Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[ReneeHendricks]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small. The impact of this whole shebang on the wider Atheist/skeptic community seems to get smaller every time I hear Actual Numbers.

Only 300? From all the hype I've been reading, I thought there would be thousands. Kind of anti-climatic

[ReneeHendricks]

I doubt that listening to criticism ever improved anyone's poetry very much. The only way to improve your poetry is to expand your experience and deepen your understanding of the world. And metaphors. Lots of 'em.

It had nothing to do with criticism, but my own poetry improved immeasurably when I admitted to myself that I was crap at it and stopped writing it.


I had to do a quick google to check… and indeed, the old horrible homepage where I put some of it still exists. Damn you Internet, why won't you forget?

http://www.poetrysoup.com/poems_poets/p ... x?ID=23044

Yeah. I like to write shitty poetry on occasion. But I went into it knowing I'd suck :D

[Nim_Chimpsky]

I doubt that listening to criticism ever improved anyone's poetry very much. The only way to improve your poetry is to expand your experience and deepen your understanding of the world. And metaphors. Lots of 'em.

I disagree, constructive criticism could help you identify where your rhyme and meter is a bit off. Constructive criticism could also lead to you looking at other poets work and thus influencing your own poetry. People certainly can improve at poetry and a lot of that improvement has to do with poets taking a reflective look at their own work and establishing what does and doesn't work, no reason why constructive criticism couldn't improve a persons poetry if they were willing to take in on board.

[Barael]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small. The impact of this whole shebang on the wider Atheist/skeptic community seems to get smaller every time I hear Actual Numbers.

Only 300? From all the hype I've been reading, I thought there would be thousands. Kind of anti-climatic

Would still make for a world record reverse gangbang by a good margin.

...but question becomes, does JV have the 'stache for it?

[Slither]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small. The impact of this whole shebang on the wider Atheist/skeptic community seems to get smaller every time I hear Actual Numbers.

Only 300? From all the hype I've been reading, I thought there would be thousands. Kind of anti-climatic

And, remember, 300 is the number the ORGANIZERS are saying. Which is a very suspicious round number. We have no way of knowing whether 300 that Hensley quoted is really 87 registrants plus the 213 people that she is absolutely sure will register at the door.

[Nim_Chimpsky]

Slimy comments are not welcomed; please leave the hideousness in the pit where you crawled from. I ain’t got no time for your shit, dump it in the pit.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... nt-policy/

Just noticed this in Yemmy's new comment policy. Does this mean that member of the pit aren't allowed to comment on her blog or just comments she considers 'slimy'. Her comment policy seems to effectively block any thing that could be considered criticism of her views, will be interesting to see how she implements it.

[AbsurdWalls]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small.

That's not silly. THAT..IS..SPARTA!!!

My bet is that Justin Vacula gets kicked down a well before the end of day 1.

[TedDahlberg]

I doubt that listening to criticism ever improved anyone's poetry very much. The only way to improve your poetry is to expand your experience and deepen your understanding of the world. And metaphors. Lots of 'em.

It had nothing to do with criticism, but my own poetry improved immeasurably when I admitted to myself that I was crap at it and stopped writing it.


I had to do a quick google to check… and indeed, the old horrible homepage where I put some of it still exists. Damn you Internet, why won't you forget?

http://www.poetrysoup.com/poems_poets/p ... x?ID=23044

Yeah. I like to write shitty poetry on occasion. But I went into it knowing I'd suck :D

Hey, there's something to say for writing for writing's sake. It's the only way to get better.

And Rolly-polly Autumn made me laugh out loud.

[Jonathan]

Slimy comments are not welcomed; please leave the hideousness in the pit where you crawled from. I ain’t got no time for your shit, dump it in the pit.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynistin ... nt-policy/

Just noticed this in Yemmy's new comment policy. Does this mean that member of the pit aren't allowed to comment on her blog or just comments she considers 'slimy'. Her comment policy seems to effectively block any thing that could be considered criticism of her views, will be interesting to see how she implements it.

Well she said she ain't got no time, which is a double-negative, so that obviously means that she does have time for commenters from the pit. Carry on, folks.

/pedantry

[ReneeHendricks]

I doubt that listening to criticism ever improved anyone's poetry very much. The only way to improve your poetry is to expand your experience and deepen your understanding of the world. And metaphors. Lots of 'em.

