Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

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Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6181

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Awwwww......What didn't you like about Deadwood? I thought it was brilliant.
Heroes was promising but the second series was absolutely laughable and I gave up.

The Newsroom IS FUCKING SHITE. FUCKING UNWATCHABLE HIPSTER SHITE FUCK OFF FUCKING NEWSROOM WANK.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6182

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Ha! Dexter! Yeah, that got old fast.

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6183

Post by katamari Damassi »

I loved Deadwood. I can't forgive HBO for abruptly cancelling it just to replace it with the show John From Cincinnati.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6184

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Spence wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:Remember the pedophile episode of Bras Eye that tricked all the celebrities into saying the most outrageous stuff ever? Like "Children abused by pedophiles smell like hammers". Classic.
So many great lines

"I'm talking nonce-sense"

"This is a HOECS game"

My favourite: "and that's scientific fact - there's no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact"
Every sentence uttered or written by Chris Morris on-screen is memorable. The man is a comedy genius.
Four Lions. 'Nuff said.

bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6185

Post by bhoytony »

Fuck all that rubbish. I've got the complete Steptoe And Son.

debaser71
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6186

Post by debaser71 »

lemme know when you fucks are done talking about the idiot box

(hahah this is fun...yeah I'm doing an imitation of the anti-GZ/TM folk)

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6187

Post by Tony Parsehole »

katamari Damassi wrote:I loved Deadwood. I can't forgive HBO for abruptly cancelling it just to replace it with the show John From Cincinnati.
OOOooooooh shit yeah. I get you now. Hell yeah! Where was the fourth series you fucking cunts!? It was just getting started!

another lurker
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6188

Post by another lurker »

katamari Damassi wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:Tell you what I couldn't watch if I was paid.....True Blood and all that teen vampire shit. No. Fucking. Way.
True Blood used to be a guilty pleasure for me, but now it's unwatchable. Walking Dead took its spot, but I fear the same is happening to it.

Add me to the chorus praising Breaking Bad. It's incredible television.

Some recommendations though I'm not sure how available they are yet: Louie, Legit, Archer, The Venture Brothers, Treme, Veep, Girls, Arrested Development, The Newsroom is pretty good if you can get past Sorkin's annoying style, American Horror Story is enjoyable if you keep your expectations low, Carnivale was interesting its first season but it's not worth watching season 2, I can never forgive HBO for what they did to Deadwood, Heroes season one only(under no circumstances watch other seasons!), I enjoyed Dexter but I'm 2 seasons behind and it was starting to go downhill fast, Six Feet Under, Mad Men, and of course Game of Thrones.

I absolutely LOVED Carnivale. Dripping with atmosphere - and the mystery 'what the fuck is going on' kept me on the edge of my seat.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6189

Post by Tony Parsehole »

bhoytony wrote:Fuck all that rubbish. I've got the complete Steptoe And Son.
Lend me it!

another lurker
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6190

Post by another lurker »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
bhoytony wrote:Fuck all that rubbish. I've got the complete Steptoe And Son.
Lend me it!

Speaking of sitcoms, I would have to say that "Father Ted" is my favourite of all time. Such a great blend of surrealism and slapstick.

I also enjoyed 'One Foot In The Grave', about a grumpy retiree who keeps suffering bouts of bad luck - usually brought on by his own shitty attitude.

bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6191

Post by bhoytony »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
bhoytony wrote:Fuck all that rubbish. I've got the complete Steptoe And Son.
Lend me it!
It's on my hard drive. I may have found it on a torrent site, but that can't be right, it would be illegal.

rayshul
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6192

Post by rayshul »

I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6193

Post by Tony Parsehole »

debaser71 wrote:lemme know when you fucks are done talking about the idiot box

(hahah this is fun...yeah I'm doing an imitation of the anti-GZ/TM folk)
GZ? Wasn't he that Indian guy who shot a 12 year old black kid in the back of the head and stole his Skittles?

bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6194

Post by bhoytony »

rayshul wrote:I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.
Depends. If Oolon is on, then it could be quite a lot.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6195

Post by Tony Parsehole »

rayshul wrote:I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.
HaHa. AndI wonder how much the Slymepit is going to ignore it completely. FTB are beyond irrelevant.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6196

Post by Tony Parsehole »

bhoytony wrote:
rayshul wrote:I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.
Depends. If Oolon is on, then it could be quite a lot.
Oolon is the best advert the Pit could ask for. The Mary Whitehouse of the online world.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6197

Post by Tony Parsehole »

The Pit seems in a good mood tonight. Or is it just me?

