Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[nippletwister]

About rape accusations and the number of legitimate rape victims who avoid reporting their assaults: I wonder if part of the problem is our western attitude that talking about sex is somehow gross and icky, to the point where sex ed is being restricted to abstinence only in many areas and large numbers of children are being indoctrinated from pre-puberty to avoid discussion of any subjects involving sexual behavior.

If we could increase education on not only the "birds and the bees" aspects but also topics like the consequences of sexual behavior, including what constitutes forced sex, discussion of the devastating effects of rape and assault on both male and female victims, and education on how to avoid situations that would put one at risk of assault or false accusation, I think we could really make an impact that improves the situation for everyone in the coming generations far more than the back and forth we currently are having. Perhaps this is all some high and lofty idealism, I don't know, but I've always thought that education and knowledge are the best ways to solve societal issues.

I couldn't agree more. It's plainly obvious that greater education equals more informed decisions and better outcomes on average. And it is religion and leftover religious programming that is mainly responsible for our shyness and anxiety regarding sexual matters.

The online atheist community has been on the right track with these subjects for years.....but such basic activism doesn't necessarily result in a boost for egomaniac bloggers....much better to create a huge controversy within the group through dishonest tactics, then you can fight for women AND call the shots!

[Lost Moose]

Shit, look at me: I'm so fucking right wing I seriously considered voting for Jill Stein last November.

I did!!

2012_Ballot_Cheat.JPG

(91.13 KiB) Downloaded 328 times

[Steersman]

As Crommie would say - "Required Reading"

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... agreement/
http://www.freezepage.com/1364665136PVDZYFHZEK

Posting IPs and ISPs: nice work, you nasty piece of shit, Thimbledick. Stay classy, cunt!

And if it is manifestly obvious that the source of the charge is an obvious and malicious troll? Seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable response. Although given the prevalence of “anonymous proxies” and the like – if that is the correct term – it seems a rather pointless exercise. But one might argue that going that far to protect one’s anonymity is further evidence that one’s motivations and credibility are likely to be less than exemplary ….

[Aneris]

[...]

No I understood that, but it's relevant if it's coming from a church because it makes it fairly obvious (to a reasonable observer) that it's coming from someone who is hostile to atheists in general, not from any regular or known poster at SP, and not a "friend" of the 'Pit in any rational sense. Anyway, it is what it is.

Yeah, I think that the faithful, especially subscribers to religions, denominations or beliefs that are especially discriminatory against women are much more likely candidates for harassment of public atheist women. They actually do perceive women as lesser and weaker, thus it seems reasonable to assume that they then target them more often and in ways that are more hurtful.

[Apples]

Stephanie Svan has posted at Thibby's:

It’s very sweet. The reaction to this post in the pit has been great indignation that someone would ever try to smear a fellow human being this way. The immediate response was, “Unholy fuck! Whoever did that is a complete and utter asshole!”

Oh, wait. My bad. That was the reaction from various people to Rebecca tweeting a link to the post.

What happened in the pit is that someone said they couldn’t understand the post. Someone else got indignant that Jason would post the IP. Someone else said that the commenter wasn’t an atheist because when they looked up the IP and zoomed in, they found a church at that intersection (as opposed to the plumbing business you find using this IP-lookup service). Someone else reassured everyone that no actual responsibility accrued to the pit because everyone there is an individual. They didn’t assign any responsibility to the person who was trying to use Jason as a talking point there, of course.

Um .... we didn't "assign any responsibility" to Strawkins for what? For mentioning something that Jason had published that was relevant to the subject at hand that may have been picked up by some yahoo troll in Alabama? Fuck off, Stephanie.

As for "great indignation that someone would ever try to smear a fellow human being this way" -- the whole fucking point of the conversation here was that you have to use skepticism in order to tell the difference between smears and the truth (as opposed to believing things simply because they are said by a woman because feminism and rape culture) -- because everyone with a pulse knows smears are pretty fucking bad -- something that you and your buddies might consider keeping in mind the next time you accuse someone of being a "harasser" or a misogynist.

What you really hoped -- because you are at least as ruthless as anyone who has ever posted at the 'Pit -- is that you'd find someone celebrating the troll's accusation or suggesting it was true. Not finding that, you were forced to pretend it's the 'Pit's fault people all over the world think Jason is a douche. Most laughably stupid is the notion that you'd expect people here to say "oh, poor Jason - he had to look at his moderation queue and deal with a nasty troll" after the hostile post he wrote.

But thank you Stephanie (and Jason) -- by "monitoring and harassing" the 'Pit this way you prove just how self-serving and dishonest your (and Ophelia's) conception of "harassment" really is and just how willing you are to smear people you don't like. Good luck in the coming discussions, Steffy -- you're going to need it.

[Dick Strawkins]

As Crommie would say - "Required Reading"

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... agreement/
http://www.freezepage.com/1364665136PVDZYFHZEK

Posting IPs and ISPs: nice work, you nasty piece of shit, Thimbledick. Stay classy, cunt!

