Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[justinvacula]

I have expanded my thoughts on the Jezebel article I linked earlier today in a Skeptic Ink Network piece of my own...with criticism of feminism with the atheist/skeptic community -

"If I Admit That ‘Hating Women’ Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy?"

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... -prophecy/

Enjoy.

[BarnOwl]

OB writes:

Birds!
My god the bird life here. I don’t know what the birds are – they’re not the birds you see in Seattle, so I don’t know. There’s a ubiquitous one that’s black with a long tail and a very loud voice. After I crossed the Congress Avenue bridge and Cesar Chavez Street I approached a cluster of oak trees on the corner and my god the din – it was an absolutely defeaning racket of those black birds, whatever they are, shouting. You never hear bird noise like that in Seattle – let alone in downtown Seattle! It was very impressive and foreign and cool.

FFS. Why doesn't she just ask someone what kind of birds they are? Great-tailed Grackles, btw - Boat-tailed Grackles are more common along the Gulf Coast. That's the thing about birds ... there are different species in different environments. The same appears to be true for plants and for other animals, oddly enough. I can't imagine how that happens. :roll:

I don't travel without a bird field guide appropriate for the region to which I'm going, but then I don't travel much at all these days. Depending on the season, I usually have field guides for wildflowers and trees as well.

[John Greg]

Really, sometimes it just gets too funny and too silly. InSvanity posts a wee post linking to a faux aplogy, clearly intended as satire, regarding a woman writing an article for a gaming site. So far as I can tell, Stefunny does not understand that it is satire (quelle surprise), and, so far as I can tell, intends to sort of mock / dismiss them. Mind you, it really is hard to tell what her point is because she doesn't in fact make a point. Well, of course, that could be intentional. That way, whatever side the majority of her readers fall she can pretend that was her intent (http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... /#comments).

She says:

Really, this is how you do it:

(Steffy's quote from article here)

Well, it’s how you do it when you don’t mean a word of it, anyway.

Aaaaaanyway, the first comment asks her:

What would you consider an appropriate apology, for a given offense?

And that's it. That's the entirety of his comment. And so, her response:

Claus, I’m approving this so people can see the kind of question people think it’s appropriate to ask me and expect me to answer. Just off the top of my head, I see that your comment (1) has nothing to do with the post linked; (2) comes from someone who doesn’t value my opinion and is, thus, asking for some other reason he did not see fit to share; (3) indicates that I’m expected to stop what I’m doing and provide you information about the inside of my head for no benefit to me; and (4) is meaningless. What is “a given offense” that I could possibly come up with any sort of reasonable answer? Don’t answer that question, by the way, Claus. I didn’t ask it for your benefit.

Head-desk, ya know? I mean, well, I don't know what I mean ... that's all just too fucking ludicrous.

[AndrewV69]

So, while I do expect that eventually women will become disenfranchised in Western countries, it looks as if the current situation will have to deteriorate far more than it has now before that will happen.

So the scenario you're talking about is political/economic collapse and/or a revolution by men and chill girls, and in the post-upheaval societies women will return to traditional roles? Do you think there's any way this could be achieved peacefully, or without revolution?

I would say in fact that usually political instability follows financial inequality and/or instability. As long as things are going well economically I believe it is reasonable to expect a fairly peaceful transition from one form to another.

Unfortunately, I do not see peaceful times ahead. What we are looking at is a financial system with a gigantic "mountain of debt" (google that phrase) that is unsustainable.

So one can only hope it would be done "peacefully". We are talking about western cultures here where "traditional" roles(1) have had different meaning in other cultures and even within similar "Western" cultures you can point to differences in outcomes(2) depending on locality.

What I see will be more of a two-tier split between those who have assets and those who do not. I expect the middle class for example to shrink considerably and concurrent with a loss of upward social mobility, a decline in influence as to how societal benefits are allocated. Note that I do not expect that they will be silenced so much as ignored by the people who do have influence. In any event, people who are struggling to acquire adequate food and shelter on a daily basis, do not seem to have too much energy left over to worry too much about other things, much less the power to affect it if they did.

I do not see the various elite classes worrying too much about the fate of the lower orders any more than they have traditionally done in the past, except where there is a clear indication that it might have a negative impact on their continued well being(3). Even then I expect the initial and continued response will be the utilization of violence till it becomes not only ineffective but a detriment. Note that I am not expecting exactly the same scenario but similar patterns and cycles we have seen in the past to reoccur.

In any event, whatever laws there are on the books will be ignored in light of the actual reality that most people will experience except where someone with the right influence can utilize it.


