism doesn’t care about the oppressed, disadvantaged, and so on. It’s that kind of crap that tells me all their talk about women in Afghanistan suffering under Islam is precisely equivalent to a xtian going on about African babies while starving American blacks with gutted social programs and anti-tax policies.

[AndrewV69]

Huh. They have rednecks in Canada. Who knew?
I count at least one "Molson Mullett".

Well, having spent time hunting out in the countryside in Ontario I can tell you that they are not necessarily the type of "rednecks" you may find in other places. They may share certain attributes in terms of education and employment opportunities but I have generally found them to be fairly laid back, inclusive and non-judgemental of "city slickers" like myself.

[Whig]

A member of the Turkish ruling party called for the annihilation of atheists on twitter. My gut tells me this is chaff to distract from the fact that their PM did a 180 on their Syrian policy when he was in Washington last week.



http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/akp-me ... sCatID=341

Yeah, good luck with that...

Yeah, but I guess they gotta try something to keep the rabid types occupied.

[winston smith]

I just caught up with the David Silverman & Justin Vacula twitter conversation, and I must say I'm disappointed. It would have been better for everyone concerned if David Silverman kept out of all this nonsense.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Silverman on twitter is attempting to manoeuvre vacula into concession, with an argument so full of holes, it's one big gaping vacuum.

Did you mean "vacuumla"? :rimshot:

Ok, off to bed.

[welch]

Jeebus fucking keerist The Fish-head has another 5000 words or so up at Crommie's. I can't exactly tell what the fuck he's talking about except it basically seems that "Slutwalk" is racist because indigenous peoples suffer more sexual violence so whitey can't reclaim the word because it was never theirs in the first place? And one of the organizers used to be Fishface's roommate and is totes racist. Or something.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... 00x300.jpg

An enormous confetti bomb of white privilege and transphobia has exploded through my entire life in the past week, and as I’ve been doing a lot of pretty important writing about it, I’d like to share some of it with you here. There are two core issues at work here. The first concerns SlutWalk, and the second concerns the environmental movement. In both cases, the best of the worst of white privilege and transphobia have precipitated. All in one week! If you’re having a bad day, I’d advise against reading this post until you’re in better spirits. ...

If you're having a good day, I'd advise against reading the post until you're feeling properly out of sorts. It's like rocks in a blender.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... -of-jamie/
http://www.freezepage.com/1369254487JXLTCNXKDS

Never give an idiot a microphone. It's like crack for morons.

[codelette]

I love it, at the end all this is a fight between good and evil...why did those clowns leave church?

[Lsuoma]

Jeebus fucking keerist The Fish-head has another 5000 words or so up at Crommie's. I can't exactly tell what the fuck he's talking about except it basically seems that "Slutwalk" is racist because indigenous peoples suffer more sexual violence so whitey can't reclaim the word because it was never theirs in the first place? And one of the organizers used to be Fishface's roommate and is totes racist. Or something.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... 00x300.jpg

An enormous confetti bomb of white privilege and transphobia has exploded through my entire life in the past week, and as I’ve been doing a lot of pretty important writing about it, I’d like to share some of it with you here. There are two core issues at work here. The first concerns SlutWalk, and the second concerns the environmental movement. In both cases, the best of the worst of white privilege and transphobia have precipitated. All in one week! If you’re having a bad day, I’d advise against reading this post until you’re in better spirits. ...

If you're having a good day, I'd advise against reading the post until you're feeling properly out of sorts. It's like rocks in a blender.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... -of-jamie/
http://www.freezepage.com/1369254487JXLTCNXKDS

I look at that photo and I can't believe it isn't some character off of Saturday Night Live.

I thought it was the Ginger Führer (google it...)

[Apples]

I look at that photo and I can't believe it isn't some character off of Saturday Night Live.

Shit - I literally had exactly the same thought -- like a headshot of a self-mocking comedian showcasing his character 'Stinkeye.'

[agarybuseychristmas]

[quote=welch]IT REALLY IS STALINISM!!!!!!!OMG!!!!![/quote]

So is your beef that the article had a dumb godwinning title or something? The article itself seems to hold up pretty well.

[codelette]

If Haifish is a man now, isn't "mansplaining" telling the Slutwalk feminists what to do?
Check your privilege, fishie.

[Cunt of Personality]

Who the fuck is David Silverman? Is he some kind of Atheist Pope or something? I'm a bit worried by this, do his powers of excommunication extend to Europe?

[welch]

IT REALLY IS STALINISM!!!!!!!OMG!!!!!

So is your beef that the article had a dumb godwinning title or something? The article itself seems to hold up pretty well.

The title was the least of the godwinning in that badly written mess. The goebbels and hitler bits do a far better job of that.

