Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

[Dick Strawkins]

Christ!
I leave you guys for a week and return to find oolon's become world famous!
Peezus must be incandescent with jealously!
His new book's about to be released and the fucking candiru's generating more media attention!

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Red Bull, fish bait, pony tail and sandals (as tigzy suggested). The oolon essence. I would pay for seeing Lsuoma's face when he opens the pit unsuspectingly right now, wondering who this dude is and then discovering the story.

Aneris, I think it was you who requested corrections on English grammar fails. Well, the bolded words in your quote should read "to see".

[Steersman]

<snip>

byw, I am hopeful you and/or other pitters (or factually, according to that wretched bit of 'reporting': "men who are raised to hate women") find a way to screenshot Oolon's strangest expression in that thing. For a moment he has one eye closed and the other wide open, looking upwards (!), if I recall correctly. Don't want to watch it again though.

Ah, you caught that too:

That GIF looks like a bit of a cheap shot I think.

While I think he’s a bit of a dickhead – not least for refusing to acknowledge that it was a Pharyngulite who first publicly connected all the dots in Skep tickle’s doxing, although I’ll give him some credit on that score as he acknowledged part of that on Lousy Canuck’s blog, I also think that making malicious fun of irrelevant mannerisms or behaviours or attributes isn’t quite cricket.

[ReneeHendricks]

I realize that Renee and Submariner and the others are busy with Skeptic-schism(which is looking good BTW)but I miss seeing them here.

Here I am :) I've actually been very busy with work. It's nice to be missed :D

[Steersman]

I realize that Renee and Submariner and the others are busy with Skeptic-schism(which is looking good BTW)but I miss seeing them here.

Here I am :) I've actually been very busy with work. It's nice to be missed :D

Particularly if you're being shot at .... :rimshot:

[Cunning Punt]

Yemmy's got a new poem out. I'm guessing she's broomed the tsunami then: http://freethoughtblogs.com/yemmynisting/?p=1232

Sound of the bees buzzing
Everything is getting fuzzy
As you nimble on my nipples
Your tongue in me dribbles

Yemministing. Supplying services to celibacy since 2013.

Kate Bush she ain't.

[welch]

I don't have Twitter but I'm following it like a bitch right now.
I think Oolon has seriously dropped himself in the shit with the Block_Bot.

I love that he's trying to say BUT YOU'RE ONLY LEVEL 3, THAT'S NOT THE SAME.

No son, it is. In everyone's mind but yours, if you're on the block bot list, you're a rapist. I'm sorry you're that stupid, but that is how this works.

[welch]

I don't think I ever twitted anythong remotely abusive. Correct me if I'm wrong.

nor have I, but I'm on there as well.

It's fairly obvious that Oolio's never planned on anyone actually doing research on this stupid thing.

[welch]

Any of you muthafuckas know anything about this?:

Looks like Oolon's failboat is finally sailing home.

if anyone on the block list would block the bot back, it would be gone already. Generally, people can sure share a list of block-worthy people. Their freedom. The problem is when its used to smear people by conflating all kinds of things.

I thought about an art project, a public list of “fascists, holocaust-deniers, child molesters, rapists and other people I personally don't like” and then add oloon, Benson, Zvan and co. to it. They certainly fit in, don't they? Sure, that would backfire. It's okay when they do it, though.

blocked.

same here.

[guest2]

It's fairly obvious that Oolio's never planned on anyone actually doing research on this stupid thing.

Well the reporter with the BBC evidently confirmed this expectation.

[welch]

Sharon Hill is not impressed with oolio:

[dogen]

Red Bull, fish bait, pony tail and sandals (as tigzy suggested). The oolon essence. I would pay for seeing Lsuoma's face when he opens the pit unsuspectingly right now, wondering who this dude is and then discovering the story.

Aneris, I think it was you who requested corrections on English grammar fails. Well, the bolded words in your quote should read "to see".

Can you explain why? (Not that I disagree with you -- but as a native English speaker I have often difficulty explaining why things are said one way and not the other).

[KiwiInOz]

Red Bull, fish bait, pony tail and sandals (as tigzy suggested). The oolon essence. I would pay for seeing Lsuoma's face when he opens the pit unsuspectingly right now, wondering who this dude is and then discovering the story.

Aneris, I think it was you who requested corrections on English grammar fails. Well, the bolded words in your quote should read "to see".

Can you explain why? (Not that I disagree with you -- but as a native English speaker I have often difficulty explaining why things are said one way and not the other).

I'm no grammartarian (paging Corylus or Miranda [or Gefan]) but I suspect that it has something to do with verbs and tenses. One pays to see something that will occur in the future, whereas seeing implies that it is currently happening.

Or not.

[DownThunder]

That GIF looks like a bit of a cheap shot I think.

While I think he’s a bit of a dickhead – not least for refusing to acknowledge that it was a Pharyngulite who first publicly connected all the dots in Skep tickle’s doxing, although I’ll give him some credit on that score as he acknowledged part of that on Lousy Canuck’s blog, I also think that making malicious fun of irrelevant mannerisms or behaviours or attributes isn’t quite cricket.

