Nerds. Nerds EVERYWHERE...

[TiBo]

I have always been bothered by the fact that video games are not considered art.

Video games include..

Graphics
Music
Acting
Story

All of the above can certainly qualify as art.
Games just don't get any respect because they are associated with teen boys and how could *they* ever appreciate anything!

I have always looked at video games as art that you can interact with. A painting/movie that you can explore in 3D.

Oh, and I <3 Mondrian.

1. I suppose that's because the medium "game" just screams "free time activity". It's rather mundane, it's painfully stereotypical, and usually very limited in its scope of expression..

2. Let's imagine an artist produces a really great painting in real life, which is then scanned and used as an object in a computer game (maybe even depicted as a painting e.g. on a wall in a place where you are as the protagonist in the game)... would the inclusion of that painting make the game itself "art" ?

I have problems identifying games as art for the same problem I don't accept "e-sports" as actual sports. In the end, all you do is stare at the monitor and press some keys/buttons.

[Tribble]

I don't think this has been shared here, so here goes:

....

Shitty paranoid woman attacks some kid for using a drone on the beach. Gets arrested, but gets a slap on the wrist. I haven't seen this here, but apologies if I missed it.

Her sentence is not uncommon for first time offenders. So I don't see anything to be outraged over.

[Tribble]

Christ. Sorry to hear that Phil - but no skydiving, ever? That would be some serious suckage ....

In passing though, how did you manage to get off the trampoline afterwards? Were you paralyzed? Managed to make it to the doctor on your own steam? The human body is one remarkable piece of machinery, but it also tends to have a few "glass jaws" where minor stresses can cause serious damage ....

No more skydiving. This type of injury is an instant ban on the practice. They do check before I can get my licence.

I didn't pass out or show any neurological symptoms right after the accident, it just felt like a neck strain after a bad sleep night. I continued the day as usual with a towel wrapped around my neck. We played pétanque, had lunch... week end stuff. I returned home on Sunday evening by car with a friend and went to sleep straight away, not really worried about it. Next morning I went to my local free clinic to have a general physician check me out. She sent me to the pharmacy for pain killers, muscle relaxants and a soft neck brace. She also ordered some x-rays for me to get when I wanted. I went straight to the closest radiology center and got my rays. The center's doctor called me in, showed the x-rays, explained I may have broken something and ordered me to get in the first bus to a clinic with a scanner. I did so, took the scan, and as soon as the results were out the clinic team jumped on me, immobilized me on a gurney and called an emergency ambulance. So off I went to the hospital where they told me I was to remain there, immobilized, to get surgery. A lot of the people I have seen at the clinic and the hospital were quite pissed off at the radiologist for letting me take a fucking bus in my condition. I didn't think it was a big deal, but now I'm starting to understand their POV...

Yeah, you were one harsh bump from death. You're damn lucky to be alive.

[Sunder]

It may be biased personal choice, I'll grant you that, but I'd still go with the game.

Pointillism is pretty fucking sweet, though. And it's all about the one thing sorely lacking in most modern abstract art: Craftsmanship.

[TiBo]

So do I - but the fact that you felt the need to compare the summit of artsy game-design to the crudest form of modern art, already puts you in the defensive. It's like argueing that there are no bodily differences between in men and women by comparing the weakest man to the strongest woman you can find... you somehow undermine your own argument.

Ok, that's a fair point (although that piece of crap is hanging on a museum and it's worth millions of dollars, while Okami's studio is hanging over the bankrupcy office and isn't worth shit). Let's take a mediocre game and compare to something better than that crappy painting:

http://gaygamer.net/images/eternal-sona ... gretto.jpg

Vs

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _Jatte.jpg

It may be biased personal choice, I'll grant you that, but I'd still go with the game.

Yup. That's where we definetely part ways.
From the way it looks, I couldn't be arsed to even install that game.
That painting on the other hand... good choice. I would pay quite a lot of cash to put it in a place where I can look at it any time I want ... it stimulates me aesthetically, a lot.

[Hunt]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... l-illness/

Sometimes PZ is so desperate to buttress his inanity that he runs headlong into flagpoles. I've noticed this repeatedly. Even by the improved conditions and requirements of assessment, Rodger was certainly "a danger to others." I don't think that can be equivocated at this point. If Rodger wasn't under the possible purview of incarceration by reason of insanity, who can be said to be? The trouble was, and entirely consistent with the modern understanding, Rodger didn't know that he was unbalanced (or "sick"), a condition so common there's even a word for it: Anosognosia.

[Konrad_Cruze]

Oh Sweet!

My cup overfloweth. I am dancing with joy!

Because apparently SB-967, was overwhelmingly approved by the State Assembly’s Committee on Higher Education on June 24. And now, reports legal expert Hans Bader, similar measures may be coming on a federal level.

