Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

Old subthreads
SM12
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9781

Post by SM12 »

Thanks for the useful , informative reply,

Kirbmarc
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9782

Post by Kirbmarc »

James Caruthers wrote:
SM12 wrote:If something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, can we be sure it is not a transchicken?

What is the difference between the more extreme transwomen dogmas and the Catholic position on transubstantiation?

I'm a bit ignorant of all of this.

Are there people who think a doctor should chop off a 13 year old boy's willy if he says he thinks he is a girl, or is that a position nobody holds?
It depends.

Hormones are more effective if taken earlier. So the earlier they administer them, the more likely the person will complete a transition and pass effectively.

But many people oppose giving hormones or surgery to the underage because teenagers and children often don't know what they want. Their brains are still developing until around 25, right?

I think further research is needed on the effects of these changes over long term. It might be that the least harmful method is to perform surgery or hormone therapy early on (for mental and emotional health) or it might be that the best method is to wait until adulthood (on the odds they change their minds.)

I wouldn't presume to know what the consensus is because it seems to be research is ongoing. Widespread awareness of transgender issues as something other than sexual fetish is a relatively recent phenomenon, imo.

As long as someone isn't deliberately being an asshole, like Shapiro (who played his game well, fair play to him) then I don't think it's fair to castigate that person for merely holding an opinion about transpeople not being "real." IMO it depends how they mean the word "real" because many transpeople will acknowledge they are not biologically their ideal gender. But that doesn't mean they don't deserve rights and human dignity.
To be safe, for now, sine we don't know much and some people apparently "detransition" I'd say that it's best to wait until adulthood, just to be on the safe side.

I also think (but this is just an opinion, albeit one with some, non conclusive evidence backing it) that not all people who currently identify as trans have real gender dysphoria, and that some of them might be having a sexual fetish.

Of course even people with a sexual fetish deserve rights and human dignity like everybody else, but it's important to understand that not all people who identify with a label have the same psychological features.

Suet Cardigan
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9783

Post by Suet Cardigan »

Søren Lilholt wrote:
feathers wrote:
CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:I have a love-hate relationship with that movie. But I hate when they dub over that metallic "shwing" sound when a sword (katana in this case) is drawn. Only sabres with all-metal scabbards make that noise, and not many of them. Fuckin' stereotypes.
It's not worse than spaceships saying 'whoosh'- in space.
As someone who has scored music/SFX for a few films (there's no money in it, don't bother) all I can say is that we know it's wrong when we're doing it, and we do it anyway.
I don't mind movies having sound in space. It's just a convention. You might as well watch a movie and say "Where's that music coming from?"

Brive1987
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9784

Post by Brive1987 »

No effort required. But historically emblematic. Thank you FtB

http://i.imgur.com/n3oAXtB.jpg

John D
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Location: Detroit, MI. USA

Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9785

Post by John D »

feathers wrote:
Karmakin wrote:
Spike13 wrote:Well I think it depends on how you view PZ.

Was he being a disingenuous prick posing as the white knight of the downtrodden while he banned anyone who raised inconvenient questions and trying to bully his way into a leadership position of the A/S movement.

Or was he honestly that blind and clueless to believe that everyone who disagreed were secretly misogynists/rape apologists/Trans bigots/racists.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. He latched onto sexual harassment in the A/S movement as a means to project himself into the spotlight. The ensuring drama gave his site good hits. Once he was forced to abandon reason for dogma he set a course that he found he couldn't reverse.
[...]
I have to say, I largely think this is the latter. With virtually everybody involved. Which is why, speaking for myself I try to keep these things as depersonalized as possible, as I think it's the culture and not the individual that is to blame. Now, I'm not one to lecture people who see things a different way. At least I try not to. If you want to personalize it, go right ahead. It's just not what I personally believe.
[...]
And once people find themselves out of the tribe, the scales generally fall away VERY fast. (The question is how fast will they be this time..will it be any different? I predict no)
My take on PZ is, that he is mostly convinced of the righteousness of his positions: women and minorities like blacks are historically marginalised, and their angry lashing out to their arch enemies (men and police, respectively) is fully justified, to the point where neither enemy can do any good, ever. They can at best hope not to be too hazardous.

So when he suddenly found himself in a sphere of influence (Pharyngula once was popular and admired!), while at the same time his career as a revolutionary biologist horseman/writer petered out, it was only logical to exploit that road. I don't even think it was a conscious decision.

I agree that those scales will now fall off, but what will remain is a very disillusioned, embittered, old Paul Myers. My prediction, on which you shouldn't place your bets, is that he will drop the more controversial topics from his blog and continue with Pharyngula redux on Scienceblogs, or even withdraw from blogging altogether.
I think PZ is a true believer. He became famous in atheist circles when he publicly (or at least on the internet), smashed a bunch of communion wafers. This was at the time when being a mean atheist was super popular. He was catapulted to atheist bench-warmer status just behind the four horsemen. I suspect he felt he was uniquely gifted and could do some real good. Hell, he was AHA's humanist of the year. He is surrounded by needy defectives and feels that he a their noble champion. Who is the enemy? Guys like me. White men who work 50 hours a week, make enough to have a decent house, and pay plenty of taxes.

James Caruthers
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9786

Post by James Caruthers »

It's hard to say conclusively that holding off on hormones would be the right choice in all cases. Not that I'm implying you believe that, kirbmarc. I think in some cases, the mental and emotional anguish at going through the wrong gender's puberty in a public school environment might cause more long-term damage to the psyche than to allow them to begin transitioning.

Similarly to how denying one's homosexuality and remaining in a heterosexual marriage seems to have long-term consequences mentally and emotionally for many of the tortured souls who endure it.

