Periodic Table of Swearing

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Dick Strawkins
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Re: FTB - an experiment

#32371

Post by Dick Strawkins »

SPACKlick wrote:
Dick Strawkins wrote:Currently there are 36 bloggers on the FTB network.

Of those only three bloggers are qualified working scientists, Mano Singham (who isn't part of the social justice warrior militia), Comrade Physioprof (who seems to be a recipe obsessed lunatic who seems to use a lab monkey with a nervous twitch to write his posts for him) and, of course, Peezus.

There are four students - two psychology students (is that really a subject? - someone ask Rebecca) Kylie Sturgess and Miriam, the new blogger, and two biological science students, Jen McCreight and Crommunist (both of whom almost never write anything in depth about science.)

The rest, 29 out of 36, are non scientists.
AronRa is a biologist at the university of Texas isn't he?
Is he?
I haven't seen any information about his occupation before or on his current FTB site. I've always thought he makes his videos as an amateur evolution supporter.

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32372

Post by Scented Nectar »

Tony Parsehole wrote:Crommunist says:
What about in the case where there is no reasonable risk of transmission? Below some CD4 count, your risk of transmission is near-zero, so we’re asking people to subject themselves to the risk of potentially disastrous discrimination based on a near-zero probability of harm. The risk/benefit calculation seems off there.
You are a psychopath Crom. A complete, dyed-in-the-wool fucking psychopath.

A person runs the risk of "disastrous discrimination" for disclosing to a sexual partner that the have HIV? OH NO! PLEASE NO! NOT POTENTIAL DISCRIMINTION! That's worse than knowingly infecting people with a fatal virus fo sho.

And what about the fucking health and LIFE of the unsuspecting twatting partner you sick, ignorant fuck? Doesn't that matter as long as someone isn't being discriminated against?
They're murderous. That's how badly they don't get it. By 'it', I mean how not to harm others.

SPACKlick
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32373

Post by SPACKlick »

Just did a bit of Digging, I believe he's a post grad in paleontology at University of Texas. I also seem to remember him referring to UoT as his employer at some point. He's definitely a scientist of some stripe.

That said, he's not massively involved in the whole SJW BS, his wife has made some posts on it though.

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32374

Post by Scented Nectar »

Nice one, Crommurderous! I'm in the worst group if I ever were to catch AIDS, so thanks a fucking lot, you asshole. Just because you get off on legally killing ('converting' via ommission to inform, causing UNinformed consent which pretty much = no consent), people are at risk.

There are three genotypes that show what will happen if you get AIDS:
From http://www.23andme.com , where I got some of my genes looked at, they say:
http://www.23andme.com wrote:DD Resistant to infection by the most common strain of HIV people usually encounter, though protection is not complete.
DI Not resistant to HIV infection but may have slower progression to AIDS after infection.
II Not resistant to HIV infection; shows average time of progression to AIDS after infection.

Genes vs. Environment
The Delta32 version of CCR5 is inherited in a simple recessive manner. This means that someone must have two copies of Delta32 in order to have no CCR5 protein on their immune cells. Although people with two copies of Delta32 are highly resistant to the most common type of HIV, they can be vulnerable to strains of the virus that do not use CCR5 to enter immune cells. Time of progression to AIDS after infection with HIV is variable and depends on a number of factors. These factors include general immune system function, age, and exposure to other infectious diseases.
I'm II, the type most likely to die quickest from getting AIDS. So, from that extra susceptable viewpoint: Fuck you, Half-fish and Crommurderous. You murderous assholes would rather chance someone's life than take a chance that you'll get turned down for sex. What fine feminists you make!

On the brighter side of life, I can safely go on cruises. 23andme says that I'm resistant to the type of Norovirus they test for! :D

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32375

Post by Scented Nectar »

Barael wrote:In *cough*developed*cough* countries (with regards to healthcare) HIV infection isn't fatal. At all, really. Of all of the ways of intentionally killing people, having sex with a person while HIV infected is probably one of the less efficient imaginable. So yeah, not buying the premeditated/"1st degree" murder thing.
Seriously? As someone who would likely die within just a few years from it, even with the best medicine, due to my genetics, I think you're full of shit. You don't try pushing people off cliffs just because you know that you won't succeed with some of them, and therefore some of them won't die, do you? Either you're a sociopath, or you really know nothing about AIDS. I suspect the former, and I also suspect that anyone pro-not-informing is simply happy to have found a legal manner in which to kill people, with a touch of the gambling excitement of not knowing which will people will become infected or how bad. Efficient or not, it gives the murderous-minded a legal way to practice.

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32376

Post by Scented Nectar »

mordacious1 wrote:I was just over at RDF and I saw that they had to take down their new YouTube channel for copyright infringement filed by Upper Branch Productions, Inc. Some people tried to warn Richard that Timonen was a real prick, but I guess he didn't see it until too late. All those videos taken by Josh can't be shown, what a loss.
It was his old channel that got taken down ( http://www.youtube.com/user/richarddawkinsdotnet ). The wording in the article is incorrect.

His new channel is: http://www.youtube.com/user/RichardDawkinsYT

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32377

Post by Scented Nectar »

I'm finding that I'm not a fan of murder promoters. No matter whether it's a feminist separatist who promotes mutilating and killing off most/all men, or one of these 'ninga gift givers' trying on purpose to infect people with AIDS, they really fucking piss me off!

Dilurk
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32378

Post by Dilurk »

welch wrote:What happens when social justice warriors choose....poorly:

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conser ... 34390.html
Debunked

Sorry, but I am a sceptic. Still, I found it funny. I only wish it was true.

Dilurk
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32379

Post by Dilurk »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Barael wrote:In *cough*developed*cough* countries (with regards to healthcare) HIV infection isn't fatal. At all, really. Of all of the ways of intentionally killing people, having sex with a person while HIV infected is probably one of the less efficient imaginable. So yeah, not buying the premeditated/"1st degree" murder thing.
Seriously? As someone who would likely die within just a few years from it, even with the best medicine, due to my genetics, I think you're full of shit. You don't try pushing people off cliffs just because you know that you won't succeed
Maybe Abbie will have a cure in a few years too. But I do agree with you. It is still a disgusting thing to do.
with some of them, and therefore some of them won't die, do you? Either you're a sociopath, or you really know nothing about AIDS. I suspect the former, and I also suspect that anyone pro-not-informing is simply happy to have found a legal manner in which to kill people, with a touch of the gambling excitement of not knowing which will people will become infected or how bad. Efficient or not, it gives the murderous-minded a legal way to practice.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32380

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Scented Nectar wrote:I'm finding that I'm not a fan of murder promoters. No matter whether it's a feminist separatist who promotes mutilating and killing off most/all men, or one of these 'ninga gift givers' trying on purpose to infect people with AIDS, they really fucking piss me off!
I'm surprised it hasn't kicked off more but like I said before, Half Fish and Crommunist aren't famous enough and thankfully never will be. It would be a different story if a guest blogger wrote the piece for Pharyngula.