Yes. The guy is a dishonest turd, but that was my opinion before I had any clue what he looked like. His appearance is low-hanging-fruit and continuing to focus on that is only going to make me feel sorry for him. And Ill smear myself in herpes pus before I feel sorry for Oooooooooolon.

[Gumby]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

[Gumby]

Yes. The guy is a dishonest turd, but that was my opinion before I had any clue what he looked like. His appearance is low-hanging-fruit and continuing to focus on that is only going to make me feel sorry for him. And Ill smear myself in herpes pus before I feel sorry for Oooooooooolon.

Meh. Oolon just slandered a lot of people whose only crime was disagreeing with the people he sucks up to, calling them "abusers" and "harassers" on the BBC. He can suck it. I have no sympathy for that miserable shitstain.

[ianfc]

This one will be hard to beat. Not fucking cricket at all.

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

[KiwiInOz]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

Dear Abbie,

Should I feel bad for laughing at something that is so delightfully vicious as Gumby's wOolon?

Signed
Worried with wet pants from laughing

[Parody Accountant]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

I almost pooped. I laughed an unhealthy amount... almost called poison control.

[Parody Accountant]

seriously the best shit I've ever seen. HAHAHAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHHA.

[Bhurzum]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

You utter bastard!

I laughed.

I shat.

I done "March of the penguins" to the bathroom.

You owe me a pair of boxers.

[AndrewV69]

From the book How Civilizations Die: (And Why Islam Is Dying Too)

An excerpt:

Secular rationalists have difficulty identifying with the motives of existentially challenged peoples—not so much because they lack faith, but because they entertain faith in rationality itself, and believe with the enthusiasm of the convert in the ability of reason to explain all of human experience.

Note: The author is David P Goldman who I believe I have mentioned here before, and who writes under the pseudonym of Spengler for Asia Times Online and who sometimes mentions Wittgenstein but much more frequently, that bugger Rosenzweig.

This is a review of the book by Reuven Brenner that takes exception to Goldman linking faith to fertility. For example here:

I remain unconvinced that diminished religious faith can be directly linked to fertility. Ancient Rome’s civilization disappeared when its population was cut in half by the plague***, not private decisions.

And here:

Thus, the problem with the declining civilizations may not be abandoning Christendom, or sticking to Islam or other state religion, but rather living in societies without freedoms.

We will see I guess? It is stuff like this that makes me want to live a couple centuries more, just to see how some of this stuff shakes out in reality.

*** He may have a point about Rome and the plague:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of ... man_Empire

William H. McNeill, a world historian, noted in chapter three of his book Plagues and Peoples (1976) that the Roman Empire suffered the severe and protracted Antonine Plague starting around 165 AD. For about twenty years, waves of one or more diseases, possibly the first epidemics of smallpox and/or measles, swept through the Empire, ultimately killing about half the population. Similar epidemics, such as the Plague of Cyprian, also occurred in the 3rd century. McNeill argues that the severe fall in population left the state apparatus and army too large for the population to support, leading to further economic and social decline that eventually killed the Western Empire. The Eastern half survived due to its larger population, which even after the plagues was sufficient for an effective state apparatus.

[welch]

Yes. The guy is a dishonest turd, but that was my opinion before I had any clue what he looked like. His appearance is low-hanging-fruit and continuing to focus on that is only going to make me feel sorry for him. And Ill smear myself in herpes pus before I feel sorry for Oooooooooolon.

Meh. Oolon just slandered a lot of people whose only crime was disagreeing with the people he sucks up to, calling them "abusers" and "harassers" on the BBC. He can suck it. I have no sympathy for that miserable shitstain.

I'm with you on that. I refuse to play by some kind of exalted ruleset when dealing with a dumbass like Oolio. When he decides to start treating me with the respect he theoretically deserves, only then shall i give a fuck about him. Until then, the walleyed little fuckstick can deal.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Yes. The guy is a dishonest turd, but that was my opinion before I had any clue what he looked like. His appearance is low-hanging-fruit and continuing to focus on that is only going to make me feel sorry for him. And Ill smear myself in herpes pus before I feel sorry for Oooooooooolon.

I know some guys who are hiring right now for that kind of shit. Two hours in a lockup in Brooklyn, with cameras, travel expenses, may be animals up the ass. Message me.

[welch]

I have to say, I am highly amused by Damion Reindhardt's outrage at the blockbot. (also his lack of knowledge. It's pretty much always been three tiered.) How DARE they...yeah...I mean, it's not like anyone at SiN would ever be that sleazy.

right Justin?

[AndrewV69]

@Steersman,

That was a hilarious comment thread between you and Melby I am especially fond of this one:
http://sinmantyx.wordpress.com/2013/06/ ... omment-772

Yes – if you go by the nym “Cunning Punt” you are a sexist asshole.

Just like if you had the nym “Lynchy Mc.LYncherton” you would be a racist asshole.

Lawl! I think I see what one of your problems are Melby.

[zenbabe]

That's it.. lol.. ack!
I would give you a hearty "fuck you" for animating it so horrendously, but I can't because you're in mourning!

Haha! No, it's okay! It's been a couple of weeks and my missus and I are picking out pictures for printing. Thinking of her finally gives us smiles, instead of the blues. A hearty FUCK YOU is what I could use right now, so I'll take it and extend a hale F-U in return. Thanks, Zenbabe.