[JackSkeptic]

How long until I get hate mail?

Very nice thanks:)

[Whig]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-549413

great1american1satan
May 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
Vacula bothers me pretty badly, but at this point I’m far more disturbed by the blithe indifference or tacit support for evil from people like Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer, now Lindsay, etc etc. It’s that stuff that makes me feel like organized atheism doesn’t care about the oppressed, disadvantaged, and so on. It’s that kind of crap that tells me all their talk about women in Afghanistan suffering under Islam is precisely equivalent to a xtian going on about African babies while starving American blacks with gutted social programs and anti-tax policies.

Have I missed parts where the FTBullies go on about big social policies?

[DW Adams]

How long until I get hate mail?

I really liked this video. Nice work.

[JackSkeptic]

I love it, at the end all this is a fight between good and evil...why did those clowns leave church?

They didn't.

[Apples]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-549413

great1american1satan
May 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
Vacula bothers me pretty badly, but at this point I’m far more disturbed by the blithe indifference or tacit support for evil from people like Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer, now Lindsay, etc etc. It’s that stuff that makes me feel like organized atheism doesn’t care about the oppressed, disadvantaged, and so on. It’s that kind of crap that tells me all their talk about women in Afghanistan suffering under Islam is precisely equivalent to a xtian going on about African babies while starving American blacks with gutted social programs and anti-tax policies.

Have I missed parts where the FTBullies go on about big social policies?

Rich people should be gutted and their assets distributed to the poor. Everyone will get their own blog and a pair of fluevogs and once the remaining wealth is distributed we will all watch b-movies and tweet our reactions until we starve to death and return the earth to the deserving non-sexist animals.

[rpguest]

If you are not a feminist presumably you do not believe women are fully equal to men.

Isn't this just the femistazi equivalent of the old "Oh, so you believe in nothing then?" retort when you tell some religious person that you're an atheist?

In other words, the response of a thoroughly dishonest fuckwit.

If I were into twitter wars, I'd ask her if she's an MRA, since not being an MRA would indicate that she doesn't believe men are fully equal to women. But Justicar is doing a fine job debating her, IMO.

substantially good conversation actually. surprising on twitter.

of course she is being an anti-feminist women-hating sister-punishing slymepitter by just by engaging with him.

according to some

[Trophy]

HaifischGeweint makes me groan a lot. But if you read his blog, it's clear that he has a pretty damn hard life so I also feel a lot of sympathy too.

And also, it seems he's transman not a transwoman. Not that it makes any difference to his arguments.

[skepandsprinkles]

How long until I get hate mail?

I really liked this video. Nice work.

Baww, thanks guys

[Remick]

HaifischGeweint makes me groan a lot. But if you read his blog, it's clear that he has a pretty damn hard life so I also feel a lot of sympathy too.

And also, it seems he's transman not a transwoman. Not that it makes any difference to his arguments.

Half-Fish Mcbites is just an idiot. I am sure some of the difficulties in Xir life is from being trans, but just as many or more are from being an idiot.


BTW, just caught up yesterday and today after being away for a few weeks. Amazing stuff at WISC. When the inmates run the asylum, they turn on each other pretty fast, no? Props to justin for not fucking up. Though I think you are still prone to. Jokes don't work often for you bud, some people are just funny, some are not. You often fuck up the most when you are trying to make a joke. Play it strait, plenty of us do.

[Saint N.]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-549413

great1american1satan
May 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
Vacula bothers me pretty badly, but at this point I’m far more disturbed by the blithe indifference or tacit support for evil from people like Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer, now Lindsay, etc etc. It’s that stuff that makes me feel like organized atheism doesn’t care about the oppressed, disadvantaged, and so on. It’s that kind of crap that tells me all their talk about women in Afghanistan suffering under Islam is precisely equivalent to a xtian going on about African babies while starving American blacks with gutted social programs and anti-tax policies.

Yeah, unlike the FTB bloggers that Dawkins never does anything for the disadvantaged. All that money raised for victim's of disasters by RDF's Nonbelievers Giving Aid campaigns pale in comparison to all the life changing blogging and speaking tours the 'oh so socially conscious' FTB crowd is charitable giving to the downtrodden of society. :roll:

[Dick Strawkins]

How long until I get hate mail?

Great video :clap:

[JayTeeAitch]

I see Silverman has taken Vacula up on his offer:

https://twitter.com/justinvacula/status ... 6179948545

Cue backlash and then backpeddle...

[Clarence]

It's also a useful point in how shitty writing can fuck a perfectly good point.

