You're not alone. I know at least 2 other families with estranged children due to social justice. It's heartbreaking, but maybe not permanent? Maybe the coming economic collapse will clean it up. They should have allowed the collapse back in 2009, no one would have had time for this shit.
You is all a bunch of poofs!
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
My favorite book.Keating wrote: ↑ I just finished Crime and Punishment. From the 1860s, this is on the second last page:
Fyodor Dostoevsky wrote:When he was better, he remembered the dreams he had while he was feverish and delirious. He dreamt that the whole world was condemned to a terrible new strange plague that had come to Europe from the depths of Asia. All were to be destroyed except a very few chosen. Some new sorts of microbes were attacking the bodies of men, but these microbes were endowed with intelligence and will. Men attacked by them became at once mad and furious. But never had men considered themselves so intellectual and so completely in possession of the truth as these sufferers, never had they considered their decision, their scientific conclusions, their moral convictions so infallible. Whole villages, whole towns and peoples went mad from the infection. All were executed and did not understand one another. Each thought that he alone had the truth and was wretched looking at the others, beat himself on the breast, wept and wrung his hands. They did not know how to judge and could not agree what to consider evil and what good; they did not know whom to blame, whom to justify. Men killed each other in a sort of senseless spite. They gathered together in armies against one another, but even on the march the armies would begin attacking each other, the ranks would be broken and the soldiers would fall on each other, stabbing and cutting, biting and devouring each other. The alarm bell was ringing all day long in the towns; men rushed together, but why they were summoned and who was summoning them no one knew. The most ordinary trades were abandoned because everyone proposed his own ideas, his own improvements, and they could not agree. The land too was abandoned. Men met in groups, agreed on something, swore to keep together, but at once began on something quite different from what they had proposed. They accused one another, fought and killed each other. There were conflagrations and famine. All men and all things were involved in destruction. The plague spread and moved farther and farther. Only a few men could be saved in the whole world. They were a pure chosen people, destined to found a new race and a new life, to renew and purify the earth, but no one had seen these men, no one had heard their words and their voices.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I tried engaging my younger cousin via FB this past week. She'd posted how she was feeling miserable and couldn't sleep at night, imaging George Floyd and Eric Garner unable to breathe. She felt guilty she hadn't done enough in her life to stop systemic racism. I told her it was unreasonable to feel that way or for anyone to accuse her of not doing enough. That the best we can do is make little differences in the lives of those around us. Since she's into Buddhism, I recommended:
Zen Under the Gun: Four Zen Masters from Turbulent Times
Pretty much insight on how to stay centered while the rest of the world is completely losing its shit. Definitely not advice on how to stop the world from losing its shit or, worse, joining in on the shit-losing.
She ordered it forthwith.
But then she posted this meme:
I wrote: "No, you don't - unfalsifiable. So no, it's not." She explained it was about "doing the work" to "learn about racial bias." I asked if we could talk on the phone. She said we just need to "agree to disagree".
Next day, she posts this meme:
So much for doing real work.
If ever there was someone who should take Peterson's advice to 'first, clean your room', it's my cousin. She's nearing 40, has never held a steady job for more than a few months at a time, and has lived on-and-off with her parents, where her mom would clean her room for her. She's confided to me she's bipolar, but I'd guess Dysthymia, as there's never been any manic highs. Her weight, otoh, goes way up and down. She was into playwriting for a while, and part of an off-off-off-broadway playhouse. They once performed a play with a title referencing me. I suggested she come out and stay at the Ranch for a few months, doing chores, breathing fresh air, and a lot of writing. The whole family encouraged her, but of course she never did.
I'm seriously the only one in the family who likes her. We actually can have good conversations. Except now. Nobody's talking. Just shouting, chanting, losing their shit.
Zen Under the Gun: Four Zen Masters from Turbulent Times
Pretty much insight on how to stay centered while the rest of the world is completely losing its shit. Definitely not advice on how to stop the world from losing its shit or, worse, joining in on the shit-losing.
She ordered it forthwith.
But then she posted this meme:
I wrote: "No, you don't - unfalsifiable. So no, it's not." She explained it was about "doing the work" to "learn about racial bias." I asked if we could talk on the phone. She said we just need to "agree to disagree".
Next day, she posts this meme:
So much for doing real work.
If ever there was someone who should take Peterson's advice to 'first, clean your room', it's my cousin. She's nearing 40, has never held a steady job for more than a few months at a time, and has lived on-and-off with her parents, where her mom would clean her room for her. She's confided to me she's bipolar, but I'd guess Dysthymia, as there's never been any manic highs. Her weight, otoh, goes way up and down. She was into playwriting for a while, and part of an off-off-off-broadway playhouse. They once performed a play with a title referencing me. I suggested she come out and stay at the Ranch for a few months, doing chores, breathing fresh air, and a lot of writing. The whole family encouraged her, but of course she never did.
I'm seriously the only one in the family who likes her. We actually can have good conversations. Except now. Nobody's talking. Just shouting, chanting, losing their shit.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Matt Taibbi, who's pretty left wing:
The American Press Is Destroying Itself[A]mong self-described liberals, we’re watching an intellectual revolution. It feels liberating to say after years of tiptoeing around the fact, but the American left has lost its mind. It’s become a cowardly mob of upper-class social media addicts, Twitter Robespierres who move from discipline to discipline torching reputations and jobs with breathtaking casualness.
The leaders of this new movement are replacing traditional liberal beliefs about tolerance, free inquiry, and even racial harmony with ideas so toxic and unattractive that they eschew debate, moving straight to shaming, threats, and intimidation. They are counting on the guilt-ridden, self-flagellating nature of traditional American progressives, who will not stand up for themselves, and will walk to the Razor voluntarily.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
NAL (not all liberals)
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Andrew Doyle/Titania McGrath has a great piece critical of Black Lives Matter detailing "the tidal wave of woke sentiment, unleashed in the name of anti-racism."
"We are right to be nervous about race-based collective guilt, and quasi-religious mass displays of supplication and conformity. [...] We are right to be alert to the signs of a creeping form of authoritarianism that conceals itself beneath a veneer of Social Justice. Above all, we are right to risk standing up for the values of a liberal democracy in the maelstrom of a seemingly endless culture war."
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/1 ... s-matterm/
"We are right to be nervous about race-based collective guilt, and quasi-religious mass displays of supplication and conformity. [...] We are right to be alert to the signs of a creeping form of authoritarianism that conceals itself beneath a veneer of Social Justice. Above all, we are right to risk standing up for the values of a liberal democracy in the maelstrom of a seemingly endless culture war."
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/1 ... s-matterm/
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
She will take silence as guilt, which justifies and proves her accusations. At this point no one would blame you for giving up; it takes endless energy to keep on making the same point and having it ignored. But 'there's none so blind as those who will not see'. The only other route is to let her see how her way works out, and that means withdrawing all support now and in the future. I'm sure there's a nice cats' home that deserves to be mentioned in your will as sole legatee.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I read that, and wondered about the "Fuck Madeleine McCann" placards - I mean, I thought her parents had already....no, let's not go there.justinvacula wrote: ↑ Andrew Doyle/Titania McGrath has a great piece critical of Black Lives Matter detailing "the tidal wave of woke sentiment, unleashed in the name of anti-racism."
