Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

[Skeptic_Duh]

So with that tweet shown above by Melody Hensley - she lays out her plan on stopping JV from attending WISCON2. "Prior" violations of this cons harassment policy will result in banning...

The Fuck?

I predict that she will let him get to the door, then make this big production on how "his kind isn't welcomed here" - and then ban him - wasting money and time.

Then she will go in for the group hugs and say how she is a brave warrior - fighting the injustice.

[AnonymousCowherd]

You seem to think that infinite growth is both desirable or, (more importantly), possible!

Quite the contrary. Something has to give, the only questions are What? and When? Just fixing the population issue is not enough

Why not?
If one can get the population down to the level at which it consumes less than the energy flux from the sum of solar, neutrino, geothermal, nuclear & tidal it WILL be sustainable. At least for the next billion years or so.
It is absolutely mathematically undeniable.

- like increasing food production, it just buys a little time if we continue to avoid a "steady state" of resource consumption. One way or another, there's going to be less of us, but we might get the choice of whether we get to live like Mad Max or not.

As I said, prolonging the agony and increasing growth will only grossly exacerbate the inevitable pain in numbers preventably of horrid human deaths and suffering.

Economists are the Horsemen of the Apocalypso.

That implies you have also fixed the continuing growth in resource consumption issue. Reduce the population as far as you like. As long as it is non-zero, if the resource demands continue to rise year on year then you eventually exceed whatever limit you put on them.

Alternatively, let the population rise as far as you like. As long as it is finite, it can remain below any arbitrary global resource limit provided the per capita consumption falls sufficiently.

Neither sound too palatable, but the trick will be managing both factors (which we will be absolutely lousy at, I'm sure).

[Michael K Gray]

So with that tweet shown above by Melody Hensley - she lays out her plan on stopping JV from attending WISCON2. "Prior" violations of this cons harassment policy will result in banning...

Yes, I spotted that contractually totally illegal clause as well.
Not just illegal, but laughably unenforceable.

If one contracts with the organisation for a ticket, both parties enter a mutually binding agreement:
Consideration from one party is to complete payment for a ticket.
Consideration from the other party is to supply the pre-stated services, including listed speakers, venues, lectures and sundries, as per documented rules.

Post hoc rules that are applied by either party, to the harm of the other party, render the contract null and void, and requires legal resolution that applies to any breach of contract. (Usually adjudication before a court of law)

tl;dr: Melody's pro-active Rule is a prosecutable tort if enacted.

(CFI's lawyers must be asleep at the wheel.)

(And again, why no child-minding facilities at a conference specifically aimed at why Women don't participate in this type of conference!?!?! FFS, isn't it obvious by now that they are scared away by the likes of Hensley et alia?)

[Al Stefanelli]

So...new thread and Renee is drunk off her ass...

Care for a cuppa coffee in my hotel room?

[Michael K Gray]

That implies you have also fixed the continuing growth in resource consumption issue. Reduce the population as far as you like. As long as it is non-zero, if the resource demands continue to rise year on year then you eventually exceed whatever limit you put on them.

Now, that is just being disingenuous there, oh Custardy Coward.
If I reduce it to the extremum of just one human, then makes a mockery of your scenario.
There was once a time when the human population was sustainable. This (again) demolishes your above assertion.
This is a continuum, not black & white, sir.
'Fess up and admit that I am correct.

Your "As long as it is non-zero..." nonsense is a travesty against mathematics, physics, poetry & common sense.
Leave it out, sunshine.

[Skeptic_Duh]

Ah - seeing the rest of the policy -

I see the CFI is keeping a secret black list - so much for "naming names".

Record-Keeping

CFI and its affiliates will make a written record of all complaints/incidents as soon as practicable. These records will be used in connection with implementing this policy. These records will be maintained in the Office of the President & CEO of CFI and will not be disclosed to individuals outside of the organization except as required by law.

Yep - JV is screwed and no way to check prior if he is screwed by Melody.

[Michael K Gray]

... FFS, isn't it obvious by now that they are scared away by the likes of Hensley et alia?)

Buggeration. The neutral "et alia" should have read the feminine "at aliæ", as it is women who are scaring away the other women.

The ghost of my Latin master haunts me to this day.

[Michael K Gray]

Ah - seeing the rest of the policy -

I see the CFI is keeping a secret black list - so much for "naming names".

Record-Keeping

CFI and its affiliates will make a written record of all complaints/incidents as soon as practicable. These records will be used in connection with implementing this policy. These records will be maintained in the Office of the President & CEO of CFI and will not be disclosed to individuals outside of the organization except as required by law.

Yep - JV is screwed and no way to check prior if he is screwed by Melody.

If he should be refused entry without proper notice, he is entitled to recover his ticket cost, travel costs, injury to his fame, and incidental costs, as well as damages.
Melody would be well advised to tread softly.

[AnonymousCowherd]

That implies you have also fixed the continuing growth in resource consumption issue. Reduce the population as far as you like. As long as it is non-zero, if the resource demands continue to rise year on year then you eventually exceed whatever limit you put on them.

Now, that is just being disingenuous there, oh Custardy Coward.
If I reduce it to the extremum of just one human, then makes a mockery of your scenario.
There was once a time when the human population was sustainable. This (again) demolishes your above assertion.
This is a continuum, not black & white, sir.
'Fess up and admit that I am correct.

Your "As long as it is non-zero..." nonsense is a travesty against mathematics, physics, poetry & common sense.
Leave it out, sunshine.

Even if the population is only one person, but that person's demand for resources rises continually, then resource consumption eventually overtakes the fixed amounts available if that person consumes long enough. And since we are playing fantasy football, why not? If that's what your argument that only population control is needed rests on, it's not me who's being disingenous.

If previous populations have been "sustainable" is was only because they weren't consuming enough, or increasing consumption fast enough, to start hitting the resource constraints. Since the prior population turned into the current population, which you believe is unsustainable, the prior one was hardly in a "sustainable" state (unless you have a special meaning for "sustainable" that doesn't include "can be maintained" somewhere).