1). We are probably on the same page about "traditional roles" but I wanted to make a point that the only thing really traditional is that to date only women can and do give birth to children. Arguably all society have been organized around this fact and most of the more successful societal organizations were centered upon assigning specific roles divided by sex with notable exceptions to the generally most "popular" one such as the Muso of China(a), the Nayar of India(b) and the Spartans of Ancient Greece(c).

a). The Muso of China http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosuo
b). The Nayar of India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nair
c). Spartan women in Ancient Greece http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_Sparta

2). For example, in Canada the Quebec Feminists insisted that women did not not need men, and this was reflected in how common law arrangements were treated in regards to property acquited during such a relationship, and how entitlements were assigned after a breakup. Despite a recent high profile case to claim the same rights as awarded to those who did get married, nothing has changed in that respect.

The BC government by contrast, unilaterally and retroactively and recently decreed that anyone who has lived common law for two years as of March 18, 2013 was now and in the future considered an unmarried spouse and entitled to the same benefits as those who had legally tied the knot. Specifically:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/17 ... d-couples/

breakups between any couple that has shared the same roof for more than two years — or has had a child together — will now carry many of the trappings of divorce, including a 50/50 division of assets and debts.

3). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janissary# ... isbandment

As Janissaries became aware of their own importance they began to desire a better life. By the early 17th century Janissaries had such prestige and influence that they dominated the government. They could mutiny and dictate policy and hinder efforts to modernize the army structure. They could change Sultans as they wished through palace coups. They made themselves landholders and tradesmen. They would also limit the enlistment to the sons of former Janissaries who did not have to go through the original training period in the acemi oÄŸlan, as well as avoiding the physical selection, thereby reducing their military value. When Janissaries could practically extort money from the Sultan and business and family life replaced martial fervour, their effectiveness as combat troops decreased. The northern borders of the Ottoman Empire slowly began to shrink southwards after the second Battle of Vienna in 1683.

[welch]

Will anyone else stand with me and denounce this bullying and support EBW?

Can't tell if you're being serious, or somewhat ironic and just talking about the Pharyngula massacre.

Assuming you're serious (forgive me if you're not): Which "bullying" are we supposed to denounce? The reason she got attention from the 'Pit in the first place is that she went on a month-or-so long Twitter campaign smearing this place. She was the one who originally Tweeted that we were racists because I had ironically used the term "darkies" to describe the noblesse oblige approach to race relations implied in Jen McWrong's post.

Anyway, I haven't noticed anyone focusing negative attention on her since the "don't be fooled by his game when he rapes your daughter" Twitter-scuffle eventuated in John Brown's youtube apology.

I give her tons of credit for what she said in the exchange with Janphar posted above, "I am guilty. So no, I can't fault them for that." I think her Pharyngula experience genuinely opened her eyes to what we were talking about.

It would seem that she is at least open to some form of self-awareness. I highly encourage this, as it's the kind of thing I should be encouraging.

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/9pGrJip.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/FkEnSKi.jpg

[welch]

Interesting Twitter exchange in which Improbable Joe talks (mainly with Aratina, even though it's on Setar's timeline) about how betrayed he felt by the "Susan" affair at Pharyngula:

Oh boo-hoo, we hurt aratina so badly because we didn't kiss his ass enough. Wah.

[welch]

I certainly have no sympathy for Joe. He is without question one of the top ten jackasses and spreaders of deceit and disinformation.

Fuck him if cannot take what he dishes out. Just fuck him.

That's my attitude on a lot of them. They love to dish it out, but when they pick the wrong target...like people who did this kind of shit, only at night: http://www.flickr.com/photos/b1crewchie ... hotostream



Then they discover the difference between their little playground shit and someone who can really be evilly mean.

[rayshul]

I'd be interested if EBW wrote about her experiences coming from a radically pro-FtB stance to where she is now.

[Zenspace]

Steersman takes Aratina to the woodshed in this comment at Nugent's:

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/26 ... ent-209002

Incidentally, the Sewer Rat admitted yesterday at Nugent's that he doesn't identify as a skeptic and said on Twitter that he "doesn't think doxxing is a big deal."

Well I think it was pretty clear before this that Aratina is not a skeptic. And, I dunno about you but when I see Steersman swearing I take it as a sign that he is a bit annoyed.

Indeed. I think I saw the glinting of some sharp edges in that post, Steersman. Nice work.

[JackSkeptic]

I'd be interested if EBW wrote about her experiences coming from a radically pro-FtB stance to where she is now.

I see no evidence she has changed her position on anything.

