Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[cunt]

Told you it was crappy!

Now if you would only admit the same thing about your meaningless throwaway faux-edgy one-liners here that make up the vast majority of your posts.

lol, what? You think i'd have a problem admitting that most, if not all of my posts, are meaningless throwaway garbage? I don't have a problem admitting that at all. I fully admit it, and they're only one liners because i'm too fucking lazy and useless to even bother writing faux edgy paragraphs. Also I don't preview them.

Oh, and don't get me wrong about the photoshops. Some of them are great, and if you look back you'll see that I wasn't specifically criticising yours as especially bad. The ones that are great though are usually the ones that are satirising some aspect either FTB culture or highlighting the hypocrisy of some of the bloggers. The shit that really just hinges on how ridiculous you can make people look in photoshop should be called out for what it is. Lame. Guess what, I usually don't do that because I know how long it takes for people to make them.

Cunt seems to have been going through a pissy/ranting phase lately. Quite alien to his early days here. I don't mind. Still funny with good outlooks.

Pissy? Moi? I know I have and that's because i'm just not enjoying posting here so much lately. When things get serious, and non-drama, I often find myself agreeing more with the feminist side than a lot of the counter-arguments that people post on the slymepit. The people at FTB can be massive hypocrites and self-righteous dickheads without always being wrong about everything.

Actually, I was thinking of doing myself a favour and IP blocking the site for a couple of weeks. Just to see if I really give a shit about any of this anymore or (way more likely) am just addicted to it. Really though, that can wait until after Justin in Ireland.

[Kareem]

Stefunny Inzvanity still can hazzing teh big angries (http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdiamo ... -civility/):

Providing a forum for more abuse to go unchallenged while simultaneously telling us how to behave.

Hmm. A bad thing apparently, when it is someone other than FfTB/Skepchick doing it.

Steve Snyder made his comment. It sat for two hours with me and one other person having down-voted it. I mentioned privately to someone that it felt like crap to watch it sit there unchallenged. That person made the comment as “Guest”. I then blogged about it. Then it got down-voted.

Yes, yes, rather like Carriers 6000+ downvotes versus -600 upvotes means it's all just haters hating with no valid points -- or in this instance, the lack of haters hating correctly meaning not enough people came to my defense by hating correctly. WAHHH!

Nor did JT fucking concur. JT’s statement was, “What? Uh, I dunno. Not worth my attention.”

So, of course, JT was just lying ... because; just because.

I don’t want a blog post. I don’t want more words. I want the comment section in which I am now being abused by several people from the slime pit because I objected to the abuse of one person being allowed to stand to be dealt with. I’m done with words. I’m done with disclaimers. I want action.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Silence the heathens! Silence them now! Blasphemers! Infidels! Burn; burn; burn!

Steffy Zvan is a pathological control freak. Look at the spineless clown JT grovelling at her feet, licking her boots, flagellating himself. It’s not enough for Madame Z. What a nauseating person she is. She is the most abhorrent of the baboon brigade.

I almost feel sorry for him. He went out of his way to call us non-humans but is still getting shitted on (although some seems to be standing up for him). Past friends or not, there's a time when you have to tell people to fuck off, even if it's just until they get their head clear.

[AndrewV69]

Very recently there was a move by politicians in Iceland to ban online pornography (offline porn is already illegal)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ma ... ernet-porn

The left-wing government, headed by the worlds first openly lesbian prime minister, lost a general election before they could push through the ban (they had already banned strip clubs and introduced the swedish model of anti-prostitution laws to the country.)

From what I have observed there are consequences when society sets up constraints around biologically ordered expressions. When they are derived from ideological/religious inspired social constructs they appear to have some pretty negative effects.

All kinds of examples abound about the relative costs. From Catholic Priests to the Mutaween in Saudi Arabia.

*shrug*

In any event do not be surprised at the increase of sex related crimes such as rape if they are successful. There are apparently enough precedents for that to be predictable. See South Korea and Bulgaria for examples on both sides of the coin.

I am kind of hoping they go ahead with it. They would serve as a good control/contrast with S. Korea for example which also has a largely homogenous society (accounting for the variances in between their relative socioeconomic strata should not be too difficult) ... I am sorry for the needless suffering of the victims just to satisfy my curiosity though.

Anyway, to be clear I would expect some outcomes to be dampened because of the interconnected social relations of a generally homogenous society with many overlapping genetic relationships. Otherwise they should match the S. Korea experience.

[Gumby]

Told you it was crappy!

Now if you would only admit the same thing about your meaningless throwaway faux-edgy one-liners here that make up the vast majority of your posts.

lol, what? You think i'd have a problem admitting that most, if not all of my posts, are meaningless throwaway garbage? I don't have a problem admitting that at all. I fully admit it, and they're only one liners because i'm too fucking lazy and useless to even bother writing faux edgy paragraphs. Also I don't preview them.

Oh, and don't get me wrong about the photoshops. Some of them are great, and if you look back you'll see that I wasn't specifically criticising yours as especially bad. The ones that are great though are usually the ones that are satirising some aspect either FTB culture or highlighting the hypocrisy of some of the bloggers. The shit that really just hinges on how ridiculous you can make people look in photoshop should be called out for what it is. Lame. Guess what, I usually don't do that because I know how long it takes for people to make them.

