Bleeding from the Bunghole

[real horrorshow]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

xkcd meme. Do I have to find it and post the actual cartoon? Thought not.

[Aneris]

Hi Slymepitters,

Robert Anton Wilson was mentioned a few dozen pages back. He wrote the following after examining, then dismantling, a smear-job mounted by Lyndon LaRouche zombies on an acquaintance of his :-

"I would also like to add in this connection that every major religion, not just the Old Testament, has some version of the commandment against bearing false witness against thy neighbor. When a man's character is slandered, not just he suffers, but his wife, his children, his parents, often his friends.

Those who make a career out of spreading unproven accusations against other humans can only be forgiven if they really are so ignorant and stupid that they don't know the difference between an assertion and an evidential demonstration.

I think it's awfully late to accept that kind of ignorance as an excuse. I think we have a duty to try to know, and to act rationally,responsibly,and decently."

Robert Anton Wilson as awesome as always, provided that's from him. I add a quote from someone influenced by him...

If a Bard were to place not a curse upon you, but a satire, then that could destroy you. If it was a clever satire, it might not just destroy you in the eyes of your associates; it would destroy you in the eyes of your family. It would destroy you in your own eyes. And if it was a finely worded and clever satire that might survive and be remembered for decades, even centuries. Then years after you were dead people still might be reading it and laughing at you and your wretchedness and your absurdity. Writers and people who had command of words were respected and feared as people who manipulated magic.

[screwtape]

Hi guys and gals,
I joined merely to add my support for the Robinson as being the best screw drive mechanism in the known universe, and here I find myself another comment thread at Pharyngula further on. Perhaps naively, I have posted there on several occasions using various minor Shakespearean characters as noms des plumes (I understand french is de rigeur). All arguments are replied to with insults and I am much cheered to see that there are no better replies than a good ol' ad hominem. Frankly, I used to assume the commenters there were all expert in proper argument, but on engagement I find them as much use as a Matilda against an 88mm.

All the same, I would really appreciate it if you would use Robinson screws whenever you need to, ah, screw something. They are the best.

C.

[AndrewV69]

It seems to me the obvious name for the next thread is Aching From The Anus. Enjoy.

I appreciate your sense of humour.

(I just thought I would mention that just in case you get discouraged by some of the more negative comments you see from time to time)

Some people may think that I am an arsehole for saying that but do not let it discourage you.

[Sulman]

I found this place because of the constant pejorative references from FTb, and I got curious. They are worlds apart. There's obviously some dickheads here, but generally it is a place for grown ups; there is clearly no group-think. It's very obviously the more honest.

[Ä uest]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

xkcd meme. Do I have to find it and post the actual cartoon? Thought not.

I think the pit has some opinion leaders/opinion creators and it's at times hard to buck up against them. But it's nowhere like what happens at the FTB where the blogger often acts and encourages the hoder to mass gang up on the pit.

And since rationality does seem to still be appreciated here (as opposed to there), most times, mere bullying is not enough to sway an argument, it needs to include actual winning logic.

That plus the mostly free speech attitude around here seems to make the issue mostly trivial and largely self-correcting.

[John Greg]

I would really appreciate it if you would use Robinson screws whenever you need to, ah, screw something. They are the best.

Well, if you would call them by the correct name -- Robertson -- then I will.

[screwtape]

Entirely correct - I have had too much wine whilst waiting for account approval. My apologies.

C.

[bhoytony]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

Damien has always considered himself above everyone on both sides and likes to point out all our faults and mistakes. Oh, if only we could be just like him we would be awesome. I will resist posting the tediously obvious xkcd feel-superior-to-both strip.
I don't really give a fuck what some snottery nosed sweetie wife thinks about me.

[real horrorshow]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

If the FTB/A+ crowd show up at his blog, he will certainly get grief for having two male gunslingers, one black (evil?), one white (goodness?) at the top of his blog. There is so much inherently wrong with that illustration...racism, violence, sexisms, misogynistic hats, gun culture, old west stereotypes, etc...from their perspective.

Nah, they'll let him off all that, because he said the Pit is as bad as they are, which is as close to a complement as they can get these days, outside of their own little on-line biscuit game.

(Oh, and should anyone else need to know, the person you have to agree with is me.)

[dog puke]

OK, OK. Enough picking on the FreeFromThoughtBloggers, eh?

Let's talk about something exciting like the new lineup for the fall television season. Here's a show I am really looking forward to watching.

[youtube]6ET5aw21dJQ[/youtube]

[bhoytony]

OK, OK. Enough picking on the FreeFromThoughtBloggers, eh?

