Steerzing in a New Direction...

[Service Dog]

https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inli ... 2%29_3.png

[Steersman]

A rather hard to read article at Medical Net.

I could see if there's a translation into machine code for ya.

:) Good one ... ;)

But somewhat en passant, you might try quoting passages from the various links you're posting. Often seems that they don't really support what you're apparently inferring they do.

[Steersman]

"CDC Director Makes Case Vaccination Passports are Futile, Vaccines Do Not Prevent COVID Infection or Delta Variant Transmission

August 6, 2021 | Sundance | 807 Comments

"The Director of the CDC made an important admission during an interview today on CNN. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky stated the vaccine does not prevent COVID-19 infection, nor does it stop the vaccinated person from transmitting the infection or the delta variant. According to Director Walensky, the only benefit from the vaccine now is presumably that it reduces the severity of symptoms.

If a vaccinated and non-vaccinated person have the same capacity to carry, shed and transmit the virus – with or without symptoms – then what difference does a vaccination passport or vaccination ID make?

<snip>

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/bl ... nsmission/

I see that a commentator there posted this:

Read this transcript of Dr. Judy Mikovits interview with Mike Adams. This is where people can build the foundation of how this was all started under the direction of Anthony Fauci in conjunction with the CCP Level 4 facility in Wuhan, China…

Dr. Judy Mikovits 8:52 minutes: “That is the disease causing agent that the envelope alone causes the disease, and we’ve known this since 1980, that was the work of my long time colleague Frank Frazetti’s wife. ....

But Wikipedia - among it's 6 million-odd articles - notes that Mikovits has had less than a stellar career:

Judy Anne Mikovits (born 1957 or 1958) is an American former research scientist who is known for her discredited medical claims, such as that murine endogenous retroviruses are linked to chronic fatigue syndrome. As an outgrowth of these claims, she has engaged in anti-vaccination activism, promoted conspiracy theories, and been accused of scientific misconduct. She has made false claims about vaccines, COVID-19, and chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), among others.

As research director of CFS research organization Whittemore Peterson Institute (WPI) from 2006 to 2011, Mikovits led an effort that reported in 2009 that a retrovirus known as xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus (XMRV) was associated with CFS and might have a causal role. However, following widespread criticism, the paper was retracted on December 22, 2011, by the journal Science. In November 2011, she was arrested and held on charges that she stole laboratory notebooks and a computer from WPI, but she was released after five days and the charges were later dropped. ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judy_Mikovits

S.I.F.T. ... ;)

But this is somewhat more problematic:

IF a vaccinated and non-vaccinated person have the same capacity to carry, shed and transmit the virus – with or without symptoms – then what difference does a vaccination passport or vaccination ID make? ....

That's a pretty big "if", and one not much supported by "conventional wisdom" that is strongly supported and quite common; from the Immunize BC website:

Question:
Is “shedding” a concern? Can you shed the COVID-19 virus if you get vaccinated?

Answer:
Some people wonder whether they can shed the virus as a result of vaccination. In the case of the COVID-19 vaccines, the answer is no.

Viral shedding happens when a person is infected with a virus and whole viral particles made during the infection are transmitted in the person’s secretions. For viruses that infect the respiratory tract, these particles are often found in secretions from the nose and mouth, such as saliva (spit) or mucus (phlegm).

None of the COVID-19 vaccines used in Canada contain a live virus with the ability to reproduce itself. The mRNA vaccines and adenovirus based vaccines only introduce a single protein from the virus that causes COVID-19 – the spike protein. Whole viral particles are never produced during vaccine processing so there is no virus to be shed. People are not considered to be infected when they are vaccinated because the virus does not replicate in them. Also, the vaccines are processed near the site of injection, so the spike protein produced during processing would not be found in nasal or oral secretions. So, they cannot “shed” the single protein either.

https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/ ... vaccinated

People vaccinated, particularly with the mRNA vaccines, generally don't have any "viral particles" to shed unless they've been exposed to the virus. And if they have then the "viral load" is likely to be much lower for them as a result of the vaccination - why they tend to get less sick if they are exposed - and will be less likely to pass those on to the unvaccinated.

Some 181,000 Google links, many of which seem to endorse and support that view:

https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+s ... e&ie=UTF-8

Kinda think you're grabbing at straws; peddling "dangerous misinformation" ... ;)

[zou3gou3]

Read this transcript of Dr. Judy Mikovits interview with Mike Adams.

Mike Adams aka The Health Ranger, purveyor of snake oil.
You may remember that Abbie Smith was the one who published the evidence that Mikovits had faked the evidence for XMRV causing chronic fatigue.

Apparently, one of the side effects of NOT getting the vaccine will be a .38 to the brain from the shaky hand of some creepy old pediatrician.

I thought 9mm was the calibre of choice.

[Steersman]

Read this transcript of Dr. Judy Mikovits interview with Mike Adams.

Mike Adams aka The Health Ranger, purveyor of snake oil.
You may remember that Abbie Smith was the one who published the evidence that Mikovits had faked the evidence for XMRV causing chronic fatigue.

Hadn't remembered the Mikovits name but XMRV and Abbie rang a bell; talk about a blast from the past - 2012 :)

https://scienceblogs.com/erv/2012/05/01 ... ic-erv-aga

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/a ... s_not_good

https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... y_Mikovits

[Service Dog]

Welcome back, zou3gou3 !

I'd like to your German opinion on this: https://slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... 00#p504341

The vaccine companies interrupted their own blind clinical trials. Which (on one hand) gave the members of the Control Group the benefits of the treatment. (That's assuming the treatment has net benefits-- which was the thing being tested!). On the other hand: dissolving the control group also dissolved valuable data about the virus and the treatments. So now the researchers are considering using poor third world non-whites as test subjects to replicate the same trials-- which they deemed unethical to perform in First Would countries.

What do you think? Are the trial-test-subject-recruitment-methods of Dr. Josef Mengele acceptable, if the test subjects are sufficiently-pathetic and the goal is to fight SARS CoV-2 ?

[John D]

"CDC Director Makes Case Vaccination Passports are Futile, Vaccines Do Not Prevent COVID Infection or Delta Variant Transmission

August 6, 2021 | Sundance | 807 Comments

"The Director of the CDC made an important admission during an interview today on CNN. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky stated the vaccine does not prevent COVID-19 infection, nor does it stop the vaccinated person from transmitting the infection or the delta variant. According to Director Walensky, the only benefit from the vaccine now is presumably that it reduces the severity of symptoms.

Walensky is a complete piece of shit. She changes her story every day. She chronically lies. Her lies don't help even though she thinks they do. If I could do it and not get in trouble for it.... I would slap the shit out of her (well... really... I just think they should give her the boot and fire her).

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

"CDC Director Makes Case Vaccination Passports are Futile, Vaccines Do Not Prevent COVID Infection or Delta Variant Transmission

August 6, 2021 | Sundance | 807 Comments

"The Director of the CDC made an important admission during an interview today on CNN. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky stated the vaccine does not prevent COVID-19 infection, nor does it stop the vaccinated person from transmitting the infection or the delta variant. According to Director Walensky, the only benefit from the vaccine now is presumably that it reduces the severity of symptoms.

Walensky is a complete piece of shit. She changes her story every day. She chronically lies. Her lies don't help even though she thinks they do. If I could do it and not get in trouble for it.... I would slap the shit out of her (well... really... I just think they should give her the boot and fire her).

There are other explanations for her performance. How politically savvy is she? Is she a clinician/researcher out of her depth in a political role? Is she being advised on the necessity of expedience by handlers?

[Bhurzum]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8RUGlcXIAE ... me=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPDNw9OU8AUwZKo.jpg

[Service Dog]

"produces ova" is a "necessary and sufficient condition" to qualify as both female and woman.

The idea that a woman temporarily ceases to be a woman for the duration of her pregnancy is a hard to sell to someone who has or had the ability to become pregnant.

If you wish any of those masses of conflicting impulses to agree with you, I think you may have to adjust your definition somewhat.

