Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Wonderist]

Steffy admitted once that 'Stephanie Zvan' is not her real name. All the talk against anonymous people should include her too. :lol:

Extra funny is how she freaks out over anyone mis-spelling her pseudonym!

I'm guessing googlability. Either so she can track mentions, or so, like in Soviet Russia: Mention tracks you!

[Jan Steen]

That’s because they want one true “movement” that they can use as a personal badge. Something that’s safely a “He Man Women Hater’s Club” and thus not tainted by non-white, non-normative, and/or female participants. Where, in fact, said minority members know better than to even try to belong if they aren’t spending the entire time praising the “real movement” for what intellectual dexterity it takes to not believe in things that those group members were not personally raised in.

Because, by having been at one time a white male dominated group, they invested in it as a source of alternative masculinity in the toxic masculinity sense. What I mean is that by the rules of toxic masculinity, this group was feeling pressure and reduction and so invested in atheism a sort of alternative way of separating themselves from femininity and arguing that belonging to this male-dominated group made them way smarter than everyone and totally manly because everyone knows that only men are smart and so on.

In other words, they’re having a tantrum because they were using atheism to try and go to toxic masculinity “hey, we might not be jocks, but we’re still willing to kick the women and hang out in homosocial-only spaces! So we still count as manly enough to be considered ‘men’, right?” and now there are all these chicks running around wanting to talk about girly shit and making them feel dumb and very similar to the people they were lording over because on certain issues they are almost exactly the same.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-594483

This. This. A thousand times - what?

Cerberus must own a brain so completely filled with radfem clichés that there is no room left for connections to reality. :D

[Submariner]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

If you notice my replay to Zvan at Nugent's, I deliberately refused to use her included phrase "cis-gendered". In future posts there, I will avoid any of the newspeak words from their side.

[Tony Parsehole]

Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).

*clicks link*
*sees graph*
*picks up nearby trumpet*
*plays "wa was waaaaaaaa......*

[Submariner]

*reply

danmed edit button.

[Wonderist]

Hey I'm British so I can be deeply insulting without someone even realising it :)

It's 'Team' as in Zvan and a mod for their side. No others have been announced. I originally assume 5 from there but if I were to guess that hasn't happened. That does not mean people are not assisting her or helping in some way. That is the same for us. I see no issue with that and it's a good sign if that is happening. It is silly for people to say we want as many as possible then demand arbitrary limits on that. It's being bloody minded for the sake of it. I don't care if they have an army of thousands helping out. Arguments win or fail on their merits.

Zvan makes some good points and I see that as a good thing. I agree with most of her statement and it is in line with ours (although you wouldn't think that from some comments over there) She's grasped this is about common ground and resisted the urge we all have to go on the attack from the start. She gets my respect for that.

I'm only seeing a couple of comments on either Strand over at the dedicated site for this discussion. Am I doing something RONG?

No, nothing rong. Just slower than typical moderation due to the fact that it is collaborative moderation, not unilateral. And 8 time zones.

Also, arguments should win or fail on their merits, but we've seen arbitrary dismissal of arguments by FtBers many times. FLOOSH!

Hence the need for a 'structured dialogue' to prevent that kind of tactic. Hence the need for a step 1, where we reach agreement that such tactics are not valid, before the dialogue proper begins.

[Jan Steen]

Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).

But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

[Wonderist]

Also, the chartjunk on Zvan's post reminds me of the clipart that is used in Powerpoints by administrative touchy-feely types in academia. Might be common practice in the business world, but makes acolytes of Edward Tufte (like myself) cringe.

I sure wouldn't want one of these puzzle-piece thingies as a support net when things go wrong. Much prefer a more solid foundation to rest upon:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... uxmart.jpg

[Tony Parsehole]

*reply

danmed edit button.

I knew, I knew.

[CommanderTuvok]

We all know there are plenty of (fringe) feminists who will no doubt be skeptical of PZ and JT's claims of false accusations. Ironically, they are the (fringe) feminists who PZ and company looked up to for "advice" about all things feminism.