Lousy, we know you're reading here so take some free advice.
If you plan to make a firm denial of something and to claim it is all untrue, it's probably not the best of ideas to begin with a lie:

Dick Strawkins was railing on about how horrible PZ Myers is for saying that women who bring forward rape accusations should actually be taken seriously

Thats completely untrue.
I actually said the opposite.
My point was that Peezus' echo of the Shakesville radfem stance on rape accusations can be problematic in the rare instance of a false rape accusation.
I think every rape accusation should be taken seriously - especially by the police.
By the way, Canucks implication that I had anything to do with the comment from the individual he doxxed is false. Lsuoma can confirm that the IP address that Canuck revealed is nowhere near my location.
As for the reason I had the screencap of Canucks admission, ever so suspiciously, at hand?
I didn't!
I just remembered that someone else had posted that particular screenshot on the slymepit when the subject of Lousy's rape accusation was discussed previously. Skeptickle's remark about Peezus' talk reminded me of the subject and I simply reposted the earlier screencapture to illustrate a throwaway line about the implications of following a strict radfem line on rape accusations.
By the way, I had no idea that PZ himself had been accused of rape in the past!

Quite honestly, this is getting rather bizarre!
:popcorn:

[Submariner]

Stephanie Svan has posted at Thibby's:

Wow that was fast. It's almost like she's admitting that she reads the forum here....

Hi Steffie! :D

[John Greg]

Amidst all this rapey talk, I just wanted to say:

Skep tickle is a tease. A nasty, nasty tease.

There.

Phew.

Got that off my chest.

Floosh!

[mikelf]

No, that IP really tracks back to a Baptist Church http://iplocation.truevue.org/98.89.26.128.html
He needs to quit blaming atheists for all his woes

We might want some other people in the USA to check if that geolocator service gives an accurate reading of their IP though.

I say this because when I used it (and 3 different services) none of them were accurate. None of them were actually closer than 30 kilometers to my actual address.

It isn't accurate. When I put in my IP it brought up a location in front of a dead-end bar about 7 miles from my house.

[John Greg]

Jason Toiletbowl asks (http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... agreement/):

Why don’t these assholes try finding a thing that I’ve said about feminism, about rape, about anything else, and actually arguing against the points presented, instead of trying to defame my character in order to fragment FtB and poison the well against women speaking up about harassment? Why is the idea of more than one feminist leader posting to a blog network so scary to them that they have to attack a blogger on said network by attacking another blogger on said network and trying to play the one against the other?

One answer to your questions is that much of the online community, outside of FfTB / Skepchick / A+, is so damned sick and tired of you, PeeZus, Laden, Zvan, et al, continuous angry, raging, spewingly deceitful and mendacious campaign to defame, libel, and condemn anyone who disagrees with you, that the gloves are, so to speak, now off.

You, PeeZus, et al, have brought this shit storm down on your own heads. Accept your fucking responsibility, like the adult you claim to be, and understand, for once, that almost all of the hostile actions brought against you, PeeZus, et al, is in reaction to your vile attacks on others. You pissed in your own well; now suck it up, child, suck it up.

And PeeZus, you deceitful bag of rotting rutabagas, just go fuck off, you lying piece of unutterable filth.

[Guest]

It's quite strange that there are many pictures on #aacon13 consider American Atheists' conference policy stipulates that cell phones and electronic devices be turned off during conference sessions.

Please respect the sessions and the speakers. Turn off cell phones and other electronic devices, take conversations and noisy children outside the session room, and move to the center of your row to make room for other attendees.

Ridiculous policies are ridiculous. I suppose they'll only be enforced when people feel like it, huh?

but how are you supposed to immediately shame people on twitter without electronic devices, which is doing nothing absolutely nothing wrong, even if it makes all your seriously-thought-out-and-demanded-conference-policies a pointless waste of time?

[Steersman]

Still in moderation on Jason’s site – and likely to so forever given the egregious dishonesty of many in that neck of the (benighted) woods, but FWIW:

Jason said:

And then this person from Alabama wandered over to my blog by searching for “lousy canuck” from their Apple iPad ….

Bit of a stretch, is it not, to apparently argue that the entire “Pit” is somehow responsible for the actions of that “person from Alabama”? Particularly given, apparently, that proxies can make such claims rather questionable at best.

And, considering that one of the definitions of “accept” – as in “accept the personal testimony of women’s experiences” – is “to recognize as true”, one might reasonably argue that that assertion of Myers’ is rather problematic to say the least – which was, if I’m not mistaken, the purport of Strawkins’ comment.

But, in passing, since you’ve obviously been reading the Pit – “oh, the horror” – one might suggest you be a little more circumspect about those activities – otherwise PZ will be dungeonizing you [and Zvan] too for the same “crime” ….

Kind of reminds me of the Reign of Terror – if the definition of “enemies of the revolution” is rather subjective and idiosyncratic then the process tends to get out of hand rather quickly ….

[Apples]

So, basically, he lied his fat arse off knowing that a mention of photoshop would conjure up some bizarre images in the audiences mind. They clapped like seals, and went off to browse the "me wuv darwin" t-shirts.

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted.

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k49 ... bd-285.gif

[Tigzy]

So, basically, he lied his fat arse off knowing that a mention of photoshop would conjure up some bizarre images in the audiences mind. They clapped like seals, and went off to browse the "me wuv darwin" t-shirts.

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted.

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k49 ... bd-285.gif

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

[Apples]

No, that IP really tracks back to a Baptist Church http://iplocation.truevue.org/98.89.26.128.html
He needs to quit blaming atheists for all his woes

We might want some other people in the USA to check if that geolocator service gives an accurate reading of their IP though.

I say this because when I used it (and 3 different services) none of them were accurate. None of them were actually closer than 30 kilometers to my actual address.