In the end, Culp-Ressler’s argument boils down to this: A rule so murky that even its advocates aren’t sure exactly what it means or how it will work, and which allows virtually any sexual encounter to be reclassified as a violation after the fact, is not a problem because people can be trusted not to abuse it. What could possibly go wrong?

What indeed?

I just know I am going to be constantly entertained in the years to come. Woot!

(too bad about all the future victims of SB-967)

It does indeed seem that it's past the point for good sense to prevail on US campuses. So now, the thing will have to run it's course. We have to wait until the American public gets sick of having it's sons branded as rapists and kicked out of university, on the basis of flimsy accusations and a process that's a denial of every principle of natural justice.

Aside from those who are actually going to have their lives ruined, what lesson is this going to teach a generation of young men? That women are people who destroy you out of stupidity, embarrassment or petty malice? This is a poison that will spread.

Its almost as if these people don't understand how the law is supposed to work. A clear and unambiguous rule that people can easily understand, any loop holes should be closed on discovery.

This law is so woolly that I can't understand how it was passed (Actually I can. People so scared of being thought a misogynist that they will agree to anything remotely progressive) Hopefully this law will crumble as soon at the first case as no one will be able to understand what the fuck the complaint is.

[Southern]

I have always been bothered by the fact that video games are not considered art.

Video games include..

Graphics
Music
Acting
Story

All of the above can certainly qualify as art.
Games just don't get any respect because they are associated with teen boys and how could *they* ever appreciate anything!

I have always looked at video games as art that you can interact with. A painting/movie that you can explore in 3D.

Oh, and I <3 Mondrian.

1. I suppose that's because the medium "game" just screams "free time activity". It's rather mundane, it's painfully stereotypical, and usually very limited in its scope of expression..

2. Let's imagine an artist produces a really great painting in real life, which is then scanned and used as an object in a computer game (maybe even depicted as a painting e.g. on a wall in a place where you are as the protagonist in the game)... would the inclusion of that painting make the game itself "art" ?

I have problems identifying games as art for the same problem I don't accept "e-sports" as actual sports. In the end, all you do is stare at the monitor and press some keys/buttons.

1. So is cinema.

2. No, of course not. A reproduction of Mona Lisa is not art itself.

Not every game will have artistic value, of course:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-V5aIPjuOaTU/U ... tion-_.jpg

Like not every song has artistic value:

[youtube]LVf5Cr4M-F8[/youtube]

Nor every movie has artistic value:

[youtube]qHKTXrUnN58[/youtube]

So, you don't think chess is a sport too?

[another lurker]

I have always been bothered by the fact that video games are not considered art.

Video games include..

Graphics
Music
Acting
Story

All of the above can certainly qualify as art.
Games just don't get any respect because they are associated with teen boys and how could *they* ever appreciate anything!

I have always looked at video games as art that you can interact with. A painting/movie that you can explore in 3D.

Oh, and I <3 Mondrian.

1. I suppose that's because the medium "game" just screams "free time activity". It's rather mundane, it's painfully stereotypical, and usually very limited in its scope of expression..

2. Let's imagine an artist produces a really great painting in real life, which is then scanned and used as an object in a computer game (maybe even depicted as a painting e.g. on a wall in a place where you are as the protagonist in the game)... would the inclusion of that painting make the game itself "art" ?

I have problems identifying games as art for the same problem I don't accept "e-sports" as actual sports. In the end, all you do is stare at the monitor and press some keys/buttons.

I guess it can depend on the game.

Planescape Torment, for example, is an RPG, but it's also a fucking book. I think there are over 20,000 lines of text in that game, or something crazy like that. The gameplay experience really did feel like an interactive book. And I do consider Torment to be a work of art.

[real horrorshow]

Forgot to add, androgynous-looking people can presumably go into any communal/public bathroom they choose, as long as their behavior once inside matches that expected of the gender bathroom they're in - standing to pee via phallus at a urinal, versus patiently waiting in line for a stall while complaining that there's no line for the men's room and there should be more stalls in the women's room.

I've long wondered about this. I agree it's a nuisance that most venues allocate the same amount of space for male and female toilets, as this means fewer spaces for the girls, because cubicles take up more room. However, it's only a social convention that women have to use a cubicle to take a pee. Why couldn't there be female urinals? Something based on the bourdaloue maybe:

http://i.imgur.com/UvSZMzq.jpg

Or, as I found while looking for that pic, why not make it possible for women to use existing urinals via Female Urination Devices as recommended by this place

[didymos]

1. I suppose that's because the medium "game" just screams "free time activity". It's rather mundane, it's painfully stereotypical, and usually very limited in its scope of expression..

Yeah, you really don't have much experience with modern games, do you?

