Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

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Wonderist
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10561

Post by Wonderist »

cunt wrote:
Wonderist wrote:Jack making a good point about 'redress'. I think, personally, that that's got to be one of the main foundations of reasonable dialogue. Drawing a blank, help me out: Isn't there some law-related thing about there being a right to have grievances heard and redressed by the government? Is that the US? All western countries? Constitutions? Common Law? Where does that come from?
First amendment to the US constitution. I think you're confusing that with the "right of reply" though which actually isn't a right but more of a sop thrown by certain media publications entirely at their whim.
No. I can see how what I said could have come off that way, but actually I was thinking about the legal thing, being able to complain to the gov't about shit and having them have to address it (even if just to answer, no). The two are actually kind of related on a philosophical/principle/conceptual level. Basically, it stems from a concept of fairness. But I wanted the legal one because we're now (well, actually, I'm still behind, so this discussion is now old-ish (hours old, anyway)) discussing policy and process on Nugent's A proposed agenda... post.

Thanks for the info.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10562

Post by AbsurdWalls »

Pitchguest wrote:
justinvacula wrote:[youtube]k52Ld3cPKq0[/youtube]
She gets two people fired for a harmless joke and then she actually does this on twitter?



Wow.

If she's not fired for that joke, or the two guys reinstated and a public apology issued to them, that's disgusting.
That's different, she posted that to her friend. It just happened to be on the internet for everyone to see. Those two guys were at a tech conference... errr... talking to each other... and she overheard...

DeepInsideYourMind
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10563

Post by DeepInsideYourMind »

Spectacular ...
Black people CANNOT be racist against White people. Racism is a position of the oppressor who has the power

-Adria Richards
Amazing she was in a position as an evangelist with tweets like that ... not so surprising she is equally uninformed about women's rights and sexism

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10564

Post by AbsurdWalls »

cunt wrote:You guys are getting through to someone called Dan L? When's the parade?
One good idea religion had was that every single person matters.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10565

Post by Wonderist »

Some interesting and good points by Remick:
56 Remick March 20, 2013 at 5:59 pm

@ Doubtthat 25

“Again, this is perfectly fine, but no one is trying to create a progressive/libertarian “community,” or lamenting the fact that there’s disagreement. Sure, the groups can work together in specific, discreet situations, but it isn’t a unified “movement” or however the hell we’re describing the atheist/skeptical category.”

From what I can tell only a few people are trying to join feminism to Atheism/skepticism. Why is that any different. Do they belong together? Not really. But breaking down Religion’s influence on people, policy, education, and culture helps many of the goals of feminism, so of course they should be joined. Right? I mean, if something benefits feminism they should merge with feminism.

Look, some Atheists/Skeptics are Feminists, some are not. Breaking down people’s bigotry and racism and sexism that is rooted in religion is a great thing. Why not just let that happen on its own? If people can’t excuse their views with their religion, or if pointing to the bible(or whatever) as an answer becomes completely unacceptable in mainstream culture won’t that result in furthering the goals of Feminism, as well as many other isms?

@ 24 you said.

“No, you just want to be in control of defining which subjects are relevant to atheism and skepticism.”

I would suggest that the subjects that are relevant to atheism should be religion V. Secularism. It may happen that ATHEISM is relevant to FEMINISM, but that does not make the reverse true.

As to Skepticism, I have found that Feminists are no different than anyone else in the world. “I want everyone to be skeptical about positions with which I disagree”. Well, what about the positions you do agree with? Do you get that being part of a Skepticism movement means all of your beliefs, solutions, ideals, narratives, and goals are going to be put through the ringer in terms of being challenged in every which way. That is part of Skepticism. The people who put them through the ringer are NOT your enemy. They are helping you. We all need people who don’t immediately agree with us to help us past our confirmation bias. What many of us hate, is when anyone comes in and says “YOU SHOULD BE MORE SKEPTICAL OF X” then in the same breath says “DONT YOU DARE DOUBT Z OR YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM”.

It sounds to me like the feminists are the ones trying to tell everyone what can and can’t be part of feminism. I welcome feminism into skepticism circles as long as challenging it doesn’t automatically make one a misogynist, or any other -ist. Feminism, like all -isms, gets some stuff right, and some stuff wrong. Skeptics are just trying to find the stuff that is wrong. Don’t hate them for it.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10566

Post by Pitchguest »

Oh right, I should mention. Since I was in such a ruff last night about the stuff that happened with that woman, I forgot to say best wishes to Al. Take care of yourself, Al.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10567