It isn't accurate. When I put in my IP it brought up a location in front of a dead-end bar about 7 miles from my house.

:lol:

[Dick Strawkins]

So, basically, he lied his fat arse off knowing that a mention of photoshop would conjure up some bizarre images in the audiences mind. They clapped like seals, and went off to browse the "me wuv darwin" t-shirts.

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted.

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k49 ... abd-285.gi

I haven't seen any porn photoshops here at the slymepit but I think some troll posted something like that in the middle of the night on Nugent's blog.
So it's someone did something bad somewhere - therefore the slymepit is to blame!

[Apples]

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

http://softnessinkenya.files.wordpress. ... on-sex.jpg

[Humphrey_Hedgehog]

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

http://softnessinkenya.files.wordpress. ... on-sex.jpg

Well, I recognise PZ on the receiving end (as per) but are we sure that isn't RW on top? Technically that would make it 'not gay' (just a bit weird).

[Reap]

No, that IP really tracks back to a Baptist Church http://iplocation.truevue.org/98.89.26.128.html
He needs to quit blaming atheists for all his woes

If you're absolutely sure of that, it might be worth pointing out in the comments.

You're comparing... pardon the pun apples with oranges. The IP address can't be that of the Slymepit. The point is that none of us conspired to do anything here, therefore it's already dubious to lay the blame at our door. It's an open forum, where everyone can read. Lsuoma alone can check out if the IP address matches with a regular user here. In this case, they could talk about it and solve it in a reasonable kind of way. But even in this instance, the actions of one user do not carry over to a forum where the user happens to have an account.

Gee thanks for explaining all that to me. I was worried I was going to go through my life a dolt and never really understand what my own point was and you saved me THANKS! a million times THANKS!
Here is what I was thinking..... Jason claims it was someone from the pit. Anyone with a bit of sense already knows Jason has no idea what the fuck he is talking about ( his blog is sponsored by Pinocchio after all) but there are some morons (like I was before you helped, thanks again) are gonna buy into his BS. So I looked up the IP and it so happens (see link) that it leads right to a Baptist Church. That not only shows Jason is unfairly pointing at the pit but more than likely it isn't even an atheist. There has been much assumption made that all the 'harassment' they get is from other atheists. Even if you can get other results for the IP location there is still no way he can say it was any one person or member or anything else. The church thing is just ironic IMO but what the hell do I know? Until you told me what I meant I was lost. I did manage to tweet jason with the info. It's always fun to see if he can reach a new level of rationalization. I'm betting yes.

[Tigzy]

Well, I recognise PZ on the receiving end (as per) but are we sure that isn't RW on top? Technically that would make it 'not gay' (just a bit weird).

RW had Peezee pegged long ago. That's old news. :rimshot:

[Guest]

I have discovered a factual error in my long post above.

I was seated, not standing, when I asked about the Nugent project. (I had stood for the Pfizer fact-check comment, and I stood while speaking 1 on 1 with PZ after Q&A). So when I wrote above, "I stood up & said..." that was erroneous.

My apologies for having misled any readers about that part.

YOU HORRIBLE PERSON I CANT TRUST ANYTHING YOU SAY EVER AGAIN

[Bhurzum]

Well, I recognise PZ on the receiving end (as per) but are we sure that isn't RW on top? Technically that would make it 'not gay' (just a bit weird).

RW with a strap-on "doing" old flubber-guts?

http://www.actualhumanbeings.com/wp-con ... yelids.jpg

Yup, the mental imagery is going to haunt me for quite some time...

[Steersman]

Well, I recognise PZ on the receiving end (as per) but are we sure that isn't RW on top? Technically that would make it 'not gay' (just a bit weird).

RW had Peezee pegged long ago. That's old news. :rimshot:

:-)

Seems that definition hasn’t yet made it into standard dictionaries yet, but I can well believe that that phrase of yours might be immortalized as an example once it does …. ;-)

[16bitheretic]

Lousy Canuck:

Why don’t these assholes try finding a thing that I’ve said about feminism, about rape, about anything else, and actually arguing against the points presented, instead of trying to defame my character in order to fragment FtB and poison the well against women speaking up about harassment? Why is the idea of more than one feminist leader posting to a blog network so scary to them that they have to attack a blogger on said network by attacking another blogger on said network and trying to play the one against the other?

Oh yes, you get criticized or someone quoting you in a non-flattering fashion is totally the time for you to just randomly toss out the "why do you hate women" meme or one of it's variants.

Because that totally doesn't come across as you using women as pawns to make yourself look good, like the noble protector who is under attack when he defends us fragile things, and that by proxy any criticism aimed your way is criticism aimed at all the possessors of the XX chromosone. Please bear the weight that us poor womenfolk cannot Jason :roll:

Ugh, I'm soooo sick of this shit. I've ranted about this sort of thing before, but I'm tired of people who are more about self promotion and/or preservation trying to parade as noble defenders of women while portraying any criticism that they personally receive as misogyny or promotion of harassment. It's the rhetorical equivalent of using women as a human shield to deflect criticizing opinions, and it's just as demeaning IMO as someone promoting a genuinely misogynist viewpoint. This sort of thing, along with outrage over dongle jokes or how Princess Zelda is used in a videogame from 15 years ago is making instances of real oppression of women in the world go unnoticed because the attention is being diverted to noisy non-issues and frivolous complaints that make women's equality movements into a running joke.

