Now sponsored by [spoiler]my dick[/spoiler]

[Remick]

A related point is this: no one ever demands that Pakistan and India merge into a "one state solution". Yet Israel has more legitimacy than either of these states, and I'd reckon more than the United States and Canada.

Sure, because Israel belongs to the Jews, ever since they marched out of the desert and god gave it to them. I blame the Romans who completely cleared the promised land of every single last Jew so that those pesky Palestinians could materialize out of thin fucking air and steal their land... it was probably demon magic. Palestinians are probably demons as they obviously have no semitic heritage and just kinda appeared.

Israel is completely legit. The bible (sorta) says so.

Good point. You are a genius. I don't know why I never noticed this before.

Yeah, please, PLEASE explain how the Israel has more legitimacy as a state than the US or Canada, or India, or Pakistan.

Who the fuck brought up one state solution?

Actually, nevermind, don't try to explain anything, seeing as how you will obviously fail to do so. Save us all the time.

[Git]

You might want to ask the original poster, who was in a huff that a Jew (Jerry Coyne) dared to find a blatantly anti-semitic cartoon to be more than a wee bit problematic.

I think Jerry is an atheist, not a jew.

He is Jewish, not a follower of Judaism.

[katamari Damassi]

Don't you fucking dare suggest I am getting anything from anything other than my own logic and my own thought processes. Take your Chomskyite bullshit and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

Up above you posted yet another special-pleading screed basically excusing Islam and giving it special treatment. So fuck off again for that. Typical fucking liberal Dhimmitude bullshit.

Again, just fuck off you worthless piece of terrorist-supporting shit.

Dhimmitude? Someone has been spending time on Pam Geller's website.

[welch]

Wait, when the fuck did living in the US make you a fucking ethnic group? How the fuck does that even work? Look, I agree that being jewish is far, far more than the Torah, the Talmud, and keeping Kosher, (or not), but that literally makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

OK, fair point, the US is a bad example. But by and large, with exceptions of course, nationalities tend to originate in many many cases on ethnicities. Take for example the former Yugoslavia for example. There is a common genetic component to the Jewish people, and this is reflected in their status in UK (and many other country's laws), where they are treated, like Sikhs, as having "common heritage".

A related point is this: no one ever demands that Pakistan and India merge into a "one state solution". Yet Israel has more legitimacy than either of these states, and I'd reckon more than the United States and Canada.

Wait, I know i'm going to regret this, because it's not like you can write coherently on a good day, but how the fuck does Israel have more or less legitimacy than India? Or Canada? Or any fucking country? I don't actually give much of a fuck. Britain created a shitload of problems when they created a state, then skipped the fuck out, and it's been a mess ever sense. I don't care WHY they kill each other. Dead is dead. The reason written on the bullet is of little importance to the corpse.

I didn't give a fuck about the Troubles in Ireland either beyond STOP KILLING EACH OTHER YOU FUCKING GOONS, and I have actual roots there.

I refuse, absolutely fucking refuse to take either side seriously until they stop killing each other and start acting like grownups. Until then, they're all children with dangerous toys. Let them all kill each other until they are finally so tired of it that the reasons why stop mattering.

Then I'll care.

[Dick Strawkins]

Again, just fuck off you worthless piece of terrorist-supporting shit.

Ophelia?

Is that you?
:shock:

[welch]

So, this: http://skepchick.org/2013/01/dragoncon- ... -molester/

Twatson decides she's a legal expert now. She starts off by saying "DragonCon has had the past 12 years to come up with a solution to cut him out, such as dissolving and reincorporating, but they haven’t." in the article, and then says this: "I’m not saying that I or Skepchick as a whole will definitely be boycotting DragonCon, as it’s something I have to think a lot about. But I do hope that DragonCon’s leadership will take this seriously and do the right thing, and save us all from a difficult decision."

Let's see what the comments say...

One of the links on srbissette.com claims that current Dragon*Con leadership tried to freeze Kramer out of his dividends but was forced by the courts to eventually pay him. It’ll be interesting to see what D*C does next.

Per what Phlebas says, and the details in the Atlanta Magazine article – it would seem that any payments being made to Kramer have only been done reluctantly. Quoting the article: “[Kramer] was forced to file the second suit last year in an effort to collect his 2011 dividend of $154,000.” Pat Henry refused to comment for the article, but reading between the lines there it seems like he’s trying to do the right thing here.

I used to be a Director of Dragon*Con (until 1997), so I’ve known Pat Henry for quite some time. (I’ve also knew Kramer back in those days, and visited his Duluth home mentioned in the article once, over 15 years ago). My impression is that Henry is a good person and trying to do the right thing. But like anyone, he is bound by legal agreements he’s entered into, and Dragon*Con’s incorporation LONG predates these accusations. I don’t think its reasonable to launch a boycott to try to get an organization to retroactively rewrite legal documents it couldn’t have known would have these implications.