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Yanbu wrote:
None of them seems to have even a basic understanding of how to extend their influence beyond their existing audience, and it's pretty clear that given brayton and PeeZus' business sense, that site lasting another year is at best 50-50. They're losing people on a steady level and no one there is really cranking out the traffic the way PeeZus used to on SciBlogs. They also just don't know how to create income for that site.
I have no inkling of blog economics. How much can you really make on a blog site? Back when PZ was cranking stuff out on SciBlogs he said at one point that he barely made beer money for it. Do you figure any of these people actually earn a living griping about misogynists and creationists? That would surprise the hell out of me.
John Loftus, just after he left FTB, had a post where he mentioned how much money he received for his blog hits there. It wasn't very much - not something you could live on - but it wasn't exactly nothing either. He mentioned that Peezus gets ten or twenty times the number of hits, which, at the same rate, would add up to something decent, perhaps a couple of thousand dollars per month. And that is just from FTB. He still has his old scienceblog which must be picking up a lot of hits from his old famous posts (Expelled, Crackergate, The Courtiers Reply etc) as well as his science posts.
I'd say that a conservative estimate for his blogging income would be two to three thousand dollars per month.
Most bloggers on FTB, however, get nowhere near the number of hits to make it financially viable as a major income source.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10568

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Submariner wrote:What's Phil on...?
It was mostly white rhum and freshly pressed orange juice (for the vitamins, you see?).

Skep tickle
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10569

Post by Skep tickle »

Submariner wrote:
Pitchguest wrote:
windy wrote:Eggshells, eggshells everywhere...

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... fy-myself/
Hahahaha, so his style of rhetoric is backfiring on him. Brilliant.
Wow, I can't stand PZ and even I read his statement more charitably than Melissa McEwan did.

Eggshells indeed.
Some of PZ's commentariat are fans of Shakesville and are trying to smooth the waters, several others call McEwan's response "sniping" and/or report on their less-than-favorable experiences & impressions of her site & style.

Caine says that "Annah Green" went on a rant about McEwan in another thread - I didn't find it in a quick half-assed search, but all in all it looks like there's another schism forming. Even though at this point, the claim that's gaining ground is that those damn MRAs poisoned the well, that's why McEwan interpreted PZ's comment the way she did. Sadly for PZ, that's probably too little, too late to save him from facing further wrath at Shakesville.

:popcorn:

Skep tickle
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10570

Post by Skep tickle »

Al,

I'm sending virtual (((hugs))) your way, even if you don't want them. You can file a complaint with the management if I've violated either the harassment policy here or your virtual personal space. :snooty:

Thanks for being an inspiration in several different ways, and a nice guy to boot. Hope those kidneys of yours start behaving themselves and that what sounds right now like a suspicion of cancer turns out to be a false alarm. :pray: ;)

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10571

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

karlaporter wrote:Hi - last time I was here we were on page 85 and today it's 141.. Whoa is me. I thought some of you might enjoy today's blog post at my professional site - Are Women Doing it Right? http://karlaporter.com/just-me/are-women-doing-it-right

If you are so inclined, leave me a comment to let me know you visited :) ~Karla
Hey Karla. I've been mentioned a couple of times on tweeter WRT some track of mine that was aired on the #bravehero podcast. Do you have any link to that particular episode?

Not lawyering up, I just like to get some context. ;)

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10572

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Jack wrote:Does anyone here Eristae over at Nugents may be a sock, troll or poe?
You accidentaly a verb, didnt you?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10573

Post by Philip of Tealand »

Al - you are one heck a hoopy frood and I am sorry life is being a total bastard to you right now, hope it somehow sorts itself out.

I see someone has got two chaps fired from their jobs for making rude jokes

Fuck me sideways with a prize winning flammable porcupine!

I and several of my female colleagues would be in jail right now if our rude jokes were put under such scrutiny! Dongles, hard drives, old floppys etc I work in IT, it would be difficult NO to be making naughty jokes! If I over-stepped the mark, the men and women would let me know about it!

But then to have the crapping cheek to turn around and make dick jokes and claim its different is a disgrace!

Give her hell Pitch, I share your outrage


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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10575

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Gefan wrote:Since we've brought up Joan of Arc (albeit by a thoroughly tortuous route). I had to post this.
Flawed movie that could probably have been better condensed down to this scene, but, oh, what a scene!

[youtube]Gf7YSlJReVM[/youtube]
I feel the need to defend my fellow (asshole) Frenchman:

What was flawed? I thought this was a great movie. 5th Element as well. and Taxi. and Leon, and...and... what was my point again?

Pitchguest
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10576

Post by Pitchguest »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
Gefan wrote:Since we've brought up Joan of Arc (albeit by a thoroughly tortuous route). I had to post this.
Flawed movie that could probably have been better condensed down to this scene, but, oh, what a scene!

[youtube]Gf7YSlJReVM[/youtube]
I feel the need to defend my fellow (asshole) Frenchman:

What was flawed? I thought this was a great movie. 5th Element as well. and Taxi. and Leon, and...and... what was my point again?
I think you got confused at the end there. (Natalie Portman was in Leon.) Just like Jeanne d'Arc! :rimshot:

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10577

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Pitchguest wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
I feel the need to defend my fellow (asshole) Frenchman:

What was flawed? I thought this was a great movie. 5th Element as well. and Taxi. and Leon, and...and... what was my point again?
I think you got confused at the end there. (Natalie Portman was in Leon.) Just like Jeanne d'Arc! :rimshot:
I am confused as to what I should be confused about...