John Greg
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6198

Post by John Greg »

Yes, cancelling Deadwood when it was really hitting its stride was really fucking stupid. High ratings, positive critical reviews, lots of awards ... hmm, what should we do? Cancel it!

As for Sopranos, I don't know. I watched it twice, then gave it away. I found it just too unrelentingly ugly/evil/cliched to allow for meaningful/useful suspension of disbelief. I mean, if things were actually like that in the so-called Mafia, they would never have survived into the 50s, let alone the present.

The Wire was good television too.

Most of the shows you guys are talking about I presume are UK? I've never heard of more than about a quarter of them.

I plan on picking up Breaking Bad when it is finished and hits DVDs in a complete form.

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6199

Post by Badger3k »

11

abear
July 19, 2013 at 3:10 pm (UTC -4)
Next thing you know Ed is going to go full Slymepit and post a picture of Bachmann with a foot long hotdog crammed in her mouth!
12
I didn't know PZ was a member here - http://phawrongula.wikia.com/wiki/The_M ... g_Incident

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6200

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

AndrewV69 wrote:Two mentions of Breaking Bad so far ... I think I may check it out. Any other recommendations?
The Wire. Best show ever.

John Greg
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6201

Post by John Greg »

That's abear being sarcastic/facetious. And I figure they've missed it, or are just doing a typical ignore it till it goes away kinda thing.

Linus
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6202

Post by Linus »

Dave wrote:
Linus wrote: What matters: All the evidence indicating that TM was on top of GZ punching him and bashing his head into the sidewalk and that GZ was yelling for help for a good 40 seconds before the gunshot.
That doesnt matter: If (and it is a very big if) GZ first attacked TM, it matters not one whit that the fight later went badly for GZ, self defense is not a legal option. As an aside, the way you write this seems to indicate this is very well supported, from my perspective, the evidence for this is fairly thin. (The 40 seconds and the bashing that is, its seems fairly well supported that TM was on top of GZ at the time of the shooting.)
I disagree that it doesn't matter. How could it not matter when self defense with deadly force requires that the person fears serious bodily injury or death? Could its importance be diminished or negated if there was evidence that GZ attacked first? Sure... but that is not the case AFAIK.

[warning - me speculating about laws I'm not very versed in]
If it WAS the case, I'm not entirely sure where the law stands, but I don't think it's as black & white as you are making it out to be. Are you suggesting, for example, that if I shove or punch someone who hasn't attacked me, that they can then beat me to death and I'm not allowed to defend myself (not I'm not implying TM was trying to GZ to death, this is just an example)? At the point where GZ yelling for help it seems unlikely that TM was "engaging in self defense" if he was still attacking GZ at that point. Even if GZ had been the initial aggressor. I think it would depend on the nature of the initial aggression, whether one continues to attack the initial aggressor after they have stopped fighting back and so on. But I agree that who the initial aggressor is is of some importance.
[/warning]

I disagree that the evidence is thin. The yelling for help was recorded on a 911 call. There's very strong evidence TM was on top and that GZ was on his back underneath. So regarding the punching and head bashing, we have

-Evidence of injury on the back and sides of GZ's head consistent with hard force against concrete.
-Evidence of injury to the face consistent with being punched
-John Good's testimony that it had looked like TM was on top and that it looked like a "ground and pound". He wasn't 100% sure that the person on top was striking the person on the bottom, but he saw arm movements downward the and thought that the person on the bottom was crying out for help. Of course eye witness testimony must be taken with a grain of salt, but John Good seemed credible and his account is consistent with the physical evidence.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6203

Post by Tony Parsehole »

John Greg wrote:Yes, cancelling Deadwood when it was really hitting its stride was really fucking stupid. High ratings, positive critical reviews, lots of awards ... hmm, what should we do? Cancel it!

As for Sopranos, I don't know. I watched it twice, then gave it away. I found it just too unrelentingly ugly/evil/cliched to allow for meaningful/useful suspension of disbelief. I mean, if things were actually like that in the so-called Mafia, they would never have survived into the 50s, let alone the present.

The Wire was good television too.

Most of the shows you guys are talking about I presume are UK? I've never heard of more than about a quarter of them.