They’ve cut Kramer out of the running of the convention, expunged him from the website, and so on. They’ve banned collections for Kramer’s legal fund. The lawsuits show they are not cooperating with him.

It sounds like the Dragoncon organization has tried to sever the links by attempting to buy Kramer out. They refused to have online fundraiser links for his legal fund, and are clearly no longer working with him in any way. They’re also regularly forcing him to sue for annual dividends, according to one of the articles you linked. That certainly sounds like they are making strong efforts to cut him out!

Suggesting that the organization needs to do something more ignores the legal steps they’re already taking, and the additional step of undergoing the legal costs and logistical nightmare of dissolving and reorganizing a 5 hotel convention without skipping a year of the convention actually being held is not a simple thing.

So yeah, it sounds like they're *trying* to cut him out of any financial gain from DragonCon, but unfortunately previous legal agreements prevent it. Basically, their hands are tied. So, Rebecca will listen to reason, right?





Silly me, of course not:

“Nancy Collins’ post implies that dissolving Dragon*Con as an organization and reforming it is a simple thing to do. I know absolutely nothing about such things, but I bet she’s wrong. ”

I agree. But still, it’s gotta be easier than paying this asshole $150K a year and/or going to court every year to fight paying him $150K.

I guess they should magically subvert the legal system to "do the right thing"? Finally, someone calls her out:

This is all beyond the realm of bullshit.
There is a butt-ton of legal reasons why even dissolving would not prevent any of this.
Kramer has ZERO, beyond ZERO to do with Dragon*Con since he was forced out. Any payments to him are due to legal requirements. Even *IF* the attempted to dissolve, (The stupidest idea ever), and re-form there would STILL be legal requirements due to … guess what… the law.

This is, yet another, tempest that people just want to make a big deal out of. Don’t be the equivalent of Dragon*Con 9/11 Truthers… we are skeptics for all that is reasonable.

And she responds:

“Kramer has ZERO, beyond ZERO to do with Dragon*Con since he was forced out.”

That is demonstrably untrue. They may want him to have zero to do with DragonCon but as a shareholder, he is very much still present. And it’s frankly ridiculous and insulting that you would cast these concerns as equivalent to a 9/11 conspiracy theory.

Leading to this absolute gem:

@Rebecca seriously? I know you are far more intelligent than any of this BS. This whole thing has been put way behind Dragon*Con for over 10 years. The man only gets paid due to LEGAL reasons. No matter what anyone does he still be owed.

Obviously, people love drama. So, keep going, obviously everyone at Dragon*Con is getting molested in the hallways left and right because some dude who has been under house arrest for over 10 years, and can’t even walk and requires heavy machinery just to walk has a mystical power over the energy of the entire convention!

Move along, nothing to see here… obviously.

Win.

And there is the entire issue that he hasn't had a fucking trial yet. He is *accused* of crimes, he has not been *convicted* in a court of law yet. I understand, (BELIEVE ME) the emotions that accusations of certain crimes, especially when the evidence doesn't look good for the defendant creates, but, even when it sucks, even when it causes pain, the presumption of innocence is a fucking important keystone for our legal system, and when we ignore that, we get not trials, but *lynchings*.

He has not yet had a day in court, nor been convicted. I completely agree he is a fucking douchnozzle on every level, but no, popular opinion is not allowed to convict people before the evidence is presented and evaluated. Fuck me, that's Marcotte shit.

It's hardly like he hasn't been given an opportunity to have his day in court.
It's been over 12 YEARS since the original charges were made and his entire strategy is consistant with someone who has one single intention - to delay the case against him for as long as legally possible.
In the meantime he is able to have his freedom and has been caught in a hotelroom with a naked underage boy.
Yes, nothing proven in court. Yet.
The problem here is that continuing to support him financially seems to be closely connected with his avoidance of the court case.
These are serious charges and we probably both agree that he deserves to put forward his case.
The question is whether treating him as 'innocent until proven guilty' is the ethical policy here.
I am not saying we should lynch him, just that giving him money isn't helping to quickly resolve the situation.
There is a saying that 'justice delayed is justice denied' that may well apply here.

I agree, he's been a complete shit from day one, but he's been playing the system like a master. I also agree that the system has been far too considerate in this case.

However, if convicted, and to the non-lawyer, the evidence seems solid, cutting him completely out of DC gets much simpler.

[Git]

I see you never bothered to give any of my previous questions about the cartoon any thought at all. Your attempts to call "blood libel" were idiotic dogshit, as were your claims of outrageous stereotyping.