You know what? I agree with everything you said here.

[Wonderist]

Some additional commentary, I haven't yet read yet.
Team Twitter Feminism is not happy

And summing up again, for guests and newcomers.

The name Team Feminism and Anti-Feminists are terms used conjured out of thin air by Marcotte and allies. For the onlookers: no, there is no Team Feminism and there is also no Team Anti-Feminsim (at least not here). That's Marcottes critical thinking impaired religious mindset showing through.

In reality, there are conflicts between gender feminism and equity feminism. PZ Myers and Co. endorses radical/gender feminism, and sites like I Blame the Patriarchy (just check his blog entry). When you google the site directly, it also shows a direct link to the S.C.U.M Manifesto (Society for Cutting Up Men). In the most charitable interpretation, they find that acceptable satire (but our photoshops or "we love vacula" into their image is ‒ as we all know ‒ reprehensible and outrageous). The reading list of I Blame the Patriarchy has Andrea Dworkin on top, also a radical feminist. There is some controversy these views, and they aren't between Anti-feminsts and Team Feminism as noted in this piece of psychology today.

Just to add on to that, there are a couple of other differences between the two sides.

One side believes that equality will occur when we as a society are able to treat individuals as individuals, the other side believes that the inherent bias can never be overcome and we need to enact laws and social customs to counteract said bias. (For what it's worth, I sit somewhere in the middle of this particular topic)

One side believes that gender differences are a combination of biological and cultural/social forces, the other side believes that they're strictly cultural/social.

One side believes that these forces should not be prescriptive on individuals, the other side increasingly believes that they are.

That last point is the irony of the situation, and the crux of much of the conflict. There are many of us who are involved in these "anti-feminism" groups and communities, not because we're opposed to the idea of equality, but because we believe that gender feminists are either A. opposed to the idea of equality, or B. really really fucking BAD at equality. My experience is that it hasn't always gone this way, however over the last few years the notion of this all-powerful "toxic male culture" has spread throughout much of 3rd wave feminism, and that's where the problem stems from.

And yes, the inherent sexism of the gender feminists gets loud and angry responses. How couldn't it? It pisses people off when you tell them that they think and feel things that they don't think and feel.

This ^^^ is a bit of an older comment, but I really want to comment on it or I'll forget.

Karmakin, I could quibble with a couple of your points near the beginning, but instead I think it would be better to say that overall I think you made some excellent distinctions, especially in the way you put them as tips for an outsider to come to some understanding about the conflict as an ongoing phenomenon. Your last brief paragraph hits it out of the park in my eyes.

[Gumby]

Um, block quote fail. oh well.

[ERV]

http://i.imgur.com/F6EPDPK.jpg

Glad I wasnt drinking anything because I did an immediate 'PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!LOLOLOLOLOLOL!'

[Wonderist]

Serious question. Why do MRAs give a fuck if men throw better than women or not? What relevance is it?

Because radfem postulates that differences are a matter of patriarchal society/training and discrimination against girls and women. They are naturally and vocally opposed to any scientific line of inquiry or fact that casts doubts on their claims.

Take math, which is far more important than throwing. Boys (population) are, at a young age, better at math. Neuroscience has shown this through MRI analysis (which now so common and accepted that it's even in WebMD...). The part of the brain that gets to more abstract math functions starts to mature four years earlier in boys (about 8) than girls (about 12). Girls (population) catch up by college. But in late grade school and HS they're behind.

This has consequences beyond poor grades. For example, here in America, we start hitting girls (population) with algebra and pre-algebra about two-years too early. Which, sadly, causes the girls (population) problems and turns many off from math for the rest of their lives. Which, in turn, trickles down to college majors and career opportunities.

Another older but good comment I don't want to forget.

I hadn't heard that hypothesis before, Tribble. It at least has some degree of plausibility to it. Do you have any links or references to the studies (or even a science magazine article or something) which support it? I'd be quite interested.

[justinvacula]

I leave Philadelphia at 9:00PM local time and will arrive in Dublin around 9AM Dublin time. My flight leaving to Philadelphia was cancelled, so I am now in a rental car with two strangers en route to Philadelphia in order to catch the flight to Dublin that hopefully will not be delayed!

Comment here if you would like:
http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... e-smiling/

[bovarchist]

I don't really like Stephen Colbert anymore.

[welch]

It seriously takes about five minutes before someone unearths some shit they're doing which completely contradicts wtf they've been saying.

Which to me isn't a big deal in most cases. People are never 100% consistent. The big deal to me is the fact they won't own up to what they would call stupid gaffes or hypocrisy in other people. They don't get to angrily lecture me about my shortcomings when they display the exact same shortcomings... but pretend their shortcomings don't exist.

Exactly. It's not that they make mistakes or what have you. It's that when they have those mistakes/slip-ups pointed out to them, they make damned sure to go to the ends of the earth to explain why their mistakes are okay, it's only YOURS that are eeeeeeevil.

[welch]

http://i.imgur.com/BQc31zG.jpg
:think:

What? I assume you posted that because you think she's wrong.