So run the scenario back to the time of the "sustainable" population. Now, how do you prevent it becoming unsustainable? By limiting population growth and consumption growth. Failure to control both leads back here, sooner or later.

[Za-zen]

Ah - seeing the rest of the policy -

I see the CFI is keeping a secret black list - so much for "naming names".

Record-Keeping

CFI and its affiliates will make a written record of all complaints/incidents as soon as practicable. These records will be used in connection with implementing this policy. These records will be maintained in the Office of the President & CEO of CFI and will not be disclosed to individuals outside of the organization except as required by law.

Yep - JV is screwed and no way to check prior if he is screwed by Melody.

And there we have it. Remember what started this latest round of the shitstorm? No it wasn't a dispute over harassment policies per se. It was "the (secret) list of known sexists" which swanny benson et al wanted to ban from and pressurise conferences to stop inviting to speak. The fucking gossip vine being used to blacklist. That was the precursor to the row about harrasment policies, which was their fall back position, once they had established (through rants and feet stomping) that sexism was endemic within conferences and the circuit.

And there we have the CFI preparing to implement the ohhhh so secret list of people who have been "proven" to be harassers and sexists. Absolutely fucking laughable. The CFI is fucked beyond all recognition.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Melody would be well advised to tread softly.

Or, would she...

Free publicity, after all, is still free publicity regardless of what it's about. Learned that the hard (good?) way.

[Apples]

This is actually a big deal among mainstream feminism. It's called comparable worth. The idea is that they create an index figure for different job categories. The indexes are heavily weighted on time spent getting educated for the job and do not weigh risk or personal discomfort. As a result, jobs like coal miner tend to score closely to jobs like waitress, since niether requires a high school education. Yes, they are trying to push this into law, and Minnesota published their index on the web.

It's my understanding that Canada did this a while back. It made construction work and office cleaner the same pay grade. It didn't take long for all those construction workers to go for the nice cushy office jobs, creating a severe labor shortage within the construction industry.

Supply and demand 101 will bite you in the ass every time. In any dynamic and complex market like a labor market, if you want to avoid surpluses and shortages, you've got to allow the ever-fluctuating signals from the suppliers and the consumers to set the price (wage level). Even marxist economists know this. If you don't care about labor gluts/shortages and long bread lines leading to empty shelves (or state-subsidized ag-products rotting in government warehouses - hey! let's send this crap to Haiti with a big "courtesy of the lovely people of the USA" stencil), because your ideology trumps people's actual needs/preferences, lalala. This is one of those cases where your mileage will not really vary.

Of course, there are a plenty of things that make for unfree, distorted labor markets -- guild activity (club-password barriers to entry that have little/nothing to do with the ability to do the job), meaningless certification requirements (you've got to have a BA to do this clerical job), etc. Something like a health-care market (e.g. nurses) is a total cluster-fuck because the system is a hybrid government/insurance/private-provider set-up with guild hierarchy and lots of other factors that distort/obscure market signals.

[Apples]

Remember what started this latest round of the shitstorm? No it wasn't a dispute over harassment policies per se. It was "the (secret) list of known sexists" which swanny benson et al wanted to ban from and pressurise conferences to stop inviting to speak. The fucking gossip vine being used to blacklist. That was the precursor to the row about harrasment policies, which was their fall back position, once they had established (through rants and feet stomping) that sexism was endemic within conferences and the circuit.

Good point! It's so interesting to look back and recall how this shit actually unfolded...

[Apples]

Remember what started this latest round of the shitstorm? No it wasn't a dispute over harassment policies per se. It was "the (secret) list of known sexists" which swanny benson et al wanted to ban from and pressurise conferences to stop inviting to speak. The fucking gossip vine being used to blacklist. That was the precursor to the row about harrasment policies, which was their fall back position, once they had established (through rants and feet stomping) that sexism was endemic within conferences and the circuit.

Good point! It's so interesting to look back and recall how this shit actually unfolded...

[VickyCaramel]

Well, it was clear from the start they didn't even know what the hell their little social justice movement was going to do. Jen McCreight says it's the beginning of "third wave atheism", which to me was auto-fail because my atheism informs NOTHING about my stance on civil rights. The fact that I see no evidence for a divine hand in the universe does jack shit to my views on whether blacks, latinos, asians and whites, men and women (and all variants between) and straight and gay people should be treated with the same level of rights and responsibilities in society. So now we have this so-called "third wave atheism", as defined by FTB, give us the Richard "Cheney" Carrier manifesto: you are either with us or against us, if you are an atheist that isn't a "c.h.u.d." (still don't know what the fuck that is) then you join or get removed because you're a douchebag. OK, so Atheism Plus is third wave atheism and a movement for all atheists, even if you guys are being a bit dickish about it. I think I got it...

WRONG! Then we have the A+ forums, which were seemingly designed to be a shelter for seriously damaged people who are overly needy, who practically define themselves with badges of oppression, and who seem to delight in ironically trying to twist anyone who disagrees with them into an other, a boogeyman who they can then marginalize and pick on. Now the funny part is in the early days all the FTB leaders and defenders of A+ were actively promoting the forums and saying that this was the place to go to organize and whatnot, and over time as people pointed out the Lord of the Flies nature of the place, then they were saying that the forums were not indicative of A+, that A+ was a social movement and the forums were a safe haven for oppressed minority groups. Well make up your minds FFS. But then again, these people would actually have to read the forums and understand the level of batshit crazy, and none of them do or did, even as they banged the A+ drum.

So now we have A+ as it stands today. There's a forum on activity life support, most likely due to the nature of oppressive groupthink and heavy handed moderation, there's logos on PZ's and Greta's blogs, even though neither of them has really pushed the idea of A+ much in months, there's people like Matt Dillahunty who seem to continue to defend A+ with a bit of Stockholm Syndrome, even after his firsthand experience in the asylum, and then you have Richard Cheney, I mean Carrier, who pops up out of nowhere after months of silence and says "This is A+ in action!" despite admitting to not having read any of the A+ material and completely failing to notice how dead their grand so-called third wave has been. Just like the Tea Party and Occupy, the Atheism Plus movement has become irrelevant, defended by an ignorant and insular group of people who are so wrapped up in their ideals that they can't see that the public at large is dismissing them and relegating them to the dustbin of history. Maybe at most we'll see the forums last until their hosting period runs out (probably end of summer, since most internet hosting services run their plans in 1 and 2 year options) and some Surly-ramics with the A+ logo. Hell, maybe we'll even see PZ put an A+ logo in a slide at his next convention speech. But that's about all this movement has left since it's been quickly killed from within by it's own supporters, who acted as a cancer all by themselves.

