Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[sacha]

Just to reaffirm the point, that Doug Stanhope really is one of the greatest guys in the standup business today:



Go here to donate to Rebecca Vitsmun.

[youtube]2n34eeXWjUQ[/youtube]

[AndrewV69]

Thanks for the responses people. I think I have a better handle on Haley et al now.

(who am I kidding. Fuck me if I understand humans)

[ERV]

Just to reaffirm the point, that Doug Stanhope really is one of the greatest guys in the standup business today:



Go here to donate to Rebecca Vitsmun.

Fuck yeah!

So the sexist libertarian* is doing more for a female in atheism than the entirety of A†heism? I cannot imagine!


* Of course, ignoring what everyone else is doing to help this family, other atheist families, and all of those effected by the tornado. Hell, even I made a Gender Traitor goodie bag full of makeup and lotion and girly crap she (and others) might miss. Whats the birth mother of A†heism doing? Talking about donuts? Oh, okay, I guess that helps those in need... somehow... :-/ At least shes not using others deaths for political fodder and jokes... I guess...

[JackSkeptic]

Just to reaffirm the point, that Doug Stanhope really is one of the greatest guys in the standup business today:



Go here to donate to Rebecca Vitsmun.

Fuck yeah!

So the sexist libertarian* is doing more for a female in atheism than the entirety of A†heism? I cannot imagine!


* Of course, ignoring what everyone else is doing to help this family, other atheist families, and all of those effected by the tornado. Hell, even I made a Gender Traitor goodie bag full of makeup and lotion and girly crap she (and others) might miss. Whats the birth mother of A†heism doing? Talking about donuts? Oh, okay, I guess that helps those in need... somehow... :-/ At least shes not using others deaths for political fodder and jokes... I guess...

You do it because your compassion and empathy demands it. They do it for the blog hits and feeling of superiority. That's why they trip up so much when trying to wear their hearts on their sleeves. We can see through that false narrative and attempt at moral superiority.

I'll respect PMZ more if I hear he spends one day a week working at the soup kitchen. I have an evangelical Christian friend I respect considerably more than him as he does not talk he actually DOES it. PMZ is a very bad figurehead for any atheist movement I have any interest in.

[Steersman]

Thanks for the responses people. I think I have a better handle on Haley et al now.

(who am I kidding. Fuck me if I understand humans)

Indeed.

“Why we do the things we do” seems to be a rather obscure and problematic question with no shortage of answers, many of which are likely to be rather short of the mark. I at least tend to sympathize with the argument that much of what we do is on auto-pilot – I, of course, being the “only living boy in New York” – such that it is maybe less a case of Trivers’ Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life than one of so much happening underneath the hood.

[Steersman]

The first photo is of about 30 bags of sand along the lakeshore - I didn't have time to do more than that. And that concrete wall is about 12 feet from the cabin. And last year the water level rose to within 6 inches of the top of that wall.

The second one is of the hot-water tank, pump and reservoir that we had to move out of the way to pour a small concrete pad under them, and then move back into place after replacing the reservoir with a larger one (shown).

P5220298.JPG

P5220296.JPG

Christ, man, were you fucking running through the room when you took that second photo?

Very little light in the basement at the time, and no time to figure out how to set up the flash. So I expect that the shutter speed was too slow for a crisp picture - probably compounded by my palsy … ;-)

[Trophy]

Just read Carrier's post about Lindsay.

What Do Ron Lindsay and an Oklahoma Tornado Have in Common? Besides raging over the same weekend? Both are ignorantly destructive blowhards, apparently. At least Lindsay didn’t kill anything (except his own common sense, and maybe his career in secular leadership).

So Ron Lindsay hurting your tender feelings for calling out your bullshit is comparable to a tornado that killed people, including children, animals, and ripped a town apart? Epic compassion fail.

I'm pretty sure the tornado part is a joke, e.g., what do priests and Christmas trees have in common? They both have balls for decoration. Or what do priests and McDonalds have in common? They both stick their meat in 10 years old buns.

[Skep tickle]

http://www.cfisummit.org/ October 24-27, 2013 in Tacoma WA (USA)

Should examination of religious beliefs remain largely off limits for skeptics? Should secular humanists be as critical of fringe science claims, including alternative medicine, as they are of religious beliefs? To what extent do skeptics and humanists have a common mission? Both skeptics and humanists support science and critical thinking—but what else unites them? Are there public policy issues on which skeptics and humanists can productively collaborate?

The best way to answer these questions is to bring skeptics and humanists together to talk about them—and that’s exactly what we’re doing.

On October 24-27, 2013, we’re holding The CFI Summit: a joint conference of the Center for Inquiry and its affiliate organizations, the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry and the Council for Secular Humanism.

...