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10578

Post by Michael J »

Yanbu wrote:
None of them seems to have even a basic understanding of how to extend their influence beyond their existing audience, and it's pretty clear that given brayton and PeeZus' business sense, that site lasting another year is at best 50-50. They're losing people on a steady level and no one there is really cranking out the traffic the way PeeZus used to on SciBlogs. They also just don't know how to create income for that site.
I have no inkling of blog economics. How much can you really make on a blog site? Back when PZ was cranking stuff out on SciBlogs he said at one point that he barely made beer money for it. Do you figure any of these people actually earn a living griping about misogynists and creationists? That would surprise the hell out of me.
I think that they could make very good money out of it but it would unfortunately takes work and that is a four letter word for these guys. I think Ed wants to spend 2 hours of day C&P from world nut daily and make a good living out of it. I think that Ed needs to change the site to more of a magazine format and spend 60 hours a week editing the site. The bloggers need to start to spend 40 hours a week writing decent copy for the site and get decent money for any articles that make the front page.
After 12 months Ed would start to make good money out of the site and be able to hire an editor and the writers that do write well would be making good money.

Phil_Giordana_FCD
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10579

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

Michael J wrote:
Yanbu wrote:
None of them seems to have even a basic understanding of how to extend their influence beyond their existing audience, and it's pretty clear that given brayton and PeeZus' business sense, that site lasting another year is at best 50-50. They're losing people on a steady level and no one there is really cranking out the traffic the way PeeZus used to on SciBlogs. They also just don't know how to create income for that site.
I have no inkling of blog economics. How much can you really make on a blog site? Back when PZ was cranking stuff out on SciBlogs he said at one point that he barely made beer money for it. Do you figure any of these people actually earn a living griping about misogynists and creationists? That would surprise the hell out of me.
I think that they could make very good money out of it but it would unfortunately takes work and that is a four letter word for these guys. I think Ed wants to spend 2 hours of day C&P from world nut daily and make a good living out of it. I think that Ed needs to change the site to more of a magazine format and spend 60 hours a week editing the site. The bloggers need to start to spend 40 hours a week writing decent copy for the site and get decent money for any articles that make the front page.
After 12 months Ed would start to make good money out of the site and be able to hire an editor and the writers that do write well would be making good money.
Haven't laughed so much since my SO tickled me this morning.

Thanks *dabs eyes*

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10580

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

AbsurdWalls wrote:
cunt wrote:You guys are getting through to someone called Dan L? When's the parade?
One good idea religion had was that every single person matters.
I wouldn't hang out any banners just yet. And wow! one person maybe slightly, possibly, maybe a little tiny bit persuaded we aren't all psycho killers.

At this rate, we can think of tea for two in about 500 years. Drop me a line when you're ready and I'll send around some cupcakes.

BarnOwl
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10581

Post by BarnOwl »

Accidentally stumbled across one of the A+theism mods while perusing Ravelry this morning. So far s/h/it seems prone to exaggeration about s/h/it's accomplishments, but not egregiously so.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10582

Post by BarnOwl »

AnonymousCowherd wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:
cunt wrote:You guys are getting through to someone called Dan L? When's the parade?
One good idea religion had was that every single person matters.
I wouldn't hang out any banners just yet. And wow! one person maybe slightly, possibly, maybe a little tiny bit persuaded we aren't all psycho killers.

At this rate, we can think of tea for two in about 500 years. Drop me a line when you're ready and I'll send around some cupcakes.
Speaking of cupcakes-
Ophelia wrote:

Aw. I got a present. A surprise present. It came in the mail.
Cupcakes! Fancy gourmet cupcakes from a fancy gourmet cupcake place.
As a surprise!
In the mail!
Unexpectedly!
Who sent me a present as a suprise in the mail unexpectedly as a surprise?
“Everyone at Skepchick”
Are they the best or what?!

Zenspace
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10583

Post by Zenspace »

Gefan wrote:Since we've brought up Joan of Arc (albeit by a thoroughly tortuous route). I had to post this.
Flawed movie that could probably have been better condensed down to this scene, but, oh, what a scene!

[youtube]Gf7YSlJReVM[/youtube]
Wow! What a scene, indeed. So much human history, experience and perception condensed within that.

One of my favorite quotes, etched into the back plate of my iPad:

"We don't see things as they are. We see things as we are." - Anais Nin

Za-zen
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10584

Post by Za-zen »

On that maladjusted egocentric, woe is me and my life, nutjob adria richards' twitter, the cuckolds are saying the worst thing about this mess, is the abuse poor adria is now getting.

No, no, it fucking isn't.

JayTeeAitch
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10585

Post by JayTeeAitch »

rocko2466 wrote:
Apples wrote:Finally catching up with the "forking and dongle" story from the Python Con. Interesting story. This is the blog of the offended "joke-overhearer" who sounded the alarm on the "brogrammers" sitting behind her who were, through their actions, apparently conspiring to suffocate all little-girl future-programmers in their playpens:

http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking- ... nferences/
tl;dr

SEX JOKES ARE NOT OK. BECAUSE SEX IS BAD. WOMEN HATE SEX SO PLEASE DO NOT MENTION IT.

Also, little girls. I saw a little girl and thought SHE'LL NEVER BE A DEVELOPER BECAUSE SOMEONE MIGHT MAKE A DONGLE SEX PUN. Because I'm not a developer because of sex puns, except I am. SEX JOKES ARE BAD.

