Periodic Table of Swearing

[Eucliwood]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

Assuming it's correct, LOL @ PZ Myers!!!! a walking embarrassment it is. (From now on, they're all its to me. I'm just so angry, and calling lowly people "it" calms me down and helps me think of them as newborns or subhumans)

However, I really hope that 250k was their own and not taken out of some sort of public fund. Not that it's not enlightening and all, but it doesn't justify taking away that much money.

The money was donated by people interested in the project. IMHO, they haven't necessarily been ripped off. The GravityLight is not excluded by physics, unless you make incorrect assumptions about lighting requirements.

Didn't mean to imply that it was.

Also.

Nice memes supplied by AtheismPlusPlus
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/ ... 698588.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/p2CeR.jpg

[Oneiros666]

Glorious, glorious. Finally some sane fucking people.

I tried to join the Atheism+ forum. Why? Because I have seen the YouTube drama regarding these people and I wanted to see for myself if things were as bad as most of the YT vids criticising claimed. Boy oh boy was my initial impression (from YT) not only verified, I am now pissed off and feel a nice, burning hatred towards Atheism+.

Here is what happened:

I lurked on their forum for a day. Reading thread after thread concerning all topics except atheism. Oh, they have a little section called atheism, but it's almost inactive and mostly dedicated to bashing Dawkins and Hitchens. That's right, bashing the very people who have made atheism great in the 21st century West. But, by far, the most activity is seen on their "Atheism Plus" section, dealing with what these people actually want to deal with: Feminism and socialism. There are so many fucked up threads in there dealing with made- up problems it's laughable. Here is an example:

They spent several pages of discussion on which letters should come first when using the GLBT acronym. Why? Because putting 'G' first (Gay) somehow implied that being a gay man was better than being a lesbian. Seriously, page after page of discussion.

They also have a long FAQ section where you are basically told that unless you are there to agree with the leaders' opinion and the virtues of radical feminism; you can fuck off. Great, innit? But I thought I couldn't just leave. No, they are doing too much harm to the cause of atheism and secularism. Had they called their movement 'Moral Atheism' or 'Progressive Atheists' or something like that, I wouldn't have bothered as much. But they don't call it that and they insist on hijacking the entire atheist community (for verification of this: Rebecca Watson's campaign to ban her critics from attending TAM). So I wrote a lengthy critique of Atheism + where I politely (yes, politetly) told them my concerns regarding what they are doing. The result?

http://i.imgur.com/qCSXH.png

I fucking hate Rebecca Watson, Greta Christina, PZ Myers, Melody Hensley and all the rest of those fuckers. They are ruining atheism for the rest of us and I sincerely hope that enough rational people can stand up to those fuckers and make them seize and desist.

Have a good new years and I leave you with this cool image I stole from the awesome MykeruMedia:

http://i.imgur.com/5kZ7k.png

[Za-zen]

Muhahaha the evil spreads. Soon my pretties, soon we shall have the whole atheist movement chanting our chant of mysoginist victory " cunt, cunt cunt!" They shall chant. " Rape to the twatson" will be our warcry!

[Eucliwood]

http://i.imgur.com/Wm4lg.jpg

HAHAAHAA OH SHIT THATS GREAT.

Glorious, glorious. Finally some sane fucking people.

I tried to join the Atheism+ forum. Why? Because I have seen the YouTube drama regarding these people and I wanted to see for myself if things were as bad as most of the YT vids criticising claimed. Boy oh boy was my initial impression (from YT) not only verified, I am now pissed off and feel a nice, burning hatred towards Atheism+.

Here is what happened:

I lurked on their forum for a day. Reading thread after thread concerning all topics except atheism. Oh, they have a little section called atheism, but it's almost inactive and mostly dedicated to bashing Dawkins and Hitchens. That's right, bashing the very people who have made atheism great in the 21st century West. But, by far, the most activity is seen on their "Atheism Plus" section, dealing with what these people actually want to deal with: Feminism and socialism. There are so many fucked up threads in there dealing with made- up problems it's laughable. Here is an example:

They spent several pages of discussion on which letters should come first when using the GLBT acronym. Why? Because putting 'G' first (Gay) somehow implied that being a gay man was better than being a lesbian. Seriously, page after page of discussion.

They also have a long FAQ section where you are basically told that unless you are there to agree with the leaders' opinion and the virtues of radical feminism; you can fuck off. Great, innit? But I thought I couldn't just leave. No, they are doing too much harm to the cause of atheism and secularism. Had they called their movement 'Moral Atheism' or 'Progressive Atheists' or something like that, I wouldn't have bothered as much. But they don't call it that and they insist on hijacking the entire atheist community (for verification of this: Rebecca Watson's campaign to ban her critics from attending TAM). So I wrote a lengthy critique of Atheism + where I politely (yes, politetly) told them my concerns regarding what they are doing. The result?

http://i.imgur.com/qCSXH.png

I fucking hate Rebecca Watson, Greta Christina, PZ Myers, Melody Hensley and all the rest of those fuckers. They are ruining atheism for the rest of us and I sincerely hope that enough rational people can stand up to those fuckers and make them seize and desist.

Have a good new years and I leave you with this cool image I stole from the awesome MykeruMedia:

http://i.imgur.com/5kZ7k.png

Oh, wow. Beautiful bullshit. What thread did you post your concerns in? I want to see what those fuckers have to say.

Personally, I was banned the first day I got there for a week (not sure why..they didn't give a reason), then the day my week ban was lifted I was banned again for asking someone if they used a tool to walk and what the length inequality was between their legs, if they didnt mind sharing (the person seemed pretty damn open and humorous about their leg length inequality, so I didn't think it'd be a problem).. but then they told me how extremely rude and bitchy I was, and when I predictably didn't take that so well, I told them I'd apologize if the person was offended, not to them, and stuff about how reacting this way to it might actually offend the guy, yada yada.

So I was banned for a week again. For asking a question and "doubling down." I was supposedly a wildly fucking rude ableist bully.

Then I made a post about an experience in which I was a victim of dark vs light bullying. Ceepolk, a moderator there, responded with some shit about how she couldnt exactly understand the point of my post (the fuck? the first mod who replied got it) but it seemed like -shit my post didn't say here-, and then she accused me of wanting to be white, told me the white people would never accept me, and then told me bullying is sad but if I continue the way I am (?), I am going to continue earning the contempt, distrust, etc, of dark black people.

At least I got a message of sympathy about how horrifying her reaction was.

So basically, victim blaming. Also, mixed/light phenotype racism, since I'm pretty sure the only reason she assumed I'd done something to provoke them and wanted to be white was because the victim in this case was light due to mixed ethnicities. I swear, I don't have to do ANYTHING to be accused of 'acting white'.



Then I went off on her and talked about how she turned on my water works and stuff.

Permabanned.

[Za-zen]

On a more serious note, as an employer, hensley would scare the shit out of me. Someone who sees rape, sexism, and harrasment under every toilet seat is a major liability.

[AnonymousCowherd]

Glorious, glorious. Finally some sane fucking people.

Well, hi! But let's not go overboard. I'm sure some of us are the same wacky, zany funsters we always were, but there are a few genuine crazies around the place. You'll spot them. Just don't make eye contact.

You'll need to see Mykeru about a hat too.

[Gumby]

So I wrote a lengthy critique of Atheism + where I politely (yes, politetly) told them my concerns regarding what they are doing.

