Jim the Pleb Made Me Do It

[Guest]

the people pretending its nothing are wrong

the people pretending its something SERIOUS are wronger. but they had best be calling out jim klawson, pz, anyone at the reason rally who approved of the decision, and anyone who made light of their appearance due to threatening of safe spaces and triggering and ZOMG

while still--of course--being massively wrong wrongheads

[d4m10n]

Attempted to disrupt a meeting that she doesn't like by setting a bunch of fundamentalist shit-heads against it.

I will happily grant this argument, if you can find even one news clipping of WBC disrupting a meeting.

[cunt]

I think you should answer peterb's question first.

[Percentage]

Has anyone else heard of this #killallmen hashtag that's trending at the moment? It doesn't offend me, because it's Twitter SJWs, and consider the source. But I have found it very telling as to how these guys think. For example, check this out, it's been getting link love on the hashtag.

http://stavvers.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/kill-all-men/

Here's a money quote, talking about some unidentified individuals she hates:

Patriarchy would destroy me were I to ever touch a hair on their head.

Since "patriarchy" is the Sith in SJW-speak, this would seem to imply that she feel as though she should be able to "touch a hair on their head", and is wrongly held back from justly murdering a few people by "the patriarchy", whatever that means.

It's emblematic of the amazing entitlement and immaturity that's endemic in that community, and it's why I don't want them anywhere near the atheist movement. Not because they want to #killallmen, but because they are ineffective, immature dumbfucks.

[Aneris]

Semantics and technicalities aside, it certainly looks kinda bad. People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them. Point for Benson this time.

Meanwhile Aunt Ophelia is harassed big time by Sara Mayhew. With a tweet.

Big Time! I hope Ophelia has made screenshots and called the FBI. She writes in More documenting the harassment that the Terrorists even use alias names when they do "false flag" operations.

No, it isn’t. Eneraldo has an apparent name, not a mere handle. Sure, it could be an alias, but “clownshoe” and “ElevatorGATE” and “AmbrosiaX” are self-evidently aliases. The three shit-talkers make it unmistakable at a glance that they are not accountable for their harassment because they do it under a false flag, like those corporations that don’t want to pay for double hulls so they sail under the Liberian flag, instead.

I wanted to ask Hyperdeath, Stacy, great1american1satan, oolon, Sheila, Feline
Wowbagger, numenastr and Aratina Cage I had difficulties finding a job and the like--I mean with a real name like "great1american1satan" you probably run into some issues.

"I'm great1american1satan, I wanted to pick up my kid. Yeah, his name is LaVey4Luziferus."

"We're sorry to inform you Aratina Cage, but we think you aren't quite suitable to work in our call-center"

[Aneris]

that should have meant... "if they had difficulties.."

[BarnOwl]

Attempted to disrupt a meeting that she doesn't like by setting a bunch of fundamentalist shit-heads against it.

By no means do I think this is the worst thing to ever have happened in the world. Or that Karla is the absolute worst person for doing it. She's not. What it was though, is extremely petty and spiteful. Disingenuous bullshit isn't going to change that. Red Herrings about actual threat level, are not going to change that.

I'm with cunt on this.

Of course in one sense, I'm always "with cunt."

[Steersman]

Attempted to disrupt a meeting that she doesn't like by setting a bunch of fundamentalist shit-heads against it.

I will happily grant this argument, if you can find even one news clipping of WBC disrupting a meeting.

That "WBC disrupting a meeting" seems to be a bit of a red herring which would seem to be rather secondary to what the intent was. And it appears that the intent of Karla’s tweet was largely to rile the Women in Secularism people, to hassle them a little, to poke a stick into their little ant’s nest. Doesn’t seem all that commendable.

Maybe there’s some justification for criticizing the philosophy and principles behind that group, but the tweet can hardly be claimed to be doing that, and looked only like rather much of a cheap shot ….

[Steersman]

FWIW, and at some risk of being labeled an “attention whore” and apart from the somewhat odious stereotyping of the group of individuals described by that noun, the following may be of some interest here. It’s a comment I made on Sally’s blog which she, for some strange reason, seems reluctant to let out of moderation:

Since both Stephanie Zvan and Jadehawk would apparently prefer to stand on ceremony rather than have some spirited and useful discussions on their blogs, I never did get a chance to respond to your last comments to or about me there (1), the latter in particular, to wit:

You’re maybe saying “[hyperbolic equations], it’s more of a gal thing”?

There are many ways to possibly misinterpret what I said, but that is definitely among the stupidest.

Apart from the fact that my statement was phrased as a question – and largely a rhetorical one at that – and not as an assertion of truth, I should mention at the outset that I think there is some justification for the first part of your previous statement to which I was responding:

Did anybody see that TED talk about hyperbolic maths, crochet, and coral reefs? Turns out mathematicians spent 100 years thinking that there was no way to model hyperbolic equations in the real world because none of them did crochet. Why did none of them do crochet? Because maths are for men and crochet is for women!

And while I haven’t actually watched the TED video yet, I have found the blog of the woman who started that ball rolling – Daina Taimina – and have borrowed the book from the library – Crocheting Adventures with Hyperbolic Planes – that she wrote on the topic. As I find the mathematics rather intriguing I’ll thank you for that.

However, it seems you are very much mistaken about the “no way to model hyperbolic equations” as it seems mathematicians have been doing so for almost 400 years. For instance, if you take a look at the Wikipedia article on the “pseudosphere” (2) – which is a physically realizable manifestation of the“hyperbolic plane”, one with constant negative curvature – you’ll see this:

Just as the sphere has at every point a positively curved geometry of a dome the whole pseudosphere has at every point the negatively curved geometry of a saddle.

As early as 1639 Christiaan Huygens found that the volume and the surface area of the pseudosphere are finite, despite the infinite extent of the shape along the axis of rotation.

I discussed that in some further detail in the Pit (3) – should you wish to brave those environs. But in any case, rather much of a stretch to get to “no way to model hyperbolic equations”, much less to laying any difficulties the mathematicians did have to a lack of familiarity with crocheting. Although that is not to say that that skill can’t have any relevance or value to that science or related ones.

However, what I found particularly objectionable and highly problematic was your barefaced assertion that:

That’s one example of how the exclusion of women slowed down mathematical discovery.

For one thing, one might ask, even if there were as many female mathematicians as there are male ones, what makes you think that those females were necessarily going to be familiar with crocheting? Do all women learn that skill at their mothers’ knees? Is that supposedly an intrinsic female intuition? (Why I asked that rhetorical question. And why the evidence makes it such an untenable position.)