I plan on picking up Breaking Bad when it is finished and hits DVDs in a complete form.
I'm pretty sure you won't be disappointed with Breaking Bad.
Deadwood's cancellation was very strange. It ended on the middle of the entire story.
The Wire is good but it's so hard to get used to the lingo that without watching it in complete silence for at least two episodes to get used to it I'm lost. I use the subtitle option half the time.

ERV
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6204

Post by ERV »

Remick wrote:
ERV wrote:
Zenspace wrote:Did Zimmerman kill the Pyt? :shock:
Yes. I fully understand that some people needed a free-speech zone to vent, but I am fucking sick of it.

Eating lemon curd and watching 'Luther'.
Are you up to date, or watching previous seasons?
Previous.

I savor TV shows I really like when they are limited (eg I just saw the last episode of 'Sherlock', I havent seen all the episodes of 'Firefly'). I do the same with books. But now that a new season of Luther started, I can watch more episodes.

:-D

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6205

Post by Tony Parsehole »


bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6206

Post by bhoytony »

Linus wrote:
Dave wrote:
Linus wrote: What matters: All the evidence indicating that TM was on top of GZ punching him and bashing his head into the sidewalk and that GZ was yelling for help for a good 40 seconds before the gunshot.
That doesnt matter: If (and it is a very big if) GZ first attacked TM, it matters not one whit that the fight later went badly for GZ, self defense is not a legal option. As an aside, the way you write this seems to indicate this is very well supported, from my perspective, the evidence for this is fairly thin. (The 40 seconds and the bashing that is, its seems fairly well supported that TM was on top of GZ at the time of the shooting.)
I disagree that it doesn't matter. How could it not matter when self defense with deadly force requires that the person fears serious bodily injury or death? Could its importance be diminished or negated if there was evidence that GZ attacked first? Sure... but that is not the case AFAIK.

[warning - me speculating about laws I'm not very versed in]
If it WAS the case, I'm not entirely sure where the law stands, but I don't think it's as black & white as you are making it out to be. Are you suggesting, for example, that if I shove or punch someone who hasn't attacked me, that they can then beat me to death and I'm not allowed to defend myself (not I'm not implying TM was trying to GZ to death, this is just an example)? At the point where GZ yelling for help it seems unlikely that TM was "engaging in self defense" if he was still attacking GZ at that point. Even if GZ had been the initial aggressor. I think it would depend on the nature of the initial aggression, whether one continues to attack the initial aggressor after they have stopped fighting back and so on. But I agree that who the initial aggressor is is of some importance.
[/warning]

I disagree that the evidence is thin. The yelling for help was recorded on a 911 call. There's very strong evidence TM was on top and that GZ was on his back underneath. So regarding the punching and head bashing, we have

-Evidence of injury on the back and sides of GZ's head consistent with hard force against concrete.
-Evidence of injury to the face consistent with being punched
-John Good's testimony that it had looked like TM was on top and that it looked like a "ground and pound". He wasn't 100% sure that the person on top was striking the person on the bottom, but he saw arm movements downward the and thought that the person on the bottom was crying out for help. Of course eye witness testimony must be taken with a grain of salt, but John Good seemed credible and his account is consistent with the physical evidence.
Lsuoma wrote:People, just fucking shut up about the TV/GZ shit or I'll shut the pit down for 48 hours.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6207

Post by Badger3k »

Not big into TV - most shows that a lot of people like I can't stand or just don't care about. Normally watch Top Gear (the original British, not the American hack job), So You Think You Can Dance, River Monsters, Tanked, Treehouse Masters, Cops....yeah, about it. I do second Father Ted, Coupling (again, the original British version), and Blackadder (any of them). Bean too. I have started to rewatch the Lexx, and a few others that I missed more than a few episodes and dropped.

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6208

Post by Badger3k »

John Greg wrote:That's abear being sarcastic/facetious. And I figure they've missed it, or are just doing a typical ignore it till it goes away kinda thing.
Yeah - I went to see if anybody commented on that but saw nothing. I'm not going to register to point it out though. It isn't worth it. Besides, I'm sure they'll see it posted here and will privately fume.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6209

Post by Tony Parsehole »

If Zimmerman hadn't owned that assault rifle 12 year old Trayvon would still be alive today.

bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6210

Post by bhoytony »

After posting about two dozen comments about TV shows I should mention that I don't actually own a telly.

Badger3k
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6211

Post by Badger3k »

Wait a minute - I must have missed it when I read the first time - abear was poking at them with the stick, not being clueless. Guess I'm the clueless one now. I'll just issue a big Homer Simpson D'oh!