Welcome, Oneiros666. Yours is not an atypical story here. Many of us, including myself, came here to check the Pit out after dissatisfaction with A+ or FTB.

Did you save your critique by any chance? It would be good to add it here.

[cunt]

Eucliwood, Oneiros666

Got links to these threads?

[Darren]

They spent several pages of discussion on which letters should come first when using the GLBT acronym. Why? Because putting 'G' first (Gay) somehow implied that being a gay man was better than being a lesbian. Seriously, page after page of discussion.

Do you have a link to this thread? I have been trying to find it for inclusion in the Phawrongula Wiki but have been unsuccessful. My Googlefu seems to be lacking in this area.

They also have a long FAQ section where you are basically told that unless you are there to agree with the leaders' opinion and the virtues of radical feminism; you can fuck off.

I do find amusement in the fact they give each new member a "link basket" filled with 100s of pages of crap you are supposed to read before posting.

Have a good new years and I leave you with this cool image I stole from the awesome MykeruMedia:

Mykeru is awesome, I agree. And so would he.

Welcome aboard!

[mutleyeng]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

The 132nd word should be "They"

[Eucliwood]

Eucliwood, Oneiros666

Got links to these threads?

I made a post about it so that people could see easily what happened... I got the thread in which the victim blaming occurred deleted (I'm sure the mod was happy to hide that shit...) because I didn't want more insane replies to my experience.

http://apintrom.blogspot.com/2012/12/pe ... mplus.html

Has links to what happened and shit.

This is about the specific permaban http://apintrom.blogspot.com/2012/12/wh ... -ever.html

Introm is a made up word meaning "outside forum", basically "outside replies to forum messages"

[Gumby]

Here's Oneiros666's post that earned the permaban.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 063#p60063

He/she seems pretty reasonable to me. That was probably the problem.

[Dilurk]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

I did some calculations with a commercially available off the shelf LED (COTS)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73&p=40678#p40678
not sure you saw this. The rough figure of 200J sounds right, the rest of PZs argument was nonsense. We are talking as you say, about a kerosene light equivalent not western standards. Key chain light brightness would be quite doable with a gravity light. To be charitable to PZ, which he is obviously unable of being, he and sustainability.autodesk were led astray by the earlier award for a gravity lamp, which is not what this new version is doing.

[real horrorshow]

Hey. Any of you looking for work?


http://i.imgur.com/7LnTi.png

By my estimate Hensley would fail on at least two of the three criteria to be her own intern.

[EdgePenguin]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

I did some calculations with a commercially available off the shelf LED (COTS)
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=73&p=40678#p40678
not sure you saw this. The rough figure of 200J sounds right, the rest of PZs argument was nonsense. We are talking as you say, about a kerosene light equivalent not western standards. Key chain light brightness would be quite doable with a gravity light. To be charitable to PZ, which he is obviously unable of being, he and sustainability.autodesk were led astray by the earlier award for a gravity lamp, which is not what this new version is doing.

They weren't led astray, they simple didn't bother to fully investigate the problem. They were exercising lightbulb privilege :)

To be led astray, someone has to feed you false information. Nobody did that here - the people in question simply saw an opportunity to preen their intellectual feathers and leapt on it without doing their homework.

[BarnOwl]

1) Women are more religious than men: http://www.pewforum.org/The-Stronger-Se ... aking.aspx
2007 study, in the US. 7-17 percentage point gap between women & men on each of the religiosity questions they asked (with women higher than men).

Besides which,

2) Women & men use their time differently online: (http://mashable.com/2010/07/28/women-on-the-web/
- Women are more likely to spend their online time on social networking than men
- Women spend more time shopping online and are more likely to make purchases (apparel, accessories, books, music, and toys)

1) DonKaneGate!

2) WomanspaceGate!

[tfoot]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit? FYI the last time they plotted as a group to do that... where they all conspired to release their blogs at the same time to be as devastating as possible, it resulted in me losing ~300 out of 150 000 subscribers. Wow, that blogging network is soooo powerfully influential!

Hmmm, kobolds, the one creature who everyone can laugh at without fear of reprisal!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivat ... 486800.jpg

[EdgePenguin]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

The 132nd word should be "They"

I'm not rising to this :P

[Darren]

I made a post about it so that people could see easily what happened... I got the thread in which the victim blaming occurred deleted (I'm sure the mod was happy to hide that shit...) because I didn't want more insane replies to my experience.

http://apintrom.blogspot.com/2012/12/pe ... mplus.html

Has links to what happened and shit.

Is this in a members-only section? When I follow the links from your blog I get told I need to log in. I've tried registering an account there, but never recieved the confirmation email. Maybe I shouldn't have used an anagram of 'slymepit' as my username... I just didn't think the mods were that smart.

Thanks for sharing.

[Eucliwood]

Here's Oneiros666's post that earned the permaban.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 063#p60063

He/she seems pretty reasonable to me. That was probably the problem.

when I bitch (*Mod Note: Casual gendered slur. Hmm. Gosh folks, why is this atheism+ thing needed again? I just cannot tell...) and moan: I do something about it.

LOL did he seriously cross out the verb form of "bitch"??? And call it a gender slur? BITCHING AND MOANING. A COMMONLY ACCEPTED PHRASE. Even amongst people that don't approve of "bitch" being used as a name-call. What a lunatic.

It's like we said all along, atheism leads to socialism.

In your prediction of what they'd say, are you implying that socialism is /bad/, or just saying that christians who don't like it will have an excuse to say that atheism leads to socialism?

They certainly are attempting to hijack atheism though... with some radfemtheist bullshit. They should call themselves Femtheist+. The + can stand for additional assholery.

And you say you're anti-socialist... well, if you are ANTI socialist going to a socialist board... of course you'll be banned. I would completely agree with the ban if it was just about the fact that you called yourself anti-socialist. I'm disappointed to say that I actually agree with a ban that A+ did. Not for all the reasons they did it, but still, nonetheless.

[AnonymousCowherd]

On a more serious note, as an employer, hensley would scare the shit out of me. Someone who sees rape, sexism, and harrasment under every toilet seat is a major liability.

Once it gets to a certain level, it's all about self interest. In a big organisation, you hire the loudest mouth, give them a nice office and a budget and let them hire any crazy they want, but you make it clear that their interests and the company's/administration's interests are closely related. The smart ones take the hint and play the game. You get to say you are proudly dealing with all that Xism shit, and you get to dump any issues involving that shit on the office you created. This works especially well in government, where the idea is to take a problem down a quiet alley and strangle it, rather than solve it. I have seen whole government offices created for this reason and never met one femocrat who led them who wasn't completely "pragmatic" (as Jim Hacker might say) about her job. The underlings were often True Believers, but they rarely seemed to work out that the people constraining them were there so-called feminist bosses who, as feminist heros, were beyond criticism (unless you were a fascist. How do you know you're a fascist? You criticise... etc etc). If they did work out the game, they were well on the way to playing it themselves.

That said, I wouldn't hire Henslay either, not just for the headache she'd try to be, but because I can't see her contributing much to any organisation, given her performance in the current melee.

[Eucliwood]

I made a post about it so that people could see easily what happened... I got the thread in which the victim blaming occurred deleted (I'm sure the mod was happy to hide that shit...) because I didn't want more insane replies to my experience.

http://apintrom.blogspot.com/2012/12/pe ... mplus.html

Has links to what happened and shit.