'birthing persons'

https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/06/14/ ... of-mother/

[Service Dog]

[Service Dog]

My County health officials: enforce mask mandates with coercion, peer pressure, denial of services, and maybe a bullet to the head -- well not that one just yet ha ha.

Apart from the allusion to 'swift justice' from the barrel of a gun-- for those not wearing a mask-- (at the 14 minute mark)-- I found this video to be a clearer expression of one-side of the debate... than many other public officials. Biden & Harris only offer "It's simple!" proclamations. CDC Director Walensky speaks in shapeless run-on sentences. And her claims do not match these officials' claims.

The relatively-candid Nevada County officials-- make all-sorts of clearly-stated claims. At least they give us something coherent to refute. (Except the YouTube Comments are turned-off).

One thing which raised my eyebrows-- was the explanation at 25min19sec-- regarding why Delta Variant isn't killing people: "...we've discovered that using Steroids helps."

The fight to have Steroids accepted for treatment-- was an uphill battle, conducted by the likes ER doctors-- namely Dr. Kory, who now fights the uphill battle for Ivermectin.

This is like Napoleon & Snowball-- the pigs taking credit for all the work Boxer the horse did-- as they worked him to death & sold his remains to the glue factory.

These officials claim that the current paucity of Delta variant deaths in Nevada County is due to the gap between detection & death "2 or 3 weeks later". That seems like a testable claim. I wonder if they'll revisit their prediction in their next every-two-weeks call, and the call after-that?

[MarcusAu]

He (?) couldn't use the "nomale" boys bathroom ?

I wonder what category of person these facilities have been reserved for.


The provisions made for Trans get more and more confusing as times go on...

[Steersman]

"CDC Director Makes Case Vaccination Passports are Futile, Vaccines Do Not Prevent COVID Infection or Delta Variant Transmission

August 6, 2021 | Sundance | 807 Comments

"The Director of the CDC made an important admission during an interview today on CNN. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky stated the vaccine does not prevent COVID-19 infection, nor does it stop the vaccinated person from transmitting the infection or the delta variant. According to Director Walensky, the only benefit from the vaccine now is presumably that it reduces the severity of symptoms.

Walensky is a complete piece of shit. She changes her story every day. She chronically lies. Her lies don't help even though she thinks they do. If I could do it and not get in trouble for it.... I would slap the shit out of her (well... really... I just think they should give her the boot and fire her).

A political appointee? Not having a clue at all about any of the biology involved? Though the CDC themselves have been rather "spotty" - for one example of many, first that masks didn't "work" then they did then two is better than one and now back to one.

Though "works" is something of a moving target - interesting article in, of all places, Forbes from a year ago that suggests some limitations on that term:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... 49c345f3c2

Leakage around the sides is going produce something in the way of a minimum degree of effectiveness in dispersal, regardless of the number of layers in the mask material. I figure there should be a fairly simple engineering model that summarizes and illustrates that minimum ... ;)

But even apart from some thorny ethical aspects to testing vaccines, there's also the fact that it's something of a crap-shoot. Even the CDC commendably acknowledges that fact - though maybe less so of late; for example:

In 1955, some batches of polio vaccine given to the public contained live polio virus, even though they had passed required safety testing. Over 250 cases of polio were attributed to vaccines produced by one company: Cutter Laboratories. This case, which came to be known as the Cutter Incident, resulted in many cases of paralysis. The vaccine was recalled as soon as cases of polio were detected.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/conce ... story.html

And seem to recollect a recent case in, I think, France where testing some vaccines or drugs put some of the volunteers into comas or vegetative states.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

(Except the YouTube Comments are turned-off).

That's the luxembourgish 'Pat' moderating the thing. She wields an even mighter banhammer than the Peez. She's also just a private illegal alien citizen, and has no business moderating these official county updates, or in deciding which questions from the public get passed on. It's in violation of CA law, and I'm looking into how I can bust them for it.

These officials claim that the current paucity of Delta variant deaths in Nevada County is due to the gap between detection & death "2 or 3 weeks later". That seems like a testable claim. I wonder if they'll revisit their prediction in their next every-two-weeks call, and the call after-that?

They've been crying wolf for a year and a half. 100K residents, 75 deaths, half of those over age 80, none since January. But thanks for spotting that -- I'll call them out in 2 or 3 weeks.

But it really doesn't matter. All pandemic long, dire predictions have not come true, only to have the Branch Covidians wipe their memory, reboot, and panic over the next apocalyptic prediction. Harold Camping had more skeptical followers.

[Steersman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8RUGlcXIAE ... me=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DPDNw9OU8AUwZKo.jpg

What? You denying that "trans boys are boys"? Trying to "invalidate the existence" of them? To "dehumanize them"? Tsk, tsk ... ;)

A rather ubiquitous and particularly demented accusation:

Quillette_WordsLoseMeaning1A.jpg

(186.12 KiB) Downloaded 187 times

But that's just one of the more pernicious and mephitic "flowers" of gender ideology. While there is some justification for the idea of sex and gender being quite distinct categories - entirely different kettles of fish, to coin a phrase ... ;) - it is rather problematic that far too many are conflating those two categories. An interesting and useful letter to the British Medical Journal emphasizes the point, even if they are somewhat vague on the specifics:

BMJ_BritishMedicalJournal_SexAndGender1A.jpg

(163.3 KiB) Downloaded 186 times

However, not to flog a dead horse ..., a large part of the problem is that far too many people are reluctant to deal with the only reasonably coherent and useful definition for "woman" - which Posie Parker commendably emphasized, lo these many moons ago - and with the biological definitions for the sexes themselves:

TalkRadio_PosieParker_Definition_Woman1A.jpg

(196.38 KiB) Downloaded 186 times

[Service Dog]

I am not usually a fan of Sam Harris. I know him well and have read his books. He doesn't really understand many topics, so his political commentary is useless. He suffers TDS in a big way. But... he and his guest kick Weinsteins ass in this podcast. IMHO. I have listened to most of Bret's podcasts, so I am not speaking from ignorance here. In the last few months I have found that I am more distracted by Bret than educated by him.

https://samharris.org/podcasts/256-contagion-bad-ideas/

Ok, I'll bite.

I'm entering into this-- having listened to 53 minutes of Bret W & Heather's off-the-cuff response to Sam Harris.

I hit 'pause' on the rebuttal-- and am switching to hearing Harris himself... because I just heard Bret's paraphrase of something Sam Harris (apparently) said:

Unable to account-for why intelligent, educated, informed people would arrive at conclusions-- about Covid and The Jabs-- which differ from Harris's opinion...

...Harris resorts to citing the rate of schizophrenia in society. Sam Harris asserts that-- by least hypothesis-- his opponents must therefore fall in the schizophrenic group.

I can imagine Sam Harris shitting his brain-pants with such a claim. I can also imagine Bret W. unfairly putting those words in Sam's mouth.

I wanna know if Sam Harris really said anything-like-that, because I wanna know if this is yet-another example of
present-day Jab-cheerleading Progressives... putting dissenters in the same-old categories... which old-fashioned Eugenicist Progressives... used to justify sterilizing people, ghettoizing them, & sending them to Auschwitz.

________

Here we go. Sam sez...

“Everyone agrees” you can’t convince the un-vax’d by talking-down to them.

Everyone agrees? That's literally false. So I'll assume Sam meant-to-express his opinion-- that talking-down is counterproductive.
I appreciate his good intention.

Spoiler Alert: Sam Harris is DEFINITELY gonna Talk Down to those who disagree with him.
He's gonna say that Schizophenia thing, for sure.

calling them stupid or un-educated is unproductive

"and often false" which "attests to just how bad the problem of ‘misinformation’ has become— in our society."

Seems half-blind that he mentions the 'misinformation problem' but omits the prevailing 'censorship' solution. Bodes poorly when we're talking about the dubious-effectiveness of Cures.

it is the un-vax’d neighbors’ fault that Delta variant affects the vax’d.

Whoa. That's quite a claim, Sam! Please explain how that works. Delta began in India. Am I to believe the vax'd/un-vax'd divide in India is due to a nation of privileged Indians who all had access to The Jab... and the un-vax'd are mis-informed people who intentionally didn't-get-vax'd? So it's Their Own Fault ?! I don't think that matches reality, Sam. But... as you were saying...

it is the un-vax’d neighbors’ fault that Delta variant affects the vax’d. I was eating at a restaurant...