"Blatantly Anti-Semitic".....yeah, that's complete bullshit, unless maybe you are looking at all times to take exaggerated offence, and hold that Jews are an elevated people who can never be criticized the same way everyone else in the world is. The Arabic-looking "victims" in the cartoon were more caricatured than Netanyahu was, probably just to cut short stupid complaints like yours. But you can't deny a willing victim their oppression, I guess I should know that by now.

The cartoon clearly evoked anti-semitic and judeophobic tropes, and it was published on Holocaust Memorial Day day:

http://blog.thecst.org.uk/?p=4082

Unfortunately for Jews – and for satirists - antisemites and antisemitism also have ‘a thing’ about blood; and especially about the allegation that Jews murder others (children in particular) in order to use their blood or organs for heinous purpose. It is a harsh fact that blood has long played a profoundly disturbing part in the history of antisemitism, and this has obvious consequences for Jews and antisemites today. The actual intentions of Gerald Scarfe and the Sunday Times count for very little within this broader context of history, and its contemporary emotional and racist impacts.
So, the cartoon, regardless of the wishes of Scarfe and the Sunday Times, regardless of it specifically being anti-Netahyahu rather than anti-Jew, will seriously distress many Jews and will give pleasure to many antisemites. (Indeed, CST has already received many calls and emails on this cartoon from upset and angry members of the public.) This is, after all, how antisemitism actually works, for its victims and its proponents. For those practical reasons, this cartoon will (like the Dave Brown / Independent cartoon of Ariel Sharon eating babies) be perceived as part of the canon of contemporary antisemitic imagery, as are the many other cartoons that associate Israeli leaders with blood in hideous ways.
And, with the cartoon having been published on Holocaust Memorial Day, its power to offend and upset the emotions of Jews is greatly worsened.

In short, if you use language which is closely associated with racism, then you cannot complain when people infer that you are a racist. If you make comments which are offensively stereotypical of homosexuals, you cannot take issue when you are branded a homophobe. If you invoke imagery and language consistent with antisemites, WTF do you expect?

[CommanderTuvok]

Speaking of Steven Novella, has anyone heard the rumor that Rebecca is furious about today's article and has decided to fire him from the Skepchicks Guide to the Universe? ;)

LOL. Reminds me of this... viewtopic.php?f=21&t=87&p=878#p878

[Cupid Stunt]

Isreal/Palestine discussions always descend into an undending clusterfuck.

Any chance it can be moved to its own thread?

[Dick Strawkins]

I agree, he's been a complete shit from day one, but he's been playing the system like a master. I also agree that the system has been far too considerate in this case.

However, if convicted, and to the non-lawyer, the evidence seems solid, cutting him completely out of DC gets much simpler.

I'm not sure how a conviction would make the complete split from DragonCon much easier.
They can't do anything at that point that they couldn't do now.
It's not as if the conviction would make him automatically lose the 34%, is it? (I am not sure on this point !)
I mean, what's he likely to get if found guilty? A few years behind bars?
After which he comes out unemployable.
Why would he get rid of a decent earner like the Dragoncon shares?

[CommanderTuvok]

Speaking of Steven Novella, has anyone heard the rumor that Rebecca is furious about today's article and has decided to fire him from the Skepchicks Guide to the Universe? ;)

LOL. Reminds me of this... viewtopic.php?f=21&t=87&p=878#p878

[welch]

I see you never bothered to give any of my previous questions about the cartoon any thought at all. Your attempts to call "blood libel" were idiotic dogshit, as were your claims of outrageous stereotyping.

"Blatantly Anti-Semitic".....yeah, that's complete bullshit, unless maybe you are looking at all times to take exaggerated offence, and hold that Jews are an elevated people who can never be criticized the same way everyone else in the world is. The Arabic-looking "victims" in the cartoon were more caricatured than Netanyahu was, probably just to cut short stupid complaints like yours. But you can't deny a willing victim their oppression, I guess I should know that by now.

The cartoon clearly evoked anti-semitic and judeophobic tropes, and it was published on Holocaust Memorial Day day:

http://blog.thecst.org.uk/?p=4082

Unfortunately for Jews – and for satirists - antisemites and antisemitism also have ‘a thing’ about blood; and especially about the allegation that Jews murder others (children in particular) in order to use their blood or organs for heinous purpose. It is a harsh fact that blood has long played a profoundly disturbing part in the history of antisemitism, and this has obvious consequences for Jews and antisemites today. The actual intentions of Gerald Scarfe and the Sunday Times count for very little within this broader context of history, and its contemporary emotional and racist impacts.
So, the cartoon, regardless of the wishes of Scarfe and the Sunday Times, regardless of it specifically being anti-Netahyahu rather than anti-Jew, will seriously distress many Jews and will give pleasure to many antisemites. (Indeed, CST has already received many calls and emails on this cartoon from upset and angry members of the public.) This is, after all, how antisemitism actually works, for its victims and its proponents. For those practical reasons, this cartoon will (like the Dave Brown / Independent cartoon of Ariel Sharon eating babies) be perceived as part of the canon of contemporary antisemitic imagery, as are the many other cartoons that associate Israeli leaders with blood in hideous ways.
And, with the cartoon having been published on Holocaust Memorial Day, its power to offend and upset the emotions of Jews is greatly worsened.