You might want to look at this:
http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/201 ... ainst.html

The acceptance of domestic violence in society in the past is a huge myth. Yes, it was easy for people (women esp) to fall through the cracks because of lack of support services or money (esp when divorce was hard and you needed to prove cause though cruelty WAS considered legitimate cause for divorce) or isolation - many of our ancestors lived on farms , miles away from neighbors or towns. But there's a difference between that kind of neglect and active social approval. Nowadays its swung so far in the opposite direction that one can almost be jailed for a grab and a family broken up and all against the wishes of the purported victim - http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2 ... -dismissed

This kind of thing , like 'strict liability' age of consent laws is neither fair nor rational and it gives totalitarians of all stripes plenty of power to do incalcuable damage both to innocent men and women and even ones who are merely guilty of very mild stuff. We'd be better off offering tons of voluntary support services for men and women, and giving judges more discretion to order treatment or punishment for the cases that do make it to court. And I maintain that mild stuff -shoves, insults, grabs, slammed doors... should never make it to the criminal justice system.

Now , you are right about the 'stalinism' thing, though I might want to remind you that every single totalitarian ideology ever has messed with the family and our society does that in so many ways, up to and including telling divorced or separated parents how often they can send letters to their own children.[/quote]

So i'm right about stalinism being stupid, except for the parts where it's totally like stalin?

Dude, do you even begin to see the problems with how you tried to make that point?

You say:

The acceptance of domestic violence in society in the past is a huge myth. Yes, it was easy for people (women esp) to fall through the cracks because of lack of support services or money (esp when divorce was hard and you needed to prove cause though cruelty WAS considered legitimate cause for divorce) or isolation - many of our ancestors lived on farms , miles away from neighbors or towns. But there's a difference between that kind of neglect and active social approval. Nowadays its swung so far in the opposite direction that one can almost be jailed for a grab and a family broken up and all against the wishes of the purported victim - http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2 ... -dismissed

well, let's take a look at your source.

Okay. Let's take an easy one, marital rape. Up until the 1970s, marital rape wasn't a crime. In the US, the first state to not preclude the prosecution of a spouse for rape was South Dakota in 1975. Here, from the NYT in 1987:

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/13/us/ma ... essed.html

That's not a myth. That is fairly bald facts that in the united states, prior to 1975, and really up until 1993 when North Carolina finally removed the spousal exception to rape, a husband could not rape his wife. If she said "no, i don't want to have sex tonight, and he forced her, that was completely legal.

Note that it's still pretty fucked up. For example, in many states, the only way to prosecute a spouse for rape is if it is a violent rape. If the husband roofies her, and then has sex, that's totes okey-dokey. In South Carolina, the victim only has 30 days to report, and according to their law,

(A) Sexual battery, as defined in Section 16-3-651(h), when accomplished through use of aggravated force, defined as the use or the threat of use of a weapon or the use or threat of use of physical force or physical violence of a high and aggravated nature, by one spouse against the other spouse if they are living together, constitutes the felony of spousal sexual battery and, upon conviction, a person must be imprisoned not more than ten years.

You use a source that makes a highly specific claim, one that it takes less than ten minutes to find refuting data for. As I point out to andrew, you need to review your sources mo' betta.

It's clearly not a myth. Has it been perhaps overstated to make it sound like in the old days, you could just cock-slap your wife in public and everyone applauded? All too often, yes. But that doesn't make it a myth. That makes it overstated by some groups. Kind of like how AVfM overstates things.

This kind of thing , like 'strict liability' age of consent laws is neither fair nor rational and it gives totalitarians of all stripes plenty of power to do incalcuable damage both to innocent men and women and even ones who are merely guilty of very mild stuff. We'd be better off offering tons of voluntary support services for men and women, and giving judges more discretion to order treatment or punishment for the cases that do make it to court. And I maintain that mild stuff -shoves, insults, grabs, slammed doors... should never make it to the criminal justice system.

The laws can always be revised and reviewed for fairness and better equality. However, there's a way to actually do that, and shitty writing on AVfM is none of them.


1. I meant that in the context of SPAIN you were correct about the use or misuse of "Stalinism". However, I did point out other areas that arguably are more appropriate.
2. Your understanding of marital rape is pretty simplistic. But let me put it to you very bluntly: right now MEN in America can be raped and it will not be counted as rape. This includes marriages, but is not limited to them:

http://www.genderratic.com/p/2551/male- ... existence/
http://www.genderratic.com/p/2847/male- ... al-errors/
And that sort of thing is not even just limited to the US but is pretty much world-wide, including countries such as India which currently defines rape as something men do to women and not something men do to men, women to women, or women to men. I don't see the 'outrage'.
3. You didn't really deal with my link. My link pointed out that DOMESTIC VIOLENCE was not something that it was legal for a man to perform and that our ancestors took it pretty damn seriously indeed. You haven't provided any proof against my link.