[justinvacula]

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013 ... y-suggests

"Majority Disaffection"

“We’re all unhappy – apparently that’s what equality looks like,” she said. “Every other group feels discriminated against as well, and when having these conversations with people who are members of these other groups, it’s important that you understand that.”
Miles surveyed 671 student affairs professionals, primarily in the South and Midwest. About 230 respondents were black, and 415 were white.
Snippets from the responses of white men suggested many of them feel unfairly judged and at times professionally limited because of their race and gender.
“I feel that being a white male often makes me a target within the higher ed community,” one respondent said, adding that he’s been “accused” of being racist and insensitive. Another said he believed a minority colleague resented him for getting a position they both applied for, chalking it up to “white privilege.”
“White men dominate the field,” one man said. “I fully support affirmative action, but I also recognize that, at times, it makes advancement for white men more difficult.”
Another: “I don’t generally have to think about my race when I do my work. I also don’t think that people think, ‘Oh, he’s white,’ when they work with me, but often consider the race of the person if they are not white.”
Some men said they’d be fired for voicing these thoughts in the workplace.

[Zenspace]

I found this amusing http://butyoureagirl.com/about/resume/

Yeah, the page was taken down right about the time she was fired. She seems to have gone completely silent for the present.

[Steersman]

Every now and then your avatar ... does something.... just out of the corner of my eye.

Hackshine/Gif/Tongue_in_cheek.gif

Interesting; learn something new everyday. How did you know where to find it? Seen it somewhere before? Black-belt google-fu? :-)

[Steersman]

Steersman takes Aratina to the woodshed in this comment at Nugent's:

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/26 ... ent-209002

Incidentally, the Sewer Rat admitted yesterday at Nugent's that he doesn't identify as a skeptic and said on Twitter that he "doesn't think doxxing is a big deal."

Well I think it was pretty clear before this that Aratina is not a skeptic. And, I dunno about you but when I see Steersman swearing I take it as a sign that he is a bit annoyed.

Indeed. I think I saw the glinting of some sharp edges in that post, Steersman. Nice work.

Thanks – all. Although I have to give some credit to Aratina for at least showing up for the game – at least in this thread; the rest of the FtTB crowd seem “conspicuous for their absence”. But I wonder – is he some “stalking horse” to allow “them” to determine where “we” are coming from before the big game? Curious and curiouser ….

[JackSkeptic]

Steersman takes Aratina to the woodshed in this comment at Nugent's:

http://www.michaelnugent.com/2013/03/26 ... ent-209002

Incidentally, the Sewer Rat admitted yesterday at Nugent's that he doesn't identify as a skeptic and said on Twitter that he "doesn't think doxxing is a big deal."

Well I think it was pretty clear before this that Aratina is not a skeptic. And, I dunno about you but when I see Steersman swearing I take it as a sign that he is a bit annoyed.

Indeed. I think I saw the glinting of some sharp edges in that post, Steersman. Nice work.

Thanks – all. Although I have to give some credit to Aratina for at least showing up for the game – at least in this thread; the rest of the FtTB crowd seem “conspicuous for their absence”. But I wonder – is he some “stalking horse” to allow “them” to determine where “we” are coming from before the big game? Curious and curiouser ….

Perhaps, but if they need to know where we are coming from it does rather invalidate all their opinions about us doesn't it?

I actually feel Aratina was being genuine. For him emotions are everything and by his own admission he is not a skeptic. I feel he is a good person wrapped up in a story woven by the more devious elements in all this. People that use other people's genuine emotions to achieve their own idealogical ends. People like McEwan have turned this into a fine art.

[justinvacula]

Richard Carrier apparently used his speaking time at #aacon13 to stump for Atheism Plus:

http://i.imgur.com/bVA3MbR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6Qop9Zs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qhUNTET.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iIjEhwI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PcpMdkV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DOxlYaZ.jpg

[Wonderist]

Richard Carrier apparently used his speaking time at #aacon13 to stump for Atheism Plus:

http://i.imgur.com/bVA3MbR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6Qop9Zs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qhUNTET.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iIjEhwI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PcpMdkV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DOxlYaZ.jpg

I'm foreseeing an EllenBeth Wachs moment for Carrier in the not so distant future.

[welch]

Richard Carrier apparently used his speaking time at #aacon13 to stump for Atheism Plus:

http://i.imgur.com/bVA3MbR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6Qop9Zs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qhUNTET.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iIjEhwI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PcpMdkV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DOxlYaZ.jpg

I'm foreseeing an EllenBeth Wachs moment for Carrier in the not so distant future.

That would require something carrier has neither possession of, nor use for:


A spine

[rayshul]

I'd be interested if EBW wrote about her experiences coming from a radically pro-FtB stance to where she is now.

I see no evidence she has changed her position on anything.