"We are right to be nervous about race-based collective guilt, and quasi-religious mass displays of supplication and conformity. [...] We are right to be alert to the signs of a creeping form of authoritarianism that conceals itself beneath a veneer of Social Justice. Above all, we are right to risk standing up for the values of a liberal democracy in the maelstrom of a seemingly endless culture war."
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/06/1 ... s-matterm/
But Doyle/Titania's been knocking them for six lately:
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Racist deer assaults peaceful protesters:
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... rsey-march
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing ... rsey-march
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
My favourite way of washing hands:
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Howabout sending her that dream section of Crime & Punishment?screwtape wrote: ↑She will take silence as guilt, which justifies and proves her accusations. At this point no one would blame you for giving up; it takes endless energy to keep on making the same point and having it ignored. But 'there's none so blind as those who will not see'. The only other route is to let her see how her way works out, and that means withdrawing all support now and in the future. I'm sure there's a nice cats' home that deserves to be mentioned in your will as sole legatee.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Wizards of the Coast bans some old Magic: The Gathering cards.
Sargon's take:
Sargon's take:
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
If this is an example of the 'mission statement' of such organisations then it's good to know up front before deciding to join or donate money.justinvacula wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:41 pmSecular Student Alliance is beyond parody
Contesting Secular Male Supremacism to Build a Better World
Register for this event here: https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/registe ... MGHCvg79HA
Alex DiBranco began her work on right-wing movements more than a decade ago with a focus on the Christian Right and the anti-abortion movement; in recent years, this focus has shifted to analyzing the rise in secular misogynist movements that include atheist members and leaders. The organized secular/atheist movement has over-emphasized opposition to religion or the belief in a god for its own sake, rather than prioritizing the problem of harm posed to social justice from any direction. Ongoing issues with misogyny in the organized movement are one reflection of this bias, in addition to the ease with which a hollow atheist ideology accommodates male supremacist actors such as the founder of The Red Pill. Envisioning a better world requires that we take stock of the movement we want to be building, value a feminist humanist approach that can provide an inspiring platform to create change, and contest white, male, and cisgendered supremacism regardless of whether it comes from a theistic or atheistic belief system.
Alex DiBranco is executive director of the Institute for Research on Male Supremacism. Her writings on male supremacism and incel terrorism have appeared in the International Centre for Counter-Terrorism Journal and The Public Eye quarterly, a publication of the think tank Political Research Associates. She has provided trainings and advice on male supremacist ideology for social justice organizations such as Western States Center, National Domestic Workers Alliance, and SURJ. DiBranco has been interviewed about her work by outlets including NPR, The New Republic, the Chicago Tribune, Think Progress, and the Southern Poverty Law Center. She has a chapter in the book News of the Right published by Oxford University Press, drawn from her in-progress dissertation analyzing how the U.S. Right built sustainable infrastructure and political power from the 1970s through 1990s. DiBranco is a Sociology Ph.D. candidate at Yale University, affiliated with the Berkeley Center for Right-Wing Studies, and a 2019-2020 Dangerous Speech Project Global Research Initiative Fellow. Follow her on twitter @alexdibranco.
Most of the atheist conference scene had devolved into sponsored social events for the various self-appointed cognoscenti at the point our alma mater (not the dog one, the other one) started things of with her own personal big-bang event. So perhaps that was a good thing. Change is inevitable.
Also from what I've heard Lawrence Krauss's behaviour was not beyond reproach.
And finally from what I can tell belief in god or the supernatural is considered either irrelevant or a net good by most people here - so there's very little support (on whatever level) for such organisations any more. At least in these parts.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Where do you get that idea? As best as I can recall, there have been a few posts either supporting or indicating an openness to the Straussian idea that religious practice can have some utility independent of whether the religious claims are valid. Even that seems to be a minority position. I don't think there's been a single post advocating, or even expressing neutrality for, full-blown theism.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Whatever this is that's going on right now is clearly a religion, but it lacks grace. It isn't that belief in the supernatural is a net good, but that in knifing Christianity we may have unleashed something even more terrible.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I fully support cultural Christianity - which I consider benevolent. And if the model works for you, I don’t care if you believe that the Christian God is in fact the ultimate architect.jugheadnaut wrote: ↑Where do you get that idea? As best as I can recall, there have been a few posts either supporting or indicating an openness to the Straussian idea that religious practice can have some utility independent of whether the religious claims are valid. Even that seems to be a minority position. I don't think there's been a single post advocating, or even expressing neutrality for, full-blown theism.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I agree completely. What we have now is the Blue church collapse and the creation of the red church. It has no elements or concepts like self-control or forgiveness. Its only focus is on equality of outcome. A truly nightmarish doctrine that is a sort of Marxism light.
Peterson was right a few years ago...
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I think the word irrelevant covers it in that case. Maybe it's just the praxis they are advocating (or implying that they are not adverse to hinting that they are advocating).jugheadnaut wrote: ↑Where do you get that idea? As best as I can recall, there have been a few posts either supporting or indicating an openness to the Straussian idea that religious practice can have some utility independent of whether the religious claims are valid. Even that seems to be a minority position. I don't think there's been a single post advocating, or even expressing neutrality for, full-blown theism.
And tangentially, I'm not sure that the noble lie (in this context) is sufficient in an environment where criticism of religious ideas is permitted (or even encouraged).
Like Richard Spencer says - much as he agrees with the 'Four Horsemen' on atheism - he does not support their liberal agenda.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
And it's green tea in bags that I'm drinking.
I can't even see the leaves to read them.
I can't even see the leaves to read them.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Michael Nugent:
The abusive vitriol against J.K. Rowling is unjust and incomprehensible. She is defending the reality of biological sex, the sex-based rights of women, the identity-based rights of transgender people, and the safeguarding of young people.
..and of course people in the comments are being uncharitable calling her a transphobe and attacks on Nugent.
The abusive vitriol against J.K. Rowling is unjust and incomprehensible. She is defending the reality of biological sex, the sex-based rights of women, the identity-based rights of transgender people, and the safeguarding of young people.
..and of course people in the comments are being uncharitable calling her a transphobe and attacks on Nugent.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I see Andrew Sullivan was allowed by his minders to write a column this week, and he doesn't fail to excoriate the new orthodoxy. But having read it, make sure to visit the comments and weep for what humanity has become.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I agree, even as I remain an anti-theist on the primary grounds that religion is inimical to reason. But that's been greatly tempered over the last decade by a couple of factors. Firstly, Christianity has been almost entirely de-fanged as a political policy force, with most adherents having lost confidence in it as a provider of empirical knowledge or even a provider of a complete moral framework. All that remains is a comically ineffectual rump. And, most importantly, removing a source of dogmatism doesn't remove the desire for many to turn to dogmatic frameworks. Christianity had a couple of millennia of interacting with the real world to mold and humble it for the modern age. Identitarianism reeks of primitivism, and typical of a young, primitive religion it's is of adherents displaying both absolute confidence and ferocious zeal.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Atlanta cops respond to call about a guy passed out in his car in the Wendy’s drive-thru line. Cops pull guy out of his car, he fails sobriety test. Cops try to cuff him. He resists arrest, grabs a taser, runs away. Turns and tazes cop chasing him. Second cop draws gun and shoots the perp.