But I don't know. This is a matter for the medical community. At one time, being homosexual was thought to be a mental illness. It's likely that the science will produce comparable results for transsexuality, a few SJW asshole trans people notwithstanding.

Being trans, after all, is no certainty the person won't also be a fucking asshole or an attention whore. :D

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... d-unknown/

Guest

Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9787

Post by Guest »

Easy J wrote:Yes...what I meant to say was: Holy fuck this is glorious! This is like several months of baboon drama crammed into a couple of days. Five flaming clown cars are speeding around on their bare metal rims & crashing into each other for my amusement while I eat ice cream & laugh.
It's like Mad Max. Would be PZ be Immortan Joe?

Ape+lust
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9788

Post by Ape+lust »

Make necrophilia a freeze peach issue (Hey Turkey Moose, I'm fucking your dead Mom in the pooper! Have a Photoshop!), and Tauriq will want NATO and nukes involved. Harsh words without consequence turn him into crybaby Hitler.

Kirbmarc
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9789

Post by Kirbmarc »

James Caruthers wrote:It's hard to say conclusively that holding off on hormones would be the right choice in all cases. Not that I'm implying you believe that, kirbmarc. I think in some cases, the mental and emotional anguish at going through the wrong gender's puberty in a public school environment might cause more long-term damage to the psyche than to allow them to begin transitioning.

Similarly to how denying one's homosexuality and remaining in a heterosexual marriage seems to have long-term consequences mentally and emotionally for many of the tortured souls who endure it.

But I don't know. This is a matter for the medical community. At one time, being homosexual was thought to be a mental illness. It's likely that the science will produce comparable results for transsexuality, a few SJW asshole trans people notwithstanding.

Being trans, after all, is no certainty the person won't also be a fucking asshole or an attention whore. :D

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... d-unknown/
I don't know, either. I'm actually completely open to the idea of hormone therapy at the appropriate age, it's surgery on minors that feels too much. I guess it's more of a case by case kind of thing than a general rule, though.

One thing that I don't like about some SJW trans activists is that they insist that surgical gender reassignment is The Way, that it always saves lives and that it's always the best solution and if you have any kind of doubts you're a disgusting bigot. With the state of research being not incredibly conclusive as it is, especially not for all cases which are labeled "trans-genderism", I feel that some doubts are justified, especially for minors.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9790

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Suet Cardigan wrote:
Søren Lilholt wrote:
feathers wrote:snip some idiot

It's not worse than spaceships saying 'whoosh'- in space.
As someone who has scored music/SFX for a few films (there's no money in it, don't bother) all I can say is that we know it's wrong when we're doing it, and we do it anyway.
I don't mind movies having sound in space. It's just a convention. You might as well watch a movie and say "Where's that music coming from?"
I'm not consistent. A TIE fighter going by without that vacuum cleaner noise just wouldn't be right.

Lsuoma
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9791

Post by Lsuoma »

Brive1987 wrote:I guess that makes her "Ophie-no friends" now.

http://i.imgur.com/dVNJpaq.jpg
It's all about the Oaf. All the time.

DaveDodo007
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9792

Post by DaveDodo007 »

MacGruberKnows wrote:
Badger3k wrote:
John Greg wrote:Hey, why the fuck are FTB people all so bloody unhealthy? I mean, the list is almost endless: PeeZus gets around about 5 or 6 colds and flues per year, TwoCows has a long list of autoimmune dysfunctions, Miri is certifiabley nutso, Ashly Miller is narcoleptic times ten, InZvanity is all sorts of damaged from physical to emotionaal to psychological to otherwise, LousyCanuck is a few decades early on male pattern baldness (I guess that's 'cause gender differences are cultural and his culture likes shiny domes?), Zinnia Jones is ... well, WTF is Zinnia Jones anyway?, Benson is a sad lonely old crone who cannot find her way home even with a searchlight, map, and GPS, Richard "Spunky Monkey Intellectual Artillery" Carrier is a sex maniac and perverted semen fetishist ... I mean the list just goes on and on and on and on. Did these people all grow up stuck inside some kind of toxic waste dump? I mean WTF?

:auto-ambulance:
Well, when you think this is a great idea for a topic Is Necrophilia Wrong? (archive link).

The summary in the google search result was
Writer Tauriq Moosa argues that our objections to necrophilia come down to primal disgust, and that most ethical arguments against are logically untenable.
I wonder if he likes sparkly vampires, or just the trans-living (or is it trans-dead)?
Y'know, before the fucking SJW's and feminists invaded the Atheist/Skeptic space there were no discussions about fucking the dead. Look at the comments at the place by the SJW/feminist crazies, sign consent forms for people to fuck our bodies when were dead like an organ donor consent form. Good lord I hate these lunatics. Polyamorism, necrophilia, sploogie semen fetishes. What a sick bunch of creeps. and they are doing it all under the banner of atheism/skepticism.

Like one guy said over there, those 'atheists' need Jesus. Fuckers. Now if I tell someone that I am an atheist they will reply 'Oh you're a faithless piece of shit who sprays semen all over the bedroom and on women's faces and you fuck your dead mother's corpse that you keep in a freezer.'

Fuckers.
:lol: Wait, this makes me sad.

Tigzy
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9793

Post by Tigzy »

From the comments following Peez's 'We Aten't[sic] Dead' post:
raven

8 August 2015 at 2:54 am

Freethoughtblogs is far more powerful and important than Ed or PZ know or anyone else here for that matter.They are the leaders of the US No Religions movement.