Is this in a members-only section? When I follow the links from your blog I get told I need to log in. I've tried registering an account there, but never recieved the confirmation email. Maybe I shouldn't have used an anagram of 'slymepit' as my username... I just didn't think the mods were that smart.

Thanks for sharing.

Oh, okay. Well just login with the username "Unavailable" and use the password "daegfaerch". But don't post on that account, or you'll get it banned... unless it already is banned. Shoot. I did post one post with it. But yeah, that's only so people can view bullshit.

[EdgePenguin]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit? FYI the last time they plotted as a group to do that... where they all conspired to release their blogs at the same time to be as devastating as possible, it resulted in me losing ~300 out of 150 000 subscribers. Wow, that blogging network is soooo powerfully influential!

Hmmm, kobolds, the one creature who everyone can laugh at without fear of reprisal!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivat ... 486800.jpg

You are an unperson. Why would they respond to someone who no longer exists?

[Za-zen]

Hello my name is za-zen.

I took my first sip of the pyt during elevatorgate. I was an axp'er at the time, and was dumbfounded by the crazy that was consuming the atheist movement. Pitches and dorks were being pulled from vaginas and stef was hung out as an enemy of everything that decent people had died for.

Axp had its civil war, and most of the sane people realised there was something very very wrong in American Atheism, a kind of crazy fundamentalism tightly tied to feminism. A particular and peculiar American brand of feminism, which many are so indoctrinated in, that religion is a poor relation in the delusion stakes. I sat back and watched the implosion. The coffee was merely the catalyst.

I lurked at the pyt, as it was one of the few holdouts for sanity, reason and critical analysis. Then i sacked following online atheism. I returned to find all the pro ideologue blogs of the twatson affair had gathered round a single banner. Freethought blogs. A misnomer if ever there was one. I engaged in a few discussions there, and soon realised how sick online atheism had become. A lot of topics were now out of bounds. Or rather a lot of opinions on given topics were out of bounds. They had created their own propaganda machine from which to sell their brand of atheism. Atheismplus was around long before they named it.

Witch hunts, and purges were the order of the day, so naturally it wasn't long before i was banned from my old haunt (axp) for the temerity of saying szwan was a dogmatist, and evidencing it. Naturally i have haunted this watering hole ever since.

[BarnOwl]

They weren't led astray, they simple didn't bother to fully investigate the problem. They were exercising lightbulb privilege :)

To be led astray, someone has to feed you false information. Nobody did that here - the people in question simply saw an opportunity to preen their intellectual feathers and leapt on it without doing their homework.

I Blame The Lumenarchy.

[Darren]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

I figure that either:

a) The word had come down from PZ/Ed to not respond because they don't want to give you attention; or
b) The word had come down from PZ/Ed to not respond because they don't want to give your arguments attention.

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

I consider this to be the most likely explanation. Occams razor and all that shit.

[AnonymousCowherd]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit? FYI the last time they plotted as a group to do that... where they all conspired to release their blogs at the same time to be as devastating as possible, it resulted in me losing ~300 out of 150 000 subscribers. Wow, that blogging network is soooo powerfully influential!

Hmmm, kobolds, the one creature who everyone can laugh at without fear of reprisal!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivat ... 486800.jpg

I'm going with "don't give it oxygen and it will go away". It will be interesting to see who cracks first - someone will.

[AndrewV69]

According to this guy, PeeZuss Christ is everywhere!

Towards an Integrated Perspective on Gender, Masculinity, and Manhood
JOHN A. ASHFIELD, PHD

http://newmalestudies.com/OJS/index.php ... File/15/10#

Academe in the West, has, in certain of its disciplines, betrayed
a sacred trust. It has acquiesced to a bullying pseudo-intellectual, self-appointed gender
commentariat. It has permitted ideology to have ascendancy over intellectual integrity,
creating a legacy of gender adversarialism, a jaundiced and disintegrative
perspective of psychosocial reality, and a dogmatic fundamentalism unaccommodating
of any potential disconfirmation.

NEW MALE STUDIES: AN INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL ~ ISSN 1839-7816 ~ VOL. 1, ISSUE 1, 2012, PP. 19-30
© 2012 AUSTRALIAN INSTITUTE OF MALE HEALTH AND STUDIES.

h/t AVfM

[Oneiros666]

Here's Oneiros666's post that earned the permaban.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 063#p60063

He/she seems pretty reasonable to me. That was probably the problem.

when I bitch (*Mod Note: Casual gendered slur. Hmm. Gosh folks, why is this atheism+ thing needed again? I just cannot tell...) and moan: I do something about it.

LOL did he seriously cross out the verb form of "bitch"??? And call it a gender slur? BITCHING AND MOANING. A COMMONLY ACCEPTED PHRASE. Even amongst people that don't approve of "bitch" being used as a name-call. What a lunatic.

It's like we said all along, atheism leads to socialism.

In your prediction of what they'd say, are you implying that socialism is /bad/, or just saying that christians who don't like it will have an excuse to say that atheism leads to socialism?

They certainly are attempting to hijack atheism though... with some radfemtheist bullshit. They should call themselves Femtheist+. The + can stand for additional assholery.

And you say you're anti-socialist... well, if you are ANTI socialist going to a socialist board... of course you'll be banned. I would completely agree with the ban if it was just about the fact that you called yourself anti-socialist. I'm disappointed to say that I actually agree with a ban that A+ did. Not for all the reasons they did it, but still, nonetheless.

Hehe. Hi there :)

I didn't notice that my little critique was actually posted (I only got the permaban message when I opened A+, and frankly I have had enough of reading that shitty shit they have there).

Okay, so a few things you bring up:

Yes, she crossed out the word 'bitch'. It's amazing how fucked up these cunts are. And I mean that in the most derogatory anti-women way possible =P

I didn't say that atheism leads to socialism. I said that Republicans/Christians/Apologists/etc would use that argument with double force now that A+ tries to link atheism to socialist isssues. My whole point is that atheism is not about socialism. Or capitalism. Or squirrels. Or bagels. It is about a disbelief in god(s). End of fucking story.

And I wasn't surprised about being banned. Nope, I even started my critique with it as I had read enough to know that my critique would probably lead to bannage. I am, as my dear old folks used to say, not angry; merely disappointed.

Here is why I am disappointed with them: They (the AtheismPlus folks) do not wish to engage in critique. They try to label critique as 'trolling'. It is not. Trolling is someone posting provocative shit just to be provocative. That was not my intention. My intention was to be vocal about my concerns about AtheismPlus. I was very honest about my own standpoint, what I believe and what I think. They claim my points have been addressed before, but they haven't. Not to any level of satisfaction anywhere anyhoo. For example: The name. How can they not understand that their hijacking of the term atheism is fucking provocative? It is beyond me.

Anyhoo, thanks for all the replies :) I am starting to really dig this place.

[EdgePenguin]

According to this guy, PeeZuss Christ is everywhere!

Towards an Integrated Perspective on Gender, Masculinity, and Manhood
JOHN A. ASHFIELD, PHD

http://newmalestudies.com/OJS/index.php ... File/15/10#

Academe in the West, has, in certain of its disciplines, betrayed
a sacred trust. It has acquiesced to a bullying pseudo-intellectual, self-appointed gender
commentariat. It has permitted ideology to have ascendancy over intellectual integrity,
creating a legacy of gender adversarialism, a jaundiced and disintegrative
perspective of psychosocial reality, and a dogmatic fundamentalism unaccommodating
of any potential disconfirmation.