That cop gets fired cuz the perp started turning away again an instant before. Chief of Police resigns. Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms*, on Biden’s VP short list, opines it was excessive force. Rioters set Wendy’s on fire.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/atlan ... r-BB15rdkF
Video:
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/surve ... 4999237912
Perps grabbing tasers seems a frequent occurrence. Nearly all cops carry Level Two or Three retention holsters that make it nearly impossible to grab a firearm (Michael Brown learned that the hard way). Level Two holsters also exist for tasers, but so do simple pouches with velcro flaps. Instead of defunding the police, maybe municipalities should spring for upgraded duty belt kit.
* I'd lance Keisha's bottom.
That cop gets fired cuz the perp started turning away again an instant before. Chief of Police resigns. Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms*, on Biden’s VP short list, opines it was excessive force. Rioters set Wendy’s on fire.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/atlan ... r-BB15rdkF
Video:
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/surve ... 4999237912
Perps grabbing tasers seems a frequent occurrence. Nearly all cops carry Level Two or Three retention holsters that make it nearly impossible to grab a firearm (Michael Brown learned that the hard way). Level Two holsters also exist for tasers, but so do simple pouches with velcro flaps. Instead of defunding the police, maybe municipalities should spring for upgraded duty belt kit.
* I'd lance Keisha's bottom.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I am sure the Atlanta police chief just said "fuck this shit.... I am done with you dumb fuckers..... I'm outa here."Matt Cavanaugh wrote: ↑ Atlanta cops respond to call about a guy passed out in his car in the Wendy’s drive-thru line. Cops pull guy out of his car, he fails sobriety test. Cops try to cuff him. He resists arrest, grabs a taser, runs away. Turns and tazes cop chasing him. Second cop draws gun and shoots the perp.
That cop gets fired cuz the perp started turning away again an instant before. Chief of Police resigns. Mayor Keisha Lance Bottoms*, on Biden’s VP short list, opines it was excessive force. Rioters set Wendy’s on fire.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/atlan ... r-BB15rdkF
Video:
https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/surve ... 4999237912
Perps grabbing tasers seems a frequent occurrence. Nearly all cops carry Level Two or Three retention holsters that make it nearly impossible to grab a firearm (Michael Brown learned that the hard way). Level Two holsters also exist for tasers, but so do simple pouches with velcro flaps. Instead of defunding the police, maybe municipalities should spring for upgraded duty belt kit.
* I'd lance Keisha's bottom.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
A counter protest is in order. Interracial killings in the US are apparently 70-80% black on white. Take to the streets and protest the callous indifference to white lives. Demand that black people stop killing each other because black lives matter too. There is such a thing as institutional racism. Western institutions are soaked in belief in white malice and POC victimhood. It's about time that white people stopped accepting the blame for the inadequacies of others. There have been few societies, if any, that have worried as much about their impact on others as Western societies. As Douglas Murray puts it, why are Western countries, particularly the US and UK, always judged at their worst and the rest judged at their best? I am not being flippant. We need to start highlighting the brutalities, casual ingrained racism and other faults of other societies and really pushing back against the stain being put on us. Needs to be done without tolerance for the racist, Jew hating conspiracists who see Gates and Soros everywhere (not that Soros isn't a malignancy) that populate anti-woke movements.
This is real racism, casual and overt and yet widely accepted as true and justified.
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At around 5 mins our Thief in Chief says some racist shit of the kind no white person could ever get away with. If a white person said this in this country they would be prosecuted. After 25 years of ANC looting and anti-white employment legislation Cyril calls our economy racist and reckons the virus debacle is the perfect opportunity to "reset'" the economy. This is the guy who made 6 billion Rand off of black economic empowerment policies. Businesses need black partners to qualify for BEE status, so a white owned business has to take on a black partner whose job is usually just to rake in the bucks. It's extortion. Damned right the economy is racist.
This is real racism, casual and overt and yet widely accepted as true and justified.
.
At around 5 mins our Thief in Chief says some racist shit of the kind no white person could ever get away with. If a white person said this in this country they would be prosecuted. After 25 years of ANC looting and anti-white employment legislation Cyril calls our economy racist and reckons the virus debacle is the perfect opportunity to "reset'" the economy. This is the guy who made 6 billion Rand off of black economic empowerment policies. Businesses need black partners to qualify for BEE status, so a white owned business has to take on a black partner whose job is usually just to rake in the bucks. It's extortion. Damned right the economy is racist.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Hoho... so I did it.
I sent a link of the Dark Horse podcast, where Bret Wienstien does a great job explaining my opinion, to my daughter. She went off on a giant tear and told me to kiss her ass and fuck off.
I replied that I thought there must be something wrong with her meds because she is being so hostile.... and of course, her reply was followed up by a further fuck you.
So.... my wife emails our couples therapist and says we need a meeting soon because I was provoking my daughter. Yeah right... provoking her.
and really... I am so done with all the bitches in my life.... haha. This happens about twice a year or so where I get completely sick of my family. I feel like I am the only grown up in the room and my wife and daughters are just manipulative ninnies. Damn.
But really, right now I feel okay. I need to red pill myself once in a while to refresh.
I sent a link of the Dark Horse podcast, where Bret Wienstien does a great job explaining my opinion, to my daughter. She went off on a giant tear and told me to kiss her ass and fuck off.
I replied that I thought there must be something wrong with her meds because she is being so hostile.... and of course, her reply was followed up by a further fuck you.
So.... my wife emails our couples therapist and says we need a meeting soon because I was provoking my daughter. Yeah right... provoking her.
and really... I am so done with all the bitches in my life.... haha. This happens about twice a year or so where I get completely sick of my family. I feel like I am the only grown up in the room and my wife and daughters are just manipulative ninnies. Damn.
But really, right now I feel okay. I need to red pill myself once in a while to refresh.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Well, I hope you do! The whole point of your life, in this regard, is that you feel your position is correct. I think most of us would agree; you are in the right. If your daughter's best reply is a 'fuck you' then you can be confident she has no better reply. Congrats on winning.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Sitting here, I realise just how bad raccoons smell. I never did, but now I understand what my front deck smells of. It's completely illegal to do anything to a raccoon here, they are fur-bearers which can only be harvested by license holders who have paid large fees to the province for training and yearly licensure. So it's an unfortunate loss of revenue for the province if any of them die from natural causes, accidents or anything else. But my goodness, they do smell. Ought to take a bath now and then. Just like the bears in the garden.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I just saw a TV ad for Rodent Sheriff which is a spray made of peppermint oil. Apparently, peppermint keeps rodents and raccoons away. It will also make your deck smell minty fresh. Who knows if it works?screwtape wrote: ↑ Sitting here, I realise just how bad raccoons smell. I never did, but now I understand what my front deck smells of. It's completely illegal to do anything to a raccoon here, they are fur-bearers which can only be harvested by license holders who have paid large fees to the province for training and yearly licensure. So it's an unfortunate loss of revenue for the province if any of them die from natural causes, accidents or anything else. But my goodness, they do smell. Ought to take a bath now and then. Just like the bears in the garden.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I know of 2 positive reports: an RV owner who uses peppermint (and also fabric-softener dryer-sheets) to keep the RV rodent-free when not-in-use...mordacious1 wrote: ↑ Apparently, peppermint keeps rodents and raccoons away. It will also make your deck smell minty fresh. Who knows if it works?
and a sensible single woman in nyc... who freaked-out when she found mouse poop in her closet of expensive shoes & fashions/ used peppermint.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I'm back home in the city, from the cabin trip. Back to full internet access, so I saw the entire Atlanta Wendy's Police Shooting Bodycam video.