However, PZ can have no complaints about being falsely accused - after all, men are POTENTIAL RAPISTS.

[Submariner]

*reply

danmed edit button.

I knew, I knew.

Read quoted post CAREFULLY.

[codelette]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

[Tony Parsehole]

But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

I honestly think he'd kill himself. Hopefully in an ironic fashion like cutting his throat with a broken record.

[JackSkeptic]

Hi Fellas,
1) the donations widget on pharyngula hasnt moved AT LEAST since the beginning of this year (and I suspect a LONG time before that too). Its on $17 177. NOT ONE CENT in at least 3 months!
2) Myers and the art of bad timing.
http://oi50.tinypic.com/117zj9l.jpg

Yeah, that graph does look like his book will be released almost at the same time he 'crashes n burns'.

Still find it incredibly ironic that the guy who rose to 'fame' by offending peoples feelings, expects everyone else to behave in a way he thinks will not hurt certain womens feelings (dongle jokes etc).

But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

He can *Floosh** himself.

[justinvacula]

Freethought Blogs to go offline, Rebecca Watson admits hoax

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... mits-hoax/

[Tony Parsehole]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".

[Angry_Drunk]

I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.

[Wonderist]

Most mediators seem to act in stages, Michael. The number of stages do vary, but here is a good document that shows them clearly.

Very helpful comment, Corylus, thanks. Didn't want to quote your whole comment, but it's here in case anyone wants to reference it: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=266&start=13425#p80963

Conversely, Jack's statement is deeply practical and based on the assumption that what works is generally helpful for all parties. There is a view that egalitarian systems are actually good for all, and that common goals can be uncovered via evidence based investigation, as opposed to the short-term balancing of individual concerns. There is also a laudable willingness to put some work in displayed throughout. There may be an underestimation of the, generally irrational, nature of the populace in there however.

Interesting first couple of assumptions you mention. I suppose that's true, I pretty much assume that as well: Pragmatism, equality, reason/science.

For myself, I definitely don't underestimate general irrationality. I assume it, and even assume it of myself. It's human nature. Limited cognition and all that; brain evolution, inherent human biases, etc. But, in our statement, I did suggest certain changes to make it more in line with the principle of charity and assuming 'good faith', which I think is also an important and *useful* (pragmatism) tool for sustaining mutually beneficial dialogue.

So here we have (roughly) an INTJ talking to (roughly) an ENFP

Them letters are nearly all different: agreement cannot be assumed.

Michael N, if you are reading, you may send me a consulting fee in the post.

I'm definitely INTP, primarily. Sometimes a tad INTJ, but not sustained. Tested myself several different times with different tests, and each time, same result, INTP.

[codelette]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".

Neurodiverse.

[Wonderist]

Am I alone in considering all of this dreadfully strained & obviously faux 'pussy-footing-around' with polite etiquette & excruciatingly restricted & embarrassingly laboured ceremonial language somewhat hard to stomach?

Nope.

Yeah, this whole thing is turning out to be as exciting as a slap-fight between snails with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Exxxcellent...
http://i.imgur.com/NareU.jpg

[justinvacula]

Richard Carrier's Atheism Plus speech has been uploaded to Youtube. I wonder, was the conference policy violated with this one? Lol. Anyway...I am listening now. This is such a great gift.

[youtube]au2i3xxgv7U[/youtube]

[Tony Parsehole]

PS. Just finished reading EBW blog post. Glad that she noticed how ironic was that Peezus was "mansplaining" shit to her while trying to also act like a feminist warrior.

Mansplaining. Of all the stupid SJW memes and ideas mansplaining takes the fucking biscuit.
Arguments from a man can be dismissed because "mansplaining"? They really do live on another planet don't they?

SJW use various memes that are cringeworthy. I laugh at their stupidity whenever I read about "doubling down" and "unpacking the privilege knapsack".