1. There would still mental illness.
2. There is also the expanding social & iffy legal definition of rape (at least in the US). On the latter, if you and your wife opt to go to the bar and get hammered, and then have sex, legally you have raped her. On the former, as an example there is this prank in Japan, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kancho that has nothing to do with the hatred of anyone... well I'm just going to let you read it.

OMG, Kancho! I haven't read that since Azrael stopped posting "I am a japanese school teacher" http://gaijinchronicles.com/category/ar ... l-teacher/

[welch]

IF what Loftus says is true - that many (most) of the chapters are just tweaked old blog posts, this is shocking, to say the least. Remember, we are dealing with a book that took six years to get published. It is, however, rather reminiscent of his (and his fellow conference circuit gravy-train riders) attitude towards conference attendees - 'to hell with writing a new talk, I'll just use my old one!')

That's one of the reasons I support all conferences having a speaker rotation period of at least three years. Further, no speaker would be allowed to use the same talk they'd given, at the conference, in the past, not even updated, unless the talk was specifically requested. I might even stretch that rule to any conference.

I've actually worked on rules like that. It creates some squawking from some speakers, but most get it, and you get more interesting sessions.

But if all the speaking options are invite-only, fuck, who cares, you're only going to get the same shit anyway.

[Dick Strawkins]

I leave Philadelphia at 9:00PM local time and will arrive in Dublin around 9AM Dublin time. My flight leaving to Philadelphia was cancelled, so I am now in a rental car with two strangers en route to Philadelphia in order to catch the flight to Dublin that hopefully will not be delayed!

Comment here if you would like:
http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... e-smiling/

You got into a rental car with two strangers?

Guys, don't do that!

http://i.imgur.com/cxqPJAz.jpg

[Metalogic42]

Someone mentioned earlier that CFI is taking its sweet time putting up WiS 2 videos. Well, their YouTube channel now has two up, with (I'm assuming) more on the way.

[Wonderist]

Have they lost their mojo? They went after Grothe with a vengeance, but realized JREF as an org didn't give a fuck for them, or their drama. They attempted to force their will onto the SCA (a lot of people forget about that episode, where they attempted to fuck a new appointee out of HER position, because she was associated with the Republican party). The SCA effectively gave them the bird, with some impressive foiling, Edwina even took time, to engage the fuckwits. CFI on the other hand, they thought had left their back door open, they were sewn through it, and were regularly sucking at it's conference teet, so much so that they assumed they had leverage necessary to execute their will.

In any other realm they would recognize they are not the power brokers, they imagined themselves to be. Their load is well and truly blown, with every ounce of wailing, gnashing of teeth, rage tears, and threats to flounce the party they could muster, the CFI, the single org they thought they had sewn up, told them to take their games elsewhere, in very diplomatic terms of course. The "CFI have betrayed us!" blags are predictable, but empty. Greta, beccy and co will be lobbying for speaking gigs within the year, and if they aren't given, their will be more wailing about how CFI are marginalizing them.

SO who have they left, FFRF?, not a chance in hell, they are far too focused to engage with drama whores. SSA? Yes, why? because it's full of young minds looking for a cause that can be indoctrinated by the politics. what was the Jesuit saying about give me the boy, and I'll show you the man. Then there is AA, who i predict are going to be burned, badly. Silverman is not half as smart as he thinks he is, he's a political grease ball, but not very adept at it. Beware of Greeks bearing twitter followers AA.

Good summary analysis. Part of their problem is the echo chamber they have constructed over the years built an environment where they would be encouraged to start believing their own bullshit. This, of course, leads them to have a very over-inflated opinion of one's place in the grand scheme of things. What they are beginning to realize is just how easily shut down they are, which is something I am pleasantly surprised to see myself. CFI may well have been their last big chance to make a real inroad into the major organizations. It will be interesting to see what they do at this point as they begin to realize just how marginalized they are becoming. I would like to think that the Pyt played some part in this result coming about by keeping a public skeptical fire under their butts, so a big thanks to all you who have put in the time and miles over the long haul here.

It definitely did. It was never perfect (though nothing is, so that's no real criticism), but it did what no one else was doing for a *long* time. The metaphor of keeping a 'fire under our butts' is decent, but perhaps more significant would be a metaphor of 'keeping the fire alive' in the first place, not letting our hope die and complacency sink in. That's how I see it, anyway.

[welch]

And not to be 100% heterosexual...I've been hit on many times by gay guys but only once did a gay man touch me. He put his hand on my shoulder. It wasn't a big deal but I did grab his wrist and move his hand off me. I guess it could be hard for a gay guy trying to hit on someone when you don't know if they are gay too.

At least you didn't beat the gay guy to a pulp. I'm gay and don't like being touched or fondled without my consent. When I was younger and prettier (I was a hottie if I do say so myself), I had to beat off the men and women with a stick. Now that I'm middle-age and worn out, I don't have that problem. I have to pay people to molest me nowadays which is really sad if you think about it.

I see the problem. Next time you're beating someone off, use your hand.

[welch]

JT has another post up to win back the AngryZvan

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2013 ... are-jerks/

This post isn't as hefty as the previous one but is structured similarly, 90% *Erhmagad! Slimeybad!* and the rest, well, the other 10% is basically that too. I feel a bit bad for JT, he's so naive to think that these people won't throw him under the bus in a heartbeat to get what they want.