The first part of the Wendy's interaction confirms my anti-police opinions: a guy is drunk & is a problem. The police arrive & are the wrong tool to solve the problem. Police are authorized by the Supreme Court to tell manipulative lies. And authorized to intentionally over-charge people with life-ruining crimes as a bargaining method-- to force a guilty plea. And seize your car, your house, custody of your kids, impose crushing fines.
The drunk guy is aware the cops' conversational, professional, friendly tone-- is a trap. It's how a school bully talks while he twists your finger and picks your pocket.
The business-as-usual way the interaction is supposed to end-- is the drunk guy gets mind-fucked: he either submits to a breathalyzer & is punished for a DUI-- despite the fact that he wasn't driving. He was sleeping-it-off in the car. Or else he refuses the breathalyzer and still gets punished for same.
Why not tell him to walk the fuck home & tow his car & make him pay money to get it back? But-- nope-- the cops are assigned to handcuff him & throw him in a dungeon & feed him to a corrupt bureaucracy.
But the drunk went off-script. He emulated our founding-fathers. Fought free of the Redcoats' handcuffs, grabbed the Taser of Tyranny, and martyred himself for Freedom. Don't Tread On Me. Live Free Or Die. A Coward Dies A Thousand Deaths, A Hero Dies Just One.
=
Watching that video led to bickering with my girlfriend & an angry silence as we went to sleep last nite. Her opinion is the generic "the cops need better training". So the interaction doesn't end in a shooting.
My opinion is the cops shooting a guy at the end of the video-- distracts from the issue-- of the State routinely bullying the guy-- in the beginning of the video. These weren't undertrained rogue cops caught-on-video failing to do their assigned job. The video shows them doing exactly what We Sent Them there to do, the way we told them to do it.
=
Our week at the cabin was mostly great, with one sour note: our host/ the cabin's owner is an alcoholic pot-smoker bitter-aging-gay dude. So simple tasks-- like going to town for groceries-- become prolonged bumbling affairs. And his conversation about the world-- is limited to shallow complaints that his neighbors are all 'Republicans' and 'Rednecks'. And unfunny 'jokes' about how they're all 'straight but will let you suck their dick for heroin'.
It doesn't take long for his mentality to include me in his blurry judgements. And my dog, even. He & I are both half-hispanic, with some Injun, descended from the part of the US that used to be Mexico. But after a few drinks, he invariably decides I'm 'White'. And starts looking at my dog with wobbly suspicion. And then he always says the same line: ''your dog looks like he wants to eat Mexican'. And my dog looks back, like, 'what's wrong with this guy?' What's wrong is-- he's revealing what he really thinks of me all the time. hazy Us vs. Them weirdness.
I asked him what he thinks of all the protests, looting, riots, and more protests. He said, "Do I think black lives matter? I do!" He seriously thinks that's the only issue: a war between people who do-or-don't think black lives 'matter'. 'Republicans' vs. good people.
=
One day we blundered down to the lake. There's a narrow public-access between two lakefront cottages, where locals leave their canoes. This time, a new plastic sign was nailed to a tree-- "Private Beach" and some guy's name. Drunk-mexican-host stopped to assess the sign. He wanted to give-up immediately & get back in the car. I thought we should check if his canoe was still down by the water. He said we were going to get shot. Or someone would call the police and the police would shoot us. I was frustrated by all this childish "getting shot" melodrama talk. It's like dealing with a guy who legitimately thinks we're going to be attacked by ogres with enchanted weapons. Eclipsing the possibility that someone just put up a misleading sign-- asserting more ownership of the lake-access-point-- than they really possess.
=
Returning to the city this evening, there were 2 police SUVs with cops inside, parked facing the wrong-way on my one-way-street, under my apt window. A few buildings down, on the corner, a police van & another cop car. Clearly in response to the protesters who use the bridge to commute from Brooklyn to Manhattan. The weed&untaxed-cigarette shop was still open, right there. Maybe fewer loiterers & pot dealers on the block. One old black gross derelict, with runny nose. No shitty rap playing or cocaine-speed latin music. 4 basic-bitch white girls were on a rooftop across the street, shamelessly playing some kinda Lisa Loeb Fiona Apple crap, singing-along.
It's 4:30 am. The last hour and a half have been nearly-silent on the street. Just the sound of a few cars at the red light. Despite the Corona & Lockdown & Curfew-- it's still uncanny to be this quiet, now that it's fully summer. I guess it's because the bars are still closed.
=
I've watched a few youtube videos from people who claim to Lack An Inner Monologue. They don't 'hear' an inner voice narrating their life, in words. I don't know if the phenomenon is a real thing. Or if the youtubers who claim to be that-way really-are. But there's something about that notion-- which correlates to my mind. Time at the cabin with a confused inarticulate drunk made me feel crazy. Like I couldn't think straight. My gf is content to drink and make shallow go-nowhere smalltalk with her gay buddy. I can't deal. I feel the same way about consuming mainstream news, slanted in a brain-dead democrat way. I can't tell if I really "need" to think out loud, talk to some who comprehends what I'm saying, form my thoughts into written paragraphs, hear a variety of opinions-- expressed coherently. to keep my brain functioning clearly. But that seems to be the case.
The first part of the Wendy's interaction confirms my anti-police opinions: a guy is drunk & is a problem. The police arrive & are the wrong tool to solve the problem. Police are authorized by the Supreme Court to tell manipulative lies. And authorized to intentionally over-charge people with life-ruining crimes as a bargaining method-- to force a guilty plea. And seize your car, your house, custody of your kids, impose crushing fines.
The drunk guy is aware the cops' conversational, professional, friendly tone-- is a trap. It's how a school bully talks while he twists your finger and picks your pocket.
The business-as-usual way the interaction is supposed to end-- is the drunk guy gets mind-fucked: he either submits to a breathalyzer & is punished for a DUI-- despite the fact that he wasn't driving. He was sleeping-it-off in the car. Or else he refuses the breathalyzer and still gets punished for same.
Why not tell him to walk the fuck home & tow his car & make him pay money to get it back? But-- nope-- the cops are assigned to handcuff him & throw him in a dungeon & feed him to a corrupt bureaucracy.
But the drunk went off-script. He emulated our founding-fathers. Fought free of the Redcoats' handcuffs, grabbed the Taser of Tyranny, and martyred himself for Freedom. Don't Tread On Me. Live Free Or Die. A Coward Dies A Thousand Deaths, A Hero Dies Just One.
=
Watching that video led to bickering with my girlfriend & an angry silence as we went to sleep last nite. Her opinion is the generic "the cops need better training". So the interaction doesn't end in a shooting.