You may laugh but I shudder at the crime of being "cis-gendered" or "heteronormative".

Neurodiverse.

Rape-apologist (sounds like somebody who says "sorry" after jumping out of a bush and sticking his dick in you).

[ReneeHendricks]

Reading through the stuff regarding Nugent's "Dialogue". It's hard to describe. Speaking for myself, I don't plan on relenting when it comes to pointing out stupidity, ignorance, blatant misandry, and overt hypocrisy. However, in the past few weeks I've found some of the crap lobbed back and forth just unacceptable. Again, this is speaking purely for myself. I would like to establish some sort of middle ground. I have no desire to be painted as a bad person or a misogynist simply because I don't believe feminism should be force fed into our minds and mannerism. Nor do I think that the AtheismPlus agenda has anything to do with a non-existing belief in god or gods. They both have shit-all to do with atheism.

So, while I am intelligent enough to realize there will be no great "group hug" when this is all said and done, I'm also cognizant of the fact that this sort of thing will, at a minimum, publicly show that at our core we are striving for many of the same goals. I was a feminist way before I was an atheist. I was an LGBTQ supporter way before I was an atheist. These ideologies are separate.

[Wonderist]

Hank Fox is decamping for Patheos:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/bluecollara ... s-oh-wait/

Assuming it's not an April Fool's double-gotcha:
[youtube]JSUIQgEVDM4[/youtube]

[codelette]

We all know there are plenty of (fringe) feminists who will no doubt be skeptical of PZ and JT's claims of false accusations. Ironically, they are the (fringe) feminists who PZ and company looked up to for "advice" about all things feminism.

However, PZ can have no complaints about being falsely accused - after all, men are POTENTIAL RAPISTS.

That reminded me of palsy pals: La Marcotte and Hugo Schweyzer. La Marcotte declares the Duke students racist rapists (even after accusation proven false); yet she sides with Hugo and John Edwards. One confessed trying to kill his gf. The other a womanizer. Funniest thing was when Hugo acted as La Marcotte's knight in shinning armor when she was accused of racism by brown feminists.

[Tony Parsehole]

I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.

BUT WHY DON'T YOU AGREE THAT WOMEN ARE PEOPLE?

[Apples]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

[ReneeHendricks]

That all being said, I think this comment on Zvan's blog is rather funny:

I see Renee Hendricks is one of the authors of that piece…she of the great ‘there are some jobs that women just can’t do, and I know because I’m doing one of them’ argument*, and the petty and vicious ‘how dare Greta use her own money to buy shoes!’ debacle**. Doesn’t exactly fill me with confidence that this is going to be productive.

But we’re not going to hear any new arguments from them regardless of who’s involved, are we? It’s just going to be the same old shit about how calling out sexism is worse than sexism itself, with added bits of their individual petty grudges.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... ent-222565

* Once again, completely misconstrued
** Her own money? Really? Just after e-begging for her cancer scare?

[Angry_Drunk]

I've had an epiphany! How could I have been so wrong for so long. Instead of exposing the flawed logic and lack of rational thinking on the part of woo-addled religionists I should have been focusing on enumerating the things we agree on. Let's get started:

- The sky is blue.
- Water is wet
...

Hells, we'll have this problem licked in no time.

BUT WHY DON'T YOU AGREE THAT WOMEN ARE PEOPLE?

I barely consider people "people"

Fuck the whole lot of ya'.

[Steersman]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

[Tony Parsehole]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

*sigh*

[JackSkeptic]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

Sure. I'll let Skeptickle know.

[codelette]

Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...

[ERV]

Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...

Last week was bemoaning the fact 'things were tight' and she and her Cabbage Patch Doll husband couldnt afford to eat out every meal anymore. And they 'dont cook', so BAAAAAAAAAW.

But literally like two tweets earlier she was suggesting her friends get laser hair removal treatments because it worked GREAT for her (costs thousands of dollars).