BarnOwl
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32381

Post by BarnOwl »

Re: the HIV infection porn posted several pages back - it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that much of it was written by straight Merkin Christian ultraconservatives who have a pathological fear of AIDS and teh gay. It suits their purposes - "See? Teh gayz want to be HIV+ and sick with AIDS, so they can avoid work and have sex all day and receive gummint benefits!!!"

One of my dad's former high school classmates is a prime candidate for such batshittery - he appeared at a reunion with blue skin, like a Smurf, from taking colloidal silver to prevent AIDS and herpeez infecshuns!!!

welch
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32382

Post by welch »

Dilurk wrote:
welch wrote:What happens when social justice warriors choose....poorly:

http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conser ... 34390.html
Debunked

Sorry, but I am a sceptic. Still, I found it funny. I only wish it was true.
I don't actually care about teh lulz. It's not making a claim that has any need to be tested or verified. It's funny. That's all.

welch
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32383

Post by welch »

The kind of women I like to hang out with:


Trophy
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32384

Post by Trophy »

RE: BarnOwl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugchasing

"Bugchasing is a slang term for the practice of pursuing sexual intercourse with HIV-infected individuals in order to contract HIV. Individuals engaged in this activity are referred to as bugchasers. It is a form of self-harm."

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32385

Post by Scented Nectar »

Dilurk wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Barael wrote:In *cough*developed*cough* countries (with regards to healthcare) HIV infection isn't fatal. At all, really. Of all of the ways of intentionally killing people, having sex with a person while HIV infected is probably one of the less efficient imaginable. So yeah, not buying the premeditated/"1st degree" murder thing.
Seriously? As someone who would likely die within just a few years from it, even with the best medicine, due to my genetics, I think you're full of shit. You don't try pushing people off cliffs just because you know that you won't succeed
Maybe Abbie will have a cure in a few years too. But I do agree with you. It is still a disgusting thing to do.
with some of them, and therefore some of them won't die, do you? Either you're a sociopath, or you really know nothing about AIDS. I suspect the former, and I also suspect that anyone pro-not-informing is simply happy to have found a legal manner in which to kill people, with a touch of the gambling excitement of not knowing which will people will become infected or how bad. Efficient or not, it gives the murderous-minded a legal way to practice.
Disgusting and outright murderous.

Jan Steen
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32386

Post by Jan Steen »

The inmates are running the asylum at FTB. It’s The System of Dr. Tarr and professor Fether all over again.

Interesting to see that Crommunist’s initial response to HaifischGeweint’s post was much like that of everyone here:
Well if we’re going to play that game, then I suppose I could just label your position as “it’s perfectly reasonable and justified to lie to sexual partners because if you told them the truth, they wouldn’t sleep with you”.
But a single rebuke by HG is enough to reduce Crommunist to a grovelling imbecile:
Maybe it is fair to expect people to ask their would-be sexual partners about their status, rather than just assuming that everyone is non-poz. My discomfiture is in the erosion of consent, but this seems like a specific enough circumstance.
FreefromThoughtBlogs has never been a more apt designation.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... /#comments

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32387

Post by Scented Nectar »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:I'm finding that I'm not a fan of murder promoters. No matter whether it's a feminist separatist who promotes mutilating and killing off most/all men, or one of these 'ninga gift givers' trying on purpose to infect people with AIDS, they really fucking piss me off!
I'm surprised it hasn't kicked off more but like I said before, Half Fish and Crommunist aren't famous enough and thankfully never will be. It would be a different story if a guest blogger wrote the piece for Pharyngula.
Famous or not, it's one of the worst things I've ever seen promoted by the SJW bloggers.

Ape+lust
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32388

Post by Ape+lust »

BarnOwl wrote:I'm surprised that ChasCPeterson hasn't been banned by PeeZus yet:
ChasCPeterson
5 December 2012 at 12:13 pm
Maybe Watson doesn’t have enough depth of understanding to appreciate the good work done in the whole of evolutionary psychology, and her condemnation was too sweeping.

Or, maybe Watson doesn’t have enough depth of understanding to grok the shit she’s ostensibly criticizing. Maybe she hasn’t even bothered to look at the primary literature and is relying instead on second- and third-order reportage, much of it biased and slanted. Maybe she’s just parroting received opinion gleaned from selective reading of only stuff she already wants to agree with. Maybe her motivations for singling out EP for criticism are far more political than they are scientific or skeptical. Maybe she really doesn’t know what she’s talking about, but is talking about it anyway, in a necessarily glib and substance-lite fashion. Everybody’s an expert on human behavior, eh?

These are all also possibilities.
Hahaahahaha! Rebecca probably doesn't even know where to find the primary literature, and even if she did, she's too lazy to bother pursuing it.
If you want to see where a good chunk of her speech came from, follow Ben Goldacre's sidebar link for articles tagged Evolutionary Psychology and click the top 3 articles that come up for stories on pink and blue preferences, conflicting studies on a woman's allure during ovulation, ovulating lapdancers, and Jessica Alba's sexy walk. The middle article has nothing to do with evo-psych, it just contains a link to one of the other EP articles, but it's in her speech (she doesn't claim it's EP, just ha-ha crummy crooked scientists).