He has a facebook status update saying:

I just don't get it. I'm using English words with English speakers, and yet somehow some people are still hearing the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Is it opposite week?

Not at all JT, you're just a pawn in their game. Your words don't matter, if they don't control you, you're the enemy and their dramapawn.

I for one am enjoying it. JT is constantly sucking up to all sides at once, and if it bites him in the ass occasionally good. I'm almost surprised he hasn't grown an extra mouth, just so he can suck up more.

[another lurker]

Told you it was crappy!

Now if you would only admit the same thing about your meaningless throwaway faux-edgy one-liners here that make up the vast majority of your posts.

lol, what? You think i'd have a problem admitting that most, if not all of my posts, are meaningless throwaway garbage? I don't have a problem admitting that at all. I fully admit it, and they're only one liners because i'm too fucking lazy and useless to even bother writing faux edgy paragraphs. Also I don't preview them.

Oh, and don't get me wrong about the photoshops. Some of them are great, and if you look back you'll see that I wasn't specifically criticising yours as especially bad. The ones that are great though are usually the ones that are satirising some aspect either FTB culture or highlighting the hypocrisy of some of the bloggers. The shit that really just hinges on how ridiculous you can make people look in photoshop should be called out for what it is. Lame. Guess what, I usually don't do that because I know how long it takes for people to make them.

Cunt seems to have been going through a pissy/ranting phase lately. Quite alien to his early days here. I don't mind. Still funny with good outlooks.

Pissy? Moi? I know I have and that's because i'm just not enjoying posting here so much lately. When things get serious, and non-drama, I often find myself agreeing more with the feminist side than a lot of the counter-arguments that people post on the slymepit. The people at FTB can be massive hypocrites and self-righteous dickheads without always being wrong about everything.

Actually, I was thinking of doing myself a favour and IP blocking the site for a couple of weeks. Just to see if I really give a shit about any of this anymore or (way more likely) am just addicted to it. Really though, that can wait until after Justin in Ireland.

One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit. Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted. Most people are rather confident of their ability to recognize bullshit and to avoid being taken in by it. So the phenomenon has not aroused much deliberate concern. We have no clear understanding of what bullshit is, why there is so much of it, or what functions it serves. And we lack a conscientiously developed appreciation of what it means to us. In other words, as Harry Frankfurt writes, "we have no theory."

[welch]

The law also criminalises women who work together and share an apartment, effectively classifying them as each other's pimps.

Quite a few sex workers in Sweden have spoken out about how the law has negatively affected them:

7D7nOh57-I8

If you accept the premise that the motivation is hatred of men then perhaps things begin to make more sense. It also explains the disparity between the stated reasons and the actual effects. The sex workers are just so much collateral damage.

If memory serves I once tried to point out that FadFems like Catharine MacKinnon were dangerous because of her work in attempting to change the laws and her overall influence towards that end.

(do not be surprised if welsh goes off into full baboon mode again now that I have mentioned MacKinnon)

Anyway, if you look at Sweden and other places where the RadFems like Mackinnon have been successful, you have some idea of how they actually work out. I doubt that this is unintentional or that they were unaware of the likely results either.

If memory serves, you tried to point out that Dworkin is also dangerous. Welch pointed out that being dead strongly limits Dworkin's danger factor. Many people try to change the laws, you seemed to have an overinflated opinion of MAckinnon's overall influence, which today is non-existent and even in her heyday was far less than her fanbase (or her detractors) claimed.

Andrew is such a dear. If you disagree with him too much, he calls you a baboon and runs up to his room, slams the door and plays linkin' park so loud you can't hear him crying.

He's still pissed that I dared to check his sources. Whatever. Mckinnon was good at getting press, but in terms of getting anything actually done, she was not so good. Andrew however, loves the fuck out of her, because she's some of the best ammo he has. When she finally dies, he's going to be in mourning longer than he was when Dworkin kicked off. (another one with a lot of thunder, very little lightning.)

[AndrewV69]

If memory serves, you tried to point out that Dworkin is also dangerous. Welch pointed out that being dead strongly limits Dworkin's danger factor. Many people try to change the laws, you seemed to have an overinflated opinion of MAckinnon's overall influence, which today is non-existent and even in her heyday was far less than her fanbase (or her detractors) claimed.

You might have a point about Dworkin in particular as some young people go "who" when you mention her. However, as I recall MacKinnon allowed that she was influenced by her. And I would not discount Dworkin on the basis that she is dead. There are plenty of dead people who despite being deceased are still influential.

I will leave it up to you to supply your own examples of people who have influenced you personally, directly or otherwise who have long since shuffled off this mortal coil.

As for the rest of it, I am reasonably certain that I will not have to work too hard to come up with an example of someone who proclaims as such about MacKinnon, and is also in a position to influence other people for example a Professor with students, never mind people like Judith Butler.

However, in the end I fail to see how I could make a case that would disprove your supposition without actual numbers (which I do not have).

We will have to agree to disagree. Or at least I will.

