Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Continuation of the post at Abbie Smith's ERV blog (http://scienceblogs.com/erv/)

Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Apples » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:03 am  •  [Post 13501]

cunt wrote:
Am I alone in considering all of this dreadfully strained & obviously faux 'pussy-footing-around' with polite etiquette & excruciatingly restricted & embarrassingly laboured ceremonial language somewhat hard to stomach?


Nope.


Yeah, this whole thing is turning out to be as exciting as a slap-fight between snails with chronic fatigue syndrome.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:04 am  •  [Post 13502]

Scented Nectar wrote:
Aneris wrote:
Apples wrote:Mr. Schach's integrity and observational powers are a hallmark of his posting history at Pharyngula:

Image


He's right. Team A consists of 100% Named Persons. Team B only of 50%*. Check Mate, Team B!

Let's move the stuff over to Jacks dedicated thread.
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=80728#p80728

*That Team B has twice as much Named Person shall not count.

Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!


Wait, really? Where?
If you're going to ignore me, then actually do it. But that does require some work. So you probably won't do it right. Also, if the worst thing that happens in my day is you not talking to me anymore? Fuck yeah!
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Dilurk » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:06 am  •  [Post 13503]

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby remusm8 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:07 am  •  [Post 13504]

Image

ruh roh
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Tigzy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:26 am  •  [Post 13505]

Tony Parsehole wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:
ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:If you want to know the difference between FfTB and the 'Pit, read the thread below. Trigger Warning for tediousness, self-congratulatory wanking, and lack of imagination. Bonus point if you can be bothered to work out what percentage of posts are by Caine.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/03/31/dude-trust-me-you-do-not-want-to-go-in-there/


Answer: they really, genuinely, actually, literally have no sense of humor.

This! So much this!

*weeps*


To be honest, when I saw that picture of a white bearded male idealogue stepping out from a cave, I thought PZ was about to announce yet another co-blogger.
"It should be noted that among the more alarming tendencies of those men who participate in train-spotters' groups, one will also find a complete disinclination to discuss feminism or women's issues."

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Hunt » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:27 am  •  [Post 13506]

Apples wrote:
cunt wrote:
Am I alone in considering all of this dreadfully strained & obviously faux 'pussy-footing-around' with polite etiquette & excruciatingly restricted & embarrassingly laboured ceremonial language somewhat hard to stomach?


Nope.


Yeah, this whole thing is turning out to be as exciting as a slap-fight between snails with chronic fatigue syndrome.


I tried reading Svan's statement a second time thinking I must have missed the exciting, relevant content and almost went to sleep. What a snoozefest. "This is your discussion on Valium."
"...you can do what you want to do with this if you feel confident that nothing will go wrong."
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Hunt » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:30 am  •  [Post 13507]

Sorry, Zvalium.
"...you can do what you want to do with this if you feel confident that nothing will go wrong."
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby debaser71 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:44 am  •  [Post 13508]

justinvacula wrote:PZ talks about a panel he attended:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2013 ... -few-days/

"Bullies Still Suck: Why We Don’t Just Get Over It. Oh, jeez. The most depressing panel ever. I was on it with Mickey Schulz (Geek Girls Rule!) and Maida “Mac” Cain. I think I was there to represent targets of online bullying, but here’s the deal: it was attended by a large number of SF con nerds and geeks who could give us all lessons on what real bullying is like. I didn’t have to say much at all: the audience spoke out with testimonials about their lives as four-eyed nerds, gay people, trans women, Asperger kids, “sluts” so-called, and rape victims. I think my main job here should have just been to shut up and listen."


He was there to represent targets of online bullying? Huh?


PZ can't bring himself to say that white cis hegemonic privileged males get bullied?

"four-eyed nerds" "Asperger kids"

Fuck you to the ground PZ Myers.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Karmakin » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:45 am  •  [Post 13509]

PZ is one of those bullies.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Wonderist » Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:58 am  •  [Post 13510]

Kudos to John Greg, for his comment getting through on Zvan's blog, and proving that in principle dissent would not be censored there. I've added a couple of my own, detailed here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=286&p=80977#p80847
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Wonderist » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:00 am  •  [Post 13511]

remusm8 wrote:Image

ruh roh

(in an elevator)
(the *asking* part!!)
(... or the sex part, why not? ;) )
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AnonymousCowherd » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:04 am  •  [Post 13512]

justinvacula wrote:Image

More non-offensive pics in accord with conduct policy.... with Greta Christina

http://eventifier.co/event/aacon13/?page=3



I like they way the one in the middle has just had a really, really good idea.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Wonderist » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:08 am  •  [Post 13513]

John Greg wrote:As I previously posted, I have entered a comment on Zvan's blog, and one (yet to pass moderation) on Nugent's blog, responding to the initial statments from both Jack and Zvan. However, I have not yet passed moderation on Nugent's blog ... time? locale? ... I don't know.

