Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[windy]

Could be a reference to the spectrum of UK regional dialects used to voice characters in the English translation.

and by "spectrum" I mean Scot, Yorkshire and Cockney

Wouldn't that be like arguing that Disney's Mulan is set in "pseudo America" because most of the characters had American accents? :think:

[Suet Cardigan]

I think I've spotted Phil in an episode of Futurama:

Phil Leela.png

(429.61 KiB) Downloaded 247 times

[Sulman]

Virulent grannyphobic blogger Alex Mc Gabriel has just taken a piss in Ophie's prunejuice. :o
https://archive.is/Lo6PH

Well he's right about one thing. This is going to entertain the shit out of us. It won't be the first time rabid A+ types set on her. Maybe she'll do like I did and find refuge at the pit :D

She'd never come here. Never.

[James Caruthers]

Maybe I'm just looking for something positive, but my reading of GamerGate was that it was an important demonstration that some people are not going to put up with social-justice bullshit. And when the people standing up and saying "get the fuck out!" happen to have and spend money - which makes them very distinct from your typical SJW - then those with power listen.

Did they change the world outside of gaming in some tangible way that can be directly traced back to them? Not really. But neither did they do nothing of note.

Fair enough. I agree that the bolded part was important.

Also kudos to you for the italicized part.

I think it's also worth pointing out that there is SOME (not tons, but some) actual sexism in gaming culture. I'm thinking of the famous Street Fighter harassment video where a female competitor was sexually harassed verbally on camera during a competition. Not by her opponent, but by one of the giant fatass emcees. People defended him by saying things like "well this is just how gaming is, you have to learn to deal with it, this is my gaming culture!"

[youtube]0SLDgPbjp0M[/youtube]

Maybe you can tell me which part of this is cultural.

So there is a part of me that looks at people like Warcorpse and says "yeah, there is room for criticism of gaming sexism that comes from someone who isn't an authoritarian SJW." And unfortunately, looking at a lot of the online videos made against Anita and in support of GG (from people like AtheistGamer and Warcorpse, etc) I can see some genuine, well, if not sexism then sex preference or sex bitterness.

Too many SexyMGTOW motherfuckers out there with their hooks in GG for me to be comfortable with it. And as shitty as Anita Sarkeesian's videos are, many of the responses are even worse and almost prove her points about sexism. :lol:

You make a really good point. Men have never called other men "faggots" while playing video games.

Men have never been told by other men that they're virgins and will never get laid while playing video games.

Men have never had to hear from fellow men that they have small cocks while they're trying to play a game.

:handgestures-thumbupright:

Someone didn't watch the video.

[James Caruthers]

I remember that asshole from the street fighter tournament, and I remember the gaming community online being largely disgusted with him.

As another example I heard a lot of agreement Arkham City was misogynistic. It's not that histrionic sociopaths like Sarkeesian don't have any points to make. It's that those points are driven to their polar extremes and any deviation from that position is labeled hate.

It's the opposite of the scientific mindset. It's dangerous. And it's infectious.

Yeah, this is what I'm trying to say. There's a danger in pushing back against shitty critics like Anita and becoming radicalized. So that when someone posts a real video of sexual harassment that would be unacceptable in a workplace, people go "this is just my gaming culture."

And yeah, some people really did defend the street fighter asshole on those grounds. I see radicalized people like Warcorpse screaming "cuntbitchwhore" whenever they talk about women in their videos, and it's like "damn, dude, chill out, you're giving Anita supporters all the ammo they could ever need."

Calling someone a faggot on teamspeak is not the same thing as sexual harassment and we shouldn't conflate the two.

[James Caruthers]

Misogyny in gaming exists but I don't think it's a specific problem of gaming. The real roots of misogyny are external to video games. It's social isolation into an internet space that feeds a general anti-social lifestyle. People can play video games and be relatively socially well-adjusted, but some people who have trouble fitting in might devote themselves to gaming and bring their emotional issues into the fray.

In general many "Internet misogynists" (real misogynists like Vox day, RooshV or Warcorpse, not misogynists by FTB's standards) are often people who struggle with emotional issues that lead them to retire from society into the Internet, on some way or another.