1. When FTB’s went down due to the DDOS attack, I looked around for other similar websites.

2. There wasn’t much. Patheos has a fraction of the traffic of FTB’s and most of it is for…religion. Now that Ed Brayton is there, I finally visit it often.
Hahaaa - feelz before realz indeed. Alexa says:

Patheos: Global rank 1690, US rank 492, currently trending upwards
FTB: Global rank 28,529, US rank 7655, currently trending down- okay, tanking bigtime.

I'm guessing this dipshit is more impressed by duh bigger numberz, rather than what they actually mean.

CaptainFluffyBunny
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Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:39 am
Location: Somewhere in the pipes

Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9794

Post by CaptainFluffyBunny »

Shatterface wrote:Someone really ought to Tweet W***** about whether she supports TERFs and/or those who enable TERFs.
I think most of us are blocked. I'd set up another account, but she has tons of SJW mojo. She will probably ignore and let it pass.

jet_lagg
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9795

Post by jet_lagg »

Suet Cardigan wrote:
Søren Lilholt wrote:
feathers wrote:
It's not worse than spaceships saying 'whoosh'- in space.
As someone who has scored music/SFX for a few films (there's no money in it, don't bother) all I can say is that we know it's wrong when we're doing it, and we do it anyway.
I don't mind movies having sound in space. It's just a convention. You might as well watch a movie and say "Where's that music coming from?"
Ever heard of Dogme 95? Avante Garde filmmaking philosophy started by the pretentious wanker Lars Von Trier (who I actually like, but that's neither here nor there) which asks that very question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogme_95

Lsuoma
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9796

Post by Lsuoma »

Tigzy wrote:From the comments following Peez's 'We Aten't[sic] Dead' post:
raven

8 August 2015 at 2:54 am

Freethoughtblogs is far more powerful and important than Ed or PZ know or anyone else here for that matter.They are the leaders of the US No Religions movement.

1. When FTB’s went down due to the DDOS attack Thimbledick's incompetence, I looked around for other similar websites.

2. There wasn’t much. Patheos has a fraction of the traffic of FTB’s and most of it is for…religion. Now that Ed Brayton is there, I finally visit it often.
Hahaaa - feelz before realz indeed. Alexa says:

Patheos: Global rank 1690, US rank 492, currently trending upwards
FTB: Global rank 28,529, US rank 7655, currently trending down- okay, tanking bigtime.

I'm guessing this dipshit is more impressed by duh bigger numberz, rather than what they actually mean.
FTFH

Ericb
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:20 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9797

Post by Ericb »

Tigzy wrote:From the comments following Peez's 'We Aten't[sic] Dead' post:
raven

8 August 2015 at 2:54 am

Freethoughtblogs is far more powerful and important than Ed or PZ know or anyone else here for that matter.They are the leaders of the US No Religions movement.

1. When FTB’s went down due to the DDOS attack, I looked around for other similar websites.

2. There wasn’t much. Patheos has a fraction of the traffic of FTB’s and most of it is for…religion. Now that Ed Brayton is there, I finally visit it often.
Hahaaa - feelz before realz indeed. Alexa says:

Patheos: Global rank 1690, US rank 492, currently trending upwards
FTB: Global rank 28,529, US rank 7655, currently trending down- okay, tanking bigtime.

I'm guessing this dipshit is more impressed by duh bigger numberz, rather than what they actually mean.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationmin ... nister.jpg

James Caruthers
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Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:50 pm

Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9798

Post by James Caruthers »

Kirbmarc wrote:
James Caruthers wrote:It's hard to say conclusively that holding off on hormones would be the right choice in all cases. Not that I'm implying you believe that, kirbmarc. I think in some cases, the mental and emotional anguish at going through the wrong gender's puberty in a public school environment might cause more long-term damage to the psyche than to allow them to begin transitioning.

Similarly to how denying one's homosexuality and remaining in a heterosexual marriage seems to have long-term consequences mentally and emotionally for many of the tortured souls who endure it.

But I don't know. This is a matter for the medical community. At one time, being homosexual was thought to be a mental illness. It's likely that the science will produce comparable results for transsexuality, a few SJW asshole trans people notwithstanding.

Being trans, after all, is no certainty the person won't also be a fucking asshole or an attention whore. :D

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... d-unknown/
I don't know, either. I'm actually completely open to the idea of hormone therapy at the appropriate age, it's surgery on minors that feels too much. I guess it's more of a case by case kind of thing than a general rule, though.

One thing that I don't like about some SJW trans activists is that they insist that surgical gender reassignment is The Way, that it always saves lives and that it's always the best solution and if you have any kind of doubts you're a disgusting bigot. With the state of research being not incredibly conclusive as it is, especially not for all cases which are labeled "trans-genderism", I feel that some doubts are justified, especially for minors.
Well, I don't really know much about how reversible hormone therapy is. But I have this instinctive aversion to irreparable surgery on minors when there's no immediate medical need (IE illness/injury.)

katamari Damassi
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9799

Post by katamari Damassi »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:
Skep tickle wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:I'm still working through the archive of that B&W thread and I have to say, so far, I'm liking Elizabeth Hungerford. That's bad, isn't it?
Tsk. There goes your chance at becoming an FTB blogger, Billie. (Until the fire sale, that is.)
Ha, "fire sale." Little Paul still has his ultimate weapon in the wings. Greg Laden. With that unleashed, he will show us scoundrels up for who we are. Scoundrels. Perhaps even ruffians or vagabonds. Something vaguely disreputable anyway.

Laden will be laden with mystery and cunning. Expect the worst.
They even have a name for it already: Laden With Venom! Make it happen PZ!

Shatterface
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9800

Post by Shatterface »

Is it 'reversing' hormone therapy or is it simply stopping taking hormones and allowing the body to reset itself?

jet_lagg
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9801

Post by jet_lagg »

SM12 wrote:Am I correct to think that a transwoman is somebody who knows they are a woman,but they are trapped inside a biologically female body?
Cursory searching online suggests it's a combination of psychological and biological factors, and I'm of the position that saying transgender people aren't "real" is an untenable argument.