In short, if you use language which is closely associated with racism, then you cannot complain when people infer that you are a racist. If you make comments which are offensively stereotypical of homosexuals, you cannot take issue when you are branded a homophobe. If you invoke imagery and language consistent with antisemites, WTF do you expect?

If you respond to people who don't agree with you by calling them names like an angry two-year-old, you cannot be surprised when you are branded an immature nit-wit.

[welch]

I agree, he's been a complete shit from day one, but he's been playing the system like a master. I also agree that the system has been far too considerate in this case.

However, if convicted, and to the non-lawyer, the evidence seems solid, cutting him completely out of DC gets much simpler.

I'm not sure how a conviction would make the complete split from DragonCon much easier.
They can't do anything at that point that they couldn't do now.
It's not as if the conviction would make him automatically lose the 34%, is it? (I am not sure on this point !)
I mean, what's he likely to get if found guilty? A few years behind bars?
After which he comes out unemployable.
Why would he get rid of a decent earner like the Dragoncon shares?

As I recall, there are a number of laws that seem to make it easier to cut out convicted felons, especially of the more heinous crimes, from profiting while behind bars. For example, the various son of sam laws that handle folks like Manson who want to write books on their crimes and make money from them.

I'm not a lawyer, so I have fuck-all nothing for real knowledge here, but I'd be surprised if a conviction didn't make cutting him out completely a lot easier.

[Git]

Welsh, I couldn't give a fuck what people like VickyCaramel think, especially when they reveal their true colours, and bring up the same old tried anti-Israel arguments time and time again, or deny reality staring in the face. Yes, I've lost patience with them, and handled them roughly, but so what? You can't reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into. For the likes of VC, their anti-Israel hatred is a religion, and they are true believers.

[Dick Strawkins]

I agree, he's been a complete shit from day one, but he's been playing the system like a master. I also agree that the system has been far too considerate in this case.

However, if convicted, and to the non-lawyer, the evidence seems solid, cutting him completely out of DC gets much simpler.

I'm not sure how a conviction would make the complete split from DragonCon much easier.
They can't do anything at that point that they couldn't do now.
It's not as if the conviction would make him automatically lose the 34%, is it? (I am not sure on this point !)
I mean, what's he likely to get if found guilty? A few years behind bars?
After which he comes out unemployable.
Why would he get rid of a decent earner like the Dragoncon shares?

As I recall, there are a number of laws that seem to make it easier to cut out convicted felons, especially of the more heinous crimes, from profiting while behind bars. For example, the various son of sam laws that handle folks like Manson who want to write books on their crimes and make money from them.

I'm not a lawyer, so I have fuck-all nothing for real knowledge here, but I'd be surprised if a conviction didn't make cutting him out completely a lot easier.

Preventing profiting directly from a crime I can understand (gaining something from a will or insurance policy for example.)
Indirect profiting, such as from a book or movie about the crime I can also understand.
But in this case the crime doesn't seem to be connected in any way with the DragonCon shares.
Do you lose the right to hold shares in a for-profit company if you've been convicted of a felony? (I really don't know!)

[petal]

Try this one:

Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test (Revised, Adult)
http://www.questionwritertracker.com/qu ... K3TKB.html
My results were:

Your Score 20
Total Possible 36
An average score for this test is 26.2, or 21.9 for an adult with Asperger Syndrome or High-Functioning Autism

Wow...I scored 32! Maybe I ought to learn how to play poker

[Git]

And for the record, Geller and the EDL and all that crowd can go fuck themselves. The way to combat Islam in this country isn't to go drunkenly marching up and down streets and do some pit of random paki-bashing, its:

- to close down faith schools
- reduce the influence of all religions upon the political process (including disestablishing the CofE)
- making leaving Islam easier (a nationwide series of refuges for apostates for example)
- ban foreign funding of all religions
- end being much stricter with planning permissions for religious buildings
- ban misogynistic clothing in the public space
- end this absurd deference to religion in the public sphere.

[Michael K Gray]

Why the sudden pang of conscience now from Watson?
Why was it fine for the skepchicks to attend in previous years but this year they suddenly discover a moral quandry.

Because Becca has realised that she is getting too raddled to be the centre of attention by being a dipsomaniac.
She has changed her attention-grabbing schtik 180° from party-slut to puritanical old maid.
That is why the APPEARANCE of a sudden pang of con-science.