My opinion is the cops shooting a guy at the end of the video-- distracts from the issue-- of the State routinely bullying the guy-- in the beginning of the video. These weren't undertrained rogue cops caught-on-video failing to do their assigned job. The video shows them doing exactly what We Sent Them there to do, the way we told them to do it.
=
Our week at the cabin was mostly great, with one sour note: our host/ the cabin's owner is an alcoholic pot-smoker bitter-aging-gay dude. So simple tasks-- like going to town for groceries-- become prolonged bumbling affairs. And his conversation about the world-- is limited to shallow complaints that his neighbors are all 'Republicans' and 'Rednecks'. And unfunny 'jokes' about how they're all 'straight but will let you suck their dick for heroin'.
It doesn't take long for his mentality to include me in his blurry judgements. And my dog, even. He & I are both half-hispanic, with some Injun, descended from the part of the US that used to be Mexico. But after a few drinks, he invariably decides I'm 'White'. And starts looking at my dog with wobbly suspicion. And then he always says the same line: ''your dog looks like he wants to eat Mexican'. And my dog looks back, like, 'what's wrong with this guy?' What's wrong is-- he's revealing what he really thinks of me all the time. hazy Us vs. Them weirdness.
I asked him what he thinks of all the protests, looting, riots, and more protests. He said, "Do I think black lives matter? I do!" He seriously thinks that's the only issue: a war between people who do-or-don't think black lives 'matter'. 'Republicans' vs. good people.
=
One day we blundered down to the lake. There's a narrow public-access between two lakefront cottages, where locals leave their canoes. This time, a new plastic sign was nailed to a tree-- "Private Beach" and some guy's name. Drunk-mexican-host stopped to assess the sign. He wanted to give-up immediately & get back in the car. I thought we should check if his canoe was still down by the water. He said we were going to get shot. Or someone would call the police and the police would shoot us. I was frustrated by all this childish "getting shot" melodrama talk. It's like dealing with a guy who legitimately thinks we're going to be attacked by ogres with enchanted weapons. Eclipsing the possibility that someone just put up a misleading sign-- asserting more ownership of the lake-access-point-- than they really possess.
=
Returning to the city this evening, there were 2 police SUVs with cops inside, parked facing the wrong-way on my one-way-street, under my apt window. A few buildings down, on the corner, a police van & another cop car. Clearly in response to the protesters who use the bridge to commute from Brooklyn to Manhattan. The weed&untaxed-cigarette shop was still open, right there. Maybe fewer loiterers & pot dealers on the block. One old black gross derelict, with runny nose. No shitty rap playing or cocaine-speed latin music. 4 basic-bitch white girls were on a rooftop across the street, shamelessly playing some kinda Lisa Loeb Fiona Apple crap, singing-along.
It's 4:30 am. The last hour and a half have been nearly-silent on the street. Just the sound of a few cars at the red light. Despite the Corona & Lockdown & Curfew-- it's still uncanny to be this quiet, now that it's fully summer. I guess it's because the bars are still closed.
=
I've watched a few youtube videos from people who claim to Lack An Inner Monologue. They don't 'hear' an inner voice narrating their life, in words. I don't know if the phenomenon is a real thing. Or if the youtubers who claim to be that-way really-are. But there's something about that notion-- which correlates to my mind. Time at the cabin with a confused inarticulate drunk made me feel crazy. Like I couldn't think straight. My gf is content to drink and make shallow go-nowhere smalltalk with her gay buddy. I can't deal. I feel the same way about consuming mainstream news, slanted in a brain-dead democrat way. I can't tell if I really "need" to think out loud, talk to some who comprehends what I'm saying, form my thoughts into written paragraphs, hear a variety of opinions-- expressed coherently. to keep my brain functioning clearly. But that seems to be the case.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Who would be first responder in your utopia? A social worker?Service Dog wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:45 amThe first part of the Wendy's interaction confirms my anti-police opinions: a guy is drunk & is a problem. The police arrive & are the wrong tool to solve the problem.
Cuz how can Dispatch certain the subject poses zero danger?
That's one interpretation. It could also be an example of 'de-escalation' -- assessing whether the subject actually poses a threat of harming others.The drunk guy is aware the cops' conversational, professional, friendly tone-- is a trap. It's how a school bully talks while he twists your finger and picks your pocket.
No, he was driving around so plastered he passed out while ordering drive-thru.despite the fact that he wasn't driving. He was sleeping-it-off in the car.
You seem to be condoning or trivializing drunk driving here.The business-as-usual way the interaction is supposed to end-- is the drunk guy gets mind-fucked: he either submits to a breathalyzer & is punished for a DUI-- [....] Or else he refuses the breathalyzer and still gets punished for same.
Once upon a time, cops had the leeway to choose such solutions. But as part of 'policing reform', they were obliged to always go by the book.Why not tell him to walk the fuck home & tow his car & make him pay money to get it back? But-- nope-- the cops are assigned to handcuff him & throw him in a dungeon & feed him to a corrupt bureaucracy.
While the 'When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor' performance was entertaining, please explain how penalties for drunk driving -- a serious risk to innocents -- and resisting arrest are "tyranny"?But the drunk went off-script. He emulated our founding-fathers. Fought free of the Redcoats' handcuffs, grabbed the Taser of Tyranny, and martyred himself for Freedom. Don't Tread On Me. Live Free Or Die. A Coward Dies A Thousand Deaths, A Hero Dies Just One.
==
My friend the retired cop, who moved to Texas, was back in town last week. We got the chance to shoot the breeze. Really bright guy; motivated to help others. As example, instead of recommending a long hauler to move another soon-to-be California emigre's tractor to TX, he just drove halfway across the country and did himself as a favor.And authorized to intentionally over-charge people with life-ruining crimes as a bargaining method-- to force a guilty plea. And seize your car, your house, custody of your kids, impose crushing fines.
He communicates through stories. Told me about how as a cop he once got a noise disturbance call -- bunch of latino men blasting the radio. He asks, "hey guys, can you turn down the radio?" Them: "no hable ingles". He pantomimes turning down the radio. "no hable ingles". He goes and turns down the radio himself. They go over and turn it back up.
Okay, he decides, they had their chance. He goes to a line of cars parked in front of the house. None have valid registration. He calls in the first tag, asks for a two truck. It comes, tows the car. The latinos just stare, keep blasting their music. My friend has the second car towed. Radio's still blaring. My friend gets to the third car and the latinos all jump out their chairs and shout "Hey, man -- it's okay! We turn down the music!" Oh so now you hable ingles.
I'm sure that would now be decried as 'insensitivity to equally valid non-white cultural values' or something. I'd call it an highly creative application of incremental escalation. Unless your utopia will have no public disturbance ordinances, instead just letting sovereign actor neighbors sort it out among themselves by any means available, who would respond to, and peaceably resolve, situations like this one?
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Well.... I am defeated. It is time to hunker down. I am pretty much hating everyone anyway.... so let the fucker burn. Perhaps something will come from this, but I don't care enough to fight.