There are a couple of transgender people in a FB atheist group I'm a part of, and they've never seemed like anything other than well-adjusted rational adults to me. They just happen to have gender dysphoria. Neither of them try to insist there's something magical going on. They know what sex organs they have, they're just not cool with it. So not cool they'd be willing to cut them off.

That's why I've argued here in the past it's not right to say trans people are delusional. Crazy people don't know they're crazy. I dated a girl once whose mother had schizophrenia. Once, ONCE, while she was on her meds, I got her to admit that maybe the virgin Mary's tri-fold revelation to her might just be a product of her mind and not real visitations from the divine. The transgender people I've known and interacted with online don't even approach that level of delusion.

jet_lagg
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9802

Post by jet_lagg »

Speaking of delusions, has anyone ever played video games long enough that you start to see the world in terms of the game controls? Went on a pretty epic bender yesterday while playing Archeage (volkisch, or gay if the filter is still on, is my handle, for anyone who plays). Woke up this morning at the mining quarry in Mahadevi with zero recollection of how I'd arrived there. Moments later, in real life, I spot the pigeon trainer on the adjacent building and think I'll go meet him by jumping through the window and double tapping space to open my glider.

Ape+lust
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9803

Post by Ape+lust »

Rebecca is talking about crowdfunding a $600,000 house. Because clearly, the chumps aren't tapped out yet. Plus, further annoying those you annoy is a swell reason for committing to a half million in debt.

http://imgur.com/w99amg3.png

Brive is the only one talking sense to her :lol: :lol:

http://imgur.com/2ziZS8K.png

SM12
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9804

Post by SM12 »

jet_lagg wrote:
SM12 wrote:Am I correct to think that a transwoman is somebody who knows they are a woman,but they are trapped inside a biologically female body?
Cursory searching online suggests it's a combination of psychological and biological factors, and I'm of the position that saying transgender people aren't "real" is an untenable argument.

There are a couple of transgender people in a FB atheist group I'm a part of, and they've never seemed like anything other than well-adjusted rational adults to me. They just happen to have gender dysphoria. Neither of them try to insist there's something magical going on. They know what sex organs they have, they're just not cool with it. So not cool they'd be willing to cut them off.

That's why I've argued here in the past it's not right to say trans people are delusional. Crazy people don't know they're crazy. I dated a girl once whose mother had schizophrenia. Once, ONCE, while she was on her meds, I got her to admit that maybe the virgin Mary's tri-fold revelation to her might just be a product of her mind and not real visitations from the divine. The transgender people I've known and interacted with online don't even approach that level of delusion.
If a transwoman is a woman who is trapped in a man's body, why is it wrong to say they have the body and brain of a man? The brain is part of the body after all.

But I feel I'm out of my depth here. As is Ophelia.

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9805

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

Ape+lust wrote:Rebecca is talking about crowdfunding a $600,000 house. Because clearly, the chumps aren't tapped out yet. Plus, further annoying those you annoy is a swell reason for committing to a half million in debt.

http://imgur.com/w99amg3.png
Did she light her joint with those 50 bucks? It sure isn't showing in that Kenyan family's donor list.

(maybe gofundme does take its time though - don't want to be uncharitable to Becka, do I)

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9806

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

Ah, sorry. Probably misunderstood the 'still debating' tweet...

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9807

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

CaptainFluffyBunny wrote:I'm not consistent. A TIE fighter going by without that vacuum cleaner noise just wouldn't be right.
Maybe have someone have a look at your vacuum cleaner?

I heard John D. is a technician or repairman or something

Skep tickle
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9808

Post by Skep tickle »

Picturing a mortgage lender's reaction to a Patreon account as a source of income on a $600K loan application...

SM12
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9809

Post by SM12 »

Skep tickle wrote:Picturing a mortgage lender's reaction to a Patreon account as a source of income on a $600K loan application...
I think she was hoping to pay cash.

Bhurzum
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9810

Post by Bhurzum »

jet_lagg wrote:Speaking of delusions, has anyone ever played video games long enough that you start to see the world in terms of the game controls? Went on a pretty epic bender yesterday while playing Archeage (volkisch, or gay if the filter is still on, is my handle, for anyone who plays). Woke up this morning at the mining quarry in Mahadevi with zero recollection of how I'd arrived there. Moments later, in real life, I spot the pigeon trainer on the adjacent building and think I'll go meet him by jumping through the window and double tapping space to open my glider.
Ah, I was lured into playing Archeage by a few friends. I done the whole alpha-beta-release fiasco, endured the land-grab (patron status = win) and enjoyed a few weeks of hectic PK shenanigans before our little group dissolved. I don't normally play MMO type games but was surprisingly addicted to AA. I even got myself a farmhouse (with small and large fields adjacent) and was becoming quite well known on my home server. Well known for all the wrong reasons!

Anyway, have a look at these vids, pretty funny although you'll only "get" them if you're an AA nut.

[youtube]JmFuma2WwE0[/youtube]

Love this next one. If you've not checked his channel out, you should watch Bike's AA content - he's madder than a sack of cats!

[youtube]Z6dHfTghtAA[/youtube]

Skep tickle
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9811

Post by Skep tickle »

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/ny ... rgery.html

NYT story, discusses considerations around medical (including surgical) treatments & transgender teens, including timing based on age, development, insurance coverage, etc.