Further, while I will readily agree if not deplore the fact that, in part at least, biology has traditionally tended to exclude women from many pursuits or avenues, to even suggest that argument – that because crocheting has been a traditional female industry or pastime and because that skill has some relevance to mathematics therefore there should be more females in mathematics – is looking rather problematic if not actually sexist. Galileo apparently developed much of his physics because his finely tuned sense of pitch enabled him to make measurements of time that no else before him had thought or been able to do. To argue your case seems rather analgous to arguing that because of Galileo’s experiences there should be more musicians in physics. Neither argument seems particularly tenable for any number of reasons.

---
1) “_http://jadehawks.wordpress.com/2013/04/13/a-collection-of-reading-comprehension-fails/#comment-3315”;
2) “_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudosphere”;
3) “_http://slymepit.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=85877&sid=ffeb8ad672a6ccdf1be86813d40a1ab6#p85877”;

[BarnOwl]

The three shit-talkers make it unmistakable at a glance that they are not accountable for their harassment because they do it under a false flag, like those corporations that don’t want to pay for double hulls so they sail under the Liberian flag, instead.

So people who disagree with Ophelia on Twitter are like the Exxon Valdez? Which, btw, was never registered with Liberia. The flag state for the Exxon Valdez when it ran aground on Bligh Reef was ::drumroll:: the U S of A.

[d4m10n]

People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them.

One should never *associate* with them, of course, but it's a fair bet that whomever they are protesting is bound to look more sympathetic to those who find their speech distasteful.

Had they actually shown up at a CFI conference for secular women, shouting regressive and hateful bullshit about lesbians and womanly submission to husbands (true patriarchy from true believers) would that make CFI look better or worse? Would it make literalist Christianity look better or worse? For whom would it generate positive press in the local papers?

[Bourne Skeptic]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... =25#p81252
"I'm actually really surprised that Hannibal doesn't trigger the fuck out of me, I really really am. It should."


Maybe someone can explain this to me, if being triggered is such a horrific experience, why would someone(ceepolk) intentionally watch a TV show that she thinks should "trigger the fuck out of me"

The only explanation I can come up with, is that she wouldn't voluntarily put herself in that situation unless she knew that "being triggered" isn't the traumatic experience that she and the rest of the A+ crowd make it out to be.

[d4m10n]

Here's a question for you: was Karla's tweet intended to raise or lower the odds that WiS would succeed, with success being defined by the organizers?

I'm not going to try to read Karla's mind, she's a registered Pitter, she can explain her own intent. I've already asked her to do so privately.

What does it look like her intent was?

Her intent might have been to lure WBC into giving secularists a free and positive publicity boost. It's a fair bet that this was exactly what Klawson was trying to do for the Reason Rally, eh?

[Steersman]

People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them.

....
Had they actually shown up at a CFI conference for secular women, shouting regressive and hateful bullshit about lesbians and womanly submission to husbands (true patriarchy from true believers) would that make CFI look better or worse?

You’re not really trying to argue that Karla made those tweets to make the CFI - and WiS - look better?

[d4m10n]

People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them.

....
Had they actually shown up at a CFI conference for secular women, shouting regressive and hateful bullshit about lesbians and womanly submission to husbands (true patriarchy from true believers) would that make CFI look better or worse?

You’re not really trying to argue that Karla made those tweets to make the CFI - and WiS - look better?

I'm not trying to read Karla's intent, she can answer for herself. That said, have WBC protests ever made anyone (other than fundamentalist Christianity) look worse?

[peterb]

Here's a question for you: was Karla's tweet intended to raise or lower the odds that WiS would succeed, with success being defined by the organizers?

I'm not going to try to read Karla's mind, she's a registered Pitter, she can explain her own intent. I've already asked her to do so privately.

What does it look like her intent was?

Her intent might have been to lure WBC into giving secularists a free and positive publicity boost. It's a fair bet that this was exactly what Klawson was trying to do for the Reason Rally, eh?

"Might have been". This is a true statement but disingenuous without addressing the issue of your estimate on how likely. At some point, the likelihood is low enough that it is silly (at best) to bring it up. Do you really want to take the position that is was more likely than not Karla's intent to benefit WiS? It's absolutely irrelevant to my question what Klawson did or didn't do.
With respect to reading Karla's mind, I specifically asked you what you thought a reasonable person would guess to be the likely intent behind the tweet. No mind reading necessary.

[Steersman]

The three shit-talkers make it unmistakable at a glance that they are not accountable for their harassment because they do it under a false flag, like those corporations that don’t want to pay for double hulls so they sail under the Liberian flag, instead.

So people who disagree with Ophelia on Twitter are like the Exxon Valdez? Which, btw, was never registered with Liberia. The flag state for the Exxon Valdez when it ran aground on Bligh Reef was ::drumroll:: the U S of A.

That girl does have problems with analogies in one way or another, for example, her comparison of TAM and Nazi Germany – although I think that that one of hers was not totally without merit.

However, in the same way that one asserts the paradigmatic analogy “hand is to palm as foot is to sole”, she is claiming that pseudonymous posters are to “harassment” as false-flagged ships are to ecological irresponsibility? While one might argue that the posters and ships are analogous, I would say it fails badly in asserting that harassment and ecological irresponsibility are likewise analogous in any way, shape or form.

Although I suppose one might argue that harassment and the oil carried by the ships might be so - "harassment", like oil, providing light and heat and lubrication in various on-line and off-line discussions, but that might be somewhat of a stretch ….

In any case, Crommunist had a quite reasonable and interesting perspective on the technique not long ago:

Analogy is an excellent method of exposing inconsistencies in logic, which is an important component of refuting bad arguments.

However, bad analogies – as Ophelia’s latest seems to qualify as – tend to be worse than useless ….

[Guest]

People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them.

....
Had they actually shown up at a CFI conference for secular women, shouting regressive and hateful bullshit about lesbians and womanly submission to husbands (true patriarchy from true believers) would that make CFI look better or worse?

You’re not really trying to argue that Karla made those tweets to make the CFI - and WiS - look better?

anyone and everyone looks better standing next to wbc

[d4m10n]

Here's a question for you: was Karla's tweet intended to raise or lower the odds that WiS would succeed, with success being defined by the organizers?

I'm not going to try to read Karla's mind, she's a registered Pitter, she can explain her own intent. I've already asked her to do so privately.

What does it look like her intent was?