[Dick Strawkins]

Try this one:

Reading the Mind in the Eyes Test (Revised, Adult)
http://www.questionwritertracker.com/qu ... K3TKB.html
My results were:

Your Score 20
Total Possible 36
An average score for this test is 26.2, or 21.9 for an adult with Asperger Syndrome or High-Functioning Autism

Wow...I scored 32! Maybe I ought to learn how to play poker

I got 24.
I kept guessing wrongly for the women's eyes.
I tended to guess 'hostile' when in fact they were 'seductive'.

Which, ironically is the exact opposite of my experience when I was single! :doh:

[Tony Parsehole]

Jesus, Git! Who took the jam out of your doughnut?

[Michael K Gray]

Grains have nothing to offer except fiber...

WTF????

[petal]

BTW, I am ordained in this church. I'm empowered to perform marriages in many states!

That rug really tied the room together, did it not?

[Angry_Drunk]

Jesus, Git! Who took the jam out of your doughnut?

The Palestinians, apparently.

[Git]

Jesus, Git! Who took the jam out of your doughnut?

The Palestinians, apparently.

Fucking Blizzard deciding that their Authenicator App needs a GSM connection to work and not on whatever connectivity (i.e. WiFi) is available (like every other fucking app out there). Makes changing your mobile phone and keeping a mobile authenticator a fucking pain.

[Git]

Jesus, Git! Who took the jam out of your doughnut?

The Palestinians, apparently.

To be fair, I lolled at that. :D

[JackSkeptic]

I agree, he's been a complete shit from day one, but he's been playing the system like a master. I also agree that the system has been far too considerate in this case.

However, if convicted, and to the non-lawyer, the evidence seems solid, cutting him completely out of DC gets much simpler.

I'm not sure how a conviction would make the complete split from DragonCon much easier.
They can't do anything at that point that they couldn't do now.
It's not as if the conviction would make him automatically lose the 34%, is it? (I am not sure on this point !)
I mean, what's he likely to get if found guilty? A few years behind bars?
After which he comes out unemployable.
Why would he get rid of a decent earner like the Dragoncon shares?

As I recall, there are a number of laws that seem to make it easier to cut out convicted felons, especially of the more heinous crimes, from profiting while behind bars. For example, the various son of sam laws that handle folks like Manson who want to write books on their crimes and make money from them.

I'm not a lawyer, so I have fuck-all nothing for real knowledge here, but I'd be surprised if a conviction didn't make cutting him out completely a lot easier.

In the UK a company's Memorandum and Articles of Association, which is the constitution of a company, may provide for criminal convictions to force a sale of shares, possibly with pre-emption rights to force a sale of shares to the existing shareholders. However this would normally only apply to smaller corporations and not public ones, if at all. These provision may only apply to directorships and not shareholders. It is probable that US corporations have similar provisions. This is likely the first thing they checked as it takes a few minutes to do so. The issue here is he has not been convicted so their hands are tied even if such a provision existed.

They could try all sorts of things, such as bringing the company into disrepute may be a tort of whatever, but if he has solid contracts it is not something that can be done easily.

I'm no lawyer but I am willing to believe their hands really are tied at the moment.

[Steersman]

[Welch], I couldn't give a fuck what people like VickyCaramel think, especially when they reveal their true colours, and bring up the same old tried anti-Israel arguments time and time again, or deny reality staring in the face. Yes, I've lost patience with them, and handled them roughly, but so what? You can't reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into. For the likes of VC, their anti-Israel hatred is a religion, and they are true believers.

While I’m probably more sympathetic to the pro-Israel argument and think Islam is the religion-from-Hell and part of some pan-Arabic colonialism if not fascism, methinks that there are a few flies in the ointment in the position you – and others – hold as it too suggests one that you and they “haven’t reasoned themselves into”. Seems to me that, as with similar types of arguments, there are some “unexamined” premises and assumptions on both sides that don’t hold all that much water.

And, for one, to assert, apparently, that all criticism of Israel constitutes “anti-Israel hatred [as] a religion” doesn’t seem particularly charitable or creditable.

[Apples]

In the A+ thread in which it is revealed that Justin Vacula and his male-supremacist horde is plotting to shut down the Women in Secularism conference (lol, wut?), we also learn that A+ is attracting a young crowd:

Ugh. I've been thinking of going to WiS for my birthday because it's two weeks after I turn 18, so I'd old enough to travel on my own and, y'know, feminisms and atheisms and all of that fun stuff. (And birthday parties suck)

Fuck, I really want to go, but boarding school+ no actual means of travel cuz that's about my 17th birthday weekend means that would be Really. Fucking. Hard.

Then Ceepolk weighs in:

not going. can't enter the country.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3807

[Michael K Gray]

The only discussion at this point should be how to make the two-state solution work.