I emitted a loud guffaw when I heard this accusation, immediately followed by "I was eating in a restaurant". My neighborhood is poor people who don't travel much beyond the neighborhood. And the streets are packed with people who come from Other Places to eat in restaurants here. The Locals are far less likely to accept the jab. But the jabbed people Come To Us... then blame us if they get sick. Stay Home Like We Do, Yuppie!

half the waiters were masked, half weren’t. They Were All Young Males. I asked, "what’s the policy here?"

Sitting in a fancy café, thinking deeep thoughts... complaining about The Help. Sam Harris is the reason Fight Club is still a cult hit.

Sam actually believes the masked waiters are unvax'd & the unmasked are vax'd. :lol: Dude-- the masked ones are vax'd fear-boys & the unmasked are done being lied-to.

the only reason they're un-vaxed is the "spurious memes and bad ideas" "bouncing around in their brains" "put there by my friends" "podcasters" who "platformed those who" spread misinformation

"these waiters are all podcast listeners" "if not for them "masks would be unnecessary" ...this was before Delta

That last 'this was before Delta'... doesn't make sense. If (according to CDC) Delta is spread by both Vax'd & Un-Vax'd people... then the MASKED unvax'd waiters would be the ones who protected Harris. <--Even if we didn't know that At The Time. Objective truth doesn't change, even when Political Truth does.

"the goal of today's podcast... is persuading some number of the vaccine hesitant"

Yeah dude. You're not off to a good start. In 6min47sec... you went from Insulting The Un-Vax'd Doesn't Persuade...
to Karen In A Restaurant.

but i'll keep listening

[Service Dog]

.

"Lemme get this straight...
There's a new variant the original vaccine didn't catch, so we should take the same vaccine that didn't catch it, to be safe from it?"


screenshot
https://media.patriots.win/post/4q6jsIEe.jpeg

[Service Dog]

I would like to know why YT channels like this one remain free to spread piles of the stuff horses leave behind, stuff that is way over the line of inflammatory misinformation feeding the delusions of people who think that a military coup and reinstitution of Trump is possible, underway and a good thing. I think they should be free to dump whatever turds they wish, but this stuff is way overboard by YT's own standards. I smell FBI honey, but maybe YT are just picking and choosing the opposition they want you to see.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa8qhi ... KYg/videos

This 'patriot group' consists entirely of 25 year old white males in military condition. Appeared out of nowhere in 2021, wearing their brand-new gear. The audio seems intentionally-incoherent. I haven't heard a single Trump supporter who believes they are real. I've heard dozens who guess they're Federal agents.

If so-- it strikes me as criminal tampering with due process-- of every person facing charges for January 6-- to have this false flag media campaign creating an illusion of real danger.

The choice of Tucker clip raises questions-- what are they trying to say?

[Steersman]

.

"Lemme get this straight...
There's a new variant the original vaccine didn't catch, so we should take the same vaccine that didn't catch it, to be safe from it?"


screenshot
https://media.patriots.win/post/4q6jsIEe.jpeg

:roll:

From the first link below, though you should look at the others too:

As the delta variant spread in Israel, the health ministry found that the effectiveness of the two-dose Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine dropped to just 39%, even though protection against severe illness remained high. The country has started to administer booster shots to people over age 60.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/06/covid-c ... world.html

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... ta-variant

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... d-vaccines

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... th-busters

Unless you have some evidence that that 39% figure is wildly inaccuate, methinks you're blowing smoke out of your arse. You might quibble about "cost-benefit ratios", but a 39% reduction in the number of deaths and hospitalizations seems rather better than a zero % reduction. Unless you have some alternatives?

And, if that 39% figure holds water then Harris might have something of a point that the unvaxed are contributing - apparently, at first blush, to a first approximation - to what one might reasonably argue is at least 61% of those deaths and hospitalizations ...

[Service Dog]

Apologies, Steers... I'm gonna reply-first & look at your links later. Seafood dinner comes first.

https://media.patriots.win/post/BugQtR3z.jpeg

[Brive1987]

This feels like it should be a useful metaphor.

For something. 🤷‍♂️

[Steersman]

Apologies, Steers... I'm gonna reply-first & look at your links later. Seafood dinner comes first.

https://media.patriots.win/post/BugQtR3z.jpeg

Sounds fishy ... ;)

Something for "dessert" when you return:

https://factcheck.afp.com/scientist-mak ... ine-safety

Not sure she really realizes how mRNA vaccines work. Or how viruses evolve even in the absence of vaccines:

The existence and continued emergence of virus variants is normal for all viruses.

Changes in the virus genome, called mutations, occur at random as they multiply. Mutations can have a big or small impact, and can affect the survival of the virus, its ability to adapt to new hosts, its transmissibility, disease severity and characteristics—even its ability to escape recognition by antibodies generated after previous infections or vaccination.

https://www.path.org/articles/virus-var ... -efficacy/

Apparently different variations are going to be generated even in those who haven't been vaccinated, just through the replication of the viruses and the normal immune responses.

But if you're going out to a restaurant, I expect some numbers on the number of waiters/waitresses with and without masks, and their vaccination status ... ;)

[Service Dog]

Starting this week, the government demands I show my Slave Papers to eat in a restaurant. I do not intend to comply.
_____

First-- let me admit-- that I don't know how credible Janci Lindsay PhD is. I read that tweet right-before dinner & it directly addressed the question of whether the Un-Vaxed Gave The Vax'd The Delta Variant, so I posted it. But all-I-know about Janci-- is she gained notoriety by making bombshell statements during some public comment segment of a CDC meeting.
_____

https://factcheck.afp.com/scientist-mak ... ine-safety

This fact-check is from May. It can't possibly be fact-checking Janci's Delta variant claims.
But if she was full-of-shit before, yeah, it hurts her credibility now.
However, by the same standard, any flaws in the fact-check make the whole fact-check less credible:

Unfortunately, I see claims in this fact-check which I can prove are absurd.
For example, the claim that the Pfizer is safe for pregnant women.
The fact-check cites a 6-month study of pregnant women-- given the Pfizer Vax.
It is impossible for a February study to have-proven that the vax is safe... in May.
'A study is being conducted' isn't the same as 'a study has proven'.
_____

Janci claimed: “we have heard multiple reports of menses irregularities in those vaccinated.”

The fact check: cited someone with degrees in Anthropology and Women's Studies:fpig: , who says: “So menstrual changes are not concerning, but rather short-term side effects that are similar to sore arm, fatigue, fever,”

Not Concerning is a subjective opinion. The factual truth of Janci's claim is only confirmed.

____

"The existence and continued emergence of virus variants is normal for all viruses.

Changes in the virus genome, called mutations, occur at random as they multiply. Mutations can have a big or small impact, and can affect the survival of the virus, its ability to adapt to new hosts, its transmissibility, disease severity and characteristics—even its ability to escape recognition by antibodies generated after previous infections or vaccination."
https://www.path.org/articles/virus-var ... -efficacy/

Apparently different variations are going to be generated even in those who haven't been vaccinated, just through the replication of the viruses and the normal immune responses.

Yes, random mutations of the Virus will occur in both Vax'd an Un-Vax'd people. That's not in dispute!

The question is-- whether a "poor neutralizing" (aka "leaky") vaccine acts as an incubator for the worst strains. In un-vaxed subjects-- the worst strains would kill the host & not spread to other hosts. But a "poor neutralizing" vax protects the vax'd host from death from-the-dangerous-new-mutant... but Does Not Prevent the host from spreading that mutant to others, who DO die. That's the opposite of Herd Immunity.