Nono!
I must insist!
Thank you and fuck right the hell OFF for the following stuff of nightmares, sir!

More horrendous animations...

Oolon having a King of All the Ladies moment... hey, baby:



Ruminating hard before he farts and his head empties:

Hehehehehe!
Also, Yuck!

Poor Steersman, alas, Oolon is the shiny red button very few of us can resist. That stupid defamatory bot of his, for which he got his glorious interview and his face plastered upon all of us innocent bystanders, is nothing but an exercise in guilt by association. I got on it after maybe 5 innocuous tweets and exactly one "red letter" follower, who was the @SubMan, at which point my account was suspended spamming, or something about being "excessive".

I feel no shame in taking great delight in all this mockery :teasing-neener:

[zenbabe]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

Droolin' Oolon :D

Excellent, Gumby!

[Steersman]

<snip>
Oolon having a King of All the Ladies moment... hey, baby:



Ruminating hard before he farts and his head empties:



Hehehehehe!
Also, Yuck!

Poor Steersman, alas, Oolon is the shiny red button very few of us can resist. That stupid defamatory bot of his, for which he got his glorious interview and his face plastered upon all of us innocent bystanders, is nothing but an exercise in guilt by association. I got on it after maybe 5 innocuous tweets and exactly one "red letter" follower, who was the @SubMan, at which point my account was suspended spamming, or something about being "excessive".

I feel no shame in taking great delight in all this mockery :teasing-neener:

Forestalling, or at least delaying the Rush to Judgement is a tough job; but someone has to do it. ;-)

As mentioned, I think it looks like Oolon’s credibility is tanking for some quite plausible reasons, but I can’t help feeling some sympathy at least for his efforts to address a not insignificant problem – even if his implementation has a few flaws: “between the dream and the reality lies the shadow”.

Something which is addressed in some detail by Lindy West over on Jezebel which Ophelia had mentioned although she neglected to provide the link. But West quite reasonably argued:

The danger is that "report abuse" button could easily be used against the people it's intended to protect. When trolls* created a fake Facebook profile for me during the Great Rape Joke Kerfuffle of 2013 (mostly to express how much I hate rape and love donuts, because comedy), and I attempted to have it shut down, my genuine account wound up getting reported and suspended in retaliation. .... I can see both sides—though mostly what I see right now is how hard the entire system is rigged to fuck women over.

While I think her bias is showing in her “the entire system is rigged to fuck women over”, I also think it a credible argument that women get far more flack than is reasonable, and that it is seriously crossing the line. While I’m not averse to calling some guy a dickhead, or some woman a cunt – even a fat one – at least provided there’s some credible justification for it, I would say a lot of what West and others are describing qualifies as serious harrassment. Which justifies some efforts to limit it, even if there happens to be few problematic devils in the details.

[bovarchist]

Red Bull, fish bait, pony tail and sandals (as tigzy suggested). The oolon essence. I would pay for seeing Lsuoma's face when he opens the pit unsuspectingly right now, wondering who this dude is and then discovering the story.

Aneris, I think it was you who requested corrections on English grammar fails. Well, the bolded words in your quote should read "to see".

Can you explain why? (Not that I disagree with you -- but as a native English speaker I have often difficulty explaining why things are said one way and not the other).

You my friend need to go pick up Stephen Pinker's book The Stuff of Thought. It will give you all the grammar-theorizing you can hold down.

[Wonky Donkey]

And this is indeed the problem with a block list selected by a community and why Twitter would not use it. When richarddawkins.net front page decided to use a scoring system to hide posts by trolls it was almost immediately abused by the front page clique to "pile on" posters whose opinions they did not like.

Same thing here, the insular community contains a smaller percentage of motivated people who act as judge and jury on who the community gets to read or does not get to read, a little like Scieno Sitter. The majority of the aforementioned community does not check out whether or not their self appointed guardians have got it right.

As a once-member of said clique, I demand evidence for such spurious claim.

Of course. decius. In full high dudgeon mode sounding like an echo of Nerd of Redhead.

I'm intrigued does your memory not cast back to the closed forum set up for a smaller part of the clique to discuss a meetup that quickly evolved into a back channel for bitching about other posters that you were part of? Just wondering if you have started to flush around the ears now? Or are you going to claim that never existed ... ?

To the best of my recollection, such system never existed.

I'm glad you used words like to the best of my recollection because as you and I both know the front page has been demolished and pruned many times.

In the beginning, the Front Page was totally unmoderated. As more vitriolic tourists joined in, Dawkins hired a bunch of moderators.
Other users and I authored a document and persuaded him to implement experimental self-moderation, but there were no buttons and absolutely no way to censor other users, only peer-pressure to adhere to certain standards of discourse, which the vast majority found to be fair and unobtrusive.

Dawkins hired a bunch of moderators who went over the top and applied draconian actions which caused a massive panty wad explosion. Yes, other users AND you did author the document, and Dawkins spoke privately to Steve Zara about it who explained the problem which in conjunction with the document. This caused Richard to look at what had gone on and he criticised the front page moderators for their heavy stick vs gentle word moderation.