From that conversation with janphar, I don't think she's so pro-FtB any more.

[rayshul]

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013 ... y-suggests

"Majority Disaffection"

“We’re all unhappy – apparently that’s what equality looks like,” she said. “Every other group feels discriminated against as well, and when having these conversations with people who are members of these other groups, it’s important that you understand that.”
Miles surveyed 671 student affairs professionals, primarily in the South and Midwest. About 230 respondents were black, and 415 were white.
Snippets from the responses of white men suggested many of them feel unfairly judged and at times professionally limited because of their race and gender.
“I feel that being a white male often makes me a target within the higher ed community,” one respondent said, adding that he’s been “accused” of being racist and insensitive. Another said he believed a minority colleague resented him for getting a position they both applied for, chalking it up to “white privilege.”
“White men dominate the field,” one man said. “I fully support affirmative action, but I also recognize that, at times, it makes advancement for white men more difficult.”
Another: “I don’t generally have to think about my race when I do my work. I also don’t think that people think, ‘Oh, he’s white,’ when they work with me, but often consider the race of the person if they are not white.”
Some men said they’d be fired for voicing these thoughts in the workplace.

Yeah, I'm not surprised. It's pretty fucked up. I've become immediately distrusting of any organisation that values "diversity" because I'm like... exactly what the fuck does that mean? Does that mean they're going to treat my kid like a second class citizen and shut him the fuck down all the time? Because in my experience it absolutely fucking does.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Every now and then your avatar ... does something.... just out of the corner of my eye.

Hackshine/Gif/Tongue_in_cheek.gif

Interesting; learn something new everyday. How did you know where to find it? Seen it somewhere before? Black-belt google-fu? :-)

Hehe! Steers, you salty old dog. Here you go big guy, just for you and your middle stump:

http://www.bing.com/search?q=Kaya+Scodelario

[justinvacula]

http://i.imgur.com/b0mQ3Y6.jpg

[rayshul]

Atheism Plus. AHAHAHHA. It's not going to happen, guys.



Of course, FtB are assholes and douchebags according to Shakesville, right...

[clownshoe]

Atheism Plus. AHAHAHHA. It's not going to happen, guys.

Atheism Plus... Guys don't do that.

[nippletwister]

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013 ... y-suggests

"Majority Disaffection"

“We’re all unhappy – apparently that’s what equality looks like,” she said. “Every other group feels discriminated against as well, and when having these conversations with people who are members of these other groups, it’s important that you understand that.”
Miles surveyed 671 student affairs professionals, primarily in the South and Midwest. About 230 respondents were black, and 415 were white.
Snippets from the responses of white men suggested many of them feel unfairly judged and at times professionally limited because of their race and gender.
“I feel that being a white male often makes me a target within the higher ed community,” one respondent said, adding that he’s been “accused” of being racist and insensitive. Another said he believed a minority colleague resented him for getting a position they both applied for, chalking it up to “white privilege.”
“White men dominate the field,” one man said. “I fully support affirmative action, but I also recognize that, at times, it makes advancement for white men more difficult.”
Another: “I don’t generally have to think about my race when I do my work. I also don’t think that people think, ‘Oh, he’s white,’ when they work with me, but often consider the race of the person if they are not white.”
Some men said they’d be fired for voicing these thoughts in the workplace.

Yeah, I'm not surprised. It's pretty fucked up. I've become immediately distrusting of any organisation that values "diversity" because I'm like... exactly what the fuck does that mean? Does that mean they're going to treat my kid like a second class citizen and shut him the fuck down all the time? Because in my experience it absolutely fucking does.

pointless anecdote: In college I was an arts student, literature and music. I noticed that my two professors whom were gay males were actually quite good at dealing with all kinds of students from all kinds of backgrounds, the straight males were good teachers, but constantly had to be "on guard" so as not to offend anyone, and several of the females and minority professors were already wrapped up in opening everyone's eyes to other perspectives.....as long as it wasn't the perspective of a white male.

It wasn't all that bad to be honest, but one exchange I had really opened my eyes. In my music class, there were only 10 students, and none of us were prodigies, mostly just untutored kids from high school bands. We all had to work hard as hell. I was the only one who was also paying rent and working full time. The 50-something hispanic man who was a returning student, and the women all got as much face time and extra help as they needed, or it least it seemed so, going by what I saw and heard from other students.
At one point, I was completely swamped with school and work, and started to fall behind. I had all of one ten-minute talk with the female associate professor. I asked for any advice she could give, all I got was "work harder". I didn't even ask for any outside of class time. I asked if she could maybe just inquire about my homework status once in a while, to keep me on schedule. She told me point blank "I'm not your mom. You just need to shape up", yet she continued to pretty much shower half the class with all the extra time and attention they needed.