She owes him a steak dinner.

http://www.badscience.net/category/evol ... sychology/

decius
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32389

Post by decius »

Trophy wrote:RE: BarnOwl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugchasing

"Bugchasing is a slang term for the practice of pursuing sexual intercourse with HIV-infected individuals in order to contract HIV. Individuals engaged in this activity are referred to as bugchasers. It is a form of self-harm."
Did you check the relevant Talk Page? The veracity of the claims is disputed.
Significant revision

I think, for obvious reasons, this article needs to be significantly revised. There is very little verifiable information that this actually occurs, other than a bunch of stuff people put on the internet (which Wikipedia does not accept as a verifiable source, especially on something of of a public health issue). It also seems to confuse barebacking, a highly risky sexual activity, with a desire to get HIV/AID's. Like the supposed phenomena of women sabotaging their birth-control methods to intentionally mislead men, this article has blown up a handful of instances into something far more widespread than it actually is. I'm going to go through the article and judiciously edit it down to actual verifiable facts. SiberioS (talk) 19:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

It is notable that in Maskowitz and Roloff, that the researchers indicate that there is a legitimate subculture on the internet, but to the extent that it actually practices what it claims is unknown. It makes the point of noting that bare backing subculture encourages, and generally requires, "Serosorting" ie: that negative men bareback with negative men and positive with positive. Of people who are self-conciously identified as "bugchasers" most are seemingly apathetic about it, simply expressing a preference to not know their partners sero-status, which is less an active search than a purely apathetic attitude towards whether one would get it. SiberioS (talk) 20:48, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
delete this plx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.101.33.94 (talk) 00:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
I don't know what the article is intending to link to, but in the links at the bottom there is one for Fluid Bonding that links to a page on Polymer Science, which is fairly off-topic! I will remove it, but don't knw what the origional poster intended to link to, as it is a term mentioned in the article.Philman132 (talk) 17:08, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Some of the sources used for evidence are suspect. The sentence about contracting HIV in order to qualify for Social Security disability benefits does not relate to the source. Also, a source would verify that automatically contracting HIV does not entitle someone to disability benefits. Rosebox (talk) 02:02, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

BarnOwl
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32390

Post by BarnOwl »

Trophy wrote:RE: BarnOwl:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugchasing

"Bugchasing is a slang term for the practice of pursuing sexual intercourse with HIV-infected individuals in order to contract HIV. Individuals engaged in this activity are referred to as bugchasers. It is a form of self-harm."
I don't deny that bug chasing exists - just that there's a possibility that some of those posts are not what they seem.

Trophy
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32391

Post by Trophy »

A little bit of playing with wikipedia led to this:

"In the Federal Republic of Germany on 16 August 2010, Nadja Benaissa of the German pop music group No Angels admitted to sex with several men while knowing [and hiding] her HIV-positive status, and infecting one of those several, who subsequently brought the case against her. She faced prison, but was instead given probation (2 years) and community service. Women groups were outraged at the possibility of a women been charged for men not using a condom."

real horrorshow
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Re: FTB - an experiment

#32392

Post by real horrorshow »

Dick Strawkins wrote: Of those only three bloggers are qualified working scientists, Mano Singham (who isn't part of the social justice warrior militia), Comrade Physioprof (who seems to be a recipe obsessed lunatic who seems to use a lab monkey with a nervous twitch to write his posts for him) and, of course, Peezus.

There are four students - two psychology students (is that really a subject? - someone ask Rebecca) Kylie Sturgess and Miriam, the new blogger, and two biological science students, Jen McCreight and Crommunist (both of whom almost never write anything in depth about science.)

The rest, 29 out of 36, are non scientists.

Is it any wonder there's such a lack of enthusiasm for scientific qualifications over there.
Consider also that those who are 'scientists' most are among the worst bloggers on the whole site. Having a science qualification and working in science cannot help you write about any topic if you are other wise intellectually bankrupt.

Trophy
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32393

Post by Trophy »

I know bugchasing is disputed but ultimately, it's not easy to document subcultures and find uncontroversial evidence of their existence. As far as I am concerned, since there are a lot of idiots out there, for me it's easily conceivable that bugchasing is real although probably much less common in real than on internet.

Dick Strawkins
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32394

Post by Dick Strawkins »

Breaking news!

The title of Rebecca Watson's upcoming talk at 'Skepticon 6' has been leaked!

"Developmental Biology.
Why Haeckel's Embryo's shows it's a load of crap...
...and boring!"

DW Adams
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32395

Post by DW Adams »


Tony Parsehole
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

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Post by Tony Parsehole »

Trophy wrote:. *snipped quotation* "Women groups were outraged at the possibility of a women been charged for men not using a condom."
It must have taken those women's groups some doing to miss the point so completely.

real horrorshow
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32397

Post by real horrorshow »

deLurch wrote:
decius wrote:I'm sorry, in which universe preferring STD-free partners constitutes discrimination?
In every universe it is discrimination. But it is neither an illegal nor immoral form of discrimination. It is quite sane. People seem to conflate discrimination with racism since the words are frequently paired.
Dictionary Atheist to the rescue:

discriminate verb /dɪˈskrɪm.ɪ.neɪt/
to be able to see the difference between two things or people.

If you can tell an apple from an orange, that's discrimination. If you can tell a black person from a white person, that's discrimination. If you treat one of those people differently from the other for no other reason than that difference, that's prejudice.

prejudice noun /ˈpredʒ.ʊ.dɪs/
an unfair and unreasonable opinion or feeling, especially when formed without enough thought or knowledge.

They are not the same thing. Semi-literate SJWs tend to conflate the two. Which is where you get nonsense like 'positive-discrimination', a meaningless term because discrimination, by itself, isn't negative.

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32398

Post by acathode »

Trophy wrote:A little bit of playing with wikipedia led to this:

"In the Federal Republic of Germany on 16 August 2010, Nadja Benaissa of the German pop music group No Angels admitted to sex with several men while knowing [and hiding] her HIV-positive status, and infecting one of those several, who subsequently brought the case against her. She faced prison, but was instead given probation (2 years) and community service. Women groups were outraged at the possibility of a women been charged for men not using a condom."
I decided the read her wiki-page, and found this article, and I was kinda shocked to read this:
AIDS groups have criticised the authorities' handling of the arrest and have warned against a rush to criminalise the transmission of HIV. "Based on the information that we have about the detention of Nadja Benaissa, we think she should be released," says Carolin Vierneisel, a spokeswoman for the AIDS organisation Deutsche AIDS-Hilfe. "When it comes to consensual sex, whether protected or unprotected, we talk about shared responsibility," she says. "The criminalisation of HIV transmission, as shown in this case, doesn't support HIV prevention efforts. On the contrary, it fosters the stigmatisation of HIV positive people."
I can understand the point that I've seen made before, that the criminalization isn't effective because it makes people stop testing themselves, I'm not sure I agree with it yet (need more knowledge, reliable data, studies, and all that to have an own opinion), but, it seems to me that this spokes-person is actually using the same kind of insane moral logic that Half Fish uses, about shared responsibility!