She is so gross.

[JackSkeptic]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

With the usual bit of racism thrown in for good measure:)

These people are the most racist I have ever come across and I live in an area with 50% non-whites. What a surprise that their bigoted dogma allows that. It's a complete scam.

[Steersman]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up ****.com (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

Sure. I'll let Skeptickle know.

Thanks.

In passing though, I probably shouldn’t have posted that e-mail address – my bad. If Lsuoma wants to edit that out then I’m ok with that, and it might be a good idea to do so.

[codelette]

Sometimes I wonder if Hensley is just mocking the "poor little rich girl" meme. The other she was so sad over not being able to adopt a second pug...

Last week was bemoaning the fact 'things were tight' and she and her Cabbage Patch Doll husband couldnt afford to eat out every meal anymore. And they 'dont cook', so BAAAAAAAAAW.

But literally like two tweets earlier she was suggesting her friends get laser hair removal treatments because it worked GREAT for her (costs thousands of dollars).

She is so gross.

Lol That laser looks like right out of a MAD TV Oprah skit:
"If you want to reduce your spending; cut to half the staff of your second mansion", "for tax breaks: BUY A MOUNTAIN"

[Dick Strawkins]

(NB: Tim Skellett has recently withdrawn from the formal process, and will be doing his own thing I imagine; he's expressed that he does not feel he can fully support the position that was posted; I'll leave it to him to say more from his POV; I get the feeling it's not a personal thing, but an issue of how the 'structured dialogue' is structured into two 'sides', and he's not fully comfortable being put in that position/grouping).

What exactly is the next step in the process?
Are you planning to keep doing the remaining 4 sections exactly like the first stage, the only difference being the absence of Tim Skellett?

[codelette]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

With the usual bit of racism thrown in for good measure:)

These people are the most racist I have ever come across and I live in an area with 50% non-whites. What a surprise that their bigoted dogma allows that. It's a complete scam.

I have noticed that before. Most of them move to white enclaves (cough, MN) and then complain about lack of brown peeps.

[16bitheretic]

Reading through the stuff regarding Nugent's "Dialogue". It's hard to describe. Speaking for myself, I don't plan on relenting when it comes to pointing out stupidity, ignorance, blatant misandry, and overt hypocrisy. However, in the past few weeks I've found some of the crap lobbed back and forth just unacceptable. Again, this is speaking purely for myself. I would like to establish some sort of middle ground. I have no desire to be painted as a bad person or a misogynist simply because I don't believe feminism should be force fed into our minds and mannerism. Nor do I think that the AtheismPlus agenda has anything to do with a non-existing belief in god or gods. They both have shit-all to do with atheism.

So, while I am intelligent enough to realize there will be no great "group hug" when this is all said and done, I'm also cognizant of the fact that this sort of thing will, at a minimum, publicly show that at our core we are striving for many of the same goals. I was a feminist way before I was an atheist. I was an LGBTQ supporter way before I was an atheist. These ideologies are separate.

Honestly, given that people like PZ and Ophelia have already shit on the very idea of discussion and seeing the Almost Diamonds comments by people like LeftSidePositive, I have no actual hope of any "coming together" on a large scale. I think my point in joining the discussions is just to present for the audience who will be reading what one single person thinks about the subjects and the rhetoric that's been lobbed back and forth and to try and dispel some of the myths and strawmen arguments lobbed at people who have been critical of certain bloggers and groups or the attempt to tie certain political dogmas to scientific inquiry or to non-belief in divine entities. Especially in the last couple weeks with this attempt I've seen from some to build a narrative that anyone who has criticized FTB or A+ is some fanatical far-right-wing misogynist or that anyone who criticizes certain elements of modern 3rd wave/radical feminist hypotheses is somehow anti-women's rights and equality.

[Pitchguest]

Interesting Twitter convo re: cunt, etc.