Epic write up. Many thanks.


As I asked on Twitter, I am still interested to know who is the leader of this cult?

PZ certainly seems to think he is. I think he sees himself as the American Dawkins. The likes of Dillahunty seem to think he is the messiah. But things may be split along gender lines with a lot of the women being followers of Becca, who definitely promotes herself as 'fearless leader'. It is interesting, I can see them clashing at some point... or becoming an item.

[TheMan]

That implies you have also fixed the continuing growth in resource consumption issue. Reduce the population as far as you like. As long as it is non-zero, if the resource demands continue to rise year on year then you eventually exceed whatever limit you put on them.

Now, that is just being disingenuous there, oh Custardy Coward.
If I reduce it to the extremum of just one human, then makes a mockery of your scenario.
There was once a time when the human population was sustainable. This (again) demolishes your above assertion.
This is a continuum, not black & white, sir.
'Fess up and admit that I am correct.

Your "As long as it is non-zero..." nonsense is a travesty against mathematics, physics, poetry & common sense.
Leave it out, sunshine.

Sorry but at what time were things sustainable? I'm not aware of a time in history that there were no famine, starvation etc.

Even in indigenous cultures tribes went through phases. Progressed from nomadic to settlements then eventually to specialised processing to the present industrialised food production process.

I suggest nothing needs to be done. Once we reach that point where the depleted resources don't sustain the way we are living we adapt or die off...paving the way for some other life form (intelligent or not). It's always been this way and always will unless humans are the cause of ALL life to be eliminated and earth becomes a dry lump of a rock like our rocky planets in our solar system.

Natures checks and balances is supreme and I don't think humans are immune from those forces. ( sounds pantheistic I know). I'm not concerned if humans end up becoming extinct as unlikely as that may be.

[Scented Nectar]

Consultation on Census methodology is provided by Dr. Connie Bish, who earned a Ph.D. in Biological and Biomedical Science and a Master of Public Health degree in Epidemiology from Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. Currently, Dr. Bish is an instructional and applied epidemiologist. She has experience collecting and analyzing data ranging from clinical research protocols to population level surveillance of health outcomes. Dr. Bish utilizes statistical methodology that assists in teasing out the multifactorial individual, societal, cultural, and environmental components of health.

Dr. Bish should be downright ashamed of her methodology in this census. I wonder if her other data work is as shoddy. Anyone who would write that vague question without asking further details, should probably be put out to pasture. Although, to give her the benefit of the doubt, they only 'consulted' her, she may not have written them. It might have all been written by Sikes.

Also, sure enough, this is a money making scheme. They've made a business name for themselves: Secular Innovations LLC, but they are saying that the census is run by Secular Americans (capitalized). Is that also a business name? Some group or club made up to sound official or something?

I'm looking at a sample of what's in the census, and sure enough there's more vague shit. Like "In the past two years, have you met with an elected official to discuss an issue?" Only answers are yes or no. How do they know whether you've complained about keeping religious shit out of public places, or whether you really want someone to finally fix the pothole in the road near your house?

They are also very interested in whether or not you are a charity donor or not, including how much you've donated. I expect that's more to line up potential easy marks donors.

Smells corrupt as fuck. And a big fail at collecting data, if their purpose is really what they claim.

I did biology and psychology in undergrad-- we had numerous *courses* just on generating surveys. I assumed this one was written by someone with no training at all... not a goddamn PhD. I dont even know how that is possible...

Well, it's a relief to know that the proper ways to do surveys ARE being taught. Leave it to the feminists to totally screw it up even WITH alleged PHD schooling. I suppose that in any class of graduates, there are some that barely made it at the bottom of their class. Maybe the PHD was an honourary one bought/ordered from the back of a magazine.

[Scented Nectar]

Clearly I am late to this party... but I was surfing around YouTube and I came upon this guy:

[youtube]YgaWQiJLS08[/youtube]

Pray tell, who is this simpering, smug little self righteous prating twat? Does he have a Freethought Blogs handle? Can we play spot the FTB nym?

That's CasesAndMaterials. He also has a number of sock accounts. He's one of the most brain dead youtubers ever. He also gets freaked out around old people and for some reason, my eyes. They scare the fuck out of him which is quite funny actually. I can usually identify his sock accounts because they are full of freakout insults about my age and eyes. Notice his entire argument against Renee is to make fun of her appearance. He's for real somewhat retarded, I think. That's not just an insult; I think he really is. Also he hangs around with an absolutely bonkers insane woman called Buntzums. She is just as stupid.

And just in case Cases wanders over here...

[youtube]yDpfXog_Wwo[/youtube]

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

'fearless leader'..

Did she ever state so herself? Because for me, a "fearless leader" who is terrified or made unconfortable by a coffee offer (even in a lift at 4am) is quite the opposite to "fearless", let alone "leader".

[TheMan]

Epic write up. Many thanks.


As I asked on Twitter, I am still interested to know who is the leader of this cult?

PZ certainly seems to think he is. I think he sees himself as the American Dawkins. The likes of Dillahunty seem to think he is the messiah. But things may be split along gender lines with a lot of the women being followers of Becca, who definitely promotes herself as 'fearless leader'. It is interesting, I can see them clashing at some point... or becoming an item.

I don't think anyone has stepped up to be the leader. That's part of the problem. There was no guiding light other than a set of ideals and rules that were impossible to adhere to.

I'll stick with my theory that A+ forums were intentionally set up so that the noise was transferred off the FTB network and corralled into the "safe space" purely to reduce the nutty-way-left-off-the-park-batty shit fights on the blogs.