National Geographic:
"The Marek’s vaccine is “imperfect” or “leaky.” That is, it protects chickens from developing disease, but doesn’t stop them from becoming infected or from spreading the virus. Inadvertently, this made it easier for the most virulent strains to survive. Such strains would normally kill their hosts so quickly that they’d die out. But in an immunized flock, they can persist because their lethal nature has been neutered. That’s not a problem for vaccinated individuals. But unvaccinated birds are now in serious trouble."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... en-viruses

[John D]

National Geographic:
"The Marek’s vaccine is “imperfect” or “leaky.” That is, it protects chickens from developing disease, but doesn’t stop them from becoming infected or from spreading the virus. Inadvertently, this made it easier for the most virulent strains to survive. Such strains would normally kill their hosts so quickly that they’d die out. But in an immunized flock, they can persist because their lethal nature has been neutered. That’s not a problem for vaccinated individuals. But unvaccinated birds are now in serious trouble."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... en-viruses

Very interesting. There are many poor performing vaccine out there... the ones made by China and Russia. Perhaps they are "variant makers" because they are so leaky.

[screwtape]

.

"Lemme get this straight...
There's a new variant the original vaccine didn't catch, so we should take the same vaccine that didn't catch it, to be safe from it?"


screenshot
https://media.patriots.win/post/4q6jsIEe.jpeg

:roll:

From the first link below, though you should look at the others too:

As the delta variant spread in Israel, the health ministry found that the effectiveness of the two-dose Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine dropped to just 39%, even though protection against severe illness remained high. The country has started to administer booster shots to people over age 60.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/06/covid-c ... world.html

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... ta-variant

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... d-vaccines

https://www.who.int/emergencies/disease ... th-busters

Unless you have some evidence that that 39% figure is wildly inaccuate, methinks you're blowing smoke out of your arse. You might quibble about "cost-benefit ratios", but a 39% reduction in the number of deaths and hospitalizations seems rather better than a zero % reduction. Unless you have some alternatives?

And, if that 39% figure holds water then Harris might have something of a point that the unvaxed are contributing - apparently, at first blush, to a first approximation - to what one might reasonably argue is at least 61% of those deaths and hospitalizations ...

Reading and comprehending are not the same thing. "Effectiveness" in the quote above refers to preventing someone from catching the disease, and is now 39% instead of 94%. However, even if the vaccinated person catches the disease the chance they will get very sick or die is tiny compared to unvaccinated people - that's the "protection against severe illness" part. That's why the vaccine that doesn't prevent the Delta is still being recommended. I don't mind catching a disease that makes me barely have a symptom, except for one thing: I will be just as good at passing it on as someone who is unvaccinated and deathly sick, and maybe even better at it as I will feel well enough to carry on with normal life. And the only people it gets passed onto who will suffer are the unvaccinated, which is why I pointed out that letting everyone else take any risk with a vaccine while you enjoy the benefits (as free-riding anti-vaxxers do with measles etc) isn't going to be a good strategy in this case. Maybe it's fine for a libertarian to say it's their choice and they'll take their chances, but they may in turn pass the disease on to those for whom vaccination is ineffective or not being performed - the elderly, children and the immunosuppressed. Sometimes we do things for others, not just for ourselves. A concept, like wearing a mask for the benefit of others, that seems to be beyond some people's comprehension.

[Keating]

Wouldn't that also suggest that we are locked into taking "booster" shots once or twice a year for the rest of our lives?

[Service Dog]

Reading and comprehending are not the same thing. "Effectiveness" in the quote above refers to preventing someone from catching the disease, and is now 39% instead of 94%. However, even if the vaccinated person catches the disease the chance they will get very sick or die is tiny compared to unvaccinated people - that's the "protection against severe illness" part. That's why the vaccine that doesn't prevent the Delta is still being recommended. I don't mind catching a disease that makes me barely have a symptom, except for one thing: I will be just as good at passing it on as someone who is unvaccinated and deathly sick, and maybe even better at it as I will feel well enough to carry on with normal life. And the only people it gets passed onto who will suffer are the unvaccinated, which is why I pointed out that letting everyone else take any risk with a vaccine while you enjoy the benefits (as free-riding anti-vaxxers do with measles etc) isn't going to be a good strategy in this case. Maybe it's fine for a libertarian to say it's their choice and they'll take their chances, but they may in turn pass the disease on to those for whom vaccination is ineffective or not being performed - the elderly, children and the immunosuppressed. Sometimes we do things for others, not just for ourselves. A concept, like wearing a mask for the benefit of others, that seems to be beyond some people's comprehension.

Once-again, screwtape can only see the bits of my posts-- which others have quoted.

So my warnings about the vaccine as a form of Racist, Progressive First World Eugenics-- at the expense of the Third World-- remain Ignored.

:flags-usa: The Drumpf Vax was deployed at Warp Speed-- in America First-- to Make America Great Again, before there was Enough to protect the entire world.

In the above paragraph, screwtape confirms the "leaky vaccine" problem: The Vaccinated became an incubator-herd, where Deadlier Mutants thrive. The Vaccinated also become a superspreader herd-- killing Unvaccinated children, and poor people in Third World countries.

screwtape attempts to shift blame to 'Libertarians', but that does not make sense. Unvax'd libertarians would drop dead from Deadly Mutants, not live to spread it to others. The only dangerous libertarians would be Me First libertarians-- those who vax their selfish-selves First, before there's enough for the Have-nots. Whatever Made-up Political Pronouns You Identify As, Everyone Currently Vax'd Is That Sort Of Libertarian.

"beyond some people's comprehension" says screwtape. Again sorting those who deserve to live or die-- by the Master Race of intelligence.

I find that abhorrent. Natural selection does a fine job of natural selection. No need for genocidal 'help' from screwtape, Bill Gates, Soros, Fauci.

The High IQ Master Race should contemplate the selfish benefits of alternate Master Plans. Plans more gracious toward the Dumb Darkies. The deadly mutant strains ain't gonna kill 'em all. The Dumb survivors will be smart-enough to realize they got screwed. And the ensuing chimp-out might interfere with Mighty Whitey's Thousand Year Reich.

[Lsuoma]

Sometimes we do things for others, not just for ourselves. A concept, like wearing a mask for the benefit of others, that seems to be beyond some people's comprehension.

My country, 'tis of thee,

*Sniff, sniff*

[Lsuoma]

Wouldn't that also suggest that we are locked into taking "booster" shots once or twice a year for the rest of our lives?

Kinda like influenza? Could be...

But if the fatality rate for unvaccinated stays high, we'll see a general ongoing cull, perhaps.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

I don't mind catching a disease that makes me barely have a symptom, except for one thing: I will be just as good at passing it on as someone who is unvaccinated and deathly sick...

If I caught it like I think I may have, my antibodies are fucking swole now, much better than the 'leaky' resistance provided by the vax. My immune system is out here protecting your broken one. You're welcome.

Sometimes we do things for others, not just for ourselves. A concept, like wearing a mask for the benefit of others, that seems to be beyond some people's comprehension.

Mask are useless. People wear them partly as talismans, but mostly now to virtue signal. The fact that some people aren't selfish, but rather blessed with common sense, seems beyond your comprehension.

[Matt Cavanaugh]

But if the fatality rate for unvaccinated stays high, we'll see a general ongoing cull, perhaps.

What fatality rate?

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Yes, random mutations of the Virus will occur in both Vax'd an Un-Vax'd people. That's not in dispute!

The question is-- whether a "poor neutralizing" (aka "leaky") vaccine acts as an incubator for the worst strains. In un-vaxed subjects-- the worst strains would kill the host & not spread to other hosts. But a "poor neutralizing" vax protects the vax'd host from death from-the-dangerous-new-mutant... but Does Not Prevent the host from spreading that mutant to others, who DO die. That's the opposite of Herd Immunity.