[Tribble]

In other news, I'm charged with the little one for another week. Tonight she woke up crying, tears in her eyes, her lower lip trembling. I picked her up to comfort her and she rested her head on my shoulder. So cute! I gave her some formula and she gripped my hand hard. I think she must have had a nightmare or something. She fell asleep again pretty fast after that.

It's not as difficult taking care of a baby as I thought it would be, but it does make you cherish sleeping more. I only had four hours of sleep today but I'm not bitter. I only got two yesterday. Progress!

Babies tend to run in cycles:

The day cycle is a couple of hours of sleep, followed by changing, feeding, changing and some activity with, possibly, another changing, then (sometimes) getting cranky followed by going to sleep.

The night cycle is three-to-five hours sleep followed by changing, feeding, possibly changing and back down for sleeping (which they do fairly easily compared to 'day-time baby' who really wants to stay awake, but can't...).

As the baby gets older, the night sleep gets longer and the day sleep becomes less frequent. I don't remember how old they have to be before they sleep through the night. But it does eventually come, though your charge is not very likely to be at the right developmental age for you to 'enjoy' that transition if you're getting so little sleep now.

Also, whenever the baby goes to sleep, try and take a nap!!! It really helps.

[Hunt]

In other news, I'm charged with the little one for another week. Tonight she woke up crying, tears in her eyes, her lower lip trembling. I picked her up to comfort her and she rested her head on my shoulder. So cute! I gave her some formula and she gripped my hand hard. I think she must have had a nightmare or something. She fell asleep again pretty fast after that.

It's not as difficult taking care of a baby as I thought it would be, but it does make you cherish sleeping more. I only had four hours of sleep today but I'm not bitter. I only got two yesterday. Progress!

Babies tend to run in cycles:

The day cycle is a couple of hours of sleep, followed by changing, feeding, changing and some activity with, possibly, another changing, then (sometimes) getting cranky followed by going to sleep.

The night cycle is three-to-five hours sleep followed by changing, feeding, possibly changing and back down for sleeping (which they do fairly easily compared to 'day-time baby' who really wants to stay awake, but can't...).

As the baby gets older, the night sleep gets longer and the day sleep becomes less frequent. I don't remember how old they have to be before they sleep through the night. But it does eventually come, though your charge is not very likely to be at the right developmental age for you to 'enjoy' that transition if you're getting so little sleep now.

Also, whenever the baby goes to sleep, try and take a nap!!! It really helps.

I must be into my second childhood in that case. Even with 9mg melatonin I almost never sleep more than 4 hours at a time.
But when I wake up, there's nobody there to change me.
:rimshot:

[Lsuoma]

Babies tend to run in cycles:

I like them in the spin cycle best.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Shitty day yesterday - probably have a broken rib or two and was just a complete bitch. Apologies across the board here, so to speak. Anyway, I'll remember to just breath and let shit roll over in the future. That is, if I can fucking breath (stupid rib(s)).

Now, don't you try and out-broken me! This is MY moment!!!

[Ericb]

Shitty day yesterday - probably have a broken rib or two and was just a complete bitch. Apologies across the board here, so to speak. Anyway, I'll remember to just breath and let shit roll over in the future. That is, if I can fucking breath (stupid rib(s)).

Now, don't you try and out-broken me! This is MY moment!!!

Will this this be the Pit's version of hug-gate?

[Dave]

So do I - but the fact that you felt the need to compare the summit of artsy game-design to the crudest form of modern art, already puts you in the defensive. It's like argueing that there are no bodily differences between in men and women by comparing the weakest man to the strongest woman you can find... you somehow undermine your own argument.

Ok, that's a fair point (although that piece of crap is hanging on a museum and it's worth millions of dollars, while Okami's studio is hanging over the bankrupcy office and isn't worth shit). Let's take a mediocre game and compare to something better than that crappy painting:

http://gaygamer.net/images/eternal-sona ... gretto.jpg

Vs

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _Jatte.jpg

It may be biased personal choice, I'll grant you that, but I'd still go with the game.

I think you are going in the wrong direction. Comparing to mass produced games to museum quality paintings is placing your thumb heavily on the side of the paintings. You want to compare games to paintings? Use this as the painting:

http://www.artofthesouth.com/search/ima ... ane_lg.jpg

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Concept art for the creation of many video games could easily be hung in any art gallery.

[Aneris]

<snip> Rejecting it for religious reasons reflects badly on the US, but the fact is many other systems also consider it a debateable extra. It's not covered under the German system either, unless the woman is under 20.

http://reproductiverights.org/sites/crr ... eet_v2.pdf

In Germany, using subsidized contraceptives requires a prescription. With a prescription, hormonal contraceptives, emergency contraception and IUDs are completely covered by the country’s mandatory health insurance scheme for women under the age of 18. For women aged 18 and 19 there is a 10% co-pay, capped at 10 euros per prescription. For women who are 20 years or older, contraceptives are only covered when used for reasons other than pregnancy prevention (for example to prevent menstrual pain).</snip>

Technically, no healthcare system is “free” — perhaps how the costs are distributed is more accurate, where “free” means very wide distribution of cost (through taxes for example). Whereas “not-free” means each individual would pay for their stuff. People on welfare in Germany have contraceptives covered (afaik) and without welfare it's a few bucks (and costs appear distributed, even if not entirely).