Eventually, due to a small contingent of troglodytes who couldn't abide by simple rules of courtesy, Dawkins changed his mind and hired again a bunch of strict moderators. And that was the end of an era, really.

However you seem to have forgotten or missed the part when you could report (which downvoted) and disappeared posts or thank/praise (which upvoted) posts. I don't remember you being that active

Sorry, I was there too, and right in with the clique (a mistake I won't be making again) but not so much I can delude myself about how the tools were misused.

If evidence of the worst part of the era have survived various site revisions and front page demolitions you can find the evidence yourself.

[sacha]

uh oh

[sacha]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

excellent

[Steersman]

@Steersman,

That was a hilarious comment thread between you and Melby I am especially fond of this one:
http://sinmantyx.wordpress.com/2013/06/ ... omment-772

Yes – if you go by the nym “Cunning Punt” you are a sexist asshole.

Just like if you had the nym “Lynchy Mc.LYncherton” you would be a racist asshole.

Lawl! I think I see what one of your problems are Melby.

Indeed.

But I think she makes some good points, and gives some suggestion she hasn’t yet drunk a lethal amount of the Kool-Aid – for example her “There are also some individuals [on Pharyngula who], I’m sorry, are absolutely toxic” – although I think she has a few blind spots – we all have them, I think – notably on the question of language, your example being a case in point. And I do have to give her some credit for at least attempting to raise some issues I had on Lousy Canuck’s blog by posting a comment there herself.

[zenbabe]

Poor Steersman, alas, Oolon is the shiny red button very few of us can resist. That stupid defamatory bot of his, for which he got his glorious interview and his face plastered upon all of us innocent bystanders, is nothing but an exercise in guilt by association. I got on it after maybe 5 innocuous tweets and exactly one "red letter" follower, who was the @SubMan, at which point my account was suspended spamming, or something about being "excessive".

I feel no shame in taking great delight in all this mockery :teasing-neener:

Forestalling, or at least delaying the Rush to Judgement is a tough job; but someone has to do it. ;-)

Dear Serious Steersman, I think that deeply thoughtful man in his boat could take off his babysitter hat and put on the fedora, once in a while, just for fun ;)

As mentioned, I think it looks like Oolon’s credibility is tanking for some quite plausible reasons, but I can’t help feeling some sympathy at least for his efforts to address a not insignificant problem – even if his implementation has a few flaws: “between the dream and the reality lies the shadow”.

Even if I give you the premise that his intentions originally were reasonable (which I don't believe), in implementation the block bot is capricious and petty, and at heart ugly and vicious. You realize, you're on it? You and I are roughly the same "level", on about the same page. The bot is shorthand, it allows Oolon, and anyone he is trying so hard to please, to believe you and I are mysoginists and rape apologists/advocates, and harassers. We are scum and villainy, you and me. What if we tweeted with our real names?

The implication in that BBC interview was that Twitter should make that damn thing broadly available!

It's ridiculous. He richly deserves this mockery.

(snip)

I also think it a credible argument that women get far more flack than is reasonable, and that it is seriously crossing the line. While I’m not averse to calling some guy a dickhead, or some woman a cunt – even a fat one – at least provided there’s some credible justification for it, I would say a lot of what West and others are describing qualifies as serious harrassment. Which justifies some efforts to limit it, even if there happens to be few problematic devils in the details.

I can't imagine you ever calling someone a fat cunt. haha!!

Placing a bar between what's harassment and what isn't is far too prone to subjectivity, unless we position it high enough to be actually meaningful. Oolon's bot sets it in the Mariana Trench.

[Steersman]

uh oh

Quite right. My impression was that she was somewhat of a "tough cookie", one not likely to let that stuff get under her skin. But if that is the case then it does suggest that the level of "toxicity" has reached alarming levels.

Curious too, the comment about the "belligerent" atheists - one of the problematic aspects of the "New Atheism" I think. Many of whom are just as dogmatic as the Westboro Baptists. Reminds me of something from Pinker:

Bertrand Russell wrote, “The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists – that is why they invented hell”. [pg 270]

And many of the "New Atheists" seem to delight in the same "infliction of cruelty", and justify that with a "good conscience". As Pogo said, "We have seen the enemy, and he is us".

[John Greg]

Steersman said:

My impression was that she was somewhat of a "tough cookie", one not likely to let that stuff get under her skin.

Then your impression is quite flawed. Yes, she often speaks her mind about her opponents, which gives the impression that she's willing to speak her mind and hence tough skinned, but she is in fact very, very thin skinned.

I guess you weren't around in the early says of ERV's original blog and the initial start up of Phawrongula, but she threw several screaming raging fits of quite directed hate at people who did little more than point out that she might be wrong in some of her assumptions, and that she was occasionally overreactive, self-contradictory, and thin skinned.

[AndrewV69]

In other news yesterday I finished the Thesis titled : "Socio-Economic and cultural factors underlying the contemporary revival of fraternal polyandry in Tibet". Anyway, if the thesis is to too long for you to bothr with here is a three page article that covers polyandry and what drives it.