I don't really object to what she said, but the double standard was fucking appalling. And this was 20 years ago in Bakersfiled, not exactly a hot bed of progressivism. For all my "privilege", all it got me was all the responsibility of a full adult, and not an ounce of the compassion that they liked to talk about and shower on anyone not white and male.

Just my 2 cents.

[justinvacula]

We already have the makings of a 'harassment' and 'objectification' narrative at #aacon13 - when harassment doesn't exist feminists will create it:

http://i.imgur.com/JorWseN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/uBEBg3Q.jpg

[Aneris]

We already have the makings of a 'harassment' and 'objectification' narrative at #aacon13 - when harassment doesn't exist feminists will create it:
http://i.imgur.com/JorWseN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uBEBg3Q.jpg

I keep wondering what they actually mean. I was almost asking them directly. But since this isn't possible anymore (because it would be considerd JAQing or whatever form of trolling--well done FTBullies), I am lost what they keep referring to and where their argument is. They keep blogging all day, surely they have a breakdown somewhere that clearly indicates how we (slymepit = forum = here) conspire to harass someone. Haven't seen anything.

[justinvacula]

http://i.imgur.com/MkWwSwr.jpg

Al? Is that you swinging your white cock of authority around?

[Cunning Punt]

Every now and then your avatar ... does something.... just out of the corner of my eye.

http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz35 ... _cheek.gif

She's far too young to know what that means....or maybe I'm getting too old.

[JackSkeptic]

I'd be interested if EBW wrote about her experiences coming from a radically pro-FtB stance to where she is now.

I see no evidence she has changed her position on anything.

From that conversation with janphar, I don't think she's so pro-FtB any more.

Yes very true, I meant in her core beliefs, I was unclear on that.

[JackSkeptic]

Richard Carrier apparently used his speaking time at #aacon13 to stump for Atheism Plus:

http://i.imgur.com/bVA3MbR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/6Qop9Zs.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qhUNTET.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/iIjEhwI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/PcpMdkV.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/DOxlYaZ.jpg

I'm foreseeing an EllenBeth Wachs moment for Carrier in the not so distant future.

That would require something carrier has neither possession of, nor use for:


A spine

They are conflating 'humanism' with certain forms of Social Justice. They are defining Social Justice as their form of dogma rather than equality which not if not all agree with. Carriers statement directly contradicts the stated aims of A+ as well.

Without knowing more about what he said than his tweet I have no issue with it. The issue I have is associating their beliefs and dogma with commonly understood and laudable aims.

These people assume I hate women and I am a racist because I do not subscribe to their dogma. I think they are deluded and their association with reality tenuous.

[rayshul]

Atheism Plus. AHAHAHHA. It's not going to happen, guys.

Atheism Plus... Guys don't do that.

I always think more of Gretchen in Mean Girls trying to get "fetch" to happen. It's never going to happen.

[Garlic]

I have yet to see any discussion on the subject not go rapidly downhill in no time at all. It seems to be a very emotional subject and I would be very pessimistic about the outcome. So much so I would actively discourage it.

Right. So race realism is out. It would probably be as unproductive as a debate about whether women's suffrage should be repealed, which is why I'll refrain from posting an excerpt from Vox's interesting piece today at Alpha Game Plan.

Oh I would not expect it to happen any time soon. Not in my lifetime anyway. I expect it will happen in around 80 years though if things continue to unfold they way they have been so far.

I can't see why you would expect anything like that. Is there any example of universal suffrage being durably repelled? Even fascist regimes upheld women's suffrage.

[JackSkeptic]

The issue we have is the atheist movement is infected by people who have no interest in skepticism or critical thinking. Yet they hijack those words without grasping what they mean and without grasping it applies to their beliefs too. If the atheist movement wishes to maintain any sort of credibility as well as the ability to criticise others, including theists, this attitude has to stop.

[rayshul]

Reference:

[youtube]Sir_24duiF4[/youtube]

[Submariner]

They are conflating 'humanism' with certain forms of Social Justice. They are defining Social Justice as their form of dogma rather than equality which not if not all agree with. Carriers statement directly contradicts the stated aims of A+ as well.

Without knowing more about what he said than his tweet I have no issue with it. The issue I have is associating their beliefs and dogma with commonly understood and laudable aims.

These people assume I hate women and I am a racist because I do not subscribe to their dogma. I think they are deluded and their association with reality tenuous.

Good thing that on any subject other than the historicity of Jesus, everyone pretty much agrees that Mr. Carrier is an arrogant cunt.