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9812

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

Old_ones wrote:Incidentally, good job making a safe space for women PZ. We can tell from the page view demographics, that your tactics were exactly what was needed to build an inclusive a/s movement. Good job, brah!
Alexa's probably just misgendering the bunch. Can't really blame the algorithm
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jet_lagg
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9813

Post by jet_lagg »

SM12 wrote:
jet_lagg wrote: If a transwoman is a woman who is trapped in a man's body, why is it wrong to say they have the body and brain of a man? The brain is part of the body after all.

But I feel I'm out of my depth here. As is Ophelia.
I'd say most of it comes down to poetic vs literal wording and the confusion that arises afterward. Most people switch freely between different meanings of the same word, often in the space of a single conversation, and I see a lot of arguments arise because of it.

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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9814

Post by jet_lagg »

Bhurzum wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:Speaking of delusions, has anyone ever played video games long enough that you start to see the world in terms of the game controls? Went on a pretty epic bender yesterday while playing Archeage (volkisch, or gay if the filter is still on, is my handle, for anyone who plays). Woke up this morning at the mining quarry in Mahadevi with zero recollection of how I'd arrived there. Moments later, in real life, I spot the pigeon trainer on the adjacent building and think I'll go meet him by jumping through the window and double tapping space to open my glider.
Ah, I was lured into playing Archeage by a few friends. I done the whole alpha-beta-release fiasco, endured the land-grab (patron status = win) and enjoyed a few weeks of hectic PK shenanigans before our little group dissolved. I don't normally play MMO type games but was surprisingly addicted to AA. I even got myself a farmhouse (with small and large fields adjacent) and was becoming quite well known on my home server. Well known for all the wrong reasons!

Anyway, have a look at these vids, pretty funny although you'll only "get" them if you're an AA nut.

<snip>
Hahahaha. Thanks for that. Gamers have the greatest sense of humor. Or maybe the strangest sense of humor, and I'm just strange.

Also, Firran are the hottest things evar. Does that make me a furry?

Bhurzum
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9815

Post by Bhurzum »

jet_lagg wrote:Firran are the hottest things evar. Does that make me a furry?
Amongst other things, yeah I think it does... :D

http://40.media.tumblr.com/2be96156288a ... 1_1280.jpg

Also - Trigger warning - crazy man/cat penis alert!

jet_lagg
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9816

Post by jet_lagg »

Hahaha. Ah shit. I suppose I asked for that. :P

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9817

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

jet_lagg wrote:Speaking of delusions, has anyone ever played video games long enough that you start to see the world in terms of the game controls? Went on a pretty epic bender yesterday while playing Archeage (volkisch, or gay if the filter is still on, is my handle, for anyone who plays). Woke up this morning at the mining quarry in Mahadevi with zero recollection of how I'd arrived there. Moments later, in real life, I spot the pigeon trainer on the adjacent building and think I'll go meet him by jumping through the window and double tapping space to open my glider.
When I go on a bender, totally yes.
After one day-long session Fallout New Vegas I went out of the house and smiled when I saw a bottle cap lying on the ground. But when I saw it had a star on it I got really excited for a moment. I snapped out of it before picking it up but the urge was there. Kind of an unreal feeling :)
Same thing when I was used to hang out in DayZ and I was driving with my gf when we were going past a deer stand on the horizon...
I also occasionally dream of the games I play.

Of course it's much less common now that I have a job ;)

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9818

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

jet_lagg wrote:Also, Firran are the hottest things evar. Does that make me a furry?
Well, let's see what you recognize in these Rorschach inkblots...
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Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9819

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Peez saw nothing wrong in a man taking photos of himself fucking a dead squid. Is that necro-bestiality?

Billie from Ockham
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9820

Post by Billie from Ockham »

Kirbmarc wrote:Uhm, no. There's no need to argue for respect of someone's body because humans are "special" beings. A body is someone's possession, one can say someone's most intimate possession. Crimes that involve the body of a person are punished more severely than crimes against their property. Indeed the idea that rape is morally wrong stems from the idea that a person's body cannot be used without their consent.

As with all property it's one person's will that decides what has to be done with their body after their death. That's why you need forms to ask people if they're organ donors and doctors don't just go around and cut bodies to harvest organs without informing anyone (or if they do and are found out they're punished by the law).

So unless one gets the person's consent before their death having sex with their body isn't just "a violation of something thought sacred" but a violation of one person's presumed will.Looting a corpse is also morally and legally wrong, but since it's a crime against one's external property (not their bodies) it's less wrong than necrophilia.

Saying that a corpse "belong to nobody" is just as retarded as saying that a house "belongs to nobody" just because the owner dies. If Tauriq were right the laws about inheritance wouldn't exist and the first person who gets their hands on a dead person's possessions would be their owner. This is pretty absurd.
I agree that saying that a corpse belongs to nobody is wrong, but to whom it actually belongs - or, at least, the question of who has the last say on what happens to the corpse - varies from state to state in the US. In some states, the last wishes of the now-dead person are legally binding; in other states, they are not. But note that, even in the first case, the last wishes are binding on the designated agent or the state; it's not the corpse, itself, that has standing in enforcing the last wishes of the now-dead person.

Put another way: it seems clear (to me) that, in the US, the corpse does not "belong" to the dead person. Dead people can't own anything, so there is no real parallel between rape (of a live person) and any form of corpse abuse. Looting a corpse is just like any other form of theft, but the thief is stealing from the heirs, not the corpse. Other forms of corpse abuse are violations of rather silly laws which I see as being parallel to "blue laws." Yeah, disingenuous people can come up with reasons to treat a dead body as something special, just as they can come up with reasons to prohibit certain actions on Sunday, but these are just holes in the Church-and-State wall that were hollowed out years ago and haven't (yet) been filled in.

With that said, I wouldn't put it past Scalia and Thomas to declare that dead people are people....

