The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

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Michael K Gray
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4261

Post by Michael K Gray »

fascination wrote:LMAO, I missed you MKG!
I had no idea you were trying to hit me!

That reminds me of that delightful Indian: Spike Milligan.

He fought in WW2 in the North African desert against Rommel' tank corps.
In the 1970s, the surviving Germans and Poms had a dinner together.
As they were conversing, Spike & a German discovered that they were both in the same battle, shooting at each other.
To prove that Germans DO have a sense of humour, the ex-Nazi signed Spike's menu:

"Sorry I missed you in 1944!"

(It was one of Spike's most valued possessions.)

Dick Strawkins
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4262

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Notung wrote:
Yep, I've said it before but it bears repeating: I disagree with the idea that what EG did is always wrong (based on subjective interpersonal signals, etc), and I agree with Dawkins that this is a zero-bad incident, and the fact that the internet is discussing it like it's the more important issue facing women today is laughable when we consider the actual problems women face in the world. But that's fine - she's entitled to her opinion, so let's discuss it like adults. Then she writes The Privilege Delusion, which is a long personal attack on Dawkins, involving boycotting and shunning. I notice that if you criticise this move, you're a misogynist and an anti-feminist, apparently. So the problem is, we can't have a rational dogma-free discussion on at least one issue in 'the atheist community'.

That's what I'm fighting. They're entitled to their religion opinion, but please don't force it on me. Freedom from dogma is a cherished characteristic of the 'movement', so let's defend it with all that we have, in the best way possible. And that involves not sending stupid messages to Rebecca Watson that she can proudly display on her website.
If you were around during the Wally Smith affair you should remember that it's not only atheists that have an interest in inciting divisions amongst atheists. If a similar division opened up in, for example Catholicism, I suspect there would be a lot of atheists doing a little agent provocateur activity online, stirring the pot.
Prior to elevatorgate Watson had accumulated a lot of enemies that were not necessarily atheists. In fact Watsons 'atheism' never seemed that deep. She never really pushed for the SGU to adopt a strong atheistic approach, instead seemed to be content to stick with the safe skeptical topics of UFOs, ghosts etc. She did get into a lot of fights with anti-vaccination, homeopathy and other alt-med kooks.
And once she started talking about feminism she was bound to attract anti-feminist trolls.
Now some of these are bound to be atheists (just going by population statistics) but it is also likely that a lot were not atheists. They were just anti-feminists.

Did DPR Jones contradict Watson?
Well he certainly contradicted part of her previous stories (she wasn't, in fact, drinking for eight or ten hours in the bar before the incident - she was in someones hotel room about an hour previously, doing a live blog stream)
It is also interesting to note that Slymepitter AronRA has some information on this that he has kept quiet about so far.

The actual elevator incident, however, could still have happened (she returned to the bar and decided to call it a night at 4 AM.
As far as I know only one person has vouched for her side of the story, that idiot pharyngulite Rorscharch, who was there in the bar, although he might have gone to bed just before 4.
Considering the self delusional behavior of the typical Watson sycophant I still wonder if it could have been one of them who made the move (if a move actually happened at all - I'm beginning to sound like a Mythicist! - can we solve this one using Carriers Bayesian approach?)
It wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if Elevatorguy was revealed to be a Watson fan who has spent the past 18 months lambasting the rest of us for being misogynists!

Michael K Gray
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4263

Post by Michael K Gray »

Sorry Renee, I have been gifting mutiple donations under a false understanding to "Operation Smile"!
All this time I was under the impression that it was "Operation Slime".
Bugger.

(Now there's an idea...)


Philip of Tealand
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4265

Post by Philip of Tealand »

Must add my sympathies to Renee and her chap, I hope the news improves, if not I second the jelly option suggested earlier, normally I'd suggest Tea but I think that might be a bit much in this situation!

As for RW and her antics - I'm completely with DPR Jones, there she is openly hurtling around the world, talking bollocks and all along laughing away at her "rape" and "death" threats from her page of "hate" whilst similarly encouraging the myth that she and fellow Chicks are in mortal danger of being raped by every single man who walks around every single corner of an Atheist Conference.

It is professional victim work and I have no time for it.

aqi
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4266

Post by aqi »

DownThunder wrote:
Notung wrote:
decius wrote:Not directly, but his version of events pokes a gigantic hole in the narrative.
Well surely it outright contradicts it (since she was recording instead of being in the bar, and it was DPR Jones in the elevator, and no offer of coffee). But what's confusing is that he says that he knows who the alleged 'elevator man' is, and seems to believe the elevator story. So presumably he doesn't think there's a contradiction. So what am I missing?
Without knowing the duration of the blog talk session...she probably went back to more drinking at the bar.

I can't find the show at http://www.blogtalkradio.com/thethinkingatheist

at http://www.leagueofreason.co.uk/viewtop ... 0&start=20
I came across a video where AronRa was attempting to jump out of a window on to a bunch of scantily clad teenage girls (apparently). DPRJones was asking Rebecca Watson about blowjobs. Fortunately, RW told him he was a pathetic wanker (or words to that effect). Even drunk she's ace.
http://middleagedboy.wordpress.com/2011 ... nd-part-1/

aqi
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4267

Post by aqi »

According to this guy, DPRJones interviewed Watson the night before Elevatorgate happened.