Let's talk about something exciting like the new lineup for the fall television season. Here's a show I am really looking forward to watching.

[youtube]6ET5aw21dJQ[/youtube]

Brilliant

[Ä uest]

OK, OK. Enough picking on the FreeFromThoughtBloggers, eh?

Let's talk about something exciting like the new lineup for the fall television season. Here's a show I am really looking forward to watching.

[youtube]6ET5aw21dJQ[/youtube]

:rimshot:

[Ä uest]

Can someone give me the cliff notes version of why everyone hates John Scalzi?

He is a cunt

Here's his appearance on Oprah from the 90s when he was a "relationship columnist" for America Online.

[youtube]24FwvdkSFwE[/youtube]

That is definitely John Scalzi but I had to verify it:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/04/28/i ... h-in-1996/

Don't ask me why, but I transcribed it (accurate and mostly word for word except for places where it was inaudible or there was a lot of interruptions or people talkng at the same time.)

Most of what he has to say is banal and innocuous, as is John Scalzi.

But I note that similar to his seminal piece: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/s ... -there-is/ Scalzi comes off as a person who, without a whole lot of data, found something that worked for him, and prescribes it for everyone not acknowledging that he may have been lucky, or that conditions that worked for his success may not be widely available to others.

As I said before, this is what I think of as the Bootstrap fallacy, and it is often applied to Tea Partiers: they were successful and did it on their own, therefore everyone should be successful without need for assistance.

In this case, Scalzi went dancing, and a woman (his future wife, Kristine) asked him to dance. Scalzi did not ask for her number, he gave her a business card. Three weeks later she called him.

Therefore he says [mansplaining], women don't need "The Rules", women just need to be confident and cool all of themselves and be able to ask men to dance.

http://i.imgur.com/5aejSum.jpg


What he says to do will work for some men and women and not for others. The Rules are probably just fine for many women (and men.)

Another interpretation of Scalzi is not that he was letting Kristine have control but that he was cowardly and passive. Men are not Schrodinger's date. Men should not feel constrained by Scalzi's modern gender norms to be passive. If he wants to "give" control to a woman, that's fine, but not all women *need* control per se, and if a woman wants control, she can take it, just like a man could. There is nothing wrong with a man asking a woman for her phone number.

Finally as a bonus he asked Kristine to marry him via his public newspaper column, a practice most feminists now consider intimidating, cowardly, and pushy.

Scalzi:

I'm just a guy so I don't know that much

But I do know this much, that when I'm interested in a woman, I want someone who is my equal and I know she is my equal from the get go. With the rules, we're talking about appearances, you appear cool, you appear confident. But I want a woman who is cool, and who is confident, and how do I know that? Because she has enough confidence to come up to me, she has enough confidence to say, "Do you want to dance?" She has enough confidence to meet me halfway for a date.

Let me give you an example. [Shows wedding ring] I have this wedding ring, it's a lovely wedding ring. It's a wedding ring I have because I am married to my beautiful wife Kristine Ann Blauser-Scalzi and we met because she asked me to dance.

She saw me out there, on the dance floor, I was doing that funky chicken thing, and she said, "I gotta dance with that guy".

Oprah: What year was that?

Scalzi: A little before the [Macarena?] But here's the thing

Sherrie Schneider [Author: The Rules]: Oprah, I want a man who can walk across a room and ask me to dance. If I have to ask a man to dance, I don't want to marry him.

Scalzi: But here's the thing. I didn't see her, I didn't know she was there. Then all of a sudden, she comes up to me, drinking my coke, and says, "You and me, we have to dance". Well now is good. We went out there, we danced. At the end of it, we had a really good time that evening. Know what I did? I gave her my business card. And I said, I really like you, I want you to give me a call so we can go out on another date. By giving her my business card and saying, "please call me, I really want you to call me, let's go out on a date", I gave her control of that situation.

But the thing is, I don't think I am that unusual in the sense that I thinkthat men today know enough about women, that they are confident enough, that they can say [puts arm around woman sitting next to him] If this beautiful woman came up to me and said "Do you want to dance", I'm not going to go, "Oh my god, she's a litte too assertive for me" I would say, "Yes, let's dance" and if it's a good dance and if it goes from there, it goes from there.