"Safe spaces" are places where whining and complaining about "shitlords" or "bitches" is actively encouraged and rewarded and where people are offered hugs/"man scores" not for doing something but simply for posting the most convincing whine.

A woman is frustrated with her lack of luck in love (and sex): she goes on the Internet and becomes a SJW/radfem to blame men for their awfulness.

A man is frustrated with his lack of luck in love (and sex): he goes on the Internet and becomes a MRA/PUA/MGTOW/PUAHate/ to blame women for their awfulness.

Mirror images...

Yeah, I can agree with this.

I don't think there's MORE misogyny in gaming than elsewhere really. But there is some and it's fine to bring that up as long as the goal isn't to turn all of gaming into a tumblr safe space for the Hensleys of the world.

[Guest]

"Gamergate goes from strength to strength" haha, okay.

At least thanks to GG, I feel like I'm discovering whole new species of idiots that I was previously unaware of. It's like a deep-sea trawler bringing bizarre creatures to the surface. What, another one who thinks Poland is English?

How could it be anything BUT with all those white people!

England is France is Germany is Spain is Russia is Poland.

If only game developers would stop being so overtly racist.

[Guest]

Virulent grannyphobic blogger Alex Mc Gabriel has just taken a piss in Ophie's prunejuice. :o

Code: Select all

https://archive.is/Lo6PH

Well he's right about one thing. This is going to entertain the shit out of us. It won't be the first time rabid A+ types set on her. Maybe she'll do like I did and find refuge at the pit :D

She'd never come here. Never.

franc isn't a girl yet, so Ophelia's safe

[Shatterface as Guest]

Could be a reference to the spectrum of UK regional dialects used to voice characters in the English translation.

and by "spectrum" I mean Scot, Yorkshire and Cockney

Wouldn't that be like arguing that Disney's Mulan is set in "pseudo America" because most of the characters had American accents? :think:

Ditto Star Wars.

Except the bits on the Death Star which is, indeed, pseudo-England.

Shatterface

[Lsuoma]

Huh. Yet another "I'm going to nag the fuck out of you" face. Bonerkiller. Does she WANT to be less likable than Lindy West?

She's less likeable than Rosemary Fucking West...

[Lsuoma]

BTW, for a Peezy/Christopher Lee crossover thought, here you go:

[youtube]-goD4ps7IcU[/youtube]

[free thoughtpolice]

Huh. Yet another "I'm going to nag the fuck out of you" face. Bonerkiller. Does she WANT to be less likable than Lindy West?

She's less likeable than Rosemary Fucking West...

And about equally qualified as a science journalist.

[Service Dog]

Hard Times.

[youtube]MfJJXIr1gzQ[/youtube]

[Really?]

Huh. Yet another "I'm going to nag the fuck out of you" face. Bonerkiller. Does she WANT to be less likable than Lindy West?

She's less likeable than Rosemary Fucking West...

"Fred West is known to have carried out 12 murders. Rosemary West had no involvement in the first two."

So why are we mad at her? The strong, independent woman was obviously gaslit blah blah blah.

[Pitchguest]

The saddest thing is now GG degenerated into essentially a left-versus-right debate like every other fucking stupid debate in American politics.

You pay no attention and reduce to simplest model. Dumb.

There is no left/right (artificial construct). GG has communists, libtards, xtians, atheists and more. Stop being stupid.

Nah, that's now GG conflict is perceived in the public sphere, brah. Most of the organizations that openly support GG and many of its most vocal proponents are right-wing or hardcore right-wing. Davis, Owen, Milo, KingofPol, anyone from the chans really (lol.) I never knew Internet Aristocrat's politics but I suspect he was at least center right.

Sure you have a few exceptions like Pakman and Sargon, but I don't really know what Sargon's politics are either.

I'm just saying that this is what the debate was reduced to, not what it originally was. Internet slacktivism and dragging in anti-leftism turned GG into another left vs right flamewar on the internet. And yeah, SJWs bear the blame too, in fact many of them wanted to reduce the argument to left vs right to make them look better. But SJWs didn't invent Davis Aurini and Jordan Owen.