(Fucking idiot)
She's seems to be under the impression that the girl will be as pathetic has she is when she hits the real world.

Since that blog post is easily one of the most pathetic things I've ever read, there's little chance that the girl will grow up to be as pathetic as the author.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10586

Post by Apples »

Percentage wrote:The whole McEwan thing is making me LOL. I mean Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, talk about uncharitable. If this were anything other than fucking FEMINISM, Peezus would be shrieking at the top of his lungs.

Not that I care, because fuck PZ, but it is hilarious to watch McEwan twist his words to mean... I'm not really clear what she thinks he was saying, actually. I guess she's pissed at the additional implication women should be decent human beings too?
Tip for PZ -- A good Internet femtheist is not supposed to have "reservations" about anything Melissa McEwan says or does.

Cunning Punt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10587

Post by Cunning Punt »

BarnOwl wrote:
Speaking of cupcakes-
Ophelia wrote:

Aw. I got a present. A surprise present. It came in the mail.
Cupcakes! Fancy gourmet cupcakes from a fancy gourmet cupcake place.
As a surprise!
In the mail!
Unexpectedly!
Who sent me a present as a suprise in the mail unexpectedly as a surprise?
“Everyone at Skepchick”
Are they the best or what?!
Could they be trying to tell her something?

Ericb
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10588

Post by Ericb »

Za-zen wrote:On that maladjusted egocentric, woe is me and my life, nutjob adria richards' twitter, the cuckolds are saying the worst thing about this mess, is the abuse poor adria is now getting.

No, no, it fucking isn't.
Bigmouth Strikes Again


[youtube]7FleOp_njaU[/youtube]

Karmakin
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10589

Post by Karmakin »

Apples wrote:
Percentage wrote:The whole McEwan thing is making me LOL. I mean Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, talk about uncharitable. If this were anything other than fucking FEMINISM, Peezus would be shrieking at the top of his lungs.

Not that I care, because fuck PZ, but it is hilarious to watch McEwan twist his words to mean... I'm not really clear what she thinks he was saying, actually. I guess she's pissed at the additional implication women should be decent human beings too?
Tip for PZ -- A good Internet femtheist is not supposed to have "reservations" about anything Melissa McEwan says or does.
It's funny to me because she's the final evolved state of what they're doing. All SJW work will evolve towards that attitude in the long run. They either might as well embrace it right now, or rethink what they're doing. Because they WILL get there eventually. Hell, the A+ forums are not that far off.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10590

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

TheMan wrote:and meanwhile in Australia...the Government in power is going through the process of a leadership spill. The second one in 3 years.
Hang in there. There'll be another one abut 12 months after Tony wins the next election.

justinvacula
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10591

Post by justinvacula »

Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:
karlaporter wrote:Hi - last time I was here we were on page 85 and today it's 141.. Whoa is me. I thought some of you might enjoy today's blog post at my professional site - Are Women Doing it Right? http://karlaporter.com/just-me/are-women-doing-it-right

If you are so inclined, leave me a comment to let me know you visited :) ~Karla
Hey Karla. I've been mentioned a couple of times on tweeter WRT some track of mine that was aired on the #bravehero podcast. Do you have any link to that particular episode?

Not lawyering up, I just like to get some context. ;)
I will add to the show notes - have mostly just been mentioning on air. Thanks!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10592

Post by AbsurdWalls »

AnonymousCowherd wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:
cunt wrote:You guys are getting through to someone called Dan L? When's the parade?
One good idea religion had was that every single person matters.
I wouldn't hang out any banners just yet. And wow! one person maybe slightly, possibly, maybe a little tiny bit persuaded we aren't all psycho killers.

At this rate, we can think of tea for two in about 500 years. Drop me a line when you're ready and I'll send around some cupcakes.
[youtube]yhwNxPs4pjQ[/youtube]

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10593

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Dick Strawkins wrote:
Yanbu wrote:
None of them seems to have even a basic understanding of how to extend their influence beyond their existing audience, and it's pretty clear that given brayton and PeeZus' business sense, that site lasting another year is at best 50-50. They're losing people on a steady level and no one there is really cranking out the traffic the way PeeZus used to on SciBlogs. They also just don't know how to create income for that site.
I have no inkling of blog economics. How much can you really make on a blog site? Back when PZ was cranking stuff out on SciBlogs he said at one point that he barely made beer money for it. Do you figure any of these people actually earn a living griping about misogynists and creationists? That would surprise the hell out of me.
John Loftus, just after he left FTB, had a post where he mentioned how much money he received for his blog hits there. It wasn't very much - not something you could live on - but it wasn't exactly nothing either. He mentioned that Peezus gets ten or twenty times the number of hits, which, at the same rate, would add up to something decent, perhaps a couple of thousand dollars per month. And that is just from FTB. He still has his old scienceblog which must be picking up a lot of hits from his old famous posts (Expelled, Crackergate, The Courtiers Reply etc) as well as his science posts.
I'd say that a conservative estimate for his blogging income would be two to three thousand dollars per month.
Most bloggers on FTB, however, get nowhere near the number of hits to make it financially viable as a major income source.
Bloody 'ell. How much beer does PZ drink? Or is it just for when special guests come around?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10594

Post by justinvacula »

http://teenskepchick.org/2013/03/20/evi ... epchick%29

Rape culture is not a claim - it is a noun! Checkmate skeptics! A writer for Teen Skepchick responds to a recent piece of mine...