So, why Polyandry?
In rural Tibet it is for socio-economic reasons rather than cultural.
• it concentrates male labour in the household.
• it prevents the division of a household's land among sons.
• greater potential to exploit off-farm economic opportunities

So, all the available economic activities are covered :
• farming
• herding
• working outside of the village for cash

Tibetans consider it to be a means towards an end strategy that households use to maintain and/or increase their economic status, and not something to practise to fulfil some sort of cultural imperative.

Nonetheless generally polyandry is regarded as complex form of marriage that is more difficult to sustain than monogamy and the key responsibility for managing relationships in successful polyandrous marriages fell on the eldest son and the wife. Those who can do this are highly respected and valued.

So, quite apart from everything else, what really struck me was the overall pragmatic approach towards sex and marriage by the rural land owning Tibetans. Not that "love" was out of the picture but the emphasis appeared to be more on compatibility and inter-personal relationships.

In the Dechen village polyandry was seen as an ideal method of improving economic status by both the men and women engaged in it and by the majority of the villagers (77.2%) and polygny is considered the least valued form of marriage.

Note that when we talk about economic status in this context that rice, butter, meat, new clothing and new furniture are counted as luxury items.

Tibetans in Dechen and elsewhere do not practise polyandry because it is simple or easy. They choose it because it is beneficial. But that is not the only form of marriage practised.

Consider the following and the implicit underlying attitudes towards sex.

Fraternal polyandry
Two or more brother marry the same woman. Most common is two to three husbands with four and five not considered ideal and rare.

Bigenerational polyandry
Father and son can share a wife (given the wife is not the son's mother)

Pologny apparently is rare in comparison to monogamy and polyandry but not uncommon and can include the bigenerational and sororal forms.

Bigenerational polygny
Where a male married an aunt and her niece
Mother and daughter(s) can share one husband (given the husband is not the daughter's father)

Sororal polygyny
Two sister marry two brothers

Rarest form was Polygynandrous marriages.
Examples are two unrelated wives married to two brothers, and two sisters married to four brothers,

In the latter example it was explained that the wife was married to four brothers. That eventually she became concerned that one of the younger brothers was going to leave because of the age difference between the wife and the younger brother, and take the other younger brother out of the marriage with him.

So what she did was to approach her parents and arranged for her younger sister, who was closer in age to the two younger brothers to marry them also.

[Steersman]

Steersman said:

My impression was that she was somewhat of a "tough cookie", one not likely to let that stuff get under her skin.

Then your impression is quite flawed. Yes, she often speaks her mind about her opponents, which gives the impression that she's willing to speak her mind and hence tough skinned, but she is in fact very, very thin skinned.

I guess you weren't around in the early says of ERV's original blog and the initial start up of Phawrongula, but she threw several screaming raging fits of quite directed hate at people who did little more than point out that she might be wrong in some of her assumptions, and that she was occasionally overreactive, self-contradictory, and thin skinned.

Thanks for the correction and the information. I seem to recollect a comment from Zvan about her that she might have a bias or two, or bend the truth a little to support her position - something we all have a tendency to do, I think. But I never had the time to dig into the details, so maybe there was some justification for that comment. I might look through the archives if I find the time.

[Steersman]

<snip>
I feel no shame in taking great delight in all this mockery :teasing-neener:

Forestalling, or at least delaying the Rush to Judgement is a tough job; but someone has to do it. ;-)

Dear Serious Steersman, I think that deeply thoughtful man in his boat could take off his babysitter hat and put on the fedora, once in a while, just for fun ;)

:-) I kind of like Aneris’ signature: “... take nothing seriously while regarding everything as Serious Business”.

Even if I give you the premise that his intentions originally were reasonable (which I don't believe), in implementation the block bot is capricious and petty, and at heart ugly and vicious.

I can probably agree with you about the “capricious, petty, ugly, and vicious” as the consequences seem to readily support that judgement. But judging other people’s intentions? I at least find that a little hard to do – maybe not surprising since I got 33 in that AQ test – same as my Twitter score, I think – to which Phil thinks a zero should be added at the end. ;-) But, to quote Pinker again, he had an interesting quote from Matt Ridley:

The tragedy of reciprocal altruism is that sacrifices on behalf of nonrelatives cannot survive without a web of disagreeable emotions like anxiety, mistrust, guilt, shame, and anger. As the journalist Matt Ridley puts it in his survey of the evolution of cooperation:

Reciprocity hangs, like a sword of Damocles, over every human head. He’s only asking me to his party so I’ll give his book a good review. They’ve been to dinner twice and never asked us back once. After all I did for him, how could he do that to me? If you do this for me, I promise I’ll make it up later. What did I do to deserve that? You owe it to me. Obligation; debt; favour; bargain; exchange; deal .... Our language and our lives are permeated with ideas of reciprocity.

[pg256]

As I’ve argued before, I think that quid pro quo is part of the warp and woof of society if not of reality itself. But the problems seem to multiply like dragon’s teeth because intentions are not quite as easy to discern or quantify as are more objective quantities. Why I think there’s some justification for that dating model which was suggested in a YouTube video here not long ago.

You realize, you're on it? You and I are roughly the same "level", on about the same page. The bot is shorthand, it allows Oolon, and anyone he is trying so hard to please, to believe you and I are misogynists and rape apologists/advocates, and harassers. We are scum and villainy, you and me. What if we tweeted with our real names?