National Geographic:
"The Marek’s vaccine is “imperfect” or “leaky.” That is, it protects chickens from developing disease, but doesn’t stop them from becoming infected or from spreading the virus. Inadvertently, this made it easier for the most virulent strains to survive. Such strains would normally kill their hosts so quickly that they’d die out. But in an immunized flock, they can persist because their lethal nature has been neutered. That’s not a problem for vaccinated individuals. But unvaccinated birds are now in serious trouble."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... en-viruses

The Weinsteins had a guest warning about this a long time ago.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

I would like to know why YT channels like this one remain free to spread piles of the stuff horses leave behind, stuff that is way over the line of inflammatory misinformation feeding the delusions of people who think that a military coup and reinstitution of Trump is possible, underway and a good thing. I think they should be free to dump whatever turds they wish, but this stuff is way overboard by YT's own standards. I smell FBI honey, but maybe YT are just picking and choosing the opposition they want you to see.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCa8qhi ... KYg/videos

This 'patriot group' consists entirely of 25 year old white males in military condition. Appeared out of nowhere in 2021, wearing their brand-new gear. The audio seems intentionally-incoherent. I haven't heard a single Trump supporter who believes they are real. I've heard dozens who guess they're Federal agents.

If so-- it strikes me as criminal tampering with due process-- of every person facing charges for January 6-- to have this false flag media campaign creating an illusion of real danger.

The choice of Tucker clip raises questions-- what are they trying to say?

It would be irresponsible to write them off, you never know what damage their 4 subscribers could do.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

National Geographic:
"The Marek’s vaccine is “imperfect” or “leaky.” That is, it protects chickens from developing disease, but doesn’t stop them from becoming infected or from spreading the virus. Inadvertently, this made it easier for the most virulent strains to survive. Such strains would normally kill their hosts so quickly that they’d die out. But in an immunized flock, they can persist because their lethal nature has been neutered. That’s not a problem for vaccinated individuals. But unvaccinated birds are now in serious trouble."
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/scie ... en-viruses

Very interesting. There are many poor performing vaccine out there... the ones made by China and Russia. Perhaps they are "variant makers" because they are so leaky.

There is another factor besides leakiness which is mass vaccination of already infected people which could have similar results.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Reading and comprehending are not the same thing. "Effectiveness" in the quote above refers to preventing someone from catching the disease, and is now 39% instead of 94%. However, even if the vaccinated person catches the disease the chance they will get very sick or die is tiny compared to unvaccinated people - that's the "protection against severe illness" part. That's why the vaccine that doesn't prevent the Delta is still being recommended. I don't mind catching a disease that makes me barely have a symptom, except for one thing: I will be just as good at passing it on as someone who is unvaccinated and deathly sick, and maybe even better at it as I will feel well enough to carry on with normal life. And the only people it gets passed onto who will suffer are the unvaccinated, which is why I pointed out that letting everyone else take any risk with a vaccine while you enjoy the benefits (as free-riding anti-vaxxers do with measles etc) isn't going to be a good strategy in this case. Maybe it's fine for a libertarian to say it's their choice and they'll take their chances, but they may in turn pass the disease on to those for whom vaccination is ineffective or not being performed - the elderly, children and the immunosuppressed. Sometimes we do things for others, not just for ourselves. A concept, like wearing a mask for the benefit of others, that seems to be beyond some people's comprehension.

Maybe this was Fauci's plan all along. No need to fund dodgy Chinese labs when you can run a massive experiment by turning the population into petri dishes and see what comes out. The bonus is dollars for pharma and a chance to play dictator.

[Lsuoma]

https://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content ... 6/nope.gif

[Service Dog]

screwtape wrote: ↑
I don't mind catching a disease that makes me barely have a symptom, except for one thing: I will be just as good at passing it on as someone who is unvaccinated and deathly sick...
If I caught it like I think I may have, my antibodies are fucking swole now, much better than the 'leaky' resistance provided by the vax. My immune system is out here protecting your broken one. You're welcome.

How cheap, easy & fast is the antibody test? On principle, I'm against having to Show My Papers for permission to go-to-work or perform necessary tasks, like shop in stores. But-- if that's too much to ask-- I'd like my antibodies to count on-paper. And maybe 'a Cuomo Veteran' medal-- in honor of having an army of sick homeless criminals quartered on my doorstep for a year.

[Service Dog]

Sam Harris....
https://samharris.org/podcasts/256-contagion-bad-ideas/

I'm 39 minutes into this podcast.

I just heard Sam Harris say there's 12,000 deaths attributed to the vaccine.

But then he interprets that stat-- by speculating (with zero evidence) that the 12,000 _may_ include Anyone Who Dies Anytime After Getting Vaccinated.

Ridiculous. 2 & 1/4 BILLION people vaccinated, but only 12,000 of them have died of Any Causes, Sam? Dirty brain-diapers.

---
Covid-skeptics expressed the SAME skepticism, about the about the mortality rate of the virus itself (when people who tested-positive were counted-as Covid Deaths/ even-if they died in a motorcycle crash). But Sam & his guest Dr. Topol-- mock that as 'conspiracy theory' & denial-ism.

Apparently, there's site called 'Better Skeptics' which monitors podcasts for false claims... and Sam is taking a drubbing for this episode. I haven't checked the site.
---

That "Twelve-thousand is probably twelve" says Sam Harris. Actual quote. A probability based on NOTHING. So... is it kosher to knock 3 zeroes off the number of deaths attributed to Covid, too? Look at the huge number of dead-- whose age of death was higher than their actuarial life-expectancy!
---

When Sam Harris calculates the 'dangers' of facing Covid without the Vax, weighed-against the 'dangers' of The Vax. He fails to include the dangers of letting fucking Sam Harris be in charge of my life.

Dunning-Kruger refers only to Dumb People Who Over-estimate Their Own Intelligence. So just-imagine how spectacularly a smart guy like Sam Harris has to fail... to Over-estimate his own intelligence... at these Dunning-Kruger levels. I think we know where those three zeros went, when he reduced 12,000 to 12.
----

Sam says his goal is to 'persuade' the Unvax'd. He's well-versed in how people actually make real-world decisions. Haidt's 'The elephant & the rider' metaphor. Yet this entire podcast is an exercise in reading statistics to elephants. But hey-- this is Sam's preferred mode of discourse, so why alter it to reach his intended audience? I wonder if Sam Harris runs marathons in flippers and scuba suit/ because HE prefers diving to running.

Sam says he exists in a 'silo'-- he only knows 1 or 2 unvaccinated people. So he proceeds to interview someone who Agrees With Him on every point. They nod-at each-other & offer zero pushback on each-other's claims.

----
Even worse, on the off-chance that the rational-elephant-rider hears Sam's statistical elephant-serenade, Sam's stats are shit.

In a previous comment-- I echoed Bret Weinstein-- regarding Sam's stats: only 2% of Dems say they Definitely Won't get vax'd, vs. the 23% of Repubs. Bret correctly guessed that Sam omitted a large percentage of people-on-the-left who don't consider themselves Dems/ who refuse the Vax.

I went to the KFF Survey website-- which Sam cited. They break-down the vax'd & un-vax'd into demographic subsets.

Here's an example of KFF's dishonesty: "white evangelicals" are singled-out for their high rate of vax refusal. 23%.

And how does that compare to other religious classifications? IT DOESN'T. 'White evangelicals' are literally the only group singled-out for condemnation. No 'black evangelicals' or Muslims or Orthodox Jews or TEDTalk-watching atheists.

It's not politically-correct to call those groups out. It also makes the white evangelicals looks more reasonable if the other groups fare worse. And it calls into question who is really on which 'side' of these debates.
___

Sam claims "distrust" is caused by "contaminated by digital entrepreneurship” so we can’t get “ground truth” about covid and “sound public health advice”. But he's only referring to his opponents. Howabout the distrust caused by his beloved KFF, when they lie with statistics?

Or the distrust... when Sam doesn't apply the same degree of scrutiny to claims he favors-- as ones he dislikes.
___

This blindspot is downright amazing: Sam's guest faults Trump for "slinking off to get vaccinated in secret". Actual quote. Instead of making a public show of it. Minutes later, Sam's guest says one of his favorite political cartoons-- shows 'How To Get Republicans To Vaccinate'. The image is Biden saying "Vaccines are bad."

By that logic-- Trump is a far more effective pro-vax persuader, than Sam Harris. Trump knew his own followers would support a vax Trump created. But Trump avoided alienating his haters-- by making himself the face of the vax. But Sam & Dr. Topol can't give Trump credit.
___

Right After That.... what's the Very Next Thing which Dr. Topol choose to say... to Persuade these MAGA holdouts?