Due to the 'two sides' nature of moderation there, moderation will be slower than sites where moderation is unilateral. Also, they are co-developing moderation procedures and guidelines as they go, working out the kinks and bugs which collaborative moderation introduces by its very nature. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, time zones.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Apples » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:28 am  •  [Post 13514]

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AnonymousCowherd » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:29 am  •  [Post 13515]

BarnOwl wrote:Also, the chartjunk on Zvan's post reminds me of the clipart that is used in Powerpoints by administrative touchy-feely types in academia. Might be common practice in the business world, but makes acolytes of Edward Tufte (like myself) cringe.


Without knowing a thing about Tufte, they make me cringe too. Anything that even vaguely suggests Powerp... see, I nearly fell asleep typing it. Mind you, as a way of making it appear like a vapid presentation had any structure, or points made, Powerp... did it again, is the go to app and Svan's pabulum really could have done with that treatment. It all so "life's rich tapestry, many ways to salvation, finding best practice yadda yadda..."

It's so content free, I'd almost be moved to disagree with it just on principle. Yes, yes, "unhelpful" I know.
it seems to me that science and love of my fellow human beings is more than sufficient argument to guide the entirety of my life - Rev. PC Myers.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Parody Accountant » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:35 am  •  [Post 13516]

Is there a running list of gaffes from the call-out culture? That 'rag-head' comment is pretty messed up. I'm aware of 'science it works bitches', and a few others. How long would a comprehensive list be though?
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Postby Apples » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:42 am  •  [Post 13517]

Over at Nugent's David Leech gets into a back-and-forth with John Morales and argues for dictionary atheism:
The conflict come about because dictionary atheists like me don’t want atheism = politics and with good reason. We are forever explaining to the theists that atheism is not equal to communism, how high is their body count again? Then a bunch of atheists start claiming that atheism does indeed include a very left wing type of politics. Can’t you see how problematic this is? How the theists will use this and say ‘here we go again.’ A person can be both atheist and political but atheism needs to be apolitical and inclusive.

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/31 ... ent-210590
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Apples » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:49 am  •  [Post 13518]

Parody Accountant wrote:Is there a running list of gaffes from the call-out culture? That 'rag-head' comment is pretty messed up. I'm aware of 'science it works bitches', and a few others. How long would a comprehensive list be though?


Very few of them claim slurs can't be used ironically (except when we do it) - "bitches ain't shit/be crazy" is pretty routine at Pharyngula. Left-Side Positive says "cunt" even more than cunt does as she invents insane shit to attribute to us. Here she is at Zvan's accurately characterizing one of Jack's statements:

LeftSidePositive wrote:
Jack wrote:However, when people in one such space criticize or challenge other people, we feel it’s important for them to accept rebuttal or presentation of counter-evidence in accordance with the core principles outlined above.


**”You’re a fat cunt who ought to be raped” is rebuttal and counter-evidence that you have to accept. And when our rebuttals are wordy, repetitive, logically inconsistent, and repeatedly ignore counter-arguments and direct questions, you still have to accept us posting them over and over and OVER again.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AnonymousCowherd » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:49 am  •  [Post 13519]

Parody Accountant wrote:Is there a running list of gaffes from the call-out culture? That 'rag-head' comment is pretty messed up. I'm aware of 'science it works bitches', and a few others. How long would a comprehensive list be though?


Well, there's 80+k posts here and another 100+k on the old 'pit - that should turn up a few.
it seems to me that science and love of my fellow human beings is more than sufficient argument to guide the entirety of my life - Rev. PC Myers.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Apples » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:59 am  •  [Post 13520]

Well, Wonderist, here's your chance to test your skillz against LeftSidePositive (and Zvan's moderation policies) - and look! There's Brony, too.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222519
http://www.freezepage.com/1364824344BMFBGKGOPJ
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Re: stereotype threat narrative

Postby debaser71 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:00 am  •  [Post 13521]

Jack wrote:
Apples wrote:So this is one of the Pharyngula wiki's sources on "Stereotype Threat" in stem fields. The methodology of the study discussed is .... interesting.
They had male and female scientists at a research university wear the audio recorders and go about their work. When the scientists analyzed the audio samples, they found there was a pattern in the way the male and female professors talked to one another.

When male scientists talked to other scientists about their research, it energized them. But it was a different story for women.

"For women, the pattern was just the opposite, specifically in their conversations with male colleagues," Schmader said. "So the more women in their conversations with male colleagues were talking about research, the more disengaged they reported being in their work."