The Great Debates
The heated battles over church-state separation, the health crisis caused by vaccine misinformation, the threats to our schools from pseudoscience and pseudo-history, the oppression of women and religious dissidents around the world, the countless victims of fraudulent psychics and alt-med practitioners, the growth of the “Nones” and the sociology of belief, and where humanists and skeptics can (and cannot) work together – all of it will be part of the grand discussion at the CFI Summit.

...

Special Members Meeting
The CFI Summit will also have a first for CFI. President & CEO Ronald A. Lindsay will host an exclusive Members Meeting, a chance for CFI Friends of the Center and Associate Members of CSH or CSI to join in conversation with organization leadership. Members will be able to weigh in on what they see as the best way forward for our movement, and how our organizations can best work together to achieve those goals.

I like the idea of discussion about the overlap & distinct areas of humanism & skepticism. Notice that feminism does not get specific mention (nor should it, IMO) except that it's undoubtedly on their minds (esp in "can (and cannot) work together").

I'm going to try to go. Especially since I've now joined CFI & can be in on the Members Meeting part of it, can add a voice.

Quite a few speakers are listed, including several from the Pacific NW, including (currently) Harriet Hall and Ophelia Benson.

[Dick Strawkins]

I love the following clip that Sam Harris posted recently.
It features Egyptian TV presenter Riham Said facing a islamic cleric and refusing to shut up and listen.
She brings up the subject of sexual abuse of women by clerics and provokes from him a hissy fit worthy of Watson being told she'll have to pay her own bar tab.

[youtube]z2rL6NDoyKg[/youtube]

It is interesting to note the word used by the cleric to describe Rihads challenge of his hypocrisy.

http://i.imgur.com/nGEpbpO.jpg

[Gefan]

That's the beauty of Welch's ass. You see in it only what you bring yourself. It's like looking into the face of God.

Only bigger.

[Gefan]

Just to reaffirm the point, that Doug Stanhope really is one of the greatest guys in the standup business today:



Go here to donate to Rebecca Vitsmun.

Not as awesome as his 2008 fund drive to pay for Bristol Palin to have an abortion, but still mighty cool.
This place, like life in general, could use more Stanhope.

[Gefan]

I love the following clip that Sam Harris posted recently.
It features Egyptian TV presenter Riham Said facing a islamic cleric and refusing to shut up and listen.
She brings up the subject of sexual abuse of women by clerics and provokes from him a hissy fit worthy of Watson being told she'll have to pay her own bar tab.

[youtube]z2rL6NDoyKg[/youtube]

It is interesting to note the word used by the cleric to describe Rihads challenge of his hypocrisy.

http://i.imgur.com/nGEpbpO.jpg

Why does he have a small wedding cake on his head?

[Dick Strawkins]

I love the following clip that Sam Harris posted recently.
It features Egyptian TV presenter Riham Said facing a islamic cleric and refusing to shut up and listen.
She brings up the subject of sexual abuse of women by clerics and provokes from him a hissy fit worthy of Watson being told she'll have to pay her own bar tab.

[youtube]z2rL6NDoyKg[/youtube]

It is interesting to note the word used by the cleric to describe Rihads challenge of his hypocrisy.

http://i.imgur.com/nGEpbpO.jpg

Why does he have a small wedding cake on his head?

Perhaps he's a Souffle muslim.

[Dick Strawkins]

The #vaculamustdenounce twitter hashtag was funny for a while, but it's getting ruined by Vacula spamming it to death.
Vacula, it's meant to be for jokes.
You are just not funny enough! :shifty:

[JayTeeAitch]

cunt says:

This forum is a fucking shithole, really.

So, what's got your knickers in hissy twist now?

I guess he can't be arsed to argue some point about Silverman that the rest of us morons got wrong, "probably".

If Silverman was really only asking about specific examples like that mspaint job, why did he demand this ridiculous statement from Justin and approve it afterwards?

http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... demnation/

Some thing really bothers me about the demand david silverman made before he would have a conversation with justin. Maybe because it was public and didn't need to be. It kinda made Justin look bad when he didn't deserve it. Hasn't that happened enough? I know he can take it but was david just bored or frustrated and needed to vent on someone? The other thing about it being done in public is the way PZ claimed it as a win which was followed by david kissing PZ and his wife square on the ass instead of taking the opportunity to present PZ with the same request as he had Justin. I had a lot of respect for david silverman but I see red flags or extreme ignorance....

Yeah, I've been looking for Sean Hannity's page of denouncement before Silverman appeared on his show. Can't find it...

[Trophy]

IMO, the demand for denouncement is to (partially) shut up his own base so in case he talks to JV, they don't turn on him. It's a typical political maneuver.

[Guest]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

[biblia]

0h abbie

I am so sorry. I live in a place so benign the horror of tornado cells seems so far away but still haunt me (minnesota c. 1965) No prayers or blessings, but thinking about you and all okers. OOOOklahoma.

[sacha]

hi lost control,

how is your girl?