But I guess if women are nothing more than a human shield to block internet criticisms to you and your blogging friends, then whatever I have to say is irrelevant.

[Guest]

As Crommie would say - "Required Reading"

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... agreement/
http://www.freezepage.com/1364665136PVDZYFHZEK

Posting IPs and ISPs: nice work, you nasty piece of shit, Thimbledick. Stay classy, cunt!

Jason is a reasonable and responsible person. He read the allegation and looked up the IP address. Upon realizing that it could be a regular user at the Slymepit, he reached out to its admin, Lsuoma, to test his hypothesis and to ask which user it was, so the matter could be handled in a civil and adult kind of way. But Jason is neither reasonable nor responsible nor acting like an adult person, so he went out to falsely accuse at least 609 users. There is no post whatsoever indicating that "we" conspire against him, so it is quite eccentric of him to accuse this place for being responsible for it. But it's as it is. I guess we have to deal with people who are reality-challenged.

Now that he confessed to reading here, he is eligible for a ban at FTBlogs. Jason, the possible Rapist could team up with Justin, the alleged rape-enabler and become the Dynamic Duo Justin & Jason the Patriarchy Illusionists.

No, that IP really tracks back to a Baptist Church http://iplocation.truevue.org/98.89.26.128.html
He needs to quit blaming atheists for all his woes

but that would mean giving up his demon-haunted world

[Apples]

incisive things

Excellent post - you'll be needed at the Great Debate.

[welch]

As Crommie would say - "Required Reading"

http://freethoughtblogs.com/lousycanuck ... agreement/
http://www.freezepage.com/1364665136PVDZYFHZEK

Honestly I can't even follow this. He's mad about something Dick Strawkins said here or something. Because he's a loser. I don't know.

PZ's got the first comment (the "she" at the beginning is apparently Skep Tickle):

Wait…she listened, & all she took from it was 1 or 2 sentences which she then misinterprets to mean I’m forever denying the possibility that a woman might make a false accusation? Nonsense. I’ve been threatened with a false rape accusation, one that could have totally destroyed my career.

I took it very seriously and moved quickly to provide evidence that it was false.

But of course we have to accept the personal testimony of women’s experiences. In that case, it would have been totally injust to simply say, “oh, she’s a woman, therefore she’s lying”. Most rape accusations are not false, so a priori dismissals are inappropriate, and if that woman had gone to the authorities (she didn’t, because I immediately brought in witnesses to make her effort futile) I would sure as hell hope they’d treat both of our positions with equal seriousness.

http://www.freezepage.com/1364665946DNIDFZFDAF

I find it interesting that both of those bastions of feminist behavior have been 'falsely' accused of rape.

[Steersman]

No, that IP really tracks back to a Baptist Church http://iplocation.truevue.org/98.89.26.128.html
He needs to quit blaming atheists for all his woes

If you're absolutely sure of that, it might be worth pointing out in the comments.

You're comparing... pardon the pun apples with oranges. The IP address can't be that of the Slymepit. The point is that none of us conspired to do anything here, therefore it's already dubious to lay the blame at our door. It's an open forum, where everyone can read. Lsuoma alone can check out if the IP address matches with a regular user here. In this case, they could talk about it and solve it in a reasonable kind of way. But even in this instance, the actions of one user do not carry over to a forum where the user happens to have an account.

<snip>

So I looked up the IP and it so happens (see link) that it leads right to a Baptist Church. That not only shows Jason is unfairly pointing at the pit but more than likely it isn't even an atheist.

<snip>

How does that follow? Considering that several of those IP locators show different locations for the same IP address, I can’t see that it “shows” anything of the sort. It only might do that if IP addresses were 100% accurate and Lsuoma divulged all of the IP addresses for every registered user here.

In addition “isn’t likely an atheist” is again a very long stretch, at least on that basis. If there’s no credibility to the IP address then it “shows” dick-all. Assuming that Jason’s description of events – posting of Strawkins’ comment then the comment on Jason’s blog and there is some causal connection – is half-ways accurate then assuming that that the bulk of the people reading and commenting here are atheists then I would say that the probability is quite good that that commenter on Jason’s blog was in fact an atheist. There is, of course, some possibility that it was some religious fundamentalist just out to stir up some shit ….

[Guest]

No, that IP really tracks back to a Baptist Church http://iplocation.truevue.org/98.89.26.128.html
He needs to quit blaming atheists for all his woes

We might want some other people in the USA to check if that geolocator service gives an accurate reading of their IP though.

I say this because when I used it (and 3 different services) none of them were accurate. None of them were actually closer than 30 kilometers to my actual address.

It isn't accurate. When I put in my IP it brought up a location in front of a dead-end bar about 7 miles from my house.

it isn't if you're at a residence where your ip is reassigned over time

it tends to be moreso if it points to a business that is likely to have a static ip address which a church certainly might

not overridingly accurate, of course, but more context to judge from

[Guest]

I find it interesting that both of those bastions of feminist behavior have been 'falsely' accused of rape.

i see what you did there

[AndrewV69]

So, basically, he lied his fat arse off knowing that a mention of photoshop would conjure up some bizarre images in the audiences mind. They clapped like seals, and went off to browse the "me wuv darwin" t-shirts.

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted.