[cunt]

Kancho wouldn't qualify as rape in any western nations. That'd be sexual assault. Or maybe even just assault.

[AndrewV69]

Actually, I was thinking of doing myself a favour and IP blocking the site for a couple of weeks. Just to see if I really give a shit about any of this anymore or (way more likely) am just addicted to it. Really though, that can wait until after Justin in Ireland.

Ahahahaha! cunt comes out and admits he is addicted to the slymepit. So he is going to quit, right after he finishes that last case of gin.

[cunt]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said Andrew... Link JudgyBitch about it.

[Tribble]

http://i.imgur.com/F6EPDPK.jpg

That's pretty good. I was hoping someone would do "The Happy Plagiarist" and sub-title it "How to Write a Book by Copy/Paste."

[cunt]

Here's a good one from Andrews favourite website. Did you know that 13 year olds can be slutbag whores too? Most of them probably are. Did you know that if you find a de-motivational poster that somebody has photoshopped the words "jailbait" into that the girl is to blame? Well, let's get Judgy on these bitches.

http://judgybitch.com/2013/05/13/lolita ... new-thing/

[Gefan]

..."There is also homosexual pornography in which a man plays the "feminine" role of victim... There is lesbian pornography, with a woman assuming the "masculine" role of victimizing another woman... But whatever the gender of the participants, all pornography is an imitation of the male-female, conqueror-victim paradigm, and almost all of it actually portrays or implies enslaved woman and masterful male." - Gloria Steinem

I wonder if any of the Pit's gay contingent would be willing to critique the analysis of gay porn by the (ostensibly) heterosexual Ms Steinem.

[AndrewV69]

P.S.

As an exercise try tracing the influence(s) that shaped the "toxic male culture" trope to the source and see what you come up with. Let me know what you come up with if you fell inclined to share.

[Tribble]

Of note: the physical contact I hate the most is someone touching my belly. This to me would be way more distressing than someone grabbing my cock.

Even Ali needs special dispensations if she wants to try that shit!

Ah, so I'm not the only one. I feel much better.

[Jan Steen]

http://i.imgur.com/F6EPDPK.jpg

That's pretty good. I was hoping someone would do "The Happy Plagiarist" and sub-title it "How to Write a Book by Copy/Paste."

Reviewers haven't seen the actual book, as far as I can tell. We have to wait and see if in the published version it is explicitly stated that several chapters were previously published on Pharyngula. If that is clearly indicated with chapter and verse then there are no grounds to accuse Myers of self-plagiary.

[AndrewV69]

Here's a good one from Andrews favourite website. Did you know that 13 year olds can be slutbag whores too? Most of them probably are. Did you know that if you find a de-motivational poster that somebody has photoshopped the words "jailbait" into that the girl is to blame? Well, let's get Judgy on these bitches.

http://judgybitch.com/2013/05/13/lolita ... new-thing/

Correction. Believe it or not Ally Fogg is my fave right now. http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/

Well worth reading. Highly recommended. If you have read him then do. it. now. cunt.

[cunt]

AndrewV69s new avatar gif shouldn't loop.

[Tribble]

All male sexuality must be carefully regulated and monitored and criminalized where possible. So it does not matter to them if you are gay. You are still a man.

If you can understand that then you should not be surprised at their hatred of m-f trans either.

Wachs her name said I was a gay MRA.

One of my best friends, now deceased, was a tranny. What do these femi-Nazis have against m-f trannies?

I've read some crazy theories that boil down to it's some sort of plot to infiltrate female space. It's sounds like delusion and paranoia and I'm making stupid shit up, but here we are:

"All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves .... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive." Janice Raymond -- The Transsexual Empire.

I personally think Janice Raymond is an enormous shit-stain even for gender feminists.

Anyway, there is more. And it's not all gender feminists. And it's not all as bat-shit-crazy as that. But there is a lot.

[Wonderist]

The thinking of male supporters as "allies" rather than "feminists" is one of the defining features of radical feminism.
It's always something to watch out for in the speech of anyone claiming to be a feminist because once you see them using that terminology then you can be fairly sure about their position on the feminist spectrum - and about their position on a lot of related points.
Radical feminists tend to share a lot of political viewpoints and language that sets them apart from those who view feminism as a more egalitarian stance; for example radical feminists are almost entirely anti-porn (and thus anti sex work); they view the patriarchy as a more tangeable entity that controls society in a conscious manner; they use terms like mansplaining, privilege, PIV sex, etc - many of which seem to be creeping into the SJW vernacular.

My major problem with the FTB feminists is that their particular form of feminism veers wildly between a kind of egalitarian sex-positive feminism at one moment, to a rad-fem, anti porn, PIV-negative mode the next. It has no internal consistency whatsoever - but I guess it is the only solution that will allow them to dismiss PZ's "lets do the sex thing later" performance at Skepticon, and yet still support his claim that skeptic men treat women as disposable fucktoys at conferences.


As for Steersman's point about whether Peezus calling that woman a 'slut' is misogynistic - we have to ask ourselves whether it is fair to judge PZ using the same criterion that he judges others. I think that it is fair to do so. He is certainly a misogynist according to his own method of labeling others.