That's another thing. Anita Sarkeesian was ONE shitty cultural critic. Why the fuck did GG drag Anita into its movement at all? I always hear her mentioned as part of teh evul SJW conspiracy to destroy gaming. Come the hell on, Anita can't do shit.

Most GG supporters are on the left spectrum. It's been polled a dozen times and it's always the same result. Left, left of center. Many are libertarians, some, like Milo, are right-wing. But don't you think that the reason GG supporters gravitated towards right-wing outlets was because the usual mainstream left them in the dirt? By which I mean, journalists like Milo treated them with fairness -- despite the fact that he was almost decidedly anti-gamer some months earlier -- while mainstream press like the Guardian and gaming press outlets like Gamasutra and Rock, Paper, Shotgun instead wrote articles declaring without evidence that anyone supporting Gamergate were a bunch of misogynist harassers. Oh, and gamers being "over" and "dead."

I mean, for fuck sake, Milo writes for a website called Breitbart, from Andrew Breitbart. How many do you think really saw that coming? I, for one, never saw the day that I would say with a straight face that I liked an article from Breitbart.

As for the Sarkeesian Effect, that was up long before Gamergate was even a thing. Also, what the fuck are you talking about? GG didn't drag Anita Sarkeesian into it. Anita Sarkeesian dragged herself into it, by making claims that she had been targeted by Gamergate when she clearly hadn't. Same thing with Brianna Wu. In short, injecting themselves into the conversation. It's difficult for people not to bring them up when they are constantly brought up to discuss Gamergate on ABC, CBC, etc, and it's supposedly about them being harassed and bullied.

I'm seriously confused right now. I thought you were better informed than this.

[comhcinc]

So if you go to /All and click on the rising tab, you will see that the fall out is still happening at Reddit. I honestly thought it would be over with by this morning. http://www.reddit.com/r/all/rising/

If it makes it through the weekend it looks like it may be another user revolt like digg had.

[Tribble]

If Tim Hunt said that we should separate males and females because women get upset, then isn't he just saying that women should have safe spaces? :think:

No, he's saying women are weak, fragile and incapable of dealing the harshness and reality of life, therefore should safe spaces.

[jet_lagg]

I remember that asshole from the street fighter tournament, and I remember the gaming community online being largely disgusted with him.

As another example I heard a lot of agreement Arkham City was misogynistic. It's not that histrionic sociopaths like Sarkeesian don't have any points to make. It's that those points are driven to their polar extremes and any deviation from that position is labeled hate.

It's the opposite of the scientific mindset. It's dangerous. And it's infectious.

Yeah, this is what I'm trying to say. There's a danger in pushing back against shitty critics like Anita and becoming radicalized. So that when someone posts a real video of sexual harassment that would be unacceptable in a workplace, people go "this is just my gaming culture."

And yeah, some people really did defend the street fighter asshole on those grounds. I see radicalized people like Warcorpse screaming "cuntbitchwhore" whenever they talk about women in their videos, and it's like "damn, dude, chill out, you're giving Anita supporters all the ammo they could ever need."

Calling someone a faggot on teamspeak is not the same thing as sexual harassment and we shouldn't conflate the two.

Well I think you raise a good point that we should all be concerned our behavior is just a reaction to other, more radical behavior, and moderate accordingly, but that doesn't change the fact that someone else initiated it and is, in my view, the moral inferior. I think we at the pit, and GamerGate in general, treat the out group with very little charity, but I've come to believe this is a result of the environment our ideological opponents have created. They have insisted on a black-and-white world, and we have shown them precisely what a black-and-white world leads to, how they become heathens according to their own standards.

The trick, IMO, is being willing to admit as much, and being even more willing to embrace someone back into the in group should they show even a modicum of interest. For example, my joke about Benson wasn't really a joke. I know there's a snowball's chance in hell she'll ever come here, but I wish she would, and I'd do my best to see that she wasn't dogpiled should it happen.

This is different than the FTB idea of "come to us, grovel, repent of your sins and we will forgive you (sort of)." I fully expect that Benson and I will have serious conflicts of opinion for the foreseeable future, but at least we could be civil and drop some of the more inflammatory rhetoric (which, in the FTB crowd is far more severe, and at times appears to go beyond mere rhetoric).