With the usual bit of racism thrown in for good measure:)

These people are the most racist I have ever come across and I live in an area with 50% non-whites. What a surprise that their bigoted dogma allows that. It's a complete scam.

I have noticed that before. Most of them move to white enclaves (cough, MN) and then complain about lack of brown peeps.

[youtube]MZcWi6wEbG0[/youtube]

[Tigzy]

So Melody and her Cabbage Patch Doll ( :lol: :lol: :lol: ) don't cook? WTF??

And this is someone who, presumably, has the gall to lecture others on 'privilege'.

I guess they must eat out at restaurants, get take-out or, if they're feeling really adventurous, pop a ready-meal in the microwave. Might explain Mel's size - as well as the illnesses she frequently complains about.

Seriously, if Melody's looking to get healthier, regularly cooking for herself is one of the best things she can do. Starting with the base ingredients from scratch will cut out a lot of the hidden fats and sugar she's liable to get from take-out, processed meals and certain restaurant fare (especially if it's a chain restaurant). If she can get her meats and vegetables as fresh as possible, then all the better.

Damn, she is one strange lady.

[Pepsi]

It's not different. Surely people here have built up a rep in their eyes. The point of goading people into giving names is to take personal information that has nothing to do with knowing what we think or how we've been behaving, right? If they ride this train Zvan is providing, then it's no different from the pit's asking guests to put their usual pseudonym in. NOT going to work, Zvan. Nice try. They don't care about usernames you've been using, clearly, they want your personal life.

[Pitchguest]

I have a question for those that say "cunt" is sexist because it uses the female genitalia as a curse word and thus implies it's a bad thing: what about "dick"? "Prick"? "Cock"? Are these not slang for the penis used as curse words and thus make the implication it's a bad thing as well? What about "fuck" or "fucking"? "Fuck" is a slur, the worst slur, you can't say "fuck" on television. Isn't "fucking" also a good thing? Aren't "cunts" and "dicks"?

Is it sexist when one of the number one rules on internet etiquette is called "Don't be a dick"? Is it sexist when it's acceptable to call someone a "dick" but not a "pussy" or a "cunt" in the context that either of these "slurs" imply the genitalia it describes is a Bad Thing? And on the bigger question, is it right if you defend its use by saying "dick" wasn't used to oppress an entire gender? (Historically "cunt" wasn't [nor is it] used to oppress an entire gender. Look it up.)

[Apples]

LeftSidePositive offering some measured criticism of Nugent and the 'Pit over at A+:

I don't think that Michael's issue is an overabundance of charity, I think it is willful ignorance on his part. He has all the available evidence of how they have been treating us, he knows that they have been viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement, and he is falling for an abuser being charming to everyone except zir victim.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 376#p76716

Amazing how quickly the creepy clown narrative ramps up: "Viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement."

One might be inclined to ask for links or citations that exemplify this, as Wonderist did over at Svan's today. Of course, you're liable to get Rorschach's reply:

"If you want links or quotes, there’s this thing called the internet. Feel free to use it."

Funny how that works.

[Lsuoma]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

Network problem, likely way beyond your control unless you're running your own network and mail servers at home, in which case this would likely not be Greek to you.

[clownshoe]

PZ is one of those bullies.

Considering the power imbalance, indeed.

[Apples]

I have a question for those that say "cunt" is sexist because it uses the female genitalia as a curse word and thus implies it's a bad thing: what about "dick"? "Prick"? "Cock"? Are these not slang for the penis used as curse words and thus make the implication it's a bad thing as well? What about "fuck" or "fucking"? "Fuck" is a slur, the worst slur, you can't say "fuck" on television. Isn't "fucking" also a good thing? Aren't "cunts" and "dicks"?