NEW MALE STUDIES: AN INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL ~ ISSN 1839-7816 ~ VOL. 1, ISSUE 1, 2012, PP. 19-30
© 2012 AUSTRALIAN INSTITUTE OF MALE HEALTH AND STUDIES.

h/t AVfM

The formatting of that essay may be scientific-ish, but the language is anything but. None of the astrophysics papers I read refer to people who have an opposing viewpoint as 'bullying psuedo-intellectual self appointed X commentariat'. The most inflammatory thing I've read in astrophysics so far is "X chose to ignore this data", which was written in anger during the height of the cusp-core debate. Maybe I'm not looking at sufficiently foul-mouthed journals.

I'm sure the guy has some valid points (TL;DR) but it just bugs me a little when people display outward trappings of academia/science when their content is basically polemic.

[Eucliwood]

Here's Oneiros666's post that earned the permaban.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 063#p60063

He/she seems pretty reasonable to me. That was probably the problem.

when I bitch (*Mod Note: Casual gendered slur. Hmm. Gosh folks, why is this atheism+ thing needed again? I just cannot tell...) and moan: I do something about it.

LOL did he seriously cross out the verb form of "bitch"??? And call it a gender slur? BITCHING AND MOANING. A COMMONLY ACCEPTED PHRASE. Even amongst people that don't approve of "bitch" being used as a name-call. What a lunatic.

It's like we said all along, atheism leads to socialism.

In your prediction of what they'd say, are you implying that socialism is /bad/, or just saying that christians who don't like it will have an excuse to say that atheism leads to socialism?

They certainly are attempting to hijack atheism though... with some radfemtheist bullshit. They should call themselves Femtheist+. The + can stand for additional assholery.

And you say you're anti-socialist... well, if you are ANTI socialist going to a socialist board... of course you'll be banned. I would completely agree with the ban if it was just about the fact that you called yourself anti-socialist. I'm disappointed to say that I actually agree with a ban that A+ did. Not for all the reasons they did it, but still, nonetheless.

Hehe. Hi there :)

I didn't notice that my little critique was actually posted (I only got the permaban message when I opened A+, and frankly I have had enough of reading that shitty shit they have there).

Okay, so a few things you bring up:

Yes, she crossed out the word 'bitch'. It's amazing how fucked up these cunts are. And I mean that in the most derogatory anti-women way possible =P

I didn't say that atheism leads to socialism. I said that Republicans/Christians/Apologists/etc would use that argument with double force now that A+ tries to link atheism to socialist isssues. My whole point is that atheism is not about socialism. Or capitalism. Or squirrels. Or bagels. It is about a disbelief in god(s). End of fucking story.

And I wasn't surprised about being banned. Nope, I even started my critique with it as I had read enough to know that my critique would probably lead to bannage. I am, as my dear old folks used to say, not angry; merely disappointed.

Here is why I am disappointed with them: They (the AtheismPlus folks) do not wish to engage in critique. They try to label critique as 'trolling'. It is not. Trolling is someone posting provocative shit just to be provocative. That was not my intention. My intention was to be vocal about my concerns about AtheismPlus. I was very honest about my own standpoint, what I believe and what I think. They claim my points have been addressed before, but they haven't. Not to any level of satisfaction anywhere anyhoo. For example: The name. How can they not understand that their hijacking of the term atheism is fucking provocative? It is beyond me.

Anyhoo, thanks for all the replies :) I am starting to really dig this place.

Yeah, I critiqued them on the first time there too. I don't excuse them for dismissing the other critique, but I think it's fine to ban someone if they go in saying "well, this board is socialist, and I'm anti socialist." No point in engaging in debate about a board's entire purpose, (the purpose even when you strip it of the radicalness and extremism). That board grosses me out, but so does anti-socialism. It's like being anti-kittensandrainbows. What the hell, dude?

[Jan Steen]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

Good, clear piece, but calling Simon Singh a 'libel defendant' could be read the wrong way (as if he was prone to libel people). The libel trial was an attempt by a bunch of chiropractors to silence him, as you know.

[EdgePenguin]

*snip*

I didn't say that atheism leads to socialism. I said that Republicans/Christians/Apologists/etc would use that argument with double force now that A+ tries to link atheism to socialist isssues. My whole point is that atheism is not about socialism. Or capitalism. Or squirrels. Or bagels. It is about a disbelief in god(s). End of fucking story.

I'm confused how you got started on socialism. What the fuck has Atheism+ got to do with socialism? At one point between screaming at people for tone trolling and swinging the ban hammer and anybody who disagrees with them are they going to even advocate (let alone work towards in any real sense) securing control of the means of production for the masses? You think even the most shameful, unreformed Socialist Worker trot would be seen dead with these clowns?

Here is the thing with 'social justice'. There IS injustice in the world. Deep, horrific injustice that kills millions through preventable disease, dirty water, and starvation (poverty, basically). A socialist would concern themselves with this injustice, and seek ways to rectify it by redistributing money and/or economic control on a global scale. Many do just that. I concern myself with this, even though I only roughly accept the label 'socialist' as it tends to come with some baggage that doesn't apply to me.

Even within western societies, there is actual injustice. Despite the economic crisis we all live in incredibly wealthy civilizations, experiencing a plenty that would've seemed utopian fantasy a century ago - and yet we have homelessness, malnutrition, and disease in our midst. A socialist would be concerned with these things, as am I.

However, the social justice warriors that currently infest the atheist movement do not care about any of this. They care about the terrible, crushing injustices visited upon well-fed, middle class, university educated women who've been asked for coffee in elevators.

[AnonymousCowherd]

And that's New Year in my neck of the woods. Happy 1974 everybody!

[mutleyeng]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

The 132nd word should be "They"

I'm not rising to this :P

ho hum...you can lead a horse to water.....

seriously though, the idea behind you blog was a nice idea.
You should see if you can rekindle your google plus interest. Now they have communities, you can pimp your work to a wider audience, and theoretical astrophysics is pretty popular interest over there.

[EdgePenguin]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

Good, clear piece, but calling Simon Singh a 'libel defendant' could be read the wrong way (as if he was prone to libel people). The libel trial was an attempt by a bunch of chiropractors to silence him, as you know.

No intent to suggest that at all. I can't think of any better way of saying "that guy who rightfully won a libel case against him bought by a bunch of ignorant litigious quacks" though.

[EdgePenguin]

I've blogged a summary of the business with PZ Myers and the GravityLight (lumengate?)

http://edgepenguin.com/content/enlightenment.html

If I've got anything wrong I'd appreciate it pointing out.

The 132nd word should be "They"

I'm not rising to this :P

ho hum...you can lead a horse to water.....

seriously though, the idea behind you blog was a nice idea.
You should see if you can rekindle your google plus interest. Now they have communities, you can pimp your work to a wider audience, and theoretical astrophysics is pretty popular interest over there.

Hmm, its changed. Who are you on there btw?

[Gumby]

Off to my mother's to see what the fuck is wrong with her TV. God forbid she should miss any reality TV shows :roll:

Don't forget, the all-important 40,000th post is coming up soon. The person who posts it will be awarded a custom-designed* racist hat from internationally-renowned hat designer Mykeru Versace.

*copy-pasted

[KacyRay]

Here's Oneiros666's post that earned the permaban.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 063#p60063

He/she seems pretty reasonable to me. That was probably the problem.