The bolded part can be explained when you realize that some types of 'feminism' really are just a power-grab for women. This kind of ideological inconsistency dogs lots of third-wave feminism or at least it's online and activist organization components. Many of them seem to say in not-so-many words " We can 'slut-walk' - but it's not enough to be decent and not shame us. We also insist you don't 'ogle' or 'objectify' us with your male gaze."

Basically it's the demonization of male sexuality by a purportedly 'sex positive' movement that is mystifying. With the avowed rad-fems its somewhat understandable -when you consider women to be brainwashed by patriarchy, when you consider all PIV sex to be rape, etc. it makes sense. Ironically they are more ideologically consistent.

A lot like (some) fundies versus Catholics or 'liberal' Christians, as well. Some fundies are far more ideologically consistent than what the fundies refer to as 'cafeteria Christians' who pick and choose what to believe. There are a lot of parallels between ideological variations of feminism and ideological variations of religions.

I've had this thought many times: The biggest mistake dogmatic feminism made was in trying to invade the skeptical movement. For a long time skeptics basically left feminism alone, many considering it either harmless or (like myself) actually identifying as feminist themselves. Now they've got our skeptical attention and we're starting to see that it's not necessarily as benign or beneficial as we thought. I still technically consider myself feminist in the equity/egalitarian sense, but I'm much more cautious and skeptical about it than I was previously. As for dogmatic feminism, I'm actively on the lookout for it now. It's a tough one, but I gotta say that religion was tougher, and dogmatic feminism is almost certainly on its way out in the coming future, like religion is currently.

[KiwiInOz]

http://i.imgur.com/ihZ8TiC.jpg

Just seen this.
I think they've solved the harrassment problem.

How can they tell?

http://www.threedonia.com/wp-content/up ... poster.jpg

And I'm not checking ahead to see whether I've been ninja'd. It's still funny. So fuck you. Fuck you all.

[Dick Strawkins]

http://i.imgur.com/F6EPDPK.jpg

That's pretty good. I was hoping someone would do "The Happy Plagiarist" and sub-title it "How to Write a Book by Copy/Paste."

Reviewers haven't seen the actual book, as far as I can tell. We have to wait and see if in the published version it is explicitly stated that several chapters were previously published on Pharyngula. If that is clearly indicated with chapter and verse then there are no grounds to accuse Myers of self-plagiary.

The review by Loftus seems to suggest that the book is presented as an original work rather than a 'Best of Pharyngula' anthology.

http://www.amazon.com/review/R30LW6Z14W ... deID=&tag=

That being said, I have some problems with it. In the first place, I did a little research and found that nearly half of the chapters can be found almost word for word as blog posts of his with the same title. No doubt there are a few others. Some of them have probably been given a different title, like chapter 13) "Happy Easter!" which was originally a blog post of his titled "Sunday Sacrilege: The Silliest Story Ever Told." I have been a semi-casual reader of PZ Myers's blogs and after reading through this book there was little new for me. So I for one, am disappointed.

Almost word for word, sometimes with a different intro or ending, and perhaps a few other very small changes, here are the chapters, er blog posts, that I found online with the same titles:

4) The Great Desecration
11) The Top Ten Reasons Religion is Like Pornography
13) Happy Easter! is from an original post titled "Sunday Sacrilege: The Silliest Story Ever Told."
17) Imagine No Heaven
18) Daughters of Eve
19) Prometheus's Sin
20) So Alone
21) One Nation Free of Gods
22) An Embryo is Not a Person
23) The Courtier's Reply
28) We're Happier out of a Straightjacket Than in One
31) The Active Hand
32) The Proper Reverence Due Those Who Have Gone Before
33) Niobrara
34) We Stand Awed at the Heights Our People Have Achieved.

If someone is putting out a series of blog posts as published book for a price, readers would want to know so they can make an informed choice before laying down the required money to read it. A publisher would most definitely want to know. They surely paid him a huge advance, probably in the tens of thousands of dollars. Did they know?

Second, this is not what I would call a researched book. He's mostly writing about letters and emails and blog posts that he's read. He's not writing anything that scholars would be interested in reading. He doesn't refer the reader to any books for further reading, nor does he offer any footnotes. When he does refer to a quote he doesn't tell us where it can be found, so we can't check the context of the quote.

Third, not very many of his chapters are within his area of expertise. PZ's expertise is in the field of evolutionary developmental biology. PZ however, writes about, well, nearly anything he finds ridiculous. He usually doesn't even refer to experts in other fields of study when speaking on those topics. The fact is that PZ's expertise in one area doesn't transfer into the areas of politics, economics, philosophy, theology, ethics, or a number of others.

Fourth, he didn't expand on his original posts even when they required it. Take for instance his chapter on "The Courtier's Reply." It's nothing more than his most famous blog post. The amazing thing is that his post has received an immense amount of commentary. This would have been the perfect time to deal with his detractors, and yet he chose to do little more than merely copy his original blog post.

Fifth, this book isn't organized in any meaningful way, just one disjointed chapter after another. At least he could have organized the book by arranging it under different topical headlines.

I was surprised by Loftus' review. I genuinely didn't think PZ would go down the road of including so much old material.
So far I haven't seen any mention, in the prepublication publicity, of it being an anthology.