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k49 ... bd-285.gif

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

[welch]

Stephanie Svan has posted at Thibby's:

It’s very sweet. The reaction to this post in the pit has been great indignation that someone would ever try to smear a fellow human being this way. The immediate response was, “Unholy fuck! Whoever did that is a complete and utter asshole!”

Oh, wait. My bad. That was the reaction from various people to Rebecca tweeting a link to the post.

What happened in the pit is that someone said they couldn’t understand the post. Someone else got indignant that Jason would post the IP. Someone else said that the commenter wasn’t an atheist because when they looked up the IP and zoomed in, they found a church at that intersection (as opposed to the plumbing business you find using this IP-lookup service). Someone else reassured everyone that no actual responsibility accrued to the pit because everyone there is an individual. They didn’t assign any responsibility to the person who was trying to use Jason as a talking point there, of course.

Um .... we didn't "assign any responsibility" to Strawkins for what? For mentioning something that Jason had published that was relevant to the subject at hand that may have been picked up by some yahoo troll in Alabama? Fuck off, Stephanie.

As for "great indignation that someone would ever try to smear a fellow human being this way" -- the whole fucking point of the conversation here was that you have to use skepticism in order to tell the difference between smears and the truth (as opposed to believing things simply because they are said by a woman because feminism and rape culture) -- because everyone with a pulse knows smears are pretty fucking bad -- something that you and your buddies might consider keeping in mind the next time you accuse someone of being a "harasser" or a misogynist.

What you really hoped -- because you are at least as ruthless as anyone who has ever posted at the 'Pit -- is that you'd find someone celebrating the troll's accusation or suggesting it was true. Not finding that, you were forced to pretend it's the 'Pit's fault people all over the world think Jason is a douche. Most laughably stupid is the notion that you'd expect people here to say "oh, poor Jason - he had to look at his moderation queue and deal with a nasty troll" after the hostile post he wrote.

But thank you Stephanie (and Jason) -- by "monitoring and harassing" the 'Pit this way you prove just how self-serving and dishonest your (and Ophelia's) conception of "harassment" really is and just how willing you are to smear people you don't like. Good luck in the coming discussions, Steffy -- you're going to need it.

Wonder if she finished her opening statement yet

[Steersman]

Lousy Canuck:

Why don’t these assholes try finding a thing that I’ve said about feminism, about rape, about anything else, and actually arguing against the points presented, instead of trying to defame my character in order to fragment FtB and poison the well against women speaking up about harassment? Why is the idea of more than one feminist leader posting to a blog network so scary to them that they have to attack a blogger on said network by attacking another blogger on said network and trying to play the one against the other?

Oh yes, you get criticized or someone quoting you in a non-flattering fashion is totally the time for you to just randomly toss out the "why do you hate women" meme or one of it's variants.

Because that totally doesn't come across as you using women as pawns to make yourself look good, like the noble protector who is under attack when he defends us fragile things, and that by proxy any criticism aimed your way is criticism aimed at all the possessors of the XX chromosone. Please bear the weight that us poor womenfolk cannot Jason :roll:

Ugh, I'm soooo sick of this shit. I've ranted about this sort of thing before, but I'm tired of people who are more about self promotion and/or preservation trying to parade as noble defenders of women while portraying any criticism that they personally receive as misogyny or promotion of harassment. It's the rhetorical equivalent of using women as a human shield to deflect criticizing opinions, and it's just as demeaning IMO as someone promoting a genuinely misogynist viewpoint. This sort of thing, along with outrage over dongle jokes or how Princess Zelda is used in a videogame from 15 years ago is making instances of real oppression of women in the world go unnoticed because the attention is being diverted to noisy non-issues and frivolous complaints that make women's equality movements into a running joke.

But I guess if women are nothing more than a human shield to block internet criticisms to you and your blogging friends, then whatever I have to say is irrelevant.

Unrelated to elephants? (Last common ancestor several hundred million years ago?) :-)

But good post. Really some fascinating if problematic psychology in play there. Which was interestingly typified by EBW’s observation, rather question, over DongleGate [paraphrasing], “Is it inconceivable that a woman could be wrong?”

Really sort of consistent with the demagoguery that Watson, in particular, exhibits quite frequently, the wrapping of oneself in the flag of feminism, the projection of her persona and identity onto the entire class of women, as if she, and many others, had said, in response to a personal criticism: “They can’t talk to us like that, Sisters! Onward! To the Bastille!”

[Steersman]

So, basically, he lied his fat arse off knowing that a mention of photoshop would conjure up some bizarre images in the audiences mind. They clapped like seals, and went off to browse the "me wuv darwin" t-shirts.

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted.

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k49 ... bd-285.gif

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

[welch]

So, basically, he lied his fat arse off knowing that a mention of photoshop would conjure up some bizarre images in the audiences mind. They clapped like seals, and went off to browse the "me wuv darwin" t-shirts.

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted.

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k49 ... bd-285.gif

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

I dunno. It captures the essence of the laden-svan relationship rather nicely.

[Steersman]

<snip>
*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

I dunno. It captures the essence of the laden-svan relationship rather nicely.

And how is that supposed relationship relevant to Apples’ comment?

Besides which, have you actually seen or made any case that the two relationships are in anyway analogous? Or is that just your spleen talking?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

<snip>
*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

I dunno. It captures the essence of the laden-svan relationship rather nicely.

And how is that supposed relationship relevant to Apples’ comment?