Jesus Christ...

Just goes to show, you can't fix stupid. You can only hand them bingo cards.

He was perfectly reasonable. He made a legitimate case. Clearly that's not allowed at A+.

[Eucliwood]

Here's Oneiros666's post that earned the permaban.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 063#p60063

He/she seems pretty reasonable to me. That was probably the problem.

Jesus Christ...

Just goes to show, you can't fix stupid. You can only hand them bingo cards.

He was perfectly reasonable. He made a legitimate case. Clearly that's not allowed at A+.

Yea, it's not.. I'm surprised they didn't twist what he said into something totally misogynistic and stupid like they did with me. Could've been worse.

[Oneiros666]

That board grosses me out, but so does anti-socialism. It's like being anti-kittensandrainbows. What the hell, dude?

Hello again!

Very cool that you reply to me, appreciate it :)

Kittens and rainbows are fucking horrible. Kittens make me sneeze and rainbows only occurs when it fucking rains. Rain, dude. It's like, totally wet and shit.

Nah, but seriously: Disclaimer: I am from Norway. The use of the term socialism is probably different here than in the US or UK (I am blatantly assuming you are from there). Scandinavia is already pretty much socialist in the eyes of the average North-American, but not in the eyes of us vikings. When I state that I am anti-socialist I mean it in the Karl Marx / Engels socialism sort of way. And yes, I know the difference between communism and socialism. Communism is a socialist ideology, just as anarchism and social-democracy is. I am in favour of what is often, in the US, called socialist values, for example:

- Anti death penalty
- Universal health care
- Basic economic safety net for everyone
- Univeral coverage of education

But I am vehemently against the radical feminists and their bullshit. I am very much against the idea of progressive taxation and I am very much against the idea that taxes solve everything (very common among scandinavian socialists). I am also very much against limitations on free speech under the guise of 'hate speech laws'; something socialists in Norway advocate. I am very much against police officers being allowed to don religious symbols such as hijab (socialists wants this in the name of PC) and I abhor 'affirmative action' (including laws that state that a so-and-so percentage of board members have to be female) laws. To name a few things.

I think it is odd that they ban everyone who disagrees with their 'platform'. If I started a forum, I would welcome people who disagreed with me. I mean, circle- jerking is fun for some people; but I grow tired of it since I always end up having to eat the limp biscuit.

[mutleyeng]

Hmm, its changed. Who are you on there btw?

oh I'm a nobody, dont really produce content, but there is a very vibrant astronomy- planetary sciences community interest, which is what keeps my google plus interest alive... my nym being tim hem FWIW

[RichardReed84]

I've commented on Greta Christina's blog regarding the Ophelia Benson impersonators. I wonder how long my comment will stay up?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/greta/2012/ ... ment-99833

[Eucliwood]

That board grosses me out, but so does anti-socialism. It's like being anti-kittensandrainbows. What the hell, dude?

Hello again!

Very cool that you reply to me, appreciate it :)

Kittens and rainbows are fucking horrible. Kittens make me sneeze and rainbows only occurs when it fucking rains. Rain, dude. It's like, totally wet and shit.

Nah, but seriously: Disclaimer: I am from Norway. The use of the term socialism is probably different here than in the US or UK (I am blatantly assuming you are from there). Scandinavia is already pretty much socialist in the eyes of the average North-American, but not in the eyes of us vikings. When I state that I am anti-socialist I mean it in the Karl Marx / Engels socialism sort of way. And yes, I know the difference between communism and socialism. Communism is a socialist ideology, just as anarchism and social-democracy is. I am in favour of what is often, in the US, called socialist values, for example:

- Anti death penalty
- Universal health care
- Basic economic safety net for everyone
- Univeral coverage of education

But I am vehemently against the radical feminists and their bullshit. I am very much against the idea of progressive taxation and I am very much against the idea that taxes solve everything (very common among scandinavian socialists). I am also very much against limitations on free speech under the guise of 'hate speech laws'; something socialists in Norway advocate. I am very much against police officers being allowed to don religious symbols such as hijab (socialists wants this in the name of PC) and I abhor 'affirmative action' (including laws that state that a so-and-so percentage of board members have to be female) laws. To name a few things.

I think it is odd that they ban everyone who disagrees with their 'platform'. If I started a forum, I would welcome people who disagreed with me. I mean, circle- jerking is fun for some people; but I grow tired of it since I always end up having to eat the limp biscuit.

Oh okay. Well, don't use the term "anti socialist" everywhere cos Ive never seen that definition of anti socialism in my life. As for progressive tax... are you saying you're vehemently against taxing people for their wealth? It certainly helped here, with clinton... and then when bush wanted that shit undone....

Crash.

I am totally for that. If we're going to tax people, why not tax them for money they don't really need? Tax people who make less, well, less. Makes sense to me. If I made a great amount of money I wouldn't mind being taxed more. I don't understand being for taxes but being against taxing people who make more, more.

[Eucliwood]

Yeah, people who disagree with me would be welcome on my forum. People who disagreed with the entire purpose of the forum would be free to post in an Opposing Views section (but nowhere else, because I dont want debates against the entire purpose of the forum all over my forum).

[AnonymousCowherd]

Off to my mother's to see what the fuck is wrong with her TV. God forbid she should miss any reality TV shows :roll:

Don't forget, the all-important 40,000th post is coming up soon. The person who posts it will be awarded a custom-designed* racist hat from internationally-renowned hat designer Mykeru Versace.

*copy-pasted

Wanna bet who is most likely to win, given posting rates? I thought not.

I'm keeping my powder dry for the millionth post. Should be about next week sometime.

[Jan Steen]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit? FYI the last time they plotted as a group to do that... where they all conspired to release their blogs at the same time to be as devastating as possible, it resulted in me losing ~300 out of 150 000 subscribers. Wow, that blogging network is soooo powerfully influential!

Wait, they are not the Evil Empire, but just a bunch of inept wannabees? Who knew?

Let's keep it that way.

[Oneiros666]

Oh okay. Well, don't use the term "anti socialist" everywhere cos Ive never seen that definition of anti socialism in my life. As for progressive tax... are you saying you're vehemently against taxing people for their wealth? It certainly helped here, with clinton... and then when bush wanted that shit undone....

Crash.

I am totally for that. If we're going to tax people, why not tax them for money they don't really need? Tax people who make less, well, less. Makes sense to me. If I made a great amount of money I wouldn't mind being taxed more. I don't understand being for taxes but being against taxing people who make more, more.

Hello again :)

Well, the important thing to remember when discussing tax policy with Norwegians is that we currently have a total tax level of about 70 % of our income. In 'Mmerica I believe your have quite a lower total rate. Note: I include VAT and other levies in the total tax level. For example:

- In Norway gasoline are taxed at approximately 88 % (one litre of gas costs 5 bucks, i.e. one gallon costs about 21 bucks here).
- Alcohol is taxed at around 70 %. One bottle of middle-of-the-road red wine costs 28 bucks at the state monopoly alcohol outlet
- All merchandise are taxed at 28 %. So, for example, a bottle of coke's gross price is maybe 1 dollar. But then you have to add 28 % VAT (1,28), then you have to add the sugar tax (no joke) making the price about 2 bucks. Then you have to add the CO2 tax, making the price about 2,3 bucks.
- Income tax starts at 28 % (everyone have to pay this), then increases progressively up until 49 % (when you earn $132 000 and above). The exception is capital gains, which is always taxed at 28 %. So the truly rich only pay 28 % (this was introduced by our socialist PM in 1993).