Billie from Ockham
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9821

Post by Billie from Ockham »

jet_lagg wrote:
SM12 wrote:Am I correct to think that a transwoman is somebody who knows they are a woman,but they are trapped inside a biologically female body?
Cursory searching online suggests it's a combination of psychological and biological factors, and I'm of the position that saying transgender people aren't "real" is an untenable argument.
If you haven't already, I would suggest that you read the comments by Elizabeth Hungerford on B&W. When you have a dysphoria, either sex or gender, the prevailing view (especially among SJWs and trans* activists) is to alter the body (in the case of sex dysphoria) or label (gender dysphoria) to match the dysphoric's beliefs. As Hungerford points out, that might not be the best or most justifiable option. Her analogy to anorexia was excellent. When someone who is either normal weight or even too thin keeps saying that they are fat, are you going to alter their body or try to change their mind?

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9822

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

Billie from Ockham wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:
SM12 wrote:Am I correct to think that a transwoman is somebody who knows they are a woman,but they are trapped inside a biologically female body?
Cursory searching online suggests it's a combination of psychological and biological factors, and I'm of the position that saying transgender people aren't "real" is an untenable argument.
If you haven't already, I would suggest that you read the comments by Elizabeth Hungerford on B&W. When you have a dysphoria, either sex or gender, the prevailing view (especially among SJWs and trans* activists) is to alter the body (in the case of sex dysphoria) or label (gender dysphoria) to match the dysphoric's beliefs. As Hungerford points out, that might not be the best or most justifiable option. Her analogy to anorexia was excellent. When someone who is either normal weight or even too thin keeps saying that they are fat, are you going to alter their body or try to change their mind?
It's not a good analogy. There's just no body modification that makes a anorexic person stop starving themselves and thus ensures their survival. If there were, I wouldn't have a problem with that at least when 'changing their mind' wouldn't work.

German StrutBoatsman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9823

Post by German StrutBoatsman »

Billie from Ockham wrote:Yeah, disingenuous people can come up with reasons to treat a dead body as something special, just as they can come up with reasons to prohibit certain actions on Sunday, but these are just holes in the Church-and-State wall that were hollowed out years ago and haven't (yet) been filled in.
It's neither disingenious nor religious to have emotional attachment to bodies of loved ones or even to want to see the remnants of fellow human beings being treated with some respect.

It's maybe not fully rational but emotions and empathy are what sets us apart from machines and Steersman.

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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9824

Post by Sunder »

Tigzy wrote:From the comments following Peez's 'We Aten't[sic] Dead' post:
raven

8 August 2015 at 2:54 am

Freethoughtblogs is far more powerful and important than Ed or PZ know or anyone else here for that matter.They are the leaders of the US No Religions movement.

1. When FTB’s went down due to the DDOS attack, I looked around for other similar websites.

2. There wasn’t much. Patheos has a fraction of the traffic of FTB’s and most of it is for…religion. Now that Ed Brayton is there, I finally visit it often.
Hahaaa - feelz before realz indeed. Alexa says:

Patheos: Global rank 1690, US rank 492, currently trending upwards
FTB: Global rank 28,529, US rank 7655, currently trending down- okay, tanking bigtime.

I'm guessing this dipshit is more impressed by duh bigger numberz, rather than what they actually mean.
5/2 is technically a fraction.

Also, with regard to SJWs constantly trying to make things like necrophilia, bestiality, and pedophilia out to be "not so bad," I get the feeling that since they've successfully made consensual relationships with another adult human being as difficult as possible, they're probably just trying to find something they can still fuck.

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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9825

Post by Kirbmarc »

German StrutBoatsman wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:
jet_lagg wrote:
Cursory searching online suggests it's a combination of psychological and biological factors, and I'm of the position that saying transgender people aren't "real" is an untenable argument.
If you haven't already, I would suggest that you read the comments by Elizabeth Hungerford on B&W. When you have a dysphoria, either sex or gender, the prevailing view (especially among SJWs and trans* activists) is to alter the body (in the case of sex dysphoria) or label (gender dysphoria) to match the dysphoric's beliefs. As Hungerford points out, that might not be the best or most justifiable option. Her analogy to anorexia was excellent. When someone who is either normal weight or even too thin keeps saying that they are fat, are you going to alter their body or try to change their mind?
It's not a good analogy. There's just no body modification that makes a anorexic person stop starving themselves and thus ensures their survival. If there were, I wouldn't have a problem with that at least when 'changing their mind' wouldn't work.
If some people have a mismatch between their sex/gender self perception and their biological sex, if this mismatch can be best dealt with by surgical/hormonal reassignment which gives them a healthy body of the sex they perceive to be, then I think there is a very strong case for those people to receive a surgical sex change or hormonal therapy.

As German StrutBoatsman says, the analogy with anorexia in these cases doesn't work. Anorexic people feel fat even if they're walking skeletons.

The problem, at least, to me, it's not in all cases it's entirely clear whether hormonal therapy/surgery is the best treatment, especially because some of the people who call themselves transgender may not have gender dysphoria but other issues best dealt with other forms of therapy (I'm thinking, for example, about Sarah Butts/Nyberg, who seems to have a whole load of issues with sexuality and not simply gender dysphoria).

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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9826

Post by Shatterface »

Sunder wrote:Also, with regard to SJWs constantly trying to make things like necrophilia, bestiality, and pedophilia out to be "not so bad," I get the feeling that since they've successfully made consensual relationships with another adult human being as difficult as possible, they're probably just trying to find something they can still fuck.

It's like they heard the fundies objections to homosexuality - ''If we allow this they'll be fucking the corpses of children next!'' - and thought, ''Fuck it, why not?''