Day of
http://middleagedboy.wordpress.com/2011 ... nd-part-3/

Day after
http://middleagedboy.wordpress.com/2012 ... your-blog/

Tony Parsehole
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4268

Post by Tony Parsehole »

From that link I found this blogpost titled "The Right Kind Of White" http://haifischgeweint.wordpress.com/20 ... -of-white/
As you would expect from the Talking Winnit it's filled with ultra SJW shite like:
The primary definition of whiteness is achieved by Othering everything that is associated with the cultures and traditions of people of colour (i.e., called racializing).
Thus, white people are born into a privileged position by default, and are programmed to be blind to the collective pain and frustration of people of colour (who are born by default into an oppressed position).
I now grieve for this loss every day, recognizing that the “right kind” of white is constructed from stripping power away from people of the “wrong kinds”

Then he has the cheek to moan that his family want nothing to do with him anymore....

aqi
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4269

Post by aqi »

Sympathies to Renee, too.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4270

Post by AbsurdWalls »

LMU wrote:I suspect that those who are interested already know this, but just in case: The A+ "not safe space" forum has had a change in management and moved to here: http://www.secularsocialjustice.com/
It is amazing they've not twigged that no, we are not monsters and yes, this is the place for them to go to if they don't like the atmosphere on the A+ safe space.
decius wrote:
DownThunder wrote:
decius wrote:I would also point out that the EG's footprint is shrinking increasingly, as well for his window of opportunity to remain open.

Aron Ra's extremely odd comment, to the tune that it wouldn't matter if EG didn't exist at all, makes a lot more sense now. He could have already realised that it was a fabrication.
I am only aware of Matt Dillahunty's comment to that effect. Did Aaron Ra say that too?
Sorry, I was confusing the two. I retract that comment.
Don't worry, I'm sure AronRa will be along soon to redundantly state that he never said that.

Mykeru
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4271

Post by Mykeru »

Tony Parsehole wrote:I wonder if DPR Jones initially thought Rebecca Watson was referring to him when she talked about the elevator guy?
Or how about this:

Rebecca Watson is a serial confabulator who uses just enough kernel of truth to construct her stories, in the same sense that Spider-Man comics are set in the city of New York, which actually exists.

In her HFA speech she claimed that the person running ElevatorGate lived locally in Florida, was stalking her, and was prevented from attending by the organizers. Almost none of that is true. The only true part is that there is a guy who does an ElevatorGate blog.

Perhaps Watson, after giving her lecture on harassment, turning a talk on "Communicating Atheism" into a litany of her woes as a super-attractive, desireable and high-value woman in Skepticism, much to the irritation of Richard Dawkins, and then pontificating into the wee hours of the morning at the bar, turned DPR's invitation at 2:30-3:00 am to do a video blog into the small condensation nuclei of her "Elevator Guy" story.

Simple, fits the timeline, doesn't require her to go back to the bar.

Just to be clear, because people still insist on treating these fucking con artists as though they are just mistaken, or that there has to be some point-to-point corresponding reality to their bullshit stories, I'm not saying she misinterpreted, got it wrong, or that DPR did anything.

I'm saying that, as a pathological liar, she used her drunk participation in something completely innocuous to construct a fictional narrative that fits what she had been talking about for days, and which she needed for that narrative and, not surprisingly, her own over-inflated ego.

Unless Elevator Guy steps forward, or someone says "I know who it was" and he can be fit into an increasingly bizarre timeline, then I have even less reason to think what Watson recounted actually happened.

jjbinx007
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4272

Post by jjbinx007 »

Symepitters:

I've made a poll here. Please could you take 30 seconds and read and respond to it. Thanks!

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=234

Dick Strawkins
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4273

Post by Dick Strawkins »

aqi wrote:According to this guy, DPRJones interviewed Watson the night before Elevatorgate happened.

Day of
http://middleagedboy.wordpress.com/2011 ... nd-part-3/

Day after
http://middleagedboy.wordpress.com/2012 ... your-blog/
After getting home, I briefly watched Rebecca Watson, DPR Jones and AronRa live drunk vlogging but decided that enough was enough and I should get some sleep. Saturday was going to be a long day…
According to that DPR Jones is a day out.
The elevator incident should have happened on Saturday night/Sunday morning.

Michael K Gray
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Off Topic U-tube Rant

#4274

Post by Michael K Gray »

<grumpy old man rant>
Arrggh!!!
khaaaan001.jpg
Arrggh!!!
(25.84 KiB) Downloaded 135 times
I fucking hate interminable Youtube talking-bobble-head vidz that would lose ZERO¹ effect by being redacted MP3 audio files!!!
"Skimming" (hah!) past the morass of putrid festering dross in order to find the nuggets of less-festering dross is more laborious than emulating Sisyphus in a 21 dimensional Universe.