Her intent might have been to lure WBC into giving secularists a free and positive publicity boost. It's a fair bet that this was exactly what Klawson was trying to do for the Reason Rally, eh?

"Might have been". This is a true statement but disingenuous without addressing the issue of your estimate on how likely. At some point, the likelihood is low enough that it is silly (at best) to bring it up. Do you really want to take the position that is was more likely than not Karla's intent to benefit WiS? It's absolutely irrelevant to my question what Klawson did or didn't do.

The background probability that a committed and media savvy secular activist might try to use WBC for their own publicity purposes is completely relevant to any sort of reasonable calculus of the "likelihood" of another similarly situated secular activist doing the same thing for yet another big secular event in D.C.

[Steersman]

People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them.

....
Had they actually shown up at a CFI conference for secular women, shouting regressive and hateful bullshit about lesbians and womanly submission to husbands (true patriarchy from true believers) would that make CFI look better or worse?

You’re not really trying to argue that Karla made those tweets to make the CFI - and WiS - look better?

..... That said, have WBC protests ever made anyone (other than fundamentalist Christianity) look worse?

Good point. But you framed that particular question as “better or worse?” and it seems rather much of a stretch to argue that the intent was “better”. And if there was no motivation along that axis then what other ones spring to mind? Riling them up? Hassling them? Leading them to see the philosophical and pragmatic errors of their ways?

[Steersman]

Here's a question for you: was Karla's tweet intended to raise or lower the odds that WiS would succeed, with success being defined by the organizers?

I'm not going to try to read Karla's mind, she's a registered Pitter, she can explain her own intent. I've already asked her to do so privately.

What does it look like her intent was?

Her intent might have been to lure WBC into giving secularists a free and positive publicity boost. It's a fair bet that this was exactly what Klawson was trying to do for the Reason Rally, eh?

"Might have been". This is a true statement but disingenuous without addressing the issue of your estimate on how likely. At some point, the likelihood is low enough that it is silly (at best) to bring it up. Do you really want to take the position that is was more likely than not Karla's intent to benefit WiS? It's absolutely irrelevant to my question what Klawson did or didn't do.

The background probability that a committed and media savvy secular activist might try to use WBC for their own publicity purposes is completely relevant to any sort of reasonable calculus of the "likelihood" of another similarly situated secular activist doing the same thing for yet another big secular event in D.C.

Karla, deep cover operative for CFI and WiS?

[I saw what you did there …. ;-) ]

[KiwiInOz]

Of course in one sense, I'm always "with cunt."

And this is why you are essential to the goals of the patriarchy.

[Cunning Punt]

Big difference between inviting them to protest your own event and seeing if they might be interested in protesting somebody else's.

Yep. Pretty much the difference that counts. It's basically like saying "Hey, I don't like these guys. Please go and harrass them". Of course, the fact that they did not bother to worry about their safety with the first incident is quite telling.

No, it's not like saying "Please go and harass." Can you please point to where this is said and how Shirley's attendance necessarily means protesting?...and how the protesting would be inside the hotel, at the event?

Come on. What's the chance she's going to buy a ticket and go see all the fab speakers?

Not that I give a shit if they protest. As others have said, it was no biggie at the Reason Rally and now this time it is. That's because they're full of shit.

[Cunning Punt]

Ok, cunt, let's say they aren't a threat to anyone and will do nothing but stand well outside of the con looking like fools for all to see. Given this total lack of (foreseeable) negative consequences, what exactly did Porter do wrong?

Here's a question for you: was Karla's tweet intended to raise or lower the odds that WiS would succeed, with success being defined by the organizers? What does it look like her intent was? If you think her intent was entirely neutral on is issue (unlikely, but possible), what exactly should a reasonable person not knowing Karla personally think the likelihood was as to her intent?

Ok, that was more than one question, but you get the point.

She did to shit stir. Big whoop. If it was her intention to lower the odds that WiS would succeed, then she will be SOL. They won't make a blind bit of difference. They probably won't even turn up. They were going to picket the Newtown funerals and thousands of people freaked out on Facebook and were going to form a human shield but it all turned out to be a fart in a teacup.

Semantics and technicalities aside, it certainly looks kinda bad. People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them. Point for Benson this time.

At best they will make no difference whatsoever. At worst they will bring positive publicity to WiS. It will be a win for the baboons because they can show how respectable they are while pointing the finger at the evil misogynists who invited thwm.

[Submariner]

I'm going to go against the flow and stick up or Karla re. the WBC thing.

Let's face facts here: the WBC are the closest thing to a "Comedy Hate Group" in North America. They're the equivalent of Mary Whitehouse. They're a good fit to Peezus and A+Theism. Being able to wind them all up at the same time is a good thing (tm). So nice one Karla.

I'm with Git on this one.
At first glance I thought it was reasonably funny, and that was before we all got to picture Fred Phelps being mooned by a trans-woman.

Also, if it keeps the bastards away from soldiers' funerals I'm all for it.
Maybe Ophie Benson can bore some of the pricks to death.

I'm with these two. I read the tweet as a taunting of a batshit Christian to attend a secular women's conference. In effect asking the arachnophobe if they will tour the spider exhibit.

[TheMudbrooker]

No, it isn’t. Eneraldo has an apparent name, not a mere handle. Sure, it could be an alias, but “clownshoe” and “ElevatorGATE” and “AmbrosiaX” are self-evidently aliases. The three shit-talkers make it unmistakable at a glance that they are not accountable for their harassment because they do it under a false flag, like those corporations that don’t want to pay for double hulls so they sail under the Liberian flag, instead.

I wanted to ask Hyperdeath, Stacy, great1american1satan, oolon, Sheila, Feline
Wowbagger, numenastr and Aratina Cage I had difficulties finding a job and the like--I mean with a real name like "great1american1satan" you probably run into some issues.

"I'm great1american1satan, I wanted to pick up my kid. Yeah, his name is LaVey4Luziferus."

"We're sorry to inform you Aratina Cage, but we think you aren't quite suitable to work in our call-center"

Maybe Ms. Benson has a point. Only people who don't want the public to see them use aliases. You know, folks like Marion Morrison, Archibald Leach, Ethel Zimmerman and Ramon Estevez.

[katamari Damassi]

What's the big deal about Karla's tweet? Like there was any chance of WBC was going to protest WISCon. They go to where the attention is and WISCon will be lucky to get a mention in the DC Pennysaver.

As far as I'm concerned; Karla trolled the trolls, both FC(n) and WBC,

[Bhurzum]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... =25#p81252
"I'm actually really surprised that Hannibal doesn't trigger the fuck out of me, I really really am. It should."