[real horrorshow]

In other news, I'm charged with the little one for another week. Tonight she woke up crying, tears in her eyes, her lower lip trembling. I picked her up to comfort her and she rested her head on my shoulder. So cute! I gave her some formula and she gripped my hand hard. I think she must have had a nightmare or something. She fell asleep again pretty fast after that.

It's not as difficult taking care of a baby as I thought it would be, but it does make you cherish sleeping more. I only had four hours of sleep today but I'm not bitter. I only got two yesterday. Progress!

Are you planning on becoming a father? Because if you keep posting like this, you'll be fighting broody women off with a stick!

[Southern]

I think you are going in the wrong direction. Comparing to mass produced games to museum quality paintings is placing your thumb heavily on the side of the paintings. You want to compare games to paintings? Use this as the painting:

http://www.artofthesouth.com/search/ima ... ane_lg.jpg

That's not my point. I never said that videogames will always be better than paintings. My point is that even stupid paintings, like this one:

http://mihoinla.files.wordpress.com/201 ... -43-8m.jpg

Yeah, the famous crappy overpriced one - is considered art, while a game like Okami, which has a beautiful water-colored hand-drawn design - is not, in the eyes of stuck up, Ebert-style critics. "Oh, it's just a children's video game, it's not art". Well, then why the hell cinema is considered art? Are Transformers 2 and Jack & Jill pieces of art? "Oh no, you see, only movies like Citizen Kane are art, those shlocks cannot be compared to true artsy movies". Oh yeah? Then why can't an excellent game be art? It doesn't mean that every Call of Duty needs to be considered one. Hell, I read wonders about this game:

http://omelete.uol.com.br/imagens/valianthearts.jpg

But noooo, it cannot be art at all, because it's a videogame. Now freaking 12 Years a Slave? Oscar-winning art piece, best movie of the year, because it's on film. No matter how boring it is, it's true art.

[Skep tickle]

[...Even with 9mg melatonin I almost never sleep more than 4 hours at a time. ...

Sleep is a hobby of mine, & also an area of professional interest. :) Cue sleep-related blather:

Melatonin is "the dark hormone", signaling to the body that it's dark outside. It's of limited benefit in treating insomnia. It's most useful (still with pretty mild effect) in situations where a person's sleep/wake cycle (our internal clock, a function of the suprachiasmatic nucleus in the brain) doesn't match the dark/light cycle in the sky ("night" and "day"). The 2 main examples of this are (temporary) jet leg and (chronic) being a "night owl" (having delayed sleep phase syndrome).

Outside of those situations, supplemental melatonin may help mery modestly shorten the time it takes to fall asleep, but it won't help a person stay asleep. So your 9 mg of melatonin is probably not helping you (at least not at the 4 hour mark).

The first questions for your situation are:
(a) Do you feel rested when you wake up, and during the day? (If so, you are a "short sleeper" - you don't need much sleep - some if not all of the physiologic functions of sleep are accomplished more quickly in you than in most)
(b) Do you sleep at any other time of day, in other words do you nap? If so, you're splitting your total sleep time into more than 1 stretch, and could probably consolidate it all at night if you wanted to try.

Happy to discuss further, feel free to PM me.

[Za-zen]

Phil, i pulled a muscle in my neck a couple of years ago, which resulted in a massive reduction in movement, seriously i had to look out of the corner of my eyes instead of turning my head, or alternatively i had to turn my whole body, it went on for a good couple of weeks before i got any sort of movement, so i understand what you're going through.

[Za-zen]

So do I - but the fact that you felt the need to compare the summit of artsy game-design to the crudest form of modern art, already puts you in the defensive. It's like argueing that there are no bodily differences between in men and women by comparing the weakest man to the strongest woman you can find... you somehow undermine your own argument.

Ok, that's a fair point (although that piece of crap is hanging on a museum and it's worth millions of dollars, while Okami's studio is hanging over the bankrupcy office and isn't worth shit). Let's take a mediocre game and compare to something better than that crappy painting:

http://gaygamer.net/images/eternal-sona ... gretto.jpg

Vs

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _Jatte.jpg

It may be biased personal choice, I'll grant you that, but I'd still go with the game.