[AbsurdWalls]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

To me it is more like the idea that every time there is an Islamist terrorist attack we need to ask each individual Muslim to personally disavow themselves from it.

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

Ok ...derp...derp...derp. I think I just quoted something I should have put a hyperlink in. I better go get my coffee.

It's alright, I can cut and paste.

Steersman is different. I think the word recursion was invented just for him.

He sounds like a hilarious poster. I take it despite some on here having some negative feelings about him he did bring a bit of humor to the place that even most of his detractors would admit?

"Hilarious" isn't the first word that comes to mind when I think of Steersman. Such humor as he generates tends to come by way of the images generated by the talented among us, like Tigzy, Jan Steen, and the peerless Gumby.
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10&start=225

Fuck you very much for reminding me of the xistence of that thread! Those Listverse and Cracked articles aren't gonna read themselves, you know?

[Phil_Giordana_FCD]

And Jan: please bring back the Pharyngulanhas.

Also, Sckepcheik, if you're lurking, bring back Peezus and O.

[Gumby]

Just read Carrier's post about Lindsay.

What Do Ron Lindsay and an Oklahoma Tornado Have in Common? Besides raging over the same weekend? Both are ignorantly destructive blowhards, apparently. At least Lindsay didn’t kill anything (except his own common sense, and maybe his career in secular leadership).

So Ron Lindsay hurting your tender feelings for calling out your bullshit is comparable to a tornado that killed people, including children, animals, and ripped a town apart? Epic compassion fail.

I'm pretty sure the tornado part is a joke, e.g., what do priests and Christmas trees have in common? They both have balls for decoration. Or what do priests and McDonalds have in common? They both stick their meat in 10 years old buns.

Well yeah, it's understood that it's a joke, but it's not only horribly inappropriate considering how many people died, but also that it was uttered by an arrogant assclown who tells people that what he stands for (A+) is all about "compassion" and that anyone who isn't part of it is a rapey uncompassionate douche.

I'd consider that joke as inappropriate coming from anyone, not just a narcissistic mirror-gazer posing as a "caring human being" like Richard Carrier.

[Dick Strawkins]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry. I felt bad but also realized that, when I got to my room on Friday and Saturday nights, after spending time at the conference, that I wanted to cry too.

The writer is clearly a friend of the Skepchicks, but the description of Hensleys organizational skills leave me, well not surprised in the least.

He throws in some criticism of Lindsays 'privilege' at the end but I think the obvious thing that Lindsay can be charged with is promoting an incompetent like Melody Hensley far above her ability.

[Gumby]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

Melody is from the future?

But seriously, it's nice to see the "privileged" argument being thrown back in the face of one of its mis-users.

[lost control]

hi lost control,

how is your girl?

Hi sacha,

she's doing ok. Not great, but she's holding up. Her thyroid related levels are mostly stabilized, but not perfect, so she still feels quite exhausted most of the time. Another MRT appointment is scheduled for mid June. If that brain scan checks out again, she mostly dodged the bullet, I'd say. Apart from having to deal with her conditions for the rest of her life. But there are worse things. Well, she has to deal with me. :?

[Gumby]

OMG I just read that blind persons summary of his experience at WiS2. If it really went down that way, Melody comes off as the most insensitive vacuous bitch on the planet. "Yeah I know exactly what it's like to be blind because I once hurt my ankle and couldn't walk up the stairs."

:violin:

Fuck me sideways. You'd think that would teach Hensley to think before she speaks, and that baselessly throwing around accusations of "privilege" is liable to eventually lead to your being nailed to the hypocrisy wall... but something tells me she Just. Won't. Get. It..... and the next time she meets a quadriplegic she'll say "Hey, I know just what you're going through - I had a hangnail once and it was a real oww-eee!

Great find, Dick!

[Dick Strawkins]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

Melody is from the future?

But seriously, it's nice to see the "privileged" argument being thrown back in the face of one of its mis-users.

Ron Lindsay's argument was that 'privilege' can be a useful argument in certain circumstances but that it can be overused.
It is interesting now that we have a very good example of where it might be useful, right under the noses of the WISC organizers, and they (Hensley and fellow organizer hubby Simon) chose to ignore it.

If you read the article you'll also see that she mentions only one speaker showing an understanding of the issues - Maryam Namazie, someone who has never joined in the FTB bullying tactics and who remains firmly an ally of Dawkins.

[Zenspace]

hi lost control,

how is your girl?

Hi sacha,

she's doing ok. Not great, but she's holding up. Her thyroid related levels are mostly stabilized, but not perfect, so she still feels quite exhausted most of the time. Another MRT appointment is scheduled for mid June. If that brain scan checks out again, she mostly dodged the bullet, I'd say. Apart from having to deal with her conditions for the rest of her life. But there are worse things. Well, she has to deal with me. :?

As with Renee and her guy, having an understanding and supportive companion can make all the difference. A sense of humor helps a lot, too. Good on ya.