That's pretty much what murderous white Afrikaner bigots said about apartheid in South Africa.
(The parallels are close enough to make that comparison quite valid.)

Good solution!
Make the blatantly apartheid "solution" in the Middle East work!
The best state for Jews, and really crappy isolated scraps of desert for non-Jews. Perfect.

(Cue Git in 5, 4, 3, 2, ...)

[KiwiInOz]

I have had the same experiences as Tigzy, all Muslim people I have met were really good, sweet and generous people. One of my former supervisors was Jordania and a muslim. He was one of the best bosses I ever had. One of my friends is a woman from Irak, also a practicing muslim. She's an engineer, she wore makeup, no hija , drove like a Nascar pilot and took shit from no one (including her Iraqui, muslim husband). She used to tell me stories about life in Irak, and it was her mom (not her dad) the conservative person on her household. Her parents were both medical doctors.

Ditto. My best friend at work is Indonesian Muslim. She takes no shit, is liberal, eats pork, drinks, and sort of believes/culturally believes. She always asks WHY when religious rules are promulgated.

I have lots of other Indonesian Muslim friends that I have worked with; and they are awesome people. They also have no problem with my atheism.

[BarnOwl]

Wow...I scored 32! Maybe I ought to learn how to play poker

I was thinking that the eyes with visible pupils would be easier to read, but that turned out to be wrong. The eyebrows and muscles around the eyes were much better clues for me.

I scored 100% on the humanist test ... the last question seems to be a key one. I thought about what I do for a living (cancer research and teaching medical/dental/graduate students), which consumes most of my waking hours, and those choices (I'd like to think) support "improving the welfare of humanity" rather than "protecting the environment." I'm not really actively engaged in "protecting the environment" on a daily basis, or in a significant way, tbh. Hugging trees, feeding wild birds in my backyard, crocheting sea creatures from recycled plastic bags, and tossing pebbles over my back fence at speeding SUVs aren't really significant environmental protection activities.

[Git]

And, for one, to assert, apparently, that all criticism of Israel constitutes “anti-Israel hatred [as] a religion” doesn’t seem particularly charitable or creditable.

I never said that.

Criticising Israel to a similar standard as other countries is fine. Hell, I'll do it myself: the lack of civil marriage in Israel (marriages must fall into one of three religious Abrahamic categories) is utterly ridiculous and completely wrong, for example.

The problem arises whenever, and I've made this bloody clear, when Israel is held up as some sort of unique evil. That is when it becomes a religion.

[KiwiInOz]

Hey there, 'pitters :) My guy is home safe and sound (as of yesterday). We still don't know anything but at least the mass is gone.

Once again, I'm not going to even try to catch up. Anything fun going on?

Awesome, Renee!

As for what is going on. Buggered if I know. I'm still catching up as I was not privileged enough to have telecommunications over the weekend due to flooding.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

And, for one, to assert, apparently, that all criticism of Israel constitutes “anti-Israel hatred [as] a religion” doesn’t seem particularly charitable or creditable.

I never said that.

Criticising Israel to a similar standard as other countries is fine. Hell, I'll do it myself: the lack of civil marriage in Israel (marriages must fall into one of three religious Abrahamic categories) is utterly ridiculous and completely wrong, for example.

The problem arises whenever, and I've made this bloody clear, when Israel is held up as some sort of unique evil. That is when it becomes a religion.

Israel may not be uniquely "evil" - it is however fairly uniquely fucked up.

[Git]

And, for one, to assert, apparently, that all criticism of Israel constitutes “anti-Israel hatred [as] a religion” doesn’t seem particularly charitable or creditable.

I never said that.

Criticising Israel to a similar standard as other countries is fine. Hell, I'll do it myself: the lack of civil marriage in Israel (marriages must fall into one of three religious Abrahamic categories) is utterly ridiculous and completely wrong, for example.

The problem arises whenever, and I've made this bloody clear, when Israel is held up as some sort of unique evil. That is when it becomes a religion.

Israel may not be uniquely "evil" - it is however fairly uniquely fucked up.

As indeed are most countries.

Yet somehow it is always Israel that attracts the majority of opprobrium from a certain category of people.

[bhoytony]

Fuck me, and I thought Steersman was tedious. Please stop encouraging his shite.

[Michael J]

I think Kurds are fucking troublemakers.

Fuck yeah they are. Especially when you're all set to have a nice bowl of cereal and bang! fucking kurds ruin it.

that's whey out of line

[BarnOwl]

I think Kurds are fucking troublemakers.

Fuck yeah they are. Especially when you're all set to have a nice bowl of cereal and bang! fucking kurds ruin it.

that's whey out of line

Milking it for all it's worth, are we?

[Metalogic42]

I think Kurds are fucking troublemakers.