So you can understand us Norse dudes may (again, I assume) have a bit more gripe with the tax-issue than the average North-American.

But to your argument of 'earn more- pay more, earn less- pay less'. Is 28 % of 1 million dollars more or less than 28 % of 100k dollars? I do not buy the 'they can afford it, so they should pay' argument. In Norway we do not have a deficit. We have an annual surplus of about 1 BILL dollars, and we're only 5 million people. I am far more sympathetic to the tax policies of left-wingers in the US considering you have a huge deficit to deal with. But I would still argue that mayhaps you should start with reducing your military costs by half before you start taxing everyone, but I do not live in your country; so I understand that my opinions regarding this are worth diddly-squat.

[franc]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit?

They are in a horrible, horrible place -

* they know no matter what course of action or response they take, it will end badly and only make it worse

* but, their hubris, narcissism and religious conviction that they have a Manifest Destiny to bring the light to all of secularism cannot be contained

Something has to give. My rule of thumb for dealing with baboons is to imagine the absolute worst, most spiteful and disgusting thing they could ever do to you - and then plan for double that. There is no reliable way to predict what kind of filth they will resort to.

[Eucliwood]

Oh okay. Well, don't use the term "anti socialist" everywhere cos Ive never seen that definition of anti socialism in my life. As for progressive tax... are you saying you're vehemently against taxing people for their wealth? It certainly helped here, with clinton... and then when bush wanted that shit undone....

Crash.

I am totally for that. If we're going to tax people, why not tax them for money they don't really need? Tax people who make less, well, less. Makes sense to me. If I made a great amount of money I wouldn't mind being taxed more. I don't understand being for taxes but being against taxing people who make more, more.

Hello again :)

Well, the important thing to remember when discussing tax policy with Norwegians is that we currently have a total tax level of about 70 % of our income. In 'Mmerica I believe your have quite a lower total rate. Note: I include VAT and other levies in the total tax level. For example:

- In Norway gasoline are taxed at approximately 88 % (one litre of gas costs 5 bucks, i.e. one gallon costs about 21 bucks here).
- Alcohol is taxed at around 70 %. One bottle of middle-of-the-road red wine costs 28 bucks at the state monopoly alcohol outlet
- All merchandise are taxed at 28 %. So, for example, a bottle of coke's gross price is maybe 1 dollar. But then you have to add 28 % VAT (1,28), then you have to add the sugar tax (no joke) making the price about 2 bucks. Then you have to add the CO2 tax, making the price about 2,3 bucks.
- Income tax starts at 28 % (everyone have to pay this), then increases progressively up until 49 % (when you earn $132 000 and above). The exception is capital gains, which is always taxed at 28 %. So the truly rich only pay 28 % (this was introduced by our socialist PM in 1993).

So you can understand us Norse dudes may (again, I assume) have a bit more gripe with the tax-issue than the average North-American.

But to your argument of 'earn more- pay more, earn less- pay less'. Is 28 % of 1 million dollars more or less than 28 % of 100k dollars? I do not buy the 'they can afford it, so they should pay' argument. In Norway we do not have a deficit. We have an annual surplus of about 1 BILL dollars, and we're only 5 million people. I am far more sympathetic to the tax policies of left-wingers in the US considering you have a huge deficit to deal with. But I would still argue that mayhaps you should start with reducing your military costs by half before you start taxing everyone, but I do not live in your country; so I understand that my opinions regarding this are worth diddly-squat.

28% of 1 million dollars is more than 28% of 100k dollars. Are you saying you do not approve of taking 28% of 1 million dollars as you take of 100k dollars or what? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. And if the country needs more help, hell, take even MORE from 1 million dollars. No guilt on my chest.

[Tigzy]

Hey. Any of you looking for work?


http://i.imgur.com/7LnTi.png

Must not be fond of Peperamis or Slim Jims.

[EdgePenguin]

Hello again :)

Well, the important thing to remember when discussing tax policy with Norwegians is that we currently have a total tax level of about 70 % of our income. In 'Mmerica I believe your have quite a lower total rate. Note: I include VAT and other levies in the total tax level. For example:

- In Norway gasoline are taxed at approximately 88 % (one litre of gas costs 5 bucks, i.e. one gallon costs about 21 bucks here).

This is a regressive tax; if you spend more of your income on petrol (e.g. if you are a low paid worker who commutes in a car) you get hit harder by this tax. I'm puzzled as to why this is a plank of your opposition to progressive tax?

- Alcohol is taxed at around 70 %. One bottle of middle-of-the-road red wine costs 28 bucks at the state monopoly alcohol outlet

Unless being rich affords you a few dozen extra livers, this is going to again hit the poor proportionally harder than the rich. Again regressive.

- All merchandise are taxed at 28 %. So, for example, a bottle of coke's gross price is maybe 1 dollar. But then you have to add 28 % VAT (1,28), then you have to add the sugar tax (no joke) making the price about 2 bucks. Then you have to add the CO2 tax, making the price about 2,3 bucks.

VAT normally has some lip service to being progressive (i.e. exemptions on essential items such as food) but it is basically flat (or arguably regressive, as rich people can often avoid it, or spend their money on things it doesn't apply to such as financial instruments)

- Income tax starts at 28 % (everyone have to pay this), then increases progressively up until 49 % (when you earn $132 000 and above). The exception is capital gains, which is always taxed at 28 %. So the truly rich only pay 28 % (this was introduced by our socialist PM in 1993).

You are now complaining that the progressive taxation in Norway is not progressive enough!

So you can understand us Norse dudes may (again, I assume) have a bit more gripe with the tax-issue than the average North-American.

But to your argument of 'earn more- pay more, earn less- pay less'. Is 28 % of 1 million dollars more or less than 28 % of 100k dollars? I do not buy the 'they can afford it, so they should pay' argument. In Norway we do not have a deficit. We have an annual surplus of about 1 BILL dollars, and we're only 5 million people. I am far more sympathetic to the tax policies of left-wingers in the US considering you have a huge deficit to deal with. But I would still argue that mayhaps you should start with reducing your military costs by half before you start taxing everyone, but I do not live in your country; so I understand that my opinions regarding this are worth diddly-squat.

I should've thought Norway is going to want to keep running a healthy surplus for when the North Sea oil runs out? My impression is that your government was far wiser investing that windfall than ours in the UK was.

[Eucliwood]

Hello again :)

Well, the important thing to remember when discussing tax policy with Norwegians is that we currently have a total tax level of about 70 % of our income. In 'Mmerica I believe your have quite a lower total rate. Note: I include VAT and other levies in the total tax level. For example:

- In Norway gasoline are taxed at approximately 88 % (one litre of gas costs 5 bucks, i.e. one gallon costs about 21 bucks here).

This is a regressive tax; if you spend more of your income on petrol (e.g. if you are a low paid worker who commutes in a car) you get hit harder by this tax. I'm puzzled as to why this is a plank of your opposition to progressive tax?

- Alcohol is taxed at around 70 %. One bottle of middle-of-the-road red wine costs 28 bucks at the state monopoly alcohol outlet

Unless being rich affords you a few dozen extra livers, this is going to again hit the poor proportionally harder than the rich. Again regressive.