“I’m famous! On the cover of The Rolling Stone! [Bought 5 copies for my mother!]” ;-)

Yea, I checked it out after seeing Stangroom’s tweet the other day. Although I figure we had gone beyond the pale simply for commenting here – might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb – so I’m more amused by it than anything else, even if others aren’t able to be quite as sanguine. However, I will concede that there are no few problems – as West suggested – with what seems little more than mob justice. But again, I think intent is a rather hard thing to gauge.

The implication in that BBC interview was that Twitter should make that damn thing broadly available!

It's ridiculous. He richly deserves this mockery.

Certainly the whole concept deserves some serious analysis before anything remotely like it is implemented – not least for the mechanics of the process. West quoted some statistics to the effect that Twitter generates some 400 million tweets every day – rather difficult to moderate that type of “discussion”.

And he probably deserves some mockery. Don’t see that he deserves what appears to be some maliciousness though.

I can't imagine you ever calling someone a fat cunt. haha!!

:-) Stephanie Zvan and, with some variations in the adjectives, several other FftB ladies – and I use the term loosely. But generally always in response to insults leveled at me first which they generally justified by insisting that their insults were well within the pale whereas mine crossed the line into “slurs” [they keep using that word; I do not think it means what they think it means] and “splash damage”. Which I think has to qualify as the most egregiously hypocritical “debating technique” I have ever seen.

Placing a bar between what's harassment and what isn't is far too prone to subjectivity, unless we position it high enough to be actually meaningful. Oolon's bot sets it in the Mariana Trench.

:-) Indeed. But lots of room for improvement then.

[Gefan]

Ah, you caught that too:

It looks like a wildly malfunctioning animatronic effect. I imagine a couple of techs are just out of frame, wrestling with the controls, desperately trying to fix it before James Cameron comes storming over and rips them both a new one.

[Steersman]

In other news yesterday I finished the Thesis titled : "Socio-Economic and cultural factors underlying the contemporary revival of fraternal polyandry in Tibet". Anyway, if the thesis is to too long for you to bothr with here is a three page article that covers polyandry and what drives it.
<snip>

Somewhat along the same line, you might be interested in this post by Miri over on Brute Reason on the topic of “How Do I Get My Partner To Try Polyamory?” She certainly seems to get around, in more ways than one.

[Skep tickle]

Bluharmony & EllenBeth on why they think they were added to the Block Bot, with others adding comments. Oolon chimes in. One woman adds that she's surprised she's NOT on it, as she's been (mistakenly) labeled a Slymepitter.

https://twitter.com/bluharmony/status/3 ... 9779286017

I linked it as a url so hopefully y'all can read ~12 tweets in the string (not just the 2 that show up when I use the tweet code)

I've replied to the last lady that she should check the list again tomorrow, maybe she will have been added.

[Skep tickle]

Bluharmony & EllenBeth on why they think they were added to the Block Bot, with others adding comments. Oolon chimes in. One woman adds that she's surprised she's NOT on it, as she's been (mistakenly) labeled a Slymepitter.

https://twitter.com/bluharmony/status/3 ... 9779286017

I linked it as a url so hopefully y'all can read ~12 tweets in the string (not just the 2 that show up when I use the tweet code)

I've replied to the last lady that she should check the list again tomorrow, maybe she will have been added.

LOL, oops, I looked more closely at the photo at the last account in the exchange above & I believe I erred in my assumption about the person's gender category. Sorry, sir! (If you read this. Well, even if you don't.)

[Gefan]

...Somewhat along the same line, you might be interested in this post by Miri over on Brute Reason on the topic of “How Do I Get My Partner To Try Polyamory?” She certainly seems to get around, in more ways than one.

Steers, can you elaborate a bit on that last sentence? To me, it reads like disapproval of her personal lifestyle choices (I read the linked article and thought it sounded pretty reasonable).

[KiwiInOz]

Bluharmony & EllenBeth on why they think they were added to the Block Bot, with others adding comments. Oolon chimes in. One woman adds that she's surprised she's NOT on it, as she's been (mistakenly) labeled a Slymepitter.

https://twitter.com/bluharmony/status/3 ... 9779286017

I linked it as a url so hopefully y'all can read ~12 tweets in the string (not just the 2 that show up when I use the tweet code)

I've replied to the last lady that she should check the list again tomorrow, maybe she will have been added.

What is this twitter thing you young kids are talking about?

[Steersman]

Bluharmony & EllenBeth on why they think they were added to the Block Bot, with others adding comments. Oolon chimes in. One woman adds that she's surprised she's NOT on it, as she's been (mistakenly) labeled a Slymepitter.

https://twitter.com/bluharmony/status/3 ... 9779286017

I linked it as a url so hopefully y'all can read ~12 tweets in the string (not just the 2 that show up when I use the tweet code)

I've replied to the last lady that she should check the list again tomorrow, maybe she will have been added.

What is this twitter thing you young kids are talking about?

Oolon and his “Block-Bot” were profiled on BBC yesterday, and it seems to have generated some heat.

[Steersman]

...Somewhat along the same line, you might be interested in this post by Miri over on Brute Reason on the topic of “How Do I Get My Partner To Try Polyamory?” She certainly seems to get around, in more ways than one.