Fuck yeah they are. Especially when you're all set to have a nice bowl of cereal and bang! fucking kurds ruin it.

that's whey out of line

Milking it for all it's worth, are we?

These jokes are really cheesy.

[Dan]

I think Kurds are fucking troublemakers.

Fuck yeah they are. Especially when you're all set to have a nice bowl of cereal and bang! fucking kurds ruin it.

that's whey out of line

Milking it for all it's worth, are we?

It's getting a bit cheesy now

[DeepInsideYourMind]

And, for one, to assert, apparently, that all criticism of Israel constitutes “anti-Israel hatred [as] a religion” doesn’t seem particularly charitable or creditable.

I never said that.

Criticising Israel to a similar standard as other countries is fine. Hell, I'll do it myself: the lack of civil marriage in Israel (marriages must fall into one of three religious Abrahamic categories) is utterly ridiculous and completely wrong, for example.

The problem arises whenever, and I've made this bloody clear, when Israel is held up as some sort of unique evil. That is when it becomes a religion.

Israel may not be uniquely "evil" - it is however fairly uniquely fucked up.

As indeed are most countries.

Yet somehow it is always Israel that attracts the majority of opprobrium from a certain category of people.

And each of them (if they act like Israel) deserves criticism, derision, etc etc etc

Critique of the government policies of Israel is not anti-semitic. Much like critique of government policies of Pakistan isn't anti-islamic.

They are both vile oppressive regimes that support state sponsored terrorism against ethnic groups they disagree with.

Feel free to pipe up on other oppressive or repugnant regimes, but while Israel is under discussion - excuse others for pointing out what a nasty hate fuelled state it is.

p.s. you may also point out how some of the leaders of the Palestinians are the same, but as they haven't even been allowed to form a government, nor to have their own state, it's a little hard to get exactly what the Palestinian "state policy" is ... we do however have a very clear idea of what ISraeli state policy is.

[BarnOwl]

These jokes are really cheesy.

You're just trying to butter me up.

[AbsurdWalls]

Oh for fuck sake, enough with the Israeli Palestine wars.
I'm beginning to wish Rystefn turns up with more stories about his sex life, or guns, just to change the subject.
Yes.
It's that bad.

Either that or we build a security wall around Git.

You might want to ask the original poster, who was in a huff that a Jew (Jerry Coyne) dared to find a blatantly anti-semitic cartoon to be more than a wee bit problematic.

Are we at begging the question now?

[Metalogic42]

These jokes are really cheesy.

You're just trying to butter me up.

No, I'm trying to whip you into shape.

[Apples]

Just when I thought Ceepolk had some cool story about her felonious past and America's ridiculous homeland security policies:

ceepolk wrote: not going. can't enter the country.

flewellyn wrote: Why is that, if I may ask?

No passport.

:rimshot:

[AbsurdWalls]

Welsh, I couldn't give a fuck what people like VickyCaramel think, especially when they reveal their true colours, and bring up the same old tried anti-Israel arguments time and time again, or deny reality staring in the face. Yes, I've lost patience with them, and handled them roughly, but so what? You can't reason someone out of a position they haven't reasoned themselves into. For the likes of VC, their anti-Israel hatred is a religion, and they are true believers.

And for the record, Geller and the EDL and all that crowd can go fuck themselves. The way to combat Islam in this country isn't to go drunkenly marching up and down streets and do some pit of random paki-bashing, its:

- to close down faith schools
- reduce the influence of all religions upon the political process (including disestablishing the CofE)
- making leaving Islam easier (a nationwide series of refuges for apostates for example)
- ban foreign funding of all religions
- end being much stricter with planning permissions for religious buildings
- ban misogynistic clothing in the public space
- end this absurd deference to religion in the public sphere.

I'm confused. Is Git pretending to be Ophelia or Surly Amy?

[Mr Danksworth]

Yet somehow it is always Israel that attracts the majority of opprobrium from a certain category of people.

And who might that 'certain category" be? Please tell us, so that we might avoid contact with them.

[another lurker]

And, for one, to assert, apparently, that all criticism of Israel constitutes “anti-Israel hatred [as] a religion” doesn’t seem particularly charitable or creditable.

I never said that.

Criticising Israel to a similar standard as other countries is fine. Hell, I'll do it myself: the lack of civil marriage in Israel (marriages must fall into one of three religious Abrahamic categories) is utterly ridiculous and completely wrong, for example.

The problem arises whenever, and I've made this bloody clear, when Israel is held up as some sort of unique evil. That is when it becomes a religion.

Israel may not be uniquely "evil" - it is however fairly uniquely fucked up.

As indeed are most countries.

Yet somehow it is always Israel that attracts the majority of opprobrium from a certain category of people.