Topol says the anti-jab voices on the internet are RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION. :rimshot:

Like Hunter Biden's laptop, eh? Hold still. Listen. Can you feel those Red States turning blue, now that they know Russia Russia Russia is to blame?!

___

John D.-- you may be right. Sam Harris and Dr. Topol may " kick Weinsteins ass in this podcast". But I haven't gotten to that part yet.

So far-- Sam has only crossed-swords with Weinstein in two ways:

1.) Sam describes the dispute with this equation: "risk of covid + effectiveness of vaccines weighted vs. the risk of vax"

Sam automatically loses that round, because his equation is defective. It leaves-out the upside of other prophylaxis & treatments & policy options: such as Hydroxychloroquine + Zinc & Vitamin D. And Ivermectin. And exercise. And limiting lockdowns to vulnerable populations.

2.) Sam does read a lot of stats about the effectiveness & efficacy of the Jabs. Unfortunately, he cherry-picks the data. Sam sez 98% of the hospitalized & 99% of the dead-- were Unvaccinated. But he includes people who had 1 jab as 'unvaccinated'. And those numbers are pre-delta variant. Delta variant adds 1 or 2 zeroes to the vax'd rate of failure, Dr. Topol admits. So a 'majority' of those with severe delta infections-- are vaccinated (as seen in Israel).

____

I recall many many many clickbait articles, which were allegedly addressing "Guys!" about our bad behavior. But which were off-putting to the 'guys' being lectured. Only appealing to the feminist audience-- who enjoyed reading a hypothetical guy being berated.

Sam Harris has indulged in that, on other subjects. Heck-- how much of New Atheists dunking-on Dumb Christians-- was actually for consumption by atheists. Not really designed to Win Friends and Influence People.

Even-if Sam is trying-to be sober about Covid... because his honor as a serious scientist is on the line... bad habits carry-over.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

Wouldn't that also suggest that we are locked into taking "booster" shots once or twice a year for the rest of our lives?

Kinda like influenza? Could be...

But if the fatality rate for unvaccinated stays high, we'll see a general ongoing cull, perhaps.

Influenza isn't usually as deadly or as infectious and most people just ignore it. Influenza isn't used as much by politicians to create a convenient never-ending emergency. Covid is a different ball game and every opportunity should be taken to eradicate it, which would mean utilising every available prophylactic and treatment. Instead we see the shutting down of any alternative to vaccines, a strategy which is arguably going to make the disease more contagious with prohibition of discussion about that. A bit like the global warming deniers really, everything possible done to limit effective addressing of the problem. Vaccines are the only solution, just accept it and comply in perpetuity and jump when we say.

[Service Dog]

A bit like the global warming

Yeah. The 'science is settled'. Like at the 21st World Climate Summit in Paris, 2015...

the scientific consensus was so overwhelmingly-complete... that this was the keynote speaker:



Greta is just the Lady Gaga to Koko's Climate-Madonna routine.

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

A bit like the global warming

Yeah. The 'science is settled'. Like at the 21st World Climate Summit in Paris, 2015...

the scientific consensus was so overwhelmingly-complete... that this was the keynote speaker:



Greta is just the Lady Gaga to Koko's Climate-Madonna routine.

Don't confuse politics, activism and science. No real scientist ever says that the science is completely settled, what they do mean when they say settled is that the evidence is so compelling that to argue against it's compelled conclusion without new evidence is just denialism. The evidence for man made global warming is just as compelling now as it always was. All that has happened lately is that left wing environmental activists are making a lot of noise and the right has taken the political nonsense infecting medicine and biology as an excuse to attack climate science. Right wing media (looking at you Alan Jones,Rowan Dean etc.) megaphone any disingenuous, plain lying or lunatic scientist with a half-assed argument about climate science and they're unfortunately being believed. The money flows to the deniers and the extreme activists, not the scientists. The same thing is happening with Covid where the politicians and political activists are the ones gaining and the honest scientists get sidelined.

[Service Dog]

global warming

I know.
I was just lookin' for an excuse to post that Koko vid, since I recently watched this well-made Koko Couldn't Talk (Sorry) debunk video.

[John D]

global warming

I know.
I was just lookin' for an excuse to post that Koko vid, since I recently watched this well-made Koko Couldn't Talk (Sorry) debunk video.

So... there was a popular idea that people with severe autism could be communicated with if they had a dedicated non-autistic partner. I don't know.... maybe people are still trying this. But... a few years ago I think this was mostly debunked. A bizarre event happened in Michigan regarding this. The "translator" of an autistic patient said that their patient was raped by someone. They accused a man of rape based on a fake interpretation of the autists grunts and gestures. Our state prosecutor tried the case and ruined this man's life... before he was finally released and found to be not guilty.

[Service Dog]

More of Sam Harris & Dr. Topol
_______________________________________________________

Topol: “In the entire history of vaccines, there has never been anything that showed up beyond 2 months after the vaccines were in common use. We’re now at 7 months. there’s No Reason to think that These Vaccines are going to be any different.” “long term, there’s no more surprises”. “Theres. No. Long. Term. Surprises. that we can see. at this point.”

Me: The end of your statement refutes the prior part. These mRNA things ARE different. And is that “2 months after” reeeally proof that vax’s are safe after two months? Or is 2 month just when the study's follow-up period ended?
I can’t just take-your-word. Because your credibility is only as good as this next claim:

Topol: The possibility of jabvax getting into the brain is “totally unsubstantiated”.

Me: Totally? Except for the study showing the spike protein can cross the blood-brain barrier, and the models showing Covid can ‘ride’ vax-spike antibodies as a trojan horse.

Sam: A zillion people have gotten the vax. We’re just not seeing the pandemic of bad-effects the doomsayers keep talking about.

Me: That’s actually a good point. But the jab-fetishists keep tampering with the data. Like dissolving the control groups. Thousands of reports listed on the VAERS database disappeared without explanation. Fauci still has a job & isn’t in prison. Cuomo still walks free, in power. I see a zillion reasons to not-believe your rosy claims.

Sam: “Bret Weinstein”

Topol: audibly Laughs Out Loud in the background

Me: Dude, were you listening when Sam said, ““Everyone agrees” you can’t convince the un-vax’d by talking-down to them.”
__

Topol: “…fact-checking the then-president…”

Me: Hey, uh, are you trying-to persuade Trump voters, or pander to Trump haters. Refusing to say ‘President Trump’ is not persuasive.

Sam: “i haven’t heard what Bret has said… I’ve heard enough to be concerned."

Me: So, this topic is so life & death important, that you Don’t Need To listen to the guy you’re refuting? eyeroll.

____

Topol: It’s irresponsible for Bret W. to say “the pandemic would end in a month” if Ivermectin were widely-distributed.

Me: Fair enough. Now raise your voice at Sam the same way, for saying 'All This Would Be Over if everyone got vax’d'— at the beginning of this episode.

Topol: Dr. Malone wasn’t the inventor of mRNA vaccines. That’s a “specious” Malone is one of the “chief offenders”

Me: I’ve researched this. Malone’s description of his own bonafides checks-out.

Topol: He didn’t invent “either of these mRNA vaccines.”

Me: That’s a strawman. That wasn’t Malone's claim. He claimed to have invented formative mRNA vaccine technologies back in the late ’80’s.


Topol: Bret Weinstein & Heather Heying’s ”channel of disinformation is predatory”


Topol: Some journalist was “formerly credible at the new york times” but “now he’s a regular on fox news”.

Me: Fox News? Ya don't say! What part of Being-Persuasive-To-MAGA red hats don’t-you understand?!

Sam: 1% of people…. including PhDs and M.D.s… “just snap”. 1% of the public has Schizophrenia

Me: The rate of Trump Derangement Syndrome is MUCH HIGHER THAN ONE PERCENT

Sam: you can get some doctors to “say anything”… on behalf of, for example… Big Tobacco.

Me: Sam you incredible dolt. In this scenario… the Big Tobacco is BIG PHARMA. You just argued that Big Pharma claims are as dubious as Big Tobacco.


Topol: There’s a “lack of adequate proof, for Ivermectin”.