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Over on Meyers's blog, the frankly subhuman Nerd of Redhead says this, in response to another comment (which is embedded in the one below):

Other poster: So your saying that the guy didnt get fired for this incident? Did you read his apology on the subject? It sounds like he got fired for this incident.

NerdofRedhead: Gee ignorant fuckwitted idjit. If you educadted {sic} yourself by reading the 3500+ posts on two threads, you would know the smartmouth that got fired was on his way out already. The incident was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Now, I didn't follow this story beyond the first couple of days, but the only time I have seen this idea of the guy already being half out of the door at his company is from TurdofRedhead.

Anyone know if he is correct here, or has he flat out made shit up? Thanks, 'Pit.

[JAB]

I hope all the mods at Atheism plus have their knives sharpened... Carrier's talk might send some fresh meat for them to slay. I think the new folks might be in for a surprise if they believed the talk.

[SurpriseGuest]

I'm really looking forward to the new dialogue. Is it starting tonight or are we still waiting until tomorrow?

[JackSkeptic]

Over on Meyers's blog, the frankly subhuman Nerd of Redhead says this, in response to another comment (which is embedded in the one below):

Other poster: So your saying that the guy didnt get fired for this incident? Did you read his apology on the subject? It sounds like he got fired for this incident.

NerdofRedhead: Gee ignorant fuckwitted idjit. If you educadted {sic} yourself by reading the 3500+ posts on two threads, you would know the smartmouth that got fired was on his way out already. The incident was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Now, I didn't follow this story beyond the first couple of days, but the only time I have seen this idea of the guy already being half out of the door at his company is from TurdofRedhead.

Anyone know if he is correct here, or has he flat out made shit up? Thanks, 'Pit.

It's been a recent assertion which means I have no evidence for it. To be honest whatever those clowns say is only right by chance. I suspect the guy himself is keeping a very low profile before he makes himself unemployable. That means people like Nerd can make up anything they like and get away with it. He is one of the most obnoxious people I have ever come across on the internet by the way and I have been on it since it was invented. If he came here and 'switched sides' I doubt I would wish to hang around, that goes for most of the commentators on that blog. They are nasty, hurtful people.

[Aneris]

Over on Meyers's blog, the frankly subhuman Nerd of Redhead says this, in response to another comment (which is embedded in the one below):

Other poster: So your saying that the guy didnt get fired for this incident? Did you read his apology on the subject? It sounds like he got fired for this incident.

NerdofRedhead: Gee ignorant fuckwitted idjit. If you educadted {sic} yourself by reading the 3500+ posts on two threads, you would know the smartmouth that got fired was on his way out already. The incident was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Now, I didn't follow this story beyond the first couple of days, but the only time I have seen this idea of the guy already being half out of the door at his company is from TurdofRedhead.

Anyone know if he is correct here, or has he flat out made shit up? Thanks, 'Pit.

Subhuman? Please! Robots are people, too. BTT: I've read that one guy got fired, the other apologized. And that nothing is known why he got fired. There were claims that employees are valuable and thus wouldn't get fired over such an incident. However, you wouldn't send underachiever employees to conferences in the first place. Overchallenged HR seems more likely.

[Guest]

Oh yeah... Someone should go ask if they fabricated that on the thread, or if its true. I havent heard of Adria saying that, not that she even works with him. And he sure made it out like he was fired FOR this incident. So what was their source, is the question? Tell them to note that Adria herself was not seen saying that nor the guy.

[JackSkeptic]

I'm really looking forward to the new dialogue. Is it starting tonight or are we still waiting until tomorrow?

There are timings and they have been discussed. It was never going to be today and the timings given were suggestions (initially late Saturday) It is likely to be Sunday now and there is a very specific time but I do not want to put external pressure on anyone as there are numerous reasons that may slip. It is important both sides are fully satisfied with their respective statement and that whatever time is needed is provided.

[JackSkeptic]

Oh yeah... Someone should go ask if they fabricated that on the thread, or if its true. I havent heard of Adria saying that, not that she even works with him. And he sure made it out like he was fired FOR this incident. So what was their source, is the question? Tell them to note that Adria herself was not seen saying that nor the guy.

Good luck with asking. They don't like questions or statements that goes against their perfect little made up world. Ask EBW.

[Submariner]

Oh yeah... Someone should go ask if they fabricated that on the thread, or if its true. I havent heard of Adria saying that, not that she even works with him. And he sure made it out like he was fired FOR this incident. So what was their source, is the question? Tell them to note that Adria herself was not seen saying that nor the guy.