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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9827

Post by Søren Lilholt »

Parody Accountant wrote:You know who hasn't posted yet? The king of splash damage

http://i.imgur.com/2R3rd9o.png

I know his oversharing is completely unrelated to the TERF conversation. But right now she could totally use the semen thing against him if he posts anything.

He can't be the intellectual artillery that ftb needs right now. :(
:cdc:
Probably wise.

He's already on record saying he only likes to do it with cis women. And, given that Dickie can't even say good morning to the postman without refencing his sexual preferences, he'd immediately cause a shitstorm by admitting that he doesn't want to do...well, whatever it is a straight person is supposed to do with a trans woman even if they don't want to because otherwise it's transphobia.

I can see why he'd want to stay out of it, to be honest.

SM12
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9828

Post by SM12 »

Søren Lilholt wrote:
Parody Accountant wrote:You know who hasn't posted yet? The king of splash damage

http://i.imgur.com/2R3rd9o.png

I know his oversharing is completely unrelated to the TERF conversation. But right now she could totally use the semen thing against him if he posts anything.

He can't be the intellectual artillery that ftb needs right now. :(
:cdc:
Probably wise.

He's already on record saying he only likes to do it with cis women. And, given that Dickie can't even say good morning to the postman without refencing his sexual preferences, he'd immediately cause a shitstorm by admitting that he doesn't want to do...well, whatever it is a straight person is supposed to do with a trans woman even if they don't want to because otherwise it's transphobia.

I can see why he'd want to stay out of it, to be honest.
The standard you walk past is the standard you accept.

Søren Lilholt
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9829

Post by Søren Lilholt »

Spike13 wrote:
Crabman wrote:PZ's tirade against being misrepresented and not allowed to defend himself literally made me put my hands on my head and shake it in disbelief.

It just can't be possible for anyone to not have a moment of clarity at this point. What the fuck is going on in his mind? Is the vending machine of realizations permanently jammed up?

It's time for PZ to take a week off and just absorb the dissonance between his actions, his demands on others, and the way he himself demands to be treated.

Well I think it depends on how you view PZ.

Was he being a disingenuous prick [...]

<snip>
I'll stop you there.

Yes. Yes he was.

jet_lagg
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9830

Post by jet_lagg »

German StrutBoatsman wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:
jet_lagg wrote: Cursory searching online suggests it's a combination of psychological and biological factors, and I'm of the position that saying transgender people aren't "real" is an untenable argument.
If you haven't already, I would suggest that you read the comments by Elizabeth Hungerford on B&W. When you have a dysphoria, either sex or gender, the prevailing view (especially among SJWs and trans* activists) is to alter the body (in the case of sex dysphoria) or label (gender dysphoria) to match the dysphoric's beliefs. As Hungerford points out, that might not be the best or most justifiable option. Her analogy to anorexia was excellent. When someone who is either normal weight or even too thin keeps saying that they are fat, are you going to alter their body or try to change their mind?
It's not a good analogy. There's just no body modification that makes a anorexic person stop starving themselves and thus ensures their survival. If there were, I wouldn't have a problem with that at least when 'changing their mind' wouldn't work.
Therein lies the rub. I've seen studies that show trans people are at greater risk of suicide after surgery. If that's accurate, the anorexic analogy is apt. The individual needs to come to accept themselves as they are, rather than modifying how they are to match what they think they should be.

feathers
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9831

Post by feathers »

German StrutBoatsman wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:If you haven't already, I would suggest that you read the comments by Elizabeth Hungerford on B&W. When you have a dysphoria, either sex or gender, the prevailing view (especially among SJWs and trans* activists) is to alter the body (in the case of sex dysphoria) or label (gender dysphoria) to match the dysphoric's beliefs. As Hungerford points out, that might not be the best or most justifiable option. Her analogy to anorexia was excellent. When someone who is either normal weight or even too thin keeps saying that they are fat, are you going to alter their body or try to change their mind?
It's not a good analogy. There's just no body modification that makes a anorexic person stop starving themselves and thus ensures their survival. If there were, I wouldn't have a problem with that at least when 'changing their mind' wouldn't work.
But do we have convincing evidence that a sex change operation ensures the transsexual's well-being in the long run?

Without that certainty, gender reassignment is a modern day lobotomy, or similar mutilation in order to prevent masturbation- even if voluntary. I can easily imagine that we'll look back at this in thirty years time, and wonder in shame how we could let people do that to themselves.

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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9832

Post by Steersman »

Andrew: Of maybe some interest to you in particular, although I think you’ve indicated you are on the other side of the pond (inlet):
Cougar shot after trying to enter North Vancouver home

A skinny juvenile cougar was shot dead in Deep Cove by conservation officers Thursday evening after it clawed at a door and tried to get inside a home.

“And it would just not leave and was constantly pressing against the door handle,” said conservation officer Todd Hunter, of a report given by the homeowner. ….

John Greg
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9833

Post by John Greg »

comhcinc said:
If you read what JG said again it really comes off (at least to me) as some elitist sounding bullshit. If his point was saying, like you, that they are talking about it for some type of cred it would be one thing, but that isn't what he is saying. He is just point out, at least in his mind, their flaws.
Actually, I was indeed saying that they are talking about it for some type of cred, or so it seems to me. I just didn't think I needed to spell it out; I was not expecting a John Morales type of pedant to fly into the comment. I thought, obviously erroneously in your case, that that would be clear ... you know, implicit irony, or something like that.

And the second implicit point being that here at the Pit, we (except for French Phil, but he's a special and much beloved exception) don't spend endless lines of text explaining, blathering on, and endlessly describing our various illnesses that only some of us might have in the first place. But, you know, if you would care to tell me what I am really saying, I'm sure someone would appreciate that.