Oprah; One of the things you say is that The Rules concentrate on the process of meeting and dating a man rther than the relationship and I think one of the things they [Schneider and Fein] is that this is for the beginning

Scalzi [Interrupting] No

Oprah: Most women are just trying to meet

Scazli [Interrupting]: The Rules say

Oprah: I get thousands of letters every week,

Scazli [Interrupting]: The Rules even if

Oprah: women just want to meet somebody

Scazli [Interrupting]: you are engaged or married you still need the rules. That's a rule. Which rule [points to authors of The Rules]

Fein: You need the rules but you don't have to do them as strictly.

Scalzi: But my point is that isn't it much better to have a man who knows who you are from the beginning. You don't

Oprah: I have a point, why can't they both be right? Why can't you be right and Rebecca be right and they be right? Why can't you look at the Rules with the sense of humor and a sense of balance and you incorporate what works for you and what doesn't work for you you throw that away?

Schneider: The women to who we spoke are smart beautiful. They have MBAs they have [inaudible] They are just a little off in the man area because they've been told "you can chase men, you can call men, you can propose" and you can't.

Oprah: Look, I do the Oprah Show, some of the smartest women in the world make omplete fools of themselves with men.

Schneider: Exactly. We're not talking about psychos who need therapy. We're talking about the average, adult women.

Rebecca [Therapist?]: I don't think everyone in therapy is a psycho.

Schneider: No, but you're making it sound like these women are out of Fatal Attraction. They are smart women that make stupid choices with men, that's all.

Scazli: Excuse me, here's what I think, I think that every relationship should ahve rules, and those rules should be made between the man and the woman [inaudible]

His account of his marriage proposal here:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2007/06/15/m ... -proposal/

I don’t know when Krissy and I started talking about getting married, but we did. Still, we’ve always hedged our bets. Every time we’ve talked about marriage, the future, kids and so on, I’ve always said, “Not that I’ve proposed.” To which she would say, “Not that I’ve said yes.”

Well, I’m proposing now.

Kristine Ann Blauser, will you marry me?

Yes, that’s right, readers, I’ve just proposed to my girlfriend. Really. I thought you’d like to be in on the moment.

Also, this makes it extremely difficult to back out. Not that I want to; I’ve bought a ring and everything. It’s very nice. You should see it.

But more importantly, I love Krissy so much that I want as many people as possible to know about it.

This year has been the best year of my life. I hope to have 50 or 60 more just like it.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/29/t ... g-romance/

http://i.imgur.com/TWk5Kb0.jpg

in what amounts to the nadir of the trend of public marriage proposals that put the recipient on the spot to either say yes or risk having people shriek at her for being ungrateful.

http://jezebel.com/5940383/thats-it-wer ... -proposals

http://i.imgur.com/M0PxWyA.jpg

[CommanderTuvok]

PZ is pulling in the blog hits and I would think that Brayton has a disclaimer somewhere that's going to save his ass. OTOH, maybe not. He's never seemed to be the kind to think his actions through all the way.

Good! It increases the likelihood that particular fat piece of spunkshite will go down with PZ.

[bhoytony]

You have to say the resemblance is uncanny

http://www.annotatedmst.com/episodes/cr ... a_hoss.jpg

[CommanderTuvok]

Damien has always considered himself above everyone on both sides and likes to point out all our faults and mistakes

A bit like Jean "whatever happened to her" Kazez.

[Cunning Punt]

More dirty secrets about prominent atheists revealed! This time it's Dawkins! And PZ even gets a comment in.

You bastard, you made me go and click on that fucktard. That is just like making someone drink all the wine in their glass.

[Parody Accountant]

I think we all know how Clownfall is going to end.



I finally forced myself to learn how to do animated gifs today. Also, GIMP fucking rocks (still prefer photoshop's gui for many tasks... still too lazy to tactfully re-acquire it.)

[Gumby]

OK, OK. Enough picking on the FreeFromThoughtBloggers, eh?

Let's talk about something exciting like the new lineup for the fall television season. Here's a show I am really looking forward to watching.

[.youtube]6ET5aw21dJQ[/youtube]

:clap:
First LOL of the day.

[Gumby]

Damien has always considered himself above everyone on both sides and likes to point out all our faults and mistakes

A bit like Jean "whatever happened to her" Kazez.

An apt comparison. They both are equally condescending and snotty anymore.

[Stunt Whisper]

Holy shit - genuinely humbling praise. Especially from one of the Maestros of the Photoshop. :)
As for quitting, I've actually been semi-retired for almost five months and what my SO feared has started to come to pass - I'm spending far too much time causing trouble on the internet.