Is it sexist when one of the number one rules on internet etiquette is called "Don't be a dick"? Is it sexist when it's acceptable to call someone a "dick" but not a "pussy" or a "cunt" in the context that either of these "slurs" imply the genitalia it describes is a Bad Thing? And on the bigger question, is it right if you defend its use by saying "dick" wasn't used to oppress an entire gender? (Historically "cunt" wasn't [nor is it] used to oppress an entire gender. Look it up.)

Nahhh, don't bother looking it up. Just listen to Melody and LeftSidePositive. All women are marginalized because of Patriarchy, in America people have made women feel bad by calling them cunts, therefore it is an "oppressive epithet." Since men are privileged, "dick" is not oppressive. Simples.

[JackSkeptic]

LeftSidePositive offering some measured criticism of Nugent and the 'Pit over at A+:

I don't think that Michael's issue is an overabundance of charity, I think it is willful ignorance on his part. He has all the available evidence of how they have been treating us, he knows that they have been viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement, and he is falling for an abuser being charming to everyone except zir victim.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 376#p76716

Amazing how quickly the creepy clown narrative ramps up: "Viciously harassing marginalized people in the movement."

One might be inclined to ask for links or citations that exemplify this, as Wonderist did over at Svan's today. Of course, you're liable to get Rorschach's reply:

"If you want links or quotes, there’s this thing called the internet. Feel free to use it."

Funny how that works.

It's so funny how they project their biases onto it without realising. They post like those conspiracy theory people where everything is not what it says and it's smothered in glaring multi coloured fonts.

Anyway it's not for people like that. Waste of time. As said earlier it's about informing people who have a genuine interest in considering what the truth is.

[Metalogic42]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ools-here/

Jeez, what a depressing bunch.

"I have never made an April Fool’s joke in my life, and this certainly isn’t one."

"I am glad to share this sentiment with you, PZ. I hate april-fools-gotcha jokes."

"I never could work out why April Fools day was such a big thing. It struck me too much as a bullying tactic. I’m glad to say I’ve never gone there."

"Never had the slightest use for April 1st idiocy."

"I hate April Fools’ Day. It’s a day for taking advantage of other people’s trust in order to make them feel stupid for your own sadistic amusement. No thanks."

"Thank you! Fuck I hate april fools."

"fuck this stupid day"

[Tigzy]

From what I've been able to glean, 'cunt' is bad because some American women on the internet think it's a slur against women in general. I'm not quite sure why these American women get to decide what women worldwide should consider a slur - but I'm pretty sure that cultural imperialism has nothing whatsoever to do with it, of course.

SUCOTI syndrome, I call it - Someone Uttered Cunt On The Internet. Oh noes!!!

[nippletwister]

Is anyone else skeptical of PZ's claim that he was threatened with a rape accusation? I need more details such as who they were to him. Maybe he's just trying to put himself on Thibeault's level because of what he said about the person posting on his blog. Neither of them really act someone who was threatened first hand with a false rape accusation, especially Jason. If he only brought it up in a situation that would give him "Look at me! I was accused and I still support assuming a female is telling the truth!" points, I'll give his claim a second thought too. That, combined with how he thinks and acts on the subject of false rape accusations, would make him even more likely than PZ to be bullshitting. What sort of person is accused of it themselves and is still chill on the subject, going "Naw. That doesn't really happen. It's an MRA trope that MRAs are deliberately pushing with ill intent. It can't be due to people actually being accused of rapes they never did."