Or, here is a clue, by being written as a single page text document, for FUX-SAKE.
JUST POST YOUR FUCKIN' SCRIPT.

Don't have one? Making it up on the spot? Go to a fornicating pub to do that impromptu spewing, not U-Bend.
If you don't have a script, then how the hell are you supposed to present coherent concepts?
Haven't written your thoughts down in advance? Whinging it unedited?

THEN YOU CAN FUCK OFF.
And the Camel that you came in.

</grumpy old man rant>

(Watch out franc. I'll soon claim your title.)
_________________________
¹ Except if either party was functionally illiterate, or profoundly hearing impaired. Which, after all is the inviolable remit of those tireless worriers for just-ice: A+Theism video+ Scribes+.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4275

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Mykeru wrote: Perhaps Watson, after giving her lecture on harassment, turning a talk on "Communicating Atheism" into a litany of her woes as a super-attractive, desireable and high-value woman in Skepticism, much to the irritation of Richard Dawkins, and then pontificating into the wee hours of the morning at the bar, turned DPR's invitation at 2:30-3:00 am to do a video blog into the small condensation nuclei of her "Elevator Guy" story.
Yep. That's pretty much what I was thinking.
If I was DPR Jones and on the night in question I invited a drunken Rebecca back to my room for whatever reason, via elevator, at 2.30am-3.00am I would think it was me she was referring to when she mentioned the elevator incident (at least initially).

Michael K Gray
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4276

Post by Michael K Gray »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
Thus, white people are born into a privileged position by default, and are programmed to be blind to the collective pain and frustration of people of colour (who are born by default into an oppressed position).
Who is going to tell his Oriental Overlords?
Tony Parsehole wrote:Then he has the cheek to moan that his family want nothing to do with him anymore....
It is a family tradition amongst those tribes from the Planet Swivel-eyes.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4277

Post by mikelf »

[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
Nice touch with the PBR.

jjbinx007
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4278

Post by jjbinx007 »

Are we allowed to refer to Skepchicks as chicks, by the way?

If so, would it also be allowable to refer to the Godless Bitches women as bitches?

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4279

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Mykeru wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:I wonder if DPR Jones initially thought Rebecca Watson was referring to him when she talked about the elevator guy?
[spoiler]Or how about this:

Rebecca Watson is a serial confabulator who uses just enough kernel of truth to construct her stories, in the same sense that Spider-Man comics are set in the city of New York, which actually exists.

In her HFA speech she claimed that the person running ElevatorGate lived locally in Florida, was stalking her, and was prevented from attending by the organizers. Almost none of that is true. The only true part is that there is a guy who does an ElevatorGate blog.

Perhaps Watson, after giving her lecture on harassment, turning a talk on "Communicating Atheism" into a litany of her woes as a super-attractive, desireable and high-value woman in Skepticism, much to the irritation of Richard Dawkins, and then pontificating into the wee hours of the morning at the bar, turned DPR's invitation at 2:30-3:00 am to do a video blog into the small condensation nuclei of her "Elevator Guy" story.

Simple, fits the timeline, doesn't require her to go back to the bar.

Just to be clear, because people still insist on treating these fucking con artists as though they are just mistaken, or that there has to be some point-to-point corresponding reality to their bullshit stories, I'm not saying she misinterpreted, got it wrong, or that DPR did anything.

I'm saying that, as a pathological liar, she used her drunk participation in something completely innocuous to construct a fictional narrative that fits what she had been talking about for days, and which she needed for that narrative and, not surprisingly, her own over-inflated ego.

Unless Elevator Guy steps forward, or someone says "I know who it was" and he can be fit into an increasingly bizarre timeline, then I have even less reason to think what Watson recounted actually happened.[/spoiler]
The only person who we know exists, and who might know what happened that night is Becilli, and it's unlikely she "remembers" the real events at all, conveniently enough. If EG exists anywhere other than the fever swamp of her imagination, he'll never be found - unless it's face down in a ditch with a broken pair of hipster glasses in his clutching hand.

In this whole mess, all RW had to do was say "For example, if I was going to my room in an elevator at 4am etc etc..." instead of trying to make it sound like it really happened as she said. It would have made the same point, but it wouldn't have demonstrated her utter disregard for the value of facts and, hence her anti-skepticism and anti-science stance. I don't care if this doesn't quite cross Hoofnagle's patented "denialism" (tm) criteria (which I normally have time for), if those rule out this kind of attitude, those criteria are missing way too much.

Michael K Gray
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4280

Post by Michael K Gray »

mikelf wrote:
Nice touch with the PBR.
Here in the fiery land of Oz, PBR means brakes.
"If" PZ applies the brakes to his roller-coaster descent into the 7th pit of Hell, I doubt that even PBR brake pads can help him.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4281

Post by cunt »

Dick Strawkins wrote: According to that DPR Jones is a day out.
The elevator incident should have happened on Saturday night/Sunday morning.
That might be why Dawkins shifts in his seat so much. Can't be easy talking on a panel when the person sitting next to you still stinks of booze.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4282

Post by Mykeru »

cunt wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote: According to that DPR Jones is a day out.
The elevator incident should have happened on Saturday night/Sunday morning.
That might be why Dawkins shifts in his seat so much. Can't be easy talking on a panel when the person sitting next to you still stinks of booze.
That and the pervasive smell of ass.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4283

Post by Bhurzum »

Mykeru wrote:That and the pervasive smell of ass.
I think that Watson probably stinks of patchouli, lavender and burnt rubber.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4284

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Za-zen wrote:Whether EG actually exists is hugely relevant for a number of reasons, not least in understanding Watsons agenda. But damn do we really want to rehash those well beat arguments? Of course we do!