GIMP, sirrah, GIMP. Photoshop is for the indolent bourgeoise who have money :D

Thanks for the compliment, friend. And while you're measuring for maestros, consider that Gumby's preferred tool is a software version of a kid's trike. He's building furniture with a pocketknife, but you'd never know it.

Photoshop CS2 is absolutely free and will do most of the things people want: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitleme ... _downloads

[DownThunder]

Re: Thunderf00ts latest video....Nerd of Redhead makes an appearance as an example of one of Myers commenters....couldn't think of a better example

[DownThunder]

More dirty secrets about prominent atheists revealed! This time it's Dawkins! And PZ even gets a comment in.

You bastard, you made me go and click on that fucktard. That is just like making someone drink all the wine in their glass.

Holey shite Ray Comfort isn't ageing well is he....

[bovarchist]

More dirty secrets about prominent atheists revealed! This time it's Dawkins! And PZ even gets a comment in.

You bastard, you made me go and click on that fucktard. That is just like making someone drink all the wine in their glass.

Holey shite Ray Comfort isn't ageing well is he....

I'm waiting for him to make a leather jacket out of his own face...

[mordacious1]

You have to say the resemblance is uncanny

http://www.annotatedmst.com/episodes/cr ... a_hoss.jpg

According to my TV Guide, McWrong is actually playing "Chub" (you have to really know your Bonanza to get that reference).

[Cunning Punt]

Has anyone else being paying attention to the Amazon atheist bestseller list?

I've checked it three times in the past week.
Ther first time was two days after the launch of 'The Happy Atheist'
You might have expected this to be a good time for all his fans to be doing their duty and shewlling out for their hero's words.
Surely even a brief moment at number one could be likely (the list is update every hour so the current state of sales is shown rather than that over a long time period that might obscure the purchases from those who waited until it was released.)

The result was two positions for 'The Happy Atheist' within the top ten.
The hardback edition of the book was at number six, with the kindle edition at number ten.
This was despite the fact that there is little obvious competition from other new releases - Dawkins has an autobiography coming out in a month or so yet the presales for this put it ahead of 'The Happy Atheist', as did sales of 'The God Delusion'.

A checked a couple of days later and saw Myers books at the same places on the list, although there was some changes in the books surrounding them.

Today, however, some real change.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Book ... ks/12764#1

The Happy Atheist, kindle edition, has moved up three places to number seven!

And the hardback, formerly at position number six on the list, has dropped like a stone.

I couldn't find it anywhere in the top one hundred!

This is looking increasingly like a disaster for Myers and his publishing company.

Ha! There are already used copies for sale.

[windy]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

He's probably still butthurt about that spat with franc, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[bhoytony]

You have to say the resemblance is uncanny

http://www.annotatedmst.com/episodes/cr ... a_hoss.jpg

According to my TV Guide, McWrong is actually playing "Chub" (you have to really know your Bonanza to get that reference).

Yes, at first I thought Jen should be playing Hoss, but you have to say casting Zvan is spot on.

[Bourne Skeptic]

Hi guys and gals,
I joined merely to add my support for the Robinson as being the best screw drive mechanism in the known universe, and here I find myself another comment thread at Pharyngula further on. Perhaps naively, I have posted there on several occasions using various minor Shakespearean characters as noms des plumes (I understand french is de rigeur). All arguments are replied to with insults and I am much cheered to see that there are no better replies than a good ol' ad hominem. Frankly, I used to assume the commenters there were all expert in proper argument, but on engagement I find them as much use as a Matilda against an 88mm.

All the same, I would really appreciate it if you would use Robinson screws whenever you need to, ah, screw something. They are the best.

C.

It's called a "Robertson"

Now Fuck Off

[real horrorshow]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

Damien has always considered himself above everyone on both sides and likes to point out all our faults and mistakes. Oh, if only we could be just like him we would be awesome. I will resist posting the tediously obvious xkcd feel-superior-to-both strip.
I don't really give a fuck what some snottery nosed sweetie wife thinks about me.

Too slow Chicken Marengo! Too slow for this cat!

Also, it's "Damion", cos I know you care.

[bhoytony]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

Damien has always considered himself above everyone on both sides and likes to point out all our faults and mistakes. Oh, if only we could be just like him we would be awesome. I will resist posting the tediously obvious xkcd feel-superior-to-both strip.
I don't really give a fuck what some snottery nosed sweetie wife thinks about me.

Too slow Chicken Marengo! Too slow for this cat!

Also, it's "Damion", cos I know you care.

Ooh, ninja'd. It's just so lazy when people wheel out the xkcd strip or the Monty Python Four Yorkshiremen clip. It's been done a million times, don't do that guys.