[Dick Strawkins]

OMG I just read that blind persons summary of his experience at WiS2. If it really went down that way, Melody comes off as the most insensitive vacuous bitch on the planet. "Yeah I know exactly what it's like to be blind because I once hurt my ankle and couldn't walk up the stairs."

:violin:

Fuck me sideways. You'd think that would teach Hensley to think before she speaks, and that baselessly throwing around accusations of "privilege" is liable to eventually lead to your being nailed to the hypocrisy wall... but something tells me she Just. Won't. Get. It..... and the next time she meets a quadriplegic she'll say "Hey, I know just what you're going through - I had a hangnail once and it was a real oww-eee!

Great find, Dick!

I spotted it on Ally Fogg's twitter feed.

[Gumby]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

Melody is from the future?

But seriously, it's nice to see the "privileged" argument being thrown back in the face of one of its mis-users.

Ron Lindsay's argument was that 'privilege' can be a useful argument in certain circumstances but that it can be overused.
It is interesting now that we have a very good example of where it might be useful, right under the noses of the WISC organizers, and they (Hensley and fellow organizer hubby Simon) chose to ignore it.

You're right, this anecdote is a perfect illustration. Lindsay made a lot of sense, but of course the feminist navel gazers made it all about them and their fee-fees. Unfortunately Ron made one mistake, the one a lot of people do, in his followup blog post - he gave the rabid chihuahuas something to attack with his "North Korea" snark. We know from experience it only takes one tiny thing like that to give that crowd their excuse to ignore what was actually being said, and to pile on the one misstep as a distraction.

[AbsurdWalls]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

Melody is from the future?

But seriously, it's nice to see the "privileged" argument being thrown back in the face of one of its mis-users.

Ron Lindsay's argument was that 'privilege' can be a useful argument in certain circumstances but that it can be overused.
It is interesting now that we have a very good example of where it might be useful, right under the noses of the WISC organizers, and they (Hensley and fellow organizer hubby Simon) chose to ignore it.

If you read the article you'll also see that she mentions only one speaker showing an understanding of the issues - Maryam Namazie, someone who has never joined in the FTB bullying tactics and who remains firmly an ally of Dawkins.

Be fair, he also mentions Rebecca and Amy helping him out.

[bovarchist]

First PZ is against people taking risks to get cool videos:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ell-phone/

Now suddenly he's for it:
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... er-powers/

[Gumby]

I spotted it on Ally Fogg's twitter feed.
[/quote]

:lol:

Rut roh.

Bad Ally! Bad!

I expect Ally to get a sternly-worded email from PZ.

[Dick Strawkins]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

Melody is from the future?

But seriously, it's nice to see the "privileged" argument being thrown back in the face of one of its mis-users.

Ron Lindsay's argument was that 'privilege' can be a useful argument in certain circumstances but that it can be overused.
It is interesting now that we have a very good example of where it might be useful, right under the noses of the WISC organizers, and they (Hensley and fellow organizer hubby Simon) chose to ignore it.

If you read the article you'll also see that she mentions only one speaker showing an understanding of the issues - Maryam Namazie, someone who has never joined in the FTB bullying tactics and who remains firmly an ally of Dawkins.

Be fair, he also mentions Rebecca and Amy helping him out.

He does mention them being friendly to him and helping him out - so good for them for doing that - but I think he has an issue with the speakers with presentations (the skepchicks and Carry Poppy were panelists rather than speakers) and makes the point himself in his post.

* Only one speaker, one of the last speakers to do a presentation, actually thought that the two blind people sitting in the front row with their dogs, something obvious to anyone at the podium, might want her to read the things on her slides aloud so we might also know what the other people were laughing at. This presenter, though, is from Iran and she's experienced tremendously horrible discrimination up close and personal. It didn't matter how much diversity was being discussed on the stage, our abilities were simply ignored.

[jjbinx007]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

Wow, that's one heck of an article.

I hope all the SJWs read this and take it on board.

[Scented Nectar]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

Melody is from the future?

But seriously, it's nice to see the "privileged" argument being thrown back in the face of one of its mis-users.

Ron Lindsay's argument was that 'privilege' can be a useful argument in certain circumstances but that it can be overused.
It is interesting now that we have a very good example of where it might be useful, right under the noses of the WISC organizers, and they (Hensley and fellow organizer hubby Simon) chose to ignore it.

If you read the article you'll also see that she mentions only one speaker showing an understanding of the issues - Maryam Namazie, someone who has never joined in the FTB bullying tactics and who remains firmly an ally of Dawkins.

Maryam is the only one there who is sensible and who brings up REAL issues of theocratic sexism. The other bloggers there are just attention seeking missiles who exaggerate and/or make it all about themselves. Their tales of woe are contrived, and indulged in, states of victimhood.

[bovarchist]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry. I felt bad but also realized that, when I got to my room on Friday and Saturday nights, after spending time at the conference, that I wanted to cry too.