Steers, can you elaborate a bit on that last sentence? To me, it reads like disapproval of her personal lifestyle choices (I read the linked article and thought it sounded pretty reasonable).

The phrase does have a bit of a pejorative echo, doesn’t it? Which wasn’t really my intent as I don’t think the life-style necessarily justifies any opprobrium – I was peripherally involved with a woman who was into it and she didn’t seem particularly conflicted or unhappy about it. But it also seems that it can work for some people, Henry and June for example, not so well for others. Which, if I'm not mistaken (I only skimmed the post), Miri took some pains to point out.

[bovarchist]

Ah, you caught that too:

It looks like a wildly malfunctioning animatronic effect. I imagine a couple of techs are just out of frame, wrestling with the controls, desperately trying to fix it before James Cameron comes storming over and rips them both a new one.

Silly rabbit, James Cameron doesn't use animatronics anymore!

[Gefan]

Ah, you caught that too:

It looks like a wildly malfunctioning animatronic effect. I imagine a couple of techs are just out of frame, wrestling with the controls, desperately trying to fix it before James Cameron comes storming over and rips them both a new one.

Silly rabbit, James Cameron doesn't use animatronics anymore!

I was thinking "Aliens" - era Cameron (ie. when his movies were still watchable).

I think I feel an Al-esque "get off my lawn!" coming on.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

I don't have Twitter but I'm following it like a bitch right now.
I think Oolon has seriously dropped himself in the shit with the Block_Bot.

I love that he's trying to say BUT YOU'RE ONLY LEVEL 3, THAT'S NOT THE SAME.

No son, it is. In everyone's mind but yours, if you're on the block bot list, you're a rapist. I'm sorry you're that stupid, but that is how this works.

I'm a level 2, which states:

Level 2 blocking: these are the abusive subset of anti-feminists, MRAs, or all-round assholes who think nothing of tweeting their much loved photoshopped pictures, memes and other wonderful media directly into your timeline to get attention (Listen to Meee!!1!). This level also includes the “parody” accounts, if you have better things to do with your life than “disagree” on Twitter with a parody of yourself that seems to have suffered a frontal lobotomy.

It's a fucking shame for oolon that none of my tweets ever even remotely look like this description. Because now it's pure libel, and I will sue. Talked with my brother-in-law (who's a lawyer, so REALLY in law), and it's very doable.

Oh, and James, I screencapped both your list and your descriptions. Resistance is futile!

[AndrewV69]

In other news yesterday I finished the Thesis titled : "Socio-Economic and cultural factors underlying the contemporary revival of fraternal polyandry in Tibet". Anyway, if the thesis is to too long for you to bothr with here is a three page article that covers polyandry and what drives it.
<snip>

Somewhat along the same line, you might be interested in this post by Miri over on Brute Reason on the topic of “How Do I Get My Partner To Try Polyamory?” She certainly seems to get around, in more ways than one.

I had a quick look, skimmed it actually and my take is generally different strokes for different folks. If I have a choice I would go for either an ONS or mogonomy.

The only way I could do any sort of poly or indeed monogamy would be polygamy but with the same condition, that no wife would live with me under the same roof. Perhaps it has simply been my bad luck or something but my experience with women is that they do things that drive me insane.

Doing nothing.
For some reason this seems to drive women insane when I do it. I am perfectly happy doing "nothing" while reading, writing or playing a video game. This seems to compel women to find some busywork for me to do. Like rearranging the furniture.

Rearranging Furniture
What is it with women that they have to periodically rearrange the furniture? What unholy reason is the cause? Why do THEY decide that everything must be rearranged? Why do I have to spend hours moving stuff around while they fucking experiment with all kinds of locations? If a woman wants to rearrange the furniture she should do it herself. Plan it on paper with cut-outs or something but I am not going to spend hours doing that shit again.

Variable locations.
Stuff gets put away in variable locations. I am the type of guy that if you want to hide something from me in the fridge, all you have to do is move it from where it is usually kept and put it on the centre shelf at the front. I will not see it right in front of me because it has fucking disappeared and it will take me 45 minutes to find it and only after I have unpacked the contents of the fucking fridge first.

Management
For some reason all women seem to think that they must manage my personal life to their satisfaction and for my own good of course. The fact that I might want to have some say is of no account and clearly wrong. The following is just one example:

When my children were young my ex-wife employed a Nanny to look after them while she attended to other matters. As my children were too young to fly on their own, I used to employ the same Nanny to accompany them, handle their passports and so forth and look after them when they stayed with me twice every year. This went on for quite a few years, and well past the time when they could travel on their own.

We all got along quite well but unbeknownst to me, at some point the Nanny decided that I should remarry, and she was going to do something about it. First, it was gentle hints that completely escaped me at the time and only became clear to me in retrospect. Then over the years, I started receiving stronger hints and suggestions and one year I finally realized what what going on, when she not only arranged for me to meet her niece, who just happened to live in Toronto, but strongly suggested that the young lady in question was unattached and quite eligible, and it was way past time that I got married again.

Anyway, she is now retired in Florida and still calls me every few months to check up on me, and she still suggests informs me that I must get married again.