Simple and effective.

Like someone said earlier...if it took off they get the glory and if it fails they would have hoped it fades away in a memory hole somewhere.

Except the slymepit and other places have documented the farce.

[Scented Nectar]

Scented Nectar is exaggerating. She picked out something I said to one dude, and turned it into "throwing something back at the smart ass guy threatening to get you all arrested and sacrificing myself in the process (while purposely creating a false dichotomy of "mental and can't help herself or just a malicious person because she's totally going to get him in trouble for real and put herself through the traumatizing legal and public trouble.)"

And it's kind of paranoid to think that people would just get into legal trouble like that *snap*. Perhaps if I did actually report it myself, but seriously, where places I come from, people get away with shitloads of stuff that's actually illegal - if the minor isn't just trying to throw people in jail. Granted, I don't actually believe she's worried about the forum - if I claim that something happened here, in the text of the forum (hell, even PMs!) and it uh, DIDN'T, then how can people get into trouble? Police can easily check. I'm not risking anyone on the forum and she really needs to stop having her panties in a bunch,

and also drop the old habits of her radfem cult - making her enemies look superbad by saying "omg, they'll result in [this] for us!" This is no different from that smart ass on a thread who said that us Slymepitters are honestly dangerous and would stalk them or physically attack them. :roll:

Eh, once a radfem, always a radfem, maybe? She still reeks of their engineering tactics. I never did like the fact that she used to be in cahoots with them for SOOO long, but I didn't want to be someone who didn't let someone bury their past because I've changed from a bad place before... but I was never that judgmental person for THAT fucking long, and c'mon, ew... that cult... is a major sin.

So anyway, no. Even if some scary, mean adult did something to me - coerced me into doing vomit douching on camera for him and threatening to send it to everyone everywhere's, I wouldn't report it. That would mean so much bad for me too. I'd have to testify, go through a totally warped atmosphere at home, worry about the emotions of my adults, etc. I'd be taking myself down with them, and I've gone through enough. Do not ask.

People who are honeypots - that is, works without the cops to get people thrown into jail - are a creepy type of malicious to me. They don't even care about what happens with themselves and what it makes them look like (and it would stir negative attention for them too). When people are set up with cops, I don't think they go on a trial or anything, or have their victimization reported and talked about.

If you are ever going to quote me again using "quotation marks", at least don't change my fucking words. I think you're old enough to understand how quoting works. If you are paraphrasing, say so, or at least add: "she said... or something along those lines."

Hmm, you even have a name "honeypots" for false accusers? You're really into that, aren't you. False accusers, and even people who threaten to and then say they were just joking, are some of the lowest scum on earth.

Also, I only change back into a radfem on the full moon. Boo! Now, fuck off.

Maybe YOU should join feminism. They highly approve of false accusations, especially of child rape. Look up the false memory craze of the 80s and 90s, where any bad dream or depression meant that a quack feminist therapist would tell the patient that she was raped by her father when too young to remember and that that's the root of the bad dreams or depressions. Many families were needlessly destroyed by that.

You would fit right in with them. Also, back in 2010, youtube's feminists did this:

[youtube]qqEApmVwR9E[/youtube]

[UnbelieveSteve]

LOL this is funny shit. Ophelia Benson RT's a poe tweet and David Silverman falls for it. Bad Ophie bad!
Melody Hensley spouts off some of the finer details about her/their harassment policy.
Today is a good day.
http://storify.com/OpheIiaBenson/david- ... a-poe-than
:lol:

[Apples]

apologies for double-post above -- I promise I didn't submit twice, so... :roll:

As I asked on Twitter, I am still interested to know who is the leader of this cult?

Well, Hyperdeath is the admin for the forum, which as far as I can tell is the only real place that the cult exists in name. Ceepolk is the bitchiest and most authoritarian mod, followed closely by Flewellyn, SubMor, Piegasm, and maybe a few others.

If you ask Setar, it's "leaderless."

seems to me like there's a lot of authoritarian forced-framing, from this whole crap about secret forums creating hierarchies of preferred users, to the arguments to the effect that mods/enforcers equal authority and thus mean we can't call ourselves leaderless.

it really just seems like people default to the authoritarian box, even when you try to take things out of said box.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... start=1800

Did she ever state so herself? Because for me, a "fearless leader" who is terrified or made unconfortable by a coffee offer (even in a lift at 4am) is quite the opposite to "fearless", let alone "leader".

My sentiments exactly. She describes herself on her Twitter as "Fearless leader of Skepchick.org, podcaster for SGU & IPN, writer, ice cream enthusiast."

[Scented Nectar]

Renee, you're both in my thoughts and stuff, but I'm quite lousy at putting things like that into words. I hope it turns out ok.

[Scented Nectar]

Oh, and can we please get Eucli out of moderation now? It's fucking ridiculous. (Oh, and Scented, somedumbguy, get off the fainting couch around Eucli, for crying out loud, you're embarassing yourselves.)

If it weren't for the false accusation threat, I'd have only found her annoying. But when someone threatens to falsely accuse people of picking on a minor, and that minor is sending uninvited sexually explicit emails to people (such as Lousy Canuck), that's a little too fucked up with potential of getting the forum shut down.

[Scented Nectar]

The War on Sex Workers
An unholy alliance of feminists, cops, and conservatives hurts women in the name of defending their rights.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/01/21/t ... ex-workers

And Yanks still wonder why the rest of the globe sees them as mostly retarded troglodytes?

What a fucking bitch! Steinem worked to TAKE AWAY sex workers' healthcare and AIDS info/protection, and their income of course.

Some feminist you are, Gloria, you murderous cunt. I wonder how many sex workers (most of whom are women) and their families, you've just signed the death warrants of.

[Apples]

LOL this is funny shit. Ophelia Benson RT's a poe tweet and David Silverman falls for it. Bad Ophie bad!
Melody Hensley spouts off some of the finer details about her/their harassment policy.
Today is a good day.
http://storify.com/OpheIiaBenson/david- ... a-poe-than

Classic Ophie. Can't ever get her head out of her own fanny. If no one else is oppressing her at the moment, she will speedily find a way to oppress herself.