And each of them (if they act like Israel) deserves criticism, derision, etc etc etc

Critique of the government policies of Israel is not anti-semitic. Much like critique of government policies of Pakistan isn't anti-islamic.

They are both vile oppressive regimes that support state sponsored terrorism against ethnic groups they disagree with.

Feel free to pipe up on other oppressive or repugnant regimes, but while Israel is under discussion - excuse others for pointing out what a nasty hate fuelled state it is.

p.s. you may also point out how some of the leaders of the Palestinians are the same, but as they haven't even been allowed to form a government, nor to have their own state, it's a little hard to get exactly what the Palestinian "state policy" is ... we do however have a very clear idea of what ISraeli state policy is.

Exactly. I would be happy to talk about how fucked up Pakistan is. I would also be happy to talk about how Canada has mistreated it's native peoples. But, since we are not discussing Canada or Pakistan, I will shit-talk Israel, since Israel is, after all, *the* topic of discussion.

[another lurker]

Yet somehow it is always Israel that attracts the majority of opprobrium from a certain category of people.

And who might that 'certain category" be? Please tell us, so that we might avoid contact with them.

I am guessing that Vicky and Trophy are both privileged gentiles, and should just STFU! They are standing on Israel's foot, or something :P

[KiwiInOz]

I think Kurds are fucking troublemakers.

A most beautiful Shite Kurdish woman has recently joined my boxing gym. She is a natural mover (in boxing terms), wears lycra, and is an anaesthetist. Have I mentioned that she is beautiful? Definitely trouble.

[KiwiInOz]

And its those blatant double standards that fucking piss me off big time.

My position on Israel is along the lines of yours Git; and I'm more than happy to criticise their government policies.

[Tigzy]

A most beautiful Shite Kurdish woman has recently joined my boxing gym....

Oh. Dear.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

You might want to ask the original poster, who was in a huff that a Jew (Jerry Coyne) dared to find a blatantly anti-semitic cartoon to be more than a wee bit problematic.

I think Jerry is an atheist, not a jew.

He is Jewish, not a follower of Judaism.

If I'm born into a family of cleaners and dockers, I can be called working class.
If I grow up, make millions in business and live life according to my means, I am no longer working class.

If I'm born into a family of jews, and attend synagogue, I can be called jewish.
If I grow up, realize what bullshit religion is and live life according to my new beliefs, I am no longer a jew.

[Tony Parsehole]

Oh for fuck sake, enough with the Israeli Palestine wars.
I'm beginning to wish Rystefn turns up with more stories about his sex life, or guns, just to change the subject.
Yes.
It's that bad.

Either that or we build a security wall around Git.

You might want to ask the original poster, who was in a huff that a Jew (Jerry Coyne) dared to find a blatantly anti-semitic cartoon to be more than a wee bit problematic.

Are we at begging the question now?

Which definition of "begging the question" are you using?
Smiley needed: :lol:

[sKepptiksowat]

By request:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/2010/final00003141.jpg

[KiwiInOz]

A most beautiful Shite Kurdish woman has recently joined my boxing gym....

Oh. Dear.

Bugger. Bugger. Bugger.

Shiite. Shiite. Shiite.

[Tony Parsehole]

I think Kurds are fucking troublemakers.

A most beautiful Shite Kurdish woman has recently joined my boxing gym. She is a natural mover (in boxing terms), wears lycra, and is an anaesthetist. Have I mentioned that she is beautiful? Definitely trouble.

Bolding mine. Is this racist or sexist?

[Submariner]

30/36. I suppose I need to check my eyeball privilege.

29/36. Neurotypical privilege!11!!1!!

Did you notice any pattern to the ones you missed? Apparently I'm not so good at recognizing "hostile" and "defiant."

Yeah, affectionate or fantasizing. I didn't get one of those right. Makes you wonder how I was able to reproduce. :shock:

[Lurkion]

Anyone else get the slight impression that Louis might be a bit butthurt.

http://www.freezepage.com/1359484495ELMJTZUUAY

I think welch made him cry

It is apparent that Louis is upset about something and has some issues to get off hischest.
I wonder why he didn't argue his case better the last time he visited?
Oh, well. Yelling "TF00t is a misogynist lolololol" and running off without backing the claim up with evidence is good enough for a Pharyngulite I suppose.

Fuck it. I gotta do this.

Stephanie Zvan is a fucking racist.

Seeing as I don't need to prove this claim, you must disprove it, beyond doubt to my satisfaction.

[Tony Parsehole]

Just when I thought Ceepolk had some cool story about her felonious past and America's ridiculous homeland security policies:

ceepolk wrote: not going. can't enter the country.

flewellyn wrote: Why is that, if I may ask?

No passport.

:rimshot:

Hardcore.
I was expecting some SJW terrorist excuse. Instead we get some shite about the lack of passport-privilege.