[comhcinc]

I mean, for fuck sake, Milo writes for a website called Breitbart, from Andrew Breitbart. How many do you think really saw that coming? I, for one, never saw the day that I would say with a straight face that I liked an article from Breitbart.

To me the really twisted thing is that by not give GG people a fair shake it opens up a lot of left wing kids* would never read a Breitbart article to that type of neo conservative thinking. The "main stream media" have damaged their reputations while at the same time helped Breitbart's.

If smartly due this could be a pretty decent moment in the ongoing culture wars.





by kids I mean teenagers and 20 somethings that traditionally reject conservative ideas until they are older.

[jet_lagg]

And yeah, before I pass out for the night, Caruthers, your assessment of gamergate's politics is simply wrong. I'm pretty left, and find a lot of what I read from Milo repellant, but he gives GG a fair shake, and turns me on to some literature I might not have been aware of otherwise. Anecdotally, I run into GG supporters all the time who express similar dismay that they have been reduced to reading right-wing journalism. More scientifically (and as pitchguest points out), every poll to date has shown the gamergate collective is primarily left wing.

[comhcinc]

My very point!

[comhcinc]

The trick, IMO, is being willing to admit as much, and being even more willing to embrace someone back into the in group should they show even a modicum of interest. For example, my joke about Benson wasn't really a joke. I know there's a snowball's chance in hell she'll ever come here, but I wish she would, and I'd do my best to see that she wasn't dogpiled should it happen.

If she comes here I both welcome her for open honest discussion and dogpile the hell out of her.

[SM12]

Hunt for sure said it poorly, but I get what he was trying to say. I've worked in environments where personal relationships between co-workers became a big time liability for the performance of the organization. I also worked in environments where it wasn't.

Has anybody asked Radford/Stollznow , Smith/Shermer whether or not interpersonal relationships sometimes create a problem in a work environment?

Rebecca Watson takes a minute from her e-begging to lambast people for not encouraging females to get jobs as scientists.

And Peezus is furious that somebody could be driving the 'eye-candy' out of science.

[Tony Parsehole]

White woman pretends to be black. Becomes a leader in the NAACP
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ly-portra/

[Tony Parsehole]

Check the #RachelDolezal tag for many lolz

[comhcinc]

White woman pretends to be black. Becomes a leader in the NAACP
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ly-portra/

The NAACP is the only group left that gets by with calling those of African heritage "colored people". I wonder if Steersman has a job there?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Thanks to the few, but generous donations from fellow Pitters, Ali has been able to rent this baby for the next two months. Now we'll be able to go out for strolls together, and probably tomorrow night we'll go have a pizza nearby. (don't mind the walls, we're [she's] stripping them clean of the old ugly wallpaper)

Thanks again, friends who helped!

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo35 ... dhsgao.jpg

[comhcinc]

Thanks to the few, but generous donations from fellow Pitters, Ali has been able to rent this baby for the next two months. Now we'll be able to go out for strolls together, and probably tomorrow night we'll go have a pizza nearby. (don't mind the walls, we're [she's] stripping them clean of the old ugly wallpaper)

Thanks again, friends who helped!

http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo35 ... dhsgao.jpg

Glad to hear that Phil and good job pitters! unfortunately I just had a vision of your future!

[Ape+lust]

White woman pretends to be black. Becomes a leader in the NAACP
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ly-portra/

Oh. My. Gawd.

http://imgur.com/5pz54OL.jpg

Time to become trans-negro. It's her only hope. She'll be banished to Tumblr, but at least she'll have somewhere where she isn't getting the shit kicked out of her 24/7.