The writer is clearly a friend of the Skepchicks, but the description of Hensleys organizational skills leave me, well not surprised in the least.

He throws in some criticism of Lindsays 'privilege' at the end but I think the obvious thing that Lindsay can be charged with is promoting an incompetent like Melody Hensley far above her ability.

Doesn't seem to me like the guy's on our side. It certainly doesn't provide any help for Lindsay. Also, as an aside, I'm not sure the author is entirely consistent about how he wants to be treated. Is he asking to be treated like everybody else because he's just as capable as they are, or is he asking for special help and consideration because he's disabled? He ultimately sounds like kind of a dick. Reminded me of the Elayne Boosler character on Night Court.

[Dick Strawkins]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry. I felt bad but also realized that, when I got to my room on Friday and Saturday nights, after spending time at the conference, that I wanted to cry too.

The writer is clearly a friend of the Skepchicks, but the description of Hensleys organizational skills leave me, well not surprised in the least.

He throws in some criticism of Lindsays 'privilege' at the end but I think the obvious thing that Lindsay can be charged with is promoting an incompetent like Melody Hensley far above her ability.

Doesn't seem to me like the guy's on our side. It certainly doesn't provide any help for Lindsay. Also, as an aside, I'm not sure the author is entirely consistent about how he wants to be treated. Is he asking to be treated like everybody else because he's just as capable as they are, or is he asking for special help and consideration because he's disabled? He ultimately sounds like kind of a dick. Reminded me of the Elayne Boosler character on Night Court.

He doesn't provide much direct support for Lindsay and does seem to be politically right there with the FTB/Skepchick side, but he does pretty much destroy any chance of Melody Hensley being able to use the privilege argument in the future.

[BarnOwl]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

Wow, that's one heck of an article.

I hope all the SJWs read this and take it on board.

Fogg's tweet with the linked article has been RT'd by PeeZus -wonder if he actually read it?

[Zenspace]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry. I felt bad but also realized that, when I got to my room on Friday and Saturday nights, after spending time at the conference, that I wanted to cry too.

The writer is clearly a friend of the Skepchicks, but the description of Hensleys organizational skills leave me, well not surprised in the least.

He throws in some criticism of Lindsays 'privilege' at the end but I think the obvious thing that Lindsay can be charged with is promoting an incompetent like Melody Hensley far above her ability.

Doesn't seem to me like the guy's on our side. It certainly doesn't provide any help for Lindsay. Also, as an aside, I'm not sure the author is entirely consistent about how he wants to be treated. Is he asking to be treated like everybody else because he's just as capable as they are, or is he asking for special help and consideration because he's disabled? He ultimately sounds like kind of a dick. Reminded me of the Elayne Boosler character on Night Court.

I kind of got the same feeling from reading the article, but I'll give some room because he clearly was prepared - and apparently offered - to assist in addressing some of the potential issues. What most of the between-the-lines stuff tells me is that Melody is operating way over her head. Also, that the author is personally friendly with so e of the Skepchicks and this very likely played a part in RW's interest and response, but I'll still give her credit on the assist.

I can't help but think some of the drama is a bit overplayed. Take the chair aisles thing for example. Most attendance reports quote about 300 attendees. Only two blind persons attend and complain that the entire room setup wasn't designed to accommodate them so they could sit wherever they wanted. That seems a bit self-centered and over-reaching to me. There could well be extenuating circumstances, such as a significant reduction in seating capacity in the room if the wider aisle format were used. That said, what we have done in similar circumstance when wheelchairs are involved, is to simply remove the aisle chairs so the wheelchair bound persons could access those places once the desire is brought to our attention. A very simple way to accommodate those individuals. I have found this approach very practical for everyone, but then I am probably just an ableist hardass.

[Zenspace]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

Wow, that's one heck of an article.

I hope all the SJWs read this and take it on board.

Fogg's tweet with the linked article has been RT'd by PeeZus -wonder if he actually read it?

Split decision: the article disses heavily on Melody, but praises RW, Amy and the Skepchicks. Melody goes under the bus, RW gets the win.

[Cunning Punt]

The first photo is of about 30 bags of sand along the lakeshore - I didn't have time to do more than that. And that concrete wall is about 12 feet from the cabin. And last year the water level rose to within 6 inches of the top of that wall.

The second one is of the hot-water tank, pump and reservoir that we had to move out of the way to pour a small concrete pad under them, and then move back into place after replacing the reservoir with a larger one (shown).

P5220298.JPG

P5220296.JPG

Christ, man, were you fucking running through the room when you took that second photo?

Everyone's a critic.

[zenbabe]

I love the following clip that Sam Harris posted recently.
It features Egyptian TV presenter Riham Said facing a islamic cleric and refusing to shut up and listen.
She brings up the subject of sexual abuse of women by clerics and provokes from him a hissy fit worthy of Watson being told she'll have to pay her own bar tab.