I think you are going in the wrong direction. Comparing to mass produced games to museum quality paintings is placing your thumb heavily on the side of the paintings. You want to compare games to paintings? Use this as the painting:

http://www.artofthesouth.com/search/ima ... ane_lg.jpg

Ha, that's a setup, it's an obvious picture of riverwood in skyrim as you approach it from whiterun, nice try.

[TiBo]

I guess it can depend on the game. Planescape Torment, for example, is an RPG, but it's also a fucking book. I think there are over 20,000 lines of text in that game, or something crazy like that. The gameplay experience really did feel like an interactive book. And I do consider Torment to be a work of art.

There's terrible art, there are glamorous games, and vice versa.

When I say that I've never seen a game that I'd consider "art", I don't mean that games cannot entertain, please, or maybe even inspire. But if I'm supposed to consider a game "art", then I'd like to have something in the substance of the game itself which makes it a piece of art, and not just refer to the things it contains (graphics, music, script). I have no idea what that could be.

1. I suppose that's because the medium "game" just screams "free time activity". It's rather mundane, it's painfully stereotypical, and usually very limited in its scope of expression..

Yeah, you really don't have much experience with modern games, do you?

I do. I've been playing and enjoying games since I got my first c64 in 1984. I'm not an enemy of games.

I think you are going in the wrong direction. Comparing to mass produced games to museum quality paintings is placing your thumb heavily on the side of the paintings. You want to compare games to paintings? Use this as the painting:

http://www.artofthesouth.com/search/ima ... ane_lg.jpg

(You introduced the comparison of medium quality games to (what you considered) medium quality painting, so I used the examples you gave)

I suppose you now inserted the 2nd picture as an example of "lesser art" ? I'd agree, and I find it telling that you also can tell them apart. Seems although both painters knew what they were doing, the outcome hasn't got the same overall quality. In the eyes of "the" viewer, that is. To me, that painting is borderline Kitsch. I'd have a very hard time calling it "art".

So, you don't think chess is a sport too?

It isn't. And no, card games like Poker don't qualify either. Even if my definition of "sports" is fuzzy, that doesn't mean you can take away one of its core elements, namely the exercise of physical skills. Doing "click click" is below the threshold of bodily activity I would accept.

[Skep tickle]

Small correction, for those taking the course for credit:

"Outside of those situations, supplemental melatonin may help mery modestly shorten the time it takes to fall asleep, but it won't help a person stay asleep" should read:

"Outside of those situations, supplemental melatonin may help very modestly shorten the time it takes to fall asleep. In any case, it doesn't help a person stay asleep."

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Phil, i pulled a muscle in my neck a couple of years ago, which resulted in a massive reduction in movement, seriously i had to look out of the corner of my eyes instead of turning my head, or alternatively i had to turn my whole body, it went on for a good couple of weeks before i got any sort of movement, so i understand what you're going through.

Did you just MH me?

[Southern]

So, you don't think chess is a sport too?

It isn't. And no, card games like Poker don't qualify either. Even if my definition of "sports" is fuzzy, that doesn't mean you can take away one of its core elements, namely the exercise of physical skills. Doing "click click" is below the threshold of bodily activity I would accept.

Fair enough. But in a world where curling is considered an olympic sport, I'll keep calling chess and e-sports "sport".

[Za-zen]

Phil, i pulled a muscle in my neck a couple of years ago, which resulted in a massive reduction in movement, seriously i had to look out of the corner of my eyes instead of turning my head, or alternatively i had to turn my whole body, it went on for a good couple of weeks before i got any sort of movement, so i understand what you're going through.

Did you just MH me?

Did it feel good?

On a side note: Owww, sucks to be you, break a leg, and all that.

[welch]

(Yes, we're on to the dodgy puns)

Slymepit is scraping the humour barrel today. Hopefully we'll bounce back soon.

That's gonna snap back on you, the way you're stretching it.

[welch]

As for the birth control debate, does demanding that others pay for ones contraception not imply a massive lack of responsibility on the individual?

In saying that, I believe all forms of contraception should be free. Anything that assists in stopping people from having unwanted children, treating them like shit and creating another damaged individual that the rest of society has to deal with.

The problem is that, if you don't pay for contraception, you pay for the kid one way or another. Taxes mostly. Some for public school, but other for doctor visits the parents can't afford to that bastion of free care, the emergency room.

You're going to pay. Either way. There's no "maybe" about it, so why not pay for the option to not have to pay for the kid?

[welch]

As for the birth control debate, does demanding that others pay for ones contraception not imply a massive lack of responsibility on the individual?

In saying that, I believe all forms of contraception should be free. Anything that assists in stopping people from having unwanted children, treating them like shit and creating another damaged individual that the rest of society has to deal with.

In my view birth control is not a medical problem and no one should be forced to pay for you to have sex. As to it being free. No. Idealistically yes but no company would ever agree to that on the grounds that no company would ever willingly make a loss. It cost money to produce and therefore it should cost money to use. People should (they wont) take responsibility for their actions.