That said, there might be something on the final product that states it is an anthology.
If there isn't then PZ is going to get a hell of a lot of criticism (especially after his own criticism of Jonah Lehrer.)

[AndrewV69]

AndrewV69s new avatar gif shouldn't loop.

I am quite fond of it myself. If you consider the implications of the horse shitting you might change your mind though. :lol:

[Mykeru]

I am totally devastated

Oh come on. You know I'm late to that party.

[Pitchguest]

Pissy? Moi? I know I have and that's because i'm just not enjoying posting here so much lately. When things get serious, and non-drama, I often find myself agreeing more with the feminist side than a lot of the counter-arguments that people post on the slymepit. The people at FTB can be massive hypocrites and self-righteous dickheads without always being wrong about everything.

Actually, I was thinking of doing myself a favour and IP blocking the site for a couple of weeks. Just to see if I really give a shit about any of this anymore or (way more likely) am just addicted to it. Really though, that can wait until after Justin in Ireland.

Jesus Christ. Do yourself a favour and IP block the site now and stop being such a melodramatic attention whore.

[Deo Vacuus]

How soon until Cunt makes good on his threat to leave the Pit?

[Tribble]

Serious question. Why do MRAs give a fuck if men throw better than women or not? What relevance is it?

Because radfem postulates that differences are a matter of patriarchal society/training and discrimination against girls and women. They are naturally and vocally opposed to any scientific line of inquiry or fact that casts doubts on their claims.

Take math, which is far more important than throwing. Boys (population) are, at a young age, better at math. Neuroscience has shown this through MRI analysis (which now so common and accepted that it's even in WebMD...). The part of the brain that gets to more abstract math functions starts to mature four years earlier in boys (about 8) than girls (about 12). Girls (population) catch up by college. But in late grade school and HS they're behind.

This has consequences beyond poor grades. For example, here in America, we start hitting girls (population) with algebra and pre-algebra about two-years too early. Which, sadly, causes the girls (population) problems and turns many off from math for the rest of their lives. Which, in turn, trickles down to college majors and career opportunities.

Another older but good comment I don't want to forget.

I hadn't heard that hypothesis before, Tribble. It at least has some degree of plausibility to it. Do you have any links or references to the studies (or even a science magazine article or something) which support it? I'd be quite interested.

I homeschool and tried the whole "boys are girls are pretty much the same and since I could do XYZ at age (fill in blank)" so could my daughter. So I started her on a college-level (I got the books from the college bookstore where my wife's lab was at the time) pre-calculus at 12.

Total flame-out. Did not get the results I expected. Which resulted in much LOUD arguing and accusations flying around the house between slacker and parent-education-nazi-tyrant between myself and the child. So I took it up with a friend who who has professional expertise in the area and he told me I blowing it and that I was pushing too hard.

The core issue was, despite the fact the child is a high-IQ gifted-and-talented child, and that she could fight her way through it on an intellectual basis, she was, developmentally, quite ready, but would be in a couple of years or so... And it wasn't just that. He explained some other things as well. Basic developmental and gender differences I needed to understand.

Anyway, basic differences I can remember are:

Girls have better fine motor control. Girls have better language skills. Girls have better color vision (shades with a color family, like red or blue) and are less likely to suffer color blindness (distinguishing different colors). Girls brains are about six years ahead of boys brains in writing and language.

Boys have better math skills. ADHD effects boys & girls very differently. (My daughters are both ADHD and it was nothing like my nephew's ADHD.) Boys are the primary sufferers of dyslexia.

Even the brains themselves are very different. Men's brains have more grey matter, women's brains have more white matter. The structures, while analogous, are developed differently and women's brains are more organized than men's brains. I don't know how that impacts anything, I just found it striking. One of those odd facts you don't forget.

Many, but not all, of these differences tend to disappear over time. For example, the boys catch up in fine motor control during puberty. Girls seem to catch up in math later on. Women never lose their advantages in language.

It's all population based. Your individual performance may vary.

[Tony Parsehole]

http://wallpaperpassion.com/upload/4296 ... lpaper.jpg

Meh....Could be sexier.
http://weknowmemes.com/generator/upload ... 341338.jpg

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

I think this might explain why Steffy Zvan is all over JT's ass on this one, single comment crusade. It seemed so bizarre to me that she would get her fat cheeks all red and puffed over this, but it makes sense when you read the words below, taken from a description of panels at Skepchicon: she's suddenly realized that she has to talk about dealing with trolls in a few days, and came up with the idea of creating some shit that she could then steal and use to make her powerpoint slides. We are watching, Stef...

http://i.imgur.com/0eFwOop.png

[John Greg]

I think it is fascinating, and very entertaining, to watch Stefunny InZvanity on the JT blog thingy. She is simply proving to the world how truly offensive and disgusting she is:

Fuck off; fuck off;; fuck off; run your blog the way I tell you to; moderate who/what/when I tell you to, delete and ban who/what/when I tell you to.

Jesus, what a pathetic piece of shit. And it's still Greg Laden is my bum buddy all the way.

Yikes.