[d4m10n]

In other words, nobody involved in creating it has the slightest background in sociology.

I'm uncomfortable with the term census as used here. A census is a serious attempt to gather data on an entire population. In this case, the relevant population would be millions of secular Americans.

Using accepted census methodology on a small self-selected sample of the population? Bad juju.

[Mykeru]

Oh, and can we please get Eucli out of moderation now? It's fucking ridiculous. (Oh, and Scented, somedumbguy, get off the fainting couch around Eucli, for crying out loud, you're embarassing yourselves.)

If it weren't for the false accusation threat, I'd have only found her annoying. But when someone threatens to falsely accuse people of picking on a minor, and that minor is sending uninvited sexually explicit emails to people (such as Lousy Canuck), that's a little too fucked up with potential of getting the forum shut down.

I was all good on not banning Eucli for simply being annoying. As soon as she pulled that bit of extortion, essentially giving a head's up to what she will do if she doesn't get her way, she crossed the line into threatening. She shouldn't have been put in moderation for that. She should have been removed from the forum entirely.

Stop complaining.

[TheMan]

LOL this is funny shit. Ophelia Benson RT's a poe tweet and David Silverman falls for it. Bad Ophie bad!
Melody Hensley spouts off some of the finer details about her/their harassment policy.
Today is a good day.
http://storify.com/OpheIiaBenson/david- ... a-poe-than
:lol:

It is funny...geeze the picture of the pope as an avatar is a give away isn't it?

[Scented Nectar]

LOL this is funny shit. Ophelia Benson RT's a poe tweet and David Silverman falls for it. Bad Ophie bad!
Melody Hensley spouts off some of the finer details about her/their harassment policy.
Today is a good day.
http://storify.com/OpheIiaBenson/david- ... a-poe-than
:lol:

It is funny...geeze the picture of the pope as an avatar is a give away isn't it?

Dave Silverman must have made the mistake of thinking Ophie has a sense of humour, and that it showed in her avatar. :D

[Za-zen]

Hey okie demon, watched your latest godcast, good to see you're an Ulster zombie too, i'll send you tickets to ravenhill.

One point i would like top open up, is the nature of the pyt. While yes i agree we as humans do lean to the in/our group thing, (evo psych may have something to say about that rebecca) i think the pyt has by the fact that it is grounded in the open discussion and exchange of ideas, a safety valve in place.

[Metalogic42]

Scented Nectar is exaggerating. She picked out something I said to one dude, and turned it into "throwing something back at the smart ass guy threatening to get you all arrested and sacrificing myself in the process (while purposely creating a false dichotomy of "mental and can't help herself or just a malicious person because she's totally going to get him in trouble for real and put herself through the traumatizing legal and public trouble.)"

You know what the cool thing about this forum is? We can go back and see what was actually said, because, y'know...no edits.

Perhaps if I did actually report it myself, but seriously, where places I come from, people get away with shitloads of stuff that's actually illegal - if the minor isn't just trying to throw people in jail. Granted, I don't actually believe she's worried about the forum - if I claim that something happened here, in the text of the forum (hell, even PMs!) and it uh, DIDN'T, then how can people get into trouble? Police can easily check. I'm not risking anyone on the forum and she really needs to stop having her panties in a bunch,

It must be nice to live in Setar's candyland utopia where the cops let you do anything you want.

and also drop the old habits of her radfem cult - making her enemies look superbad by saying "omg, they'll result in [this] for us!" This is no different from that smart ass on a thread who said that us Slymepitters are honestly dangerous and would stalk them or physically attack them. :roll:

Eh, once a radfem, always a radfem, maybe? She still reeks of their engineering tactics. I never did like the fact that she used to be in cahoots with them for SOOO long, but I didn't want to be someone who didn't let someone bury their past because I've changed from a bad place before... but I was never that judgmental person for THAT fucking long, and c'mon, ew... that cult... is a major sin.

You're doing a pretty damn good job of making yourself look "superbad".

So anyway, no. Even if some scary, mean adult did something to me - coerced me into doing vomit douching on camera for him and threatening to send it to everyone everywhere's, I wouldn't report it. That would mean so much bad for me too. I'd have to testify, go through a totally warped atmosphere at home, worry about the emotions of my adults, etc. I'd be taking myself down with them, and I've gone through enough. Do not ask.

You don't fucking get it, do you? It's not just that you might report someone, it's that anyone might, and even if no one did, it's still illegal. We don't engage in illegal activity here.

Big whoop, Lsuoma. I never claimed that you were moderating insults I say back - that wouldn't be a ban, just being treated like some kid - but I'm basically banned.

No, you're not. The only posts of yours that won't go through are those that are legally sketchy. Got a problem with posting within the bounds of the law? Too goddamn fucking bad.

God damn, going back to read new posts knowing what I just fucking said isn't even there & that it already wouldn't matter by NOW if it was just approved this second, 'cause the forum has moved fast, is too irritating. Lsuoma, quit acting like this is doesn't basically ruin it for me. Either take me off moderation, or just delete my account and the posts along with it. Deleting my posts would only help you, right? So that those posts that are obviouslyriskyanddangerousforthisforum aren't seen. If, for some reason, you wouldn't delete my posts along with my account (although that would say to me that you didn't put me on moderation for the reason you claim), then don't delete my account.

No one is forcing you to post. If you don't like it, stop posting.

Are
You
Kidding Me???

...No. You don't get to do that. Do your god damn job.

I for one think Lsuoma handled the situation excellently. U mad?

"This message has been submitted successfully, but it will need to be approved by a moderator before it is publicly viewable. You will be notified when your post has been approved."

What's with the false last part? I'm never notified when my post is approved. Hate this moderation shit. Usually just leave forums if they put that for too long on new members.

If you usually leave when stuff like this happens, why are you still here?

------

And going to disable the spoiler tag too: I demonstrated a complete break of php using this JS crap to my CSO this afternoon.