Maybe someone can explain this to me, if being triggered is such a horrific experience, why would someone(ceepolk) intentionally watch a TV show that she thinks should "trigger the fuck out of me"

The only explanation I can come up with, is that she wouldn't voluntarily put herself in that situation unless she knew that "being triggered" isn't the traumatic experience that she and the rest of the A+ crowd make it out to be.

Perhaps it's a scheduling thing?

Maybe Rainbow is showing at the same time and Hannibal is the lesser of two evils?

:lol:

Rainbow "triggering" indeed...

[Steersman]

I'm going to go against the flow and stick up or Karla re. the WBC thing.

Let's face facts here: the WBC are the closest thing to a "Comedy Hate Group" in North America. They're the equivalent of Mary Whitehouse. They're a good fit to Peezus and A+Theism. Being able to wind them all up at the same time is a good thing (tm). So nice one Karla.

I'm with Git on this one.
At first glance I thought it was reasonably funny, and that was before we all got to picture Fred Phelps being mooned by a trans-woman.

Also, if it keeps the bastards away from soldiers' funerals I'm all for it.
Maybe Ophie Benson can bore some of the pricks to death.

I'm with these two. I read the tweet as a taunting of a batshit Christian to attend a secular women's conference. In effect asking the arachnophobe if they will tour the spider exhibit.

And taunting and trolling are commendable actions? Particularly by supposed leaders in a community?

Doesn't look to me much like any "high road” ….

[welch]

I'll bet Welch knows a lot of women from the derby who would fit the description.

http://img0109.popscreencdn.com/1580520 ... ng-hot.jpg

http://misslaracroftweb.weebly.com/uplo ... 7_orig.jpg

LOL, and then some.

I'm not sure why, but based on my experience, Derby is an incredibly accepting sport. Our team has:

trans folk
gay folk
amazingly girly girls
NERDS
cops
active-duty military
liberals
conservatives
right-wingers
left-wingers
it's anything but all honkies
teachers
printers
construction workers
designers
folks who work at the local homeless shelter
ages run from early 20s to mid 40s.
Ph.D Students

I'm not sure why, but, I don't care. I love all of them, because they're all awesome, and focused on one thing: kicking fucking ass, and doing just a little bit better than last time.

But in the way they're supposed to, with no actual animosity towards the other team. I mean on the track, it's "I WILL END YOU" but as soon as the bout is over, it's all "No, no, you guys did AWESOME. I noticed one thing that could be tripping you up..." and lots of trading of training tips and equipment tips.

Atlanta sent some folks to watch Gotham (NYC) play, came back and started DESTROYING their opposition. They share like open source people claim to.

There's derby wives, derby sisters, I think I may be a derby husband to...3-4 people at this point, they say "thank you" to the volunteers like it was the cure for fucking cancer, and even with the drama that can accompany any group, genuinely try to not shit on people for stupid crap. It is one of the very few groups I have ever associated with that has never once given me even the slightest pause about doing so.

FTB and Skepchicks wishes they were as 'diverse' and 'accepting' as these folks are.

Oh and "cunt" is one of their favorite words.

[welch]

WBC are to Protestantism as Radfems are to Feminism:

1) Loud, proud, and highly public
2) Downright Manichaean, dividing the world into mostly external enemies and a few true believers
3) A horrifying embarrassment to the mainstream whenever they provide a demonstration of what happens when one of their doctrines is taken completely seriously, e.g. “Women need woman-only SafeSpaces” or “The road to hell is broad.”

If only Cathy Brennan and her crew would show up to protest WiSCFI for allowing men like Thibeault into the movement as allies. Damn, but that would be hilarious to watch.

is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that for all their puffery, the WBC doesn't seem to actually go anywhere anymore?

[welch]

While I don't agree with this action, whenever it happened, I see this as another sign that the Myers-Benson axis is running out of legs to kick out from under "the other side," particularly with Fogg poised to detonate the gendered insult angle. With that gone, what else do they really have save individual indiscretion promoted to group condemnation, of which this is a perfect prototype. Thing is, that's their mode of discourse, and not the Slymepit's, from what I can see.

Doesn't mean you can't say the tweets were ill-advised.

It's interesting to see the reaction over there.
There's a few who seem to have experience of the WBC, for example Martin Wagner and Doubtthat, who seem to think they are a joke, and therefore don't see Karla's tweet as particularly threatening.
Others, Like Hyperdeath, are busy doxxing her and trying to fuck up her employment. :twisted:

Having lived in that area for a few years, the...'power' of the WBC is highly overrated. Seriously, it's like maybe ten people holding signs and talking stupid. You get more people at a klan meeting in harvard square.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

Need some data to back up your "hey the gender divide isn't all in favour of men" arguments?

It's difficult to deny that women suffer more than men as a result of their gender, and highlighting the myriad ways in which this happens is one of the cornerstones of modern feminism – which is currently enjoying a revival in the UK and elsewhere.

But justice isn't a relative concept. If it were, we could suggest we should care less about racism against black people just because Asian people in this country are more likely to be victims of racially-motivated hate crime.

Obviously that's nonsense. But so might be ignoring issues that affect men more severely than women just because women, overall, have it worse.

Delving into the data reveals a surprising array of areas in which men might have the hardest time.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog ... CMP=twt_fd

[demystifier]

Big difference between inviting them to protest your own event and seeing if they might be interested in protesting somebody else's.

100% right. I really don't see how anyone can defend Karla here. Purely shitty behavior to invite WBC to protest an event just because she disagrees with the speakers of said event. I don't really get people defending her on here. Even if you just see it as a luzly prank, that is still not a defense of clearly obnoxious behavior. To me it is one thing to laugh at the excesses of silly atheist internet shitstorms and a completely different thing to instigate them.

And although I don't see any legitimacy to seeing WBC as a 'threat' (they really are just fucktards standing around with ugly signs with horrible slogans and adults should be able to easily disregard them), this pretty much plays perfectly into the harassment narrative, not in the legal sense, but in terms of another example of unwanted attention clearly designed to be upset or fuck with someone.

As much bullshit as it is for public figures with public blogs to yell, Harassment! at someone mentioning or criticizing them on the internet (or using a twitter hash-tag they don't like), it is also bullshit to defend behaviors like this directed at private individuals (or in this case an event with private individuals) that are clearly designed to provoke or vex people.

Worst of all, when confronted with this, Karla didn't take a moment to go, "yeah, I fucked up" but tried to play it off as 'tongue in cheek'. That is clearly a disingenuous attempt to save face.