[comhcinc]

White woman pretends to be black. Becomes a leader in the NAACP
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ly-portra/

Oh. My. Gawd.

http://imgur.com/5pz54OL.jpg

Time to become trans-negro. It's her only hope. She'll be banished to Tumblr, but at least she'll have somewhere where she isn't getting the shit kicked out of her 24/7.

http://s.orzzzz.com/news/90/c1//53ce5bf03b73b.jpg

[Service Dog]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/23 ... 5c8501.jpg
http://4comculture.com/wp-content/uploa ... olezal.jpg
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Zfw_Aj2U5ZY/hqdefault.jpg

[Pitchguest]

White woman pretends to be black. Becomes a leader in the NAACP
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... ly-portra/

Oh. My. Gawd.

http://imgur.com/5pz54OL.jpg

Time to become trans-negro. It's her only hope. She'll be banished to Tumblr, but at least she'll have somewhere where she isn't getting the shit kicked out of her 24/7.

http://s.orzzzz.com/news/90/c1//53ce5bf03b73b.jpg

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Service Dog]

https://davewatchingstuff.files.wordpre ... -house.jpg

[AndrewV69]

The trick, IMO, is being willing to admit as much, and being even more willing to embrace someone back into the in group should they show even a modicum of interest. For example, my joke about Benson wasn't really a joke. I know there's a snowball's chance in hell she'll ever come here, but I wish she would, and I'd do my best to see that she wasn't dogpiled should it happen.

If she comes here I both welcome her for open honest discussion and dogpile the hell out of her.

There is no way I am going to doggie her. :naughty:

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Nice Pit Kill!

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

http://files.explosm.net/comics/Rob/mario.png

[Kirbmarc]

<snip>

The trick, IMO, is being willing to admit as much, and being even more willing to embrace someone back into the in group should they show even a modicum of interest. For example, my joke about Benson wasn't really a joke. I know there's a snowball's chance in hell she'll ever come here, but I wish she would, and I'd do my best to see that she wasn't dogpiled should it happen.

This is different than the FTB idea of "come to us, grovel, repent of your sins and we will forgive you (sort of)." I fully expect that Benson and I will have serious conflicts of opinion for the foreseeable future, but at least we could be civil and drop some of the more inflammatory rhetoric (which, in the FTB crowd is far more severe, and at times appears to go beyond mere rhetoric).

I think that the most important thing is to assess stupid, dangerous ideas as ideas and don't think that just because someone has spewed some bullshit (or even a lot of bullshit) then everything they say is wrong.

The "boy who cried wolf"'s real moral,IMHO, isn't simply that "liar are never believed again" but that "even a serial liar can tell the truth be completely in the right for once" (the wolf was there after all).

It might be hard to give a proven liar or ideologue the benefit of the doubt, but if the evidence agrees with them we should suspend our judgement.

In general I think that the Internet culture has a huge flaw: it's too concerned with "absolute justice". People document every single details of what someone else says, people say thing like "the Internet never forget" with a straight face, and sometimes we are too quick to excoriate others for stupid or wrong ideas.

This also happens sometimes on the pit. It's a natural consequence of trying to expose bad ideas and behavior, and it's not always wrong: sometimes it exposes patterns which need to be addressed, and sometimes people who realize they're behaving like cowards or dicks can change slightly their behavior if only to get better PR.

However in reality many times people just blurt out stupid things, or hold onto stupid dogmas for a while and then move on. The SJWs are fond of calling for someone's head for a stupid or badly worded comment (see Sir Hunt's debacle about the "crying women in love").

We are fond of applying the same standards to the SJWs and make them realize that those standards are horrible, but we should never forget that those standards are, indeed, horrible.

PZ is very unpleasant but rationally it's really, really unlikely that he committed a rape/sexual assault, although the SJWs would have labeled him a rapist for his "ZOOM" story if he weren't one of them. The same is true for Canuck. The FTB defence of Ogvorbis is more than a bit disturbing but Oggy might as well be a Munchausen troll playing the "trouble monster" for hugs.

Sarah Butts' pedophile apology is even more disturbing because it sounds sincere, and she's hypocritical in her calling out others for some minor sexual insult or for "creepy" behavior when her moral compass is broken in sexual matters and she's more than a little creepy, but as long as it's just words she doesn't need to be punished by the law or even worse, have vigilantes go after her.

Carrier is a blowhard and a narcissist lolcow and his PUA antics probably ruined his marriage but what's really awful are his double standards, not the fact that he and some tipsy women had sex (nobody really cares about it).