If The Elevator incident is a fiction created from the addled brain of a booze child, then it points quite clearly that the author of the fiction is a dangerous liar, who cares not for the consequence of her fantasy, as long as it serves her.

If Ra and others know that this is a fantasy, at least in part, but decided to not reveal it to be so, for reasons of the "bigger picture" or whatever justification they have used for perpetuating a mythology. I say shame on you, you are as self serving and corrupt as those who share the stage with faith healers, knowing full well that they are frauds, but compartmentalising it, because hey! They save souls!
Loath as I am to diss a fellow Slymepitter, I have lost a bit of respect for Ra if he has withheld his input in Elevatorgate for those reasons. Perhaps he thought that "the elevator incident happened well after I left - I have nothing to contribute there". I'm sure he'll be happy with that.

That his input, you know, facts and stuff, would have contradicted RW's account(s) in some respects is obviously not important.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4285

Post by Mykeru »

Bhurzum wrote:
Mykeru wrote:That and the pervasive smell of ass.
I think that Watson probably stinks of patchouli, lavender and burnt rubber.
And a stale ham sandwich stashed for emergency in her gunt.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4286

Post by Michael K Gray »

AnonymousCowherd wrote:If EG exists anywhere other than the fever swamp of her imagination, he'll never be found - unless it's face down in a ditch with a broken pair of hipster glasses in his clutching hand.
Every bit of evidence only confirms my (exceeding generous) speculation that EG is little more than a confabulated hallucination, as a result of the flickering inebriated onset of premature Korsakoff Syndrome.
Perhaps, as Mykeru cogently postulates, triggered by a very recent elevator ride.
It all fits to a "T".

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4287

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

jjbinx007 wrote:Are we allowed to refer to Skepchicks as chicks, by the way?

If so, would it also be allowable to refer to the Godless Bitches women as bitches?
Only with doofus "irony" "man" hee hee hee.

Kick-ass mofo-ing Gob-bitches is an acceptable answer.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4288

Post by Bhurzum »

Mykeru wrote: And a stale ham sandwich stashed for emergency in her gunt.
"Gunt"

Now there's a word!

Not heard that in a long time!

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4289

Post by Michael K Gray »

And that's another thing Renée!
Why does your charity "HELP A CHILD TO SLIME AGAIN" only offer USA states as options?
I keep having to select as "STATE": [none], rather than "PANIC!".
That may well be my last donation for the week (weak?) as a result.
Hrrrmph!

Yours in indignation,
Col Michael Gray-Smythe-Smith-Stoat-Gobbler, OBE (Retd) (Mrs)

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4290

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Michael K Gray wrote:
AnonymousCowherd wrote:If EG exists anywhere other than the fever swamp of her imagination, he'll never be found - unless it's face down in a ditch with a broken pair of hipster glasses in his clutching hand.
Every bit of evidence only confirms my (exceeding generous) speculation that EG is little more than a confabulated hallucination, as a result of the flickering inebriated onset of premature Korsakoff Syndrome.
Perhaps, as Mykeru cogently postulates, triggered by a very recent elevator ride.
It all fits to a "T".
Let's just say, if "someone" is found in a ditch, he'll be clutching a full confession, including every detail of the elevator incident, that miraculously follows Blechi's account. Even if he was never in Dublin in his life.

No, I don't believe the EG story either. I think "something" happened that created the spark for the tale, and the recent disclosures are just that sort of thing - even if the events were a day earlier. Frankly, if EG did exist, he could have dined out on this story for months - why not come forward? If "he" even noticed the alleged incident. After all, he was very self confident, according to the Becillus.

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4291

Post by aweraw »

mikelf wrote:[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
Nice touch with the PBR.
Here's a blank: [spoiler]http://i.imgur.com/R4m0y.png[/spoiler]

Michael K Gray
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4292

Post by Michael K Gray »

Baby Cats (Cheetahs), South Australia, robust outdoor females wearing thouroughly RACIST HATS whilst doing a paid job in this steenkin' heat, plus sharks. What's not to like?
30 second clip from just up the road from here:
[youtube]-EgG-yVXDDc[/youtube]

mikelf
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4293

Post by mikelf »

Michael K Gray wrote:
mikelf wrote:
Nice touch with the PBR.
Here in the fiery land of Oz, PBR means brakes.
"If" PZ applies the brakes to his roller-coaster descent into the 7th pit of Hell, I doubt that even PBR brake pads can help him.
Here in the states, PBR is a mass produced beer who's main target demographic is white trash and hipsters (who only drink it ironically.)