It had nothing to do with criticism, but my own poetry improved immeasurably when I admitted to myself that I was crap at it and stopped writing it.


I had to do a quick google to check… and indeed, the old horrible homepage where I put some of it still exists. Damn you Internet, why won't you forget?

http://www.poetrysoup.com/poems_poets/p ... x?ID=23044

Yeah. I like to write shitty poetry on occasion. But I went into it knowing I'd suck :D

Hey, there's something to say for writing for writing's sake. It's the only way to get better.

And Rolly-polly Autumn made me laugh out loud.

I think that's mainly why I tried my hand at poetry. For the lolz and smiles :D

[TedDahlberg]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small.

That's not silly. THAT..IS..SPARTA!!!

Photoshop-people, what's taking you so long? :whistle:

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploads/ ... 00x397.jpg

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... 686_n1.jpg

[Jonathan]

I doubt that listening to criticism ever improved anyone's poetry very much. The only way to improve your poetry is to expand your experience and deepen your understanding of the world. And metaphors. Lots of 'em.

It had nothing to do with criticism, but my own poetry improved immeasurably when I admitted to myself that I was crap at it and stopped writing it.


I had to do a quick google to check… and indeed, the old horrible homepage where I put some of it still exists. Damn you Internet, why won't you forget?

http://www.poetrysoup.com/poems_poets/p ... x?ID=23044

Yeah. I like to write shitty poetry on occasion. But I went into it knowing I'd suck :D

Hey, there's something to say for writing for writing's sake. It's the only way to get better.

And Rolly-polly Autumn made me laugh out loud.

I think that's mainly why I tried my hand at poetry. For the lolz and smiles :D

I like the "bothersome bird-woman" haiku.

[TedDahlberg]

I think that's mainly why I tried my hand at poetry. For the lolz and smiles :D

Job well done!

And best wishes for a speedy recovery for your guy.

[ReneeHendricks]

I like the "bothersome bird-woman" haiku.

I think I had had a few shots when writing that one. Go figure. My "poetry" gets better when I'm snockered :D

[Jonathan]

I like the "bothersome bird-woman" haiku.

I think I had had a few shots when writing that one. Go figure. My "poetry" gets better when I'm snockered :D

My pool gets better when I've had a few. Never tried that while writing though. Maybe I should :think:

[bovarchist]

Yay for the hubby, Renee :) Hopefully he is looking forward to eating more interesting food later on...

Thanks and yea - I imagine broth on a constant basis would suck all sorts of ass.

Only if the broth is literally sucked out of an ass.

[Dick Strawkins]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small. The impact of this whole shebang on the wider Atheist/skeptic community seems to get smaller every time I hear Actual Numbers.

Only 300? From all the hype I've been reading, I thought there would be thousands. Kind of anti-climatic

Would still make for a world record reverse gangbang by a good margin.

...but question becomes, does JV have the 'stache for it?

Typical pitter...making rape threats against a WISC2 attendee (Justin)!

[TedDahlberg]

I like the "bothersome bird-woman" haiku.

I think I had had a few shots when writing that one. Go figure. My "poetry" gets better when I'm snockered :D

My pool gets better when I've had a few. Never tried that while writing though. Maybe I should :think:

Reader, I married him. Was only me and him and, the priest obviously and, and, this other bloke, clerky type person. We were well starved when we got back from the church so I went into the kitchen and Mary was there cooking dinner… oh, I could have killed a kebab... And John was there playing with knives or something, I don't remember. And I said -

"Mary, I bloody love you, you're the best housekeeper EVAR! Guess what. Go on, guess. You can never guess what I just did. Guess. Hah, you'll never get it! I married Mr. Rochester this morning."

[Southern]

In which the patriarchal Japan, land of tentacle rape and opression against women, reveal that the wives control their husbands' expenditures down to the last yen.

[Zenspace]

I doubt that listening to criticism ever improved anyone's poetry very much. The only way to improve your poetry is to expand your experience and deepen your understanding of the world. And metaphors. Lots of 'em.

It had nothing to do with criticism, but my own poetry improved immeasurably when I admitted to myself that I was crap at it and stopped writing it.


I had to do a quick google to check… and indeed, the old horrible homepage where I put some of it still exists. Damn you Internet, why won't you forget?