Disengagement predicts that someone is at risk of dropping out.

There was another sign of trouble.

When female scientists talked to other female scientists, they sounded perfectly competent. But when they talked to male colleagues, Mehl and Schmader found that they sounded less competent.

One obvious explanation was that the men were being nasty to their female colleagues and throwing them off their game. Mehl and Schmader checked the tapes.

"We don't have any evidence that there is anything that men are saying to make this happen," Schmader said.

But the audiotapes did provide a clue about what was going on. When the male and female scientists weren't talking about work, the women reported feeling more engaged.

For Mehl and Schmader, this was the smoking gun that an insidious psychological phenomenon called "stereotype threat" was at work. It could potentially explain the disparity between men and women pursuing science and math careers.


http://www.npr.org/2012/07/12/156664337 ... ience-jobs


Erm, where's the science in this? What other conditions may have influenced the results? What was the sample size? What were the results? Where was it? Are there local cultural influences? It may be right but that report shows nothing more than perhaps something to test..scientifically.

Is that their evidence?


This is from a few pages back.

Where's the "study" on men entering traditionally women's spaces? Like full time primary parenting? Why is it that I (and many others can, men and women) still overcome these "stereotypes" where others can not? Why is is that some people are able to conform (at least a bit) to fit in better where other people would rather cry in the corner than change their behavior (even slightly)?

And I'd like to point out that when women enter STEM fields they aren't harassed by law enforcement over nothing. (Like men sometimes are for the horrid crime of bringing their toddler to the park in the presence of women). The "stereotype" of being a criminal is IMO worse than the stereotype of not being good at math.

So yeah, what about the men?
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AnonymousCowherd » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:32 am  •  [Post 13522]

I think I can see Svan's strategy now. If anyone is awake after reading the screed at Nugent's, you'll have agreed that "there's lots of different ways of doing everything and all of them are good" (because you were being polite). So the FTB way is good and you can shut up about it now as you are just trying to shut down a alternative approach. Hypocrite!

Then she'll move on to condemning prescriptive pronouncements on how to "do" atheism like this;

Dictionary Atheists disbelieve in gods and dislike religion, but that’s it. The fact that the universe is an uncaring place, that we’re products of chance and necessity rather than benevolence, that we only have each other to help ourselves through this life…none of that matters. So when you say that reason demands equality, when rationality dictates community, when justice ought to be part of the godless agenda, they reflexively throw out that dictionary definition to deny any expectation that there ought to be more to atheism than cussing out gods. They’re intellectual cowards who run away from the full implications of living in a godless universe.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... r-meaning/


Won't she?
it seems to me that science and love of my fellow human beings is more than sufficient argument to guide the entirety of my life - Rev. PC Myers.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Skep tickle » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:35 am  •  [Post 13523]

Wonderist wrote:
John Greg wrote:As I previously posted, I have entered a comment on Zvan's blog, and one (yet to pass moderation) on Nugent's blog, responding to the initial statments from both Jack and Zvan. However, I have not yet passed moderation on Nugent's blog ... time? locale? ... I don't know.

Due to the 'two sides' nature of moderation there, moderation will be slower than sites where moderation is unilateral. Also, they are co-developing moderation procedures and guidelines as they go, working out the kinks and bugs which collaborative moderation introduces by its very nature. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, time zones.

Mod team is working together quite harmoniously. Reaching agreement hasn't been hard, but we started off talking via Skype about each post at first to get a sense of how much we were on the same page, and the different time zones introduce delay into that process. We're now moving to more email communication, but still waiting to have the mods from both sides agree before approving posts. That part, too will probably get more relaxed as the process unfolds.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:43 am  •  [Post 13524]

Karmakin wrote:PZ is one of those bullies.


PZ is an unbearable cancer over the atheistic community.

Here, I said it.
I'm posting this statement feeling confident that nothing will go wrong.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Tigzy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:47 am  •  [Post 13525]

Apples wrote:Hank Fox is decamping for Patheos:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/bluecollara ... s-oh-wait/


At this rate, anyone would think that FTB is a training school for religiously inspired blogging, or something.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby debaser71 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:48 am  •  [Post 13526]

When I was a kid a bully was someone who beat the snot out of you for no reason other than to show off how "cool" they were.

So "bully" these days means someone who talks tough on the internet?

I'm not buying it. Sticks and stones and all that.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Tigzy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:48 am  •  [Post 13527]

Southern wrote:
Karmakin wrote:PZ is one of those bullies.


PZ is an unbearable cancer over the atheistic community.