And dammit, now I've done the exact thing that I came here largely to avoid...which is take all this fucking nonsense seriously! Why couldn't I just stick to the plan of dick jokes and bullshitting...

[demystifier]

On a related topic, holy shit at those in FtB who are treating WBC as a real potential threat, and at those shitting all over a few posters who say that Porter is wrong but people shouldn't feel unsafe. The way "doubtthat", for instance, was raked over the coals for trying to politely reassure people that the conference would be safe even if WBC showed up. That was insane to me. This was even after doubtthat's kowtowing to posters who essentially took the stance that their immediate emotional response was the only valid perspective through which to understand this. I'll recap if you missed it.

Potential WiS2 Attendee: "OMGZ, WBC? Big signs make feel scary! Big sunglasses man actually a rape bot?"
doubtthat: "Don't be scurred! I grew up near those asshats. Is no rapebot, just giant douchebags that stand there!"
PWA: "Um, Make Feel Scary! Signs make male gaze, sprout demon peneer, spray everyone with Teh Patriarchy!"
DT: "Oh, I'm sorries! I understand you feel scared and I respect, just saying you don't need to be scared, they're actually harmless!"
PWA: "No, ARE YOU LISTENING! FEEL SCARY!"
DT: "Apologies! I appreciate your sacrosanct feelings....you are right and I'm not looking for cookies, I'm just trying to help people know these folks aren't actually scary."
PWA: "Bitch, did I stutter? I FELT something and your attempts to do anything other than completely agree with me lets me know that you need to retake "Being an Ally 101".
DT: "Wait, wut? Okay I'll stand up for myself and try to be reasonable."
Peezus: "doubtthat, shut your whore mouth or I'll shut it for you, the hard way".
PWA: Thank you PZ!

Now how is that for some stinkin' freethinkin'!

Ok, so it wasn't exactly like that, and PWA is an amalgamation of several posters, but now you don't have to read a few hundred comments =)

[welch]

AtheismPlussers discuss which TV shows make them want to puke because of ableism/racism/patriarchy/anti-zombieism/etc.

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4633

It starts out with

The Walking Dead

First and second seasons were chock full of gender essentialism

and soon descends into the usual AtheismPlus insanity such as someone being threatened with a permaban because they like Family Guy.

I laughed my ass off reading through that odious pile of hypersensitive dog shit. If I was inclined to do so, I could don my trusty "atheism plus tru-vision sunglasses(tm)" and watch any tv show, literally any tv show, and find something to whine and bitch about.

A+ is like a warped version of the movie "They Live" but instead of aliens, their sunglasses allow them to see rape culture, patriarchy, able-ism, misogyny and all manner of fee-hurting nastiness wherever they look.

http://images.popmatters.com/misc_art/d ... -splsh.jpg

Seriously, fuck them.

I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some ass

ABLEIST!
VIOLENT REPRESSOR OF THE UNDERCLASS
CHECK YOUR PRIVILEDGE

...you know what...hey alien guys, fuck it, I'm cool with you taking over. Here's your glasses back, my bad.

[welch]

I'm going to go against the flow and stick up or Karla re. the WBC thing.

Let's face facts here: the WBC are the closest thing to a "Comedy Hate Group" in North America. They're the equivalent of Mary Whitehouse. They're a good fit to Peezus and A+Theism. Being able to wind them all up at the same time is a good thing (tm). So nice one Karla.

Yeah, (mark the date, agreeing with Git), seriously, if you start taking the WBC seriously as anything but a kaufmanesque social trolling, you've missed something. I love watching them, their appearance at SDCC was fucking epic, and the folks there dealt with them PERFECTLY. "GOD HATES SIGNS". I still giggle about that.

The WBC is only a threat if the old preacher from "Poltergeist 2" freaks you out. Fred Phelps looks waaaaay to much like that guy.

[welch]

When I heard the WBC might have been invited by one of ours (possibly because they are a sort of traveling clown-car of free comedic relief at the expense of fundamentalism) it rang a faint bell in the back of my head: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-285798

Funny how their reaction changed...couldn't be because of the source of the "invite"? Nah. Couldn't be that at all.

[welch]

When I heard the WBC might have been invited by one of ours (possibly because they are a sort of traveling clown-car of free comedic relief at the expense of fundamentalism) it rang a faint bell in the back of my head: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-285798

Veeeeeerry interesting.....Good catch.

For some reason Janine's comment reminds me of some other group:

janine
12 March 2012 at 9:47 pm
I have seem plenty of WBC style protesters at various gay and lesbian events. When I have to go by them, I smile and wave at them. Besides being no where as confrontational in RL as opposed to here, these people are looking for people to express hatred and disdain towards them. It validates their self image of being martyrs and facing down evil.
I refuse to play their little game.

Most of the comments are fairly positive about WBC attending this event, apparently because a known slymepitter didn't make the invitation.

So, every year in Tallahassee, there's a 'big' spring parade. (Big for here, tiny for real cities)

It's kind of hokey, but WTF, there's not a lot to do here, so everyone watches. Because this is a university town, there's a lot of LGBT groups, and they always have a float. This one year, me, melissa and her parents realize we're standing behind godbots who are going to yell many stern things at the "fag float". I'm almost giggling with glee, because for me, this is fucking MANNA. I fully plan on yelling my own...version...of things from right behind them. So in the middle of "god hates fags", etc, I plan on bellowing all kinds of shit like "JESUS ONLY HUNG WITH WHORES FOR FREE BLOWJOBS"

You know, supportive shit like that.

So here comes the pride float. Purple? Check. Pink triangles? Check. Rainbows all over the fucking place? Check. The theme was "all families are good for kids", so lots of stuff...they get closer, and closer, and right in front of us, and then are gone, and...

nothing. Fucking godbots say NOTHING. I was so bummed, I figure they lost their courage.

Right behind the pride float is the local jug/tub thumping musical club float. Playin' a buncha hillbilly shit, having a good time. We're turning to walk back to the car and the fucking godbots *open up*...ON THE WRONG FLOAT.

That made up for so much.

So yeah, that's why I never take those twats seriously. The louder they are, the less they ever do.

[skepandsprinkles]

I guess the WBC feels that it's not worth the gas to drive and actually do something when the mere mention of them going someplace gets the twitters, facebooks, reddits, and youtubes ablaze with the wonderful attention they so desperately desire.

Seriously, when anyone brings up the WBC protesting something my reaction is "So they don't like X? What the fuck else is new?" They're an old show and they stopped being entertaining a long time ago.