Are these ideas, that Half Fish voiced in his post, actually common within the HIV+ and AIDS groups?! It seems insane, but this Carolin seems to argue basically the same ideas?!

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32399

Post by Barael »

Scented Nectar wrote:
Barael wrote:In *cough*developed*cough* countries (with regards to healthcare) HIV infection isn't fatal. At all, really. Of all of the ways of intentionally killing people, having sex with a person while HIV infected is probably one of the less efficient imaginable. So yeah, not buying the premeditated/"1st degree" murder thing.
Seriously? As someone who would likely die within just a few years from it, even with the best medicine, due to my genetics, I think you're full of shit. You don't try pushing people off cliffs just because you know that you won't succeed with some of them, and therefore some of them won't die, do you? Either you're a sociopath, or you really know nothing about AIDS. I suspect the former, and I also suspect that anyone pro-not-informing is simply happy to have found a legal manner in which to kill people, with a touch of the gambling excitement of not knowing which will people will become infected or how bad. Efficient or not, it gives the murderous-minded a legal way to practice.
No, I did not know that genetics can make one vulnerable to HIV to a degree that it becomes 100% fatal but what I do know is that HIV can be, in the vast majority of cases, nowadays treated to a degree that it never develops into full-blown AIDS. Not informing your partner is still a shitty thing to do and nowhere did I advocate not pursuing criminal charges where a person is knowingly infected so try redirecting your outrage.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32400

Post by Tony Parsehole »

acathode wrote: I decided the read her wiki-page, and found this article, and I was kinda shocked to read this:
AIDS groups have criticised the authorities' handling of the arrest and have warned against a rush to criminalise the transmission of HIV. "Based on the information that we have about the detention of Nadja Benaissa, we think she should be released," says Carolin Vierneisel, a spokeswoman for the AIDS organisation Deutsche AIDS-Hilfe. "When it comes to consensual sex, whether protected or unprotected, we talk about shared responsibility," she says. "The criminalisation of HIV transmission, as shown in this case, doesn't support HIV prevention efforts. On the contrary, it fosters the stigmatisation of HIV positive people."
I can understand the point that I've seen made before, that the criminalization isn't effective because it makes people stop testing themselves, I'm not sure I agree with it yet (need more knowledge, reliable data, studies, and all that to have an own opinion), but, it seems to me that this spokes-person is actually using the same kind of insane moral logic that Half Fish uses, about shared responsibility!

Are these ideas, that Half Fish voiced in his post, actually common within the HIV+ and AIDS groups?! It seems insane, but this Carolin seems to argue basically the same ideas?!

It is indeed the same fucked up logic. Shared responsibility my FUCKING ARSE. If a person knows they have HIV and they have unprotected sex with somebody then they are a murderous cunt.
I see it like dropping peanuts into the food of a person with a peanut allergy and then defending the action by saying "hey, they never asked me if the meal contained peanuts!" whilst the person turns blue and dies.
This is lunacy. I'm glad governments haven't fallen for this bullshit. It's all well and good sufferers of HIV/AIDS trying to evade their responsibility but what would the reaction be of a non-sufferer who became infected through somebody's lie by omission? I doubt they would be so keen on "shared responsibility" then.

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32401

Post by Scented Nectar »

Barael wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Barael wrote:In *cough*developed*cough* countries (with regards to healthcare) HIV infection isn't fatal. At all, really. Of all of the ways of intentionally killing people, having sex with a person while HIV infected is probably one of the less efficient imaginable. So yeah, not buying the premeditated/"1st degree" murder thing.
Seriously? As someone who would likely die within just a few years from it, even with the best medicine, due to my genetics, I think you're full of shit. You don't try pushing people off cliffs just because you know that you won't succeed with some of them, and therefore some of them won't die, do you? Either you're a sociopath, or you really know nothing about AIDS. I suspect the former, and I also suspect that anyone pro-not-informing is simply happy to have found a legal manner in which to kill people, with a touch of the gambling excitement of not knowing which will people will become infected or how bad. Efficient or not, it gives the murderous-minded a legal way to practice.
No, I did not know that genetics can make one vulnerable to HIV to a degree that it becomes 100% fatal but what I do know is that HIV can be, in the vast majority of cases, nowadays treated to a degree that it never develops into full-blown AIDS. Not informing your partner is still a shitty thing to do and nowhere did I advocate not pursuing criminal charges where a person is knowingly infected so try redirecting your outrage.
Well, how about the uninforming infector paying for their victim's medication? At the very least. I think that if someone has something fatal, and infectious, they should inform all sex partners beforehand. INFORMED consent is very important. In this case, a matter of life or death (and yes, high med bills plus the toll the meds take on the body).

Cunning Punt
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32402

Post by Cunning Punt »

TheMan wrote:@cunning punt

one of the top ten funniest website on the internets...I did link to him in tiny letters.
Ii see it now. My eyes ain't what they used to be...

acathode
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32403

Post by acathode »

The "it's not a death sentence anymore"-defense is seriously lacking. Even if was 100% true (which I'm not buying), ok, if so it might not be outright murder, but there's still a host of other severe shit the victim will have to deal with.

Medication for the rest of his or her life, with all the economic downsides to it (varying severity depending on country, I'm guessing you're a bit screwed in the USA?), AND the various side effects that the medication comes with.

A great impact on the sex life for the victim, assuming the victim isn't going to be the same kind of narcissistic douche-bag that infected him or her but actually take responsibility for his or her condition.

Apparently, a huge great deal of really bad discrimination. At least accordingly to the people who are advocating for the freedom to "convert" others without their consent, because HIV really isn't such a bad thing to have these days... hey now, wait a minute... WTF?!

Cunning Punt
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32404

Post by Cunning Punt »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
Trophy wrote:You are too optimistic JLB. They are just idiots. They don't care about the arguments but who is issuing them. If halffish's post was written by a "sic" white dude, he would have been ripped apart. In their world, if you are a minority (or a woman) and whine about things being unfair to another minority, you will be respected regardless of the merits your argument.
In FTB world the only privilege is less privilege.
Can't wrap my head around this HIV shit. . One year on from the inanity of Elevatorgate and we have arguments that it's the fault of the "clear" sexual partner for contracting HIV because they didn't ask beforehand.