[EdwardGemmer]

I think Damion is spot on. These imaginary sides don't really accomplish anything. The skeptic movement is about promoting critical thinking over things like loyalty and emotion, so saying you are on imaginary side against another imaginary side accomplishes nothing.

[AndrewV69]

Now that you mention it, I have heard Karen Straughan / Girl Writes What say something like "feminism tells us what we thought we already knew."

About the article: Is it possible to have a recursive fractal headache?

There are several things I think are good points:

• People start having sexual interests much earlier than we want to remember that we did thantheyusedto. Ten years old; fifth, sixth grade.
• I've seen things about pornography invading the general culture in other places too. It was always obvious to me that porn was "for entertainment purposes only," not relationship advice. Maybe Dan Savage knows what's up but I don't.
• It's very refreshing that in the study being cited "Steiner-Adair doesn’t see these boys as predators. Rather, she says, their emotional needs have been neglected." But the first correlation I would check for is fatherlessness. Perhaps the study did, but it's not mentioned.

There is, however, an elephant in the room. I see scarcely a word about why the girls are participating. Plenty about how awful the boys' behavior is, but nothing about the girls' motivation. They are depicted as devoid of agency. If that issue was left out of the original study that's an appalling oversight, and for Walsh to offer advice without understanding the full problem is doubtful.

What really stands out in my memories of a teen was not just all the gossip about it, but the competitive aspect more than anything else. I can not claim to understand the motivation for why the girls participated but they did. There were rules though within each group, which seemed to vary somewhat depending on the group.

I also do seem to recall that at that age the influence of your peer group was a lot stronger than any other, including parental. Both the boys and the girls are competing with each other.

Nowadays it does appear indeed that for some reason "porn" behaviour has been normalized within some groups at least within that cohort (with varving limits I do not doubt) that probably vary by geographic, socioeconomic and sub-culture.

You remember that recursive headache? Walsh writes this salcious thing about wild teen nookie, and excuses it by saying how unpleasant it all is. With girls who are participating in unseemly ribaldry, and excusing it by saying how unpleasant it all is.

I got the recursive "Ewwwwww" from her but the rest of the Manosphere has been trying to rub her nose in this type of thing for some time.

I will explain that Susan Walsh has been trying to help young women navigate the hook up scene in college for some time with the apparent implicit assumption that the men in the picture are are mainly to "blame".

However, she has acknowledged from time to time the role that the young women play, and even lectures young women about it. However at heart she appears to be unable to completely accept it, and that a good many of the female participants are pretty "feral" themselves.

Hence the recursive "unpleasant" business. She can not bring herself to explicitly state the obvious at times.

If you accept that women are the gatekeepers for sex, then by allowing this behaviour from men and women, and accepting it as normative, and not slut shaming the women who do, they are effectively perpetuating it.

I do not know why she can not make that step all the time because she quite often does.

But then she recently turned off all comments, and recently started allowing them again under different rules so it looks as if she is determined to shape "reality" in some way.

A few more items:

The girl described the conversation as “a stupid, disgusting exchange,” adding that it was “typical for the boys at our school.” Still, the girl became intrigued when the boy revealed in a subsequent note that he liked her.

Exchange? Subsequent note?

Normative behaviour? Boys will be boys?

[A]pparently whipping out one’s johnson (figuratively and literally) is the new “Come here often?”

That was filthy and I don't believe it.

I am not so sure that I do not. I doubt that it is common though. I can recall being pretty bold myself but not to that level.

Kristy shared a story about a different kind of coercion. She had been making out with a guy at his house, not sure how far she wanted to go, when he stood up and told her, “Get down on your knees.”

Sounds like someone's been reading grandma's romance novels.

It sounded plausible to me actually. While I admit that I was startled at first when I first encountered the notion that a blowjob was not really sex, I also suspect that if she had said "no" that would have been about as far as it went. I currently live out in the sticks, and among some of the young people here that sort of behaviour would not be considered shocking at all.

I have never in my life watched a man pull out his own penis…

How old is this Susan Walsh? If she's out of college that's sad.

Long out of college is my impression.

When a man grabs your hand and places it on his penis without your consent, he is committing sexual assault by compelling you to touch him. Full stop. […] Consent need not be verbal, by the way.

Ye gods! Misunderstanding mine field dead ahead! You might as well declare the whole planet a prison.

No kidding!

The only way men will learn that this behavior is inappropriate and illegal is if women demonstrate that this is not “goofing around” or “flirting,” much less courting.