Below is a part of an email sent from my HR department. My public and private speech can clearly get me fired. I have no doubt that anyone and everyone will be made an example of. Today I will delete any Facebook accounts with my coworkers. I will never post on Facebook again.... except for my hobby sites (pictures of miniatures and games and such).
Just let it all burn. Don't care.
Below is a part of an email sent from my HR department. My public and private speech can clearly get me fired. I have no doubt that anyone and everyone will be made an example of. Today I will delete any Facebook accounts with my coworkers. I will never post on Facebook again.... except for my hobby sites (pictures of miniatures and games and such).
Just let it all burn. Don't care.
As a reminder: Any conduct (including actions, writings, statements, as well as postings, comments and other communications) by
employees whether on-duty or off-duty that promotes, supports, or condones harassment, discrimination, disparagement, or violence
related to an individual’s race, religion, national origin, gender or other protected status will not be tolerated. This type of conduct
undermines our ability to work together with mutual respect and dignity. Every employee is reminded to consider this Company
expectation and must understand that serious consequences will result from violation.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Before we propose a utopian solution-- we need to correctly diagnose the status-quo problem. Right now-- the police sent to that Wendy's parking lot come armed with legal powers befitting a dictatorship ruling-over serfs-with-no-rights. Not a nation of free men with inalienable rights. It's not effective to fight those cops at the level of struggling against being handcuffed & grabbing a taser. But is rightful to fight them-- and the system which empowers them-- at some level.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: ↑ Who would be first responder in your utopia?
My utopian first-responder would be constrained in his methods-- to tiptoe around the drunk guy's rights. For example, what if the cops had to ride-around with a public defender? The drunk guy could choose to accept or waive the defender's help. But he would at least know that there was someone on-his-side with eyes on the situation. Heck, the defender could be on a small screen strapped to the cop's chest... monitoring remotely via bodycam/ able to talk to the drunk via speakers. Or maybe a bodycam isn't enough... maybe there needs to be a COPS-style ridealong camera-guy, to make sure the police are included in the camera-shot.
That's how I initially saw it reported, too. Maybe so. But the video I saw seemed to show the car in a parking-lot spot.No, he was driving around so plastered he passed out while ordering drive-thru.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
You seem to be condoning or trivializing drunk driving here.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: ↑
[/quote]
The seriousness of drunk-driving doesn't justify a defective response.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
John D wrote: ↑ Well.... I am defeated. It is time to hunker down. I am pretty much hating everyone anyway.... so let the fucker burn. Perhaps something will come from this, but I don't care enough to fight.
Below is a part of an email sent from my HR department. My public and private speech can clearly get me fired. I have no doubt that anyone and everyone will be made an example of. Today I will delete any Facebook accounts with my coworkers. I will never post on Facebook again.... except for my hobby sites (pictures of miniatures and games and such).
Just let it all burn. Don't care.
As a reminder: Any conduct (including actions, writings, statements, as well as postings, comments and other communications) by
employees whether on-duty or off-duty that promotes, supports, or condones harassment, discrimination, disparagement, or violence
related to an individual’s race, religion, national origin, gender or other protected status will not be tolerated. This type of conduct
undermines our ability to work together with mutual respect and dignity. Every employee is reminded to consider this Company
expectation and must understand that serious consequences will result from violation.
Remember, it's not discrimination if you cast your net really really wide :
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
My employer sent an email today announcing that they have an internal web page with useful resources on topics including microaggressions and systemic racism. I haven't looked. My fear is that they don't know what they are in for and are just trying to be "on the right side of history". Hopefully it won;t end the way Evergreen College did.John D wrote: ↑ Well.... I am defeated. It is time to hunker down. I am pretty much hating everyone anyway.... so let the fucker burn. Perhaps something will come from this, but I don't care enough to fight.
Below is a part of an email sent from my HR department. My public and private speech can clearly get me fired. I have no doubt that anyone and everyone will be made an example of. Today I will delete any Facebook accounts with my coworkers. I will never post on Facebook again.... except for my hobby sites (pictures of miniatures and games and such).
Just let it all burn. Don't care.
As a reminder: Any conduct (including actions, writings, statements, as well as postings, comments and other communications) by
employees whether on-duty or off-duty that promotes, supports, or condones harassment, discrimination, disparagement, or violence
related to an individual’s race, religion, national origin, gender or other protected status will not be tolerated. This type of conduct
undermines our ability to work together with mutual respect and dignity. Every employee is reminded to consider this Company
expectation and must understand that serious consequences will result from violation.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
What is the easiest way to cook an egg - with the least amount of fuss and cleaning up?
And is there a gadget to to it?
Yes, I'm pre-emptively ruling out a micro-wave.
I suppose it might come down to a pot of boiling water.
And is there a gadget to to it?
Yes, I'm pre-emptively ruling out a micro-wave.
I suppose it might come down to a pot of boiling water.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
If you are talking hard boiled, then something like this. They are cheap and they work fairly well:
https://bydash.com/products/rapid-egg-cooker
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0173/ ... 1588278572
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Natalie Reed calls Ophelia Benson a "fucking dumbass" responding to Ophelia saying, "People who ejaculate don't get to tell women what we can call ourselves."
"Preferred pronoun is a brick through the window"
"I and many other trans women CANNOT ejaculate as it so happens!!"
Hmmmm
"Preferred pronoun is a brick through the window"
"I and many other trans women CANNOT ejaculate as it so happens!!"
Hmmmm
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
http://www.GrannyCinema.com/en/search/squirter/justinvacula wrote: ↑ ...Ophelia saying, "People who ejaculate don't get to tell women what we can call ourselves."...
:cdc:
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
That does not seem like a link I want to click
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Service Dog wrote: ↑That's how I initially saw it reported, too. Maybe so. But the video I saw seemed to show the car in a parking-lot spot.No, he was driving around so plastered he passed out while ordering drive-thru.
Here's the body-cam footage:
He was still passed out in the car in the drive-thru lineup when cops arrived. They directed him to turn the car into a parking space, which was probably their biggest by-the-book error, since if he chose that moment to flee in the car, something worse could easily have resulted.
His rights in the current non-utopian situation are those of a man who police have detained under clear probable cause for violating a law to initiate an interrogation, and police fully respected his rights in this process, even ascertaining that he didn't need medical attention before proceeding. Once arrested, a much broader set of rights kick in, but the guy didn't allow that to happen. Not liking a duly passed law doesn't mean police enforcing that law are a new gestapo. Part of being a civilized member of a free democratic society is realizing there will be laws passed you don't like, and that doesn't make your society a dictatorship. The choices are to obey the law or be willing to non-violently accept the punishment for breaking that law.Service Dog wrote: ↑Before we propose a utopian solution-- we need to correctly diagnose the status-quo problem. Right now-- the police sent to that Wendy's parking lot come armed with legal powers befitting a dictatorship ruling-over serfs-with-no-rights. Not a nation of free men with inalienable rights. It's not effective to fight those cops at the level of struggling against being handcuffed & grabbing a taser. But is rightful to fight them-- and the system which empowers them-- at some level.Matt Cavanaugh wrote: ↑ Who would be first responder in your utopia?