This is why I prefer to practice haiku. At least the resulting steamy pile is small and manageable. :mrgreen:

[Skeptic_Duh]

"This is WIS2!"

[Dick Strawkins]

http://i.imgur.com/iyJkgOR.jpg

[Jonathan]

I like the "bothersome bird-woman" haiku.

I think I had had a few shots when writing that one. Go figure. My "poetry" gets better when I'm snockered :D

My pool gets better when I've had a few. Never tried that while writing though. Maybe I should :think:

Reader, I married him. Was only me and him and, the priest obviously and, and, this other bloke, clerky type person. We were well starved when we got back from the church so I went into the kitchen and Mary was there cooking dinner… oh, I could have killed a kebab... And John was there playing with knives or something, I don't remember. And I said -

"Mary, I bloody love you, you're the best housekeeper EVAR! Guess what. Go on, guess. You can never guess what I just did. Guess. Hah, you'll never get it! I married Mr. Rochester this morning."

Still a better love story than Twilight.

[acathode]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small. The impact of this whole shebang on the wider Atheist/skeptic community seems to get smaller every time I hear Actual Numbers.

Yay for the hubby, Renee :) Hopefully he is looking forward to eating more interesting food later on...

Any backyard anime convention can get more than 300 people, for Christ's sake. To discuss yaoi fanfic. In fact, it can attrack 5 times more people than WiS, back in 2007.

Yeah, my thoughts pretty much as well. Someone linked to the WiS homepage a few weeks ago, to point out the poor quality with several typos and shitty photos from last years event (Amy fidling with her phone etc). The thing on the frontpage that stood out to me was really the picture of the audience. It seems like a pitiful number of participants, if that's all they can scrape together, no wonder they are so pissed over how they couldn't take over TAM.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small.

That's not silly. THAT..IS..SPARTA!!!

Photoshop-people, what's taking you so long? :whistle:

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploads/ ... 00x397.jpg

Have you seen Xerxes these days?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0763928/?ref_=tt_cl_t10

Only a shadow of what he used to be. Also, looks like a nice guy.

[Southern]

300 women and JV. Just 300 going to WiS, though? That seems silly-small.

That's not silly. THAT..IS..SPARTA!!!

Photoshop-people, what's taking you so long? :whistle:

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploads/ ... 00x397.jpg

Have you seen Xerxes these days?

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0763928/?ref_=tt_cl_t10

Only a shadow of what he used to be. Also, looks like a nice guy.

After his hijinks with the Spartans, Xerxes got married and lived happily ever after:

MV5BMTc1MTk0ODgxOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNzU2ODg2._V1._SX485_SY363_.jpg

(39.94 KiB) Downloaded 278 times

[zenbabe]

I say Vacula gets on an elevator with Watson, Svan, Hensley and Benson, the latter of whom panics and hits the emergency button, stopping the elevator between floors and necessitating the occupants to climb out through the roof hatch. Ophelia panics again at the thought of Vacula taking upskirt pics and accuses Justin of "stochastic terrorism". It being Washington, this accusation is picked up by the CIA and Vacula is hauled away to Guantanamo bay for extensive waterboarding.

Vacula gets on an elevator with Watson, Greta, and Benson. The door closes on ominous quiet.

Vacula watches the lights, his hand reaches up and strokes his 'stache.

Rebecca: I am uncomfortable
Greta: I am uncomfortable
Ophelia: I am uncomfortable

Vacula smirks slightly and continues the self-soothing stroking of that INSANE growth of hair.

Rebecca: Guys shouldn't do that!
Ophelia: He just called me a cunt with that gesture!
Greta: Is that a unicorn horn in his pocket?!

DING! Doors open and the ladies strut right the hell out, one fantasizing about writing lurid words over his mustache, one thinking "cuntcuntcuntcuntcuntcunt", and another scribbling notes for a new story of elevator rape; poor Vacula is reported for mysogynexual harassment and summarily kicked from the convention.

JV! Just shave that damn thing!

[justinvacula]

New post from PZ still not getting it:

The scarlet crayon of atheism

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... f-atheism/

Can he really be this dense? I suppose 'of course' is the answer at this point.