PBR is also refers to the Professional Bull Riders circuit, but that is another matter altogether.
[spoiler][youtube]9WnYZxhOV1w[/youtube][/spoiler]

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4294

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

aweraw wrote:
mikelf wrote:[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
Nice touch with the PBR.
Here's a blank: [spoiler]http://i.imgur.com/R4m0y.png[/spoiler]
If I keep up this jaunty but withering stare, maybe someone will open the feckin' beer for me.

Crap. At least it's not that product-of-Tbows-poopchute Labatts.

Beccy would have the lid off that in no time. But I have to wait for that toothless fuck Laden...


Michael K Gray
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PZ and the Lesser Deity

#4296

Post by Michael K Gray »

A blast from the past with Mr Deity & PZ!
(It is a satire, so PZ is labelled as a "Science Advisor")
[youtube]2Clm6nlWxzc[/youtube]

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4297

Post by UnbelieveSteve »

Fucken elevatorGATE revisited. I thank DPR Jones for his latest input.
http://unbelievesteve.wordpress.com/201 ... one-night/

AbsurdWalls
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4298

Post by AbsurdWalls »

UnbelieveSteve wrote:Fucken elevatorGATE revisited. I thank DPR Jones for his latest input.
http://unbelievesteve.wordpress.com/201 ... one-night/
Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.

Jan Steen
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4299

Post by Jan Steen »

EG was probably just an itinerant preacher with apocalyptic visions who annoyed the Romans enough to get himself executed.

No, wait, wrong myth.

.............

Renee, I hope for the best for you and your guy.

Notung
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4300

Post by Notung »

AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?

;)

welch
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4301

Post by welch »

Mark Neil wrote:
welch wrote:..whawhawha
Or is this how you're going to make me flounce?
Bravo. You proved me wrong. I predicted you'd play victim and flounce, and instead you misrepresent what I said. You should feel so proud /sarcasm

You see, a prediction of what I think you'll do next is in no way an indicator of what I intend to "MAKE" you do. But I do notice how it's setting you up to play victim, with me making you do things.

This temper tantrum of yours is getting old. Perhaps you should go sit in the corner and have a time out till your ready to talk like a grown up. Until then, I think Welp is a far more fitting moniker for you.
Oh look it's back. Is this the part where you start playing grownup and be "more mature"? I believe so, but it's been a while since I read this script. Still butthurt because I refused to take your moronically phrased questions seriously I see, but you can't stop coming back can you. Gotta get another hit off the pipe.

Your inference was clear, Mork. Via your scintillating wit and incisive questioning, you were going to reduce me to a teaey-eyed flounce. You must spend a LOT of time with the FTB lot if you actually think that works. Really sonny, you're out of your league this time. I've been managing twats like you since the FedEx guy was proving he had a bigger dick than your dad to your mom.

And, because you seem a little simple, if you want to restate your "questions" in the form of a grownup, I'll take them, and you, more seriously. You get the respect you earn Mork,welcome to reality.

Michael K Gray
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4302

Post by Michael K Gray »

Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?
;)
You might wish to "gently" remind the grammaticality ignorant fool/philosopher that xe should have phrased the request:
AbsurdWalls will have 100x wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" incorrectly.
In letters 100' high on the garrison walls.

AnonymousCowherd
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Posts: 1708
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4303

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

AbsurdWalls wrote:
UnbelieveSteve wrote:Fucken elevatorGATE revisited. I thank DPR Jones for his latest input.
http://unbelievesteve.wordpress.com/201 ... one-night/
Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
YES. Using "begs" when they mean "invites" the question is really annoying. To beg the question is to fail to answer it, as "begging off". But I think we fight a losing battle.

As with people who say "refute" when they mean "dispute" - a refution being a reasoned rebuttal, not just an "I disagree, poopyhead".

\old fart

AbsurdWalls
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4304

Post by AbsurdWalls »

Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?

;)
No. People frequently accuse me of being a philosopher on the internet, but reading about it is just a hobby for me. I quite enjoy it, but it rarely impacts the actual work I do. The last time it came up was when I was explaining to a student the difference between ontological and epistemic subjectivity when applied to investigating claims of synaesthesia.

Dilurk
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4305

Post by Dilurk »

AbsurdWalls wrote:
Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?

;)
No. People frequently accuse me of being a philosopher on the internet, but reading about it is just a hobby for me. I quite enjoy it, but it rarely impacts the actual work I do. The last time it came up was when I was explaining to a student the difference between ontological and epistemic subjectivity when applied to investigating claims of synaesthesia.
http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-724.png

From http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=693

Another interesting read is here http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2290

welch
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4306

Post by welch »