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6212

Post by Zenspace »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
rayshul wrote:I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.
HaHa. AndI wonder how much the Slymepit is going to ignore it completely. FTB are beyond irrelevant.
That will be my choice. Life is way to short to waste on that groups self important blathering. It's the weekend, there are places to go, people to see and a life to be lived. Sunshine, warm breezes and beaches. Why anybody would waste a single second of a summer weekend on FftB is just beyond me.

I'm going outside to play!

Linus
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6213

Post by Linus »

welch wrote:
Linus wrote: None of this shit matters.

What matters: All the evidence indicating that TM was on top of GZ punching him and bashing his head into the sidewalk and that GZ was yelling for help for a good 40 seconds before the gunshot. The lack of evidence that GZ ever attacked or even confronted TM prior to the gunshot. And the complete lack of any coherent narrative by the prosecution.
Other than GZ, who actually watched this happen in good light where you could clearly see what was happening, AND timed it. Because if you're going to also tell me you're relying on human time sense being even in the same ROOM as accurate in that situation, then I'm going to question if you ever have left your house. In your life.
You sound like you're assuming that eye-witness testimony is the only possible form of evidence. I'm talking about recorded audio and physical evidence. And yes, John Good's testimony, but that's only one piece of the puzzle.
Linus wrote:Anti GZ people, I'm trying to help you here. The one good argument against GZ is the "he should have just lain there and taken the beating" argument. Not any of the bullshit about the dispatcher saying "we don't need you to do that", the "TM had a right to assault GZ in self defense because GZ followed him" argument, the "GZ's made inconsistent statements" argument. None of that crap. "He should have lain there and taken the beating" may sound bad at first, but think about it this way: would you rather get your ass kicked or kill a teenager? Do you really think GZ was likely to die?
Oh thank you for your help. Lawdy knows we couldn't manage a single thought without your benevolence.

Here's one...why would you carry a gun as part of a neighborhood watch, when the prime function of that is to literally...watch. You see something, you call the cops. You don't get out of your car and "chase down the perps". What would have happened to GZ had TM had the poor taste to be equally or better armed? Now we have a potential shootout. If you're going to play cop, (and that is what GZ was doing in this case), and you have a gun, then you have essentially made the decision to not just take a life, but to inject yourself into a situation where the likelihood of that happening approaches 100%. If GZ was doing "nothing wrong" than neither was TM. What, he's supposed to walk home from the store in the neighborhood his family lives in with a laminate around his neck so the watch knows he belongs there? Gimme a fucking break. What did GZ THINK the reaction would be? "Sorry, it was rude as to walk through your neighborhood without visible ID identifying which house i'm staying in"? If, as someone NOT a member of law enforcement, you take it upon yourself to get up in someone's business because you "don't like how they're walking" and they're giving you 'tude for following them, (HOW RUDE), then you cannot seriously expect me to believe that the potential for a fight is completely out of your head.

If GZ really believed that nothing would happen, why carry the gun at all?
I think my advice is applicable since you still seem to want to focus on stuff like "why was he carrying a gun?" I don't think shit like "why was he carrying a gun?" is important. That is my personal opinion. He was carrying it legally and I'm not a psychic. But I will address your question anyway (along with some of the other stuff):