If a person with HIV is willing to unsuspectingly infect a partner for the sake of getting laid what on Earth makes Half Fish think that same person would honestly admit to having HIV anyway?
Imagine if just before sex you asked your new partner " BTW do you have HIV?" and they said "Funny you should ask but yes I do!"....... Just WTF?
And that's after a night of:
"Can I hug you? 'No" is an acceptable answer."
"Can I hold your hand? 'No" is an acceptable answer.".
"Can I kiss you? 'No" is an acceptable answer."
"Can I fuck you? 'No" is an acceptable answer." Leading to......

"Are you HIV positive? 'No" is an acceptable answer."

What a fun date that would be.

decius
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32405

Post by decius »

acathode wrote: Are these ideas, that Half Fish voiced in his post, actually common within the HIV+ and AIDS groups?! It seems insane, but this Carolin seems to argue basically the same ideas?!
Not entirely, for nowhere does she suggest that the onus is on the partner to ask. What she seems to suggest is that unprotected sex is inherently unsafe, and by engaging in it, both partners assume some risk, which is in tune with the message broadcast by her organisation.
However, it is unconscionable to suggest that there should be no legal consequences for the infected who are aware of their condition and conceal it from their partners.

ERV
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32406

Post by ERV »

Barael wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Barael wrote:In *cough*developed*cough* countries (with regards to healthcare) HIV infection isn't fatal. At all, really. Of all of the ways of intentionally killing people, having sex with a person while HIV infected is probably one of the less efficient imaginable. So yeah, not buying the premeditated/"1st degree" murder thing.
Seriously? As someone who would likely die within just a few years from it, even with the best medicine, due to my genetics, I think you're full of shit. You don't try pushing people off cliffs just because you know that you won't succeed with some of them, and therefore some of them won't die, do you? Either you're a sociopath, or you really know nothing about AIDS. I suspect the former, and I also suspect that anyone pro-not-informing is simply happy to have found a legal manner in which to kill people, with a touch of the gambling excitement of not knowing which will people will become infected or how bad. Efficient or not, it gives the murderous-minded a legal way to practice.
No, I did not know that genetics can make one vulnerable to HIV to a degree that it becomes 100% fatal but what I do know is that HIV can be, in the vast majority of cases, nowadays treated to a degree that it never develops into full-blown AIDS. Not informing your partner is still a shitty thing to do and nowhere did I advocate not pursuing criminal charges where a person is knowingly infected so try redirecting your outrage.
Whoawhoawhoa--

If you are homozygous delta32, you cannot be infected by the most prevalent forms of HIV-1, which require a protein called CCR5 to infect your cells, because delta32 people do not have CCR5. You could still get infected with a CXCR4 version of the virus, but those, while more aggressive, do not like to transmit as much as the CCR5, and again, are not as prevalent.

If you are heterozygous, there is *some* CCR5 hanging around, so you might be resistant, but you can still get infected with a CCR5 or CXCR4 version of the virus.

'Regular' folks who have a fully functional CCR5 are susceptible.

That is most of us.

That doesnt mean, necessarily, that you will die within a few years of becoming infected.

There is a *lot* of random chance involved with HIV-- What specific variant of HIV were you infected with? Does it respond to drugs? Does it stumble upon the 'right' mutations to be resistant to those drugs and be evolutionarily fit? Does your immune system stumble upon a broadly neutralizing antibody? Do your T-cells stumble upon a great killer cell? Do you happen to even have the right germ line cells to make those great Abs and CTLs?

There is so much randomness involved even people with supposedly 'protective' genotypes (the right MHC alleles, the right founder virus) can still progress, and people with the 'wrong' genotypes might not-- We can speak in probabilities, but even those are not in any way fully informed.

Scented-- I you are just in a 'normal' category, as in, you just arent in one of the special (but very small) 'protective, kinda, maybe' categories. There is no reason to think you would die sooner, or not respond to antiretrovirals outside of the normal stats (you might progress quickly, you might not, same gamble as all the other normies).

ERV
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32407

Post by ERV »

Regarding FfTBs not being a science-based network-- No, it is not. Because if that HIV 'piece' was posted on SciBlogs, it would have had a rebuttal up by me, Orac, Tara, Denalism blog, and possibly others by now. Im assuming no one at FfTBs gives a fuck.

Altair
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32408

Post by Altair »

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/869/sinttulout.png

Why does reality dare to oppose their preconceptions and ideas!
If something is related to social justice, it doesn't matter if it's true or not!
:doh:

Reality is just another tool of the patriarchal oppresion!

Scented Nectar
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32409

Post by Scented Nectar »

ERV wrote:Whoawhoawhoa--

If you are homozygous delta32, you cannot be infected by the most prevalent forms of HIV-1, which require a protein called CCR5 to infect your cells, because delta32 people do not have CCR5. You could still get infected with a CXCR4 version of the virus, but those, while more aggressive, do not like to transmit as much as the CCR5, and again, are not as prevalent.

If you are heterozygous, there is *some* CCR5 hanging around, so you might be resistant, but you can still get infected with a CCR5 or CXCR4 version of the virus.

'Regular' folks who have a fully functional CCR5 are susceptible.

That is most of us.

That doesnt mean, necessarily, that you will die within a few years of becoming infected.

There is a *lot* of random chance involved with HIV-- What specific variant of HIV were you infected with? Does it respond to drugs? Does it stumble upon the 'right' mutations to be resistant to those drugs and be evolutionarily fit? Does your immune system stumble upon a broadly neutralizing antibody? Do your T-cells stumble upon a great killer cell? Do you happen to even have the right germ line cells to make those great Abs and CTLs?

There is so much randomness involved even people with supposedly 'protective' genotypes (the right MHC alleles, the right founder virus) can still progress, and people with the 'wrong' genotypes might not-- We can speak in probabilities, but even those are not in any way fully informed.