It likely came from this:

[urlhttp://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/playhaven-on-fired-sex-joke-developer-it-wasnt-just-one-issue/#s2qIo26skpYxSIJc.99[/url]

The author doesn't give much data for his title's conclusion other than this:

That’s basically what the company representative who I talked to this morning said as well, adding that there are multiple considerations that factor into decisions like this.

[BannedAidUnlogged]

Over on Meyers's blog, the frankly subhuman Nerd of Redhead says this, in response to another comment (which is embedded in the one below):

Other poster: So your saying that the guy didnt get fired for this incident? Did you read his apology on the subject? It sounds like he got fired for this incident.

NerdofRedhead: Gee ignorant fuckwitted idjit. If you educadted {sic} yourself by reading the 3500+ posts on two threads, you would know the smartmouth that got fired was on his way out already. The incident was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Now, I didn't follow this story beyond the first couple of days, but the only time I have seen this idea of the guy already being half out of the door at his company is from TurdofRedhead.

Anyone know if he is correct here, or has he flat out made shit up? Thanks, 'Pit.

The only thing substantive (read: not pulled from FTB's ass) I remember seeing was the statement from playhaven that Submariner posted a while back:

Mar 21, 2013 / 1:56am
Addressing PyCon
Andy Yang
Andy Yang
CEO
View other articles
0

It has come to our attention that a topic concerning a former PlayHaven employee has generated a passionate online debate.

There are a number of inaccuracies being reported and I would like to take this opportunity to provide some clarity.

PlayHaven had an employee who was identified as making inappropriate comments at PyCon, and as a company that is dedicated to gender equality and values honorable behavior, we conducted a thorough investigation. The result of this investigation led to the unfortunate outcome of having to let this employee go. We value and protect the privacy of our employees, both past and present, and we will not comment on all the factors that contributed to our parting ways.

This employee was not Alex Reid, who is still with the company and a valued employee.

We believe in the importance of discussing sensitive topics such as gender and conduct and we hope to move forward with a civil dialogue based on the facts.

In that spirit, I would personally like to hear your thoughts and concerns.

Email me at ceo@playhaven.com. I will do my best to respond and encourage an active and civil dialogue.

I suppose they could read into the their choice of "factors" and not "factor" as meaning there was some prior problem, but they would be pulling it out of their ass if they did.Not sure what part of "we value and protect the privacy of our employees, both past and present" they think means, "that guy was a troublemaker from the start."

[Submariner]

borked the url

http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/21/playh ... -one-issue

[SurpriseGuest]

The CEO could save a lot of inbox by being less ambiguous. Gender equality? Is he saying dongle jokes arw sexist?

[JackSkeptic]

The CEO could save a lot of inbox by being less ambiguous. Gender equality? Is he saying dongle jokes arw sexist?

PR has to be ambiguous. Because of people like Nerd who will read what they want to see.

Also join here you slacker.

[sacha]

I find it sad that they are more concerned with blaming us than caring about EBW

Gotta keep up that victim narrative...even if it means victimizing their own.

Yup. EBW is regularly a prickly pain in the ass, but from her supposed allies, she'd earned better

What? I was 'friends' with PZ for ages, and he had no problem throwing me under the bus when I mildly chastised Watson (why? have to ask his psychiatrist). They dont have friends. They have tools. You throw away a tool when it 'breaks'. EBW 'broke' so she got tossed, like everyone else who confused our relationship as their 'friends'.

exactly. There is no loyalty. It is the popular girl's clique in high school. Assimilate or be shunned. Heathers.

and yes, I think it is funny as fuck when one of the "popular chicks" makes one wrong move, and finds themselves eating their lunch at a big table, all alone with the others pointing and whispering.

The universe is indifferent, so I find pleasure in the rare times someone gets exactly what they deserve.

[SurpriseGuest]

Jack, that would be most... Hard. A tiny device is what Im using.

If the CEO thinks email would prevent people like Nerd complaining, he is wrong. I have sent him an email, if he'll listen...

[Aneris]

The CEO could save a lot of inbox by being less ambiguous. Gender equality? Is he saying dongle jokes arw sexist?

Most likely they were not, but seem more like textbook double entendres. But we can't know without a transcript. Hence, benefit of doubt. The company will now anyway hint at whatever makes them come away best. It doesn't matter anyway.

[JackSkeptic]

Jack, that would be most... Hard. A tiny device is what Im using.

If the CEO thinks email would prevent people like Nerd complaining, he is wrong. I have sent him an email, if he'll listen...

I was joking. Joining here can ruin someone's life the same as coming out as atheist did to many.

I suspect the CEO is overwhelmed with email and it all goes to trash.