My utopian first-responder would be constrained in his methods-- to tiptoe around the drunk guy's rights. For example, what if the cops had to ride-around with a public defender? The drunk guy could choose to accept or waive the defender's help. But he would at least know that there was someone on-his-side with eyes on the situation. Heck, the defender could be on a small screen strapped to the cop's chest... monitoring remotely via bodycam/ able to talk to the drunk via speakers. Or maybe a bodycam isn't enough... maybe there needs to be a COPS-style ridealong camera-guy, to make sure the police are included in the camera-shot.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Seeing the longer video, I agree, it clearly shows the guy guilty of DUI.jugheadnaut wrote: ↑ His rights in the current non-utopian situation are those of a man who police have detained under clear probable cause for violating a law to initiate an interrogation, and police fully respected his rights in this process, even ascertaining that he didn't need medical attention before proceeding. Once arrested, a much broader set of rights kick in, but the guy didn't allow that to happen. Not liking a duly passed law doesn't mean police enforcing that law are a new gestapo. Part of being a civilized member of a free democratic society is realizing there will be laws passed you don't like, and that doesn't make your society a dictatorship.
I think the police followed the official procedure, did as they were taught.
But you're missing the point, by reducing my position to "not liking" a law.
Do you agree that there are _some_ criteria-- which would indeed render a society the equivalent of a 'new gestapo' or 'dictatorship'?
I'm saying we've deteriorated into that kind of shithole. Not in every-single police encounter-- but often-enough to have abandoned the trust of the public.
That's clearly an incomplete list of choices.The choices are to obey the law or be willing to non-violently accept the punishment for breaking that law.
=
Here's a blog & photo-essay... showing how the NYPD have taken-over entire blocks, to park their personal vehicles. Barricades, parking on sidewalks... I posted about the longstanding problem, last week. It has only gotten worse: They're routinely behaving as if they're Above The Law.
Welcome to the FPAZ! Fucking Police Autonomous Zones.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/15/ ... -solitude/
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
There are criteria that would render our society under cops Gestapo-like, but we're nothing like it. First and foremost the Gestapo operated with public approval, and our cops are generally disliked by the public and often hated. They've earned it gradually over the years. The Gestapo had nowhere near the manpower to do what they did. They relied primarily on public denouncement. There are crime fighting public organizations and cop boot lickers, but the two (Gestapo/US cops) don't compare.Service Dog wrote: ↑ Do you agree that there are _some_ criteria-- which would indeed render a society the equivalent of a 'new gestapo' or 'dictatorship'?
I'm saying we've deteriorated into that kind of shithole. Not in every-single police encounter-- but often-enough to have abandoned the trust of the public.
The cop experience differs greatly by race. While we've never been a police state as compared to the fascist Gestapo police state, I can see how if you're a young black male it could seem similar.
US cops have gotten themselves where they are today by a gradual accretion of decades of public contempt, on the job boredom, etc. "Cop culture" wasn't built in a day, but it's starting to look like it might be torn down that fast. Good riddance.
And yes, the bad apple theory is valid. There are good cops and bad cops. But bad cops can do so much damage and gain so much notoriety that it hardly matters.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Somehow this 1945 academy award winning documentary seems appropriate:
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Jugheadnaut is the one who mentioned 'gestapo'-- but according to Jug's comment-- not-even the actual gestapo were the gestapo. By Jug's criteria, the gestapo were merely enforcing 'duly passed laws' in a democracy. I wasn't trying to smear the cops with Godwin name-calling. I was asking Jugheadnaut to acknowledge there is some point where cops-- 'good apples' doing their jobs competently-- are nonetheless executing an unjust program.Hunt wrote: ↑
The cop experience differs greatly by race. While we've never been a police state as compared to the fascist Gestapo police state, I can see how if you're a young black male it could seem similar.
US cops have gotten themselves where they are today by a gradual accretion of decades of public contempt, on the job boredom, etc. "Cop culture" wasn't built in a day, but it's starting to look like it might be torn down that fast. Good riddance.
And yes, the bad apple theory is valid. There are good cops and bad cops. But bad cops can do so much damage and gain so much notoriety that it hardly matters.
=
One thing that's often unclear-- even in my use of the word 'unjust' in the previous sentence-- is the gap between what's 'unjust' in a philosophical letter-of-the-law sense. And what's considered unjust-- in the minds & mushy-feelings of the citizenry-- so that police lose the Consent Of The Governed. Without that consent, the people will be ungovernable. Arming the police with more aggressive leeway & weapons will just make the conflict more bloody.
The example I gave in the previous post was the photos of cops parking their personal cars on sidewalks & in a playground.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/15/ ... -solitude/
Even if good-apple cops can point to some justly-obtained procedure by-which they obtained authorization to ignore the parking laws which apply to the rest of us... if the public perceives that cops parking their cars that-way is unfair... then people will chafe against submitting to cops' authority.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I agree Dog - the problem is that the cops don't have consent to be governed by black people. Blacks, in general, do not consent to be governed.... period. It is not just the cops they hate.
But - the solution to this problem is unclear. A few police reforms will not move the needle. What might move the needle is to let blacks burn everything down and then realize how shitty it is to have everything burned down.
Most Detroiters are a bit more civilized these days.... enough to know they don't want shit burned down. Of course, Detroit has a super high crime rate. Black folks do more crime in general and Detroit is almost entirely black. But.... the people of Detroit don't drag their mayor and police chief for stopping riots. To this degree, Detroiters have agreed to be governed. Now, I am not saying the blacks of Detroit are special.... they still have an honor culture and protect people from police for crimes. Black culture allows for a great deal of crime that is forgivable.
There may be no intelligent solutions to this right now. It has to burn. Stay out of the way so you don't suffer too much in a personal way.
But - the solution to this problem is unclear. A few police reforms will not move the needle. What might move the needle is to let blacks burn everything down and then realize how shitty it is to have everything burned down.
Most Detroiters are a bit more civilized these days.... enough to know they don't want shit burned down. Of course, Detroit has a super high crime rate. Black folks do more crime in general and Detroit is almost entirely black. But.... the people of Detroit don't drag their mayor and police chief for stopping riots. To this degree, Detroiters have agreed to be governed. Now, I am not saying the blacks of Detroit are special.... they still have an honor culture and protect people from police for crimes. Black culture allows for a great deal of crime that is forgivable.
There may be no intelligent solutions to this right now. It has to burn. Stay out of the way so you don't suffer too much in a personal way.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Reminds me a joke from the USSR:
Two policemen were walking along the road. One turns to the other and says:
"What do you think of the government".
The other policeman thinks quickly and responds:
"The same as you, comrade!"
The first policemen replies,
"I'm sorry, I have to arrest you for sedition."
Two policemen were walking along the road. One turns to the other and says:
"What do you think of the government".
The other policeman thinks quickly and responds:
"The same as you, comrade!"
The first policemen replies,
"I'm sorry, I have to arrest you for sedition."