Scented-- I you are just in a 'normal' category, as in, you just arent in one of the special (but very small) 'protective, kinda, maybe' categories. There is no reason to think you would die sooner, or not respond to antiretrovirals outside of the normal stats (you might progress quickly, you might not, same gamble as all the other normies).
Thanks for clearing that up. I mistakenly thought having 'II' as my result meant for sure having the shortest lifespan after infection. Either way though, prevention is better than getting it at all. Anything visiting me below my bellybutton must be wearing latex. 8-)

Rystefn
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32410

Post by Rystefn »

Mykeru wrote:Oh, now where were we? Oh yeah. Hey Rystefn, what make and model gun ya got?
I haven't used a mass-produced firearm since I got out of the army. I don't hunt and my particular brand of paranoia doesn't push me towards carrying or owning a gun for personal defense, so I don't have any particular use for one. My pistol is a .56cal flintlock muzzle-loader. Completely impractical, but I like it.

So, is this the part where you jump in and say something about how I'm compensating for something?

Altair
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32411

Post by Altair »

The A+ forums has a post about Haifisch's article: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3179

So far we have one disagreement and one agreement
kbonn wrote:
Interesting article.

Postby kbonn » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:04 pm
Has anyone read Crom's newest guest author's post?

There are some good points in the article, but I just can't wrap my head around the conclusion that is reached.

(Article is here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... tion-lite/)

I agree that there is discrimination against people with HIV+ or AIDS, but I don't see how it is ever ok to not inform your partner of any STD, nevermind one as serious as HIV. The author's defense is that "you didn't ask, and shouldn't have assumed." Though that might be more in the comments than the article itself.

The author seems to take particular issue with the law that if you don't disclose HIV+ status, then your partner couldn't have consented since they didn't know, therefore it is sexual assault.
I am not sure I agree with the exact manner it is handled under the law, but the author seems to be arguing that they shouldn't have to disclose HIV+ status to sexual partners.

Am I missing something here?
sisu wrote:
Re: Interesting article.

Postby sisu » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:09 pm
ugh. I have a really hard time with Haifisch's writing style so I couldn't make it all the way through the article. But the author is arguing against criminalizing nondisclosure of HIV status ("poz" in the author's terminology), right?

If that's the case (and that's what I got from a brief skim)... I have to say I agree with hir. (As always, writing from a US-based perspective.) Criminalizing those who doesn't disclose their poz status to their sexual partners sends those poz individuals to prison. Prisons in the US (and worldwide) have a higher incidence of HIV/AIDS than the general population, and fewer resources for individuals to protect themselves, such as condoms or clean works for IV drug users. (source) Criminalizing poz individuals for failing to disclose their status will only increase the incidence there.

The other problem is that the laws are often written broadly enough to capture those who aren't its intended targets. They're often written as "knowingly exposing someone to bodily fluids that could result in that person's infection with HIV" - that's not verbatim but an approximation of how I remember it (it's been a while since I looked at these laws), because they try to include people who, say, spit or throw their blood on cops. But then the net is broad enough that you could conceivably charge a poz mother who breastfeeds, since the virus has been found in breastmilk. These laws need to be written very, very carefully to avoid absurd and even harmful results

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32412

Post by Tony Parsehole »


Tony Parsehole
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32413

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Altair wrote:The A+ forums has a post about Haifisch's article: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3179

So far we have one disagreement and one agreement
kbonn wrote:
Interesting article.

Postby kbonn » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:04 pm
Has anyone read Crom's newest guest author's post?

There are some good points in the article, but I just can't wrap my head around the conclusion that is reached.

(Article is here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/crommunist/ ... tion-lite/)

I agree that there is discrimination against people with HIV+ or AIDS, but I don't see how it is ever ok to not inform your partner of any STD, nevermind one as serious as HIV. The author's defense is that "you didn't ask, and shouldn't have assumed." Though that might be more in the comments than the article itself.

The author seems to take particular issue with the law that if you don't disclose HIV+ status, then your partner couldn't have consented since they didn't know, therefore it is sexual assault.
I am not sure I agree with the exact manner it is handled under the law, but the author seems to be arguing that they shouldn't have to disclose HIV+ status to sexual partners.

Am I missing something here?
sisu wrote:
Re: Interesting article.

Postby sisu » Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:09 pm
ugh. I have a really hard time with Haifisch's writing style so I couldn't make it all the way through the article. But the author is arguing against criminalizing nondisclosure of HIV status ("poz" in the author's terminology), right?

If that's the case (and that's what I got from a brief skim)... I have to say I agree with hir. (As always, writing from a US-based perspective.) Criminalizing those who doesn't disclose their poz status to their sexual partners sends those poz individuals to prison. Prisons in the US (and worldwide) have a higher incidence of HIV/AIDS than the general population, and fewer resources for individuals to protect themselves, such as condoms or clean works for IV drug users. (source) Criminalizing poz individuals for failing to disclose their status will only increase the incidence there.

The other problem is that the laws are often written broadly enough to capture those who aren't its intended targets. They're often written as "knowingly exposing someone to bodily fluids that could result in that person's infection with HIV" - that's not verbatim but an approximation of how I remember it (it's been a while since I looked at these laws), because they try to include people who, say, spit or throw their blood on cops. But then the net is broad enough that you could conceivably charge a poz mother who breastfeeds, since the virus has been found in breastmilk. These laws need to be written very, very carefully to avoid absurd and even harmful results
An amazing leap of logic in the second comment there. If you criminalise the intentional spread of HIV the sufferer will go to prison, probably have sex (consensual or not) and spread the disease even more so it's best to just let them get on with ruining peoples lives and killing people outside of prisons rather than, I dunno, make it clear to the prison which people have the disease and let them take accurate measures to prevent it's spread.

Altair
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32414

Post by Altair »

Great picture :lol:, the expression of the guy on the right is perfect!

BoxNDox
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32415

Post by BoxNDox »

rayshul wrote: But like... who the fuck doesn't do that? If I am sick I immediately inform people around me that I'm ill. I don't shake hands if I think I have a cold. And I definitely fucking stay home if I think it's anything worse. Holy fucking shit! There is someone in one of our offices who has a lowered immune system and I'm sure there are plenty of other people around the place who do too. It's common courtesy!
Those of us who are immune suppressed thank you for that.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32416

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Altair wrote:
Great picture :lol:, the expression of the guy on the right is perfect!
Cheers! Make your own here:
http://bayeux.datensalat.net/

acathode
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32417

Post by acathode »

decius wrote:
acathode wrote: Are these ideas, that Half Fish voiced in his post, actually common within the HIV+ and AIDS groups?! It seems insane, but this Carolin seems to argue basically the same ideas?!
Not entirely, for nowhere does she suggest that the onus is on the partner to ask. What she seems to suggest is that unprotected sex is inherently unsafe, and by engaging in it, both partners assume some risk, which is in tune with the message broadcast by her organisation.
However, it is unconscionable to suggest that there should be no legal consequences for the infected who are aware of their condition and conceal it from their partners.
But she (and her org?) seems to be arguing that Nadja Benaissa shouldn't be punished, even though Benaissa, knowing she had HIV, had unprotected sex with three persons, out of which one of them became infected, without informing them of her condition. In the very next sentence, Carolina brings up shared responsibility, in what I'm reading as a argument for why Benaissa shouldn't be punished?
This seems to be pretty much, at the core, the same moral logic that Half Fish is advocating in her article?