Or if their fathers explain it to them when told "There's this girl I like, but I don't know how to talk to her."

Or something. I would say that most people are perfectly capable of figuring this out on their own. But apparently not.

[Rope apologist]

If there were no PZ Myers, it would be necessary to invent him.

Seriously, what's with all of you bozos paying taxes and voting money for a justice system, when there are only two rules that we need to follow? 1. If a woman accuses a man of rape, he did it. 2. If PZ Myers has no reason to lie about something, he is for all intents and purposes 100% right (theoretically he could be wrong, you just can't question his claim).

But you think you need investigations, cross-examination, to discover evidence, the weighing of evidence, and protection against malicious slander and libel. The truth is that Shermer will positively benefit from charges of rape in this rape culture, for only the SJWs are even really opposed to rape, while the rest of us only pretend to be, secretly celebrating it.

[goddamn 'nym]

I take all my info on string theory from Peter Woit. His observation is that ST is on the way out in terms of new people starting in the field. But of course he might be tainted by confirmation bias.

I have a thing or two to say about Woit, but I'm not going to engage someone who won't use a goddamn 'nym.

No need to discuss Woit. And I have no clue about physics either. His observation that string theory is on the way out in physics departments was my only point. What is your impression of the situation?

[welch]

@Tribble-- yeah, those two extremes. The real number, as you note, must fall somewhere in between. But that's inconvenient for the narrative.

NB: Somebody noted above that it's important to distinguish between false accusations of someone (victim actually raped but IDs wrong person) and false claims by someone (no rape actually occurred.)

THat last one was me (someone else may have as well.) It seems a useful distinction.

[welch]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

I stopped giving much of a fuck what damien had to say a while ago.

[welch]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

xkcd meme. Do I have to find it and post the actual cartoon? Thought not.

I think the pit has some opinion leaders/opinion creators and it's at times hard to buck up against them. But it's nowhere like what happens at the FTB where the blogger often acts and encourages the hoder to mass gang up on the pit.

And since rationality does seem to still be appreciated here (as opposed to there), most times, mere bullying is not enough to sway an argument, it needs to include actual winning logic.

That plus the mostly free speech attitude around here seems to make the issue mostly trivial and largely self-correcting.

Goddamnit, I went over there and read it anyway. Fuck that was stupid. At least it was short.

[Parody Accountant]

I think we all know how Clownfall is going to end.



mark II

[Badger3k]

If there were no PZ Myers, it would be necessary to invent him.

Seriously, what's with all of you bozos paying taxes and voting money for a justice system, when there are only two rules that we need to follow? 1. If a woman accuses a man of rape, he did it. 2. If PZ Myers has no reason to lie about something, he is for all intents and purposes 100% right (theoretically he could be wrong, you just can't question his claim).

But you think you need investigations, cross-examination, to discover evidence, the weighing of evidence, and protection against malicious slander and libel. The truth is that Shermer will positively benefit from charges of rape in this rape culture, for only the SJWs are even really opposed to rape, while the rest of us only pretend to be, secretly celebrating it.

That thought just struck me reading yours - if there is a rape culture, and we excuse (or celebrate) the men who do it, then what do they think when people like Shermer take action against such allegations? Are they doing it just to keep up the fiction that society (ie Patriarchy) despises rape? I really can't wrap my head around what they might be thinking (and that assumes they are instead of just reacting emotionally), and that may be a good thing.

[welch]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

If the FTB/A+ crowd show up at his blog, he will certainly get grief for having two male gunslingers, one black (evil?), one white (goodness?) at the top of his blog. There is so much inherently wrong with that illustration...racism, violence, sexisms, misogynistic hats, gun culture, old west stereotypes, etc...from their perspective.

Nah, they'll let him off all that, because he said the Pit is as bad as they are, which is as close to a complement as they can get these days, outside of their own little on-line biscuit game.

(Oh, and should anyone else need to know, the person you have to agree with is me.)

I disagree. It's Cunt.

[welch]

Holy shit - genuinely humbling praise. Especially from one of the Maestros of the Photoshop. :)
As for quitting, I've actually been semi-retired for almost five months and what my SO feared has started to come to pass - I'm spending far too much time causing trouble on the internet.

GIMP, sirrah, GIMP. Photoshop is for the indolent bourgeoise who have money :D

Thanks for the compliment, friend. And while you're measuring for maestros, consider that Gumby's preferred tool is a software version of a kid's trike. He's building furniture with a pocketknife, but you'd never know it.