[Zenspace]

While I don't agree with this action, whenever it happened, I see this as another sign that the Myers-Benson axis is running out of legs to kick out from under "the other side," particularly with Fogg poised to detonate the gendered insult angle. With that gone, what else do they really have save individual indiscretion promoted to group condemnation, of which this is a perfect prototype. Thing is, that's their mode of discourse, and not the Slymepit's, from what I can see.

Doesn't mean you can't say the tweets were ill-advised.

It's interesting to see the reaction over there.
There's a few who seem to have experience of the WBC, for example Martin Wagner and Doubtthat, who seem to think they are a joke, and therefore don't see Karla's tweet as particularly threatening.
Others, Like Hyperdeath, are busy doxxing her and trying to fuck up her employment. :twisted:

Having lived in that area for a few years, the...'power' of the WBC is highly overrated. Seriously, it's like maybe ten people holding signs and talking stupid. You get more people at a klan meeting in harvard square.

And there you have it - the first rational observation on the topic. I will confess to some curiosity regarding Karla's intent, as it was an unusual thing to do, but I won't be staying up late wondering about it.

[welch]

From a strictly consequentialist perspective, I'm sort of at a loss to see the downside of having WBC protest an event, from the perspective of the event organisers. The most hated hate group in all the U.S. comes out to get their hate on, and that's supposed to make you look bad somehow?

I suppose there is always the risk that someone attacks them with boxcutters or porcupines or something like that, but as long as you can avoid that, the publicity bounce cannot hurt.

Yep. WBC shows up, the media instantly blesses your event as "good". Lots of free media with that shit. If WISC2 had any fucking brains, they'd be trying to find discounted hotel rooms for Shirley and her brood.

[welch]

If I die in a fire anytime soon, could one of you guys arrange for WBC to picket my funeral? I'll be buried only about four hours from Topeka so it's basically a day trip. Thanks!

But seriously though, what's with the fear-mongering here? I've attended three or four WBC events, as a counter-protestor, as a photographer, as a bystander. They just stand there, usually blocks away from the event under protest, looking and sounding like a clutch of hateful inbred kooks waving their multicoloured signage. People make fun of them for a bit, and then they go home. They are, as a group, less fearsome and more lawful than Francisco Bacopa and his Occupy Houston cronies.

Pretty much. Every time I wanted to go to one of their events, my friends would all find ways to distract me.

Not because the WBC are dangerous on any level other than maybe to your sense of grammar and IQ, but because I can be a total asshole when I get going, and they knew if I thought I could make one of them cry, I'd show up dressed like a gimp with a bullhorn and a feather up my ass just to drive them crazy.

the WBC on their best day is about as dangerous as a chihuahua barking at you from inside a house.

[welch]

Attempted to disrupt a meeting that she doesn't like by setting a bunch of fundamentalist shit-heads against it.

I will happily grant this argument, if you can find even one news clipping of WBC disrupting a meeting.

That "WBC disrupting a meeting" seems to be a bit of a red herring which would seem to be rather secondary to what the intent was. And it appears that the intent of Karla’s tweet was largely to rile the Women in Secularism people, to hassle them a little, to poke a stick into their little ant’s nest. Doesn’t seem all that commendable.

Maybe there’s some justification for criticizing the philosophy and principles behind that group, but the tweet can hardly be claimed to be doing that, and looked only like rather much of a cheap shot ….

To be fair, she could have gotten the same reaction by tweeting "Good morning, lovely weather we're having" at ophie and melody hensley.

I imagine if Mykeru tweeted them a funny cat gif, they'd shit themselves in terror.

At this point, we're trolling them just by not having the decency to all die quietly at once. When you have that many Nervous Teds all screaming like the apocalypse just happened in their pants because a leaf landed on their porch step, at some point, resisting the temptation to see if they'll jump up and down, maybe wave their arms as they scream is pretty fucking hard to resist.

[Zenspace]

On a related topic, holy shit at those in FtB who are treating WBC as a real potential threat, and at those shitting all over a few posters who say that Porter is wrong but people shouldn't feel unsafe. The way "doubtthat", for instance, was raked over the coals for trying to politely reassure people that the conference would be safe even if WBC showed up. That was insane to me. This was even after doubtthat's kowtowing to posters who essentially took the stance that their immediate emotional response was the only valid perspective through which to understand this. I'll recap if you missed it.

Potential WiS2 Attendee: "OMGZ, WBC? Big signs make feel scary! Big sunglasses man actually a rape bot?"
doubtthat: "Don't be scurred! I grew up near those asshats. Is no rapebot, just giant douchebags that stand there!"
PWA: "Um, Make Feel Scary! Signs make male gaze, sprout demon peneer, spray everyone with Teh Patriarchy!"
DT: "Oh, I'm sorries! I understand you feel scared and I respect, just saying you don't need to be scared, they're actually harmless!"
PWA: "No, ARE YOU LISTENING! FEEL SCARY!"
DT: "Apologies! I appreciate your sacrosanct feelings....you are right and I'm not looking for cookies, I'm just trying to help people know these folks aren't actually scary."
PWA: "Bitch, did I stutter? I FELT something and your attempts to do anything other than completely agree with me lets me know that you need to retake "Being an Ally 101".
DT: "Wait, wut? Okay I'll stand up for myself and try to be reasonable."
Peezus: "doubtthat, shut your whore mouth or I'll shut it for you, the hard way".
PWA: Thank you PZ!

Now how is that for some stinkin' freethinkin'!

Ok, so it wasn't exactly like that, and PWA is an amalgamation of several posters, but now you don't have to read a few hundred comments =)

Thank you for that public service! :lol:

It really is amazing to watch that forum slowly but very steadily descend into a massive, dysfunctional A+ style black hole. Peezus must be so proud.

[welch]

People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them.

....
Had they actually shown up at a CFI conference for secular women, shouting regressive and hateful bullshit about lesbians and womanly submission to husbands (true patriarchy from true believers) would that make CFI look better or worse?

You’re not really trying to argue that Karla made those tweets to make the CFI - and WiS - look better?

anyone and everyone looks better standing next to wbc

They make a hobo stabbing a pregnant woman with a deer's penis look sane and dignified.

[welch]

People associate WBC with disruptive hate speech, regardless of what they might actually do. Inviting them anywhere will never appear like a particularly good idea. Unless you're an investigative journalist trying to bust them, I do not see where one can hope to win anything by associating with them.