- All merchandise are taxed at 28 %. So, for example, a bottle of coke's gross price is maybe 1 dollar. But then you have to add 28 % VAT (1,28), then you have to add the sugar tax (no joke) making the price about 2 bucks. Then you have to add the CO2 tax, making the price about 2,3 bucks.

VAT normally has some lip service to being progressive (i.e. exemptions on essential items such as food) but it is basically flat (or arguably regressive, as rich people can often avoid it, or spend their money on things it doesn't apply to such as financial instruments)

- Income tax starts at 28 % (everyone have to pay this), then increases progressively up until 49 % (when you earn $132 000 and above). The exception is capital gains, which is always taxed at 28 %. So the truly rich only pay 28 % (this was introduced by our socialist PM in 1993).

You are now complaining that the progressive taxation in Norway is not progressive enough!

So you can understand us Norse dudes may (again, I assume) have a bit more gripe with the tax-issue than the average North-American.

But to your argument of 'earn more- pay more, earn less- pay less'. Is 28 % of 1 million dollars more or less than 28 % of 100k dollars? I do not buy the 'they can afford it, so they should pay' argument. In Norway we do not have a deficit. We have an annual surplus of about 1 BILL dollars, and we're only 5 million people. I am far more sympathetic to the tax policies of left-wingers in the US considering you have a huge deficit to deal with. But I would still argue that mayhaps you should start with reducing your military costs by half before you start taxing everyone, but I do not live in your country; so I understand that my opinions regarding this are worth diddly-squat.

I should've thought Norway is going to want to keep running a healthy surplus for when the North Sea oil runs out? My impression is that your government was far wiser investing that windfall than ours in the UK was.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing here EdgePenguin... but I wasn't sure if I was interpreting his point right.

Ditto to this.

[dougal445]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit? FYI the last time they plotted as a group to do that... where they all conspired to release their blogs at the same time to be as devastating as possible, it resulted in me losing ~300 out of 150 000 subscribers. Wow, that blogging network is soooo powerfully influential!

Hmmm, kobolds, the one creature who everyone can laugh at without fear of reprisal!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivat ... 486800.jpg

I'm going with "don't give it oxygen and it will go away". It will be interesting to see who cracks first - someone will.

i've not seen the vid' yet (on phone / low bandwidth) but i understand thunder invites people to mirror? Hopefully many will thus providing plenty of oxygen making the convo (even if only on youtube) impossible to ignore. I really hope finally something will give, the baboons will have to listen.
Hoorah Thunder!

[Oneiros666]

Oh okay. Well, don't use the term "anti socialist" everywhere cos Ive never seen that definition of anti socialism in my life. As for progressive tax... are you saying you're vehemently against taxing people for their wealth? It certainly helped here, with clinton... and then when bush wanted that shit undone....

Crash.

I am totally for that. If we're going to tax people, why not tax them for money they don't really need? Tax people who make less, well, less. Makes sense to me. If I made a great amount of money I wouldn't mind being taxed more. I don't understand being for taxes but being against taxing people who make more, more.

Hello again :)

Well, the important thing to remember when discussing tax policy with Norwegians is that we currently have a total tax level of about 70 % of our income. In 'Mmerica I believe your have quite a lower total rate. Note: I include VAT and other levies in the total tax level. For example:

- In Norway gasoline are taxed at approximately 88 % (one litre of gas costs 5 bucks, i.e. one gallon costs about 21 bucks here).
- Alcohol is taxed at around 70 %. One bottle of middle-of-the-road red wine costs 28 bucks at the state monopoly alcohol outlet
- All merchandise are taxed at 28 %. So, for example, a bottle of coke's gross price is maybe 1 dollar. But then you have to add 28 % VAT (1,28), then you have to add the sugar tax (no joke) making the price about 2 bucks. Then you have to add the CO2 tax, making the price about 2,3 bucks.
- Income tax starts at 28 % (everyone have to pay this), then increases progressively up until 49 % (when you earn $132 000 and above). The exception is capital gains, which is always taxed at 28 %. So the truly rich only pay 28 % (this was introduced by our socialist PM in 1993).

So you can understand us Norse dudes may (again, I assume) have a bit more gripe with the tax-issue than the average North-American.

But to your argument of 'earn more- pay more, earn less- pay less'. Is 28 % of 1 million dollars more or less than 28 % of 100k dollars? I do not buy the 'they can afford it, so they should pay' argument. In Norway we do not have a deficit. We have an annual surplus of about 1 BILL dollars, and we're only 5 million people. I am far more sympathetic to the tax policies of left-wingers in the US considering you have a huge deficit to deal with. But I would still argue that mayhaps you should start with reducing your military costs by half before you start taxing everyone, but I do not live in your country; so I understand that my opinions regarding this are worth diddly-squat.

28% of 1 million dollars is more than 28% of 100k dollars. Are you saying you do not approve of taking 28% of 1 million dollars as you take of 100k dollars or what? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. And if the country needs more help, hell, take even MORE from 1 million dollars. No guilt on my chest.

Hi :)

I am in favour of a reasonable level of taxation. But it should be flat. It shouldn't be progressive. If the flat tax level was applied rigorously, the truly rich (the 1 %) would actually pay more (in Norway) than they do today due to the many loopholes that exist today. I am not against taxes (I am no Ron Paul fan), but I am against punishing those who make more than others just because they do. Everyone should pay the same rate and imho this is fair as, again, 28 % of a million is more than 28 % of 100k.

But I totally get that people have differing views, I just happen to disagree with most of them ;-)

Back to my anti-socialism comment: Norway has been ruled by socialists for 8 years now and it's mainly due to our huge oil- fortune that we are doing well. Also, politics is not just about 'don't rock the boat' policies. It's about principles and I disagree with almost all of the Norwegian socialists' platform; hence I call myself anti-socialist.

[dougal445]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit? FYI the last time they plotted as a group to do that... where they all conspired to release their blogs at the same time to be as devastating as possible, it resulted in me losing ~300 out of 150 000 subscribers. Wow, that blogging network is soooo powerfully influential!

Hmmm, kobolds, the one creature who everyone can laugh at without fear of reprisal!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivat ... 486800.jpg

I'm going with "don't give it oxygen and it will go away". It will be interesting to see who cracks first - someone will.

i've not seen the vid' yet (on phone / low bandwidth) but i understand thunder invites people to mirror? Hopefully many will thus providing plenty of oxygen making the convo (even if only on youtube) impossible to ignore. I really hope finally something will give, the baboons will have to listen.
Hoorah Thunder!

[Scented Nectar]

okay, so its over 48 hrs since I put the video up, ~50k views and a 95 % approval rating,

and yet this is greeted by complete silence from baboon central. That's unprecedented!

Do they realize that they have been damned by their own words and the best thing they can do is ignore it and hope no one sees their stupidity/ hypocrisy?

Or are they saving it up for some devastating ad hominim 'we must drive TF out of the community like a pariah' type shit? FYI the last time they plotted as a group to do that... where they all conspired to release their blogs at the same time to be as devastating as possible, it resulted in me losing ~300 out of 150 000 subscribers. Wow, that blogging network is soooo powerfully influential!

Hmmm, kobolds, the one creature who everyone can laugh at without fear of reprisal!
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivat ... 486800.jpg

Sometimes, when certain people have pwned them too well, they close their eyes, stick their fingers in their ears, and go "lalalalallalaala you're not really there".