Reap wrote:Here's my reply to Ophelia and her "Heroic Standard" blog. I really wonder how much it must suck to just sit around and cry while you wish things better
Christ Ophelia what do you expect from the world? Life isn't fair, bad things happen, people are unfair sometimes too. By saying "People shouldn’t have to overcome barriers that shouldn’t be there in the first place." You may as well say "People shouldn't die" and then go into a pointless spiral of why people should get to live forever and how bad dying is. Nature created barriers not people. They are a part of evolving. I'm glad there are barriers for us to overcome. Since life doesn't allow us to choose what barriers it deals to us sometimes those barriers are unfair to say the least. The alternative is sailing through life with no challenge, nothing to aspire to, no accomplishments, and no progression. It would be some people's idea of heaven but not mine. You can't start the game at the end of it and expect to get anything from it.
Harriet Hall lives in the reality I am describing. She accepts that life is going to keep doing what it always has. It's the way she deals with it that makes me respect her. Instead of crying and complaining she acts on what she can change and does the best she can with what she can not change. Best thing is...She accepts science. Take a look at the latest atheist census numbers. Look at the numbers of men who identify as atheist vs the numbers for women. Then try to convince people the numbers at atheist conventions should be 50-50 men/women. What are you going to do about that problem? Are you going to force women to start calling themselves atheists and force them to attend conferences? I simply can't believe some of the crap I hear coming from the FTB 'skeptics/atheists' I don't know if you think by repeating rhetoric enough times it will become accurate data or if you are just convinced you are correct and above error. Whatever it is I'm just glad it seems to be limiting itself to this one box of FTB. I wonder if you will ever manage to climb out.

Ophelia wants the world planed smooth for her. She wants no challenge harder than making coffee, she wishes all accomplishments to be handed to her simply because she showed up. To her I say:

http://zenpencils.com/comic/86-randy-pa ... ick-walls/

How bad do you want it? That's what you get.

When my son was much younger, third grade or so, we would play "Pokemon Stadium" together. The first few times we played, I won, and he started talking about how that was unfair, because I was older. I told him:

"Kiddo, I'm not going to ever "let you win". I think that's a kind of lying, and I try not to lie to you. But I will tell you this. If you practice, you'll get better, and one day, you'll beat me. When you do, you'll know that I didn't let you win, but that you earned honest victory from an opponent who was sincerely trying to wipe the floor with you. I guarantee, you'll like how that feels."

A month or so later, he won. Wasn't pretty, the little bastard had turned into some kind of video game Patton on me. The victory dance lasted about twenty minutes, and I let him have every minute of it because he'd earned it, fairly and honestly.

If the only victories and achievements we get are the ones handed to us, then we don't have shit. Sure, we all wish things were easier or better. But to actively try to make things go all "Harrison Bergeron"?

That's kinda fucked up.

AbsurdWalls
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4307

Post by AbsurdWalls »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?
;)
You might wish to "gently" remind the grammaticality ignorant fool/philosopher that xe should have phrased the request:
AbsurdWalls will have 100x wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" incorrectly.
In letters 100' high on the garrison walls.
The "new" usage is often claimed to be technically correct by those who use it, I'm sure I've seen stats that say it is used more often the "new" way now rather than the "old" way. My claim is that it is wrong to ruin such a wonderful phrase by giving it a less interesting meaning.

welch
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4308

Post by welch »

rocko2466 wrote:I might make a second account on FTB so I can post on Pharyngula again.

I might not.

But the fact that I've said I might will be good enough to continue to prod PZ Myers into his "slimepit" witch hunt.
The are rather effortless to fuck with.

AbsurdWalls
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Posts: 863
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4309

Post by AbsurdWalls »

Dilurk wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:
Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?

;)
No. People frequently accuse me of being a philosopher on the internet, but reading about it is just a hobby for me. I quite enjoy it, but it rarely impacts the actual work I do. The last time it came up was when I was explaining to a student the difference between ontological and epistemic subjectivity when applied to investigating claims of synaesthesia.
http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-724.png

From http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=693

Another interesting read is here http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2290
Ah, I guess I feel the same as T-Rex does about this issue.

Notung
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4310

Post by Notung »

AnonymousCowherd wrote:YES. Using "begs" when they mean "invites" the question is really annoying. To beg the question is to fail to answer it, as "begging off". But I think we fight a losing battle.
Is it? I've always understood it to be: one's argument requires ('begs') a particular answer to the central question ('the question') it is trying to answer.

e.g.

Billy Crane Laig (because I'm modifying WLC's justifications for the premises) claims that:

1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
2) The universe began to exist
3) (1,2) The universe had a cause

1) is true (claims BCL) because everything we can think of that begins to exist, also has a cause.
2) is true (granted)
so 3).

However (says I), if 2) is true then the universe must count as something that begins to exist. So when we say that everything we know that begins to exist has a cause, we must also know this about the universe, otherwise our justification for 1) doesn't work. So we must also know that 3) is true to be able to say that both 1) and 2) are true. So BCL's argument begs the question, i.e. it requires that the universe had a cause.
As with people who say "refute" when they mean "dispute" - a refution being a reasoned rebuttal, not just an "I disagree, poopyhead".
I believe the correct term is 'refudiate'. /sarahpalin

Outwest
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4311

Post by Outwest »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:I still think Elevator Guy is PZ and she's using the fact as blackmail.
Are you saying that PZ is a fictional character?
That would explain an awful lot.