It wouldn't even be quite so bad if he at least had a sense of tumor about it.
"It should be noted that among the more alarming tendencies of those men who participate in train-spotters' groups, one will also find a complete disinclination to discuss feminism or women's issues."

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Submariner » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:55 am  •  [Post 13528]

Apples wrote:Well, Wonderist, here's your chance to test your skillz against LeftSidePositive (and Zvan's moderation policies) - and look! There's Brony, too.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222519


(Wonderist @47)
Could you cite specific examples of this ‘harassment’? I’ve heard many claims of harassment, but none that I’ve seen so far have lived up to the actual definition of harassment as I understand it, based on my admittedly limited reading of the legal issues. Perhaps you could also define what you mean by ‘harassment’? Does anything on FTB count as harassment? Do false accusations of supporting “bullying and harassment” count as harassment in your view?

If, by your own definition, some behaviour on FTB counts as harassment, would you also hold yourself up to the standard that “if you notice that the [FTB] is harassing people, and you choose to stick around and be friends with them, you are enabling them. You are giving them social support for their views.”



48
Stephanie Zvan

April 1, 2013 at 9:28 am (UTC -5)

False accusations of bullying and harassment?

Yeah, fuck you. Go away.


Yup. Echo chamber tuned and calibrated.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Apples » Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:58 am  •  [Post 13529]

Submariner wrote:Yup. Echo chamber tuned and calibrated.

Stephanie "Cobra Kai" Zvan - Strike first, strike hard, ban your opponent.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Wonderist » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:13 am  •  [Post 13530]

Demonstration of the necessity of the principle of 'right of reply', here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=286&p=81002#p81001
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby JackSkeptic » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:13 am  •  [Post 13531]

Submariner wrote:
Apples wrote:Well, Wonderist, here's your chance to test your skillz against LeftSidePositive (and Zvan's moderation policies) - and look! There's Brony, too.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222519


(Wonderist @47)
Could you cite specific examples of this ‘harassment’? I’ve heard many claims of harassment, but none that I’ve seen so far have lived up to the actual definition of harassment as I understand it, based on my admittedly limited reading of the legal issues. Perhaps you could also define what you mean by ‘harassment’? Does anything on FTB count as harassment? Do false accusations of supporting “bullying and harassment” count as harassment in your view?

If, by your own definition, some behaviour on FTB counts as harassment, would you also hold yourself up to the standard that “if you notice that the [FTB] is harassing people, and you choose to stick around and be friends with them, you are enabling them. You are giving them social support for their views.”



48
Stephanie Zvan

April 1, 2013 at 9:28 am (UTC -5)

False accusations of bullying and harassment?

Yeah, fuck you. Go away.


Yup. Echo chamber tuned and calibrated.


Nice post Wonderist. Facing a simple question they don't like?..ban.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby agarybuseychristmas » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:25 am  •  [Post 13532]

Buut... buuut I thought false accusations never realed!
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Phil_Giordana_FCD » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:27 am  •  [Post 13533]

Guest wrote:
So, let me get this straight. They're wearing balaclavas. And carrying a sign saying FUCK THE POPE.

After we're done with this debate thing, can we get Michael Nugent to explain a couple of basic points to these people? Or else just hold an atheist convention in West Belfast, and invite these morons, and let nature take its course.


That would be a hoot, I'm sure. Explosive, probably...
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby debaser71 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:32 am  •  [Post 13534]

agarybuseychristmas wrote:Buut... buuut I thought false accusations never realed!


And when they are "real" they are easily dismissed as no big deal. See, because PZ (fuck him to the ground) says so.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AbsurdWalls » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:32 am  •  [Post 13535]



That was good to read, I agree with most of what she says.

I think it is important to notice (probably most people do) how much the "deep rifts" are really dozens and dozens of personal issues. I think that's the reason why it has not extended into the wider community. There's no real impetus to "pick a side" until somebody wrongs you, and then once you are being called a rape apologist or a chill girl or a mangina or whatever it becomes harder to remain neutral. Of course other people are drawn in without being personally attacked, but that can be as a result of feeling sympathy for somebody who is being unfairly victimised.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby codelette » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:33 am  •  [Post 13536]

Goddammit, this forum moves too fast! I spent the weekend painting kitchen cabinets (hell exist and it is composed of an infinite amount of kitchen cabinets that need painting). Come back and read about Timbledoo hoopla, Ellen Beth wrote something about something, and there's some sort of debate. We need weekly summaries atop the forum...
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby agarybuseychristmas » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:35 am  •  [Post 13537]

So, I'd like to know if my general thought is right. Are these fucks just continually being marginalized in the greater skeptic community? It seems that a division has arisen between the 'atheist' community and the skeptic community at large.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby codelette » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:36 am  •  [Post 13538]

And wait, did I read right or is PZ another victim of false rape accusations? At this rate, by next year, FTB will be MRA central.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Lsuoma » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:41 am  •  [Post 13539]

Steersman wrote:And his complaints about him being photoshopped into some gay-porn – supposedly, although apparently no evidence of that here – along with Ophelia’s crocodile tears about appearing in some Skepsheik cartoons are likewise discredited ….