You cunt! *hides all the spoiler tags before Lsuoma can throw them out*

There are probably people who are dumb enough to think it might result in mutant killer tomatoes, but for others there would be concerns about introduction of alien species... what effect will it have on local populations of insects and the knock on effect, for example.

The alien species concern may be valid, but only for individual GMOs. I read "anti-GMO crowd" as those people who are opposed to GMOs in general.

Also....mmm, corset.

As I asked on Twitter, I am still interested to know who is the leader of this cult?

PZ certainly seems to think he is. I think he sees himself as the American Dawkins. The likes of Dillahunty seem to think he is the messiah. But things may be split along gender lines with a lot of the women being followers of Becca, who definitely promotes herself as 'fearless leader'. It is interesting, I can see them clashing at some point... or becoming an item.

No man can be the leader. PZ, for example, grovels at Twatson's feet. If I had to pick one person to identify as a de facto leader, it would probably be Melody Hensley, due to the CFI power she holds.

[Apples]

I'm uncomfortable with the term census as used here. A census is a serious attempt to gather data on an entire population. In this case, the relevant population would be millions of secular Americans.

Using accepted census methodology on a small self-selected sample of the population? Bad juju.

Submariner linked above to this good post on secularism.org.uk:

Atheists respond in their thousands to ‘census’, but can we trust the data?
http://www.secularism.org.uk/blog/2013/ ... t-the-data

The census appears to have no closing date, which means it has the potential to collect data indefinitely, funding permitting: it also solicits donations. At the time of writing, one month after the re-launch, the site had attracted nearly 170,000 responses from around the world.

The first thing to strike the casual observer is that this is not a census as normally perceived. A census according to one dictionary definition is "an official count or survey, especially of a population". Censuses are carried out by governments to gather information on the country's population, their location, age, household occupancy and so on. Participation is compulsory. This contrasts with the Atheist Census which is entirely voluntary with the participants being self-selecting. The census bears more relation to a survey conducted by a market research organisation, except that the former is 'opt-in' while the latter is 'opt-out'. A normal survey is driven by the organisation conducting it while this census is mainly driven by those who choose active participation.

Another difference is that the Atheist Census is entirely web-based with no user identification required other than an email address, which opens it up to potential abuse by participants using multiple email addresses.

[UnbelieveSteve]

LOL this is funny shit. Ophelia Benson RT's a poe tweet and David Silverman falls for it. Bad Ophie bad!
Melody Hensley spouts off some of the finer details about her/their harassment policy.
Today is a good day.
http://storify.com/OpheIiaBenson/david- ... a-poe-than
:lol:

It is funny...geeze the picture of the pope as an avatar is a give away isn't it?

It's pretty obvious Ophie is not the pope, my precious.
http://i.imgur.com/SHIBwhD.jpg

[Gumby]

'fearless leader'..

Did she ever state so herself? Because for me, a "fearless leader" who is terrified or made unconfortable by a coffee offer (even in a lift at 4am) is quite the opposite to "fearless", let alone "leader".

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 204d04.jpg

[d4m10n]

Ah - seeing the rest of the policy -

I see the CFI is keeping a secret black list - so much for "naming names".

Record-Keeping

CFI and its affiliates will make a written record of all complaints/incidents as soon as practicable. These records will be used in connection with implementing this policy. These records will be maintained in the Office of the President & CEO of CFI and will not be disclosed to individuals outside of the organization except as required by law.

Yep - JV is screwed and no way to check prior if he is screwed by Melody.

If he should be refused entry without proper notice, he is entitled to recover his ticket cost, travel costs, injury to his fame, and incidental costs, as well as damages. Melody would be well advised to tread softly.

I've asked Lindsay to provide Justin with reasonable notice, he said the committee won't be taking up the issue until May.

[Za-zen]

How much notice will that give him?

[welch]

Mark Neil (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 528#p55528) said:

She has what she needs thanks to donations, thanked us for our concern and doesn't want to be used as a pawn in the political back and forth so asked not to use her to shame PZ et all. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't see her being ungrateful. Perhaps you can elaborate?

No, she did not "thank us". She made a generic non-specific thank you to doners highlighted by an accusation that the Pytters who did donate only did so because they want to score points against FfTB. And that's bullshit; that is pissing on the people who helped her out.

I can easily see how it could look like is whole thing was to score points. I don't think that was the only reason at all, but was it *a* reason, maybe a small one? Yeah, gotta say I think the fact it would make the FFTB people look bad factored in. And given reed's views on the "movement" in general, I can also see why she'd say that. She already feels like a bit of a pawn in someone else's game.

She said thank you. No, she didn't name names, big deal. Your ego needs a specific thank you that badly?

[ERV]

Ah - seeing the rest of the policy -

I see the CFI is keeping a secret black list - so much for "naming names".

Record-Keeping

CFI and its affiliates will make a written record of all complaints/incidents as soon as practicable. These records will be used in connection with implementing this policy. These records will be maintained in the Office of the President & CEO of CFI and will not be disclosed to individuals outside of the organization except as required by law.

Yep - JV is screwed and no way to check prior if he is screwed by Melody.

Beyond JV-- Here we have a list of accusations/incidents that the accused cannot see or defend themselves against.

Accusation = Guilt

No trial, no evidence, no lawyer, no judge--> GUILTY

Thats fucking messed up, CFI.

[welch]

Just reread Eucliwoo's posts. Clearly 100% troll, trying to push. A waste of atoms that could be used to form something useful like faeces or mud daubers.

Are
You
Kidding Me???

...No. You don't get to do that. Do your god damn job.

God, you're cowardly. (Points for fast approving due to you being active. Minus points for double posting in my name - something I took the time not to do. If anyone complains, it's your fault.) You just don't want to respond to my request. You're the only moderator on here, so yeah, I'm going to bother *you* with it. - TAKE. ME. OFF. MODERATION. OR DELETE MY POSTS *AND* MY ACCOUNT. IF YOU REFUSE TO DO ONE IN THE LATTER (DELETING BOTH), THEN JUST FORGET IT. DO YOU UNDER STAND? "CLEARLY A TROLL" MY ASS.