/sigh

[Aneris]

@AndrewV69
The summary of the Tibet thesis was interesting, thanks. And your last one was quite cute. What's wrong with rearranging furniture? :)

[rayshul]

Rearranging Furniture
What is it with women that they have to periodically rearrange the furniture? What unholy reason is the cause? Why do THEY decide that everything must be rearranged? Why do I have to spend hours moving stuff around while they fucking experiment with all kinds of locations? If a woman wants to rearrange the furniture she should do it herself. Plan it on paper with cut-outs or something but I am not going to spend hours doing that shit again.

I've always thought rearranging furniture was a specifically male preoccupation/obsession.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

We never rearrange furniture. The tobacco stains on my former flat's walls can prove it.

[Verklagekasper]

Contrary to what http://www.theblockbot.com suggests (and which, sadly, has also been purported on BBC Nightnews), the Block Bot does NOT only block. A view in the Block Bot sources reveals this:

https://github.com/ool0n/twitter_shared ... lockem.php

Code: Select all

...
if ($is_spam){
   $connection->post('users/report_spam', array('user_id' => $x_users_to_block[$x]));
   log_it("INFO","SPAM BLOCKED USER : ".$x_users_to_block[$x]." FOR USER ".$current_user);
} else {
  $connection->post('blocks/create', array('user_id' => $x_users_to_block[$x]));
  log_it("INFO","BLOCKED USER : ".$x_users_to_block[$x]." FOR USER ".$current_user);
}
...

Whereas "blocks/create" is the Twitter API command to block a user, "users/report_spam" does not only block a user but also report the user as a spam account to Twitter.
The difference is vital: When you mass block someone, this usually doesn't mean that his account gets suspended. However, when you mass spam report someone, this will most certainly get his Twitter accound suspended.
ool0n has a tool at his hands that allows him and an anonymous group of "administrators" to suspend any Twitter account. To send an account into Twitter Nirwana, all they have to do is send a message to the Block Bot including the name of the user and the hashtags "#level1" and "#spam" (instead of "#block", which would yield mere blocking).

This feature isn't mentioned on http://www.theblockbot.com. Particulary, the signup page fails to mention this extra functionality, suggesting that the bot would only block. None of the Block Bot users have authorized ool0n to spam report in their name. They are not even aware of this "extra feature".
This renders the feature a backdoor functionality and the Block Bot a Trojan. Just as common Trojans are used to create networks of remote-controlled computers which then are used for DOS-attacks etc., ool0n has used his Twitter Block Bot to create a network of Twitter accounts that he and his allies can remote control to suspend any Twitter account they deem unworthy of being present on Twitter.

[Gumby]

Contrary to what http://www.theblockbot.com suggests (and which, sadly, has also been purported on BBC Nightnews), the Block Bot does NOT only block. A view in the Block Bot sources reveals this:

https://github.com/ool0n/twitter_shared ... lockem.php

Code: Select all

...
if ($is_spam){
   $connection->post('users/report_spam', array('user_id' => $x_users_to_block[$x]));
   log_it("INFO","SPAM BLOCKED USER : ".$x_users_to_block[$x]." FOR USER ".$current_user);
} else {
  $connection->post('blocks/create', array('user_id' => $x_users_to_block[$x]));
  log_it("INFO","BLOCKED USER : ".$x_users_to_block[$x]." FOR USER ".$current_user);
}
...

Whereas "blocks/create" is the Twitter API command to block a user, "users/report_spam" does not only block a user but also report the user as a spam account to Twitter.
The difference is vital: When you mass block someone, this usually doesn't mean that his account gets suspended. However, when you mass spam report someone, this will most certainly get his Twitter accound suspended.
ool0n has a tool at his hands that allows him and an anonymous group of "administrators" to suspend any Twitter account. To send an account into Twitter Nirwana, all they have to do is send a message to the Block Bot including the name of the user and the hashtags "#level1" and "#spam" (instead of "#block", which would yield mere blocking).

This feature isn't mentioned on http://www.theblockbot.com. Particulary, the signup page fails to mention this extra functionality, suggesting that the bot would only block. None of the Block Bot users have authorized ool0n to spam report in their name. They are not even aware of this "extra feature".
This renders the feature a backdoor functionality and the Block Bot a Trojan. Just as common Trojans are used to create networks of remote-controlled computers which then are used for DOS-attacks etc., ool0n has used his Twitter Block Bot to create a network of Twitter accounts that he and his allies can remote control to suspend any Twitter account they deem unworthy of being present on Twitter.

Has anyone informed Twitter of this? I seriously doubt twitter would allow this stupid bot to survive if the knew about it. I don't have twitter but it seems rallying the troops to bombard twitter admins with information about this #spam sleaze would be in order.

[Parody Accountant]

Has anyone informed Twitter of this? I seriously doubt twitter would allow this stupid bot to survive if the knew about it. I don't have twitter but it seems rallying the troops to bombard twitter admins with information about this #spam sleaze would be in order.

I tried... found the report spam feature (and used it), but wished there was a more serious way to report manipulation like this.

[Cunning Punt]

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd24 ... 89243e.png

Oh fuck. I just spat cereal back in the bowl.
:lol:

[katamari Damassi]

uh oh

She hasn't blogged since April. I don't recall it being especially heated over there. I wonder what's up?