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10595

Post by RichardReed84 »

Help! I'm trying to have a rational discussion about feminism and harassment policies over at the "Point of Inquiry" website (the one with Amanda Marcotte) but this one person keeps calling me a sexist and putting words in my mouth! What am I supposed to do? :)

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/amanda_ma ... -836152565

AnonymousCowherd
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10596

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Religious nutters - what can you do? I did wonder how the woman showed her children were "clearly Jewish".

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10597

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

BarnOwl wrote:
AnonymousCowherd wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:
cunt wrote:You guys are getting through to someone called Dan L? When's the parade?
One good idea religion had was that every single person matters.
I wouldn't hang out any banners just yet. And wow! one person maybe slightly, possibly, maybe a little tiny bit persuaded we aren't all psycho killers.

At this rate, we can think of tea for two in about 500 years. Drop me a line when you're ready and I'll send around some cupcakes.
Speaking of cupcakes-
Ophelia wrote:

Aw. I got a present. A surprise present. It came in the mail.
Cupcakes! Fancy gourmet cupcakes from a fancy gourmet cupcake place.
As a surprise!
In the mail!
Unexpectedly!
Who sent me a present as a suprise in the mail unexpectedly as a surprise?
“Everyone at Skepchick”
Are they the best or what?!
THE CUPCAKES ARE A LIE!

Apples
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10598

Post by Apples »

Karmakin wrote:
Apples wrote:
Percentage wrote:The whole McEwan thing is making me LOL. I mean Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, talk about uncharitable. If this were anything other than fucking FEMINISM, Peezus would be shrieking at the top of his lungs.

Not that I care, because fuck PZ, but it is hilarious to watch McEwan twist his words to mean... I'm not really clear what she thinks he was saying, actually. I guess she's pissed at the additional implication women should be decent human beings too?
Tip for PZ -- A good Internet femtheist is not supposed to have "reservations" about anything Melissa McEwan says or does.
It's funny to me because she's the final evolved state of what they're doing. All SJW work will evolve towards that attitude in the long run. They either might as well embrace it right now, or rethink what they're doing. Because they WILL get there eventually. Hell, the A+ forums are not that far off.
Gregory Greenwood, over at PZ's thread:
We need to understand why Melissa feels the way she does, and to respect her stance. At the same time, we need to be careful to avoid a situation where MRAs succeed in ‘poisoning the well’ by creating such suspicion that a single poorly chosen word can lead to a level of accusation and mistrust that could potentially make constructive discourse difficult between people who actually share similar viewpoints and would under other circumstances be natural allies.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-583670

That's right, Gregory - we wouldn't want any nasty "MRAs" to succeed in creating the suspicion that the world is round.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10599

Post by CommanderTuvok »

Adria Richards got two sacked?

Greg Laden is currently yanking out his pubic hair, out of jealousy!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10600

Post by Apples »

RichardReed84 wrote:Help! I'm trying to have a rational discussion about feminism and harassment policies over at the "Point of Inquiry" website (the one with Amanda Marcotte) but this one person keeps calling me a sexist and putting words in my mouth! What am I supposed to do? :)

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/amanda_ma ... -836152565
Jumping in with "it is near impossible to have a rational discussion with feminists" on a comment thread about Amanda Marcotte is a pretty big opening bet. Maybe you should double down - you might get rich!

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10601

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Dilurk wrote:
I had to back out of the slymepit for a few weeks, no one noticed but a few of you on here know why.

Some of what is going on is clearly similar to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feud. We keep taking snipes at each other instead of sitting down and discussing.

Even Jen Hancock talks about when to walk away and when to stand up for oneself in Justin and Karl's excellent blogcast http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bravehero/ ... e-bullying

It's going to be very hard.
FWIW Dilurk, I did wonder where you'd gotten to (and a couple of others). Was it something we said?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10602

Post by justinvacula »

Speaking of Jen Hancock, the #BraveHero released a pretty good piece:

http://bullyvaccineproject.com/finding- ... n-outcast/
Being an outcast – to me implies freedom. Complete freedom. I don’t have to care what other people think – they have already decided to not embrace me. So I might as well do what I like to do and be the person I like to be. The freedom that comes from being an outcast is amazing and totally better than trying to be someone else so that you can fit in.

The other thing I would say is this. Standing alone requires courage. Being an outcast requires courage. That’s why the fear comes up and that’s why so few people are able to do that. They are too fearful. Feel proud that you are facing your fears to stand alone, because those who don’t are too afraid to follow, and they deserve our pity.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10603

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Apples wrote:
RichardReed84 wrote:Help! I'm trying to have a rational discussion about feminism and harassment policies over at the "Point of Inquiry" website (the one with Amanda Marcotte) but this one person keeps calling me a sexist and putting words in my mouth! What am I supposed to do? :)

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/amanda_ma ... -836152565
Jumping in with "it is near impossible to have a rational discussion with feminists" on a comment thread about Amanda Marcotte is a pretty big opening bet. Maybe you should double down - you might get rich!
As long as colon and Eucli don't find the thread, it just might have a chance.