If I'm going to be shaken off this forum, I want a clean break from it. Requesting your account or posts be deleted isn't fucking troll behavior and plenty of people are SERIOUS when they ask you to. Fucking shit moderator, this one.

FREEDOM!!!

Simmer down braveheart, the yellimanating only shows why modding you isn't the worst idea ever.

[d4m10n]

How much notice will that give him?

Effectively none, but perhaps enough to spare him the bus trip.

[Gumby]

Meanwhile, the secret forum debate rages on at A+.

From "marinerachel":

It ultimately doesn't matter if this is indeed what this forum wants for it's self. That is fine. It's the dishonesty in saying "Oh, well, those people have demonstrated themselves to be trustworthy to not be shitty" that's troublesome. Ultimately though, the prominent voices on the forum get to decide what shape it takes, whether it meets more than a couple dozen people's need or not. They get to decide whether someone's bad behaviour is outweighed by their good or not and apply sanctions however they please, whether others like it or not.

Well, ceepolk can't have anyone insinuating that there is a tyrannical clique in the forum, so...

I'm afraid, marinerachel, that your failure to address setar's post has put you in a difficult position. you've walked yourself to the edge of the precipice, to put it metaphorically.

I'm now requiring you to respond to it.

Requiring.

Anybody else who has failed to respond to it while continuing criticisms thus far has been banned and won't be back.

You've walked all the way to the edge, you among the rest who have repeatedly ignored setar's message and points in favor of accusations, insinuations, and generally just being complaining complainers who complain.

so answer setar, or continue the precipice metaphor how you will. be direct, be clear, and be specific.

If you think going away for a month - or two months - or three months will free you from this requirement, I advise you to re-think.

For your convenience, here is a link to the post so you don't have to go searching for it.

I'm tired of your games. I will see an end to them. I invite you to choose to stop playing them or get thee hence.

Um, dumbass, you just proved marinerachel's point.

[Za-zen]

Ah - seeing the rest of the policy -

I see the CFI is keeping a secret black list - so much for "naming names".

Record-Keeping

CFI and its affiliates will make a written record of all complaints/incidents as soon as practicable. These records will be used in connection with implementing this policy. These records will be maintained in the Office of the President & CEO of CFI and will not be disclosed to individuals outside of the organization except as required by law.

Yep - JV is screwed and no way to check prior if he is screwed by Melody.

Beyond JV-- Here we have a list of accusations/incidents that the accused cannot see or defend themselves against.

Accusation = Guilt

No trial, no evidence, no lawyer, no judge--> GUILTY

Thats fucking messed up, CFI.

Abbie you aren't questioning women's ways of knowing are you? you rape apologising gender traitor scum.

Don't worry you can be damn sure your name will be top of that "known list of harassers"

[Za-zen]

How much notice will that give him?

Effectively none, but perhaps enough to spare him the bus trip.

Convenient.

[ERV]

Ive just made three women uncomfortable in OKC Atheists group by challenging their anti-vax/anti-GMO positions.

SEXISM!!!!

Yeah that was awkward with these 4 absolutely uneducated women up against the entire group. I'm guessing they're all scared mothers???

And a few more have come out of the woodwork... Woo, its a girl thing?

Except women have stepped up to counter them (PhD and MD students)... Skepticism, its a girl thing?

PATRIARCHY!!!!

[bhoytony]

I think this video explains Eucliwood's position

[youtube]dLuEY6jN6gY[/youtube]

[Apples]

Heh. Glob the Funct, the A-plusser who wrote a completely innocent limerick about bankers and ended up being shamed and temp-banned in the aftermath, came back to start a thread titled, "Kafkaesque."

I was banned for a week, for reasons I'm still not clear about.
When I asked for clarification, I was told by a moderator to drop the issue, or my ban would become permanent.

This bothers me deeply.
Is there not a safe space within a safe space where we can discuss this openly?

Right, so permaban it is then...

Gotta love the "off with his head!" efficiency of these folks.
http://amodernmilitarymother.com/wp-con ... r-head.jpg

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3782

[Gumby]

Mark Neil (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 528#p55528) said:

She has what she needs thanks to donations, thanked us for our concern and doesn't want to be used as a pawn in the political back and forth so asked not to use her to shame PZ et all. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't see her being ungrateful. Perhaps you can elaborate?

No, she did not "thank us". She made a generic non-specific thank you to doners highlighted by an accusation that the Pytters who did donate only did so because they want to score points against FfTB. And that's bullshit; that is pissing on the people who helped her out.

I can easily see how it could look like is whole thing was to score points. I don't think that was the only reason at all, but was it *a* reason, maybe a small one? Yeah, gotta say I think the fact it would make the FFTB people look bad factored in. And given reed's views on the "movement" in general, I can also see why she'd say that. She already feels like a bit of a pawn in someone else's game.

She said thank you. No, she didn't name names, big deal. Your ego needs a specific thank you that badly?

The only person I can speak for is myself. My disposable income is extremely limited, and I would never spend money in order to score a cheap point off FtB. My intentions were simply to throw a few bucks to someone in need. I couldn't care less about "showing FTB up" with regards to helping Reed. I can "show FTB up" for free with my posts here.

However, since Reed has stated she doesn't want any more donations, fine by me. I'm happy she got sufficient help. I just don't wish to be included in blanket accusations of "showing up" anyone, because that just ain't so. Blanket accusations are for non-skeptics.

[Za-zen]

Heh. Glob the Funct, the A-plusser who wrote a completely innocent limerick about bankers and ended up being shamed and temp-banned in the aftermath, came back to start a thread titled, "Kafkaesque."

I was banned for a week, for reasons I'm still not clear about.
When I asked for clarification, I was told by a moderator to drop the issue, or my ban would become permanent.

This bothers me deeply.
Is there not a safe space within a safe space where we can discuss this openly?

Right, so permaban it is then...

Gotta love the "off with his head!" efficiency of these folks.
http://amodernmilitarymother.com/wp-con ... r-head.jpg

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3782

So piegasm has outed herself as hensley!