PZ is another sock of Franc Hoggle!
Comparing franc to PZ is like comparing an adult to a toddler.

AnonymousCowherd
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4312

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Michael K Gray wrote:
Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?
;)
You might wish to "gently" remind the grammaticality ignorant fool/philosopher that xe should have phrased the request:
AbsurdWalls will have 100x wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" incorrectly.
In letters 100' high on the garrison walls.
Nup. I'm morally outraged* at the misuse of "begs", so it's "wrong", not just incorrect.



*not really

Outwest
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4313

Post by Outwest »

Notung wrote:
Phil_Giordana_FCD wrote:I wouldn't care if it happened or not. What actually launched the full blown out Egate was neither the incident nor RW's video, it was the Pharynguphants's comments and over-reactions, especially on the "always name names" post by Myers. This is where Richard Dawkins posted his "dear muslima", and this is where the shitstorm began.

It's like all of a sudden, all these 'rational' atheists and skeptics took off their masks and screamed "TADAAAAAA!!! We were raging lunatics all along. Gotcha!"
Yep, I've said it before but it bears repeating: I disagree with the idea that what EG did is always wrong (based on subjective interpersonal signals, etc), and I agree with Dawkins that this is a zero-bad incident, and the fact that the internet is discussing it like it's the more important issue facing women today is laughable when we consider the actual problems women face in the world. But that's fine - she's entitled to her opinion, so let's discuss it like adults. Then she writes The Privilege Delusion, which is a long personal attack on Dawkins, involving boycotting and shunning. I notice that if you criticise this move, you're a misogynist and an anti-feminist, apparently. So the problem is, we can't have a rational dogma-free discussion on at least one issue in 'the atheist community'.

That's what I'm fighting. They're entitled to their religion opinion, but please don't force it on me. Freedom from dogma is a cherished characteristic of the 'movement', so let's defend it with all that we have, in the best way possible. And that involves not sending stupid messages to Rebecca Watson that she can proudly display on her website.

Notung: Yes. x1000.

BarnOwl
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4314

Post by BarnOwl »

Skep tickle wrote: ...It sounds like she wants to be an activist until she actually has to do something. Overcoming barriers and limitations is too fucking hard, it's better to just sit up and cry and yell for others to "remove the shit". People like that is why the term slacktivist was coined.

There should be no barriers, for anyone, but if there are, something has to be done to eliminate them. It's not enough to sit down like a special snowflake and wait for others to remove them.

Or, if, like some of us, you are not made to be an activist (not everyone has the same personality traits that are required for that), don't complain or yell about the people who are getting shit done. Do what you can, and let those who can do more do their thing. ...
The "make it go away" approach to life's problems was also in evidence when I dove into the comments at one of OB’s “gang rape/murder in India” threads. She & her sycophants were bravely stating that there shouldn’t be any rape, that women shouldn’t have to take measures to protect themselves, etc.

After pissing her usual commentors off by poking at the apparent self-centeredness of OB's post (which was purportedly about the horrible crime in India but which she managed to segue to threats she received before that one TAM), I tried to press them to come up with SOMETHING practical & actual that could be done to accomplish this laudable goal of a rape-free society.

One person said [not necessarily in response to me] that what they could all do was to criticize the suggestion another person had made that women should be armed. No one else came up with anything practical, even with (what seemed to me) spoonfeeding them ideas on angles to start from.

The only other suggestion they came up with was this incredibly insightful and practical one:
[spoiler]“Men should not rape.”[/spoiler]
The most do-able of my couple of suggestions was supporting & even working with the group “Men Can Stop Rape”. I thought that might be kind of up their aisle, at least maybe for some of the guys, but - would you believe it? - that none of them seemed to take the suggestion in a positive light. (I found out later that this is one of the groups the Foundation Beyond Belief is supporting. I hope the FBB gets a better reception when they suggest supporting it, than happened when a 'pitter, or at least someone who had just Challenged Ophelia, does so.)[/quote]

You have far more patience with OB and her commentariat than I do - I'm loathe to even try posting any response to Ophelia's latest drivel. I suspect that she's exhausted all avenues for drawing attention to herself, so she falls back on the WAAAAHHHH-Victim-Martyrdom-Butthurt crap. Gee, Ophelia, I suppose you think that you and your "approved" circle of pals shouldn't ever have to engage in any sort of unpleasant tasks or with any unpleasant people, as part of earning a living in this world?

Oh wait, you don't have to, apparently. And no, responding to people who disagree with you on Twitter doesn't count as "earning a living."

AbsurdWalls
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4315

Post by AbsurdWalls »

Notung wrote: Billy Crane Laig (because I'm modifying WLC's justifications for the premises) claims that:

1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
2) The universe began to exist
3) (1,2) The universe had a cause

1) is true (claims BCL) because everything we can think of that begins to exist, also has a cause.
2) is true (granted)
so 3).

However (says I), if 2) is true then the universe must count as something that begins to exist. So when we say that everything we know that begins to exist has a cause, we must also know this about the universe, otherwise our justification for 1) doesn't work. So we must also know that 3) is true to be able to say that both 1) and 2) are true. So BCL's argument begs the question, i.e. it requires that the universe had a cause.
I believe I am correct in saying that every syllogism becomes a begged question once you remove the caveat that the conclusion is only valid if the premises are accepted.