"I’ve been trying to understand how people — not just people, but self-declared “leaders of the atheist movement” — can claim that atheism is only the lack of belief in any gods, and further, that absence of god-belief entails no other significant consequences."

[Dick Strawkins]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... f-atheism/

Peezus, having got bored quote-mining Vacula, has a new post up called the scarlet crayon of atheism.
This is not, as one might expect however, about the sole writing impliment Nerd of Redhead is allowed to use.
It is an attempt by Peezus to explain his anti-dictionary-atheist philosophy.

And it fails miserably.

Read it yourself to notice the flaws.
From my point of view I fail to recognize the religion or society he uses as the justification for his stance.
'Religion' and 'society' as he seems to describe are very parochial affairs - it is a purely Christian and American matter to him.
The fact that many of us live in non-American secular democracies where religion has very limited influence doesn't seem to be on the horizon for him.
Indeed most of the worlds population lives in societies where monotheism of any form is not the controlling factor, even if religion does have an influence.

[AbsurdWalls]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

[justinvacula]

Never forget:

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... geting-me/

http://i.imgur.com/a9kKYeW.jpg

[AbsurdWalls]

I guess PZ swallowed the whole Sam Harris brand Objective Morality thing?

[Jonathan]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

I've been trying to roll this around in my head and it doesn't make sense. So if, say, I gave some money to a homeless guy, it would not be enough to say that it felt right, but that it would have to be for a secular purpose? What secular purpose?! How would you get evidence to show that handing this random guy a few quid is right?

[AbsurdWalls]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

I've been trying to roll this around in my head and it doesn't make sense. So if, say, I gave some money to a homeless guy, it would not be enough to say that it felt right, but that it would have to be for a secular purpose? What secular purpose?! How would you get evidence to show that handing this random guy a few quid is right?

It's alright, I will award you my recognition that giving money to a homeless guy serves a secular purpose so long as you whisper "God is a lie..." when you do so.

He might just mean that "Doing it for God!" is not a reason available to atheists, but in that case I am curious as to how my actions making me feel good does not in itself serve a "secular purpose".

[Jonathan]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

I've been trying to roll this around in my head and it doesn't make sense. So if, say, I gave some money to a homeless guy, it would not be enough to say that it felt right, but that it would have to be for a secular purpose? What secular purpose?! How would you get evidence to show that handing this random guy a few quid is right?

It's alright, I will award you my recognition that giving money to a homeless guy serves a secular purpose so long as you whisper "God is a lie..." when you do so.

He might just mean that "Doing it for God!" is not a reason available to atheists, but in that case I am curious as to how my actions making me feel good does not in itself serve a "secular purpose".

Got it. Next time I will be sure to whisper:

"Keep god out of politics"
"No to religious hegemony"
"Buddha was clinically obese"

I feel better.

[katamari Damassi]

Hey, for those interested, my guy finished up his radiation a little over a week ago. In total, he lost over 50 pounds. He didn't start feeling like shit until after the therapy completed. He's battling major exhaustion and depression at this point.

But! The hardest part is done. Nothin' but recovery time now. Oh, and that man is still working. Apparently 99% of their patients stop working for at least a month (according to his doctor and all the nurses and nutritionists at the cancer clinic). He has said he's ready to punch people in the face if he hears how brave he is one more time. That's a good indication to me that he's starting to get back to his oil' self :)

Great to hear that Renee!

He is truly a brave hero. (ducks)

[Gefan]

I like the "bothersome bird-woman" haiku.

I think I had had a few shots when writing that one. Go figure. My "poetry" gets better when I'm snockered :D

My pool gets better when I've had a few. Never tried that while writing though. Maybe I should :think:

Reader, I married him. Was only me and him and, the priest obviously and, and, this other bloke, clerky type person. We were well starved when we got back from the church so I went into the kitchen and Mary was there cooking dinner… oh, I could have killed a kebab... And John was there playing with knives or something, I don't remember. And I said -

"Mary, I bloody love you, you're the best housekeeper EVAR! Guess what. Go on, guess. You can never guess what I just did. Guess. Hah, you'll never get it! I married Mr. Rochester this morning."

In my head that sounds like a monologue from an Alan Bennet play.

[Zenspace]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

Peezus hasn't spent much time outside of his box, has he?