Sure, Carolina doesn't specifically mention that the uninfected person has to ask, but wouldn't that (or the use of protection), be the two main implications for the uninfected, if they were to "share the responsibility"?

Al Stefanelli
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Re: FTB - an experiment

#32418

Post by Al Stefanelli »

Dick Strawkins wrote:I've been pondering on a particular question that's been bugging me for a while about Freethoughtblogs.
They began the network as a breakaway from scienceblogs after National Geographic bought that particular network, and because of this I always considered them to be something similar - a scienceblogging network, just one with a left-wing political stance.
It's an easy assumption to make - after all there are many skeptic blogs written by scientists
- and FTB is pretty much the same sort of thing, isn't it?

Well, is it?

There is one way to answer this. Check how many of the Freethought blog authors are actually working scientists.
So I went through their list and here's the result.

Currently there are 36 bloggers on the FTB network.

Of those only three bloggers are qualified working scientists, Mano Singham (who isn't part of the social justice warrior militia), Comrade Physioprof (who seems to be a recipe obsessed lunatic who seems to use a lab monkey with a nervous twitch to write his posts for him) and, of course, Peezus.

There are four students - two psychology students (is that really a subject? - someone ask Rebecca) Kylie Sturgess and Miriam, the new blogger, and two biological science students, Jen McCreight and Crommunist (both of whom almost never write anything in depth about science.)

The rest, 29 out of 36, are non scientists.

Is it any wonder there's such a lack of enthusiasm for scientific qualifications over there.
FWIW, I've a degree in Computer Science, so 'technically' (see what I did there?) I'm a scientist. However, most people do not associate the word 'scientist' with computer theory, so as to avoid confusion I rarely refer to myself as one. In fact, the only place I can think of where I use it is my Twitter describer thingy, and only as a hashtag.

Of course, I'm no longer there, so the point is moot.

FWIW, FtB was not started as an offshoot of The Science Blogs, in spite of Ed and Paul being the founders. It was started as a network of prominent and well known bloggers who were regular writers, atheists or secularists, with a bent on left of center politics, supportive of social justice issues and the promotion of science as the primary means of discovery and insight.

Out of the original group of about ten or so, only two or three were scientists from the start. I know a lot of people here have issues with Ed Brayton, but he's actually a pretty decent guy, and FtB was pretty much his concept. I would hazard a guess that where FtB is now is far from where he intended it to be when he hatched the idea.

I really don't reason that he's overly thrilled about the controversies that keep miring a majority of the writers on the network who have no connection at all to the batshittery that keeps bubbling up there. There are some really, really good writers such as Mano, Myriam, BioDork, NSC, Aron, Taslima, etc.

Anyhow, just thought I'd throw in my two cents... Your mileage may vary...

real horrorshow
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32419

Post by real horrorshow »

Altair wrote:http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/869/sinttulout.png

Why does reality dare to oppose their preconceptions and ideas!
If something is related to social justice, it doesn't matter if it's true or not!
:doh:

Reality is just another tool of the patriarchal oppresion!
Sure it is. Do you think you're being ironic with that statement? If so, matters may be even worse than you think. A good deal of the SJW's up-is-down, black-is-white thinking originates in Post Modernist blather.
In essence, postmodernism is based on the position that reality is not mirrored in human understanding of it, but is rather constructed as the mind tries to understand its own personal reality. Postmodernism is therefore skeptical of explanations that claim to be valid for all groups, cultures, traditions, or races, and instead focuses on the relative truths of each person (i.e. postmodernism = relativism). In the postmodern understanding, interpretation is everything; reality only comes into being through our interpretations of what the world means to us individually.
'So yeah, fuck your patriarchal [airquotes]science[/airquotes]* duuude. Don't try and impose your interpretation on my reality.'

*Don't you just want to reach out and snap those fingers?

Altair
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32420

Post by Altair »

real horrorshow wrote: Sure it is. Do you think you're being ironic with that statement?
Indeed I thought so, I didn't know Post Modernism even existed
real horrorshow wrote: If so, matters may be even worse than you think. A good deal of the SJW's up-is-down, black-is-white thinking originates in Post Modernist blather.
In essence, postmodernism is based on the position that reality is not mirrored in human understanding of it, but is rather constructed as the mind tries to understand its own personal reality. Postmodernism is therefore skeptical of explanations that claim to be valid for all groups, cultures, traditions, or races, and instead focuses on the relative truths of each person (i.e. postmodernism = relativism). In the postmodern understanding, interpretation is everything; reality only comes into being through our interpretations of what the world means to us individually.
'So yeah, fuck your patriarchal [airquotes]science[/airquotes]* duuude. Don't try and impose your interpretation on my reality.'

*Don't you just want to reach out and snap those fingers?
I would like to see those guys stand in the middle of a street, and try to interpret away the incoming cars

Al Stefanelli
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32421

Post by Al Stefanelli »

real horrorshow wrote:*Don't you just want to reach out and snap those fingers?
[youtube]51wVDicIm5s[/youtube]

AnimalAndy
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32422

Post by AnimalAndy »

Wow. This whole HIV story is so mind-boggling surreal. I am waiting for HG to come out with: "Ta-dah! Trolled all of you!"

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32423

Post by JayTeeAitch »

Tony Parsehole wrote:An amazing leap of logic in the second comment there. If you criminalise the intentional spread of HIV the sufferer will go to prison, probably have sex (consensual or not) and spread the disease even more so it's best to just let them get on with ruining peoples lives and killing people outside of prisons rather than, I dunno, make it clear to the prison which people have the disease and let them take accurate measures to prevent it's spread.
Judge: The defendant will rise
Judge: You've been found guilty of the brutal rape and murder of Ms Peters. You are sentenced to life with a minimum term of 30 years.
Defendants lawyer: Ah, but he's got AIDS!
Judge: Good or bad?
Defendants lawyer: Bad, m'lud.
Judge: Egads! Release him immediately.