-Supposedly he was carrying a gun, because his wife was cornered by a (stray? loose?) pitbull and after talking to a police officer about the situation, the officer advised carrying a gun. It's not clear that he was carrying a gun because he was involved in the neighborhood watch AFAIK.
-He did call the NEN.
-No evidence that he "chased down" anyone.
-I don't agree that calling the NEN and trying to keep an eye on someone until a cop gets there is "playing cop". It's possible he did something more than that prior to the confrontation, but there isn't evidence of it.
-No evidence that GZ "gave him tude"
-TM was doing something wrong at the point in which he assaulted GZ
-Yes it's possible that GZ approached TM aggressively, "gave him tude", initiated the fight or something, but there just is not any good evidence for these types of speculations.
-Since GZ was on his way to Target, it seems that carrying his gun with him is just something that he did normally, not that he was carrying it because he necessarily believed something would happen.
Linus wrote:I'm still leaning team GZ at this point, but I honestly think that is the best argument the other side has to offer and it's not a bad one, although there are some counter-arguments to it.
No, it's the best argument YOU have decided that those who disagree with you can offer. There is in fact a difference.
What do you think "I think that is the best argument the other side has to offer" means? :roll:
Linus wrote:I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it.
Why do you and the other members of "Team GZ" (christ, could that be any more stupid?) always assume that anyone not agreeing with your party line did not see the trial, and MUST be speaking from a position of complete ignorance?
I don't assume that anyone not agreeing with me did not see the trial and must be speaking from a position of complete ignorance. If you think that's what "I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it." means, then you have reading comprehension problems. I do assume that people who make it obvious that they have not seen the trial have not seen the trial, though.
Linus wrote:[disclaimer: I'm not saying it's necessarily a good legal argument, just on a general ethical level]
The idea that GZ should have just "taken it" is stupid. But, the key decision that created this from the start was GZ getting out of his car to initiate the confrontation. Had he stayed in his car, and simply done as the neighborhood watch is supposed to do, this would not have gone down the way it did. Everything, including TM's poor decisions, originates from GZ's initial action there. You can dress it up however you wish, but that's undeniable.
Would the situation have happened if GZ had stayed in his car? No. Would the situation have happened if GZ had decided not to go to target and stayed home? Again, no. I'm not sure what you're arguing here.
I don't assume everyone dressed differently than me is up to no good. It's amazing how well that works.
Agreed. JD's argument about hoodies being thug clothing was stupid.
welch wrote:
Linus wrote: Sorry, I should have phrased it better when I asked which part you disagreed with. Which part of what I actually said do you disagree with? Not which part of the fantasies you've made up in your head about what I believe do you disagree with.
You have dismissed every bit of skepticism as to the reliability of the eyewitness testimony as "not mattering". Even though studies and actual real world cases going back decades shows just how unreliable that can be. Yet for some reason, anyone applying an even SLIGHT bit of critical thought to GZ's reliability as a witness is dismissed. Why?
How fun, we get to add to the list of things you think I've said that I haven't actually said: GZ has perfect memory, GZ has perfect night vision, and now the unreliability of eyewitness testimony doesn't matter and GZ is a reliable witness.

I never said any of it.
Linus wrote:I don't know how a sane person reads my post and thinks that I'm making claims about GZ having good memory and good night vision.
You keep talking about "eyewitness testimony" as if it were infallible.
No I don't.
Linus wrote:No idea what you're talking with respect to me supposedly "strawmanning" the shit out of everyone" either.
The response of "you should try watching the trial" is a pretty good example.
Not a straw man. I said "I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it." Making a straw man argument is inventing a position for the other person and then arguing against it. Sort of like when you invented the position of me saying that GZ has awesome memory and night vision and then arguing against that. "I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it." is neither inventing an position for somebody, nor is it arguing against something.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6214

Post by Badger3k »

Tony Parsehole wrote:If Zimmerman hadn't owned that assault rifle 12 year old Trayvon would still be alive today.
I blame violence on TV and in video games, and since it is both men, we can see that Patriarchy hurts men too.

Oh, and Dungeons and Dragons too. Damn Satanists!

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6215

Post by Tony Parsehole »

What's the big deal about Top Gear? I have never understood the appeal at all. Mind you, I hate driving. Maybe that has something to do with it.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6216

Post by Linus »

Lsuoma wrote:People, just fucking shut up about the TV/GZ shit or I'll shut the pit down for 48 hours.
Can do.

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6217

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Firefly -- give it time
Dollhouse -- give it time
Life on Mars
Single Handed
Da Vinci's Inquest

I watched 2 seasons of Breaking Bad -- intense awesome

Everyone I trust tells me Boardwalk Empire is amazing

bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6218

Post by bhoytony »

Linus wrote:
welch wrote:
Linus wrote: None of this shit matters.

What matters: All the evidence indicating that TM was on top of GZ punching him and bashing his head into the sidewalk and that GZ was yelling for help for a good 40 seconds before the gunshot. The lack of evidence that GZ ever attacked or even confronted TM prior to the gunshot. And the complete lack of any coherent narrative by the prosecution.
Other than GZ, who actually watched this happen in good light where you could clearly see what was happening, AND timed it. Because if you're going to also tell me you're relying on human time sense being even in the same ROOM as accurate in that situation, then I'm going to question if you ever have left your house. In your life.
You sound like you're assuming that eye-witness testimony is the only possible form of evidence. I'm talking about recorded audio and physical evidence. And yes, John Good's testimony, but that's only one piece of the puzzle.
Linus wrote:Anti GZ people, I'm trying to help you here. The one good argument against GZ is the "he should have just lain there and taken the beating" argument. Not any of the bullshit about the dispatcher saying "we don't need you to do that", the "TM had a right to assault GZ in self defense because GZ followed him" argument, the "GZ's made inconsistent statements" argument. None of that crap. "He should have lain there and taken the beating" may sound bad at first, but think about it this way: would you rather get your ass kicked or kill a teenager? Do you really think GZ was likely to die?
Oh thank you for your help. Lawdy knows we couldn't manage a single thought without your benevolence.