Me: You only say that because there’s no large scale blind control study for Ivermectin. But they DISSOLVED the control groups for Pfizer and Moderna… so now they’re on the same level. You keep ignoring the huge pools of public health data in favor of Ivermectin. But you let Sam make pro-jab claims based on the huge pools of public health data in favor of the Jabs. You’re too biased to trust.

Topol: “Remember when trump frequently lied?”

Sam: “Something like 20,000 times”

Me: now do Biden. And Fauci. And how many of Trump’s lies— “I have a vaccine, it works, it’s coming soon” are things you shitheads are now swearing-by.

Topol: There used to be real-time fact-checking of Trump. We don’t have that, in the pandemic.

Me: Fact check: Not true. We have so-much ‘real time’ fact-checking that no-no words are automatically deleted... on ONE SIDE of the debate. But no bigtime fact-check of the Pro-Jab propaganda.

Topol: Jab skeptics “have the license to just make things up”.

Me: you just made that up

Topol: the VAERS registry cases— none of them have been adjudicated

Me: fascinating. Then they shouldn’t have deleted any VAERS reports, yet. But they did.

Sam: “When you talk to conspiracy minded people”— “9/11 truthers”— “the insurmountable obstacles to getting people to collaborate on a conspiracy… and never breathe a word of it afterwards” planting bombs in the WTC towers, for example…

Me: Oh, here we go again. I addressed this recently— in a post about Dr. Attia’s podcast with the Vanity Fair writer whose article about the Lab Leak cover-up— made a big splash.

Dr. Attia spouted the same old talking-point: Conspiracy Theories Are Preposterous Because It's So Hard To Keep Everyone-Who-Knows Silent & Hidden.
Except, in this case, The Conspiracy keeps getting exposed! And the ongoing cover-up isn’t secret: we can see the censorship, the cancelling, and the BULLYING METHODS you fucks are willing to use.

We've seen Peter Daszak’s machinations, and the DOJ dropping charges against Cuomo for covering-up evidence of the Thousands people who died in nursing homes-- because of him. We see Pelosi & the Dems blocking the declassification of Wuhan Lab Leak Intel. And the media’s willingness to cover-up BIDEN’S SENILITY AND CRIMES. None of these are Schizophrenic Delusions, Sam. That’s GAS LIGHTING.

https://slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.ph ... cy#p504117

[Service Dog]

Oh
My
GOD

I can't believe it.

Sam Harris is TELLING PEOPLE TO INJECT PEANUT BUTTER INTO THEIR VEINS !!!

https://media.patriots.win/post/K5aV81Z1.jpeg

(that's how this game works, right?)

[Matt Cavanaugh]

Kate Brown, Oregon governor and smokin' hawt fox, signs bill suspendingreading, writing and math proficiency requirements for high school graduation. Because, well you know why.

https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/202 ... ut-it.html

[Service Dog]

"Boyle said in an emailed statement that suspending the reading, writing and math proficiency requirements while the state develops new graduation standards will benefit “Oregon’s Black, Latino, Latina, Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, Pacific Islander, Tribal, and students of color.”

Asians: Fuck you.

Spics: "Latino, Latina, Latinx" ? That's 3 categories, now?

[ThreeFlangedJavis]

I know nothing about Mcullough but I'll provisionally give credence to him as a source because Alison is usually quite reliable. Mcullough cuts through a lot of the fog. Among other things he says that 1/2 million people have been injured by the vaccines, vaccination status is not recorded when getting Covid tested and that the CDC is aware of 6000 hospitalisations of vaccinated people since May of which 18% died.

[Keating]

Sometimes we do things for others, not just for ourselves. A concept, like wearing a mask for the benefit of others, that seems to be beyond some people's comprehension.

Isn't this the pronoun argument?

[Keating]

Wouldn't that also suggest that we are locked into taking "booster" shots once or twice a year for the rest of our lives?

Kinda like influenza? Could be...

But if the fatality rate for unvaccinated stays high, we'll see a general ongoing cull, perhaps.

Seems rather eugenic, given we're never going to get 100% world wide vaccination, and the poorest countries will be least likely to have 100% vaccination.

[Steersman]

More of Sam Harris & Dr. Topol
_______________________________________________________

<snip>

Topol: Dr. Malone wasn’t the inventor of mRNA vaccines. That’s a “specious” Malone is one of the “chief offenders”

Me: I’ve researched this. Malone’s description of his own bonafides checks-out.

Topol: He didn’t invent “either of these mRNA vaccines.”

Me: That’s a strawman. That wasn’t Malone's claim. He claimed to have invented formative mRNA vaccine technologies back in the late ’80’s.

<snip>

Something of a smoking gun:



Tweet still up. And his own blog reiterates the claim:

Dr. Malone is the inventor of mRNA vaccines (and DNA vaccines). He also discovered lipid mediated and naked RNA transfection technologies. .... This resulted in his seminal paper: Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection; RW Malone, PL Felgner, IM Verma. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences [PNAS]

https://www.rwmalonemd.com/mrna-vaccine-inventor

Maybe some distance from "RNA transfection" to "inventor of mRNA vaccines".

[Service Dog]

What do you think you're refuting?

Malone claims he invented mRNA stuff in the '80's.

Topol responds-- calling Malone's claims "specious".
Topol continues-- saying Malone did not invent "either of these" vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna).

I posted that Topol is battling a strawman: Malone Did Not Claim to invent the _specific_ Pfizer and Moderna jabs. Rather: predecessors in the 1980's.

Then you reply with Prof Francious Balloux saying "I presume..." the basis for Malone's claims is [3 citations from the 90's].

Followed-by you citing the first 2 sentences of Malone's own biographical link. Did you read any-further? Your own link shows that Balloux's "I presume" was incorrect. With links to Malone's patent applications & other evidence.

:snooty:

[Steersman]

<snip>

From the first link below, though you should look at the others too:

As the delta variant spread in Israel, the health ministry found that the effectiveness of the two-dose Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine dropped to just 39%, even though protection against severe illness remained high. The country has started to administer booster shots to people over age 60.

<snip>

Unless you have some evidence that that 39% figure is wildly inaccuate, methinks you're blowing smoke out of your arse. You might quibble about "cost-benefit ratios", but a 39% reduction in the number of deaths and hospitalizations seems rather better than a zero % reduction. Unless you have some alternatives?

And, if that 39% figure holds water then Harris might have something of a point that the unvaxed are contributing - apparently, at first blush, to a first approximation - to what one might reasonably argue is at least 61% of those deaths and hospitalizations ...

Reading and comprehending are not the same thing. ....

Indeed. One can lead a horse to water ... ;)

If there's any silver lining at all to Covid, it's in at least underlining Sagan's somewhat unevidenced argument that some 97% of Americans - and most other countries to boot - are scientifically illiterate. Though, to be fair, viruses and vaccines - and many peripherally related issues - are a complicated phenomenon and "honest people may disagree". Reminds me somewhat of the Damore kerfuffle which more or less turned on a general cluelessness about the nature of statistics. But there again, statistics is something of a murky and "counter-intuitive" topic, though many made a yeoman's effort to explain the topic, to bring enlightenment to the masses:

https://backreaction.blogspot.com/2017/ ... emo-i.html

https://s8mb.medium.com/understanding-a ... 3394f3512c

"Effectiveness" in the quote above refers to preventing someone from catching the disease, and is now 39% instead of 94%. However, even if the vaccinated person catches the disease the chance they will get very sick or die is tiny compared to unvaccinated people - that's the "protection against severe illness" part. That's why the vaccine that doesn't prevent the Delta is still being recommended. I don't mind catching a disease that makes me barely have a symptom, except for one thing: I will be just as good at passing it on as someone who is unvaccinated and deathly sick, and maybe even better at it as I will feel well enough to carry on with normal life.

That "just as good at passing it on as someone who is unvaccinated" looks rather suspect.