I have a hazy recollection of PZ writing something along those lines on Pharyngula in the distant past, pre-elevatorgate (PE).
In those days such a statement would not have been anything out of the ordinary - a simple data point regarding a rare instance of false accusation (the inference that the accusation was false coming from the fact that: A, No indictment occurred, and, B, someone who actually did commit a rape is probably unlikely to bring up the incident in conversation without very good reason.
I am certainly not a fan of the kind of presumtive dismissal of rape accusitions as being a priori false, that is becoming common in MRA activism.
In response to Sacha's question about evidence for the levels of false claims compared to unreported rapes, I think it is reasonable to use anonymous surveys and police data to try to get a handle on this. It is a difficult question and probably impossible to answer completely correctly but it should be possible to get some kind of generalized figure for the prevalence of each type of incident.
What was surprising for me is that both Lousy and Peezus have admitted to being falsely accused. As I said, I'm taking their word for it (and it almost goes without saying that they would not afford me the same assumption, it would be "Rapist!" - as Peezus proved with his kneejerk accusation regarding Ed Clint)
Perhaps this is just a statistical blip, but doesn't it strike anyone else as weird, that despite claims that false accusations of rape are so rare, two prominent FTB male feminists have been falsely accused?
I've never been accused of rape. I don't even know anyone who's ever been accused of rape. Perhaps it's something that men tend to keep quiet about,for valid reasons; someone may maliciously claim the accusation was not in fact false.
The reason why the whole situation is bizarre to me is that Lousy and Peezus are inadvertently providing evidence that false accusations are more prevalent than I previously assumed!

Anecdote.....I know three rape victims, one of them male. All of them were raped as adolescents, by molester relatives or neighbors. I also know one person who was falsely accused of rape, and another who was almost falsely accused, but the would be accuser decided to not "revoke consent" after the fact.

My own experiences, and the obvious manipulation of crime stats that I see done by supposedly pro-women orgs, tells me that the real story is quite likely different than the propaganda we see all the time. I have no idea what the real numbers are, and when it comes to non-reporting and false accusations, it is very hard to get any numbers at all, much less reliable numbers. But when I see feminist orgs claim that "false rape accusations never happen", or even claims that it is a tiny, rare, ignorable phenomenon, I know I can't trust them at all. My own experience simply doesn't match up, not even close.

Also anecdotal, I have never knowingly met a single victim of rape who didn't report the crime. All of the rape victims I know reported AND had successful prosecutions in their cases.
Of course, if I want to get along with internet feminists, I would have to assume that large numbers of my female friends have been raped as adults, but decided to never tell anyone, and somehow had more fear of reporting the crime than scared, impressionable kids did.

I see similar patterns of propaganda regarding domestic abuse, but at least there, there are some sources of data available, if you look for the ones that include male victims/female perps.

[Steersman]

<snip>

Jack: I've posted several responses to the opening statements and have received an e-mail response from the Moderation Team on one of them. I just responded by e-mail and just got back this error message:

The following message to <REDACTED> was undeliverable.
The reason for the problem:
5.1.2 - Bad destination host 'DNS Hard Error looking up REDACTED (MX): NXDomain'

A problem on my end or something with e-mail addresses for the moderators? I'll probably pass this along to Michael as well, but I wonder, could you maybe look into it as well? Thanks.

Network problem, likely way beyond your control unless you're running your own network and mail servers at home, in which case this would likely not be Greek to you.

Thanks. But not running my own network, although it’s not totally Greek to me.

And thanks for removing the addresses ….

[Apples]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ools-here/

Jeez, what a depressing bunch.

"I have never made an April Fool’s joke in my life, and this certainly isn’t one."

"I am glad to share this sentiment with you, PZ. I hate april-fools-gotcha jokes."

"I never could work out why April Fools day was such a big thing. It struck me too much as a bullying tactic. I’m glad to say I’ve never gone there."

"Never had the slightest use for April 1st idiocy."

"I hate April Fools’ Day. It’s a day for taking advantage of other people’s trust in order to make them feel stupid for your own sadistic amusement. No thanks."

"Thank you! Fuck I hate april fools."

"fuck this stupid day"

April Fool's jokes are vicious harassment and totes oppressive to people who are marginalized by their incredible narcissism and humorlessness.

[bovarchist]

But what will happen to Nerd of Redhead when Pharyngula is forced to shut down? Is there such a thing as a retirement home for worthless orphaned bots?

Of course. Didn't you see A.I. ?