Ophelia has said some stupid stuff and is in general a prude but she's also been right and rational more than a few times.

Even people who behave like holier than thou inquisitors consistently, like Alex Gabriel or Szvan, have still their humanity and rationality to them and we should acknowledge their points when they get them right: Szvan has written a couple of decent pieces against some statutory rape apologists, and Gabriel is in the right when he calls out Ophelia for needlessly dogpiling on Caitlyn Jenner (although he's wrong about Ophelia's reasons for doing so: Ophie's a prude, not necessarily a TERF).

Even Marcotte or McEwan are still human beings and might stumble on the truth sometimes: Marcotte has defended Game of Thrones from some easy outrage for the Sansa rape scene and McEwan...might have said and maybe will say something right, I don't know.

Everyone has messed up. My biggest mistakes here on the Pit have been the Leigh Alexander debate, where I focused on the moot point of who's really black and who isn't, and the Zwarte Piet debacle, where I didn't check whether a Wikipedia picture which represented the crowd of Zwarte Piet protesters as overwhelmingly white was the norm, where there are plenty of pictures available that show that a lot of black people do protest the Zwarte Piet blackface.

In both cases I insisted on stupid points or had some wrong ideas and I was called out on them and corrected them. No big deal. FTB would have assigned me a label (probably "racist") and called my rapid death in a fire. People here moved on.

If Ophelia moved on and no longer published SJW-inspired article, we wouldn't need "public apologies". Her new articles would simply need to be judged on their own.

Even PZ could easily go back to 2011 PZ and gain some readership and positive comments from non-SJWs. He doesn't do that because he's,in a way, trapped in a SJW mindset and surrounded with the rabid members of the Horde.

And both of them can easily be right in a new article while they still play SJW policies.

The worst thing about SJWs is that they're absolutely unforgiving unless one debases themselves completely and utterly. They're immersed in the most toxic part of "call out culture" which makes the Internet a very unpleasant place.

"Absolute justice" is always dangerous. There's a Jacobin streak to the Internet and almost everyone believes they're either Batman or the Punisher just because they're on a platform where they're relatively anonymous. Sometimes some people need to be called out, especially if they're being extremist and/or hypocrites. But some other times it's right to forget, to say "yes, something stupid or bigoted has been said, but nothing really happened and we can move on".

[AndrewV69]

[Brive1987]

Re e-begging.

Missed one: Miri. https://www.patreon.com/brutereason?ty=h

41 suckers spending $141 - three bits of Patreon content since Jun.

What's her knowledge base?

I have a BA in psychology and a masters in social work. I have years of experience as a writer, sexuality educator, public speaker, counselor, and advocate for survivors of sexual violence and mental illness. I read constantly and learn a lot from the people around me. I hope to never stop learning.

Why does she need the money?

Living, mostly. I'm a new unemployed graduate and would love to have some wriggle room while looking for work. I'll also use some of the money for blog-related stuff, like getting new graphics designed, traveling to speak at conferences, and maybe buying a new laptop that will allow me to work faster and more efficiently.

[SM12]

Re e-begging.

Missed one: Miri. https://www.patreon.com/brutereason?ty=h

41 suckers spending $141 - three bits of Patreon content since Jun.

What's her knowledge base?

I have a BA in psychology and a masters in social work. I have years of experience as a writer, sexuality educator, public speaker, counselor, and advocate for survivors of sexual violence and mental illness. I read constantly and learn a lot from the people around me. I hope to never stop learning.

Why does she need the money?

Living, mostly. I'm a new unemployed graduate and would love to have some wriggle room while looking for work. I'll also use some of the money for blog-related stuff, like getting new graphics designed, traveling to speak at conferences, and maybe buying a new laptop that will allow me to work faster and more efficiently.

I blame Sir Tim Hunt for her not having a job as a rocket scientist or a brain surgeon.

Oh, and that guy with the shirt. It's his fault as well.

Beg for money for a living or study engineering? Which is easier? Do the maths.