Photoshop CS2 is absolutely free and will do most of the things people want: https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitleme ... _downloads

Except run under current operating systems on the Mac side, as it's a PPC binary. So, if your Mac shipped with 10.7 or later, not an option.

[welch]

You have to say the resemblance is uncanny

http://www.annotatedmst.com/episodes/cr ... a_hoss.jpg

According to my TV Guide, McWrong is actually playing "Chub" (you have to really know your Bonanza to get that reference).

With Jason Timblydoo as Hop Sing.

[Parody Accountant]

New post from Damien makes the Pit out as just like FTB, just...I dunno. You read it, see what you think.

http://www.skepticink.com/backgroundpro ... ck-a-side/

What I want to know is, who are the "opinion leaders" here? Because I'd like to know who I'm supposed to agree with.

If the FTB/A+ crowd show up at his blog, he will certainly get grief for having two male gunslingers, one black (evil?), one white (goodness?) at the top of his blog. There is so much inherently wrong with that illustration...racism, violence, sexisms, misogynistic hats, gun culture, old west stereotypes, etc...from their perspective.

I disagree. It's Cunt.

<3 <3 <3

http://i.imgur.com/ePMzq7O.png

[welch]

I think Damion is spot on. These imaginary sides don't really accomplish anything. The skeptic movement is about promoting critical thinking over things like loyalty and emotion, so saying you are on imaginary side against another imaginary side accomplishes nothing.

However, misrepresenting either side is of no value at all.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I think we all know how Clownfall is going to end.



mark II

I still don't understand it, but better.

In future, when posting stuff based on anime memes, or whatever the fuck that was, please tag it as [Meta] so I know I'm not supposed to understand it. :D

[Rope apologist]

If there were no PZ Myers, it would be necessary to invent him.

Seriously, what's with all of you bozos paying taxes and voting money for a justice system, when there are only two rules that we need to follow? 1. If a woman accuses a man of rape, he did it. 2. If PZ Myers has no reason to lie about something, he is for all intents and purposes 100% right (theoretically he could be wrong, you just can't question his claim).

But you think you need investigations, cross-examination, to discover evidence, the weighing of evidence, and protection against malicious slander and libel. The truth is that Shermer will positively benefit from charges of rape in this rape culture, for only the SJWs are even really opposed to rape, while the rest of us only pretend to be, secretly celebrating it.

That thought just struck me reading yours - if there is a rape culture, and we excuse (or celebrate) the men who do it, then what do they think when people like Shermer take action against such allegations? Are they doing it just to keep up the fiction that society (ie Patriarchy) despises rape? I really can't wrap my head around what they might be thinking (and that assumes they are instead of just reacting emotionally), and that may be a good thing.

That's just proof of how devious Shermer is.

[Parody Accountant]

I think we all know how Clownfall is going to end.



mark II

I still don't understand it, but better.

In future, when posting stuff based on anime memes, or whatever the fuck that was, please tag it as [Meta] so I know I'm not supposed to understand it. :D

haha... I'm just dicking around in my new skillset (animated gif's). I'm saying that PZ is going to have a heart attack, also I'm like 20 or 30 animated shoops away from really honing my craft. I'll refrain from showing most publicly, but I do appreciate the feedback here.

[/meta]

[Rope apologist]

From Peezus' latest:

Maybe we need to think harder about going to a subscription model here.

Dammit, Kookaid isn't free!

[welch]

From Peezus' latest:

Maybe we need to think harder about going to a subscription model here.

Dammit, Kookaid isn't free!

yeah, charge people THEN ban them. That'll work

[VAXherd]

I didn't interpret that clip as "I don't understand it, therefore it's wrong."
I interpreted it as Feynman showing a great skeptical attitude about the general kinds of conclusions he hears from an average social scientist (and probably, VAX, judging the worst, though perhaps more vocal, of the field).

Not sure what his overall point was, since that was obviously a clip from a longer interview. But I was thinking of something specific he said (that's actually relevant to the Slympit vs FTB, especially the Evo Psych wars): His remark about having the form of science, but not the content or results.

Evaluating something outside your field is tricky, because that's the experience you'll probably have reading their papers. You can see that the layout is correct. You can usually even tell that the data collection procedure is valid, that the statistics match the data, and the conclusions match the statistics. But "What does it mean? It's all full of words that look like technical terms but don't match any that I ever heard of." That especially hits the fan when you ask, "What's the theory? How does it connect to the world?" Because, unless it's a very thick book you're reading, those questions are addressed mainly by reference. If you want to check, you'll be in the library for months.