Really, with a few notable exceptions, most of our morality and general behavioral patterns is a direct hand-me-down from our parents, not religion. Removing the religious aspect from most societies has little to no impact on general behavior within most populations. As JV was trying to say, removing A does not necessarily lead to B.

PZ might want to reconsider that whole divorce from scepticism thing.

[Gefan]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

I hope someone didn't just question feelings as the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong.
That might not go down well with some people.

[acathode]

According to an article I just read, American Apparel's website has been reported for sexism to the Swedish advertising ombudsman. It won't go anywhere because it's an American website and not aimed at Swedish consumers (which should have been obvious to whoever reported it). But anyway, regardless of legal matters and whether or not such things should be regulated by the state; this does seem sexist to me:

http://www.dn.se/Images/2013/05/15/amer ... 282%29.jpg

Both pictures advertise the same shirt. I personally couldn't possibly work up any sort of outrage over it, but I'd definitely say it's bad form. They could at least have gotten a sexier man for the picture.

Apparently (sorry non-Swedish readers), the sexism is deliberate, and it's there for the single purpose to exploit our lazy media into giving them free attention and airtime, which equal sales.

Ryan Holiday is the Director of Marketing for American Apparel, and has also written the book Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator. He's put a excerpt from his book online, where he described the sort of tactic he used to create national controversy and attention to the movie "I hope they serve beer in hell". Judging by the tactic he used there, it wouldn't be the least surprising if turned out that both the report of sexism and the tip to our national media came from AA or Ryan himself (under fake names).

[bovarchist]

Wait a minnit...PZ's little homily isn't even consistent from one phrase to the next. You can't base morality on "obedience to authority" but rather, on empathy. Isn't empathy a feeling? Yes...the judges rule that empathy is indeed a feeling. So why does he immediately say that you "don't get to justify actions simply because they "feel" right"? Rather, your morality has to "serve a secular purpose". But isn't serving a secular purpose mean you're basing your morality on obedience to some kind of an authority? IT MAKES NO SENSE MY BRAIN IS MELTINGGGGGGGG.

[Skep tickle]

Fair amount of pushback against PZ's stance in the comments to "scarlet crayon".

It’s A-theism, not Athe-ism. (A-bluecrayonism?) the most militant of us recognize this.

I don’t know that, because many of us arrived at atheism through skeptical/naturalistic methods, that it should be presumed that atheism should imply those things. It’s more likely the other way around, really. In any case, there are plenty of folks who are really atheists that believe in the supernatural and are even religious, and I don’t think we should deny their identities or suggest that they are “bad atheists” because they don’t subscribe to the things we do in addition to atheism.

I would dearly love you to have this conversation with Matt Dillahunty and the other co-hosts of The Atheist Experience, because you seem to be at odds with their definitions of atheism.

They define theism as a belief in a god or gods and a-theism as a lack of belief. A person may lack a belief for many reasons but it’s usually down to a rejection of the claim that a God exists. You can be an atheist asshole or a morally good person who also happens not to believe in a God. Either way you’re still an atheist. It tells you nothing of what else they positively do believe. The term atheism only deals with the notion of whether or not a God or Gods exist(s). If I’ve mis-represented the AXP stance on this issue, please correct me.

What are people who don’t believe in gods, but also happen to be sexist or racist? I would argue that they are assholes, but they are still atheists. I happen to be atheist AND I consider myself a feminist. However, it’s confusing to label them both under the atheism banner as you will unfortunately continue to get sexist atheists. Atheism+ on the other hand, that differentiates a movement and grouping of like-minded individuals from the general notion of atheism, so this seems clearer.

I think PZ is a nice thinker, though I don’t know him well enough to tell the difference between “great” and “very good”. But it’s leaping over that barrier to his own understanding, landing in a foreign field of thought, taking in the important landmarks, *and then coming back to give the rest of us a map to the place* that I really appreciate.

Red Crayon Brigade may very well become as useful a concept as Atheism+.

"Off to the 'pit with the lot of you, except Crip Dyke, you can stay and lick my boots" (I'm imagining PZ saying, but he probably won't)

S'pose Matt Dillahunty will come weigh in, in the comments? :lol:

[bovarchist]

:violin: Hmmm. Just noticed that Lousy Canuck refers to me as "spamming the FTBullies hashtag with hate". He's got the strangest notion of both 'spamming' and 'hate' but I guess that's not news. Honestly, if even a tiny fry like me can upset them with my once-or-twice-a-week tweets, how pathetic does that make them?