[Eucliwood]

Oh okay. Well, don't use the term "anti socialist" everywhere cos Ive never seen that definition of anti socialism in my life. As for progressive tax... are you saying you're vehemently against taxing people for their wealth? It certainly helped here, with clinton... and then when bush wanted that shit undone....

Crash.

I am totally for that. If we're going to tax people, why not tax them for money they don't really need? Tax people who make less, well, less. Makes sense to me. If I made a great amount of money I wouldn't mind being taxed more. I don't understand being for taxes but being against taxing people who make more, more.

Hello again :)

Well, the important thing to remember when discussing tax policy with Norwegians is that we currently have a total tax level of about 70 % of our income. In 'Mmerica I believe your have quite a lower total rate. Note: I include VAT and other levies in the total tax level. For example:

- In Norway gasoline are taxed at approximately 88 % (one litre of gas costs 5 bucks, i.e. one gallon costs about 21 bucks here).
- Alcohol is taxed at around 70 %. One bottle of middle-of-the-road red wine costs 28 bucks at the state monopoly alcohol outlet
- All merchandise are taxed at 28 %. So, for example, a bottle of coke's gross price is maybe 1 dollar. But then you have to add 28 % VAT (1,28), then you have to add the sugar tax (no joke) making the price about 2 bucks. Then you have to add the CO2 tax, making the price about 2,3 bucks.
- Income tax starts at 28 % (everyone have to pay this), then increases progressively up until 49 % (when you earn $132 000 and above). The exception is capital gains, which is always taxed at 28 %. So the truly rich only pay 28 % (this was introduced by our socialist PM in 1993).

So you can understand us Norse dudes may (again, I assume) have a bit more gripe with the tax-issue than the average North-American.

But to your argument of 'earn more- pay more, earn less- pay less'. Is 28 % of 1 million dollars more or less than 28 % of 100k dollars? I do not buy the 'they can afford it, so they should pay' argument. In Norway we do not have a deficit. We have an annual surplus of about 1 BILL dollars, and we're only 5 million people. I am far more sympathetic to the tax policies of left-wingers in the US considering you have a huge deficit to deal with. But I would still argue that mayhaps you should start with reducing your military costs by half before you start taxing everyone, but I do not live in your country; so I understand that my opinions regarding this are worth diddly-squat.

28% of 1 million dollars is more than 28% of 100k dollars. Are you saying you do not approve of taking 28% of 1 million dollars as you take of 100k dollars or what? Seems perfectly reasonable to me. And if the country needs more help, hell, take even MORE from 1 million dollars. No guilt on my chest.

Hi :)

I am in favour of a reasonable level of taxation. But it should be flat. It shouldn't be progressive. If the flat tax level was applied rigorously, the truly rich (the 1 %) would actually pay more (in Norway) than they do today due to the many loopholes that exist today. I am not against taxes (I am no Ron Paul fan), but I am against punishing those who make more than others just because they do. Everyone should pay the same rate and imho this is fair as, again, 28 % of a million is more than 28 % of 100k.

But I totally get that people have differing views, I just happen to disagree with most of them ;-)

Back to my anti-socialism comment: Norway has been ruled by socialists for 8 years now and it's mainly due to our huge oil- fortune that we are doing well. Also, politics is not just about 'don't rock the boat' policies. It's about principles and I disagree with almost all of the Norwegian socialists' platform; hence I call myself anti-socialist.

It's not a "punishment" on the wealthy for them to pay more... and they indeed would be paying more if everyone was taxed the same percent by income anyway, as you said.

It's silly to even be against them paying more % imo. It doesn't hurt anyone, while your rigid "flat tax" plan doesn't always work. What if the flat rate proposed isn't enough??? If they have to raise it, what if it's just TOO MUCH for people who don't make as much money to pay? Why not just tax more those making tons of money? I don't see what the big deal is or how it's a punishment. Poor, poor wealthy people? Nah.

[BarnOwl]

Off to my mother's to see what the fuck is wrong with her TV. God forbid she should miss any reality TV shows :roll:

Hundreds of channels, and still nothing but crap on TV. How did that happen? /first world problems

I'm glad I didn't upgrade my Uverse so that I could get the Planet Green channel. Foolishly, I thought there would be programs about recycling, green homes, renewable energy, gardening, climate change, etc., but instead the offerings seem to be A Haunting and American Hot Rods. WTF?

[Oneiros666]

Hello again :)

Well, the important thing to remember when discussing tax policy with Norwegians is that we currently have a total tax level of about 70 % of our income. In 'Mmerica I believe your have quite a lower total rate. Note: I include VAT and other levies in the total tax level. For example:

- In Norway gasoline are taxed at approximately 88 % (one litre of gas costs 5 bucks, i.e. one gallon costs about 21 bucks here).

This is a regressive tax; if you spend more of your income on petrol (e.g. if you are a low paid worker who commutes in a car) you get hit harder by this tax. I'm puzzled as to why this is a plank of your opposition to progressive tax?

- Alcohol is taxed at around 70 %. One bottle of middle-of-the-road red wine costs 28 bucks at the state monopoly alcohol outlet

Unless being rich affords you a few dozen extra livers, this is going to again hit the poor proportionally harder than the rich. Again regressive.

- All merchandise are taxed at 28 %. So, for example, a bottle of coke's gross price is maybe 1 dollar. But then you have to add 28 % VAT (1,28), then you have to add the sugar tax (no joke) making the price about 2 bucks. Then you have to add the CO2 tax, making the price about 2,3 bucks.

VAT normally has some lip service to being progressive (i.e. exemptions on essential items such as food) but it is basically flat (or arguably regressive, as rich people can often avoid it, or spend their money on things it doesn't apply to such as financial instruments)

- Income tax starts at 28 % (everyone have to pay this), then increases progressively up until 49 % (when you earn $132 000 and above). The exception is capital gains, which is always taxed at 28 %. So the truly rich only pay 28 % (this was introduced by our socialist PM in 1993).

You are now complaining that the progressive taxation in Norway is not progressive enough!

So you can understand us Norse dudes may (again, I assume) have a bit more gripe with the tax-issue than the average North-American.

But to your argument of 'earn more- pay more, earn less- pay less'. Is 28 % of 1 million dollars more or less than 28 % of 100k dollars? I do not buy the 'they can afford it, so they should pay' argument. In Norway we do not have a deficit. We have an annual surplus of about 1 BILL dollars, and we're only 5 million people. I am far more sympathetic to the tax policies of left-wingers in the US considering you have a huge deficit to deal with. But I would still argue that mayhaps you should start with reducing your military costs by half before you start taxing everyone, but I do not live in your country; so I understand that my opinions regarding this are worth diddly-squat.

I should've thought Norway is going to want to keep running a healthy surplus for when the North Sea oil runs out? My impression is that your government was far wiser investing that windfall than ours in the UK was.

I think I may have addressed your main point in my post above, but since you are cool and took the time to make a decent reply to me; I want to respond to you directly :)

I listed all of the levies and VAT not to claim these as progressive taxation. I know they're not. I did it to illustrate the total high tax level and for then to point out that I am against the progressive income taxation due to 1) the state has enough money as it is 2) it's unjust imho and 3) the state would arguable only get slightly less income from flat taxation than what it currently gets with it's progressive system that only targets the middle class.

I want Norway to have a healthy surplus, sure. But we don't have it thanks to progressive taxation. We have it thanks to huuuge profits from oil companies. I am not for gutting the huge capital fund (the Norwegian Pension Fund).