[youtube]z2rL6NDoyKg[/youtube]

It is interesting to note the word used by the cleric to describe Rihads challenge of his hypocrisy.

http://i.imgur.com/nGEpbpO.jpg

Oooh that was fun. I like how she said that she wore her scarf for god, not for HIM (the cleric) and his demands, demands which he wanted to enforce only when they were on the air, a hypocrisy she instantly confronted him on. Love that she called him out for having to be paid to be interviewed, love that she wouldn't back down, love that -she- ended the interview.

His reactions were very interesting. Not only that he kept claiming harassment but also that he repeatedly threatened to sue the station and shut them down. "If you don't behave the way I demand and act the way I demand I am going to delete you". The parallels with the way PZ et al react when their hypocrisy is exposed and their behaviors are criticized are striking.

But by all means, CSI etc, keep giving them the microphone and paying their expenses for conferences. Just don't wear the scarf if they demand it.

[Trophy]

I cannot blame the conference coordinators for the behavior of the attendees but this was also a downright surreal experience for both me and my blind friend. Lots of people approached us but, with very few exceptions, they talked to our dogs and not to us humans. A lot of people asked our dog's names but not ours. Those who actually engaged us in conversation talked only about dogs.

Damn. The amount of cluelessness displayed by the attendees is quite amazing. The ONLY benetfit of attending a conference like this is to meet people and talk to them in person. And it's pretty much the normal procedure is that you meet someone, do the introdution, do a little chit chat, ask the obvious questions and if you end up in a nice conversation you continue otherwise, terminate the conversation by "needing to pick up some coffee/juice/cookie/whatever".

Conferences are for meeting, greeting, networking, and socializing. Talking to dogs and ignoring the owners is not socializing. It's the opposite.

Even I as a slymepitter know this kind of stuff.

[Trophy]

I love the following clip that Sam Harris posted recently.
It features Egyptian TV presenter Riham Said facing a islamic cleric and refusing to shut up and listen.
She brings up the subject of sexual abuse of women by clerics and provokes from him a hissy fit worthy of Watson being told she'll have to pay her own bar tab.

[youtube]z2rL6NDoyKg[/youtube]

It is interesting to note the word used by the cleric to describe Rihads challenge of his hypocrisy.

Oooh that was fun. I like how she said that she wore her scarf for god, not for HIM (the cleric) and his demands, demands which he wanted to enforce only when they were on the air, a hypocrisy she instantly confronted him on. Love that she called him out for having to be paid to be interviewed, love that she wouldn't back down, love that -she- ended the interview.

His reactions were very interesting. Not only that he kept claiming harassment but also that he repeatedly threatened to sue the station and shut them down. "If you don't behave the way I demand and act the way I demand I am going to delete you". The parallels with the way PZ et al react when their hypocrisy is exposed and their behaviors are criticized are striking.

But by all means, CSI etc, keep giving them the microphone and paying their expenses for conferences. Just don't wear the scarf if they demand it.

Also, note that as soon as she removed the scarf, the cleric looked the other way and continued to talk to the "wall". Typical Muslim male asshole/fundi behavior.

[AndrewV69]

Thanks for the responses people. I think I have a better handle on Haley et al now.

(who am I kidding. Fuck me if I understand humans)

Indeed.

“Why we do the things we do” seems to be a rather obscure and problematic question with no shortage of answers, many of which are likely to be rather short of the mark. I at least tend to sympathize with the argument that much of what we do is on auto-pilot – I, of course, being the “only living boy in New York” – such that it is maybe less a case of Trivers’ Deceit and Self-Deception in Human Life than one of so much happening underneath the hood.

Trivers and Dawkins were directly responsible for my interest in sociobiology, which might be old hat now, but it was huge when it came out in the mid-70s.

I also heard a bit about him when I did a stint in Jamaica. Bit of a wild and crazy guy in his personal life apparently. I had no idea he lived there up till then. From your 1st. link. I pretty well agree except we all must have met people who simply will never fit the bill:

We are all potential murderers, alcoholics, rapists, creatures of sin. Men and woman who want to be, to feel their individuality, but who do not have the trick of it. Most of them succumb and live out their lives in a kind of twilight stupor.

I beg to differ only in the sense that some are more likely to be so than others.

[windy]

If you read the article you'll also see that she mentions only one speaker showing an understanding of the issues - Maryam Namazie, someone who has never joined in the FTB bullying tactics and who remains firmly an ally of Dawkins.

Maryam is the only one there who is sensible and who brings up REAL issues of theocratic sexism. The other bloggers there are just attention seeking missiles who exaggerate and/or make it all about themselves. Their tales of woe are contrived, and indulged in, states of victimhood.