Besides which, have you actually seen or made any case that the two relationships are in anyway analogous? Or is that just your spleen talking?

How in the whole wild word would you think this is an accurate depiction of Laden/Svan? Parody, we talked about this before, right?

[JackSkeptic]

As a person that has been sexually abused and wasn't believed (I'm a man) and also falsely accused of sexual assault two decades later, I can say that both cases are horrible. In the first case, the victim is re-victimized, and in the second an innocent person is accused of a heinous act and s/h/it credibility never fully recovers, the ever luming shadow-of-doubt. I think the false accusation was the biggest injustice in my case, and it never got to court.

I understand that Amanda Marcotte may have said something to the effect that presumption of innocence should not apply to rape. Having some *coof* reGreta virus... But, this public confesion from Jason and now from Myers, leave them very vulnerable and its very brave. I think.

Yesterday I had the obvious thought 'If PMZ is falsely accused of rape is he required to plead guilty at court if there is no other evidence to support him?' According to him, yes he does.

Rape is to be taken very seriously and so is justice. In the UK it is brought up continuously as clearly the justice system is not fit for purpose. The problem is despite years of trying no better system has been found. However the treatment of victims has been considerably improved (no naming of the victim for instance and the police are very good these days handling it) but it is still an issue and will be for some time. What we do not get to do is switch the burden of proof. If anyone wants to see how that would work they only have to look at how thousands of Spanish men have been imprisoned just on the say so of women. This is often done to ensure they keep the children and obtain a big advantage in court as well as spite.

Men have female members of their family too, Mothers, Sisters, Grandmothers, Aunts, Nieces and Daughters. Such a change in the law will hurt women as well as men.

[justinvacula]

Interesting tweets from the #aacon13 hashtag:

http://i.imgur.com/MtwVzcD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/L6CtbbH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZwxzM7Z.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IMK9Lnq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/83qBGnI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/c24YsNA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dQuAeBT.jpg

[Steersman]

<snip>
*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

I dunno. It captures the essence of the laden-svan relationship rather nicely.

And how is that supposed relationship relevant to Apples’ comment?

Besides which, have you actually seen or made any case that the two relationships are in anyway analogous? Or is that just your spleen talking?

How in the whole wild [world] would you think this is an accurate depiction of Laden/Svan? Parody, we talked about this before, right?

"Parody is making a new wine that tastes like the old but has a slightly lethal effect.”

Don’t see how that makes it less of an ad hominem which, according to the Wikipedia article on the topic, works by the “halo effect”:

Thus, if you can attribute a bad trait to your opponent, others will tend to doubt the quality of their arguments, even if the bad trait is irrelevant to the arguments.

Lots to criticize Zvan and Laden over, and one might reasonably argue that Zvan’s stated friendship with Laden has somewhat corrupted her judgment in that and related circumstances, but trying to attack that relationship and thereby them, particularly in the absence of evidence, doesn’t look particularly credible or admirable to me.

[rayshul]

I can honestly say I've rarely seen any sexism or attacking based on gender coming from online atheists, and the few who did were immediately ostracized left and right by other atheists of both genders. The instances of this sort of behavior I;ve seen are incredibly rare, much rarer than the radfem atheists who want to try and place themselves as spokespeople for all secular women and who often are the worst and most intolerant critics and judges of the women they seemingly want to try and represent.

I've seen plenty of sexism since Elevatorgate strictly from the other side of the fence. ^_^

[Jan Steen]

Over on the Pharyngulag Archipelago two contrasting opinions on rape claims.

http://i.imgur.com/RjV4DXT.jpg

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-591926


“Doubting someone who says they are raped directly contributes to rape culture.” If I understand Brother Ogvorbis correctly, people who say they have been raped should not be doubted. By this standard, both the Lousy Canuck and PZ Myers would have ended up in jail, where they may well have gained first hand experience of rape culture.

Nerd of Redhead, on the other hand, thinks that someone who is thought to have been lying and bullshitting should not be believed when they claim to have been raped. Now, we now that Nerd of Redhead is a person who throws around accusations of lying and bullshitting against anyone who is not able or willing to back up their opinions with citations from the scientific literature. In other words, someone called a liar and bullshitter by the Nerd may well be a perfectly honest person who happens to have said something that is at variance with accepted dogma. If our legal system were to follow the Nerd’s insights, people who in the past have been accused of lying should be considered to be lying about a rape claim unless there is evidence to the contrary. Is the Nerd secretly a member of A Voice for Men? Or is he too extreme even for them?

The reasonable thing to do, in my opinion, is to take every rape claim extremely seriously and to investigate carefully if it is truthful or not, without assuming a priori that the claim is either true or false. That is not the same thing as doubting the claim from the start, which should not happen. Doubts may or may not arise in the course of the investigation, depending on the evidence and the competence of the investigators.

It is possible that Brother Ogvorbis has merely expressed himself clumsily, and that he meant to say that doubt should not be the initial response. In that case I agree with him.

The Nerd is just an incredibly stupid asshole, though, however you look at it. And he is lying and bullshitting when he writes: "I’ll take most folks words as is until further notice." No, most folks' OPINIONS are *FLOOSH* dismissed by the Nerd for lack of scientific EVIDENCE.

[Jan Steen]

So, basically, he lied his fat arse off knowing that a mention of photoshop would conjure up some bizarre images in the audiences mind. They clapped like seals, and went off to browse the "me wuv darwin" t-shirts.