....
Had they actually shown up at a CFI conference for secular women, shouting regressive and hateful bullshit about lesbians and womanly submission to husbands (true patriarchy from true believers) would that make CFI look better or worse?

You’re not really trying to argue that Karla made those tweets to make the CFI - and WiS - look better?

anyone and everyone looks better standing next to wbc

They make a hobo stabbing a pregnant woman with a deer's penis look sane and dignified.

I really should have gone with my first idea on that, namely "monkey" instead of "deer's penis".

[Steersman]

Attempted to disrupt a meeting that she doesn't like by setting a bunch of fundamentalist shit-heads against it.

I will happily grant this argument, if you can find even one news clipping of WBC disrupting a meeting.

That "WBC disrupting a meeting" seems to be a bit of a red herring which would seem to be rather secondary to what the intent was. And it appears that the intent of Karla’s tweet was largely to rile the Women in Secularism people, to hassle them a little, to poke a stick into their little ant’s nest. Doesn’t seem all that commendable.

Maybe there’s some justification for criticizing the philosophy and principles behind that group, but the tweet can hardly be claimed to be doing that, and looked only like rather much of a cheap shot ….

To be fair, she could have gotten the same reaction by tweeting "Good morning, lovely weather we're having" at ophie and melody hensley.

I imagine if Mykeru tweeted them a funny cat gif, they'd shit themselves in terror.

At this point, we're trolling them just by not having the decency to all die quietly at once. When you have that many Nervous Teds all screaming like the apocalypse just happened in their pants because a leaf landed on their porch step, at some point, resisting the temptation to see if they'll jump up and down, maybe wave their arms as they scream is pretty fucking hard to resist.

Many of them do seem to have a rather remarkable tendency to hysteria and histrionics, at least some of which looks rather self-indulgent and self-serving.

However, it also seems quite clear – in spite of the efforts of many “feminists” to deny the possibility – that there are very significant behavioural differences – emotional responses such as crying and hysteria, for examples – between the sexes that have their roots in genetics. Apropos of which, you might be interested in this comment from Damion on Ally Fogg’s blog:

Right now the studies on adult crying are far from painting a complete picture, and that is rather unfortunate. I am making the case here merely that we ought to take the possibility of hormonal drivers more seriously. That said, here is some suggestive anecdotal evidence on point from transmen such as Griffin Hansbury:

Alex Blumberg
How about in the way you feel things and in the way you perceive of your feelings? Is there any change there?

Griffin Hansbury
I have a hard time crying. Before testosterone, it was great if I was frustrated or angry or sad, have a good cry. You’d feel better afterwards. And I do wonder if there isn’t a chemical component behind it because I now have a hard time doing it. And it’s very frustrating.

What I will do is when I feel that pressure build up, I’ll go into my room. I will close the door and force myself. I have to force myself to cry. And the quality of the crying is different than the quality of the crying was before T. It’s very dry. I find myself moaning and sobbing, but with very little tears.

Alex Blumberg
You’ve answered a lot of questions for us today. You reinforced a lot of stereotypes that we’ve almost dispelled with.

[Dick Strawkins]

Has Karla turned up here to explain herself yet?
I'm wondering why she didn't just say: "Yes, I tweeted Shirley Phelps. So fucking what. It was a joke!"

By Ophelias definition of harrassment(tweeting @ someone you don't know), Karla was actually harrassing Phelps!

What's making it worse for Karla is the sort of lame excuses that Justin is making, suggesting that Karla was just enquiring if Shirley Phelps was going to attend as a conference attendee rather than as a wacky protester.

[DeepInsideYourMind]

Has Karla turned up here to explain herself yet?
I'm wondering why she didn't just say: "Yes, I tweeted Shirley Phelps. So fucking what. It was a joke!"

By Ophelias definition of harrassment(tweeting @ someone you don't know), Karla was actually harrassing Phelps!

What's making it worse for Karla is the sort of lame excuses that Justin is making, suggesting that Karla was just enquiring if Shirley Phelps was going to attend as a conference attendee rather than as a wacky protester.

Storm, teacup, who cares ... honestly ... this is what you define as "Not-News"

[Steersman]

When I heard the WBC might have been invited by one of ours (possibly because they are a sort of traveling clown-car of free comedic relief at the expense of fundamentalism) it rang a faint bell in the back of my head: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... ent-285798

Funny how their reaction changed...couldn't be because of the source of the "invite"? Nah. Couldn't be that at all.

Somewhat different context, is it not? In the Reason Rally case it was the National Atheist Party who tendered the “invitation”, presumably as a way of tweaking the tails of WBC if not for politicial opportunism – neither of which seem particularly classy:

Incidentally, it wasn’t the Christians who invited the WBC. From the article cited in the OP:

Members of the Westboro Baptist Church were invited to the Reason Rally by Jim Klawon, Deputy Vice President of Administration of the National Atheist Party, via a letter sent to Pastor Fred Phelps. After receiving this letter, Megan Phelps-Roper, on Twitter, wrote, “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God” Ps14:1 Here’s lookin’ at you, @ReasonRally!Your [unwarranted] pride is your destruction. Dear @ReasonRally: How gracious of you! We accept your invitation & will picket your parade of fools 3/24. Love,WBC.”

While Klawon was maybe bent out of shape at being excluded from that Rally or from having it steal some of his thunder, that seems a bit of a stretch. But Karla? Considering the drama surrounding attempts to exclude Justin from that conference? (Even if the latter was apparently quite a bit before the tweets.) Seems a very different dynamic and set of motivations.

[Steersman]

<snip>

While Klawon was maybe bent out of shape at being excluded from that Rally or from having it steal some of his thunder, that seems a bit of a stretch. But Karla? Considering the drama surrounding attempts to exclude Justin from that conference? (Even if the latter was apparently quite a bit before after the tweets.) Seems a very different dynamic and set of motivations.

My kingdom for an edit button ….

[welch]

Attempted to disrupt a meeting that she doesn't like by setting a bunch of fundamentalist shit-heads against it.

I will happily grant this argument, if you can find even one news clipping of WBC disrupting a meeting.

That "WBC disrupting a meeting" seems to be a bit of a red herring which would seem to be rather secondary to what the intent was. And it appears that the intent of Karla’s tweet was largely to rile the Women in Secularism people, to hassle them a little, to poke a stick into their little ant’s nest. Doesn’t seem all that commendable.

Maybe there’s some justification for criticizing the philosophy and principles behind that group, but the tweet can hardly be claimed to be doing that, and looked only like rather much of a cheap shot ….