Tigzy
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32424

Post by Tigzy »

Ape+lust wrote:
Hahaahahaha! Rebecca probably doesn't even know where to find the primary literature, and even if she did, she's too lazy to bother pursuing it.
If you want to see where a good chunk of her speech came from, follow Ben Goldacre's sidebar link for articles tagged Evolutionary Psychology and click the top 3 articles that come up for stories on pink and blue preferences, conflicting studies on a woman's allure during ovulation, ovulating lapdancers, and Jessica Alba's sexy walk. The middle article has nothing to do with evo-psych, it just contains a link to one of the other EP articles, but it's in her speech (she doesn't claim it's EP, just ha-ha crummy crooked scientists).

She owes him a steak dinner.

http://www.badscience.net/category/evol ... sychology/
Interesting. Pity there's not, as yet, a transcript available of Becky's talk (I can't stomach her enough to watch the video for any length of time), as I'm very curious as to how much of Becky's speech might match up with Goldacre's articles.

Altair
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32425

Post by Altair »

Nicholas Covington at Skeptic Ink published an article about Rebecca Vs. EP
http://skepticink.com/humesapprentice/2 ... feminists/

He offers this speculation on RW's reason to dislike EP
Why does she attack it?

My speculation: She’s offended by the idea that there are innate differences between male and female brains. Self-proclaimed feminists are committed to the belief that men and women are equal (that’s what feminism is, according to most of its adherents). That belief is uncontroversial and obviously correct; I don’t dispute it. However, I get the feeling that some feminists equate this belief (equality of the sexes) with the belief that men and women are fundamentally the same (as in: they have no brain differences). The view that men and women are basically the same and the differences are created by culture is a valid possibility, I think, but so is the alternative: that there are real, genetically-based differences between the sexes that affect the mind.
I agree completely with this speculation, and also with the rest of his article where he states that discovering that there are biological differences between men and women is not a reason to treat anyone unfairly.

The belief that there aren't any differences between men and women seem to be an important tenet of modern feminist theory, although I'm not sure why it is. No two people are the same, even when they belong to the same gender, and if anyone is being denied a position or job because they cannot physically (or biologically) perform it, then it wouldn't be discrimination, IMO.

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32426

Post by Reap »

Here's a nice podcast for you
note: some parts ain't all that nice
http://www.reapsowradio.com/graphics/logicslayer.jpg

lost control
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32427

Post by lost control »

Reap wrote:
CommanderTuvok wrote:New Game: What message should DJ Grothe have on his shirt when he has that lunch function with Queen Bee???

so many choices .....
<image snipped>

For the record- We found that mannequin in the dumpster and saved her life so...yea
Ah, I always wanted to get my hands on one or more mannequins instead of having a wardrobe or something similar. Sadly, haven't gotten my hands on one yet.

Hilarious pic. And I was hevaily chuckling about the one before from ape lust.

Ape+lust
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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32428

Post by Ape+lust »

Altair wrote:Indeed I thought so, I didn't know Post Modernism even existed
A PoMo imperative is using obscurantist jargon. The more baroque, the more impenetrable, the better. If you follow this link:

http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/

to the Postmodernism Generator, you'll see something reeeally familiar. Refresh the page for fresh dumps of PoMo gibberish.

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32429

Post by Ape+lust »

Tigzy wrote:Interesting. Pity there's not, as yet, a transcript available of Becky's talk (I can't stomach her enough to watch the video for any length of time), as I'm very curious as to how much of Becky's speech might match up with Goldacre's articles.
I don't really want to re-watch her either. She mentioned Goldacre in the Jessica Alba bit (she had to, he was part of the story, as well as the reporter), so I checked out his article. Saw the sidebar link and hey -- there's the pink/blue story, and the ovulating women repel/attract story, and the lapdancers. She didn't crib, not much that I remember anyway, she just got a lot of her stuff in one place.

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Re: Periodic Table of Swearing

#32430

Post by Dilurk »

Altair wrote:Nicholas Covington at Skeptic Ink published an article about Rebecca Vs. EP
http://skepticink.com/humesapprentice/2 ... feminists/

He offers this speculation on RW's reason to dislike EP
Why does she attack it?

My speculation: She’s offended by the idea that there are innate differences between male and female brains. Self-proclaimed feminists are committed to the belief that men and women are equal (that’s what feminism is, according to most of its adherents). That belief is uncontroversial and obviously correct; I don’t dispute it. However, I get the feeling
I said as much some pages back. This view was seemingly confirmed by Dr. Money and happily accepted by some feminists. This was the beginning of the great "trans" hunt when former allies of the Lesbian/Gay movement were pushed out. (Sylvia Riveria for one).
that some feminists equate this belief (equality of the sexes) with the belief that men and women are fundamentally the same (as in: they have no brain differences). The view that men and women are basically the same and the differences are created by culture is a valid possibility, I think, but so is the alternative: that there are real, genetically-based differences between the sexes that affect the mind.
The evidence is pointing towards a large overlap in the brains of women and men. There is absolutely no basis for talking about "Men are from Mars" vs. "Women are from Venus" as the nonsense bad science of (some) "brain sex". Men and women's brains are both quite capable of doing Science. There seems to be some evidence of brain differences in other areas of the brain wrt gender identity and sexuality. But that's about it.

I agree completely with this speculation, and also with the rest of his article where he states that discovering that there are biological differences between men and women is not a reason to treat anyone unfairly.

The belief that there aren't any differences between men and women seem to be an important tenet of modern feminist theory, although I'm not sure why it is. No two people are the same, even when they belong to the same gender, and if anyone is being denied a position or job because they cannot physically (or biologically) perform it, then it wouldn't be discrimination, IMO.
Well, the John/Joan case seems to indicate that some of gender is indeed innate. David Reimer was not the only case of this mistaken treatment based upon Dr. Money's seeming confirmation of the "gender as a social construct" hypothesis, many infant boys were subject to the knife and raised as girls. The standard treatment for hypospadias was castration, hormonal treatment, and construction of an artificial vulva as they aged; if the penis was considered too small. Oddly enough, the incidence of lesbian behaviour is rather high in this group.

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