And the third implicit point being that most of the "illnesses" espoused by FTBers are, for the most part, rare, and in some way or other exceptional, though more often than not psychological. More cred points, indeed.

Lastly, how on Earth do you suppose that you know what I was thinking? You say: "that isn't what he is saying". Phfffft. I mean, that's all sorts of wrong in the fist place 'cause you obviously didn't even get what I was saying -- though that might be more my fault than yours -- and your presumption of accuracy is a joke.

BunnyFluff said:
I read what JG said. And I appreciate the humanity you extend. But we are all only human. We've been called some pretty vile things by the baboons over the years. Told to die innumerable ways, often involving fires or rotting porcupines. We've been othered, maligned, cast as rapists and rape apologists, when some of us have been the victims of rape ourselves. So if he indulges in a bit of name-calling, I am not going to begrudge him that. What we do in mocking them is all a matter of a spectrum, a degree. It's not an all-or-nothing affair. Either we let them run rampant or we mock. That mocking often takes forms that may be uncomfortable for some of us.

So I applaud your humanity and generosity. I really do. But just as your wrestlers indulge in a bit of smack-talk, I think we might allow ourselves to do the same. To a certain degree. YMMV. Offer void in Tennessee.
This! A thousand times this!

Parody Accountant
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9834

Post by Parody Accountant »

Couch wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:
Parody Accountant wrote: Can someone explain the sports thing
Cricket.
Basically you have two teams.
Each team consists of one "Vendor" which is decided beforehand by a coin toss from the opposing teams "Spotcher" (Unless it's a league game in which case all vendors are decided by vote and also become "strident" which puts allows them to use a technique known as "drop ball" in later matches).
After that it's time to set places. "Brandishers" are placed at random points around the field but must be placed opposite any opposing "Clegman" otherwise it's instant disqualification.
Other players must be placed in advantage or remain as substitutes until they "witness" twelve points.
The first team to throw first is whichever one "tapped the mat" (basically this the team's annual aggregate score divided by the number of remaining players left after "Fettling Stage" in the previous game).
A ball thrower, known as a "chuckler" tosses the ball towards any opposing player with advantage who then attempts to "defend" by either hitting the ball or "calling the line" using sight ONLY. Points are earned by successful defence but the player scoring must be withing 3 feet of a Brandisher from the opposing side.

You still following?
Miles behind, as usual; savouring the unravelling of Herr Meyers' vision of lebenstraum for Team SJW; but had to pop in briefly to say, Parsehole, you are a very funny cunt. Very funny indeed. I sometimes read your posts in Peter Cook's voice and I cracks me up even harder.

That is all.
hahahahahaha thank you for making me go back and re-read. There's a few posters here that slip shit by all the time. Tony Parsehole, Service Dog, etc.

James Caruthers
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9835

Post by James Caruthers »

jet_lagg wrote:
Therein lies the rub. I've seen studies that show trans people are at greater risk of suicide after surgery. If that's accurate, the anorexic analogy is apt. The individual needs to come to accept themselves as they are, rather than modifying how they are to match what they think they should be.
You realize this is Fat Acceptance talk, right?

I thought you were more volkisch than that, brah.


CuntajusRationality
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9837

Post by CuntajusRationality »

PZ Myers makes amends for muzzling Nerd of Redhead, with a personalized theme for his latest post.

https://archive.is/DZ9qQ
Those sneaky gingers pop up everywhere

I have a brother with red hair. I also have a son with red hair. Once upon a time, my beard and mustache contained many red hairs among the dominant browns. If you’ve ever wondered how these gingers appear all over the place, Petra Haak-Bloem offers a good explanation (although it needs some editing: how many different ways can they spell pheomelanin?).

dog puke
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9838

Post by dog puke »

Billie from Ockham wrote:<blah, blah....>

With that said, I wouldn't put it past Scalia and Thomas to declare that dead people are people....
I think it was the (great) Mitt Romney who once said: "Corpses are people my friend".*








* Or something like that.

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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9839

Post by free thoughtpolice »

Shatterface wrote:
Sunder wrote:Also, with regard to SJWs constantly trying to make things like necrophilia, bestiality, and pedophilia out to be "not so bad," I get the feeling that since they've successfully made consensual relationships with another adult human being as difficult as possible, they're probably just trying to find something they can still fuck.

It's like they heard the fundies objections to homosexuality - ''If we allow this they'll be fucking the corpses of children next!'' - and thought, ''Fuck it, why not?''
How would you get crystal clear consent?

Steersman
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Re: Happy 3rd Pit Birthday!

#9840

Post by Steersman »

German StrutBoatsman wrote:
Billie from Ockham wrote:Yeah, disingenuous people can come up with reasons to treat a dead body as something special, just as they can come up with reasons to prohibit certain actions on Sunday, but these are just holes in the Church-and-State wall that were hollowed out years ago and haven't (yet) been filled in.
It's neither disingenious nor religious to have emotional attachment to bodies of loved ones or even to want to see the remnants of fellow human beings being treated with some respect.

It's maybe not fully rational but emotions and empathy are what sets us apart from machines and Steersman.
And self-awareness, although some of the usual suspects seem a little short of that too. But as scientists have now managed to create self-aware robots, I can maybe expect to have my firmware updated with one of those module and, no doubt, a forthcoming one for empathy:
A robot has just passed a classic self-awareness test for the first time

It thinks, therefore it is.
Fiona MacDonald 7 JUL 2015

A researcher at Ransselaer Polytechnic Institute in the US has given three Nao robots an updated version of the classic 'wise men puzzle' self-awareness test... and one of them has managed to pass. ….
But I tend to agree with you about “emotional attachments”, although I think that that can be taken to extremes – as in some of what Billie suggested.

Locked