CDC argues the vaccinated, for all variants, generally wind up with lower "viral loads" - and therefore less likely to spread the virus around:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-nc ... eople.html

Several other sources likewise, particularly the more recent one at NBC that more explicitly refers to the Delta variant:

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science ... c-rcna1604

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01316-7

Something of an odd-man out is an article at Medical Net by one Dr. Dutta:

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210 ... delta.aspx

However, given that the standard vaccines have a reduced effectiveness of 39% against the Delta, it seems Dutta's results are entirely consistent with the argument that some 61% of those vaccinated and who are infected by the Delta variant would have a viral load that is virtually the same as those who aren't vaccinated. Given Dutta's relatively small sample, it is not particularly surprising that the viral loads would be about the same; would probably need a much larger sample to really justify her - or her headliner writer's - conclusion. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

But rather a tricky to understand the processes of infection, vaccination, and transmission.

And the only people it gets passed onto who will suffer are the unvaccinated, which is why I pointed out that letting everyone else take any risk with a vaccine while you enjoy the benefits (as free-riding anti-vaxxers do with measles etc) isn't going to be a good strategy in this case. Maybe it's fine for a libertarian to say it's their choice and they'll take their chances, but they may in turn pass the disease on to those for whom vaccination is ineffective or not being performed - the elderly, children and the immunosuppressed. Sometimes we do things for others, not just for ourselves. A concept, like wearing a mask for the benefit of others, that seems to be beyond some people's comprehension.

Again, seems a bit moot on the "who will suffer are the unvaccinated". That some 61% of those vaccinated would seem to be in the same boat as the vaccinated, at least as far as their exposure to the Delta variant goes, means that 61% of vaccinated are just as susceptible to it as the unvaccinated. And may well suffer as much.

Still, a bit tricky to keep track of all the permutations and combinations.

[Steersman]

What do you think you're refuting?

Malone claims he invented mRNA stuff in the '80's.

....

What? Malone is explicitly saying he invented mRNA vaccines; Balloux's "presume his claim" is immaterial. You seriously think that's true? Your evidence that he did so is what?



That's probably closer - as an analogy - to the inventor of the transistor, William Shockley, saying he invented the Internet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Shockley

[Steersman]

<snip>
Mask are useless. People wear them partly as talismans, but mostly now to virtue signal. The fact that some people aren't selfish, but rather blessed with common sense, seems beyond your comprehension.

Define "useless". As I mentioned before, the evidence is pretty solid that masks reduce the dispersion of our exhalations. Hence, likely to contribute somewhat to reducing the spread of the virus. Fairly stark illustration of that effect here in an oldish Forbes article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswith ... 49c345f3c2

You can quibble about whether the reduction is worth the costs, but "useless" is a stretch. If not a case of peddling "dangerous misinformation" ... ;)

But you probably have something of a point about "virtue signaling". Or that many people haven't a clue that in cases where people are widely dispersed as in various outside venues, or they're isolated to begin with - alone in their own cars for example, masks have a very limited benefit.

[Service Dog]

probably closer - as an analogy - to the inventor of the transistor, William Shockley, saying he invented the Internet.

You have zero basis for that comparison. It popped into your head, so you typed it.

Dr. Malone's wikipedia entry bears a "SilverLock" because jokers like you pulled same bullshit there-- that you're pulling here: A SilverLock is applied in response to "a significant amount of disruption or vandalism.... especially when it occurs on biographies of living persons who have had a recent high level of media interest."

Wikipedia's revision history records the many attacks on Malone's entry.

This is an excerpt from Deutsche Welle (Germany's state-sponsored public news broadcaster)-- a source cited in Wikipedia's current entry for Dr. Malone:

"How new is the idea of messenger RNA?

The idea is not at all new.

In 1961, the biologists Sydney Brenner, Francois Jacob and Matthew Meselson discovered that RNA transported genetic information. They also found that the process could be used to produce proteins in cells.

But it wasn't until 1989 that virologist Robert Malone managed to demonstrate the process.

Researchers carried out the first laboratory studies with mRNA vaccines on mice in 1993 and 1994.

One of their targets was the Semliki Forest virus, which was detected in 1942 in Uganda where it infected rodents.

The first clinical trials with mRNA vaccines and humans were done in 2002 and 2003. Those trials targeted cancer cells."

Malone cites this excerpt-- from the 1989 mRNA vaccine patent #6,867,195-- as "directly derived" from his lab work:




Go back to the Sam Harris podcast. Which was supposed-to dispel misinformation & offer persuasive proof of scientific reality.

Go to the part where Topol calls Malone "specious" with zero supporting evidence. Just the word: "specious".

Then Topol says Malone didn't invent “either of these mRNA vaccines" (Pfizer or Moderna).

That says so much more about how worthless Topol's debunk is-- than the man he's attempting to debunk.

[Brive1987]

Well the Sydney lock down is fucked.



Why is this?

Oh. It’s because we imported the third world. As good little Aussies. Well. How’d that work out for a strong unified society.




We loaded the gun with our GDP focused immigration policy and China pulled the trigger.

[Steersman]

probably closer - as an analogy - to the inventor of the transistor, William Shockley, saying he invented the Internet.

You have zero basis for that comparison. It popped into your head, so you typed it.

Analogy may be a bit hyperbolic, but it is an analogy, a comparison between target and source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy#I ... f_relation

Malone is to "inventor of mRNA vaccines" as Shockley is to inventor of the Internet. The common element is that both individiuals contributed substantially to those "inventions", but it's a stretch to say they actually invented those things. Even your own Deutsche Welle reference indicates that the idea was at least broached or suggested much earlier that Malone's work. Hardly "zero basis".

You might reflect on both that Wikipedia article on analogies, and the one you quoted earlier on thoughtcrime:

Crimestop means the faculty of stopping short, as though by instinct, at the threshold of any dangerous thought. It includes the power of not grasping analogies, of failing to perceive logical errors, of misunderstanding the simplest arguments if they are inimical to Ingsoc ....

;)

And also Malone's which argues later contributors are more deserving of the title:

Malone claims to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines, although credit for the distinction is more often given to later advancements by Katalin Karikó or Derrick Rossi.

If Wikipedia questions that claim then it seems I'm in good company.

Dr. Malone's wikipedia entry bears a "SilverLock" because jokers like you pulled same bullshit there-- that you're pulling here: A SilverLock is applied in response to "a significant amount of disruption or vandalism.... especially when it occurs on biographies of living persons who have had a recent high level of media interest." ....

"jokers like me"? You're rather quick with unevidenced accusations.

Wikipedia's revision history records the many attacks on Malone's entry.

This is an excerpt from Deutsche Welle (Germany's state-sponsored public news broadcaster)-- a source cited in Wikipedia's current entry for Dr. Malone ...

Glad to see you making full use out of Wikipedia, getting your feet wet, defending the site even - will make a True Believer out of you yet ... ;)

Go back to the Sam Harris podcast. Which was supposed-to dispel misinformation & offer persuasive proof of scientific reality.

Go to the part where Topol calls Malone "specious" with zero supporting evidence. Just the word: "specious".

Then Topol says Malone didn't invent “either of these mRNA vaccines" (Pfizer or Moderna).

That says so much more about how worthless Topol's debunk is-- than the man he's attempting to debunk.

No need for me to do so when you're doing yeoman's work holding the feet of Harris & Company to the fire. I'm not really defending Harris - just questioning your insistence that Malone hadn't claimed to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines.

In fact, I'm not really a big fan of Harris, though he makes some good points, and his podcasts tend to have transcripts with them which are useful. But reminds me that Anjuli Pandavar - summarily ejected from the sadly misnamed Freethought Blogs, lo these many moons ago, for being less than flattering, with some justification, towards the Muslim community - was particularly critical of Harris on that score:

I wanted to show how the slickness of Nawaz and the naïveté of Harris are key obstacles in the way of our developing a realistic perspective on and appropriate response to Islam, while we are sleepwalking into a nightmare.

Brive in particular may wish to reflect on that "nightmare" quote ...

https://web.archive.org/web/20170307111 ... epwalking/

[Brive1987]

I wish to reflect on those few joys extricable from the fires of modern life.

Tough when our working suburbs are a cross between Mogadishu and Kandahar while our garden enclaves provide upmarket dachas for our new Chinese Uber-class.