[cunt]

It's not different. Surely people here have built up a rep in their eyes. The point of goading people into giving names is to take personal information that has nothing to do with knowing what we think or how we've been behaving, right? If they ride this train Zvan is providing, then it's no different from the pit's asking guests to put their usual pseudonym in. NOT going to work, Zvan. Nice try. They don't care about usernames you've been using, clearly, they want your personal life.

It's just a cheap little political trick they've found out about. The slymepit posters (in common with just about every forum out there) don't usually post under their real names (apart from the ones that do) because really they're harassing the FTB bloggers, and well.. how do you know they're harassing the FTB bloggers? They're not posting under their real names!! Obvious, isn't it.

The FTB commenters also use pseudonyms because, er, look over there.

[JackSkeptic]

I have a question for those that say "cunt" is sexist because it uses the female genitalia as a curse word and thus implies it's a bad thing: what about "dick"? "Prick"? "Cock"? Are these not slang for the penis used as curse words and thus make the implication it's a bad thing as well? What about "fuck" or "fucking"? "Fuck" is a slur, the worst slur, you can't say "fuck" on television. Isn't "fucking" also a good thing? Aren't "cunts" and "dicks"?

Is it sexist when one of the number one rules on internet etiquette is called "Don't be a dick"? Is it sexist when it's acceptable to call someone a "dick" but not a "pussy" or a "cunt" in the context that either of these "slurs" imply the genitalia it describes is a Bad Thing? And on the bigger question, is it right if you defend its use by saying "dick" wasn't used to oppress an entire gender? (Historically "cunt" wasn't [nor is it] used to oppress an entire gender. Look it up.)

Nahhh, don't bother looking it up. Just listen to Melody and LeftSidePositive. All women are marginalized because of Patriarchy, in America people have made women feel bad by calling them cunts, therefore it is an "oppressive epithet." Since men are privileged, "dick" is not oppressive. Simples.

As they said anyone can use it except a white male. Racism and sexism in two words, impressive. Oh and as I happen to be born the UK I'm a 'colonialist' (in reference to Minchin I assume) So I am worth even less. That's hilarious coming from someone in the US and of course complete rubbish no matter where you are from. It's like calling all Germans Nazis just because. It's so ignorant and naive. Like little kids playing politics and getting it all wrong.

How do these people get into any position of influence without being laughed out of the room?

[Pepsi]

How have they been treated? Viciously harassed, huh? They always have to include that the pit sometimes goes where it isn't wanted. They can't say they're just being talked to viciously or talked about in a vicious manner because they know they are worse with the sort of things they say, epecially true of Pharyngula, where being as vicious as a knife is encouraged. They never own up to how they treat people here, saying wild, unwarranted things about their character and trying to be as mean as possible in telling people to fuck off, that they are shit that shouldn't be the planet, or awful people who are marginalizing them. Who has the power to do that here? I am very tired of them acting as if the pit is more vicious or conniving. The most vicious thing about the pit is that they aren't afraid to get under their skin by pointing out inconsisties in their little self narrations and other signs of dissonance. Deserved criticism.

Differentiating between cunt and dick, prick, cock as gendered insults implying a body part is bad is sexist in itself. They care about the fragile women and not men. There isnt anything to care about though. None of these words are used to call someone a body part. It simply wouldnt work, unless the user thinks dicks are gross or cunts are gross. In that case, their loss thinking certain body parts are gross, but that still isn't sexist. sexism has to target a sex itself. If one thinks breasts, vaginas, or penises are gross, they think they're gross on intersexed people as well, or hermaphrodites. The only thing that would be wrong is talking to someone about how disgusting you think their body is. They can't help what they're born with.

[cunt]

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... 00x707.jpg
'FUCK THE POPE'

Yeah, well actually, living in the toilets is a real time-saver. Your concern is noted, though.

[Pepsi]

Why white males? I don't understand how being black allows you to oppress women with your mean old gendered words. Nor how being a woman excuses it. Racist and sexist, agreed.