[justinvacula]

Amanda Marcotte authors hit piece about me distorting my views and branding me a misogynist? Think she will defend her views at Women in Secularism 2?

Here's what I ACTUALLY said, in context
http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... positions/

Her piece:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/16/f ... chronicle/

[d4m10n]

:violin: Hmmm. Just noticed that Lousy Canuck refers to me as "spamming the FTBullies hashtag with hate". He's got the strangest notion of both 'spamming' and 'hate' but I guess that's not news. Honestly, if even a tiny fry like me can upset them with my once-or-twice-a-week tweets, how pathetic does that make them?

Oh yeah, spamming other people's hashtags is a terrible thing to behold: http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/ ... gs-go-bad/

:mrgreen:

[bovarchist]

Amanda Marcotte authors hit piece about me distorting my views and branding me a misogynist? Think she will defend her views at Women in Secularism 2?

Here's what I ACTUALLY said, in context
http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... positions/

Her piece:
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/16/f ... chronicle/

I promised I'd read until I came across something stupid. It took less than three lines. Apparently, we sexists' main point is that "sexual harassment is a holy right and conferences shouldn’t have policies banning it."

Actually, speaking for myself, I'd say the main point is that free speech is a right, and calling speech you don't like 'harassment' doesn't make it so. Dunno why that's so hard to understand, but I certainly wouldn't respect the opinions of someone who couldn't grasp it.

[TedDahlberg]

According to an article I just read, American Apparel's website has been reported for sexism to the Swedish advertising ombudsman. It won't go anywhere because it's an American website and not aimed at Swedish consumers (which should have been obvious to whoever reported it). But anyway, regardless of legal matters and whether or not such things should be regulated by the state; this does seem sexist to me:

http://www.dn.se/Images/2013/05/15/amer ... 282%29.jpg

Both pictures advertise the same shirt. I personally couldn't possibly work up any sort of outrage over it, but I'd definitely say it's bad form. They could at least have gotten a sexier man for the picture.

Apparently (sorry non-Swedish readers), the sexism is deliberate, and it's there for the single purpose to exploit our lazy media into giving them free attention and airtime, which equal sales.

Ryan Holiday is the Director of Marketing for American Apparel, and has also written the book Trust Me, I'm Lying: Confessions of a Media Manipulator. He's put a excerpt from his book online, where he described the sort of tactic he used to create national controversy and attention to the movie "I hope they serve beer in hell". Judging by the tactic he used there, it wouldn't be the least surprising if turned out that both the report of sexism and the tip to our national media came from AA or Ryan himself (under fake names).

I read that a little earlier. I certainly fell for it. That'll teach me to speak when I don't know the full story…

[JackSkeptic]

Renée, great news. Hopefully he is pleased he stuck it out, it must have been intolerable a lot of the time.

[JackSkeptic]

Lsuoma are we going to get 'pit blogs? :D I am totally up for that shit.

Yeah, bring it on. One must acknowledge, for a mere forum that basically has only one thread, we're holding up quite well in terms of internet fame (or notoriety).

I'd be up for that. People can read my blog entry when they get insomnia.

[Cunning Punt]

it would not be entirely inaccurate to describe me as Amazonish.

Covered in vegetation and home to countless species unknown to science?

But slowly and painfully being given a complete Brazilian.

[TedDahlberg]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

Hmm, let's try rephrasing that paragraph in a way that makes it closer to, er, reality:

Being an atheist means you can no longer will still learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to can rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals if you choose to, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose by saying "god commands it".

[TedDahlberg]

"This is WIS2!"
[img]*disturbing%20picture*[/img]

[img]*slightly%20less%20disturbing%20picture*[/img]

*sniff* I knew I could count on you.

[JackSkeptic]

Wait a minnit...PZ's little homily isn't even consistent from one phrase to the next. You can't base morality on "obedience to authority" but rather, on empathy. Isn't empathy a feeling? Yes...the judges rule that empathy is indeed a feeling. So why does he immediately say that you "don't get to justify actions simply because they "feel" right"? Rather, your morality has to "serve a secular purpose". But isn't serving a secular purpose mean you're basing your morality on obedience to some kind of an authority? IT MAKES NO SENSE MY BRAIN IS MELTINGGGGGGGG.