Then why should my taxes go to kids that aren't mine? or other people's taxes go to mine? They're not my fucking kids, why am I paying for their emergency room visits, their limited medical care, their food, etc.? If their parents can't afford to have a kid, they shouldn't be allowed to have sex, because ALL birth control fails, especially the cheap shit you get down at wal-mart.

That way, we give people no other choice than to take responsibility for their actions.

[Guestus Aurelius]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... white.html

...

“People don’t seem to understand the legal issues around consent,” a spokeswoman for Rape Crisis – the UKs largest rape charity – tells me.

“Just because someone seems to say ‘yes’, it doesn’t mean they’ve consented. They might have reduced capacity, thanks to alcohol, drugs, learning disabilities – or even being asleep.

“We understand it clearly when it comes to drink driving; that someone has willingly got behind the wheel, but isn’t in a fit state to consent to drive. We see that they don’t understand the consequences. But we struggle to apply the same concept to rape.”

I'm sure I'll be ninja'd, but I can't help myself:

Hilarious wording here: "but isn't in a fit state to consent to drive"

Reading that—if one didn't know better—one might get the impression that drunk drivers are coddled and absolved of responsibility should their driving result in damage or injury. You see, they weren't "in a fit state to consent to drive," so even though they "willingly got behind the wheel," consent was not given. It's the car's job to know if the driver is too incapacitated to consent. So-called "drunk drivers" are just victims of car-rape. That's why they're always pitied and never held ethically or legally culpable for their actions.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Best way of birth control is a blowjob or anal. Discuss...

[real horrorshow]

So do I - but the fact that you felt the need to compare the summit of artsy game-design to the crudest form of modern art, already puts you in the defensive. It's like argueing that there are no bodily differences between in men and women by comparing the weakest man to the strongest woman you can find... you somehow undermine your own argument.

Ok, that's a fair point (although that piece of crap is hanging on a museum and it's worth millions of dollars, while Okami's studio is hanging over the bankrupcy office and isn't worth shit). Let's take a mediocre game and compare to something better than that crappy painting:

http://gaygamer.net/images/eternal-sona ... gretto.jpg

Vs

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _Jatte.jpg

It may be biased personal choice, I'll grant you that, but I'd still go with the game.

I will see you and raise you: What a swamp looks like in Guild Wars 2
http://i.imgur.com/YPTV2m0l.jpg
(should be a thumbnail)

[welch]

Bonus is how many angry idiots think it's real and end up as tweet-fodder.

Sadly, I agree with the tweet, so I guess I'm a reactionary old art-ist fart.

This:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/ ... i-hd02.jpg

Vs this:

http://princeton.guendel.org/wp-content ... g_8705.JPG

I prefer the game, thank you very much.

So do I - but the fact that you felt the need to compare the summit of artsy game-design to the crudest form of modern art, already puts you in the defensive. It's like argueing that there are no bodily differences between in men and women by comparing the weakest man to the strongest woman you can find... you somehow undermine your own argument.[/quote]

At least they tried to show what they were talking about. Blanket "They aren't art" statements are inane on the face of it. Video games aren't for everyone, then again, neither is any form of art, but saying that things like Shadow of the Colossus, Myst, Silent Hill, many of the FF series, etc. aren't "art" is effectively indefensible.

You may not like the artwork within them, or the music, or the writing, but that doesn't make them "not art".

[welch]

Shitty day yesterday - probably have a broken rib or two and was just a complete bitch. Apologies across the board here, so to speak. Anyway, I'll remember to just breath and let shit roll over in the future. That is, if I can fucking breath (stupid rib(s)).

How'd you manage that?

[real horrorshow]

Bugger, here's a link

[katamari Damassi]

Some of the attitudes expressed here in regards to health insurance and contraception are disturbing, and make me side with the SJL which is equally disturbing.
That anyone here would side with religious fanatics because you think the boss shouldn't have to pay for sluts to party, is bizarre.
You guys know how health insurance works, right?
Can I stop paying my taxes because I don't want to pay for drone strikes?

[Matt Cavanaugh]

He Mansplains Her

She informs him of her position
That men should just shut up and listen

In altercations fierce and long
He's a man, so he's always wrong

For she has mastered polemics well
"Stop mansplaining!" kills all debate
As does belling like some hound from Hell

Ever thus is an ally's fate
For spineless men, at any rate.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Reading that—if one didn't know better—one might get the impression that drunk drivers are coddled and absolved of responsibility should their driving result in damage or injury. You see, they weren't "in a fit state to consent to drive," so even though they "willingly got behind the wheel," consent was not given. It's the car's job to know if the driver is too incapacitated to consent. So-called "drunk drivers" are just victims of car-rape. That's why they're always pitied and never held ethically or legally culpable for their actions.