Or if the maths is too hard, become an advocate for survivors of sexual violence.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I'm not going to comment on e-begging. Not right now, anyway... :whistle:

[SoylentAtheist]

[youtube]oKRj_h7vmMM[/youtube]

www;kgw;com/story/news/nation-now/2015/06/11/spokane-naacp-president-questions/71101474/
^-semis for periods

[paddybrown]

The latest scandal over at Tor is concerns Irene Gallo, associate publisher of Tor.com and creative editor of Tor Books apparently made some intemperate statements concerning Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies resulting in calls for her head (and three others).

This prompted Eric Flint to come to the defense of the Sad Puppies

While I was attending SFWA’s Nebula Awards weekend, the following statement was made on her Facebook page by Irene Gallo in response to a question. (The question was “what are the Sad Puppies”?)

“There are two extreme right-wing to neo-nazi groups, called the Sad Puppies and the Rabid Puppies respectively, that are calling for the end of social justice in science fiction and fantasy. They are unrepentantly racist, sexist and homophobic. A noisy few but they’ve been able to gather some Gamergate folks around them and elect a slate of bad-to-reprehensible works on this year’s Hugo ballot.”

When it comes to sheer, breath-taking dishonesty and just plain silliness, this statement is far worse than any of the ones cited by James May which I dealt with in previous essay. (Most of which were either perfectly fine or, at worst, one-sided.) But what makes the statement noteworthy is that Irene Gallo is not simply a loudmouth on the internet with a tenuous grasp of political logic and apparently no grasp at all of common decency. She is also the Art Director for Tor/Forge Books, which is by far the largest publisher in F&SF. In short, someone who has a genuinely important and influential position in the field.

The Puppies are right wing people successfully gaming identity politics. They're presenting conservatives as an underrepresented minority, in need of affirmative action because there's a powerful group of people who are excluding them and keeping them down. And it's working. I think it's hilarious.

[SoylentAtheist]

[youtube]qUW8JsLDsNo[/youtube]

[rayshul]

Did anyone catch this?

From Facebook:

The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science (Official)
21 hrs ·
Recent studies suggest talk-therapy is as effective as sleeping aids for insomniacs.
Read more: http://ow.ly/O7C54

Maybe he's giving Ashley a hint.

[rayshul]

Oh wait she's narcoleptic, it's the opposite of that

[rayshul]

The Puppies are right wing people successfully gaming identity politics. They're presenting conservatives as an underrepresented minority, in need of affirmative action because there's a powerful group of people who are excluding them and keeping them down. And it's working. I think it's hilarious.

Disagree. They're pushing quality not politics or identities... well, sad puppies are.

[AndrewV69]

The Puppies are right wing people successfully gaming identity politics. They're presenting conservatives as an underrepresented minority, in need of affirmative action because there's a powerful group of people who are excluding them and keeping them down. And it's working. I think it's hilarious.

That is because it is hilarious, and especially so as there is some merit in their argument.

Personally, I have had an increasingly difficult time over the last ten years to find some SF that was not utter crap and I gave up reading any Hugo winner stories because so much of it was rubbish.

Nowadays, I just keep rereading books I already read and new stuff from authors I have enjoyed in the past. The Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies may have a point.

They can call for a boycott of Tor for all I care, seeing as effectively I did that years ago.

[paddybrown]

The Puppies are right wing people successfully gaming identity politics. They're presenting conservatives as an underrepresented minority, in need of affirmative action because there's a powerful group of people who are excluding them and keeping them down. And it's working. I think it's hilarious.

Disagree. They're pushing quality not politics or identities... well, sad puppies are.

Maybe so - I don't read much science fiction, so I have to plead ignorance on that - but they're doing it by playing the identity politics system against the people who created it.

[rayshul]

I quit writing fantasy and science fiction because of the massive SJW infestation. It was fucking impossible to do anything without them picking you apart.

It was my first SJW rodeo and I fell off. :(

So Sad puppies is honestly the most fucking awesome thing ever.

[Kirbmarc]

Re e-begging.

Missed one: Miri. https://www.patreon.com/brutereason?ty=h

41 suckers spending $141 - three bits of Patreon content since Jun.

What's her knowledge base?

I have a BA in psychology and a masters in social work. I have years of experience as a writer, sexuality educator, public speaker, counselor, and advocate for survivors of sexual violence and mental illness. I read constantly and learn a lot from the people around me. I hope to never stop learning.