Here's one...why would you carry a gun as part of a neighborhood watch, when the prime function of that is to literally...watch. You see something, you call the cops. You don't get out of your car and "chase down the perps". What would have happened to GZ had TM had the poor taste to be equally or better armed? Now we have a potential shootout. If you're going to play cop, (and that is what GZ was doing in this case), and you have a gun, then you have essentially made the decision to not just take a life, but to inject yourself into a situation where the likelihood of that happening approaches 100%. If GZ was doing "nothing wrong" than neither was TM. What, he's supposed to walk home from the store in the neighborhood his family lives in with a laminate around his neck so the watch knows he belongs there? Gimme a fucking break. What did GZ THINK the reaction would be? "Sorry, it was rude as to walk through your neighborhood without visible ID identifying which house i'm staying in"? If, as someone NOT a member of law enforcement, you take it upon yourself to get up in someone's business because you "don't like how they're walking" and they're giving you 'tude for following them, (HOW RUDE), then you cannot seriously expect me to believe that the potential for a fight is completely out of your head.

If GZ really believed that nothing would happen, why carry the gun at all?
I think my advice is applicable since you still seem to want to focus on stuff like "why was he carrying a gun?" I don't think shit like "why was he carrying a gun?" is important. That is my personal opinion. He was carrying it legally and I'm not a psychic. But I will address your question anyway (along with some of the other stuff):

-Supposedly he was carrying a gun, because his wife was cornered by a (stray? loose?) pitbull and after talking to a police officer about the situation, the officer advised carrying a gun. It's not clear that he was carrying a gun because he was involved in the neighborhood watch AFAIK.
-He did call the NEN.
-No evidence that he "chased down" anyone.
-I don't agree that calling the NEN and trying to keep an eye on someone until a cop gets there is "playing cop". It's possible he did something more than that prior to the confrontation, but there isn't evidence of it.
-No evidence that GZ "gave him tude"
-TM was doing something wrong at the point in which he assaulted GZ
-Yes it's possible that GZ approached TM aggressively, "gave him tude", initiated the fight or something, but there just is not any good evidence for these types of speculations.
-Since GZ was on his way to Target, it seems that carrying his gun with him is just something that he did normally, not that he was carrying it because he necessarily believed something would happen.
Linus wrote:I'm still leaning team GZ at this point, but I honestly think that is the best argument the other side has to offer and it's not a bad one, although there are some counter-arguments to it.
No, it's the best argument YOU have decided that those who disagree with you can offer. There is in fact a difference.
What do you think "I think that is the best argument the other side has to offer" means? :roll:
Linus wrote:I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it.
Why do you and the other members of "Team GZ" (christ, could that be any more stupid?) always assume that anyone not agreeing with your party line did not see the trial, and MUST be speaking from a position of complete ignorance?
I don't assume that anyone not agreeing with me did not see the trial and must be speaking from a position of complete ignorance. If you think that's what "I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it." means, then you have reading comprehension problems. I do assume that people who make it obvious that they have not seen the trial have not seen the trial, though.
Linus wrote:[disclaimer: I'm not saying it's necessarily a good legal argument, just on a general ethical level]
The idea that GZ should have just "taken it" is stupid. But, the key decision that created this from the start was GZ getting out of his car to initiate the confrontation. Had he stayed in his car, and simply done as the neighborhood watch is supposed to do, this would not have gone down the way it did. Everything, including TM's poor decisions, originates from GZ's initial action there. You can dress it up however you wish, but that's undeniable.
Would the situation have happened if GZ had stayed in his car? No. Would the situation have happened if GZ had decided not to go to target and stayed home? Again, no. I'm not sure what you're arguing here.
I don't assume everyone dressed differently than me is up to no good. It's amazing how well that works.
Agreed. JD's argument about hoodies being thug clothing was stupid.
welch wrote:
Linus wrote: Sorry, I should have phrased it better when I asked which part you disagreed with. Which part of what I actually said do you disagree with? Not which part of the fantasies you've made up in your head about what I believe do you disagree with.
You have dismissed every bit of skepticism as to the reliability of the eyewitness testimony as "not mattering". Even though studies and actual real world cases going back decades shows just how unreliable that can be. Yet for some reason, anyone applying an even SLIGHT bit of critical thought to GZ's reliability as a witness is dismissed. Why?
How fun, we get to add to the list of things you think I've said that I haven't actually said: GZ has perfect memory, GZ has perfect night vision, and now the unreliability of eyewitness testimony doesn't matter and GZ is a reliable witness.