Reminds me of a [Scrubs] episode where JD gets a SUI (scooting under the influence) and has a breathalyzer installed on his scooter that will lock it if he has alcohol in his breath. He proudly explains this to the Janitor, who evidently proceeds to blow in the breathalyzer and blocks JD's scooter for like a week.

That breathalyzer/contact stuff doesn't sound like such a bad idea. Now, to adapt it to sexual relations...

[TiBo]

So, you don't think chess is a sport too?

It isn't. And no, card games like Poker don't qualify either. Even if my definition of "sports" is fuzzy, that doesn't mean you can take away one of its core elements, namely the exercise of physical skills. Doing "click click" is below the threshold of bodily activity I would accept.

Fair enough. But in a world where curling is considered an olympic sport, I'll keep calling chess and e-sports "sport".

Many sports disciplines are dubious .. Curling might be among them, but so are Ballooning, Equestrian, Bob Sleigh, Sailing, Synchronised swimming, and Water motosports (and Motorsports in general).

[Dave]

I think you are going in the wrong direction. Comparing to mass produced games to museum quality paintings is placing your thumb heavily on the side of the paintings. You want to compare games to paintings? Use this as the painting:

http://www.artofthesouth.com/search/ima ... ane_lg.jpg

(You introduced the comparison of medium quality games to (what you considered) medium quality painting, so I used the examples you gave)

I suppose you now inserted the 2nd picture as an example of "lesser art" ? I'd agree, and I find it telling that you also can tell them apart. Seems although both painters knew what they were doing, the outcome hasn't got the same overall quality. In the eyes of "the" viewer, that is. To me, that painting is borderline Kitsch. I'd have a very hard time calling it "art".

Given the above quoted section was my first comment on this matter, you certainly were not using examples *I* gave.

As I see the conversation, a quoted tweet tried to compare video games to museum quality art. Someone else (I believe Southern) compared the visual artistic merit of a particular video game with a well known piece by Mondrain. You criticized that as comparing a very high end video game with a low-end ("the crudest form") piece of modern art. I suspect the curators at the Tate (where I believe that piece hangs) would disagree with your assessment of the painting, however, my point is that by restricting the selection of paintings to those hanging in museums (something done by the original tweet) we are already heavily biasing towards the paintings. I am suggesting that a better comparison would be paintings by an artist whose work is exhibited in galleries in the same malls that one can buy video games, and included an image of one such painting.

So, yes, I can tell them apart. But I didnt select my image on quality, I selected it as a painting (or an example of an artist or painter if youd rather not extend the term art) that has similar availability and price-point to video games (prints by the artist are still significantly more expensive than most video games, but a damn sight closer than the $Millions that a Mondrain or Seurat would go for today). Perhaps by selecting Kincade, I pushed a little too far, but he is readily recognizable. I still think the appropriate comparison would be art from a local gallery with pieces for sale under $1000. Some of the work there will likely compare favorably with most video games, but I also guarantee that some of the work will compare poorly.

[Guestus Aurelius]

First define "art." Is it somehow different from "entertainment"?

[TiBo]

At least they tried to show what they were talking about. Blanket "They aren't art" statements are inane on the face of it. Video games aren't for everyone, then again, neither is any form of art, but saying that things like Shadow of the Colossus, Myst, Silent Hill, many of the FF series, etc. aren't "art" is effectively indefensible.

You may not like the artwork within them, or the music, or the writing, but that doesn't make them "not art".

I acknowledge that my mere (dis)taste doesn't make it non-art. Infact, there's lots of art I don't like.

[real horrorshow]

Shitty day yesterday - probably have a broken rib or two and was just a complete bitch. Apologies across the board here, so to speak. Anyway, I'll remember to just breath and let shit roll over in the future. That is, if I can fucking breath (stupid rib(s)).

Now, don't you try and out-broken me! This is MY moment!!!

Will this this be the Pit's version of hug-gate?

Well, I fractured my spine in my sleep. Then a few months later, I did it again. Osteoporosis FTW!

[welch]

I guess it can depend on the game. Planescape Torment, for example, is an RPG, but it's also a fucking book. I think there are over 20,000 lines of text in that game, or something crazy like that. The gameplay experience really did feel like an interactive book. And I do consider Torment to be a work of art.

There's terrible art, there are glamorous games, and vice versa.

When I say that I've never seen a game that I'd consider "art", I don't mean that games cannot entertain, please, or maybe even inspire. But if I'm supposed to consider a game "art", then I'd like to have something in the substance of the game itself which makes it a piece of art, and not just refer to the things it contains (graphics, music, script). I have no idea what that could be.

so then neither movies or plays can be art. Because the only difference between those and a videogame, really, is who's in control of the action. Once you remove the things a movie or play contains, such as graphics/sets, music, script, what's left?