He and Grag were shopped onto gay porn by a troll at a link over at Nugnut's place. I pointed it out, and it got removed very quickly.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby codelette » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:45 am  •  [Post 13540]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby JackSkeptic » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:45 am  •  [Post 13541]

agarybuseychristmas wrote:So, I'd like to know if my general thought is right. Are these fucks just continually being marginalized in the greater skeptic community? It seems that a division has arisen between the 'atheist' community and the skeptic community at large.


It's been an issue for some time, with discussions such as Skeptisism's relevance to theism. If a claim can't be falsified it is, arguably, not open to sceptical enquiry. There's also the fact that atheism does not in itself influence someone's political beliefs or ability to reason.

So really anyone with an ideology has a good chance of trying to inject it into atheism simply by saying 'we need to be more' as PMZ and others do. They were trounced at JREF due to JREF's base belief in skeptisism. The atheist community, such as it is, does not have that underpinning as a set of core principles.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby JackSkeptic » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:47 am  •  [Post 13542]

Lsuoma wrote:
Steersman wrote:And his complaints about him being photoshopped into some gay-porn – supposedly, although apparently no evidence of that here – along with Ophelia’s crocodile tears about appearing in some Skepsheik cartoons are likewise discredited ….

He and Grag were shopped onto gay porn by a troll at a link over at Nugnut's place. I pointed it out, and it got removed very quickly.


He's happy to feed the trolls when it suits him.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:54 am  •  [Post 13543]

Jack wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:
Steersman wrote:And his complaints about him being photoshopped into some gay-porn – supposedly, although apparently no evidence of that here – along with Ophelia’s crocodile tears about appearing in some Skepsheik cartoons are likewise discredited ….

He and Grag were shopped onto gay porn by a troll at a link over at Nugnut's place. I pointed it out, and it got removed very quickly.


He's happy to feed the trolls when it suits him.


If Pope PeeZee had any sense of humor, he would at least take the photoshops in jest - that's how you disarm trolls. But of course that does not produces drama and blog hits, so bitching and wailing will do it.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby ERV » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:00 am  •  [Post 13544]

codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Yup. Welcome to my experience two years ago, EBW. Forgive me for having zero sympathy for you.

Im also not about to give EBW a pass-- I only 'encountered' her through friends Facebook feeds. I didnt say a word to/at/about her, however I immediately blocked her because I saw *her* being aggressive/confrontational/combative (not Pharyngula commentors, nor was she just going along with Pharyngula commentors). *She* was being batshit, and loving it.

Not interested in taking her off block.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Tigzy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:10 am  •  [Post 13545]

ERV wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Yup. Welcome to my experience two years ago, EBW. Forgive me for having zero sympathy for you.

Im also not about to give EBW a pass-- I only 'encountered' her through friends Facebook feeds. I didnt say a word to/at/about her, however I immediately blocked her because I saw *her* being aggressive/confrontational/combative (not Pharyngula commentors, nor was she just going along with Pharyngula commentors). *She* was being batshit, and loving it.

Not interested in taking her off block.


:clap:

I don't have much sympathy for EllenBeth 'Don't be fooled by his game when he rapes your daughter' Wachs either. The biter got bit, that's all, and she's butthurt over getting what she's dished out to others. Too bad.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Pepsi » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:20 am  •  [Post 13546]

I hope the irony in being bit by herself makes her think. I don't care too much that she was offended but I'll still criticize them for what they said. It still wasn't right of them. They weren't saying that to give her a taste of her own medicine; it was assumptive and prejudiced crap.

PZ being accused? I read back and I think someone said this already but I'm not too keen on taking PZ seriously, and I may even go along with the OP and say that idk if lousy canuck was accused of rape either. I mean, he's not even wondering if perhaps that accuser really did tell someone she was raped by him. Or is it that she doesn't like girls and can't possibly have a girlfriend? You never know though.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:34 am  •  [Post 13547]

ERV wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Yup. Welcome to my experience two years ago, EBW. Forgive me for having zero sympathy for you.

Im also not about to give EBW a pass-- I only 'encountered' her through friends Facebook feeds. I didnt say a word to/at/about her, however I immediately blocked her because I saw *her* being aggressive/confrontational/combative (not Pharyngula commentors, nor was she just going along with Pharyngula commentors). *She* was being batshit, and loving it.