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted.

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k49 ... bd-285.gif

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

Photoshopping PZ in gay porn?

Please, can someone think of the poor photoshoppers?

[Apples]

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

I believe Andrew was objecting to the idea of a "PZ gay porn photoshop," which AFAIK has never, ever been posted at the 'Pit. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

And the reason I reposted the silly dog-cow gif was that there was chatter, at Zvan's, I believe, in the wake of her "NSFW" post, about "sex tapes" posted at the 'Pit. Again - AFAIK - nothing of the sort has ever been done.

[Zenspace]

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p60 ... 480cdd.png

They're determined to force this duplicitous narrative of pervasive harassment from other atheists. Atheist men harassing atheist women in online forums - that's the only "context" they seem to care about. Even if it were true, it's such a ridiculous first world problem that anyone truly concerned about social justice should be embarrassed to keep obsessing over it.

"socially expensive to harass" Translation: post their photo on twitter and get them fired. Welcome to the new normal.

The return of mob justice and public lynchings. I am so proud of the progress the human race continues to demonstrate. :doh:

[Skep tickle]

...

The reasonable thing to do, in my opinion, is to take every rape claim extremely seriously and to investigate carefully if it is truthful or not, without assuming a priori that the claim is either true or false. That is not the same thing as doubting the claim from the start, which should not happen. Doubts may or may not arise in the course of the investigation, depending on the evidence and the competence of the investigators. ...

I agree. And also listening & responding to the testifier's distress, providing emotional support, separating that from the testifier's accusation and/or the subsequent investigation - is simply the humane thing to do.

The Nerd ... is lying and bullshitting when he writes: "I’ll take most folks words as is until further notice." No, most folks' OPINIONS are *FLOOSH* dismissed by the Nerd for lack of scientific EVIDENCE.

This!!!1! 1000 times!!!1!!

Although truthfully throughout each day we DO mostly take people at their word, unless there's reason to doubt them (or there could be significant consequences if they are in error).

[Lsuoma]

How does that follow? Considering that several of those IP locators show different locations for the same IP address, I can’t see that it “shows” anything of the sort. It only might do that if IP addresses were 100% accurate and Lsuoma divulged all of the IP addresses for every registered user here.

In addition “isn’t likely an atheist” is again a very long stretch, at least on that basis. If there’s no credibility to the IP address then it “shows” dick-all. Assuming that Jason’s description of events – posting of Strawkins’ comment then the comment on Jason’s blog and there is some causal connection – is half-ways accurate then assuming that that the bulk of the people reading and commenting here are atheists then I would say that the probability is quite good that that commenter on Jason’s blog was in fact an atheist. There is, of course, some possibility that it was some religious fundamentalist just out to stir up some shit ….

I don't trust IP locators that much myself.

However, JT was posting IP, ISP, location, etc., and if thinks it's unreliable, why do it? It makes him a stuoid cunt.

If he thinks it IS reliable, then he's still a cunt, but a malicious cunt (and also still stupid).

[Guestheist]

Well, if I have to chose between two evils, I'd rather contribute to "rape culture" than to "false accusations" pieces of shit at FfTB, it's a total lack of critical thinking.

[Skep tickle]

PZ photoshopped onto gay porn? I must have been absent that day. I remember him in diapers, I remember him as a pathetic tiny wanna-be superhero under the table, I remember him in the Punch & Judy show, I remember him as the Iraqi information minister, but I can't for the life of me recall any gay porn. Maybe it was the same day as the shocking NSFW Svan-Laden "sex tape" was posted. ...

Indeed. I never thought I'd see myself writing this, but...where is the gay PZ Myers porn, exactly?

*cough*

OK I will confess I was going to ask, but then I thought, "perhaps there are some things in this life that I would rather not see".

Do not do this. OK people? Please?

Quite right. As Lily Tomlin probably said, “not tasteful”. Not to mention shading over into ad hominems .... and certainly not much in the way of trenchant or relevant satire ....

Photoshopping PZ in gay porn?

Please, can someone think of the poor photoshoppers?

I see now that I should have pressed PZ for a link to support his claim. :shock:

[Submariner]

I can honestly say I've rarely seen any sexism or attacking based on gender coming from online atheists, and the few who did were immediately ostracized left and right by other atheists of both genders. The instances of this sort of behavior I;ve seen are incredibly rare, much rarer than the radfem atheists who want to try and place themselves as spokespeople for all secular women and who often are the worst and most intolerant critics and judges of the women they seemingly want to try and represent.

I've seen plenty of sexism since Elevatorgate strictly from the other side of the fence. ^_^

So you see, PeeZee, the above posts leave some of us men in a bit of a quandary. You tell us, PeeZee, to "listen to the women". When we listen women like ERV, 16bit,Rayshul, Paula Kirby, Dr. Hall etc. you tell us: no not those women.

I am confused.

[Lsuoma]

BTW, I have just got back from urgent care - I was using a mandoline to slice potatoes for a dinner party this evening, and fuck me if I didn't slice a pad of flesh about 7mm in diameter off my right thumb. Only the second time I've ever had to have detached parts of my body sewn back on. First time was a bone and skin graft about four years ago, and that was planned.

This one bled like a fucking motherfucker! Needless to say, we had to get some new potatoes on the way home, and I'm off cooking duty and on booze duty.