And as Welch points out, fuck me, but has there ever been such a kiss-ass poodle fucker as JT is? Extraordinary. Well, perhaps he'll be EB-Wachsed, and have to change his tune ... perhaps not.

[Tribble]

I leave Philadelphia at 9:00PM local time and will arrive in Dublin around 9AM Dublin time. My flight leaving to Philadelphia was cancelled, so I am now in a rental car with two strangers en route to Philadelphia in order to catch the flight to Dublin that hopefully will not be delayed!

Comment here if you would like:
http://www.skepticink.com/justinvacula/ ... e-smiling/

You're going to get raped by Schrodinger's Rapist(s). So beware of any comments about 'back door' or 'back seat.' That means they're ready to jump you...

[cunt]

How soon until Cunt makes good on his threat to leave the Pit?

After Justin in Ireland. So this weekend. Also wasn't a "threat" of anything, it was "i'm going to take a break for a couple weeks and see". Does wittle noobie have problems understanding words and reading?

[ConcentratedH2O, OM]

Mykeru and Walter Ego are clearly flirting. Get a room, guys.

Parsehole: amazing image.

[Dick Strawkins]

I think this might explain why Steffy Zvan is all over JT's ass on this one, single comment crusade. It seemed so bizarre to me that she would get her fat cheeks all red and puffed over this, but it makes sense when you read the words below, taken from a description of panels at Skepchicon: she's suddenly realized that she has to talk about dealing with trolls in a few days, and came up with the idea of creating some shit that she could then steal and use to make her powerpoint slides. We are watching, Stef...

http://i.imgur.com/0eFwOop.png

"Don't feed the trolls isn't always an effective strategy."

Or to put it another way:

"Feeding the trolls can be a very profitable strategy."

[Badger3k]

Hell, 98% of all labor is forced. Who the hell wants to swing a hammer all day?

Thor? :dance:

[Mykeru]

AndrewV69s new avatar gif shouldn't loop.

Here: This should distract you:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3699/9155 ... e63026.jpg

Don't wait until Dublin.

[BarnOwl]

First world problems:

It must be a very special kind of hell to sit next to po-faced Ophelia on a transatlantic flight, with her sighing and twitching and fidgeting and rummaging in her backpack and munching on her fucking snacks the whole time.

Good thing I don't have any transatlantic flights planned. ::shudders::

I saw a huge guy entering one of the buildings at work yesterday who looked exactly like Dillahunty. In fact, maybe it was Dillahunty.

[Tony Parsehole]

I think this might explain why Steffy Zvan is all over JT's ass on this one, single comment crusade. It seemed so bizarre to me that she would get her fat cheeks all red and puffed over this, but it makes sense when you read the words below, taken from a description of panels at Skepchicon: she's suddenly realized that she has to talk about dealing with trolls in a few days, and came up with the idea of creating some shit that she could then steal and use to make her powerpoint slides. We are watching, Stef...

http://i.imgur.com/0eFwOop.png

Because Steffy Zvan is so successful at fighting trolls she just has to share her secret...
Next week, "Tips On Being Happy And Likeable" with Morrissey.

[Tony Parsehole]

Mykeru and Walter Ego are clearly flirting. Get a room, guys.

Parsehole: amazing image.

I do try to work out now and then.

[cunt]

melodramatic attention whore.

How many unhinged posts did you make over at JTs blog weirdo?

[Tony Parsehole]

How soon until Cunt makes good on his threat to leave the Pit?

After Justin in Ireland. So this weekend. Also wasn't a "threat" of anything, it was "i'm going to take a break for a couple weeks and see". Does wittle noobie have problems understanding words and reading?

Ah, Don't leave the Pit, Cunt...You are a proper Cunt but that's why I love you with my man schlong.

[Dick Strawkins]

First world problems:

It must be a very special kind of hell to sit next to po-faced Ophelia on a transatlantic flight, with her sighing and twitching and fidgeting and rummaging in her backpack and munching on her fucking snacks the whole time.

Good thing I don't have any transatlantic flights planned. ::shudders::

I saw a huge guy entering one of the buildings at work yesterday who looked exactly like Dillahunty. In fact, maybe it was Dillahunty.

http://i.imgur.com/EuZDT3M.jpg

[Tony Parsehole]

I tell you what makes me want to leave the Pit.....
THE FACT THAT IT'S NOW TAKING 50 FUCKING HOURS TO LOAD A FUCKING COMMENT BECAUSE THE BASTARD THREAD IS TO FUCKING BASTARD BIG.

[Tony Parsehole]

Hell, 98% of all labor is forced. Who the hell wants to swing a hammer all day?

Thor? :dance:

Peter Sutcliffe.

[cunt]

We shall see. It could just be burn-out.

[Tribble]

I think this might explain why Steffy Zvan is all over JT's ass on this one, single comment crusade. It seemed so bizarre to me that she would get her fat cheeks all red and puffed over this, but it makes sense when you read the words below, taken from a description of panels at Skepchicon: she's suddenly realized that she has to talk about dealing with trolls in a few days, and came up with the idea of creating some shit that she could then steal and use to make her powerpoint slides. We are watching, Stef...

http://i.imgur.com/0eFwOop.png

Well, for them, fighting trolls would involve suicide....