Not interested in taking her off block.


Exactly. She dug herself into a position of total lunacy and weak trolling, but it was alright, she had her super-friends Melody, Marcotte, Stephuny, Prunella and PZ backing her up. Nice you're seeing what they really are, EWB, but you weren't that different from them, you disingenuos cunt.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Southern » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:36 am  •  [Post 13548]

Pepsi wrote:I hope the irony in being bit by herself makes her think. I don't care too much that she was offended but I'll still criticize them for what they said. It still wasn't right of them. They weren't saying that to give her a taste of her own medicine; it was assumptive and prejudiced crap.

PZ being accused? I read back and I think someone said this already but I'm not too keen on taking PZ seriously, and I may even go along with the OP and say that idk if lousy canuck was accused of rape either. I mean, he's not even wondering if perhaps that accuser really did tell someone she was raped by him. Or is it that she doesn't like girls and can't possibly have a girlfriend? You never know though.


I totally believe that PZ was accused of being a rapist - he hangs up with Rebeca Watson, after all, and she's very good at calling inocent people rapists.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:41 am  •  [Post 13549]

codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.



Yep. The irony in that was rich.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:42 am  •  [Post 13550]

ERV wrote:
codelette wrote:PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Yup. Welcome to my experience two years ago, EBW. Forgive me for having zero sympathy for you.

Im also not about to give EBW a pass-- I only 'encountered' her through friends Facebook feeds. I didnt say a word to/at/about her, however I immediately blocked her because I saw *her* being aggressive/confrontational/combative (not Pharyngula commentors, nor was she just going along with Pharyngula commentors). *She* was being batshit, and loving it.

Not interested in taking her off block.


She's...definitely interesting to watch. It should be more interesting to see how she responds to all this over the long term.
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Re:

Postby Whisper Walrus » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:43 am  •  [Post 13551]

Apples wrote:Over at Nugent's David Leech gets into a back-and-forth with John Morales and argues for dictionary atheism:
The conflict come about because dictionary atheists like me don’t want atheism = politics and with good reason. We are forever explaining to the theists that atheism is not equal to communism, how high is their body count again? Then a bunch of atheists start claiming that atheism does indeed include a very left wing type of politics. Can’t you see how problematic this is? How the theists will use this and say ‘here we go again.’ A person can be both atheist and political but atheism needs to be apolitical and inclusive.

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/31 ... ent-210590


I don't understand why assholes want to change the definition anyway. I don't arrive to any of my views on politics, people, human rights, etc. directly because of atheism, and I sincerely doubt anyone else does either. No one decides/realizes they're an atheist and suddenly takes on a certain specific set of views (watching the FC(n) crowd will show you that these certain views are not innate to being an atheist).

I do, however, completely recognize that I'm able to hold these views because I'm atheist. This is clearly an indirect relationship; because I'm an atheist, I do not have a holy text or what have you that I will follow to give me these ideas. I have to think on these issues myself and reach my own conclusions. Not everyone comes to the same conclusions; if we did, these "deep rifts" would probably not be a thing.

More than that, not every atheist wants it to mean more. My wife is an atheist and that is the complete extent of it; no belief in any sort of god(s), and the day goes on. Her desire to be an activist in the atheist community is so dim that she doesn't even want to hear me talk about most of the things that catch my eye. She's the sort that takes on an issue solely because she sees a wrong, not because simply because it applies to atheism, feminism, or any other -ism.

The truth is that many atheists fit the name exactly and only that far, and we do them a disservice by trying to make the word mean more than it does. How big of a dick move is it to put them in a the position of having to explain to people, "No, I don't believe in god, but I also can't call myself an atheist because that implies that I'm also x and I am in fact y."? Next thing that comes is for those atheists to find a term that fits them. Then, of course, atheists that, instead of holding y instead of x position, take a more b versus a stance on another issue, and they have to have a new label. And so it goes. The last thing we need are 20 different flavors of atheism, as has happened to feminism or, beautiful irony, Christianity and it's dozens upon dozens of different branches and denominations.

But, you know, by all means PZ/Morales/assholes, let's totally not learn from the mistakes of others.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby welch » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:44 am  •  [Post 13552]

Pepsi wrote:I hope the irony in being bit by herself makes her think. I don't care too much that she was offended but I'll still criticize them for what they said. It still wasn't right of them. They weren't saying that to give her a taste of her own medicine; it was assumptive and prejudiced crap.

PZ being accused? I read back and I think someone said this already but I'm not too keen on taking PZ seriously, and I may even go along with the OP and say that idk if lousy canuck was accused of rape either. I mean, he's not even wondering if perhaps that accuser really did tell someone she was raped by him. Or is it that she doesn't like girls and can't possibly have a girlfriend? You never know though.