I never said any of it.
Linus wrote:I don't know how a sane person reads my post and thinks that I'm making claims about GZ having good memory and good night vision.
You keep talking about "eyewitness testimony" as if it were infallible.
No I don't.
Linus wrote:No idea what you're talking with respect to me supposedly "strawmanning" the shit out of everyone" either.
The response of "you should try watching the trial" is a pretty good example.
Not a straw man. I said "I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it." Making a straw man argument is inventing a position for the other person and then arguing against it. Sort of like when you invented the position of me saying that GZ has awesome memory and night vision and then arguing against that. "I have watched most of the trial. I recommend it." is neither inventing an position for somebody, nor is it arguing against something.
Lsuoma wrote:People, just fucking shut up about the TV/GZ shit or I'll shut the pit down for 48 hours.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6219

Post by Linus »

Why are we not allowed to talk about TV?

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6220

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:
Everyone I trust tells me Boardwalk Empire is amazing
Amazing is a stretch. "Better than most shite" is more accurate. It's an in-between until The Borgias and Game Of Thrones comes back on.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6221

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Linus wrote:Why are we not allowed to talk about TV?
Because fuck you that's why.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6222

Post by Tony Parsehole »

That was a joke by the way

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6223

Post by bhoytony »

Tony Parsehole wrote:What's the big deal about Top Gear? I have never understood the appeal at all. Mind you, I hate driving. Maybe that has something to do with it.
[youtube]K7CnMQ4L9Pc[/youtube]

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6224

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Were people talking about the George Zimmerman case? I hadn't noticed. What did everybody think?

katamari Damassi
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6225

Post by katamari Damassi »

John Greg wrote:Yes, cancelling Deadwood when it was really hitting its stride was really fucking stupid. High ratings, positive critical reviews, lots of awards ... hmm, what should we do? Cancel it!

As for Sopranos, I don't know. I watched it twice, then gave it away. I found it just too unrelentingly ugly/evil/cliched to allow for meaningful/useful suspension of disbelief. I mean, if things were actually like that in the so-called Mafia, they would never have survived into the 50s, let alone the present.

The Wire was good television too.

Most of the shows you guys are talking about I presume are UK? I've never heard of more than about a quarter of them.

I plan on picking up Breaking Bad when it is finished and hits DVDs in a complete form.
HBO's treatment of Deadwood leaves me in constant fear for Game of Thrones.

I tell people not to watch season 4 of The Wire.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6226

Post by BarnOwl »

bhoytony wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:
bhoytony wrote:Re: The Thick Of It/In The Loop. Both by Armando Iannucci (along with all the other stuff). I've been watching his American political show, Veep and It's pretty good too. Very similar to Thick Of It.
Armando Iannucci's behind the scenes in a lot of very good stuff. He's connected to Stuart Lee* in a few things too I think. I'll definitely give Veep a go when I see it next.


*Need to add "This Morning With Richard Not Judy" and "Fist Of Fun" to the list of best telly ever.
Have you been listening to Richard Herring's Leicester Square podcast? Some great stuff in the latest series.
Linky to podcast, if available, please?

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6227

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

Badger3k wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:If Zimmerman hadn't owned that assault rifle 12 year old Trayvon would still be alive today.
I blame violence on TV and in video games, and since it is both men, we can see that Patriarchy hurts men too.

Oh, and Dungeons and Dragons too. Damn Satanists!
Badger, you need to check your Neutral Good privilege!

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6228

Post by Tony Parsehole »

bhoytony wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:What's the big deal about Top Gear? I have never understood the appeal at all. Mind you, I hate driving. Maybe that has something to do with it.
[youtube]K7CnMQ4L9Pc[/youtube]
On the life of my goldfish I was at that gig in Darlington about 3/4 years ago. Front row seat and me and my lass I had jaw-ache from laughing the next day. Met him in the bar afterwards with all the other fanboys. Top bloke.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6229

Post by katamari Damassi »

Matt Cavanaugh wrote:Firefly -- give it time
Dollhouse -- give it time
Life on Mars
Single Handed
Da Vinci's Inquest

I watched 2 seasons of Breaking Bad -- intense awesome

Everyone I trust tells me Boardwalk Empire is amazing
Loved Firefly but it's not complete and while Serenity had its moments, it really wasn't a great send off.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6230

Post by Tony Parsehole »

BarnOwl wrote:
Have you been listening to Richard Herring's Leicester Square podcast? Some great stuff in the latest series.
Linky to podcast, if available, please?[/quote]
I have it on my phone. Just downloand Tune-In Radio app for free and get them from there.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6231

Post by Zenspace »

Foe Abbie, who has probably seen it already:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... lanet.html

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6232

Post by Tony Parsehole »

katamari Damassi wrote:
I tell people not to watch season 4 of The Wire.
The Wire has 5 series doesn't it?

G.O.T. biggest obstacle is if the series catches up and passes the books. Then we're fucked coz the young cast are going to be past puberty and won't be able to play their original parts.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6233

Post by Jan Steen »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
rayshul wrote:I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.
HaHa. AndI wonder how much the Slymepit is going to ignore it completely. FTB are beyond irrelevant.
Why would anyone bother with FTBCon when there are more rewarding things to do, such as:

1. Cleaning a greasy oven.
2. Establishing the relative frequencies of the letters in an old newspaper.
3. Memorising a random page of a random telephone directory.
4. Extracting your own teeth.
5. ...

Matt Cavanaugh
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6234

Post by Matt Cavanaugh »

(Merging two threads,) I think PZ And Becca should star in a remake of The Avengers

bhoytony
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6235

Post by bhoytony »

BarnOwl wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Have you been listening to Richard Herring's Leicester Square podcast? Some great stuff in the latest series.
Linky to podcast, if available, please?
http://www.comedy.co.uk/podcasts/richar ... t_podcast/

It was on this podcast a few weeks ago that Stephen Fry admitted to attempting suicide.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6236

Post by Tony Parsehole »

Jan Steen wrote:
Tony Parsehole wrote:
rayshul wrote:I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.
HaHa. AndI wonder how much the Slymepit is going to ignore it completely. FTB are beyond irrelevant.
Why would anyone bother with FTBCon when there are more rewarding things to do, such as:

1. Cleaning a greasy oven.
2. Establishing the relative frequencies of the letters in an old newspaper.
3. Memorising a random page of a random telephone directory.
4. Extracting your own teeth.
5. ...
I think I'm past caring about FTB/Atheism+ anymore. I only come here for the craic and to derail everything.
If they do something awesomely lulzy I'll comment but now I view them like the Westboro baptist church. A bunch of irrelevant, attention seeking cocks who are their own worst enemy when it come to PR.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6237

Post by rayshul »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
rayshul wrote:I wonder how much time this little online conference is going to spend talking about the Slymepit.
HaHa. AndI wonder how much the Slymepit is going to ignore it completely. FTB are beyond irrelevant.
I'm loving the pushback against PC things in the general media now. Maybe they have twigged there's a fight here that they aren't going to win...? Or would that be too much to hope for.

Tony Parsehole
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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6238

Post by Tony Parsehole »

bhoytony wrote:
BarnOwl wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
Have you been listening to Richard Herring's Leicester Square podcast? Some great stuff in the latest series.
Linky to podcast, if available, please?
http://www.comedy.co.uk/podcasts/richar ... t_podcast/

It was on this podcast a few weeks ago that Stephen Fry admitted to attempting suicide.
Too much Twitter will do that.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6239

Post by bhoytony »

Tony Parsehole wrote:
bhoytony wrote:
http://www.comedy.co.uk/podcasts/richar ... t_podcast/

It was on this podcast a few weeks ago that Stephen Fry admitted to attempting suicide.
Too much Twitter will do that.
I should be safe then.

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Re: Shall Mr Vacula Make a Misstep in the Capital of Eire?

#6240

Post by Pitchguest »

cunt wrote:Just agreeing with John D. and his "nitwit" post. There's maybe 10 people left who are smart/interesting/funny.

They probably know who I think they are.
Remember how you told us you'd IP-block this site? Yeah. How that's working out for you?

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