[welch]

Best way of birth control is a blowjob or anal. Discuss...

they're not mutually exclusive.

[Scented Nectar]

A question for the doctors here. There's a video claiming a miracle cure (eating cannabis oil) of a child's leukemia. The claim is that chemo didn't work and so instead of the prescribed radiation/bone-marrow-transplant, she began eating marijuana oil every day. The video claims that 6 days after starting the oil, she was declared in full remission.

That seems a big flaw in this tall tale. What doctor would tell someone they are in complete remission just 6 days after telling them they still have leukemia and they need further treatment? And if that did happen, wouldn't it be far more likely that the chemo worked on its own after all?

I think this whole story is bullshit, but I'm curious what the real doctors say. Here's the video:

[youtube]PPjCmqHXmZM[/youtube]

[another lurker]

Best way of birth control is a blowjob or anal. Discuss...

or a metal collar!

[welch]

First define "art." Is it somehow different from "entertainment"?

well NOW you're just being silly

[Guestus Aurelius]

Art is entertainment that is taken seriously by the beholder.

[Guestus Aurelius]

Maybe.

[Lsuoma]

Best way of birth control is a blowjob or anal. Discuss...

Anal, then BJ.

[MadGav]

I would agree, ticks most of the red-flags for Quackery - that said, not an oncologist.

[Random Lurker]

I can start using the nym Some Asshole if you'd like.

Oh dear, it would be even more confusing! "What some asshole said." "which one?"

Lulz

I've been known to start some posts off with "some asshole..."

Perhaps all the lurkers should just switch to asshole nyms?

Another asshole
Random asshole
Some asshole
Asshole person

I have to object to this. I'll have you know I am absolutely NOT an asshole.

I am, in fact, a fuckhead. Sometimes I'll also inwardly present as a judgmental prick, so please respect my identity and don't erase me. HTH, HAND.

[deLurch]

A question for the doctors here. There's a video claiming a miracle cure (eating cannabis oil) of a child's leukemia. The claim is that chemo didn't work and so instead of the prescribed radiation/bone-marrow-transplant, she began eating marijuana oil every day. The video claims that 6 days after starting the oil, she was declared in full remission.

That seems a big flaw in this tall tale. What doctor would tell someone they are in complete remission just 6 days after telling them they still have leukemia and they need further treatment? And if that did happen, wouldn't it be far more likely that the chemo worked on its own after all?

I think this whole story is bullshit, but I'm curious what the real doctors say. Here's the video:

[youtube]PPjCmqHXmZM[/youtube]

Let me one up your pessimisum.

This is an advertisement for a lawyer. Check the "About" section.

Published on Jun 30, 2014
Arrested for a drug crime? Know a drug offender in prison? We free prisoners and defendants. Contact us: http://goo.gl/Y2urVD. If you were busted for a drug crime, do not feel ashamed and do not feel alone. You did nothing wrong or immoral by possessing or selling a substance. You simply did something that is illegal...and it shouldn't be.

A quick Google search will produce undeniable evidence that cannabis oil, also known in cannabis culture as "dabs," cures cancer. However, this knowledge hasn't reached everyone and in many places the cure is still illegal, leaving hundreds of thousands to suffer and die from a curable disease. The cure has been ignored and hidden under a mess of prohibition and corruption for far too long. No one else should be forced to suffer or die because of government ignorance and lack of compassion. Please pass it on.

[John D]

Some of the attitudes expressed here in regards to health insurance and contraception are disturbing, and make me side with the SJL which is equally disturbing.
That anyone here would side with religious fanatics because you think the boss shouldn't have to pay for sluts to party, is bizarre.
You guys know how health insurance works, right?
Can I stop paying my taxes because I don't want to pay for drone strikes?

Get back to me once heath care starts paying for condoms.

[Tribble]

Phil, i pulled a muscle in my neck a couple of years ago, which resulted in a massive reduction in movement, seriously i had to look out of the corner of my eyes instead of turning my head, or alternatively i had to turn my whole body, it went on for a good couple of weeks before i got any sort of movement, so i understand what you're going through.

Channeling your inner Melody I see...

[Southern]

You Amerikans and your silly Amerikan problems. Even in Third World slums you can go to a public health care facility and get free condoms and birth control pills (these may require a receipt, the fuck if I know). AIDS, and 10-plus-kids families, scared people enough for them to say, "Jesus fucking Christ, give the people all the free condoms, just don't fuck without it anymore".

I would sympathize with your dilemma of "we don't want to expend public money on birth control!" if you fuckers didn't have military expenses of trillions of dollars. Just buy six less drones a year and pay for free condoms and pills, you jerks. There, I solved the problem for you. Send me my 10 million dollars for the advice until next Friday, please.