[Apples]

BTW, I have just got back from urgent care - I was using a mandoline to slice potatoes for a dinner party this evening, and fuck me if I didn't slice a pad of flesh about 7mm in diameter off my right thumb. Only the second time I've ever had to have detached parts of my body sewn back on. First time was a bone and skin graft about four years ago, and that was planned.

This one bled like a fucking motherfucker! Needless to say, we had to get some new potatoes on the way home, and I'm off cooking duty and on booze duty.

I expect Zvan will be along with her sympathies presently. Serves you right for trying to use a musical instrument to cut vegetables.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/archives/po ... olin01.jpg

[justinvacula]

Live with Heather Henderson and Emery Emery at 8 Eastern/5 Pacific:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bravehero/ ... -henderson

Join the live chat, call in, and listen live!

http://i.imgur.com/HEPrpOe.jpg

[Hunt]

I don't know, but i'm sure it'll involve congratulating themselves for attending an event. This is crucial.

::imagines OB bouncing up and down in her seat, vigorously applauding the "socially expensive" line::

Yes, yes, this. So much this.

Good name for a blog.

"This, so much this"

or, maybe just

"This"

[rayshul]

BTW, I have just got back from urgent care - I was using a mandoline to slice potatoes for a dinner party this evening, and fuck me if I didn't slice a pad of flesh about 7mm in diameter off my right thumb. Only the second time I've ever had to have detached parts of my body sewn back on. First time was a bone and skin graft about four years ago, and that was planned.

This one bled like a fucking motherfucker! Needless to say, we had to get some new potatoes on the way home, and I'm off cooking duty and on booze duty.

Oh I know that trick... cut off large parts of your body that need immediate medical care so you'll never be asked to help with a dinner party again... I'm wise to you...

[Aneris]

BTW, I have just got back from urgent care - I was using a mandoline to slice potatoes for a dinner party this evening, and fuck me if I didn't slice a pad of flesh about 7mm in diameter off my right thumb. Only the second time I've ever had to have detached parts of my body sewn back on. First time was a bone and skin graft about four years ago, and that was planned.

This one bled like a fucking motherfucker! Needless to say, we had to get some new potatoes on the way home, and I'm off cooking duty and on booze duty.

So you went onto a mission in secret bunkers and on the moon in Her Majesty's Secret Service and once you're back you cut yourself into the thumb? With a mandoline? Get well!

[Slither]

Ack!

Go, buy yourself a mandolin with a hand guard! And a cut-resistant glove! Your body parts will thank you!

[Lsuoma]

Just registered thissomuchthis.com

[Apples]

In celebration of the beginning of festivities tomorrow - kind of funny that the Great Atheoskeptic Smackdown of 2013 is beginning on Easter Sunday - I think this Rebecca Bradley post from a few months ago -- "Confessions of a Tone Troll; or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the CHUDS" is worth a reprise:

http://www.skepticink.com/lateraltruth/ ... the-chuds/

An excerpt:

Those involved in this bizarre behavior included about half of the Freethought bloggers, their Skepchick buds, and a shifting population of faithful commenters. Their demons – the targets chosen for pelting in the stocks – were increasingly men and women who might otherwise be regarded as allies and even heroes, including prominent atheists and skeptics. The concentration of vitriol, the insularity, the attacks on newcomers, chimp-style grooming of insiders, demonization of dissidents, and shrill adherence to a tight-lipped, zero-tolerance creed of “social justice,” were all ways to bind a community. It was, moreover, a community based not on reason and the examination of ideas, but on the knee-jerk application of a peculiar bigotry – any of us who were deemed to fall short were offered no empathy and no quarter, and attempts at self-defense or even rational discourse just compounded our douchebaggery in their eyes. The phenomenon began to look more and more like either a mass case of borderline personality disorder, or a cult. In fact, the recent spinoff into Atheism+ looks like a cult with a mass case of borderline personality disorder.

[JackSkeptic]

In celebration of the beginning of festivities tomorrow - kind of funny that the Great Atheoskeptic Smackdown of 2013 is beginning on Easter Sunday - I think this Rebecca Bradley post from a few months ago -- "Confessions of a Tone Troll; or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the CHUDS" is worth a reprise:

http://www.skepticink.com/lateraltruth/ ... the-chuds/

An excerpt:

Those involved in this bizarre behavior included about half of the Freethought bloggers, their Skepchick buds, and a shifting population of faithful commenters. Their demons – the targets chosen for pelting in the stocks – were increasingly men and women who might otherwise be regarded as allies and even heroes, including prominent atheists and skeptics. The concentration of vitriol, the insularity, the attacks on newcomers, chimp-style grooming of insiders, demonization of dissidents, and shrill adherence to a tight-lipped, zero-tolerance creed of “social justice,” were all ways to bind a community. It was, moreover, a community based not on reason and the examination of ideas, but on the knee-jerk application of a peculiar bigotry – any of us who were deemed to fall short were offered no empathy and no quarter, and attempts at self-defense or even rational discourse just compounded our douchebaggery in their eyes. The phenomenon began to look more and more like either a mass case of borderline personality disorder, or a cult. In fact, the recent spinoff into Atheism+ looks like a cult with a mass case of borderline personality disorder.

I treat it like a cult too. Very similar attributes, such as shunning, shaming, cult of personality, bullying, misrepresentation, deluded beliefs, redefinition of words, 'in crowd' markers by use of those words, attempts to control etc.