[Michael K Gray]

Is there any example of universal suffrage being durably repelled? Even fascist regimes upheld women's suffrage.

Saudi Arabia?

[Michael K Gray]

The issue we have is the atheist movement is infected by people who have no interest in skepticism or critical thinking.

Objection, your honour!
"Infected" is a misleading and thoroughly poisonous term in this case.
I keep trying to impress on the learned counsel that a-theism has nothing necessarily to do with either skepticism or critical thinking!
It is simple the absence of a belief.
Whilst a-theism may be caused by skepticism, it is not in any way dependent upon it for the majority of atheists.
Any number of unskeptical, (or even anti-skeptical), and/or uncritical thinkers can and have embraced atheism with gusto, and will continue to do so.

Of course we have "people who have no interest in skepticism or critical thinking"! M'lud.
(I gave several examples in a prior submission to the court. Exhibit A-theism.)

I request that you advise Sir Jack to withdraw his unfounded and scurrilous remark, as it renders our well-water somewhat unpalatable, or I shall have a hissy-fit in the robing room, and go to the bar association afterward.
(Watson will be there as well, I am led to understand. Perhaps she has the legal term "Bar" confused with something else.)

[Michael K Gray]

He is one of the most obnoxious people I have ever come across on the internet by the way and I have been on it since it was invented. If he came here and 'switched sides' I doubt I would wish to hang around, that goes for most of the commentators on that blog. They are nasty, hurtful people.

Have ever chanced across |-|erc from Queensland on USENET?

[Michael K Gray]

I find it sad that they are more concerned with blaming us than caring about EBW

Gotta keep up that victim narrative...even if it means victimizing their own.

Yup. EBW is regularly a prickly pain in the ass, but from her supposed allies, she'd earned better

What? I was 'friends' with PZ for ages, and he had no problem throwing me under the bus when I mildly chastised Watson (why? have to ask his psychiatrist). They dont have friends. They have tools. You throw away a tool when it 'breaks'. EBW 'broke' so she got tossed, like everyone else who confused our relationship as their 'friends'.

exactly. There is no loyalty. It is the popular girl's clique in high school. Assimilate or be shunned. Heathers.

and yes, I think it is funny as fuck when one of the "popular chicks" makes one wrong move, and finds themselves eating their lunch at a big table, all alone with the others pointing and whispering.

The universe is indifferent, so I find pleasure in the rare times someone gets exactly what they deserve.

What does Scented Nectar say to distil this approach?
"Scrutiny is Mutiny"!

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Over on Meyers's blog, the frankly subhuman Nerd of Redhead says this, in response to another comment (which is embedded in the one below):

Other poster: So your saying that the guy didnt get fired for this incident? Did you read his apology on the subject? It sounds like he got fired for this incident.

NerdofRedhead: Gee ignorant fuckwitted idjit. If you educadted {sic} yourself by reading the 3500+ posts on two threads, you would know the smartmouth that got fired was on his way out already. The incident was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Now, I didn't follow this story beyond the first couple of days, but the only time I have seen this idea of the guy already being half out of the door at his company is from TurdofRedhead.

Anyone know if he is correct here, or has he flat out made shit up? Thanks, 'Pit.

It's been a recent assertion which means I have no evidence for it. To be honest whatever those clowns say is only right by chance. I suspect the guy himself is keeping a very low profile before he makes himself unemployable. That means people like Nerd can make up anything they like and get away with it. He is one of the most obnoxious people I have ever come across on the internet by the way and I have been on it since it was invented. If he came here and 'switched sides' I doubt I would wish to hang around, that goes for most of the commentators on that blog. They are nasty, hurtful people.

Thanks.

Oddly enough, Nerd failed to provide a citation for this "fact". Which left me assuming it was actually his unevidenced OPINION which *FLOOSH* can be sent to the sewer as spoken by a proven bullshitter and idjit.

[rayshul]

I'd be interested if EBW wrote about her experiences coming from a radically pro-FtB stance to where she is now.

I see no evidence she has changed her position on anything.

From that conversation with janphar, I don't think she's so pro-FtB any more.

Yes very true, I meant in her core beliefs, I was unclear on that.

I think that alone is fascinating. It's a deconversion of sorts - when you believe absolutely that someone is right and advocating for a cause that aligns with yours... and then you discover that it gets turned on its head, and you wind up being a victim. I'm sure EBW has her own politics and won't shift on them... but I think she's become disillusioned, thanks to FtB, about how much support she can find from certain groups and how much common ground on some issues means to ideologues who are entrenched in a their way or the highway mentality.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is I think that would be interesting to read. I know I'm never going to agree with EBW on her views on women.