Just kidding.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10604

Post by Apples »

In all seriousness about the harassment policy debates - for me the crux was the DJ Grothe thing. He'd actually done a decent survey indicating there was essentially *zero* problem at TAM, at which point the feminist inspection team kicked into action and found some misogynist particles behind the fridge. At which point he got a big fat "victim-blamer" label slapped on his forehead, game over.

As to whether harassment policies are "effective," it's really easy to get in the weeds on this. Easy answer - who cares? Better safe than sorry. Tf00t's rejoinder - but what if I get in trouble for biting a woman's leg at a bar! All in good fun! - fell pretty flat.

The current Adria Richards situation might be a worthwhile case-study, but I have a pessimistic guess how the commenters over there will respond.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10605

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:PZ Meyers dreams about doing things to his students while they are dressed as mermaids:
I dreamt that I walked into my classroom, and 50 pairs of eyes all turned to me, and they were all wearing Google Glass, and there were all these little red cyborg lights blinking at me[...]Don’t worry, though, I knew it was a dream, so I just flooded the whole room with salt water and shorted out their gadgets, and then I turned them all into mermaids and we…well, you don’t need to know.
No "mermen", you'll notice. For this little wet dream, Meyers turns all his male students into females. How heteronormative of him.
I thought PZ was almost elegiac there. A "Prufrock" moment or two?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

I do not think that they will sing to me.
Perhaps because;
Though I have seen my head (grown slightly bald) brought in upon a platter,
I am no prophet—and here’s no great matter;
I have seen the moment of my greatness flicker,
And I have seen the eternal Footman hold my coat, and snicker,
And in short, I was afraid.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10606

Post by 16bitheretic »

RichardReed84 wrote:Help! I'm trying to have a rational discussion about feminism and harassment policies over at the "Point of Inquiry" website (the one with Amanda Marcotte) but this one person keeps calling me a sexist and putting words in my mouth! What am I supposed to do? :)

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/amanda_ma ... -836152565
The problem is you are likely dealing with people who haven't ever had a 101 level self education on the flaws of mono-gendered ideaologies. They have most likely been trained up in the ways of all good progressive and liberal folks to automatically assume that feminism=support of women without even considering the heretical notion that perhaps, just maybe, some aspects of feminism may in fact be degrading and infantilizing of women, and it's possible to support equality of the genders without being a feminist.

I think I'm going to pursue some reading on human tribalism because I'm more and more starting to see a pattern of black and white thinking in regards to social justice political thought and the sort of black and white mindset I saw in religion before I dropped it. Whether it's the "with us or against women" rhetoric of feminists, or the cries of Islamophobiaand alleged racist motives coming from atheists themselves if one criticizes the ideaologies of Islam, I'm puzzled by the jumps people make from worthwhile positions (equality of races and genders) and jumping to these divisive, accusatory and petty ideaologies that have elements of the dogmatism and evasion of evidence and critical analysis that personified my experience with religious thinkers.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, because I think women and minority ethnicities did need organization to affect society and equalize legal rights, and there are many civil rights causes that still need further work to this day. The problem as I see it is that nowadays these various groups not only face opposition from openly hostile outside elements (the religious right vs women's reproductive rights is a real thing for one example), but also from within by people of certain mindsets who are pushing civil rights movements into toxic rhetoricand dogma that only fuels their opposition with ammo and lessens their movements' credibilities with the larger population, most of whom probably agree with their stated goals.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10607

Post by Al Stefanelli »

Pretty sure a good number of you have seen Ricky Gervais' movie, "The Invention of Lying." If so, do you remember the TV commercials that were part of the movie? This is what it seems things are coming to when I read shit like that woman getting the two guys fired for making a 'dongle' joke. I think most of you will understand that without me having to explain it.

Oh, and I can't remember who commented on the income of Freethought Bloggers, but even with the number of hits PZ gets, I don't reason his monthly income is in the range of $2000 to $3000 (US). The best months I've had there, and I've had some damn good hit count months, garnered me less than $100.00. My average was about thirty bucks. The real money in blogging is at Patheos. Bloggers there can easily earn in the neighborhood of $3000 or more per month, and that is not even for their top writers.

And thank you for the well-wishes, everyone, again. Much obliged.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10608

Post by katamari Damassi »

Ophelia wrote:

Aw. I got a present. A surprise present. It came in the mail.
Cupcakes! Fancy gourmet cupcakes from a fancy gourmet cupcake place.
As a surprise!
In the mail!
Unexpectedly!
Who sent me a present as a suprise in the mail unexpectedly as a surprise?
“Everyone at Skepchick”
Are they the best or what?!
I'm shocked that she: a) didn't interpret that as a threat. b) Is willing to eat food sent to her by anyone.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10609

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Apples wrote:In all seriousness about the harassment policy debates - for me the crux was the DJ Grothe thing. He'd actually done a decent survey indicating there was essentially *zero* problem at TAM, at which point the feminist inspection team kicked into action and found some misogynist particles behind the fridge. At which point he got a big fat "victim-blamer" label slapped on his forehead, game over.