Why does she need the money?

Living, mostly. I'm a new unemployed graduate and would love to have some wriggle room while looking for work. I'll also use some of the money for blog-related stuff, like getting new graphics designed, traveling to speak at conferences, and maybe buying a new laptop that will allow me to work faster and more efficiently.

This is no surprise, although Miri's not even one of the worst FTB bloggers. She cares way too much about other people's opinions, has said some stupid stuff about "rape lists" before and she's way too demanding towards her readership but she has, overall, a much nicer personality than Szvan or even PZ. She might actually be likeable enough to get some money if she tones down her ally-bashing.

An of course she's the Dark Mistress of my heart, but that's just completely incidental.

[jimthepleb]

Today Parsehole got a gift from god. Godfrey is having the best tie ever!

[Søren Lilholt]

It'll be interesting to see if/how Caine responds to the Rachel Dolezal phenomenon.

[Tony Parsehole]

Today Parsehole got a gift from god. Godfrey is having the best tie ever!

Truly.
Ages ago I made a #Wrongskin tag and there was only me posting in it like a sad cunt but now it's going mental.

I hope it trends :P
Bit gutted actually coz I have work at 12 and can't stay for all the fun.

[rayshul]

THIS SHOULD BE YOUR JOB TONY

THIS SHOULD BE YOUR FULLTIME JOB

IT'S TIME TO PATREON

[Tony Parsehole]

THIS SHOULD BE YOUR JOB TONY

THIS SHOULD BE YOUR FULLTIME JOB

IT'S TIME TO PATREON

I literally can't even

[franc]

Virulent grannyphobic blogger Alex Mc Gabriel has just taken a piss in Ophie's prunejuice. :o
https://archive.is/Lo6PH

Well he's right about one thing. This is going to entertain the shit out of us. It won't be the first time rabid A+ types set on her. Maybe she'll do like I did and find refuge at the pit :D

Oafy can always warm her withered granny hands on my cat food smelling nutsack. I am nothing if not humane.

[Guest]

The Puppies are right wing people successfully gaming identity politics. They're presenting conservatives as an underrepresented minority, in need of affirmative action because there's a powerful group of people who are excluding them and keeping them down. And it's working. I think it's hilarious.

Disagree. They're pushing quality not politics or identities... well, sad puppies are.

They are pushing it to a degree since its 'quality from people who wouldnt normally have a hugo shot.

Which is against at attitude they are identifying as political.

[franc]

Virulent grannyphobic blogger Alex Mc Gabriel has just taken a piss in Ophie's prunejuice. :o

Well he's right about one thing. This is going to entertain the shit out of us. It won't be the first time rabid A+ types set on her. Maybe she'll do like I did and find refuge at the pit :D

Shatterface

It is hilarious to contemplate his situation. Oh, for access to the FtB backchannel right now.

http://i.imgur.com/FSsMFzJ.jpg

[Keating]

I mean, for fuck sake, Milo writes for a website called Breitbart, from Andrew Breitbart. How many do you think really saw that coming? I, for one, never saw the day that I would say with a straight face that I liked an article from Breitbart.

This has been the strangest part for me too. I've found myself reading a lot more right-wing press then I used to. Increasingly I find myself shaking my head in disgust at the Guardian, while nodding along at sites like Brietbart. I've always tried to seek out alternative views as much as I could, but Atheism Plus and GamerGate have me extending this further.

Increasingly I'm concluding that words like "crazy" or "evil" don't really have much meaning when applied to particular groups. If you take the time to understand the base assumptions and value priorities of others, you can better see how the conclusion follows. Assumptions should at least be traceable to evidence, but often times the science is inconclusive, or points to a continuum rather than discrete points. Nature vs nurture, for example, and what affect things like gut bacteria play or just how good a measure of intelligence IQ tests really are dramatically tip conclusions. Value priorities are much harder to decide what's "right" because they are very subjective: Giving houses to the homeless may be cheaper and have the best outcome in solving homelessness long term, but how do you justify that to the poor shlub who worked really hard to be able to afford the place next door?