I wouldn't say she's the only one, Mano Singham is also good, and some of the newer bloggers show promise... for example, Yemmynisting has some interesting things to say about the soldier's murder in London:

I was perplexed as to how a Nigerian would claim British soldiers are killing Muslims and women in his land but then it dawned on me that he was not talking about Nigeria, He was referring to Afghanistan, Iraq and other war torn Islamic countries. To this British born man of Nigerian origin, his land was not Nigeria; his homeland is the Muslims headquarters of the world. His adopted religion has totally erased his nationality, his identity and his history. Religion has taken firm hold in his deluded, sick brain.

Since she's also from Nigeria I suppose it's A-plus-approved for her to say that, but is it colonialist othering when I quote it? :think:

[jjbinx007]

Fogg's tweet with the linked article has been RT'd by PeeZus -wonder if he actually read it?

Only 3 RTs and 2 favs after 4hrs (and one of those was from a bot) and no replies at all.

Interesting. It's almost as if they SJWs don't actually care about social justice.

[zenbabe]

I cannot blame the conference coordinators for the behavior of the attendees but this was also a downright surreal experience for both me and my blind friend. Lots of people approached us but, with very few exceptions, they talked to our dogs and not to us humans. A lot of people asked our dog's names but not ours. Those who actually engaged us in conversation talked only about dogs.

Damn. The amount of cluelessness displayed by the attendees is quite amazing. The ONLY benetfit of attending a conference like this is to meet people and talk to them in person. And it's pretty much the normal procedure is that you meet someone, do the introdution, do a little chit chat, ask the obvious questions and if you end up in a nice conversation you continue otherwise, terminate the conversation by "needing to pick up some coffee/juice/cookie/whatever".

Conferences are for meeting, greeting, networking, and socializing. Talking to dogs and ignoring the owners is not socializing. It's the opposite.

Even I as a slymepitter know this kind of stuff.

The whole article sparked up my compassion. It didn't strike me as self-pitying, was presented in a "just the facts" sort of manner, but it hurt to read and consider his overall experience. He and his friend had to hear coffee being poured before they realized there was free coffee available, for example (and on the second day!). And then they had to shout out randomly for someone to help them get some, which (I imagine) must be an action of last resort for them. Creature comforts were ignored, let alone the ability to fully enjoy the speakers and discussions, and the fault lies squarely on Melody's shoulders. He apparently did what he could to bring awareness of his needs to her and was ignored. And she had the gall to cry when he was finally able to tell her of his experience, by doing so making it "all about her" instead of about him and his friend.

This person and his blind friend were far more ostracized than JV and Karla.

I don't blame him for defending Rebecca. She showed him kindness when so painfully few did, his loyalty is an understandable consequence.

[franc]

Biggest difference with Elevatorgate is that while others just talk - he does. And gets under the skin of all the right people. He deserves more credit than just common smarmy disdain from theoretical baboon watchers.

What the fuck does he do that is any different than they do?

{entitled North American parpage deleted}

He does more than you do. At least outside of your own autohagiography.

You made one post. New Media Douchebags.

It was OK.

But, BFD. Your contributions are a pimple on Becky's nipple. Quite contrary to your self-blabvertising. And your Pavlovian attacks on me show it. Entitled White North American disease. It deserves clinical study. Coloured North Americans don't succumb in my experience.

"i-think, therefore i-am" -- Welch, independent freethinker, smiter of uppity Queen's english contrarians

[franc]

Precisely. Lots of people *do* things, but the "toss a hand grenade in the room" approach is not something that works when it's SOP. Getting attention is great, but what do you do afterwards. Elevatorgate is solid at getting attention, but he goes so far off the rails that people stop listening to him, because parsing the good from the WTF starts taking too much effort.

You know what shits me? Armchair commentariat. Shit down my throat all you like, but I at least made the effort to speak to EG prior to casting judgement.

And you compare him to baboons.

You are a self-absorbed clown.

[SenorBeagle]

Caught up again, and shit, Abbie,that's not a nice situation. You have my condolences.

I'm pretty sure the world will end up regretting John's clumsy ass falling off that ladder far more than he ever will.

All I can see now in the outline of the bruise is the silhouette of Homer Simpson's head.

I see an IRA balaclava...

That's the beauty of Welch's ass. You see in it only what you bring yourself. It's like looking into the face of God.

Welch's ass is the Dark Side Cave. Or possibly Ghost Rider's penitence stare.

[EdwardGemmer]

It's amazing that a "room full of experts on privilege" ignored a group of blind people. What hope do us plebians have of ever understanding this issue?

[Apples]

Jen "Vegan Donut" McCreight retweeted this on Monday:

When you click through to the article, however, you learn that 1) according to officials the shooting (off-duty cop shooting perp) occurred outside the PP but apparently had nothing to do with it, and that 2) the other "act of violence" was a dude vandalizing a PP in Bloomington when it was closed and nobody was there.

Now, anti-choice violence is despicable and I *ahem* denounce it unequivocally. But like the flap about harassment at conferences - I can't see how you do anyone, least of all potential patients, any favors when you create an exaggerated impression of danger and violence to bolster your political narrative.