[welch]

Renee,

Not much I can say besides haaaapyyyy thoughts.

[welch]

Mark Neil (http://www.slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... 528#p55528) said:

She has what she needs thanks to donations, thanked us for our concern and doesn't want to be used as a pawn in the political back and forth so asked not to use her to shame PZ et all. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't see her being ungrateful. Perhaps you can elaborate?

No, she did not "thank us". She made a generic non-specific thank you to doners highlighted by an accusation that the Pytters who did donate only did so because they want to score points against FfTB. And that's bullshit; that is pissing on the people who helped her out.

I can easily see how it could look like is whole thing was to score points. I don't think that was the only reason at all, but was it *a* reason, maybe a small one? Yeah, gotta say I think the fact it would make the FFTB people look bad factored in. And given reed's views on the "movement" in general, I can also see why she'd say that. She already feels like a bit of a pawn in someone else's game.

She said thank you. No, she didn't name names, big deal. Your ego needs a specific thank you that badly?

The only person I can speak for is myself. My disposable income is extremely limited, and I would never spend money in order to score a cheap point off FtB. My intentions were simply to throw a few bucks to someone in need. I couldn't care less about "showing FTB up" with regards to helping Reed. I can "show FTB up" for free with my posts here.

However, since Reed has stated she doesn't want any more donations, fine by me. I'm happy she got sufficient help. I just don't wish to be included in blanket accusations of "showing up" anyone, because that just ain't so. Blanket accusations are for non-skeptics.

If you're comfortable with your own motivations, why do you even care?

[d4m10n]

Hey okie demon, watched your latest godcast, good to see you're an Ulster zombie too, i'll send you tickets to ravenhill.

One point i would like top open up, is the nature of the pyt. While yes i agree we as humans do lean to the in/our group thing, (evo psych may have something to say about that rebecca) i think the pyt has by the fact that it is grounded in the open discussion and exchange of ideas, a safety valve in place.

Pretty much every group in freethought claims to be “grounded in the open discussion and exchange of ideas” and that includes FtB and CFI. I would agree that the Pyt tends to live up to it a lot more, as we saw with Louis, for example, not to mention all the running disagreements among regulars.

p.s. SUFTU!

[codelette]

The only person I can speak for is myself. My disposable income is extremely limited, and I would never spend money in order to score a cheap point off FtB. My intentions were simply to throw a few bucks to someone in need. I couldn't care less about "showing FTB up" with regards to helping Reed. I can "show FTB up" for free with my posts here.

However, since Reed has stated she doesn't want any more donations, fine by me. I'm happy she got sufficient help. I just don't wish to be included in blanket accusations of "showing up" anyone, because that just ain't so. Blanket accusations are for non-skeptics.

Same intent here.
My family and I were homeless at some point and even with my grandparents help it was a very stressful situation. I can only imagine the stress is tenfold when you add gender dysphoria and discrimination of transpeople to the mix.
Anywho, Andrew, thanks for the update. I'm glad that Natalie found the support she needed and I wish her luck with her future endeavors.

[Gumby]

If you're comfortable with your own motivations, why do you even care?

Because I don't like it when smug know-it-alls presume to wrongly tell me what my motivations are.

[Reap]

I'll just leave this here.
http://i.imgur.com/KrZ2aVR.jpg
and
http://i.imgur.com/8C0kHwL.jpg
Oophie realizes it's her own damn fault for RTing a parody tweet.
:lol:

Does Melody say "Everyone has to follow the harassment policy PRIOR TO and during the conference" How does that work? If you EVER violate the harassment policy then you are not allowed to attend? What is the scope of this control over a persons actions? I hope she means threats and such but if I go on an ass-grabbing spree the night before and it doesn't involve anyone attending does that mean I'm banned from the conference?

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

As I asked on Twitter, I am still interested to know who is the leader of this cult?

PZ certainly seems to think he is. I think he sees himself as the American Dawkins. The likes of Dillahunty seem to think he is the messiah. But things may be split along gender lines with a lot of the women being followers of Becca, who definitely promotes herself as 'fearless leader'. It is interesting, I can see them clashing at some point... or becoming an item.


No man can be the leader. PZ, for example, grovels at Twatson's feet. If I had to pick one person to identify as a de facto leader, it would probably be Melody Hensley, due to the CFI power she holds.

Just how much power does Hensley have? You could read her recent tweets as being very careful to limit herself to specifying CFI policy without being overtly partial. I would be inclined to take Lindsay at his word that the CFI is not partisan until he proves otherwise. For all we know he could have put a rocket up Hensley's arse and she's on notice.

[Lsuoma]

(And as I no longer sponsor the current thread, can I take this corset off now?)

Fap fap fap. (Just exercising the new sponsor.)

[Za-zen]

Hey okie demon, watched your latest godcast, good to see you're an Ulster zombie too, i'll send you tickets to ravenhill.

One point i would like top open up, is the nature of the pyt. While yes i agree we as humans do lean to the in/our group thing, (evo psych may have something to say about that rebecca) i think the pyt has by the fact that it is grounded in the open discussion and exchange of ideas, a safety valve in place.

Pretty much every group in freethought claims to be “grounded in the open discussion and exchange of ideas” and that includes FtB and CFI. I would agree that the Pyt tends to live up to it a lot more, as we saw with Louis, for example, not to mention all the running disagreements among regulars.

p.s. SUFTU!

Have you heard the last verse version sung in bars for drunk eejits who forget the songs over?

Sit down for the ulstermen

[youtube]KZABqHOOB94[/youtube]

[Reap]

So with that tweet shown above by Melody Hensley - she lays out her plan on stopping JV from attending WISCON2. "Prior" violations of this cons harassment policy will result in banning...

The Fuck?

I predict that she will let him get to the door, then make this big production on how "his kind isn't welcomed here" - and then ban him - wasting money and time.

Then she will go in for the group hugs and say how she is a brave warrior - fighting the injustice.

Yea I can see that happening. If she does try any of that crap I'm gonna be pissed. That is the kind of shit that needs to stop.