My link does have something to say about "Marital Rape" laws though: if a man used FORCE to have sex with his wife he could at least be prosecuted for using that force, even if he couldn't be prosecuted for a sex crime. This is far different than what you seem to believe the laws were.

Nowadays we've "progressed" so much that technically a man (not a woman, remember forced envelopment doesn't count) has to worry about if he withdrew fast enough after she changed her mind in the act of coitus five years prior, and will she bring it up during the divorce?

Yeah...progress. Luckily most people DO take into account prior sexual history and consent, but I'm willing to bet that at least one man (The MRA's would say William Hetherington) was in jail for a marital rape he didn't even commit.

[Clarence]

Well, I totes couldn't edit my post :(
It had too many embedded links, alas, I removed too many.
*grumble*

[Angry_Drunk]

Lsuoma, you should really link that "edit" button to a page displaying the following:


USE THE FUCKING PREVIEW BUTTON YOU GORMLESS TWAT!!

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... ent-549413

great1american1satan
May 22, 2013 at 1:35 pm (UTC -7) Link to this comment
Vacula bothers me pretty badly, but at this point I’m far more disturbed by the blithe indifference or tacit support for evil from people like Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer, now Lindsay, etc etc. It’s that stuff that makes me feel like organized atheism doesn’t care about the oppressed, disadvantaged, and so on. It’s that kind of crap that tells me all their talk about women in Afghanistan suffering under Islam is precisely equivalent to a xtian going on about African babies while starving American blacks with gutted social programs and anti-tax policies.

Have I missed parts where the FTBullies go on about big social policies?

Rich people should be gutted and their assets distributed to the poor. Everyone will get their own blog and a pair of fluevogs and once the remaining wealth is distributed we will all watch b-movies and tweet our reactions until we starve to death and return the earth to the deserving non-sexist animals.

Apart from bears; the male ones won't let the females buy Fluevogs, or something.

[sacha]

HaifischGeweint makes me groan a lot. But if you read his blog, it's clear that he has a pretty damn hard life so I also feel a lot of sympathy too.

unbelievable.

[Clarence]

Oh, the "Rape case" that chaps me more than anything else (besides false accusations and some *not all* statutory b.s?):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maouloud_B ... f_Maryland

It's not that I think it should be impossible to "withdraw consent".
But there has to be a reasonableness standard for the time and circumstances (5 seconds is a far cry from 50 seconds for example) and also a defense of knowledge.
My local didn't seem to set those, which means its only a matter of time until this comes up again.

[welch]

HaifischGeweint makes me groan a lot. But if you read his blog, it's clear that he has a pretty damn hard life so I also feel a lot of sympathy too.

And also, it seems he's transman not a transwoman. Not that it makes any difference to his arguments.

a rather significant chunk of his problems can be attributed to him being such a raging jerk.

[Apples]

Apart from bears; the male ones won't let the females buy Fluevogs, or something.

:lol:

[Gumby]

What was Ophelia thinking when she posted this?

A beseeching gesture this time

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterflies ... this-time/

http://i.imgur.com/DPiHpni.jpg

Cue another Bachmann hotdog incident?

http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/The_M ... g_Incident

What the actual hell?

The two do not even remotely resemble each other.

Brave Hero? more like Brave Idiot.

Your always complaining on how she is talking about you and here you are, trying to make shit up about her.

Concur with the above - "get a life" -

With Justin, it's always one step forward, two steps back.

[Gumby]

Like it or not, @elevatorgate has done a tremendous job in documenting, following, and calling out bullshit from #ftbullies. While I don't always like the style, you can't deny his amazing work. He ought to be honored with the hashtag and radio show bearing his moniker.

Wholeheartedly agree. I tire of people frowning down there noses at the guy. He is priceless. Unlike the people that shit on him, I have actually made the effort to contact him and speak with him - he knows what he's doing and he knows when to back off in regards to JREF and similar. You don't have to like him or thank him - but he does a job that needs doing. Stop shitting on him.

Fuck off and stop telling what my opinion should be and how I should express it. You're babooning.*

*not as irritated as I appear there, just sayin'.

[Gumby]

Like it or not, @elevatorgate has done a tremendous job in documenting, following, and calling out bullshit from #ftbullies. While I don't always like the style, you can't deny his amazing work. He ought to be honored with the hashtag and radio show bearing his moniker.

Wholeheartedly agree. I tire of people frowning down there noses at the guy. He is priceless. Unlike the people that shit on him, I have actually made the effort to contact him and speak with him - he knows what he's doing and he knows when to back off in regards to JREF and similar. You don't have to like him or thank him - but he does a job that needs doing. Stop shitting on him.

Yeah! HOW DARE WE DISAGREE WITH HIM!

:lol:

[codelette]

Please somebody remind me when was it that Eric The Bassist gave this place "the benefit of the doubt"?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/K6XDA1y.png[img]

He was pretty much condemning this place from his first post.

[codelette]

Please somebody remind me when was it that Eric The Bassist gave this place "the benefit of the doubt"?
http://i.imgur.com/K6XDA1y.png

He was pretty much condemning this place from his first post.

Fix that bitch up.

PS. eric, you are a cunt.

Regards,
A woman

[codelette]

Arghh: fixed.
Fuck me sideways, so many errors lately.

[curriejean]

Secular Woman has a little missive out slamming Lindsey, the CFI board, and Vacula.


http://www.secularwoman.org/Statement_of_Objection

Cripes! Question: Do these people have any grasp on reality what-so-ever and is this total misrepresentation of the truth intentional, or is their lens so skewed that they are truly only capable of seeing reality one way - even if it requires making shit up right out of thin air?

No wonder progress can't be made. The people you are trying to talk to are either certifiably insane or willful liars. Or maybe both. :doh:

Just a list of assertions based on a false analyses of what was actually said. Same as usual. The head of a skeptic organisation at a conference that pretends to be skeptical has every right to comment on skeptisism and the fact there are no sacred cows. If they don't like that tough luck. He did what his organisation was set up to do and he even has a duty to do it.

But they threw away any pretence at being skeptics long ago. It's embarrassing and shameful people like that are pretending to actually represent anyone in the community, male or female. With their uninformed, narcissist, and hysterical outbursts they are distracting from genuine issues.

Perhaps it might not be a bad idea for dissenting atheist women to set up an alternative secular women's group. The new group could compete with Secular Women, advocating a more egalitarian and humanistic point of view, rather than a dogmatic, gynocentric radical feminist perspective.

My first thought was that this would be great. My second thought was, "Would we call ourselves 'The Judean People's Front' or 'The People's Front of Judea'?" :think:

[bovarchist]

I see Silverman has taken Vacula up on his offer:

https://twitter.com/justinvacula/status ... 6179948545

Cue backlash and then backpeddle...

AAAAAARGH! PEDALLLLLL!

Spelling Nazi is Godwinning!!!!

[Scented Nectar]

Huh. They have rednecks in Canada. Who knew?
I count at least one "Molson Mullett".

Oh fucking right we got mulletts and rednecks, eh. :D However I usually hear the adjective Molson applied to penises instead of hairstyles. It's a condition that can happen if far, far, far too much Molson beer has been drunk, so much that they can't get an erection - called Molson Dick. :)

Near Toronto, our rednecks can sometimes be found in certain parts of town, but for the largest concentration are in most towns north of us, like Barrie or Sudbury. They have our version of rednecks. Speaking of Sudbury, here's the recently deceased Stompin' Tom Connors singing Sudbury Saturday Night. If you're not Canadian, you might not get the words. Inco is a big nickel mining company in Sudbury.

[youtube]sl751CDdRZI[/youtube]

[Gumby]

Like it or not, @elevatorgate has done a tremendous job in documenting, following, and calling out bullshit from #ftbullies. While I don't always like the style, you can't deny his amazing work. He ought to be honored with the hashtag and radio show bearing his moniker.

Wholeheartedly agree. I tire of people frowning down there noses at the guy. He is priceless. Unlike the people that shit on him, I have actually made the effort to contact him and speak with him - he knows what he's doing and he knows when to back off in regards to JREF and similar. You don't have to like him or thank him - but he does a job that needs doing. Stop shitting on him.

Yeah! HOW DARE WE DISAGREE WITH HIM!

Who said anything about agreeing with him? But I forget, you know what I mean better than I do.

Biggest difference with Elevatorgate is that while others just talk - he does. And gets under the skin of all the right people. He deserves more credit than just common smarmy disdain from theoretical baboon watchers.

He chooses to make himself more of a target for criticism (from either "side") by doing what he does. Just because he is against the baboons does not make him exempt from criticism or eye-rolling from the people here. Your "stop shitting on him" and "he deserves more credit [from pitters]" doesn't work here.

[deLurch]

Is the SPLC statement you quoted up anywhere? You should really stick that to them if it is.

It is hard to find. But is not necessarily all that favorable none-the-less since SPLC mulls over misogyny.
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2012/05/1 ... activists/

It should be mentioned that the SPLC did not label MRAs as members of a hate movement; nor did our article claim that the grievances they air on their websites – false rape accusations, ruinous divorce settlements and the like – are all without merit. But we did call out specific examples of misogyny and the threat, overt or implicit, of violence.

It is a long article, but worth the read if you want to get an overview of the tiff between A Voice for Men and the SPLC.

[Gumby]

Justin is taking a lot of flak in his twitter feed right now... Twitter is an awful medium to have any sort of discussion. It's more an hindrance than an enabler in many cases. It would probably be best to cease communication there for a while and write a blog post or something along the lines of that.

Trying to have meaningful dialogue on twitter is like trying to play hopscotch on graph paper.

[AndrewV69]

Liveleak: Beheading in Woolwich, UK - British Soldier Dead


(h/t ShiaChat)

[Apples]

I see Silverman has taken Vacula up on his offer:

https://twitter.com/justinvacula/status ... 6179948545

Cue backlash and then backpeddle...

AAAAAARGH! PEDALLLLLL!

Spelling Nazi is Godwinning!!!!

Also - apropos of nothing, but I've seen it three times in the last week or so -- it's "toe the line," not "tow the line."

[AndrewV69]

Also 4,322 comments in the last 7 hours. Try sampling the comments just in the 1st page.

[deLurch]

Perhaps it might not be a bad idea for dissenting atheist women to set up an alternative secular women's group. The new group could compete with Secular Women, advocating a more egalitarian and humanistic point of view, rather than a dogmatic, gynocentric radical feminist perspective.

The problem there is there is no huge driving force for that as the Humanists pretty much have that covered, minus the whole getting rid of half the population.

[welch]

It's also a useful point in how shitty writing can fuck a perfectly good point.

You might want to look at this:
http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.com/201 ... ainst.html

The acceptance of domestic violence in society in the past is a huge myth. Yes, it was easy for people (women esp) to fall through the cracks because of lack of support services or money (esp when divorce was hard and you needed to prove cause though cruelty WAS considered legitimate cause for divorce) or isolation - many of our ancestors lived on farms , miles away from neighbors or towns. But there's a difference between that kind of neglect and active social approval. Nowadays its swung so far in the opposite direction that one can almost be jailed for a grab and a family broken up and all against the wishes of the purported victim - http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2 ... -dismissed

This kind of thing , like 'strict liability' age of consent laws is neither fair nor rational and it gives totalitarians of all stripes plenty of power to do incalcuable damage both to innocent men and women and even ones who are merely guilty of very mild stuff. We'd be better off offering tons of voluntary support services for men and women, and giving judges more discretion to order treatment or punishment for the cases that do make it to court. And I maintain that mild stuff -shoves, insults, grabs, slammed doors... should never make it to the criminal justice system.

Now , you are right about the 'stalinism' thing, though I might want to remind you that every single totalitarian ideology ever has messed with the family and our society does that in so many ways, up to and including telling divorced or separated parents how often they can send letters to their own children.

So i'm right about stalinism being stupid, except for the parts where it's totally like stalin?

Dude, do you even begin to see the problems with how you tried to make that point?

You say:

The acceptance of domestic violence in society in the past is a huge myth. Yes, it was easy for people (women esp) to fall through the cracks because of lack of support services or money (esp when divorce was hard and you needed to prove cause though cruelty WAS considered legitimate cause for divorce) or isolation - many of our ancestors lived on farms , miles away from neighbors or towns. But there's a difference between that kind of neglect and active social approval. Nowadays its swung so far in the opposite direction that one can almost be jailed for a grab and a family broken up and all against the wishes of the purported victim - http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2 ... -dismissed

well, let's take a look at your source.

Okay. Let's take an easy one, marital rape. Up until the 1970s, marital rape wasn't a crime. In the US, the first state to not preclude the prosecution of a spouse for rape was South Dakota in 1975. Here, from the NYT in 1987:

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/05/13/us/ma ... essed.html

That's not a myth. That is fairly bald facts that in the united states, prior to 1975, and really up until 1993 when North Carolina finally removed the spousal exception to rape, a husband could not rape his wife. If she said "no, i don't want to have sex tonight, and he forced her, that was completely legal.

Note that it's still pretty fucked up. For example, in many states, the only way to prosecute a spouse for rape is if it is a violent rape. If the husband roofies her, and then has sex, that's totes okey-dokey. In South Carolina, the victim only has 30 days to report, and according to their law,

(A) Sexual battery, as defined in Section 16-3-651(h), when accomplished through use of aggravated force, defined as the use or the threat of use of a weapon or the use or threat of use of physical force or physical violence of a high and aggravated nature, by one spouse against the other spouse if they are living together, constitutes the felony of spousal sexual battery and, upon conviction, a person must be imprisoned not more than ten years.

You use a source that makes a highly specific claim, one that it takes less than ten minutes to find refuting data for. As I point out to andrew, you need to review your sources mo' betta.

It's clearly not a myth. Has it been perhaps overstated to make it sound like in the old days, you could just cock-slap your wife in public and everyone applauded? All too often, yes. But that doesn't make it a myth. That makes it overstated by some groups. Kind of like how AVfM overstates things.

This kind of thing , like 'strict liability' age of consent laws is neither fair nor rational and it gives totalitarians of all stripes plenty of power to do incalcuable damage both to innocent men and women and even ones who are merely guilty of very mild stuff. We'd be better off offering tons of voluntary support services for men and women, and giving judges more discretion to order treatment or punishment for the cases that do make it to court. And I maintain that mild stuff -shoves, insults, grabs, slammed doors... should never make it to the criminal justice system.

The laws can always be revised and reviewed for fairness and better equality. However, there's a way to actually do that, and shitty writing on AVfM is none of them.

1. I meant that in the context of SPAIN you were correct about the use or misuse of "Stalinism". However, I did point out other areas that arguably are more appropriate.
2. Your understanding of marital rape is pretty simplistic. But let me put it to you very bluntly: right now MEN in America can be raped and it will not be counted as rape. This includes marriages, but is not limited to them:

http://www.genderratic.com/p/2551/male- ... existence/
http://www.genderratic.com/p/2847/male- ... al-errors/
And that sort of thing is not even just limited to the US but is pretty much world-wide, including countries such as India which currently defines rape as something men do to women and not something men do to men, women to women, or women to men. I don't see the 'outrage'.
3. You didn't really deal with my link. My link pointed out that DOMESTIC VIOLENCE was not something that it was legal for a man to perform and that our ancestors took it pretty damn seriously indeed. You haven't provided any proof against my link.

My link does have something to say about "Marital Rape" laws though: if a man used FORCE to have sex with his wife he could at least be prosecuted for using that force, even if he couldn't be prosecuted for a sex crime. This is far different than what you seem to believe the laws were.

Nowadays we've "progressed" so much that technically a man (not a woman, remember forced envelopment doesn't count) has to worry about if he withdrew fast enough after she changed her mind in the act of coitus five years prior, and will she bring it up during the divorce?

Yeah...progress. Luckily most people DO take into account prior sexual history and consent, but I'm willing to bet that at least one man (The MRA's would say William Hetherington) was in jail for a marital rape he didn't even commit.

Fixing epic quote fail...

1. I meant that in the context of SPAIN you were correct about the use or misuse of "Stalinism". However, I did point out other areas that arguably are more appropriate.

to what, Stalinism? Hardly. FUD about THIS IS WHAT TEH TOTALITARIAN SOCIETIES DO is just that...fud. Same thing used against any politician doing anything someone somewhere doesn't like. First it's <policy> then it's hitler/stalin/mao.

2. Your understanding of marital rape is pretty simplistic. But let me put it to you very bluntly: right now MEN in America can be raped and it will not be counted as rape. This includes marriages, but is not limited to them:

http://www.genderratic.com/p/2551/male- ... existence/
http://www.genderratic.com/p/2847/male- ... al-errors/
And that sort of thing is not even just limited to the US but is pretty much world-wide, including countries such as India which currently defines rape as something men do to women and not something men do to men, women to women, or women to men. I don't see the 'outrage'.

My understanding of marital rape is simplistic because it's a fairly simple concept: spouse A want sex, spouse be does not. Spouse A coerces or forces Spouse B to give them sex. This is not complicated. String theory is complicated. Sasha Grey's sexual history is complicated. This is not. But, nice of you to pull out both the "since you don't agree with me, CLEARLY you don't understand the problem" AND "other people do bad stuff too, so what you talked about is okay" tropes. Neither of those links disprove that in the US prior to the 70s, a wife was unable to deny her husband sex, because he could just take that shit, and walk away clean.

In addition the "well in other countries, you can ass-rape women with a yak's horn" shit still doesn't disprove anything. I mean, it's a nice attempt at distraction, but it still doesn't disprove what I stated, which shows that your "point" about societal approval of violence against women in the past in the US is a myth to be malarky. What goes on in India is indeed horrible, but that doesn't change that you're still wrong.

3. You didn't really deal with my link. My link pointed out that DOMESTIC VIOLENCE was not something that it was legal for a man to perform and that our ancestors took it pretty damn seriously indeed. You haven't provided any proof against my link.

A husband legally able to rape his wife is not "domestic violence". You're really going to try to make that case?

My link does have something to say about "Marital Rape" laws though: if a man used FORCE to have sex with his wife he could at least be prosecuted for using that force, even if he couldn't be prosecuted for a sex crime. This is far different than what you seem to believe the laws were.

Bless your stupid little heart, you are in fact going to try to make that case. From the link I provided:

A month after Rosanna Hawkins filed for divorce in Michigan in 1981, her estranged husband broke into the house where she was staying and in more than an hour of what she said was total terror, raped her. Her husband, Eugene, who had been armed with a six-inch knife, was convicted in Oceana County Circuit Court in 1982 and sentenced to 27 years to 92 years in prison.

Last February, however, the Michigan Court of Appeals voted 3 to 0 to overturn the conviction.

The court ruled that, legally speaking, Mrs. Hawkins could not have been ''raped'' by her husband because in Michigan it is not a crime for a man to sexually assault his wife unless they are living apart and one has filed for divorce. And Mrs. Hawkins's divorce filing was not valid because Michigan requires that a person be a resident for at least six months in order to file for a divorce; Mrs. Hawkins had moved back to the state only a week before she filed.

Now, let me restate this simply, because you appear to need things simple:

Eugene Hawkins broke into Rosanna Hawkins' house, and armed with a 6" knife, raped her. That, my dear, dear, preciously stupid person, is in fact using force. What happened next? Well the lower court did the sensible thing and sentenced him to many, many years in prison. Until the Michigan court of appeals then *unanimously* overturned his conviction. Why? Because as it turned out, in michigan, at the time, what he did wasn't illegal.

Here's a funny thing that had you done any research, you'd have found that the MSC remanded the case back to the Mich. Court of appeals for reconsideration of issues.

I can't find any other data on it, but I'm not a lawyer, I could be searching poorly. SO the final disposition of the case? Dunno.

In any event, in what world is the rape of a spouse not domestic violence? What, he says please first?

Nowadays we've "progressed" so much that technically a man (not a woman, remember forced envelopment doesn't count) has to worry about if he withdrew fast enough after she changed her mind in the act of coitus five years prior, and will she bring it up during the divorce?

Yeah...progress. Luckily most people DO take into account prior sexual history and consent, but I'm willing to bet that at least one man (The MRA's would say William Hetherington) was in jail for a marital rape he didn't even commit

neither of those two points disprove that this country had a history of legally allowed spousal abuse by men towards women. Which means it was not a myth.

The fact you tried to make rape separate from domestic violence is quite frankly, fucking appalling.

[welch]

Lsuoma, you should really link that "edit" button to a page displaying the following:


USE THE FUCKING PREVIEW BUTTON YOU GORMLESS TWAT!!

I fixed his quote breakdown in my reply. Preview buttons, HOW THE FUCK DO THEY WORK?

[katamari Damassi]

Why would PZ et al suggest a white man for CFI CEO, why not take this 'opportunity' to promote a woman or other member of an underrepresented group?

Melody Hensley, the executive director of CFI-DC, perhaps?

(or, if they have and I missed it, pointer would be appreciated)

White woman (yawn). I will accept nothing short of a handicapable, genderqueer of color.

[welch]

Oh, the "Rape case" that chaps me more than anything else (besides false accusations and some *not all* statutory b.s?):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maouloud_B ... f_Maryland

It's not that I think it should be impossible to "withdraw consent".
But there has to be a reasonableness standard for the time and circumstances (5 seconds is a far cry from 50 seconds for example) and also a defense of knowledge.
My local didn't seem to set those, which means its only a matter of time until this comes up again.

So if a woman starts pegging you, and you're not into it, and say stop, if you don't say stop soon enough, she can just tear that shit up, and hey, sucks to be you?

You know, I've bagged on Andrew a lot. But honestly, compared to the idiocy you push, he's a Rhodes Fucking Scholar. I've never seen him talk HALF as stupid as you've managed to.

[welch]

Please somebody remind me when was it that Eric The Bassist gave this place "the benefit of the doubt"?
http://i.imgur.com/K6XDA1y.png

He was pretty much condemning this place from his first post.

Fix that bitch up.

PS. eric, you are a cunt.

Regards,
A woman

he was "shaking"? Fuck, how does princess even get out of bed in the morning?

[BarnOwl]

I look at that photo and I can't believe it isn't some character off of Saturday Night Live.

This one, maybe?

http://www.robsingleton.com/wp-content/ ... harry2.jpg

Massive Self-induced Headpiercing Half-fish.

[KiwiInOz]

Like it or not, @elevatorgate has done a tremendous job in documenting, following, and calling out bullshit from #ftbullies. While I don't always like the style, you can't deny his amazing work. He ought to be honored with the hashtag and radio show bearing his moniker.

Wholeheartedly agree. I tire of people frowning down there noses at the guy. He is priceless. Unlike the people that shit on him, I have actually made the effort to contact him and speak with him - he knows what he's doing and he knows when to back off in regards to JREF and similar. You don't have to like him or thank him - but he does a job that needs doing. Stop shitting on him.

Agree.

Although I suspect that Justin swims in 55 gallons of lube every morning, because the shit just slips off him and he keeps on smiling.