Do I get a prize? Yesterday I made a post here accusing PMZ of doing exactly what he did in his blog.

[Zenspace]

Turns out that odd balloon posted a couple of days ago is not only real - the Skywhale!, but is the cause of some hysterical controversy:

http://junkee.com/the-ten-most-wonderfu ... whale/8902

:lol:

[Southern]

Wait a minnit...PZ's little homily isn't even consistent from one phrase to the next. You can't base morality on "obedience to authority" but rather, on empathy. Isn't empathy a feeling? Yes...the judges rule that empathy is indeed a feeling. So why does he immediately say that you "don't get to justify actions simply because they "feel" right"? Rather, your morality has to "serve a secular purpose". But isn't serving a secular purpose mean you're basing your morality on obedience to some kind of an authority? IT MAKES NO SENSE MY BRAIN IS MELTINGGGGGGGG.

Do I get a prize? Yesterday I made a post here accusing PMZ of doing exactly what he did in his blog.

Hi, I'm a representative from the JREF, and I hereby give you...

[youtube]l91ISfcuzDw[/youtube]

[Lsuoma]

Wait a minnit...PZ's little homily isn't even consistent from one phrase to the next. You can't base morality on "obedience to authority" but rather, on empathy. Isn't empathy a feeling? Yes...the judges rule that empathy is indeed a feeling. So why does he immediately say that you "don't get to justify actions simply because they "feel" right"? Rather, your morality has to "serve a secular purpose". But isn't serving a secular purpose mean you're basing your morality on obedience to some kind of an authority? IT MAKES NO SENSE MY BRAIN IS MELTINGGGGGGGG.

Do I get a prize? Yesterday I made a post here accusing PMZ of doing exactly what he did in his blog.

A date with Opehelia...

[Bhurzum]

Wait a minnit...PZ's little homily isn't even consistent from one phrase to the next. You can't base morality on "obedience to authority" but rather, on empathy. Isn't empathy a feeling? Yes...the judges rule that empathy is indeed a feeling. So why does he immediately say that you "don't get to justify actions simply because they "feel" right"? Rather, your morality has to "serve a secular purpose". But isn't serving a secular purpose mean you're basing your morality on obedience to some kind of an authority? IT MAKES NO SENSE MY BRAIN IS MELTINGGGGGGGG.

Do I get a prize? Yesterday I made a post here accusing PMZ of doing exactly what he did in his blog.

A date with Opehelia...

Two little kids = play date
Two blokes = man date
Ophelia and Jack = ???

[welch]

Being an atheist means you can no longer learn your moral code by rote and tradition and obedience to authority*, but have to rely on reason and empathy and greater human goals, and you don’t get to justify actions simply because they “feel” right or good — you have to support them with evidence or recognition that they directly serve a secular purpose.

Wat? :think:

he's attempting to become a major leader with this. It's not supposed to make sense, it's an emotional call to arms. The last paragraph or two make this clear. This is the start of an attempt to become a Dawkins-level name.

[welch]

:violin: Hmmm. Just noticed that Lousy Canuck refers to me as "spamming the FTBullies hashtag with hate". He's got the strangest notion of both 'spamming' and 'hate' but I guess that's not news. Honestly, if even a tiny fry like me can upset them with my once-or-twice-a-week tweets, how pathetic does that make them?

Very

[Zenspace]

Wait a minnit...PZ's little homily isn't even consistent from one phrase to the next. You can't base morality on "obedience to authority" but rather, on empathy. Isn't empathy a feeling? Yes...the judges rule that empathy is indeed a feeling. So why does he immediately say that you "don't get to justify actions simply because they "feel" right"? Rather, your morality has to "serve a secular purpose". But isn't serving a secular purpose mean you're basing your morality on obedience to some kind of an authority? IT MAKES NO SENSE MY BRAIN IS MELTINGGGGGGGG.

Do I get a prize? Yesterday I made a post here accusing PMZ of doing exactly what he did in his blog.

A date with Opehelia...

Two little kids = play date
Two blokes = man date
Ophelia and Jack = ???

A date with DESTINY!!!!!!

:dance: :dance: :dance: