Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Wonderist]

As I previously posted, I have entered a comment on Zvan's blog, and one (yet to pass moderation) on Nugent's blog, responding to the initial statments from both Jack and Zvan. However, I have not yet passed moderation on Nugent's blog ... time? locale? ... I don't know.

Anyway, LeftSidePositive (http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222421), who is without doubt one of the most virulent, angry, and offensive of the FfTB sociopathic ideologues, has, of course, iviscerated me, to the core, while ignoring almost all of my actual points.

Typical, I guess.

I have had, er, ah, arguments and confrontations with LeftSideDeficient before, and it ... no sorry, sh/i/t is not an individual who is overly gifted with reading comprehension.

Last note, I think that Jack's statement is really poorly written, and I truly wish he/she had asked someone with professional writing experience to proof it. His statement is overflowing with sentence structure errors, grammatical errors, logic errors, and so on. And such flaws really weaken the argument. Pah. Very, very disappointing.

Assuming you're serious about Jack's statement, feedback would be greatly appreciated. I was also involved in hammering out some of the grammar/wording/etc. We had our reasons for phrasing things in particular ways, I assure you, some of them intentionally obfuscated in order to keep things relatively short (an important consideration which takes a *lot* of work to accomplish, and could always be improved; eventually you have to compromise and go with 'good enough' rather than 'perfect'), as well as to stimulate further discussion.

But I am always open to critique, positive or negative, especially on this project. If you have specific passages or quotes that really bugged you, please comment with your thoughts. I'd be very interested, and would try to figure out better ways to say things, for sure. I believe Jack and Renee would probably concur (NB: Tim Skellett has recently withdrawn from the formal process, and will be doing his own thing I imagine; he's expressed that he does not feel he can fully support the position that was posted; I'll leave it to him to say more from his POV; I get the feeling it's not a personal thing, but an issue of how the 'structured dialogue' is structured into two 'sides', and he's not fully comfortable being put in that position/grouping).

[debaser71]

I found this, where she excuses 'durable' pseudonyms (meaning herself?), from http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... k-puppets/

As DrugMonkey has pointed out in prior discussions of online identity, the situation is different when dealing with a durable pseudonym. Over time, that pseudonym accretes history the same way any other name would online. It develops a reputation that follows it around. This reputation doesn’t generally attach itself to the person behind the pseudonym, but there are good, bad and indifferent reasons why that might be desirable. The pseudonymous themselves are generally approximately as mixed a bag of humanity as the rest of us, and we deal with them individually based on the reputation they built by their actions.

Hmmm I actually agree with her on durable "nyms". Although I call them "tags" but whatever. I was wondering what's the oldest post of mine I could find on the internet and this is what I found.

http://lvlworld.com/comments/id:34

comment 22, may 16, 2000

(so very fascinating! I know... /eyeroll) Of course, my tag is older than that, I just can't find any (not that I tried hard).

But the Pharygnula non-horde still tried to suggest that I was a drive by troll or something, that I could be dismissed because of my "nym"...that's right before they switched it up to "childmolester71". Hey, A-rat-in-a-cage, go fork a repo or something!

[John Brown]

all i can easily find is blu talking about it

http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... minati.htm

considering all zvan's comments over time, would be REALLY interested in the truth of it

I wish I had a link. I just remember at the time wondering how she came up with 'Zvan', like maybe she wanted something that would often be last alphabetically or something.

I found this, where she excuses 'durable' pseudonyms (meaning herself?), from http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... k-puppets/

As DrugMonkey has pointed out in prior discussions of online identity, the situation is different when dealing with a durable pseudonym. Over time, that pseudonym accretes history the same way any other name would online. It develops a reputation that follows it around. This reputation doesn’t generally attach itself to the person behind the pseudonym, but there are good, bad and indifferent reasons why that might be desirable. The pseudonymous themselves are generally approximately as mixed a bag of humanity as the rest of us, and we deal with them individually based on the reputation they built by their actions.

[/quote]

Well, unless her husband is also using a pseudonym, I'll remain skeptical about the issue...

http://photography.zvan.net/

[Wonderist]

@ Jack:
I didn't see the cast for the FfTB "side" of the discussion posted anywhere, but a commenter from there mentioned "all named people" on their side.
Have they released the participants nyms/names yet?

Not to my knowledge. It would be interesting to know but if people wish to stay discreet I'm OK with that.

Am I alone in considering all of this dreadfully strained & obviously faux 'pussy-footing-around' with polite etiquette & excruciatingly restricted & embarrassingly laboured ceremonial language somewhat hard to stomach?
The Slimepit was (in part) evolved to avoid such indirect speech against circumlocuitous "Jane Austen" style bullshit.
"Oh, Mr. Darcy! How uncharitable, kind sir."
versus
"You are deliberately lying, you deceptive cunt."
I go for the latter, every time.
(But perhaps that is merely a reflection of my extreme age, experience, and lack of tolerance for hypocrisy?)

Perhaps 'tis for the best that I did not volunteer for Nugent's Fools Errand.
It is not my style at all.
"Have at it" is my motto.

Being polite did not work with cultish theists, (after a 4,500+ year trial), and I doubt that it will work with the FTB cultists whose behaviour I oppose.

I know, eh? :roll: It's so booorrring. So tedious. It kind of sucks the wind right out of the debate. When can we get the excitement and drama back?! This shit is seriously a drama killer!!!!1

... oh, wait. :think:

[Bhurzum]

Just dumping this here...

[youtube]0EDoEzOymkk[/youtube]

[Wonderist]

...Arguments win or fail on their merits.

Perhaps I am not being blunt enough here.
Nugent's garden party, serving accommodationist scones, after a wait of several months, and the sweet tea of "common goals", can be dispensed with in seconds: It is transparently clear as to what are our common agreements.
This has been hashed and re-hashed for years.

Hmm, I think you think we think this is about convincing Zvan or anyone on 'their side' of anything. We don't. At least, I don't. I'm not writing *for* Zvan (only), though I might write *to* Zvan. I'm writing for the hundreds of other people (perhaps thousands with this Nugent thing, who knows?) who might possibly read my stuff ever, now or in the future. Those are the people I'm focused on reaching. Zvan may eventually get our message, she might not. That's up to her, and I have no control over that. I only have control over what I say, and to the extent that it will ever influence any reasonable person to read it, I have a tiny bit of control over that (adjusting probabilities up or down, depending on what I say and how I say it). It's not accommodationism, it's mere fact. Some ways of expressing the same idea work better than others, depending on the context and the audience. Pure pragmatism.

What is at issue, and this is VITAL: is where 'we' disagree! (And why)

For fux-sake, re-iterating these already common principles gets no-one anywhere save, perhaps, for a warm wave of smugness in the mind of Nugent.
Who gives a tinker's cuss about rabbiting on and on in genteel language about the common ground?
WTF is the point?
What's to resolve?

Hmmm, I think you think that large numbers of self-identified skeptics don't need the occasional reminder of core skeptical and ethical principles. The whole EG and A+ debacle should have woken you up from that delusion long ago. Isn't is *transparently obvious* to you that a lot of usually-reasonable people have got sucked into a thoroughly *unreasonable* dogma? Don't you think it would be a good thing if we tried to highlight that problem and vaccinate those 'skeptics' out there who are still reachable, but prone to buying into it? I do.

Get on with where the 2 "sides" disagree:
1) Hypocrisy
2) Hypocrisy
3) Hypocrisy

Did you miss the several weeks we spent doing that at Nugent's blog threads? You're about 3 or 4 weeks behind the strategy. We've got the hypocrisy well and truly documented. We've collected the evidence. Now we need to present the case to the jury of the wider, mainstream, secular/rationalist/atheist/skeptical communit(ies). That requires laying some groundwork on principles. That's why Nugent's point 1 is about laying this groundwork of common agreement, as a baseline from which to highlight the areas of disagreement. I suppose you missed that memo: http://atheistskepticdialogue.com/agenda/

[Tony Parsehole]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Yup. Welcome to my experience two years ago, EBW. Forgive me for having zero sympathy for you.

Im also not about to give EBW a pass-- I only 'encountered' her through friends Facebook feeds. I didnt say a word to/at/about her, however I immediately blocked her because I saw *her* being aggressive/confrontational/combative (not Pharyngula commentors, nor was she just going along with Pharyngula commentors). *She* was being batshit, and loving it.

Not interested in taking her off block.

:clap:

I don't have much sympathy for EllenBeth 'Don't be fooled by his game when he rapes your daughter' Wachs either. The biter got bit, that's all, and she's butthurt over getting what she's dished out to others. Too bad.

Yup. My sympathy for EBW is as close to zero as it's possible to get.
It's all well and good that she's finally realised what a bunch of nasty, back-stabbing cunts her supposed allies are but she has known about their behaviour for ages, went along with it and indulged in the lying and misrepresentation of dissenters herself numerous times and it didn't bother her one fucking jot until she's the one on the receiving end.

[Wonderist]

...We were bending over backwards to avoid words...

Says it all, really.

Context, cunt.

[Tony Parsehole]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

[debaser71]

And they constantly femsplain.

[Wonderist]

Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!

I'm guessing googlability. Either so she can track mentions, or so, like in Soviet Russia: Mention tracks you!

[Jan Steen]

That’s because they want one true “movement” that they can use as a personal badge. Something that’s safely a “He Man Women Hater’s Club” and thus not tainted by non-white, non-normative, and/or female participants. Where, in fact, said minority members know better than to even try to belong if they aren’t spending the entire time praising the “real movement” for what intellectual dexterity it takes to not believe in things that those group members were not personally raised in.

Because, by having been at one time a white male dominated group, they invested in it as a source of alternative masculinity in the toxic masculinity sense. What I mean is that by the rules of toxic masculinity, this group was feeling pressure and reduction and so invested in atheism a sort of alternative way of separating themselves from femininity and arguing that belonging to this male-dominated group made them way smarter than everyone and totally manly because everyone knows that only men are smart and so on.

In other words, they’re having a tantrum because they were using atheism to try and go to toxic masculinity “hey, we might not be jocks, but we’re still willing to kick the women and hang out in homosocial-only spaces! So we still count as manly enough to be considered ‘men’, right?” and now there are all these chicks running around wanting to talk about girly shit and making them feel dumb and very similar to the people they were lording over because on certain issues they are almost exactly the same.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-594483

This. This. A thousand times - what?

Cerberus must own a brain so completely filled with radfem clichés that there is no room left for connections to reality. :D

[Submariner]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

If you notice my replay to Zvan at Nugent's, I deliberately refused to use her included phrase "cis-gendered". In future posts there, I will avoid any of the newspeak words from their side.

[Tony Parsehole]

Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).

*clicks link*
*sees graph*
*picks up nearby trumpet*
*plays "wa was waaaaaaaa......*

[Submariner]

*reply

danmed edit button.

[Wonderist]

Hey I'm British so I can be deeply insulting without someone even realising it :)

It's 'Team' as in Zvan and a mod for their side. No others have been announced. I originally assume 5 from there but if I were to guess that hasn't happened. That does not mean people are not assisting her or helping in some way. That is the same for us. I see no issue with that and it's a good sign if that is happening. It is silly for people to say we want as many as possible then demand arbitrary limits on that. It's being bloody minded for the sake of it. I don't care if they have an army of thousands helping out. Arguments win or fail on their merits.

Zvan makes some good points and I see that as a good thing. I agree with most of her statement and it is in line with ours (although you wouldn't think that from some comments over there) She's grasped this is about common ground and resisted the urge we all have to go on the attack from the start. She gets my respect for that.

I'm only seeing a couple of comments on either Strand over at the dedicated site for this discussion. Am I doing something RONG?

No, nothing rong. Just slower than typical moderation due to the fact that it is collaborative moderation, not unilateral. And 8 time zones.

Also, arguments should win or fail on their merits, but we've seen arbitrary dismissal of arguments by FtBers many times. FLOOSH!

Hence the need for a 'structured dialogue' to prevent that kind of tactic. Hence the need for a step 1, where we reach agreement that such tactics are not valid, before the dialogue proper begins.

[Jan Steen]

Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).

But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

[Wonderist]

Also, the chartjunk on Zvan's post reminds me of the clipart that is used in Powerpoints by administrative touchy-feely types in academia. Might be common practice in the business world, but makes acolytes of Edward Tufte (like myself) cringe.

I sure wouldn't want one of these puzzle-piece thingies as a support net when things go wrong. Much prefer a more solid foundation to rest upon:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... uxmart.jpg

[Tony Parsehole]

*reply

danmed edit button.

I knew, I knew.

[CommanderTuvok]

We all know there are plenty of (fringe) feminists who will no doubt be skeptical of PZ and JT's claims of false accusations. Ironically, they are the (fringe) feminists who PZ and company looked up to for "advice" about all things feminism.

However, PZ can have no complaints about being falsely accused - after all, men are POTENTIAL RAPISTS.

[Submariner]

*reply

danmed edit button.

I knew, I knew.

Read quoted post CAREFULLY.

[codelette]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

[Tony Parsehole]

But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

I honestly think he'd kill himself. Hopefully in an ironic fashion like cutting his throat with a broken record.

[JackSkeptic]

Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).

But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

He can *Floosh** himself.

[justinvacula]

Freethought Blogs to go offline, Rebecca Watson admits hoax

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... mits-hoax/

[Tony Parsehole]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".

[Angry_Drunk]

I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.

[Wonderist]

Most mediators seem to act in stages, Michael. The number of stages do vary, but here is a good document that shows them clearly.

Very helpful comment, Corylus, thanks. Didn't want to quote your whole comment, but it's here in case anyone wants to reference it: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=266&start=13425#p80963

Conversely, Jack's statement is deeply practical and based on the assumption that what works is generally helpful for all parties. There is a view that egalitarian systems are actually good for all, and that common goals can be uncovered via evidence based investigation, as opposed to the short-term balancing of individual concerns. There is also a laudable willingness to put some work in displayed throughout. There may be an underestimation of the, generally irrational, nature of the populace in there however.

Interesting first couple of assumptions you mention. I suppose that's true, I pretty much assume that as well: Pragmatism, equality, reason/science.

For myself, I definitely don't underestimate general irrationality. I assume it, and even assume it of myself. It's human nature. Limited cognition and all that; brain evolution, inherent human biases, etc. But, in our statement, I did suggest certain changes to make it more in line with the principle of charity and assuming 'good faith', which I think is also an important and *useful* (pragmatism) tool for sustaining mutually beneficial dialogue.

So here we have (roughly) an INTJ talking to (roughly) an ENFP

Them letters are nearly all different: agreement cannot be assumed.

Michael N, if you are reading, you may send me a consulting fee in the post.

I'm definitely INTP, primarily. Sometimes a tad INTJ, but not sustained. Tested myself several different times with different tests, and each time, same result, INTP.

[codelette]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".

Neurodiverse.

[Wonderist]

Am I alone in considering all of this dreadfully strained & obviously faux 'pussy-footing-around' with polite etiquette & excruciatingly restricted & embarrassingly laboured ceremonial language somewhat hard to stomach?

Nope.

Yeah, this whole thing is turning out to be as exciting as a slap-fight between snails with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Exxxcellent...
http://i.imgur.com/NareU.jpg

[justinvacula]

Richard Carrier's Atheism Plus speech has been uploaded to Youtube. I wonder, was the conference policy violated with this one? Lol. Anyway...I am listening now. This is such a great gift.

[youtube]au2i3xxgv7U[/youtube]

[Tony Parsehole]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".

Neurodiverse.

Rape-apologist (sounds like somebody who says "sorry" after jumping out of a bush and sticking his dick in you).

[ReneeHendricks]

Reading through the stuff regarding Nugent's "Dialogue". It's hard to describe. Speaking for myself, I don't plan on relenting when it comes to pointing out stupidity, ignorance, blatant misandry, and overt hypocrisy. However, in the past few weeks I've found some of the crap lobbed back and forth just unacceptable. Again, this is speaking purely for myself. I would like to establish some sort of middle ground. I have no desire to be painted as a bad person or a misogynist simply because I don't believe feminism should be force fed into our minds and mannerism. Nor do I think that the AtheismPlus agenda has anything to do with a non-existing belief in god or gods. They both have shit-all to do with atheism.

So, while I am intelligent enough to realize there will be no great "group hug" when this is all said and done, I'm also cognizant of the fact that this sort of thing will, at a minimum, publicly show that at our core we are striving for many of the same goals. I was a feminist way before I was an atheist. I was an LGBTQ supporter way before I was an atheist. These ideologies are separate.

[Wonderist]

Hank Fox is decamping for Patheos:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/bluecollara ... s-oh-wait/

Assuming it's not an April Fool's double-gotcha:
[youtube]JSUIQgEVDM4[/youtube]

[codelette]

We all know there are plenty of (fringe) feminists who will no doubt be skeptical of PZ and JT's claims of false accusations. Ironically, they are the (fringe) feminists who PZ and company looked up to for "advice" about all things feminism.

However, PZ can have no complaints about being falsely accused - after all, men are POTENTIAL RAPISTS.

That reminded me of palsy pals: La Marcotte and Hugo Schweyzer. La Marcotte declares the Duke students racist rapists (even after accusation proven false); yet she sides with Hugo and John Edwards. One confessed trying to kill his gf. The other a womanizer. Funniest thing was when Hugo acted as La Marcotte's knight in shinning armor when she was accused of racism by brown feminists.

[Tony Parsehole]

I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.

BUT WHY DON'T YOU AGREE THAT WOMEN ARE PEOPLE?

[Apples]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

[ReneeHendricks]

That all being said, I think this comment on Zvan's blog is rather funny:

I see Renee Hendricks is one of the authors of that piece…she of the great ‘there are some jobs that women just can’t do, and I know because I’m doing one of them’ argument*, and the petty and vicious ‘how dare Greta use her own money to buy shoes!’ debacle**. Doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence that this is going to be productive.

But we’re not going to hear any new arguments from them regardless of who’s involved, are we? It’s just going to be the same old shit about how calling out sexism is worse than sexism itself, with added bits of their individual petty grudges.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222565

* Once again, completely misconstrued
** Her own money? Really? Just after e-begging for her cancer scare?

[Angry_Drunk]

I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.

BUT WHY DON'T YOU AGREE THAT WOMEN ARE PEOPLE?

I barely consider people "people"

Fuck the whole lot of ya'.

[Steersman]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

[Tony Parsehole]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

*sigh*

[JackSkeptic]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

Sure. I'll let Skeptickle know.

[codelette]

Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...

[ERV]

Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...

Last week was bemoaning the fact 'things were tight' and she and her Cabbage Patch Doll husband couldnt afford to eat out every meal anymore. And they 'dont cook', so BAAAAAAAAAW.

But literally like two tweets earlier she was suggesting her friends get laser hair removal treatments because it worked GREAT for her (costs thousands of dollars).

She is so gross.

[JackSkeptic]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

With the usual bit of racism thrown in for good measure:)

These people are the most racist I have ever come across and I live in an area with 50% non-whites. What a surprise that their bigoted dogma allows that. It's a complete scam.

[Steersman]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up ****.com (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

Sure. I'll let Skeptickle know.

Thanks.

In passing though, I probably shouldn’t have posted that e-mail address – my bad. If Lsuoma wants to edit that out then I’m ok with that, and it might be a good idea to do so.

[codelette]

Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...

Last week was bemoaning the fact 'things were tight' and she and her Cabbage Patch Doll husband couldnt afford to eat out every meal anymore. And they 'dont cook', so BAAAAAAAAAW.

But literally like two tweets earlier she was suggesting her friends get laser hair removal treatments because it worked GREAT for her (costs thousands of dollars).

She is so gross.

Lol That laser looks like right out of a MAD TV Oprah skit:
"If you want to reduce your spending; cut to half the staff of your second mansion", "for tax breaks: BUY A MOUNTAIN"

[Dick Strawkins]

(NB: Tim Skellett has recently withdrawn from the formal process, and will be doing his own thing I imagine; he's expressed that he does not feel he can fully support the position that was posted; I'll leave it to him to say more from his POV; I get the feeling it's not a personal thing, but an issue of how the 'structured dialogue' is structured into two 'sides', and he's not fully comfortable being put in that position/grouping).

What exactly is the next step in the process?
Are you planning to keep doing the remaining 4 sections exactly like the first stage, the only difference being the absence of Tim Skellett?

[codelette]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

With the usual bit of racism thrown in for good measure:)

These people are the most racist I have ever come across and I live in an area with 50% non-whites. What a surprise that their bigoted dogma allows that. It's a complete scam.

I have noticed that before. Most of them move to white enclaves (cough, MN) and then complain about lack of brown peeps.

[16bitheretic]

Reading through the stuff regarding Nugent's "Dialogue". It's hard to describe. Speaking for myself, I don't plan on relenting when it comes to pointing out stupidity, ignorance, blatant misandry, and overt hypocrisy. However, in the past few weeks I've found some of the crap lobbed back and forth just unacceptable. Again, this is speaking purely for myself. I would like to establish some sort of middle ground. I have no desire to be painted as a bad person or a misogynist simply because I don't believe feminism should be force fed into our minds and mannerism. Nor do I think that the AtheismPlus agenda has anything to do with a non-existing belief in god or gods. They both have shit-all to do with atheism.

So, while I am intelligent enough to realize there will be no great "group hug" when this is all said and done, I'm also cognizant of the fact that this sort of thing will, at a minimum, publicly show that at our core we are striving for many of the same goals. I was a feminist way before I was an atheist. I was an LGBTQ supporter way before I was an atheist. These ideologies are separate.

Honestly, given that people like PZ and Ophelia have already shit on the very idea of discussion and seeing the Almost Diamonds comments by people like LeftSidePositive, I have no actual hope of any "coming together" on a large scale. I think my point in joining the discussions is just to present for the audience who will be reading what one single person thinks about the subjects and the rhetoric that's been lobbed back and forth and to try and dispel some of the myths and strawmen arguments lobbed at people who have been critical of certain bloggers and groups or the attempt to tie certain political dogmas to scientific inquiry or to non-belief in divine entities. Especially in the last couple weeks with this attempt I've seen from some to build a narrative that anyone who has criticized FTB or A+ is some fanatical far-right-wing misogynist or that anyone who criticizes certain elements of modern 3rd wave/radical feminist hypotheses is somehow anti-women's rights and equality.

[Pitchguest]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

With the usual bit of racism thrown in for good measure:)

These people are the most racist I have ever come across and I live in an area with 50% non-whites. What a surprise that their bigoted dogma allows that. It's a complete scam.

I have noticed that before. Most of them move to white enclaves (cough, MN) and then complain about lack of brown peeps.

[youtube]MZcWi6wEbG0[/youtube]

[Tigzy]

So Melody and her Cabbage Patch Doll ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ) don't cook? WTF??

And this is someone who, presumably, has the gall to lecture others on 'privilege'.

I guess they must eat out at restaurants, get take-out or, if they're feeling really adventurous, pop a ready-meal in the microwave. Might explain Mel's size - as well as the illnesses she frequently complains about.

Seriously, if Melody's looking to get healthier, regularly cooking for herself is one of the best things she can do. Starting with the base ingredients from scratch will cut out a lot of the hidden fats and sugar she's liable to get from take-out, processed meals and certain restaurant fare (especially if it's a chain restaurant). If she can get her meats and vegetables as fresh as possible, then all the better.

Damn, she is one strange lady.

[Pepsi]

It's not different. Surely people here have built up a rep in their eyes. The point of goading people into giving names is to take personal information that has nothing to do with knowing what we think or how we've been behaving, right? If they ride this train Zvan is providing, then it's no different from the pit's asking guests to put their usual pseudonym in. NOT going to work, Zvan. Nice try. They don't care about usernames you've been using, clearly, they want your personal life.

[Pitchguest]

I have a question for those that say "cunt" is sexist because it uses the female genitalia as a curse word and thus implies it's a bad thing: what about "dick"? "Prick"? "Cock"? Are these not slang for the penis used as curse words and thus make the implication it's a bad thing as well? What about "fuck" or "fucking"? "Fuck" is a slur, the worst slur, you can't say "fuck" on television. Isn't "fucking" also a good thing? Aren't "cunts" and "dicks"?

Is it sexist when one of the number one rules on internet etiquette is called "Don't be a dick"? Is it sexist when it's acceptable to call someone a "dick" but not a "pussy" or a "cunt" in the context that either of these "slurs" imply the genitalia it describes is a Bad Thing? And on the bigger question, is it right if you defend its use by saying "dick" wasn't used to oppress an entire gender? (Historically "cunt" wasn't [nor is it] used to oppress an entire gender. Look it up.)

[Apples]

LeftSidePositive offering some measured criticism of Nugent and the 'Pit over at A+:

I don't think that Michael's issue is an overabundance of charity, I think it is willful ignorance on his part. He has all the available evidence of how they have been treating us, he knows that they have been viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement, and he is falling for an abuser being charming to everyone except zir victim.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 376#p76716

Amazing how quickly the creepy clown narrative ramps up: "Viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement."

One might be inclined to ask for links or citations that exemplify this, as Wonderist did over at Svan's today. Of course, you're liable to get Rorschach's reply:

"If you want links or quotes, there’s this thing called the internet. Feel free to use it."

Funny how that works.

[Lsuoma]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

Network problem, likely way beyond your control unless you're running your own network and mail servers at home, in which case this would likely not be Greek to you.

[clownshoe]

PZ is one of those bullies.

Considering the power imbalance, indeed.

[Apples]

I have a question for those that say "cunt" is sexist because it uses the female genitalia as a curse word and thus implies it's a bad thing: what about "dick"? "Prick"? "Cock"? Are these not slang for the penis used as curse words and thus make the implication it's a bad thing as well? What about "fuck" or "fucking"? "Fuck" is a slur, the worst slur, you can't say "fuck" on television. Isn't "fucking" also a good thing? Aren't "cunts" and "dicks"?

Is it sexist when one of the number one rules on internet etiquette is called "Don't be a dick"? Is it sexist when it's acceptable to call someone a "dick" but not a "pussy" or a "cunt" in the context that either of these "slurs" imply the genitalia it describes is a Bad Thing? And on the bigger question, is it right if you defend its use by saying "dick" wasn't used to oppress an entire gender? (Historically "cunt" wasn't [nor is it] used to oppress an entire gender. Look it up.)

Nahhh, don't bother looking it up. Just listen to Melody and LeftSidePositive. All women are marginalized because of Patriarchy, in America people have made women feel bad by calling them cunts, therefore it is an "oppressive epithet." Since men are privileged, "dick" is not oppressive. Simples.

[JackSkeptic]

LeftSidePositive offering some measured criticism of Nugent and the 'Pit over at A+:

I don't think that Michael's issue is an overabundance of charity, I think it is willful ignorance on his part. He has all the available evidence of how they have been treating us, he knows that they have been viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement, and he is falling for an abuser being charming to everyone except zir victim.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 376#p76716

Amazing how quickly the creepy clown narrative ramps up: "Viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement."

One might be inclined to ask for links or citations that exemplify this, as Wonderist did over at Svan's today. Of course, you're liable to get Rorschach's reply:

"If you want links or quotes, there’s this thing called the internet. Feel free to use it."

Funny how that works.

It's so funny how they project their biases onto it without realising. They post like those conspiracy theory people where everything is not what it says and it's smothered in glaring multi coloured fonts.

Anyway it's not for people like that. Waste of time. As said earlier it's about informing people who have a genuine interest in considering what the truth is.

[Metalogic42]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ools-here/

Jeez, what a depressing bunch.

"I have never made an April Fool’s joke in my life, and this certainly isn’t one."

"I am glad to share this sentiment with you, PZ. I hate april-fools-gotcha jokes."

"I never could work out why April Fools day was such a big thing. It struck me too much as a bullying tactic. I’m glad to say I’ve never gone there."

"Never had the slightest use for April 1st idiocy."

"I hate April Fools’ Day. It’s a day for taking advantage of other people’s trust in order to make them feel stupid for your own sadistic amusement. No thanks."

"Thank you! Fuck I hate april fools."

"fuck this stupid day"