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I suspect that it would be a struggle to find enough candidates for the job who exhibit both the required stomach for physical violence and compassion. Much as I'd like to be wrong, I think you're always going to have to put up with some hard men cops if you don't want an ineffectual service. The police are not your friends, they are there primarily to apprehend offenders and that inevitably leads to them viewing almost everyone as a potential customer. That said, police culture looks to have struck the wrong balance between pragmatism and respect for the citizenry. There are a few too many cops wandering about whose priority seems to be maintaining a 100% argument win record and engaging in Kafkaesque justificatory bullshit for messing with the public. The latter being a favourite of the UK police, the "if you haven't got anything to hide why won't you let me question you without a valid reason" scenario in particular.Hunt wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:18 amThere are criteria that would render our society under cops Gestapo-like, but we're nothing like it. First and foremost the Gestapo operated with public approval, and our cops are generally disliked by the public and often hated. They've earned it gradually over the years. The Gestapo had nowhere near the manpower to do what they did. They relied primarily on public denouncement. There are crime fighting public organizations and cop boot lickers, but the two (Gestapo/US cops) don't compare.Service Dog wrote: ↑ Do you agree that there are _some_ criteria-- which would indeed render a society the equivalent of a 'new gestapo' or 'dictatorship'?
I'm saying we've deteriorated into that kind of shithole. Not in every-single police encounter-- but often-enough to have abandoned the trust of the public.
The cop experience differs greatly by race. While we've never been a police state as compared to the fascist Gestapo police state, I can see how if you're a young black male it could seem similar.
US cops have gotten themselves where they are today by a gradual accretion of decades of public contempt, on the job boredom, etc. "Cop culture" wasn't built in a day, but it's starting to look like it might be torn down that fast. Good riddance.
And yes, the bad apple theory is valid. There are good cops and bad cops. But bad cops can do so much damage and gain so much notoriety that it hardly matters.
As to the black issue, the elephant in the room is always the inner city education system. Until the left stops labeling effective enforcement of discipline and the law in deprived area schools as racist, those schools are going to keep churning out violent criminals. White guilt poisons everything. IMO what the US needs right now is a president with the balls of Trump and a bit more polish.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Thank goodness not all conferences got the woke-agram on diversity.
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- Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 9:09 pm
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I certainly do agree that it's possible for police action to be classified as tyranical, and little makes me more viscerally angry than police misconduct. However, I don't think we've reached the point where a nationwide toggle switch has been engaged and police should no longer be judged by whether they acted in accordance with their duty and training and instead judged by whether an adverse outcome could have been theoretically avoided.Service Dog wrote: ↑ Do you agree that there are _some_ criteria-- which would indeed render a society the equivalent of a 'new gestapo' or 'dictatorship'?
I'm saying we've deteriorated into that kind of shithole. Not in every-single police encounter-- but often-enough to have abandoned the trust of the public.
More fully stated:Service Dog wrote: ↑That's clearly an incomplete list of choices.The choices are to obey the law or be willing to non-violently accept the punishment for breaking that law.
The legitimate choices are to obey the law or be willing to non-violently accept the punishment for breaking that law. Those making other choices should be well advised of the strong possibility of a forceful response.
There seem to be two separate issues here. One is the longstanding issue of professional courtesy between police officers that results in them being functionally immune from minor traffic and parking violations. I'm torn on this one. On the one hand, it's a very cheap perk of the position, and these types of violations are more about revenue generation than public safety. On the other, police immunity from the laws they are charged with enforcing is obviously pernicious.Service Dog wrote: ↑
Here's a blog & photo-essay... showing how the NYPD have taken-over entire blocks, to park their personal vehicles. Barricades, parking on sidewalks... I posted about the longstanding problem, last week. It has only gotten worse: They're routinely behaving as if they're Above The Law.
Welcome to the FPAZ! Fucking Police Autonomous Zones.
https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/15/ ... -solitude/
The other issue is giving police broad power to set security perimeters during times of riots. This seems legitimate as long as it's eventually subject to review with potential punitive action from a civilian authority, but I'm open to arguments that there is a better way.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
No, I don't think pre-WW2 Nazi Germany was a democracy. Even if it is conceded that the initial election that brought the Nazis to power was democratic, what followed immediately, including the formation of the Gestapo itself, was the dissolution of democracy. My use of 'gestapo' was my characterization of police under your statement that 'the police sent to that Wendy's parking lot come armed with legal powers befitting a dictatorship ruling-over serfs-with-no-rights', which I'll stand by.Service Dog wrote: ↑
Jugheadnaut is the one who mentioned 'gestapo'-- but according to Jug's comment-- not-even the actual gestapo were the gestapo. By Jug's criteria, the gestapo were merely enforcing 'duly passed laws' in a democracy. I wasn't trying to smear the cops with Godwin name-calling. I was asking Jugheadnaut to acknowledge there is some point where cops-- 'good apples' doing their jobs competently-- are nonetheless executing an unjust program.
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Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
Here's where we disagree: In the Central-Park-Birdwatcher-vs.-Racist-Karen Case... I said it was a mistake to think the only bad outcome-- would have been if a trigger-happy 'bad apple' racist cop showed-up & shot the black guy.jugheadnaut wrote: ↑ I don't think we've reached the point where a nationwide toggle switch has been engaged and police should no longer be judged by whether they acted in accordance with their duty and training
If a completely-professional cop showed up-- followed his duty & training-- and "Believed Women" (as demanded by the Duluth Model and the Violence Against Women Act) and detained the guy, momentarily cuffed him, put him in the back of a copcar for a few minutes, demanded his ID, radioed to see if he had any outstanding warrants... while not treating the woman the exact-same way... that-alone is an egregious abuse of police power... by the woman. The cops are that woman's proxies-- her personal thugs-- giving a dude a hard time without cause. If it's necessary to restrain the guy until the cops sort-out what's going on/ then it's also necessary to restrain the woman. Until they find-out what's going on, they don't know which is perp or victim.
But-- I don't blame the individual street cop-- just-like I wouldn't blame a police dog for biting someone it was sent to bite. The cop is just the instrument of a broken system.
Unfortunately for the beat cop & the dog... their lack of sole culpability doesn't void the citizen's right to fight back right-here-right-now against the fangs which are biting us.
Re: You is all a bunch of poofs!
I recently read "Black Rednecks & White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell. He makes the point that "black culture" is really redneck culture. It makes sense to me. Police interactions with blacks are often similar to the YouTube videos of police interactions with "sovereign citizens". As you say they do not consent to be governed by the police, and the interactions end up with a violent confrontation. Most of the sovereign citizens look to me like rednecks.John D wrote: ↑ I agree Dog - the problem is that the cops don't have consent to be governed by black people. Blacks, in general, do not consent to be governed.... period. It is not just the cops they hate.
But - the solution to this problem is unclear. A few police reforms will not move the needle. What might move the needle is to let blacks burn everything down and then realize how shitty it is to have everything burned down.
Most Detroiters are a bit more civilized these days.... enough to know they don't want shit burned down. Of course, Detroit has a super high crime rate. Black folks do more crime in general and Detroit is almost entirely black. But.... the people of Detroit don't drag their mayor and police chief for stopping riots. To this degree, Detroiters have agreed to be governed. Now, I am not saying the blacks of Detroit are special.... they still have an honor culture and protect people from police for crimes. Black culture allows for a great deal of crime that is forgivable.
There may be no intelligent solutions to this right now. It has to burn. Stay out of the way so you don't suffer too much in a personal way.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XRDBYE/re ... TF8&btkr=1