[Lsuoma]

The #vaculamustdenounce twitter hashtag was funny for a while, but it's getting ruined by Vacula spamming it to death.
Vacula, it's meant to be for jokes.
You are just not funny enough! :shifty:

Nobody who is as narcissistic as Vacula can ever be funny. Laughable, yes; funny, no.

[Aneris]

I find it interesting, that Stephanie Zvan goes to Justin Vacula's Twitter page, screencaps conversations and places them on her blog. You can tell that from the background image that shows through. PZ Myers, of course, has no trouble in reporting on a conversation of others, either (as we already know). On this side of the fence, we already know that public conversations are public. Practially everyone comments on anything else, whether it's from their blog shouted over the net, or directly in the comment sections.

But wait a minute. Wasn't looking at public tweets some sort of harassment? Or even terrorism, according to Ophelia Benson. Her commentariat never appeared as having any reservation about her judgment. Stephanie Zvan seconded that motion. In these moments, I wish we had documented the direct quotes from them, for backup (if you find their statements please add them)

[Lsuoma]

Is it me or is this demand that Vacula denounce harassment a bit like the demands that Glenn Beck deny that he raped and murdered a girl in 1990?

To me it is more like the idea that every time there is an Islamist terrorist attack we need to ask each individual Muslim to personally disavow themselves from it.

Plus they KNOW that Vacula can't resist engaging with anyone who mentions his name in public.

[Lsuoma]

Wow!
Melody Hensley is getting some kicking in the following article written by a blind attendee of WISC 2103

http://www.hofstader.com/invisible_blind_man

After the conference ended, I stood with Shelley in the hallway. We told her about our experience at the conference and she dragged Melody over to us so we could tell her our story directly. Then, we experienced first hand the words of privilege and the total ignorance, a willful ignorance as I had, six weeks earlier, offered to help her with these issues and our outrage only grew.

Melody tried the oldest ablest argument in the book when she said, "I know how it's like to be disabled because I once broke my ankle and couldn't go upstairs." I say, "I once dressed up as a nun for Halloween but that doesn't give me the experience of a Catholic woman."

Then, as we described the constant insults we endured, Melody tried to sound sympathetic (a bit too late) and then she started to cry. I felt bad but also realized that, when I got to my room on Friday and Saturday nights, after spending time at the conference, that I wanted to cry too.

The writer is clearly a friend of the Skepchicks, but the description of Hensleys organizational skills leave me, well not surprised in the least.

He throws in some criticism of Lindsays 'privilege' at the end but I think the obvious thing that Lindsay can be charged with is promoting an incompetent like Melody Hensley far above her ability.

I read the emphasized bit, and all I can think of, in the light of the rest of the report, is "manipulative cunt." (Actually, my first thought was "manipulative bitch" but I don't want to be sexist.)

[AbsurdWalls]

I cannot blame the conference coordinators for the behavior of the attendees but this was also a downright surreal experience for both me and my blind friend. Lots of people approached us but, with very few exceptions, they talked to our dogs and not to us humans. A lot of people asked our dog's names but not ours. Those who actually engaged us in conversation talked only about dogs.

Damn. The amount of cluelessness displayed by the attendees is quite amazing. The ONLY benetfit of attending a conference like this is to meet people and talk to them in person. And it's pretty much the normal procedure is that you meet someone, do the introdution, do a little chit chat, ask the obvious questions and if you end up in a nice conversation you continue otherwise, terminate the conversation by "needing to pick up some coffee/juice/cookie/whatever".

Conferences are for meeting, greeting, networking, and socializing. Talking to dogs and ignoring the owners is not socializing. It's the opposite.

Even I as a slymepitter know this kind of stuff.

The whole article sparked up my compassion. It didn't strike me as self-pitying, was presented in a "just the facts" sort of manner, but it hurt to read and consider his overall experience. He and his friend had to hear coffee being poured before they realized there was free coffee available, for example (and on the second day!). And then they had to shout out randomly for someone to help them get some, which (I imagine) must be an action of last resort for them. Creature comforts were ignored, let alone the ability to fully enjoy the speakers and discussions, and the fault lies squarely on Melody's shoulders. He apparently did what he could to bring awareness of his needs to her and was ignored. And she had the gall to cry when he was finally able to tell her of his experience, by doing so making it "all about her" instead of about him and his friend.

This person and his blind friend were far more ostracized than JV and Karla.

I don't blame him for defending Rebecca. She showed him kindness when so painfully few did, his loyalty is an understandable consequence.

Since when is "defending" Rebecca for doing the right thing a blameworthy offense? She has done some bad dishonest things to try to achieve her (questionable) objectives. That doesn't make her a monster.

Trophy: The blame also rests on anybody who noticed what was going on and didn't try to get things sorted. So many SJWs there and nobody managed to get these issues fixed?