The richer irony is that if we take PeeZus' claim at face value, and I've little reason not to, had the person accusing him in that case done "everything exactly right" ala Adria Richards, PeeZus would have been truly fucked. Yet he is possessed of such little awareness, self- or otherwise, that he cannot even begin to see this.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby debaser71 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:46 am  •  [Post 13553]

Heck, that people talk about atheism at all is a win in my book. It wasn't so long ago that I felt like the only atheist in the world. YMMV.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Cunning Punt » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:48 am  •  [Post 13554]

ConcentratedH2O, OM wrote:If you want to know the difference between FfTB and the 'Pit, read the thread below. Trigger Warning for tediousness, self-congratulatory wanking, and lack of imagination. Bonus point if you can be bothered to work out what percentage of posts are by Caine.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2013/03/31/dude-trust-me-you-do-not-want-to-go-in-there/


Leave them alone. They are practicing "humor".
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Bhurzum » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:50 am  •  [Post 13555]

Apples wrote:Stephanie "Cobra Kai" Zvan - Strike first, strike hard, ban your opponent.


Image

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Pepsi » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:52 am  •  [Post 13556]

@welch Yes, I know! I guess being accused wasn't enough of a lesson, but it would be such a shame if someone like PZ could only be brought to rethink things if his life was ruined by public shaming of innocents, in that case being him. If that's the case, oh well. It isn't justice.

The statements at the site do seem rather verbose. My only suggestions are not to be too polite and word things simpler, else it will get tiresome. People shouldn't unleash frustrations or bitter criticisms though, that would of course ruin the dialogue. The Lefty guy on atheism+ forums thinks that gendered insults show you are against equality for all? Then why not criticize the use of dick? The only people I see trying to make the words bitch and cunt into something specifically oppressive toward women are them. If that's what they want to say, then most people are enemies of equality. I've never heard of those words being considered oppressive other than on the internet spaces of A+. Tons of either wise decent people use bitch and cunt as an insult. What, I don't even... How do these people even function? How do they have friends IRL? It's hard to hang out without hearing someone call someone a bitch one day, either in venting or in a fight. They must think most people are scum.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Scented Nectar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:02 am  •  [Post 13557]

welch wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Aneris wrote:
Apples wrote:Mr. Schach's integrity and observational powers are a hallmark of his posting history at Pharyngula:

Image


He's right. Team A consists of 100% Named Persons. Team B only of 50%*. Check Mate, Team B!

Let's move the stuff over to Jacks dedicated thread.
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=80728#p80728

*That Team B has twice as much Named Person shall not count.

Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!


Wait, really? Where?

I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:05 am  •  [Post 13558]

Pepsi wrote:@welch Yes, I know! I guess being accused wasn't enough of a lesson, but it would be such a shame if someone like PZ could only be brought to rethink things if his life was ruined by public shaming of innocents, in that case being him. If that's the case, oh well. It isn't justice.

The statements at the site do seem rather verbose. My only suggestions are not to be too polite and word things simpler, else it will get tiresome. People shouldn't unleash frustrations or bitter criticisms though, that would of course ruin the dialogue. The Lefty guy on atheism+ forums thinks that gendered insults show you are against equality for all? Then why not criticize the use of dick? The only people I see trying to make the words bitch and cunt into something specifically oppressive toward women are them. If that's what they want to say, then most people are enemies of equality. I've never heard of those words being considered oppressive other than on the internet spaces of A+. Tons of either wise decent people use bitch and cunt as an insult. What, I don't even... How do these people even function? How do they have friends IRL? It's hard to hang out without hearing someone call someone a bitch one day, either in venting or in a fight. They must think most people are scum.

OMGPEPSIGATE

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby AbsurdWalls » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:05 am  •  [Post 13559]

Southern wrote:
Jack wrote:
Lsuoma wrote:
Steersman wrote:And his complaints about him being photoshopped into some gay-porn – supposedly, although apparently no evidence of that here – along with Ophelia’s crocodile tears about appearing in some Skepsheik cartoons are likewise discredited ….

He and Grag were shopped onto gay porn by a troll at a link over at Nugnut's place. I pointed it out, and it got removed very quickly.


He's happy to feed the trolls when it suits him.


If Pope PeeZee had any sense of humor, he would at least take the photoshops in jest - that's how you disarm trolls. But of course that does not produces drama and blog hits, so bitching and wailing will do it.