BarnOwl
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Posts: 3311
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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4316

Post by BarnOwl »

Screwed up the quote tags above, sorry.
Skep tickle wrote: The "make it go away" approach to life's problems was also in evidence when I dove into the comments at one of OB’s “gang rape/murder in India” threads. She & her sycophants were bravely stating that there shouldn’t be any rape, that women shouldn’t have to take measures to protect themselves, etc.

After pissing her usual commentors off by poking at the apparent self-centeredness of OB's post (which was purportedly about the horrible crime in India but which she managed to segue to threats she received before that one TAM), I tried to press them to come up with SOMETHING practical & actual that could be done to accomplish this laudable goal of a rape-free society.

One person said [not necessarily in response to me] that what they could all do was to criticize the suggestion another person had made that women should be armed. No one else came up with anything practical, even with (what seemed to me) spoonfeeding them ideas on angles to start from.

The only other suggestion they came up with was this incredibly insightful and practical one:
[spoiler]“Men should not rape.”[/spoiler]
The most do-able of my couple of suggestions was supporting & even working with the group “Men Can Stop Rape”. I thought that might be kind of up their aisle, at least maybe for some of the guys, but - would you believe it? - that none of them seemed to take the suggestion in a positive light. (I found out later that this is one of the groups the Foundation Beyond Belief is supporting. I hope the FBB gets a better reception when they suggest supporting it, than happened when a 'pitter, or at least someone who had just Challenged Ophelia, does so.)
You have far more patience with OB and her commentariat than I do - I'm loathe to even try posting any response to Ophelia's latest drivel. I suspect that she's exhausted all avenues for drawing attention to herself, so she falls back on the WAAAAHHHH-Victim-Martyrdom-Butthurt crap. Gee, Ophelia, I suppose you think that you and your "approved" circle of pals shouldn't ever have to engage in any sort of unpleasant tasks or with any unpleasant people, as part of earning a living in this world?

Oh wait, you don't have to, apparently. And no, responding to people who disagree with you on Twitter doesn't count as "earning a living."

Notung
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Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:49 am

Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4317

Post by Notung »

FWIW I think the T-Rex is wrong. Sorry, Mr Rex. His 'argument' is either logically invalid (i.e. a non-sequitur - it doesn't follow that whatever's a pretty sweet dude is friggin' awesome) or analytic (necessarily, all things that are a pretty sweet dude are friggin' awesome). It's more of a statement than an argument. Only arguments can beg the question. However, an argument with a false or unjustified premise doesn't 'beg the question' (necessarily) - it is 'unsound'.

Perhaps it's enthymematic. So, re-written as a formally valid syllogism that would give us:

1) Anything that is friggin' awesome is a pretty sweet dude.
2) T-Rex is friggin' awesome.
3) Therefore, T-Rex is a pretty sweet dude.

That's a valid argument, since the conclusion follows from the premises (or, more reductively, it's impossible that both premises are true and the conclusion false).

Its soundness depends on whether we can support the premises. It doesn't beg the question, however, unless the justification given ends up doing so.

AnonymousCowherd
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Location: The Penumbra of Doubt

Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4318

Post by AnonymousCowherd »

Dilurk wrote:[spoiler]
AbsurdWalls wrote:
Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?

;)
No. People frequently accuse me of being a philosopher on the internet, but reading about it is just a hobby for me. I quite enjoy it, but it rarely impacts the actual work I do. The last time it came up was when I was explaining to a student the difference between ontological and epistemic subjectivity when applied to investigating claims of synaesthesia.
http://www.qwantz.com/comics/comic2-724.png

From http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=693

Another interesting read is here http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2290[/spoiler]
Later, trex shows why physics will be abandoned because more people think "quantum" refers to health giving products (tm) that may also involve magnets, or bad Bond movies. Physicist are working on a replacement term that will be "completely unpronounceable" said a spokeman, Dr. Mxyzptlk "let's see if the bastards can steal that!".

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Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4319

Post by Phil_Giordana_FCD »

AnonymousCowherd wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:
UnbelieveSteve wrote:Fucken elevatorGATE revisited. I thank DPR Jones for his latest input.
http://unbelievesteve.wordpress.com/201 ... one-night/
Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
YES. Using "begs" when they mean "invites" the question is really annoying. To beg the question is to fail to answer it, as "begging off". But I think we fight a losing battle.

As with people who say "refute" when they mean "dispute" - a refution being a reasoned rebuttal, not just an "I disagree, poopyhead".

\old fart
A "refution"?!?

UnbelieveSteve
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Location: Sydney Australia

Re: The Periodic Table's Younger, Sexier, Sibling Thread...

#4320

Post by UnbelieveSteve »

Notung wrote:
AbsurdWalls wrote:Please don't use "begs the question" wrongly.
Haha you remind me of me. Which begs the question: did you also study philosophy?

;)
I beg your forgiveness.

Locked