To be fair, she could have gotten the same reaction by tweeting "Good morning, lovely weather we're having" at ophie and melody hensley.

I imagine if Mykeru tweeted them a funny cat gif, they'd shit themselves in terror.

At this point, we're trolling them just by not having the decency to all die quietly at once. When you have that many Nervous Teds all screaming like the apocalypse just happened in their pants because a leaf landed on their porch step, at some point, resisting the temptation to see if they'll jump up and down, maybe wave their arms as they scream is pretty fucking hard to resist.

Many of them do seem to have a rather remarkable tendency to hysteria and histrionics, at least some of which looks rather self-indulgent and self-serving.

However, it also seems quite clear – in spite of the efforts of many “feminists” to deny the possibility – that there are very significant behavioural differences – emotional responses such as crying and hysteria, for examples – between the sexes that have their roots in genetics. Apropos of which, you might be interested in this comment from Damion on Ally Fogg’s blog:

Right now the studies on adult crying are far from painting a complete picture, and that is rather unfortunate. I am making the case here merely that we ought to take the possibility of hormonal drivers more seriously. That said, here is some suggestive anecdotal evidence on point from transmen such as Griffin Hansbury:

Alex Blumberg
How about in the way you feel things and in the way you perceive of your feelings? Is there any change there?

Griffin Hansbury
I have a hard time crying. Before testosterone, it was great if I was frustrated or angry or sad, have a good cry. You’d feel better afterwards. And I do wonder if there isn’t a chemical component behind it because I now have a hard time doing it. And it’s very frustrating.

What I will do is when I feel that pressure build up, I’ll go into my room. I will close the door and force myself. I have to force myself to cry. And the quality of the crying is different than the quality of the crying was before T. It’s very dry. I find myself moaning and sobbing, but with very little tears.

Alex Blumberg
You’ve answered a lot of questions for us today. You reinforced a lot of stereotypes that we’ve almost dispelled with.

you forgot to reference Pinker.

[d4m10n]

Bwahahahaha!

But seriously, the feminists are going to get around to hating on Pinker as soon as one of them reads all the way through Better Angels. Greta could write a whole book on why just one of those chapters is wrong, if only she had the time.

[Skep tickle]

Has Karla turned up here to explain herself yet?
I'm wondering why she didn't just say: "Yes, I tweeted Shirley Phelps. So fucking what. It was a joke!"

By Ophelias definition of harrassment(tweeting @ someone you don't know), Karla was actually harrassing Phelps!

What's making it worse for Karla is the sort of lame excuses that Justin is making, suggesting that Karla was just enquiring if Shirley Phelps was going to attend as a conference attendee rather than as a wacky protester.

Storm, teacup, who cares ... honestly ... this is what you define as "Not-News"

I'm in the "meh who cares" camp. Wouldn't it be a special treat to have WBC protest your secularism event in DC? You could bring the whole conference crowd out to have a photo taken with the handful of WBC'ers, for laughs.

Now, if Karla had tweetvited someone who might have really posed a threat - like Sara Mayhew, Renee Hendricks, GWW, or one of the characters on one of those TV shows that triggers A+ forum members - that would have been a different matter. :roll:

[BarnOwl]

This one is funny too:

by Zeitgueist » Tue May 07, 2013 5:46 pm
Seems better off asking what shows are NOT problematic. I'm hard pressed to find one.

Yes, when you can find racism on a slice of toast and misogyny in a rain cloud I suppose it's very hard to find a TV show which doesn't have you BAAAAWing your eyes out. Maybe switch the fucking telly off if you don't like it? Just a thought you moronic cunt.

Switching the TV off was my first thought as well.

But no, they prefer to find "propaganda for exploitative capitalism" in How It's Made. They also lament the absence of kindly Mr. Rogers, who would certainly interview the wonderful people who make the things that make How It's Made possible. Tragically, though, the show only features uncaring objects and machines, the product and producers of the vast patriarchal capitalist military-industrial complex.

I really can't afford to fracture another nasal concha while laughing at this inane shit.

[BarnOwl]

Still on the TV topic: Has anyone else considered the possibility that the Atheism+ forums may simply be a storyboard for an extended episode of Portlandia?

[Metalogic42]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... =25#p81425

What. The. Fuck.

[demystifier]

Thank you for that public service! :lol:

It really is amazing to watch that forum slowly but very steadily descend into a massive, dysfunctional A+ style black hole. Peezus must be so proud.

You are 100% welcome =)

The craziest thing to me is how people like doubtthat (at least in the example of this thread) have the patience to try so hard to accommodate the dysfunction around them and get absolutely shit-hammered for it! You don't just have to generally agree, you have to agree in 100% the right way or fuck you, shitheel! Who the hell has the emotional stamina to endure that?

[Skep tickle]

OK, I tried the previous Jamy Ian Swiss video but the audio was terrible.
I've tried to fix it by boosting the levels on both channels and have now reuploaded the talk.

[youtube]wbE5Kub3b5k[/youtube]

Thanks for fixing that. At the very start, the announcer refers back to PZ's just-completed talk as having been about evolution awareness or education (so, apparently not about Atheism+). AFter that, I listened from ~26:00 on; I hear no specific mention of PZ. Was there something before then that I missed, something specific about PZ?

In JIS's talk, JIS gives his opinion, phrasing it strongly at times, gives a quite similar talk as at TAM 2012 but updated to reflect more of "the schism" (without referring to either directly; the closest he comes is to say the A/S movements shouldn't form into a circular firing squad). I do NOT hear him "calling out" PZ specifically, though, sure, if you have your "I'm a major leader of the Atheism+ movement" hat on you might certainly pick up on skeptical evaluation of your movement in JIS's talk.

First thing that caught my ear was JIS saying (~30:00 I think) that "atheists are people who quite simply don't believe in god". Oooh, them's fighting words where PZ is concerned.

Watching with an eye to what might have set PZ off beyond that, I'm thinking it's a combination of (around 36:25 on) "Never explain by malice what could be explained by stupidity" & expansion of that including further mentions of what JIS finds stupid; then much of 42:30 to 51:00 to the end ("Nobody needs to redefine" the movement; Venn diagram of atheists/skeptics/humanists; "a skeptic who's a believer is probably doing more to make the world a better place than an atheist who is not a skeptic; "allowing for differences of belief is how you promote diversity"; and other comments on welcoming differences in "values" issues).

I lol'd at JIS's prediction at ~53:00 that some would disagree, and (almost under his voice) that that would become apparent on the blogs the next day.