Gabe and Tycho of Penny Arcade managed to effectively defuse their trolls in that way.
http://slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=82996#p82996
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Cunning Punt » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:06 am  •  [Post 13560]

Tony Parsehole wrote:
Parody Accountant wrote:
PZ Myers
31 March 2013 at 2:15 pm (UTC -5) Link to this comment [#8]
“Clear! No ragheads hiding in this cave! But bring in the flamethrower to be sure.”

Kind of racist? That's definitely an ethnic slur. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#R/

I thought they demanded a zero-tolerance SJW rule against ironic usage and/or jokes.

PZ's racist epithet aside, the joke doesn't make sense to me. If all-knowing / all-seeing Jesus also took the time to manually 'clear' the cave, what possible doubt could there be?

Notice how he put the slur in quotation marks so he has a get-out-of-jail-free excuse if he's called on it?

'Oh I would never say 'raghead'! I was obviously writing in the style of a Slymepitter! BANNED!'


He was using it ironically. It's okay to do that - at least when you're on the correct side.

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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Bhurzum » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:07 am  •  [Post 13561]

Scented Nectar wrote:I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.


/nudge

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You owe me.

Just a wee reminder :D
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:10 am  •  [Post 13562]

Scented Nectar wrote:
welch wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:
Aneris wrote:
Apples wrote:Mr. Schach's integrity and observational powers are a hallmark of his posting history at Pharyngula:

Image


He's right. Team A consists of 100% Named Persons. Team B only of 50%*. Check Mate, Team B!

Let's move the stuff over to Jacks dedicated thread.
viewtopic.php?f=29&p=80728#p80728

*That Team B has twice as much Named Person shall not count.

Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!


Wait, really? Where?

I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.

all i can easily find is blu talking about it

http://www.skepticismandethics.com/2011 ... minati.htm

considering all zvan's comments over time, would be REALLY interested in the truth of it
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Scented Nectar » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:18 am  •  [Post 13563]

Bhurzum wrote:
Scented Nectar wrote:I don't have the link, but she said it quite a while back, like over a year ago.


/nudge

Lunch (& "crack" coffee)

You owe me.

Just a wee reminder :D

Ok, but don't be slipping any colloidal silver in my mug. I don't want to turn blue like you and Diana. I swear Diana Boston looks blue as a corpse these days. :P

For those who don't know what the fuck we're talking about, it starts with this video making fun of the notoriously insane youtube feminist, Diana Boston (aka SaelPalani). Few people can last very far into it. I couldn't even last a minute. Poor Bhurzum lost his lunch because of this video.
TRIGGER WARNING!!!!! (not cuz I'm nice, it's cuz I can't afford more lunches!)
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Pepsi » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:18 am  •  [Post 13564]

What do they mean, the guts? Why do they want people to use names so bad? The only cowardice they could accuse people of is wanting to be secure so that people don't invade in their home lives. People should not be goaded into bringing their life online if they don't want to. If people feel like they're risking something by giving those people information they aren't entitled to, especially with some of their habit of tryinf to fuck with people's jobs and home lives, they need to respect that and back off. What happened to personal boundaries? I see some of them squawk about boundaries lots. Trying to dress up wanting privacy from malicious people as "having guts" is pretty dishonest. It would be too much to have people addressing me by name with some of the hostile things they say. It would feel 10 times more personal and it would be multiple times more hostile.

No one give in and listen to those folks. They'll make you regret it. Imagine it. "You're a piece of shit, Nameyour Friendsuseallthetime Andyourmommygaveyou.
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Re: Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

Postby Apples » Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:21 am  •  [Post 13565]

Cerberus: Fucking Oppression, Man wrote:That’s because they want one true “movement” that they can use as a personal badge. Something that’s safely a “He Man Women Hater’s Club” and thus not tainted by non-white, non-normative, and/or female participants. Where, in fact, said minority members know better than to even try to belong if they aren’t spending the entire time praising the “real movement” for what intellectual dexterity it takes to not believe in things that those group members were not personally raised in.

Because, by having been at one time a white male dominated group, they invested in it as a source of alternative masculinity in the toxic masculinity sense. What I mean is that by the rules of toxic masculinity, this group was feeling pressure and reduction and so invested in atheism a sort of alternative way of separating themselves from femininity and arguing that belonging to this male-dominated group made them way smarter than everyone and totally manly because everyone knows that only men are smart and so on.

In other words, they’re having a tantrum because they were using atheism to try and go to toxic masculinity “hey, we might not be jocks, but we’re still willing to kick the women and hang out in homosocial-only spaces! So we still count as manly enough to be considered ‘men’, right?” and now there are all these chicks running around wanting to talk about girly shit and making them feel dumb and very similar to the people they were lording over because on certain issues they are almost exactly the same.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-594483

This. This. A thousand times - what?
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