As to whether harassment policies are "effective," it's really easy to get in the weeds on this. Easy answer - who cares? Better safe than sorry. Tf00t's rejoinder - but what if I get in trouble for biting a woman's leg at a bar! All in good fun! - fell pretty flat.

The current Adria Richards situation might be a worthwhile case-study, but I have a pessimistic guess how the commenters over there will respond.
Such policies are ultimately more about controlling the organisation making them, than the people they are supposedly directed at (who are usually unaware of their content or, often, of their existence). Anyone making them should be aware of what obligations they are committing themselves to, including having to deal with political grandstanding by interested parties.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10610

Post by katamari Damassi »

RichardReed84 wrote:Help! I'm trying to have a rational discussion about feminism and harassment policies over at the "Point of Inquiry" website (the one with Amanda Marcotte) but this one person keeps calling me a sexist and putting words in my mouth! What am I supposed to do? :)

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/amanda_ma ... -836152565
Years ago on Pandagon there was a post about the whole Alec Baldwin calling his daughter a "selfish pig" in voicemail and how abusive that is. I commented that none of us knew the whole story and possibly the kid had some harsh words coming to her. This was immediately reinterpreted as I am pro-domestic violence.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10611

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Al Stefanelli wrote:Pretty sure a good number of you have seen Ricky Gervais' movie, "The Invention of Lying." If so, do you remember the TV commercials that were part of the movie? This is what it seems things are coming to when I read shit like that woman getting the two guys fired for making a 'dongle' joke. I think most of you will understand that without me having to explain it.

Oh, and I can't remember who commented on the income of Freethought Bloggers, but even with the number of hits PZ gets, I don't reason his monthly income is in the range of $2000 to $3000 (US). The best months I've had there, and I've had some damn good hit count months, garnered me less than $100.00. My average was about thirty bucks. The real money in blogging is at Patheos. Bloggers there can easily earn in the neighborhood of $3000 or more per month, and that is not even for their top writers.

And thank you for the well-wishes, everyone, again. Much obliged.
More wishes for you to stay well, Al.

I guess the money at FTB is more consistent with welch's take on their management then.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10612

Post by katamari Damassi »

Regarding the guys fired for making a dongle joke affair; I'm looking for some sort of verification that this actually happened. Is there a source other than the woman who blogged it?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10613

Post by JackSkeptic »

RichardReed84 wrote:Help! I'm trying to have a rational discussion about feminism and harassment policies over at the "Point of Inquiry" website (the one with Amanda Marcotte) but this one person keeps calling me a sexist and putting words in my mouth! What am I supposed to do? :)

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/amanda_ma ... -836152565
Tell them to drop the Ad Hominems and strawmanning you or you will discontinue the discussion. Tell them asking a question is not the same as disagreeing with them and that if you are required to take what they say purely on faith there is no discussion to be had. So what is the point of anyone being there?

Personally I wouldn't bother.

Cunning Punt
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10614

Post by Cunning Punt »

katamari Damassi wrote:Regarding the guys fired for making a dongle joke affair; I'm looking for some sort of verification that this actually happened. Is there a source other than the woman who blogged it?
Are you doubting her word? You hyper-skeptical misogynist.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10615

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

katamari Damassi wrote:Regarding the guys fired for making a dongle joke affair; I'm looking for some sort of verification that this actually happened. Is there a source other than the woman who blogged it?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10616

Post by Lsuoma »

katamari Damassi wrote:
Ophelia wrote:

Aw. I got a present. A surprise present. It came in the mail.
Cupcakes! Fancy gourmet cupcakes from a fancy gourmet cupcake place.
As a surprise!
In the mail!
Unexpectedly!
Who sent me a present as a suprise in the mail unexpectedly as a surprise?
“Everyone at Skepchick”
Are they the best or what?!
I'm shocked that she: a) didn't interpret that as a threat. b) Is willing to eat food sent to her by anyone.
Reminds me of that scene in The Thick of It where Malcolm Tucker gets sent a birthday cake with the words "Happy Birthday C*nt" iced onto it, and he says "This could be from anyone."

[youtube]cASKWJou-VE[/youtube]

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10617

Post by JackSkeptic »

Apples wrote:
Karmakin wrote:
Apples wrote:
Percentage wrote:The whole McEwan thing is making me LOL. I mean Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, talk about uncharitable. If this were anything other than fucking FEMINISM, Peezus would be shrieking at the top of his lungs.