There's also a critical thing about the skeptical "rejection" of a claim. "You have not met your burden of proof (to me)," does not entitle you to say "You are known to be wrong." If Feynman had said "No, I can't say that Social Science is real science. It doesn't make a lick of sense that I can see," that would have been fine. But he made a positive claim that was not adequately supported (with just what he said in that clip).

I see that I'm late to the party, and apparently there's a metric mukkton of youtubes of Feynman talking, but that was the first time I've seen that guy as a human, in the flesh, so to speak, and not merely text in a book. He was one of those rare ones who is just as I imagined he would be.

He is fun to listen to!

[Badger3k]

From Peezus' latest:

Maybe we need to think harder about going to a subscription model here.

Dammit, Kookaid isn't free!

Does he mean that people will have to pay for his posts? If they won't pay for his book, what makes him think they'll pay for posts? Or is he thinking of subscribing to some advertising service?

[Aneris]

I like to think that each time Peezus posts something as idiotic as this SkepticDoctor piece he loses a few commenters who are smart enough to see through the demagoguery and dishonesty. But I'm probably way too optimistic.

PZ said a long time ago that the comments were getting out of hand, and he was worried that soon only the most psychotic commenters would be left. Truest thing he ever said. The sane people have long gone, so I'm thinking whoever had the sense to run screaming from that asylum left quite some time ago.

Chris Clarke observed the same one or two times that I noticed. Since his suicide-themed thread (prior to Shmeargate) he's strangely absent, which sounds a bit gloomy actually. But he had to close it due to comments that weren't helpful. Wait, that sounded even gloomier. Well, it was a somewhat normal discussion but the comment sucked too much or something so he shut down commenting. If he's gone, I hope he just flounced, though. Anyway, wondering. While we are at, where's Phil? I hope he's too busy with his cat, that came back to him... :/

[Badger3k]

Nanny McFeeFee is being the dutiful follower, and posts PZ's delusions of skepticism approvingly.

Let’s live like that, shall we? Whenever a friend is unhappy about something – demand evidence of the unhappiness! Then demand an airtight logical argument for the unhappiness. Then give a lecture on how to develop a backbone and (use a lot of anger in the voice and facial expression here) personal responsibility. Then ask for money.

I'm not sure there's enough straw to keep them in business. Intentionally clueless or just clueless?

[Rope apologist]

I like to think that each time Peezus posts something as idiotic as this SkepticDoctor piece he loses a few commenters who are smart enough to see through the demagoguery and dishonesty. But I'm probably way too optimistic.

PZ said a long time ago that the comments were getting out of hand, and he was worried that soon only the most psychotic commenters would be left. Truest thing he ever said. The sane people have long gone, so I'm thinking whoever had the sense to run screaming from that asylum left quite some time ago.

Chris Clarke observed the same one or two times that I noticed. Since his suicide-themed thread (prior to Shmeargate) he's strangely absent, which sounds a bit gloomy actually. But he had to close it due to comments that weren't helpful. Wait, that sounded even gloomier. Well, it was a somewhat normal discussion but the comment sucked too much or something so he shut down commenting. If he's gone, I hope he just flounced, though. Anyway, wondering. While we are at, where's Phil? I hope he's too busy with his cat, that came back to him... :/

I saw Phil on the list using browsing this forum today.

More cat and fewer unphotographable animals for Phil!

[Rope apologist]

Uh, once more for clarity:

I saw Phil on the list browsing this forum today.

[Parody Accountant]

maybe he's considering a subscription to a model of another type?

http://memecrunch.com/meme/Q4O0/100-s-o ... /image.png

[Guest]

Of course I doubt that anyone cares at this point but my attempt to fit The Happy Atheist Amazon bestseller rank to a power law to determine just how many copies PeeZus is moving per week is quite probably faulty. The log-log plot of the numbers from here was not straight, but bulged away from the origin:

http://dogearpublishing.net/wordpress/i ... ublishing/

What matters is that his book has just debuted and is, as far as I can tell, not selling more than a dozen copies per day. Unless they're going "print on demand", it's most likely a fiasco for the publisher.

[Guest]

haha... I'm just dicking around in my new skillset (animated gif's). I'm saying that PZ is going to have a heart attack, also I'm like 20 or 30 animated shoops away from really honing my craft. I'll refrain from showing most publicly, but I do appreciate the feedback here.

[/meta]

I'd say you're well less than 20 or 30 shoops from perfection. I got it the first time. I might have used different material for the exploding heart at the end though.