Not that I care, because fuck PZ, but it is hilarious to watch McEwan twist his words to mean... I'm not really clear what she thinks he was saying, actually. I guess she's pissed at the additional implication women should be decent human beings too?
Tip for PZ -- A good Internet femtheist is not supposed to have "reservations" about anything Melissa McEwan says or does.
It's funny to me because she's the final evolved state of what they're doing. All SJW work will evolve towards that attitude in the long run. They either might as well embrace it right now, or rethink what they're doing. Because they WILL get there eventually. Hell, the A+ forums are not that far off.
Gregory Greenwood, over at PZ's thread:
We need to understand why Melissa feels the way she does, and to respect her stance. At the same time, we need to be careful to avoid a situation where MRAs succeed in ‘poisoning the well’ by creating such suspicion that a single poorly chosen word can lead to a level of accusation and mistrust that could potentially make constructive discourse difficult between people who actually share similar viewpoints and would under other circumstances be natural allies.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-583670

That's right, Gregory - we wouldn't want any nasty "MRAs" to succeed in creating the suspicion that the world is round.
Does anyone get the impression some of these posts read like a bible analyses? Jesus said this, he meant that, our message we should get from that is...all the while simply being someone's projection rather than what is actually said. Melissa is a nasty piece of work who finds offence at the drop of a hat to push her agenda. Simple.

I wonder how many people there were deeply religious and missed the 'You are allowed to think for yourself and be yourself now' message?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10618

Post by Altair »

rayshul wrote:
Altair wrote:It gets tiring to have women call for equal treatment and empowerment while at the same time claiming they are delicate little flowers that can't withstand anything.

This speaks badly of me, and makes me actually ashamed, but, FSM, sometimes I understand misogynists. If it wasn't for the sane women I know in real life and the sane women I know online (including the lady pitters), there are days I could easily slide into that mindset.
:oops:
I feel absolutely the same. Or would, if there weren't asshole men also going on about how women are delicate little flowers. UGhghgh.
hehehehe, you said asshole :lol:
I mean, ehhmm, bad rayshul, bad!

I wonder about the thought process of that kind of man. Are they really trying to protect women, albeit in a misguided way? Is it a way to feel stronger themselves? Do they want to feel like the "good kind of man (tm)"?

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10619

Post by Pitchguest »

CommanderTuvok wrote:Adria Richards got two sacked?

Greg Laden is currently yanking out his pubic hair, out of jealousy!
It appears she only got one sacked (the one with the wife and three kids), the other one kept his job. While the one who was let go sounds a bit like a doormat from his posts at Hackernews here, I'll argue he doesn't want it to blow up out of proportion and make the whole thing worse than it is. (Watson, take note.) But still, I am still in awe of how awful this woman really is. She reports two people for sexual harassment (which is what it sounded like, sexual harassment), one of them gets fired and she gloats about it on twitter feeling like Joan of Arc. Then after she denounces two men (or man, there apparently was no sexual "forking" joke) about an ambiguous "dongle" joke which could be interpreted as an innuendo, she herself makes an obvious sexual joke about someone else's dick.

Al - It's a bit sweet. :mrgreen:

Katamari - Yes, it definitely happened, and yes, it definitely is as bad as you think. Repeating, there is this link from Hackernews by the guy who was fired himself. The first two tweets that started it all. The tweet where she says she feels like Joan of Arc, minus the visions.

And here's the tweet where she makes a joke about someone's dick.

Fan-fucking-tastic.

Oh, and she's also said that black people cannot be racist. Ever.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

#10620

Post by Karmakin »

Jack wrote:
Apples wrote:
Karmakin wrote:
Apples wrote:
Percentage wrote:The whole McEwan thing is making me LOL. I mean Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, talk about uncharitable. If this were anything other than fucking FEMINISM, Peezus would be shrieking at the top of his lungs.

Not that I care, because fuck PZ, but it is hilarious to watch McEwan twist his words to mean... I'm not really clear what she thinks he was saying, actually. I guess she's pissed at the additional implication women should be decent human beings too?
Tip for PZ -- A good Internet femtheist is not supposed to have "reservations" about anything Melissa McEwan says or does.
It's funny to me because she's the final evolved state of what they're doing. All SJW work will evolve towards that attitude in the long run. They either might as well embrace it right now, or rethink what they're doing. Because they WILL get there eventually. Hell, the A+ forums are not that far off.
Gregory Greenwood, over at PZ's thread:
We need to understand why Melissa feels the way she does, and to respect her stance. At the same time, we need to be careful to avoid a situation where MRAs succeed in ‘poisoning the well’ by creating such suspicion that a single poorly chosen word can lead to a level of accusation and mistrust that could potentially make constructive discourse difficult between people who actually share similar viewpoints and would under other circumstances be natural allies.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-583670

That's right, Gregory - we wouldn't want any nasty "MRAs" to succeed in creating the suspicion that the world is round.
Does anyone get the impression some of these posts read like a bible analyses? Jesus said this, he meant that, our message we should get from that is...all the while simply being someone's projection rather than what is actually said. Melissa is a nasty piece of work who finds offence at the drop of a hat to push her agenda. Simple.

I wonder how many people there were deeply religious and missed the 'You are allowed to think for yourself and be yourself now' message?
Religion is not the only source of this attitude. There is a reason I sometimes call it Academic Feminism, in that it wants simple models that people can be tested on and sorted depending on if they are right and wrong. Now I do not limit this to gender studies...I think basic economics falls into the same trap..but the desire to have a singular authoritative theory drives some of this.

Locked